How many NBA championships does Manu win without Duncan?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Poll coming discuss.

[badfish22]

:lol

[TIMMYD!]

Tough choice. Bullshit poll.

[badfish22]

Manu was a great supporting player, but in no way was he a franchise guy. Couldnt lead a team deep into the playoffs.

cue DAF saying "HE WON N DE OLIMPACS!"

[Dex]

http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/files/2009/10/ackbar.jpg

[21_Blessings]

At least Manu won an Olympic Gold medal. Unlike Tim Duncan.

:)

[sonic21]

He's overrated by some Spurs fans and underrated by other NBA fans.

To answer the question: 3

[diego]

without duncan, manu would win more than or equal to the amount of championships won by the phoenix suns franchise from 1968 (inception) till 2025.

now for a harder question:
how many MVPs, ROYs, COYs, ALL NBAers do the phoenix suns need on the same team to win a ring? I say 1 MVP, 1 COY, 3 all nba and another 2-3 all stars at minimum

[BlackSwordsMan]

How many rings would dirk win with manu

[badfish22]

How many rings would dirk win with manu

Give Dirk Duncans supporting cast (including coach) and he is not ringless, thats for sure. But lets not make this thread about Dirk.

I'm surprised ""I love Nazis" isn't winning. Must be a rally going on right now or something.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How many rings would dirk win with manu


To clarify: Manufan bugs me, I have respect for Manu as a player. Lets say they have a healthy Manu instead of Josh Howard in 2006 and the Mavs probably win the finals.

[JJ Hickson]

:lol @ homer spur fans who think Manu could ever carry a team. Obvious answer is zero.

[FkLA]

Hey OP how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?


Give Dirk Duncans supporting cast (including coach) and he is not ringless, thats for sure. But lets not make this thread about Dirk.

I'm surprised ""I love Nazis" isn't winning. Must be a rally going on right now or something.

Youre a fucking moron, are you now basically putting Dirk on the same pedestal as a prime Tim Duncan? Do you even realize how the Spurs system operated, especially before Manu and Tony developed into all-stars. The offense consisted of throwing the ball down low into Tim and letting him go to work or if the double/triple team collapsed throw it out to the numerous shooters that came through San Antonio. Kind of hard to do that when your girl Dirk plays out on the perimeter. The defense was anchored by Tim Duncan. Kind of hard have a guy who at best is an average defender anchor the best defense in the NBA throughout practically the entire decade.

Dirk would be ringless even with the Spurs cast. Even if he miraculously developed the best low post game in the league and become the best defensive anchor in the league like Timmy, his destiny of being a choker would probably get in the way and keep him ringless.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dirk can carry a team to the NBA finals, something Manu has never been able to do.

[JJ Hickson]

Tim Duncan- hall of famer

Dirk Nowitzki - hall of famer

Manu Ginobili - not a hall of famer

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Hey OP how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?



1) None
2) If that was an attempt to compare Manu Ginobili to Scottie Pippen you should kill yourself

[FkLA]

Dirk can carry a team to the NBA finals, something Manu has never been able to do.

Manu has carried a team with some talent but not the most talented, to the top as an alpha dog. Dirk hasnt. Also how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?


cue DAF saying "HE WON N DE OLIMPACS!"

sorry, but are the olympics not basketball? do they not count for some reason?


1) None
2) If that was an attempt to compare Manu Ginobili to Scottie Pippen you should kill yourself

it was a way to show how retarded your logic is...the fact that Manu played alongside the greatest PF ever does not diminish his ability. nor does it determine that he was not capable of being an alpha dog, esp given what his team did in the 04' olympics.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Manu has carried a team with some talent but not the most talented, to the top as an alpha dog. Dirk hasnt. Also how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?



sorry, but are the olympics not basketball? do they not count for some reason?


NBA basketball is in a league of its own, stop harping on the Olympics. Do you seriously think Manu can carry a team to the NBA finals as the alpha dog, yes or no? It's a simple question.

[redzero]

Tim Duncan- hall of famer

Dirk Nowitzki - hall of famer

Manu Ginobili - not a hall of famer

How many little league championships does Dirk have? I thought so.

[FkLA]

NBA basketball is in a league of its own, stop harping on the Olympics. Do you seriously think Manu can carry a team to the NBA finals as the alpha dog, yes or no? It's a simple question.

weak ass, trying to diminish the olympics...theyre a legit competition full of NBA and NBA-caliber players. add in the whole emotion of playing for your country that goes for it and it isnt just some throw away competition.

would he take dirk's 06 team to the finals? of course not that team was built around dirk specifically. if you build a team around him though, with a solid low post prescence and the right pieces to surround that they'd be sucessful no doubt and at the very least a tough playoff team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the fact that Manu played alongside the greatest PF ever does not diminish his ability. nor does it determine that he was not capable of being an alpha dog, esp given what his team did in the 04' olympics.


So you're saying someone with a career average of 14.8 points per game who has made 1 all star game and has a grand total of 1 3rd all NBA team honors and no 2nd or 1st all NBA team honors is capable of being the alpha dog on a championship team, and you're calling my logic flawed?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

weak ass, trying to diminish the olympics...theyre a legit competition full of NBA and NBA-caliber players. add in the whole emotion of playing for your country that goes for it and it isnt just some throw away competition.

would he take dirk's 06 team to the finals? of course not that team was built around dirk specifically. if you build a team around him though, with a solid low post prescence and the right pieces to surround that they'd be sucessful no doubt and at the very least a tough playoff team.


Answer my fuckin question. Could Manu Ginobili be the alpha dog on an NBA team that makes the NBA finals. Why is it so hard to answer the question?

[Darrin]

We 11 Nazis on the board.

[Muser]

Manu is a great 2nd/3rd option. Deadly in the clutch. Alpha Dog? Nope.

[Xylus]

Manu is a great 2nd/3rd option. Deadly in the clutch. Alpha Dog? Nope.

Exactly.

Regardless, I still love Nazis.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

We got ourselves a bunch o' Natzi lovin sumbitches in here. Don't worry, the Basterds and I will sniff you sauerkraut sandwich eatin fucks out and give you a little somethin you can't take off.

[FkLA]

Answer my fuckin question. Could Manu Ginobili be the alpha dog on an NBA team that makes the NBA finals. Why is it so hard to answer the question?

If I had to bet on it Id say no, but the answer lies somewhere in between NBA Finals and no playoffs like you morons suggest. A prime Manu Ginobili with a solid post presence and surrounded with the right pieces would be at the very least a tough playoff team. And again why are you trying to diminsh Olympic basketball? Is it because it basically crushes your argument?

