The Scum of the Earth

[balli]

Tea party protesters hurl racial insults at Georgia Rep. John Lewis

By WILLIAM DOUGLAS
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON -- Demonstrators outside the U.S. Capitol, angry over the proposed health-care reform bill, shouted "######" Saturday at U.S. Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was nearly beaten to death during an Alabama march in the 1960s.

The protesters also shouted obscenities at other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, lawmakers said.

"They were shouting, sort of harassing," Lewis said. "But, it's OK, I've faced this before. It reminded me of the '60s. It was a lot of downright hate and anger and people being downright mean."

Lewis said he was leaving the Cannon office building across from the Capitol when protesters shouted "Kill the bill, kill the bill," Lewis said.

"I said 'I'm for the bill, I support the bill, I'm voting for the bill,' " Lewis said.

A colleague who was accompanying Lewis said people in the crowd responded by saying "Kill the bill, then the n-word."

"It surprised me that people are so mean and we can't engage in a civil dialogue and debate," Lewis said.

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., said he was a few yards behind Lewis and distinctly heard "######."

"It was a chorus," Cleaver said. "In a way, I feel sorry for those people who are doing this nasty stuff - they're being whipped up. I decided I wouldn't be angry with any of them."

Protestors also used a slur as they confronted Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., an openly gay member of Congress. A writer for Huffington Post said the crowd called Frank a "faggot."

Frank told the Boston Globe that the incident happened as he was walking from the Longworth House office building to the Rayburn House office building, both a short distance from the Capitol. Frank said the crowd consisted of a couple hundred of people and that they referred to him as "homo."

"I'm disappointed with the unwillingness to be civil," Frank told the Globe. "I was, I guess, surprised by the rancor. What it means is obviously the health-care bill is proxy for a lot of other sentiments, some of which are perfectly reasonable, but some of which are not."

"People out there today, on the whole, were really hateful," Frank said. "The leaders of this movement have a responsibility to speak out more."

Thousands of demonstrators gathered outside the Capitol on Saturday as the House Democratic leadership worked to gather enough votes to enact a health-care overhaul proposal that has become the centerpiece of President Barack Obama's domestic agenda. Most were affiliated with so-called tea party organizations that originally sprang up during last summer's protests of the health-care proposals.

Heated debate has surrounded what role race plays in the motivations of the tea party demonstrators. During protests last summer, demonstrators displayed a poster depicting Obama as an African witch doctor complete with headdress, above the words "OBAMACARE coming to a clinic near you." Former President Jimmy Carter asserted in September that racism was a major factor behind the hostility that Obama's proposals had faced.

The claim brought angry rebuttals from Republicans.

On Saturday, Frank, however, said he was sorry Republican leaders didn't do more to disown the protesters.

Some Republicans "think they are benefiting from this rancor," he said.

House Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said Saturday's ugliness underscored for him that the health-care overhaul isn't the only motivation for many protesters.

"I heard people saying things today I've not heard since March 15th, 1960, when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus," Clyburn said. "This is incredible, shocking to me."

He added, "A lot of us have said for a long time that none of this is about health care at all. It's about extending a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/20/1539386/tea-party-protesters-hurl-racial.html#ixzz0ilYllVB3

Fuck you Yonivore, snc, wc, whottt, crookshanks and any of the rest of you pieces of shit who barely deserve the air you breathe. May hell burn hotter when it receives your trash fucking souls.

[Crookshanks]

off your meds again?

[whottt]

You are such a racist. Easily more racist than anyone in that article, or anyone on this forum.



But since you went there...I don't give a shit what anyone calls anyone if the alternative is supporting this shitty healthcare bill. I don't want his fucking healthcare bill...and if that makes me a racist, then I am a racist.

So be it. Contratulations for this tact. It's not going to make people support that healthcare bill, and it's going to make people care less about racism.

I absolutely despise manipulative people so go ahead and consider me a racist. I'll get over it, especially because you are the racist bigot. Full of hate and twisted with guilt.

[DMX7]

The Tea Party people are just good folk. I don't see why they get a bad rap.


EXsRH73Cnw8

[boutons_deux]

"then I am a racist"

... there has been no doubt about that for years. :lol

The teabaggers are of the same extremist loser, racist, hate-spewing ilk as Beckkk, Limbaugh, all the right-wing hate media, etc, etc.

