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tlongII
03-19-2010, 10:44 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/18/ireland.abuse.fallout/index.html?hpt=C1

Child abuse scandal shatters Irish faith in Catholic Church


Dublin, Ireland (CNN) -- John Kelly was 14 years old when, he says, he lost his faith in God.

"I was taken down these stairs. I only had a nightdress on. It was pulled over my head. I was left naked. This 6-foot, 4-inch [tall] religious brother stood on my hands... and another guy had a whip that we made ourselves, with coins in it. And he would run from a distance to flog me," Kelly remembers.

Kelly, now 59, spent much of his childhood living in institutions run by Catholic orders in Ireland. The abuse he remembers most vividly took place at a reformatory in Daingean, in central Ireland.

"It was a very significant night for me," he says. "I'd been raped and buggered previously by these religious brothers, and I'd been physically beaten and psychologically tortured for months -- I spent two years in the place."

But Kelly reached a breaking point as one Catholic brother held him down, another whipped him and two others looked on, he says.

"I begged God to take me away. I just wanted to die to get away from the pain. And God wasn't there for me," he says.

Kelly's "crime" that night, he says, was to have been named by another boy at the reformatory, falsely, as an accomplice in a plot to escape.

But Kelly did manage to escape from Daingean soon after, and spent more than 30 years in London before returning to Ireland. Now he is campaigning on behalf of victims of child abuse.

Those victims number in the thousands -- possibly tens of thousands -- three major investigations in the past five years suggest.

The most recent, the Murphy Report, found the Archdiocese of Dublin and other Catholic Church authorities in Ireland covered up child abuse by priests from 1975 to 2004. Child sexual abuse was widespread then, the report found.

Liam McGlynn, a retired public official, thinks that it was no accident that so many child abusers found their way into the priesthood in Ireland.

The prevalence of the problem, he says, suggests that there were "people who were aware that the best place to abuse children was under the cover of the church. What better cover could you hope for?"

He emphasizes that that's only his personal opinion, but he observes that an entire generation has been turned off by the scandal.

"Virtually no young people go to church. The main churchgoers would be my generation, still, and older," says McGlynn, who is 57. "The church has lost an entire generation."

"I haven't been to church for quite some time. My faith has been seriously damaged," he adds.

He's part of a much broader trend, says Patsy McGarry, religious affairs correspondent for the Irish Times newspaper.

More than 90 percent of Irish people attended mass at least once a week in the 1970s. Today the figure is about half that, he says.

"The church has lost working-class urban Ireland," he says.

The faithful were shocked and disgusted to learn that Irish bishops had covered up abuse in the name of protecting the church and its priests, he says.

For loyal Catholics, the most disappointing revelation, McGarry says, was "to have it exposed that bishops behaved in contravention of canon [church] law -- as was the case -- in contravention of civil law -- as was the case -- but also, and above all, in contravention of moral law. It blew them out of the water."

He saw proof of the change in attitude towards the Catholic Church just this week, he says, when he went to a St. Patrick's Day parade in his hometown in rural Ireland.

"There were two bishops, a retired one and his successor, and there was none of the deference [shown to them] that would have been there when I was growing up in that same small town. Deference to bishops has practically disappeared in Ireland," he says.

That's a very fundamental shift, he observes.

Once, bishops "had a unique status in Ireland, far higher than any government minister," McGarry says.

"The bishop was a supreme being. ... He had an unequaled and unchallenged status in Ireland," he says.

"It'll be quite some time" before the church regains its moral authority in Ireland, McGarry predicts. "I mean, this is a deeply damaged institution because its behavior has been exposed as immoral."

But the church will survive in some form, he says.

"If you're asking me, is this the end of Roman Catholicism in Ireland, it is not. What it is, is the end of a form of the Roman Catholic Church we've had in Ireland for about 150 years," he says.

From now on, the church will need to involve more women and more lay people, as opposed to clergy, in running its affairs, both as a response to the crisis and as a simple matter of demographics, given that a generation has turned its back on the church, McGarry says.

Pope Benedict XVI is due to intervene in the crisis within days.

He is expected to release his official statement on the abuse scandal Saturday, in the form of a pastoral letter to the Irish faithful.

Abuse victim John Kelly says the statement will need to be far-reaching indeed to satisfy him.

"We need him to say that he will get rid of all bishops and cardinals who were involved in the cover-up of the abuse of children and start again," he says.

"If it means all the bishops and cardinals have to go from Ireland, so be it," he says. "Ireland would be a better place for it, and the church would certainly be a better place for it."