[Xylus]

I'll tell you one thing. I'd swap Barbosa + JRich for Ginobili annnnnnnyday of the fucking week.

[FkLA]

Manu is a great 2nd/3rd option. Deadly in the clutch. Alpha Dog? Nope.

A prime Manu Ginobili was arguably the second best SG in the NBA. Are you guys suggesting that is not alpha dog quality? The best player in the Olympics and the leader of the gold medal team isnt alpha dog quality? Look Im not saying he's Tim or Shaq or Kobe...a franchise with him as the centerpiece likely wouldnt win titles. But it'd be competitive playoff team, thats all. A prime Manu was more than capable of being an alpha dog.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If I had to bet on it Id say no, but the answer lies somewhere in between NBA Finals and no playoffs like you morons suggest. A prime Manu Ginobili with a solid post presence and surrounded with the right pieces would be at the very least a tough playoff team. And again why are you trying to diminsh Olympic basketball? Is it because it basically crushes your argument?


No it doesn't really. My argument is that Manu Ginobili is at best an NBA sidekick and that Dirk is a way better NBA player. If Manu's fan club wants to circle jerk to everything he did in the minor leagues then have fun. I could care less about Olympic ball and Manu being able to beat an American team with terrible chemistry and a bunch of players who had their own agenda. Either way, you just admitted that Manu can't carry an NBA team as far as Dirk can.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'll tell you one thing. I'd swap Barbosa + JRich for Ginobili annnnnnnyday of the fucking week.


So would I.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

A prime Manu Ginobili was arguably the second best SG in the NBA.


Manu was never the 2nd best shooting guard in the NBA, hence why he's never been better than 3rd all NBA.

[FkLA]

No it doesn't really. My argument is that Manu Ginobili is at best an NBA sidekick and that Dirk is a way better NBA player. If Manu's fan club wants to circle jerk to everything he did in the minor leagues then have fun. I could care less about Olympic ball and Manu being able to beat an American team with terrible chemistry and a bunch of players who had their own agenda. Either way, you just admitted that Manu can't carry an NBA team as far as Dirk can.

Dirk is a better player sure, I said that like two days ago since this argument started. It is by a smaller margin than you and Dirk cock slobbers make it seem though.

But anyways Im arguing against the fact that Manu wouldnt be capable of being an alpha dog and that he's just a sidekick. Again the fact that he played with the greatest PF of all-time doesnt diminish his ability. In his prime he was more than capable of being an alpha dog for a respectable playoff team, although not necessarily a championship team. Which is basically slightly less than what Dirk has been able to do.


Manu was never the 2nd best shooting guard in the NBA, hence why he's never been better than 3rd all NBA.

Yeah because obviously all-nba and all-defensive teams are the tell all...

But lets play along, your saying the third best SG in the league wasnt capable of being the centerpiece of a franchise?

[badfish22]

Dirk is a better player sure, I said that like two days ago since this argument started. It is by a smaller margin than you and Dirk cock slobbers make it seem though.


:lmao at you calling US the cock slobbers. Why would suns fans/hawk fan/Laker fans/other spur fans be Dirk cock slobbers? you sound like a fucking retard.

[badfish22]

But lets play along, your saying the third best SG in the league wasnt capable of being the centerpiece of a franchise?

No, a guy who " averaged 14.8 points per game who has made 1 all star game and has a grand total of 1 3rd all NBA team honors" could not be a centerpiece for a franchise.

I don't think you are grasping how hard it is to be a centerpiece for a team. Teams game plan is focused all around that player, instead of Duncan and Parker.

[FkLA]

:lmao at you calling US the cock slobbers. Why would suns fans/hawk fan/Laker fans/other spur fans be Dirk cock slobbers? you sound like a fucking retard.

You guys put him on this pedestal that he simply doesnt warrant, again he's the better player Ive conceded that much. Its just not by as wide of a margin as you Dirk lover make it seem. The fact that he played alongside the greatest PF of all time doesnt change that. LOL:


Give Dirk Duncans supporting cast (including coach) and he is not ringless, thats for sure. But lets not make this thread about Dirk.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But lets play along, your saying the third best SG in the league wasnt capable of being the centerpiece of a franchise?


Not the centerpiece of a successful franchise. No. He could be the centerpiece of a good little 45-50 win team if that's some sort of major achievement.

[badfish22]

You guys put him on this pedestal that he simply doesnt warrant, again he's the better player Ive conceded that much. Its just not by as wide of a margin as you Dirk lover make it seem. The fact that he played alongside the greatest PF of all time doesnt change that. LOL:

Crofl. You're still trying to make us seem like the Dirk lovers, instead of you just being a massive Manu homer. But keep circle jerking to Manu with your pal DAF.

And I don't see want you're lolling at. Duncans supporting cast was a ton better than Dirks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't think you are grasping how hard it is to be a centerpiece for a team. Teams game plan is focused all around that player, instead of Duncan and Parker.


Manufan really struggles with this concept. They completely discount the fact Duncan takes tons of attention away from other players on offense. Different story if he had to deal with teams coming up with an elaborate defensive game plan for him every game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I personally don't put Dirk in the same category as Duncan, but Manu isn't anywhere near either one.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I guess the people who vote on NBA awards and honors are "Dirk cock gobblers" since they clearly think Dirk is the superior player by a long shot.

[FkLA]

No, a guy who " averaged 14.8 points per game who has made 1 all star game and has a grand total of 1 3rd all NBA team honors" could not be a centerpiece for a franchise.

I don't think you are grasping how hard it is to be a centerpiece for a team. Teams game plan is focused all around that player, instead of Duncan and Parker.

Oh you mean the same guy that was coming off the bench for the betterment of the team and playing under 30 mpg...sharing touches with that same PF whose "coattails he rode" and one of the best scoring PGs? Seriously you faggots cant have it both ways, you cant on one hand say he had a solid supporting cast with the best PF ever and than on the other hand expect his stats to measure up to someone that actually was a centerpiece and getting the most touches on a team.

Either way that same guy who only averaged 14 ppg and has one all-star appearance, and who was a sixth man...turned into an absolute beast in the playoffs. Prompting not just "manufan" to call him one of the best SGs in the league but practically the entire country irregardless of him not having all-nba or all-star honors.