[whottt]

The Tea Party people are just good folk. I don't see why they get a bad rap.


EXsRH73Cnw8

Yes, if only they could be tolerant and unite in the Spirit of brotherhood...you know, follow the example of tolerance and brotherhood you and ball exemplify.

[whottt]

"then I am a racist"

... there has been no doubt about that for years. :lol

Racist as they come. Card carrying member of the KKK. You name it.



The teabaggers are of the same extremist loser, racist, hate-spewing ilk as Beckkk, Limbaugh, all the right-wing hate media, etc, etc.

True, if only they could be more like you.

[Wild Cobra]

Where's the video that shows someone said Lewis was a ######?

What if it was a black democrat?

We only have the word of the journalist. We know they stretch the truth and spin things from time to time.

[ploto]

"What it means is obviously the health-care bill is proxy for a lot of other sentiments, some of which are perfectly reasonable, but some of which are not."

[Wild Cobra]

"What it means is obviously the health-care bill is proxy for a lot of other sentiments, some of which are perfectly reasonable, but some of which are not."
If by proxy, you mean how many people want an authoritarian nanny government, I agree.

[Mr. Peabody]

The Tea Party people are just good folk. I don't see why they get a bad rap.


EXsRH73Cnw8

Turns out that guy that they were yelling at to "Get a Job" has a PhD, was a nuclear engineer, and later, a professor at The University of Michigan. He developed Parkinson's 15 years ago.

[whottt]

Jesus Christ. Hopefully another black guy will never get elected President since all "they" seem to be able to do is throw the race card round. Whoohoo, we elected a victim to lead the country.

Black President = Victim in Chief.

Pass.

[Wild Cobra]

Turns out that guy that they were yelling at to "Get a Job" has a PhD, was a nuclear engineer, and later, a professor at The University of Michigan. He developed Parkinson's 15 years ago.

Parkinson's doesn't keep you from holding that type of job.

[whottt]

Turns out that guy that they were yelling at to "Get a Job" has a PhD, was a nuclear engineer, and later, a professor at The University of Michigan. He developed Parkinson's 15 years ago.

Funny, you guys don't seem to care about disabled people when it comes to Palin's kid.


I remember when you guys wrote that article saying her son should have been aborted. Racist sexist bigots.

[boutons_deux]

"you guys don't seem to care about disabled people when it comes to Palin's kid. "

You Lie. and you can't back it up.

Your ditzy girlfriend exploited "my baby" for her own selfish ambitions.

btw, "my baby" 's special needs care is not coming out of pitbull bitch's millions, but from "socialist" health services.

[whottt]

"you guys don't seem to care about disabled people when it comes to Palin's kid. "

You Lie. and you can't back it up.

Your ditzy girlfriend exploited "my baby" for her own selfish ambitions.

btw, "my baby" 's special needs care is not coming out of pitbull bitch's millions, but from "socialist" health services.


It's hilarious the way your sexism and racism skew your views of reality.

Nothing distorts like the lens of racial and gender hatred I spose.

[whottt]

my shitty race

Sorry boutons...but that definitely proves you are a racist, especially if you support the health care bill...you just have what you believe is an easier (safe)target for your racial hatred.

Liberals are full of self hatred...as if they somehow think that makes them good people. However since they direct their hatred outward via projection instead the proper direction of inward to choke themselves on their own self generated hate...they aren't good at all, they're actually worse because in addition to being consumed by incendiary racial hatred they are cowards as well.

A self hating person seeks to make others hate themselves as much as they do. It is the prism through which they view the world.

Not really worth listening to or taking seriously.

[EmptyMan]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4976/34586719.jpg

[Creepn]

It's hilarious the way your sexism and racism skew your views of reality.

Nothing distorts like the lens of racial and gender hatred I spose.

Dude what the fuck? The crowd chanter "######!" 15 times. How can you justify that fucking behavior? Doing so makes you a racist. You trying to do your reverse psychology bullshit but it doesnt work if you are already a racist.

It's sick and stupid and I thought white people wouldve learned from their barbaric behavior when they chanted the same thing to black students in Little Rock. Many other times as well. MANY.

[whottt]

Dude what the fuck? The crowd chanter "######!" 15 times.

So? I've been called a racist about 600 times for not supporting Obama, an immediate pullout of Iraq, these shitty health care prosals. How can you justify that behavior?