JoeChalupa
03-19-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm sure you have many other reasons as well. I'm not a fan of child abuse either.

leemajors
03-19-2010, 11:01 AM
Catholics are the only child molesters among clergymen.

IronMexican
03-19-2010, 11:03 AM
The worst part about having a catholic family is not eating meat today.

Thunder Dan
03-19-2010, 11:05 AM
my family is very religious. I'm not. I tend to see religion for weak minded people who need answers for everything. Though, my views could change, but that is how I feel now.

Dr. Gonzo
03-19-2010, 11:09 AM
I did my confirmation in the Catholic Church so technically I'm Catholic but I don't believe in any of the crap they believe in. I believe birth control should be used, I believe abortion should be legal and performed whenever the woman wants and I also don't believe Mary gave birth as a virgin.

Thunder Dan
03-19-2010, 11:12 AM
I did my confirmation in the Catholic Church so technically I'm Catholic but I don't believe in any of the crap they believe in. I believe birth control should be used, I believe abortion should be legal and performed whenever the woman wants and I also don't believe Mary gave birth as a virgin.

I think it's bullshit that they confirm kids into the church. I was confirmed just because my mom wanted me to go. I hated those classes and didn't learn anything.

I think there should be a minimum age for that stuff. It seems like such a scam. They try to reel you in at a young age to keep you. Just like cigarette companies.

xXx
03-19-2010, 11:13 AM
for me it's the sit down, stand up, down on your knees, now sit down again, stand up, here come get your little cracker and grape juice...okay now we need your cash...body of christ ain't free yall...

J.T.
03-19-2010, 11:14 AM
The worst part about having a catholic family is not eating meat today.

So its okay for yall to suck dick the other 364 days out of the year?

Thunder Dan
03-19-2010, 11:14 AM
So its okay for yall to suck dick the other 364 days out of the year?

cock is like fish, not considered meat

Dr. Gonzo
03-19-2010, 11:16 AM
I think it's bullshit that they confirm kids into the church. I was confirmed just because my mom wanted me to go. I hated those classes and didn't learn anything.

I think there should be a minimum age for that stuff. It seems like such a scam. They try to reel you in at a young age to keep you. Just like cigarette companies.

I was confirmed because my grandmother wanted it and my dad made me. I wasn't allowed in the classes after the first two because I would ask too many questions and they considered that a distraction. I had to sit outside the class and the priest, who was a crazy Irish man, would come tell me how I was going to spend an eternity in purgatory for questioning things. I thought it was bullshit but I went through with it because I had a cool party afterward.

IronMexican
03-19-2010, 11:16 AM
I did my confirmation in the Catholic Church so technically I'm Catholic but I don't believe in any of the crap they believe in. I believe birth control should be used, I believe abortion should be legal and performed whenever the woman wants and I also don't believe Mary gave birth as a virgin.

:tu


I did the confirmation thing. That's about the time I realized absolutely none of this shit makes sense. I guess I did learn something. And I got 500 bucks.

Thunder Dan
03-19-2010, 11:19 AM
I think it's crazy that there is this book of crazy stories about walking on water, and a virgin gave birth to a baby, and a guy rose from the dead, among other things....but when you point out that none of that makes sense it make you crazy

Viva Las Espuelas
03-19-2010, 11:32 AM
Yeah. I was "confirmed" to shut my family up. Yes, person that dies if someone shot you in the face, deem me "confirmed".

On that note, I'm having a big greazy cheeseburger for lunch. Mmmmmm
medium rare.

J.T.
03-19-2010, 11:35 AM
I think it's crazy that there is this book of crazy stories about walking on water, and a virgin gave birth to a baby, and a guy rose from the dead, among other things....but when you point out that none of that makes sense it make you crazy

the bible lost me when instead of slapping her in the face and saying wheres my dinner, adam just did what eve told him

Whisky Dog
03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
Organized religion has been the most effective form of mind control for thousands of years. I believe in God and look inward for guidance, mainly because I don't believe following these assholes is the path to God. Or any protestant, Muslim, or other organized religion.

Whisky Dog
03-19-2010, 11:51 AM
I've often wondered if I wrote a doctrine and convinced enough people to believe it if 1000 years from now people would view me as a God. Then I wondered if some greedy, power hungry fear mongers in power thousands of years ago did this exact thing.

boutons_deux
03-19-2010, 11:52 AM
Abuse coverups from the time Il Papa was are now exploding in Germany and getting close to implicating Il Papa in the coverups.

Viva Las Espuelas
03-19-2010, 12:20 PM
Papa Nazi