[badfish22]

I personally don't put Dirk in the same category as Duncan

Don't get me wrong, either do I. I just think Dirk would have won at least one ring, if he had Duncans supporting cast.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Either way that same guy who only averaged 14 ppg and has one all-star appearance, and who was a sixth man...turned into an absolute beast in the playoffs. Prompting not just "manufan" to call him one of the best SGs in the league but practically the entire country.


He had one noteworthy playoff year (04-05), other than that, he's been solid but nothing special. No one besides Spurfan considers Manu to be this deadly playoff machine.

[FkLA]

Not the centerpiece of a successful franchise. No. He could be the centerpiece of a good little 45-50 win team if that's some sort of major achievement.

Or in other words a respectable playoff team like Ive been saying all along. Which sure isnt some great accomplishment but at the same time isnt astronomically less than what Dirk has been able to accomplish. Thanks for playing.


Don't get me wrong, either do I. I just think Dirk would have won at least one ring, if he had Duncans supporting cast.

Did you even read my other post. Do you have any idea how much the Spurs depended on Duncan's low post game to draw double/triple teams (low post game that Dirk doesnt have). And how much they depended on him as the anchor of the defense (something Dirk is incapable of doing). He would be ringless even if he played for the Spurs (god forbid), FACT. Get off his dick.


He had one noteworthy playoff year (04-05), other than that, he's been solid but nothing special. No one besides Spurfan considers Manu to be this deadly playoff machine.

That was his best year but certainly not his only great year. Manufan wasnt the only one proclaiming him to be one of the best SG in the entire league, irregardless of his lack of all-nba or all-star honors.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Being the "centerpiece" of a 45-50 win team is something tons of guys have done. None of them have ever won MVP doing it. Congrats to Manu Ginobili, he can accomplish as much as Michael Redd as the alpha dog.

[badfish22]

Did you even read my other post. Do you have any idea how much the Spurs depended on Duncan's low post game to draw double/triple teams (low post game that Dirk doesnt have). And how much they depended on him as the anchor of the defense (something Dirk is incapable of doing). He would be ringless even if he played for the Spurs (god forbid), FACT. Get off his dick.

No he wouldn't. Dirk draws a ton of double teams as well, just not as deep in the post. They could have changed their system up a tiny bit, don't you think. Tony Parker plays a game similar to Harris, just a lot better. Manu is the streaking shooter and dive cutter, which like Howards game but 10x better. Of course, Manu also handles the ball better than Howard ever could but thats besides the point. Don't even try to compare Avery with Coach Pop. Popovich would have found a way to make it work. Thinking the difference between Dirk and Duncan alone is 4 rings is crazy. Get off Manus and Duncans dick.

[badfish22]

Congrats to Manu Ginobili, he can accomplish as much as Michael Redd as the alpha dog.

Thats probably what Manu would be as an alpha dog. If Redd was able to play off Duncan and Parker, he would look really good too. And Spurfan would be sitting here saying "Man, I bet Redd would be a great franchise centerpiece. Redd>Dirk!"

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

IMO Dirk wouldn't win with Duncan's supporting cast, it wouldn't be a good fit.

[badfish22]

IMO Dirk wouldn't win with Duncan's supporting cast, it wouldn't be a good fit.

Maybe. But I think they would have found a way to make it work. Dirk+Manu+Parker as a core is a lot of talent to never win one ring. More talent than Dirk has ever gotten. This 09-10 mav team is the best team Dirk has been on, not only according to me, but according to many basketball analyst and Dirk himself.

[FkLA]

Being the "centerpiece" of a 45-50 win team is something tons of guys have done. None of them have ever won MVP doing it. Congrats to Manu Ginobili, he can accomplish as much as Michael Redd as the alpha dog.

Well apparently just a few hours ago Manu Ginobili couldnt even do that and was nothing but a replaceable fragile sidekick who rode Duncan's coattails, so glad that some progress has been made.

Also is being the centerpiece of a respectable playoff team astronomically worse than being the centerpiece of respectable playoff team who elevated to title contender for like 2 yrs? Thats basically what you and the Dirk cock slobbers are saying.


No he wouldn't. Dirk draws a ton of double teams as well, just not as deep in the post. They could have changed their system up a tiny bit, don't you think. Tony Parker plays a game similar to Harris, just a lot better. Manu is the streaking shooter and dive cutter, which like Howards game but 10x better. Of course, Manu also handles the ball better than Howard ever could but thats besides the point. Don't even try to compare Avery with Coach Pop. Popovich would have found a way to make it work. Thinking the difference between Dirk and Duncan alone is 4 rings is crazy. Get off Manus and Duncans dick.

Ok nevermind the fact shooters like Brent Barry, Mike Finely, Stephen Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu, Roger Mason, Bruce Bowen, etc wouldnt benefit from double teams from a guy who plays farther out in the same way that they benefit from a guy who plays deep in the post. Lets just ignore that and assume offensively it works...what about on defense? You telling me Dirk would be capable of anchoring what was the best defense in the league throughout practically the entire decade?

And Manufan is the one doing the overrating right :lol

[boston.balla]

I'm willing to put money on the following thing: if you swap kobe now with a prime manu the lakers at least three peat.

Now if you have problems with comprehending this argument then you should look this thread :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148353

Being alpha dog doesn't mean to put 30 ppg or grab 15rpg or 20apg, it means being the first option and playing to win not to get stats recognition hoes money or any other shit 99% of the fucking league plays for. Because we are on spurstalk people should find the comparision with timmy absolutely evident. If you get stats like timmy it okay, if you get stats like bill russell that okay too (that rpg would be alot less nowadays but the leadership would be the same).

Being able to win an olympic medal is not an easy thing as a trained, 3 year gelled, uber stacked redeem team saw it in the 2008 beijing final. Now imagine that argentina got it in 2004, just 4 years earlier .. same era, almost the same competition, a much much weaker us squad. So you can't say shit about it.

Now winning an nba ring is something different cause of one thing called endurance and resistance to wear and tear. Manu had a relatively short prime in the nba but that does not mean he could not lead a team for 2-3 seasons playing 35mpg which would be enough for him to have alpha dog impact.

People nowadays don't know shit about leadership. It's not about media/stats/etc it's about having the mentality to do what ever it takes to win it all even if that means cutting your stats(tell that to kobe LOL).

As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.

So to answer the question: with a good supporting cast minimum one ring.

To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?

And the answer the the previous question is absolutely obvious cause manu never chocked and if he lost he did it giving his best - that's what leadership means.