If you don't care, neither do I.

Furthermore, boustons uses the words ######, negro etc, about 10 times more than anyone else on this forum, in fact this might be the first time I have ever typed those words on this forum...I don't hear anyone calling him out for it.

He's a liberal so he gets a free pass to use the word as much as he wants I sposes.

Much like balli gets a free pass to openly admit racial hatred.




How can you justify that fucking behavior? Doing so makes you a racist. You trying to do your reverse psychology bullshit but it doesnt work if you are already a racist.

I am aleady a racist for not supporting, Obama, the Democrat platform, instantanous pullout from Iraq and the liberal agenda. So being called one now is nothing new.

It's totally impotent now.

:yawn



It's sick and stupid and I thought white people wouldve learned from their barbaric behavior when they chanted the same thing to black students in Little Rock. Many other times as well. MANY.

Well you know how we white people are...racist!

Maybe some day we'll learn how to be non-racist and non-bigoted from blacks, mexicans, all the non-white races and self race hating white liberals :tu

Something tells me you guys have the answers if anyone does.

[jack sommerset]

Seriously, if you think all tea party peeps are racist, you are one dumb motherfucker and a bigot.

[Mr. Peabody]

Parkinson's doesn't keep you from holding that type of job.

The guy can barely move or talk. I'm sure that tends to screw up the workday.

[whottt]

The guy can barely move or talk. I'm sure that tends to screw up the workday.

And to think...he's supposed to be covered by medicaid. Are you taking notes on how the government runs it's health programs?

Probably not.
Probably should.

[Mr. Peabody]

Where's the video that shows someone said Lewis was a ######?

What if it was a black democrat?

We only have the word of the journalist. We know they stretch the truth and spin things from time to time.

Not quite -


"It was absolutely shocking to me," Clyburn told the Huffington Post. "Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday... I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins... And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus."

"It doesn't make me nervous as all," the congressman said, when asked how the mob-like atmosphere made him feel. "In fact, as I said to one heckler, I am the hardest person in the world to intimidate, so they better go somewhere else."


Lewis said he was leaving the Cannon House office building across from the Capitol when protesters shouted "Kill the bill, kill the bill," Lewis said.

"I said 'I'm for the bill, I support the bill, I'm voting for the bill,' " Lewis said.

A colleague who was accompanying Lewis said people in the crowd responded by saying "Kill the bill, then the n-word."

"It surprised me that people are so mean and we can't engage in a civil dialogue and debate," Lewis said.

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., said he was a few yards behind Lewis and distinctly heard "n****r."

"It was a chorus," Cleaver said. "In a way, I feel sorry for those people who are doing this nasty stuff - they're being whipped up. I decided I wouldn't be angry with any of them."


This is not the first time the Congressman has been called the "n" word and certainly not the worst assault he has endured in his years fighting for equal rights for all Americans. That being said, he is disappointed that in the 21st century our national discourse has devolved to the point of name calling and spitting. He looks forward to taking a historic vote on health care reform legislation tomorrow, for the residents of the Fifth District of Missouri and for all Americans. He believes deeply that tomorrow's vote is, in fact, a vote for equality and to secure health care as a right for all. Our nation has a history of struggling each time we expand rights. Today's protests are no different, but the Congressman believes this is worth fighting for.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Can someone please outline, in 5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill?

There are currently over 50mil Americans with absolutely no health care, your private health care system is dominated by companies that actively rip off your country (drug prices as an example), and most of the world's democracies run some kind of health care for all of their citizens, and especially the poor. I would really like to know what the issue is.

I will also state that right now one of my best friends in the world has bone cancer. Without Australia's public health care system he would be dead right now as he could not have afforded the treatments, or the life-saving operation he just had. I am glad I live in a country that provides universal health care, and I'm glad my taxes go to that.

[Mr. Peabody]

And to think...he's supposed to be covered by medicaid. Are you taking notes on how the government runs it's health programs?

Probably not.
Probably should.

Last time I checked there was no cure for Parkinson's, so how is the progression of his condition an indictment of Medicaid?

[Wild Cobra]

Dude what the fuck? The crowd chanter "######!" 15 times.
Liar.

One person, or a few said such a thing. If we were to lay a burden to all liberals from what a minority of them said.... You guys would be all disgraced into obcurity!