Have fun replying crap to this :lol

[MavDynasty]

:lmao at you calling US the cock slobbers. Why would suns fans/hawk fan*/Laker fans/other spur fans be Dirk cock slobbers? you sound like a fucking retard.

during the 06-07 season red hawk 21 name was " The Nba is rigged" and he was a "mavericks" fan. later on he said he switched back to the hawks because they were good again and the mavs were his secondary team

it was something along those lines lol

[FkLA]

I'm willing to put money on the following thing: if you swap kobe now with a prime manu the lakers at least three peat.

Now if you have problems with comprehending this argument then you should look this thread :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148353

Being alpha dog doesn't mean to put 30 ppg or grab 15rpg or 20apg, it means being the first option and playing to win not to get stats recognition hoes money or any other shit 99% of the fucking league plays for. Because we are on spurstalk people should find the comparision with timmy absolutely evident. If you get stats like timmy it okay, if you get stats like bill russell that okay too (that rpg would be alot less nowadays but the leadership would be the same).

Being able to win an olympic medal is not an easy thing as a trained, 3 year gelled, uber stacked redeem team saw it in the 2008 beijing final. Now imagine that argentina got it in 2004, just 4 years earlier .. same era, almost the same competition, a much much weaker us squad. So you can't say shit about it.

Now winning an nba ring is something different cause of one thing called endurance and resistance to wear and tear. Manu had a relatively short prime in the nba but that does not mean he could not lead a team for 2-3 seasons playing 35mpg which would be enough for him to have alpha dog impact.

People nowadays don't know shit about leadership. It's not about media/stats/etc it's about having the mentality to do what ever it takes to win it all even if that means cutting your stats(tell that to kobe LOL).

As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.

So to answer the question: with a good supporting cast minimum one ring.

To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?

And the answer the the previous question is absolutely obvious cause manu never chocked and if he lost he did it giving his best - that's what leadership means.

Have fun replying crap to this :lol

+1

On everything except the winning a title thing, I wouldnt bet on that although I wouldnt have bet on Argentina winning gold in 04' either and look how that turned out. Seriously though people like to pull out the recycled joke and mock the fact that "Manu is just a winner" but plain and simply put thats the damn truth. Anyone that doesnt see that he has a drive to win that 99.9% of all basketball players dont have is a moron. His sucess in various competitions along with simply watching the way he plays and his killer instinct in the clutch and in pressure filled situations clearly show that.

Also regarding his prime he came into the league at like age 26, so I think if he wouldve came in younger...spent a couple of years to adjust than his prime wouldve been extended by a couple years.

[Pero]

To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?


If he was there instead of Dirk? Yes.
If he was there next to Dirk instead of anyone else on the Mavs? No.

I love Manu, think he's a great player, but in the NBA I wouldn't take him over Dirk unless I already had a great PF/C on my team.

[AnthonyM]

I love Nazis.

Thanks for playing.

[spursfan09]

How many ships does duncan win without Manu? I say they don't win in 05 without Manu's awesomeness. Good poll.

[spursfan09]

This is a good thread to remind me of the greatness of Tim Duncan. There's MJ, TD, Kobe, Shaq etc. level...Then there is everybody else.

[Bukefal]

Manu is a great player and had so much success in his career. I will probably get a whole wave of criticism and hate for saying this by some spurs fans but Manu is overrated. By Spurs fans, but also by others.

Don't get me wrong, im not saying he isnt a great player, because he is But there are so many who have sunglasses on when its about manu, it's like he is god. He is very popular among spurs fans, that has to do with it, some maybe get carried away because of that. He is great, but not that great how many make him.

And no, I don't hate him, nor am I French.

[WESTACKED]

He's overrated by some Spurs fans and underrated by other NBA fans.

To answer the question: 3
You didn't notice what the title wrote or just ignored what it said? Manu has won ZERO fucking ring without Duncan and his international achievements would have also been mirages had he not got so many quality teammates like Nocioni, Obertan, Delfino, and of course Luís Scola. get some basic reading abilities and re-read the thread title you misread, you dumb piece of vintage sediment.

[DAF86]

As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.

That's exactly my point. I never said that Manu had a better career in the NBA than Dirk. Dirk's NBA career is HoF worthy, Manu isn't. I know that, every sane person knows that. What I've always said is that IMO Manu at his prime was slightly better than Dirk at his. It's just an opinion and I know there's no way to prove it, but I really feel that way and I've no problem with people not agreeing with me but I think they're highly mistaken when they say that Manu at his prime isn't even close to Dirk's level.

[TD 21]

Hey OP how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?



Youre a fucking moron, are you now basically putting Dirk on the same pedestal as a prime Tim Duncan? Do you even realize how the Spurs system operated, especially before Manu and Tony developed into all-stars. The offense consisted of throwing the ball down low into Tim and letting him go to work or if the double/triple team collapsed throw it out to the numerous shooters that came through San Antonio. Kind of hard to do that when your girl Dirk plays out on the perimeter. The defense was anchored by Tim Duncan. Kind of hard have a guy who at best is an average defender anchor the best defense in the NBA throughout practically the entire decade.

Dirk would be ringless even with the Spurs cast. Even if he miraculously developed the best low post game in the league and become the best defensive anchor in the league like Timmy, his destiny of being a choker would probably get in the way and keep him ringless.

Excellent post. I'm sick and tired of people pulling the "Duncan's supporting case" excuse to attempt to minimize his greatness. The reality is he's never played with another all-time great in his prime (Robinson was merely All-Star caliber their first three years together, then a high level role player their final three years together), up until 04-05 didn't have a single consistent, serious perimeter threat and often had a team that wasn't among the top couple in terms of talent, which their payroll indicated, unlike the Mavs, who annually had a top three payroll and surrounded Nowitzki with big name after big name and All-Star caliber player after All-Star caliber player. There is no excuse for Nowitzki, he just never got it done in the clutch and anyone who thinks he's even in Duncan's league historically flat out doesn't know basketball. One is a dominant scorer; the other is a dominant all around player who controlled games in a variety of ways.

[badfish22]

That's exactly my point. I never said that Manu had a better career in the NBA than Dirk. Dirk's NBA career is HoF worthy, Manu isn't. I know that, every sane person knows that. What I've always said is that IMO Manu at his prime was slightly better than Dirk at his. It's just an opinion and I know there's no way to prove it, but I really feel that way and I've no problem with people not agreeing with me but I think they're highly mistaken when they say that Manu at his prime isn't even close to Dirk's level.

Dirks MVP year > Manus best year

[DAF86]

Help me out, which poll should I start?