[Wild Cobra]

The guy can barely move or talk. I'm sure that tends to screw up the workday.
Not a professor in a university.

[Wild Cobra]

And to think...he's supposed to be covered by medicaid. Are you taking notes on how the government runs it's health programs?

Probably not.
Probably should.
No shit.

If the government cannot help those who already need it, then who do liberals want everyone to depend on the government?

[Cry Havoc]

Can someone please outline, in 5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill?

There are currently over 50mil Americans with absolutely no health care, your private health care system is dominated by companies that actively rip off your country (drug prices as an example), and most of the world's democracies run some kind of health care for all of their citizens, and especially the poor. I would really like to know what the issue is.

I will also state that right now one of my best friends in the world has bone cancer. Without Australia's public health care system he would be dead right now as he could not have afforded the treatments, or the life-saving operation he just had. I am glad I live in a country that provides universal health care, and I'm glad my taxes go to that.

ITS COMMUNISM! ITS FASCISM! EVERYONE IS A NAZI!

Etc., etc.

[whottt]

Can someone please outline, in 5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill?

There are currently over 50mil Americans with absolutely no health care, your private health care system is dominated by companies that actively rip off your country (drug prices as an example), and most of the world's democracies run some kind of health care for all of their citizens, and especially the poor. I would really like to know what the issue is.

As one of those 50 million uninsured, allow me:

America already has healthcare for the poor and needy...it's called medicaid. We've alo got medicare for the elderly and other types of disabilities. We've got/had Champus for our military personnel and all sorts of other programs for state, city and federal employees.

On top of that, no you cannot simply turn someone away from emergency care on the basis of no coverage in this country.

The reason health care is expensive is because of the insurance companies and those that seek to exploit the vast holdings of cash they have. It's a fact doctors charge more because of insurance companies, just as they charge insurance companies more than they do non-insured individuals for the exact same treatments. As our private health care system has become more and more controlled by the insurance companies and HMO systems, the cost has arisen, to an out of control degree.

I am sorry but the entire concept of medical insurance is what makes it so expensive....and this initiative is not going to change that, it's simply going to turn the government into an insurance company.

Somehow we survived for the entirity of our history, without medical insurance, up until a hundred years ago or so...

Once upon time costs were kept down and treatment for all was motivated simply by social recognition...and there is absolutely no reason it cannot work that way again, except for the fact that nearly everyone wants something for free...and wants someone else to do it for them.


And finally...I once worked as a bill collector and our focus was almost univerally individuals that were supposed to be covered by our various governmental health programs and instead got a royal ass fucking when it came time for the almighty government to choose their health over dollars and cents.

I've already got a pretty good idea how this is going to work. And it's not going to make our health care system better...it's going to make it more fucked up.

If you think a government is going to ever make your health a priority over a few extra dollars for politicians, you are extremely naive of human nature, especially the nature of those that seek positions in governments.

[Stringer_Bell]

Can someone please outline, in 5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill?

From what I gather, this is what's it's about:


-According to the Congressional Budget Office’s report it will cost 940 billion over 10 years.
-It has the potential to cover 32 million uninsured starting in 2014.
-95% of Americans are required to be insured or else pay a fine (starting in 2014) exempt for low-income people.
-Taking effect in 2014 it will become illegal for insurers to deny coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more.Additionally higher premiums for women would be banned.
-No health plan would be asked to offer coverage for abortion.
-Beginning in 2011, most seniors will be getting a 50% discount on brand name drugs.
- Starting in 2018 individuals making more than $200,000, or married couples above $250,000 will be facing a 3.8 percent tax increase in order to pay for the bill.http://news.spreadit.org/health-care-bill-text-summary-online-vote/

What's the problem? Well, insurance companies pick up all the sick people (that MUST buy some kind of insurance or else be FINED), but to help treat those people the existing insured people will have to pay higher premiums and the insurance companies still make good money because of all the promised new enrolled people. If the pre-Bush tax policy is in place, it'll be in addition to the 3.8% tax the $200-250K folks have to pay (which supposedly kills the economy because they won't have enough money to buy the real expensive shit that keeps our economy alive and/or create jobs).

I don't think this bill is a solution, and even though I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to this debate, I'd rather see a Public Option if people are going to end up getting taxed for it anyway. Someone is gonna fit the bill for a new healthcare system no matter what, so might as well keep money away from the insurance companies that will just jack up the cost of everything anyway. Right?

PS: The Tea Party is mostly made up of proud Americans. They weren't proud enough to speak up to Bush, but you can bet they're proud enough to speak up against the communist socialist black dude and his black friends. Seriously, I can't believe people still use communist and socialist as put downs. This ain't the fucking Cold War, sons.

[symple19]

This board is hilarious...

Left side: Repugs!! Teabagger, neocon morons!!!! Racist, corporation loving rednecks!!!!

Right side: Commie Pinko, bleeding heart, tree hugging libtards!!!! Obamacare, cap and trade dipshits!!!

And on, and on, and on....



How about all of you in the above categories kill yourselves?!

Then those of us who are left can govern this country in a sensible manner

[whottt]

I love how anyone expects this same goverment that is totally screwing it's own soldiers over on health care excpects them to behave differently when it comes to the typical citizen. It is completely foolish. It's just going to turn into an atm for politicans and insurance execs.

[Mr. Peabody]

The reason health care is expensive is because of the insurance companies and those that seek to exploit the vast holdings of cash they have. As our private health care system has become more and more controlled by the insurance companies and HMO system, the cost has arisen.

I am sorry but the entire concept of medical insurance is what makes it so expensive....and this initiative is not going to change that, it's simply going to turn the government into an insurance company.

Somehow we survived for the entirity of our history, without medical insurance, up until a hundred years ago or so...

Once upon time costs were kept down and treatment for all was motivated simply by social recognition...and there is absolutely no way it cannot work that way again, except for the fact that nearly everyone wants something for free...and wants someone else to do it for them.


+1

I just don't understand how insurance, which should be for catastrophic occurrences, became the norm for every visit to a doctor or hospital, whether for a mere checkup or the common cold. There is no part of the health care system that is meant for a person paying the fee themselves anymore.

When I was in college, I didn't have medical insurance and when I would see my doctor, he would give me the "uninsured rate" which was roughly a third of what people with insurance were paying.

[whottt]

+1

I just don't understand how insurance, which should be for catastrophic occurrences, became the norm for every visit to a doctor or hospital, whether for a mere checkup or the common cold. There is no part of the health care system that is meant for a person paying the fee themselves anymore.

When I was in college, I didn't have medical insurance and when I would see my doctor, he would give me the "uninsured rate" which was roughly a third of what people with insurance were paying.

And they still do it. I don't have any dental insurance and my dental work is cheap compared to those with dental insurance. I firmly believe I come out ahead by not having any insurance whatsover because I don't have any premiums.


And I am glad you mentioned catastrophic health care...

I've have absolutely no problem with government sponsored catastrophic health care, in which the governments primary purpose was to make sure life threatening conditions are treatable for everyone. I would support it 100%. But only if it is for catastrophic illness or injury.

However that is not what this is...it's nowhere near that. This is just a cash system that is going to be taken advantage of by nearly everyone. Including hypochondriacs. It's going to cost a hell of a lot more than it is going to be worth and I see absolutely no way this is going to lead to advancements in medicine either.

[CuckingFunt]

Fuck you Yonivore, snc, wc, whottt, crookshanks and any of the rest of you pieces of shit who barely deserve the air you breathe. May hell burn hotter when it receives your trash fucking souls.

Probably not the most productive response to an article that seemingly advocates for an increase in civility and intelligent political discourse.

[mookie2001]

but when you tell that to someone who is poor, has no insurance, cant afford healthcare and has never had healthcare, what are they supposed to think?


you can explain it all you want, but the natural human reaction is "wellllp i guess i'll give it a whirl then"

[Wild Cobra]

And they still do it. I don't have any dental insurance and my dental work is cheap compared to those with dental insurance. I firmly believe I come out ahead by not having any insurance whatsover.

I agree.

The times I have been uninsured, I simply went to different doctors and asked what a cash paying customer would be charged. Very affordable for everything I ever needed, once I found a few who dropped normal pricing. They get paid on the spot, and have no need for miles of insurance paperwork, then fighting with the insurance companies to get paid.

[exstatic]

Can someone please outline, in 5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill?

There are currently over 50mil Americans with absolutely no health care, your private health care system is dominated by companies that actively rip off your country (drug prices as an example), and most of the world's democracies run some kind of health care for all of their citizens, and especially the poor. I would really like to know what the issue is.