1-How much better Manu's stats would be if he wouldn't have played his whole career in such a talented team and with a coach that overprotects his players' minutes.
2-How much better would have Manu been if he would have goten to the league at age 20/21 and wouldn't have wasted 2 years of his prime adapting as a rookie and sophomore to the NBA.
3-How many all-stars would have Manu played if he wouldn't have accepted to come off the bench?
4-Do you really thought Billups would win a championship as the alpha dog of a team?
5-Do you really thought a team full of NBA stars would have been beaten by a team that had Pepe Sanchez, Andres Nocioni, Fabricio Oberto and Ruben Wolkowiski as 4 of its starters?

[Ginobilly]

Ginobili is a real special player. You can't measure his value on just stats alone. But you can't deny the fact that Ginobili has played in the most important, championship on the line, type of games throughout his basketball career. whereas losers like Arenas/carter get millions of dollars more to basically entertain fans with their stats. Manu entertains fans by leaving his heart out on the court every time he steps on the court. It has resulted in championships across all levels of competition. And that's with and without Duncan/Parker. Coincidence or luck?? I think not!! Desire, dedication, blood, sweat and tears? Yes!

[Ginobilly]

If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.

[alchemist]

What's with this Nazi shit? Never understood it.

[DAF86]

If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.

You would be stupid not to choose Lebron.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What's with this Nazi shit? Never understood it.


Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.

[Cleveland Steamer]

how many bench players could lead a team to a championship?

[Cleveland Steamer]

yet another brilliant thread created by a brilliant poster.

[alchemist]

Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.
:huh

[DAF86]

What's with this Nazi shit? Never understood it.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2491/whats-the-true-story-on-south-american-nazis

[DAF86]

lol 21 to 22

[DPG21920]

Manu is a lock for the HOF BTW.

[Henke]

As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.



Just a couple of questions.

1)When was Manu's prime?
2)How long it lasted?

Αlso I'd like an explanation for the ''higher level of play'' shit.

How you can prove that a prime Ginobili has a ''higher level of play''?Because he won the gold medal in Athens?Or because he won 3 rings playing with one of the 10 best players in the history of NBA?

[badfish22]

What year did Manu have that was better than Dirks MVP year? Please tell me.

[Ginobilly]

You would be stupid not to choose Lebron.

True. Manu Ginobili is like the last old rusty bullet, off a 1890 smith and wesson pistol. He may not be as glamorous as kobe/Lebron bullet, but he still kills you in the end.

[AnthonyM]

Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.

And don't you forget it!

[badfish22]

If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.

:lmao I missed this.
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Andrew Bynum]

Got damn fkla is such a sack of shit.

[Fernando TD21]

4-Do you really thought Billups would win a championship as the alpha dog of a team?

I was thinking about this. The 2004 Pistons proves that you don't need superstars on your team to win a championship. I think that if you put the right pieces around Ginobili he could be the alpha dog of a championship caliber team.

[badfish22]

I was thinking about this. The 2004 Pistons proves that you don't need superstars on your team to win a championship. I think that if you put the right pieces around Ginobili he could be the alpha dog of a championship caliber team.

You're using the one exception in NBA history as the rule. Classic :wakeup

That Detroit team was one in a million. And pulled off a huge upset.

[Ginobilly]

:lmao I missed this.
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I think the only teams dirk has ever led to any type of basketball championship, has been at his local Würzburg YMCA.:lmao

[DAF86]

Just a couple of questions.

1)When was Manu's prime?
2)How long it lasted?

Αlso I'd like an explanation for the ''higher level of play'' shit.

How you can prove that a prime Ginobili has a ''higher level of play''?Because he won the gold medal in Athens?Or because he won 3 rings playing with one of the 10 best players in the history of NBA?

IMO because he has a more complete game than Nowitzki, when Manu is at his best he can score as well and efficiently as anybody, he dribles, has great court vision, makes his teamates better, is clutch, makes threes, attacks the basket, pretty much the whole package and on defense he always makes something happen, specially in the clutch (cue Mavsfans bringing up Manu's foul on dirk).

And to answer badfish, Manu's prime was from 2001 to 2005/06 I think if you put him in the position to lead a team during that time he would definitely make a good job. In the 2005 playoffs Manu was arguably the Spurs best player, if he can stay toe to toe with the best PF of all time I think he can do the same with Dirk.

[Ginobilly]

I was thinking about this. The 2004 Pistons proves that you don't need superstars on your team to win a championship. I think that if you put the right pieces around Ginobili he could be the alpha dog of a championship caliber team.

You don't think Mr. Bigshot is a superstar/star?? Look what he has done to the basketball culture of the Nuggets.

[Fernando TD21]

You're using the one exception in NBA history as the rule. Classic :wakeup

That Detroit team was one in a million. And pulled off a huge upset.
My point is: It's not an absurd to think that a championship team can be made having a player like Ginobili as the alpha dog. You just have to put the right players around him. Is it easy? Definitely not, but it's far from being impossible.



You don't think Mr. Bigshot is a superstar/star?? Look what he has done to the basketball culture of the Nuggets.
Superstar? No.

[diego]

So you're saying someone with a career average of 14.8 points per game who has made 1 all star game and has a grand total of 1 3rd all NBA team honors and no 2nd or 1st all NBA team honors is capable of being the alpha dog on a championship team, and you're calling my logic flawed?

the 04-05 suns team, how many honors and titles did it have?
If I remember correctly:
Nash MVP (1st or 2nd?)
Dantoni COY
Nash 1st team all nba
Amare 2nd team all nba
shawn marion 3 team all nba
all 3 were all stars as well
and you had a young "franchise" player in joe johnson

The best coach. The best player. And 2 bonafide sidekicks. and you got beat by...

tim duncan (last MVP was several seasons before, 1st team all NBA and all star but his career averages are statistically not particularly impressive)
pop (a former COY himself)
14.8ppg (all star that year, coaches pick)
and tony parker (neither all nor star nor finals mvp till later)
bruce mother fucking bowen (french A1 league high scorer)

so are you really going to go by "titles"?
do you think nash was better than duncan that year? how about amare for that matter, a lot of fools said he had a bigger series because he dropped big numbers but anyone who really watched knew duncan was playing with him.
that dantoni was better than pop?
that marion was more valuable than bowen (not to mention manu and tp)?

so back to my original question you ignored...
what are the stats/titles necessary to guarantee contender alpha dog status? of course you've got to say that it depends on the supporting cast.. but as the 04-05 suns show having a collection of award worthy players (and coach! :lmao) doesnt guarantee contender status vs a less condecorated team. So how many more elite players do the suns need to finally win a ring like manu?

[WESTACKED]

Help me out, which poll should I start?

1-How much better Manu's stats would be if he wouldn't have played his whole career in such a talented team and with a coach that overprotects his players' minutes.
2-How much better would have Manu been if he would have goten to the league at age 20/21 and wouldn't have wasted 2 years of his prime adapting as a rookie and sophomore to the NBA.
3-How many all-stars would have Manu played if he wouldn't have accepted to come off the bench?
4-Do you really thought Billups would win a championship as the alpha dog of a team?
5-Do you really thought a team full of NBA stars would have been beaten by a team that had Pepe Sanchez, Andres Nocioni, Fabricio Oberto and Ruben Wolkowiski as 4 of its starters?
In san antonio Manu found probably the best cradle for growth and Pop is just a great coach devious in cultivating youngsters, thence it would have taken him more years or never to establish himself as a star in NBA if he had joined another team tutored by a stubborn idiot like Carlisle.

It was Manu's poor stamina that makes him far more efficient playing off the bench than starting. 82 games are obviously too many for him to adapt to and Pop has to use him that way in order to reserve his energy for crunch minutes and playoffs, Manu also starts sometimes but it only happens few times in playoffs.

Just because Team USA meekly lost a couple pathetic games on international tournaments it doesn't mean they aren't better than Argentinians, it's just their underestimation on their opponents or deprecation to the tournaments that made them losers in international events. Once they really considers giving a fuck about the international games, the ineradicable dream team turn unstoppable even to Spain Basketball team not to mention Argentiniards.

[sook]

spurfan overrates ginobil so much :lmao.


Lets first talk about whether or not Ginobili could lead a team to the playoffs without duncan :lol

[sook]

Duncan could have won all 4 championships without Ginobili, saying he would have won any less is insulting.

[WESTACKED]

spurfan overrates ginobil so much :lmao.


Lets first talk about whether or not Ginobili could lead a team to the playoffs without duncan :lol
nowhere close to how much you rockets fans overrate the 7-foot-6 glass column, who's already broken in grits.

[lennyalderette]

manu is a true champion something dallas knows nothing of!! their "leader" dirk? or wait j kidd? or wait j terry? which leader do you give the ball to during the playoffs??? even better during the finals?? its a team full of chokers!! hey but look they got 1 wcf trphy lmao god i hope dallas doesnt represent the west again

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

manu is a true champion something dallas knows nothing of!! their "leader" dirk? or wait j kidd? or wait j terry? which leader do you give the ball to during the playoffs??? even better during the finals?? its a team full of chokers!! hey but look they got 1 wcf trphy lmao god i hope dallas doesnt represent the west again


Do Nazis have a thing against using periods and capitalizing the first letter of every sentence?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think if Manu was option number 1 like Wade or Kobe back when he was in his 20s Manu could have competed for a scoring title.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the 04-05 suns team, how many honors and titles did it have?
If I remember correctly:
Nash MVP (1st or 2nd?)
Dantoni COY
Nash 1st team all nba
Amare 2nd team all nba
shawn marion 3 team all nba
all 3 were all stars as well
and you had a young "franchise" player in joe johnson

The best coach. The best player. And 2 bonafide sidekicks. and you got beat by...

tim duncan (last MVP was several seasons before, 1st team all NBA and all star but his career averages are statistically not particularly impressive)
pop (a former COY himself)
14.8ppg (all star that year, coaches pick)
and tony parker (neither all nor star nor finals mvp till later)
bruce mother fucking bowen (french A1 league high scorer)

so are you really going to go by "titles"?
do you think nash was better than duncan that year? how about amare for that matter, a lot of fools said he had a bigger series because he dropped big numbers but anyone who really watched knew duncan was playing with him.
that dantoni was better than pop?
that marion was more valuable than bowen (not to mention manu and tp)?

so back to my original question you ignored...
what are the stats/titles necessary to guarantee contender alpha dog status? of course you've got to say that it depends on the supporting cast.. but as the 04-05 suns show having a collection of award worthy players (and coach! :lmao) doesnt guarantee contender status vs a less condecorated team. So how many more elite players do the suns need to finally win a ring like manu?


Duncan was the alpha dog on the 2005 Spurs. Nash was the alpha dog on the 2005 Suns. Duncan is a way more decorated player than Nash, so idk what your point was, but it was retarded.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In the 2005 playoffs Manu was arguably the Spurs best player


No, he wasn't.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What year did Manu have that was better than Dirks MVP year? Please tell me.


That one year he dominated B-list competition!

[dirk4mvp]

It's always great when Manu or Parker fan tries pulling some lame ass "In X title year, Manu/Parker was arguably the Spurs' best player". Sure thing brah.



If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.

Are you factoring in Manu's awesome ability to get injured at any given time?

[ElNono]

I wonder what Manu did to Sunsfan to be so butthurt... :lmao

[Rick Carlisle]

I wonder what Manu did to Sunsfan to be so butthurt... :lmao

Nothing that Dirk hasn't done.

[DAF86]

Nothing that Dirk hasn't done.

So winning a championship is out of the ecuation.

[DAF86]

No, he wasn't.

Go see the stats or articles made during that time, you might get surprised.

[Xylus]

I wonder what Manu did to Sunsfan to be so butthurt... :lmao

I don't think that it's Manu that's riling DOK up, it's Spurfan.

[mojorizen7]

Hmmm....
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:EKoVQIyUPli2JM:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Jzp3C9hQd7A/SaCrf3yZhRI/AAAAAAAAAwQ/AlfD__AVAqY/s400/273px_Anti_Nazi_Symbol_svg.png

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Go see the stats or articles made during that time, you might get surprised.


I saw them and Duncan's stats were better. I know Manu almost won finals MVP but Duncan actually did.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wonder what Manu did to Sunsfan to be so butthurt... :lmao


Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

[Cane]

Damn, Saturday nights must really suck for DOK.

[leemajors]

Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.

Dirk is a picture perfect Aryan from Germany. Does that mean Manu and his fans are Dirk sympathizers?

[ElNono]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

Being ignorant is your problem, not mine. A Nazi sympathizer in Argentina will end up in jail. There's an ample jew community there along with anti-semitic laws.

[Muser]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

Pretty ignorant statement.

[DAF86]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

Well, then you are pretty fucking stupid and I would like you to stop bringing that shit up. I never paid attention to it 'cause I thought you just were fucking around, but if you really bealive that shit then you are an ignorant sad little person and I would like you to stop defaming me.

[mavs>spurs2]

http://www.bobpitch.com/anon/her_name_is_rio_aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

[DPG21920]

I wonder why Suns fans hate all things Spurs?

[DAF86]

I saw them and Duncan's stats were better. I know Manu almost won finals MVP but Duncan actually did.

Therefore the "arguably" part.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wonder why Suns fans hate all things Spurs?


Once again I don't hate Manu the player. Saying Dirk is a better player than Manu and that Manu can't be the alpha dog on a championship team doesn't make me a Manu hater. I'd say the same thing about Amare, Dirk is better and he can't be the alpha dog on a championship team. I guess that means I hate Amare.

[badfish22]

I wonder why Suns fans hate all things Spurs?

Using that logic, why would they love (as fkla puts it) Dirk?

4Vy0kI4SMvo

[BlackBellamy]

Dirk is a picture perfect Aryan from Germany. Does that mean Manu and his fans are Dirk sympathizers?

That would explain "the foul"...

[DPG21920]

Using that logic, why would they love (as fkla puts it) Dirk?

4Vy0kI4SMvo

:lol yeah the Mavs are to the Suns what the Spurs are to the Suns. That is apples to apples.

[Cane]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

You're the retard. Shame the Nazi's didn't toast your parents or grandparents so we wouldn't have this shitty attention-whoring topic. :toast

[ElNono]

Once again I don't hate Manu the player.

So what other Manu are we talking about? What other Manu do you hate? Manu the ....?

And your overall ignorance and stupidity has very little to do with your religious background. My dad's uncle was a POW during Nazi's occupied France. His other uncle was killed by Nazis, and I carry his name in his honor. So why don't you take your Nazi schtik, make a nice cone with it and shove it up your ass?

[DPG21920]

So what other Manu are we talking about? What other Manu do you hate? Manu the ....?

And your overall ignorance and stupidity has very little to do with your religious background. My dad's uncle was a POW during Nazi's occupied France. His other uncle was killed by Nazis, and I carry his name in his honor. So why don't you take your Nazi schtik, make a nice cone with it and shove it up your ass?

Now the Mav Krew and their lackeys will just call you butt hurt because that is their answer to everything.

[HarlemHeat37]

You're the retard. Shame the Nazi's didn't toast your parents or grandparents so we wouldn't have this shitty attention-whoring topic. :toast

:wow:wow:wow

[Muser]

You're the retard. Shame the Nazi's didn't toast your parents or grandparents so we wouldn't have this shitty attention-whoring topic. :toast

:nope

[AnthonyM]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

Lol at you making a poll with two options, one being "None" and the other being "I love Nazis" and then pulling this card about yourself being Jewish and going serious on this thread about people loving Nazis...

What did you expect? To not get any troll answers or people voting that just to piss you off on the "I love Nazis" option?

Pretty lame

[Cane]

:wow:wow:wow


:nope

Yea I did cross that line; fuck internet trolls that try and use the Holocaust to shit on the entire country of Argentina and Manu fans. The OP's the same kind of asshat that goes and generalizes every place to be shit as seen in "Phoenix versus people opposed to segregation thread".

This guy wastes entire days including Saturday just to troll, he deserves all sorts of shit. :toast

[TheSullyMonster]

In san antonio Manu found probably the best cradle for growth and Pop is just a great coach devious in cultivating youngsters,


:rollin
Who has Pop developed outside of Parker and Ginobili?

[DJB]

without duncan, manu would win more than or equal to the amount of championships won by the phoenix suns franchise from 1968 (inception) till 2025.

now for a harder question:
how many MVPs, ROYs, COYs, ALL NBAers do the phoenix suns need on the same team to win a ring? I say 1 MVP, 1 COY, 3 all nba and another 2-3 all stars at minimum

:lol

[DAF86]

Once again I don't hate Manu the player. Saying Dirk is a better player than Manu and that Manu can't be the alpha dog on a championship team doesn't make me a Manu hater. I'd say the same thing about Amare, Dirk is better and he can't be the alpha dog on a championship team. I guess that means I hate Amare.

Put Amare on the Hawks and they become a championship contender with him as the alpha dog or are you going to say that Joe Johnson > Amare?

[Killakobe81]

I say none unless he was paired with KG, Kobe, Shaq Lebron or Dwight Howard

[Killakobe81]

Manu is a great player and had so much success in his career. I will probably get a whole wave of criticism and hate for saying this by some spurs fans but Manu is overrated. By Spurs fans, but also by others.

Don't get me wrong, im not saying he isnt a great player, because he is But there are so many who have sunglasses on when its about manu, it's like he is god. He is very popular among spurs fans, that has to do with it, some maybe get carried away because of that. He is great, but not that great how many make him.

And no, I don't hate him, nor am I French.

Co-signed. Put Manu on teh Lakers I think yes they win a title ..but Shaq needed Kobe when he was oiut with injuries or being fat ...
Even though Shaq was the Finals MVP ...Kobe won some key games for the Lakers.

Dont get me wong I love manu's game as the 3rd option on the Laker sor even a 2nd he would of been amazing.
AND if he played on Phoenix or Denver he would of put up even greater numbers ...but he IS OVERRATED by some and UNDERRATED by others.

Manu is in the class of Ray Allen, Pierce, pippen Dumars, etc. great secondary stars ...

He is NOt in the class of: Lebron, kobe, Dirk KG Shaq and Tim ...

[DAF86]

Manu is in the class of Ray Allen, Pierce, pippen Dumars, etc. great secondary stars ...

He is NOt in the class of: Lebron, kobe, Dirk KG Shaq and Tim ...

I agree with all of this untill that part that I bolded. People placing Dirk in the same class as Shaq, Lebron, Tim, Kobe, KG is the reason why I say that he is overrated in here.

[sonic21]

I agree with all of this untill that part that I bolded. People placing Dirk in the same class as Shaq, Lebron, Tim, Kobe, KG is the reason why I say that he is overrated in here.

it's the class of people who carried their team to the finals. Dirk is definitely there.

[Muser]

If anyone is overrated in that tier it's KG, he took an average team to the WCF, Dirk took an average team to the Finals.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Put Amare on the Hawks and they become a championship contender with him as the alpha dog or are you going to say that Joe Johnson > Amare?

I'd say JJ would be the main option because he's also a playmaker. Amare is strictly a scorer and doesn't make his teammates better at all. One thing I'll knock Dirk on is that he isn't particularily good at making his teammates better.

[DAF86]

it's the class of people who carried their team to the finals. Dirk is definitely there.


If anyone is overrated in that tier it's KG, he took an average team to the WCF, Dirk took an average team to the Finals.

When somebody argues that Dirk never lead a team to a championship Mavs and Dirk fans say that basketball is a team sport and that a player can't win it all by himself (which is true) but now you want to place him in the tier 1 of the league by saying that he lead a team to the NBA finals? you can't have it both ways. Dirk is a great player but not a tier 1.

P/S: Muser, dirk didn't take a mediocre team to the NBA finals he took the best team of that/those year/s to the finals.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

IMO Lebron, Shaq, Kobe and Duncan are in a tier of their own. Dirk and KG are in a middle tier, and then then there's the tier where you put wings like Manu, VC, Pierce etc.

[DAF86]

I'd say JJ would be the main option because he's also a playmaker. Amare is strictly a scorer and doesn't make his teammates better at all. One thing I'll knock Dirk on is that he isn't particularily good at making his teammates better.

Then you will agree that you can be the alpha dog or number one option of a team without beign particulary good at making teammates better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Then you will agree that you can be the alpha dog or number one option of a team without beign particulary good at making teammates better.


Yeah, but what's your point? Manu's a pretty good passer.

[spurs10]

When I find myself agreeing with 21_Blisters, it time to go.

[DAF86]

Yeah, but what's your point? Manu's a pretty good passer.

That Amare can also be the alpha dog of a championship team.

[ElNono]

LOL @ Lakerfans calling Pierce second tier when he was numero uno in Boston's championship season and obliterated LA in the Finals.

[badfish22]

:lol yeah the Mavs are to the Suns what the Spurs are to the Suns. That is apples to apples.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol you showed me bro. You're totally right.

[DPG21920]

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol you showed me bro. You're totally right.

I know, but only after you totally showed me by posting the youtubes. Quit trying so hard to join the Mav Krew.

[Killakobe81]

IMO Lebron, Shaq, Kobe and Duncan are in a tier of their own. Dirk and KG are in a middle tier, and then then there's the tier where you put wings like Manu, VC, Pierce etc.

I would accept that the tier I originally listed were all league MVp's with a Finals appearance ...which is why i left Nash and wade off ...

[badfish22]

Quit trying so hard to join the Mav Krew.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Thats it man. Nice comeback.

[DPG21920]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Thats it man. Nice comeback.

The fact you look foolish by comparing the Mavs and the Spurs when it comes to the Suns should not hurt you so bad.

Butthurt? LMAO, CROFL. "I like this kid..."

[badfish22]

The fact you look foolish by comparing the Mavs and the Spurs when it comes to the Suns should not hurt you so bad.

Butthurt? LMAO, CROFL. "I like this kid..."

Keep it coming! :rollin :rollin :rollin You're on a roll right now.

[DPG21920]

Keep it coming! :rollin :rollin :rollin You're on a roll right now.

Butt hurt? Boom Roasted! Mav Krew por vida!

[badfish22]

I wasn't comparing "the Mavs and the Spurs when it comes to the Suns". I was comparing Dirk and Manu when it comes to the Suns. Why would Sun fans be so butt hurt over Manu but be Dirk "cock slobbers" (fklas words)?

[DPG21920]

Because Manu is a part of the Spurs. The Spurs own the Suns.

[duhoh]

That Amare can also be the alpha dog of a championship team.

i gotta see that to believe it.

dirk is solid, and a HoF.

but international accomplishments are taken into account (euroleagues, olympics) and i'll say he's there.

[FkLA]

Nothing against Manu, just his retarded fan base. Plus I'm Jewish so people who like Nazis (and yes, I seriously believe you and DAF have been taught to and do sympathize for Nazis) kinda piss me off.

LOL :lmao

what a moronic piece of shit


Are you factoring in Manu's awesome ability to get injured at any given time?

Before last season's injury Manu played 70+ games in every year of his career except two, in those two he played 65 and 69. Before last season he had played in every single playoff game the Spurs have played since he arrived. This season he's missed like 2-3 games.

He got injured last season because of all the mileage he had accumulated and not because he is injury prone.


Got damn fkla is such a sack of shit.

Hei,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tvhr88Ug4OQ/SskavtSYexI/AAAAAAAAAcc/C54pdlTYGpE/s400/kid-middle-finger.jpg


I wasn't comparing "the Mavs and the Spurs when it comes to the Suns". I was comparing Dirk and Manu when it comes to the Suns. Why would Sun fans be so butt hurt over Manu but be Dirk "cock slobbers" (fklas words)?

Ok, when I said that to DoK I said "you and the Dirk cock slobbers". I was referring to you and the rest of fans of the girls in blue as cock slobbers not him, hence the ''and'' in between.

Not that that changes the fact Manu and the Spurs have caused Suns fan much more suffering than Dirk and the Mavs have like numerous people have already said.

[FkLA]

Also why the fuck is this discussion still going on, DoK and the Dirk cock slobbers (extra points for badfish) have already owned themselves...


They said Manu is capable of being the alpha dog of a respectable playoff team, not necessarily a championship team. Dirk has been the alpha dog of a respectable playoff team that elevated to championship contender for 2 years (and experienced epic chokes in both yrs). They claim there is this huge gap between those two things, going as far as saying that the gap between Dirk and Duncan is smaller than the gap between Dirk and Manu. So I ask is there really that huge of a gap between what they themselves said Manu was capable of doing as an alpha dog and what Dirk has accomplished as an alpha dog? Cause it doesnt seem like it.

[21_Blessings]

Don't worry. Manu will win a championship without Duncan next season when he's coming off the Lakers bench.

[Hemotivo]

:lol

[FkLA]

Also why the fuck is this discussion still going on, DoK and the Dirk cock slobbers (extra points for badfish) have already owned themselves...


They said Manu is capable of being the alpha dog of a respectable playoff team, not necessarily a championship team. Dirk has been the alpha dog of a respectable playoff team that elevated to championship contender for 2 years (and experienced epic chokes in both yrs). They claim there is this huge gap between those two things, going as far as saying that the gap between Dirk and Duncan is smaller than the gap between Dirk and Manu. So I ask is there really that huge of a gap between what they themselves said Manu was capable of doing as an alpha dog and what Dirk has accomplished as an alpha dog? Cause it doesnt seem like it.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K8E_zMLCRNg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K8E_zMLCRNg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>