I will also state that right now one of my best friends in the world has bone cancer. Without Australia's public health care system he would be dead right now as he could not have afforded the treatments, or the life-saving operation he just had. I am glad I live in a country that provides universal health care, and I'm glad my taxes go to that.
1. Obama
2. proposed
3. it
4. so
5. Republicans
6. will
7. oppose
8. it
9. without
10. thought

[Mr. Peabody]

I agree.

The times I have been uninsured, I simply went to different doctors and asked what a cash paying customer would be charged. Very affordable for everything I ever needed, once I found a few who dropped normal pricing. They get paid on the spot, and have no need for miles of insurance paperwork, then fighting with the insurance companies to get paid.

The problem is when you need more than just a doctor's visit. When I didn't have insurance, my doctor would cut his fee for me, but when I had to have tests done, I was SOL. One time, he told me I needed an upper GI and lower GI (for acid reflux) and I had to give the hospital a cool grand in order to get the tests done. And they wanted their money up front. I had to take a loan to pay it.

[Wild Cobra]

The problem is when you need more than just a doctor's visit. When I didn't have insurance, my doctor would cut his fee for me, but when I had to have tests done, I was SOL. One time, he told me I needed an upper GI and lower GI (for acid reflux) and I had to give the hospital a cool grand in order to get the tests done. And they wanted their money up front. I had to take a loan to pay it.
Hmmm...

You know, in the 60's, we just changed our diet and took ant-acids.

I'm sorry, but life isn't easy. Health care insurance is actually affordable if you get a policy that excludes small costs, but pays for larger ones.

Ever shop around?

Then even for the GI tests, did you by chance pick up the yellow pages and get quotes?

[whottt]

I agree.

The times I have been uninsured, I simply went to different doctors and asked what a cash paying customer would be charged. Very affordable for everything I ever needed, once I found a few who dropped normal pricing. They get paid on the spot, and have no need for miles of insurance paperwork, then fighting with the insurance companies to get paid.

Most of them will let you pay out the dental work etc in installments as well. Just like paying insurance, only you are paying for something you actually received in the first place. Instead of paying in advance for something you might never need.

I have been lucky to have good health up until this point in my life...I don't really understand the concept of paying for something you might possibly need, but might possibly not, in advance. It is the biggest scam in modern history. It's only necessary if prices are artificially inflated.

Every form of insurance only serves to increase the cost of what is being insured. Health, houses, cars, etc. It is a total racket.

[whottt]

1. Obama
2. proposed
3. it
4. so
5. Republicans
6. will
7. oppose
8. it
9. without
10. thought


And why didn't they like it when John Kerry was proposing it?

[symple19]

This is insanity... Although I'm conservative (whatever that means anymore) on foreign policy, health care should be automatic for any american. It's fucking ridiculous that we have the numbers uninsured that we presently have. Find the goddamn money, and take care of those that can't afford it!!!!

If that means a universal option...Do it! The private industry will thrive based on all the rich fucks that need cosmetic bullshit done, among other things.

My VA private care doctor abandoned his practice because he was fed up with HMOs controlling his livelihood, that's why there are excellent MDs in the VA system today!!! Insurance companies have run amok, ruining a system that should have worked...But it hasn't. We need some practical fucking solutions to this, because our economy will not recover until people are able to free themselves from the weight of paying for health care, not to mention businesses.

Can you imagine if businesses were freed from worrying about health care/insurance????!!!!!

[Mr. Peabody]

Hmmm...

You know, in the 60's, we just changed our diet and took ant-acids.

I'm sorry, but life isn't easy. Health care insurance is actually affordable if you get a policy that excludes small costs, but pays for larger ones.

Ever shop around?

Then even for the GI tests, did you by chance pick up the yellow pages and get quotes?

The problem is doctors only work in certain hospitals. We faced that problem when my wife had my son. We wanted a certain hospital, so we had to change the OB/GYN she had, so that we could get the hospital we wanted.

[whottt]

This is insanity... Although I'm conservative (whatever that means anymore) on foreign policy, health care should be automatic for any american. It's fucking ridiculous that we have the numbers uninsured that we presently have. Find the goddamn money, and take care of those that can't afford it!!!!

If that means a universal option...Do it! The private industry will thrive based on all the rich fucks that need cosmetic bullshit done, among other things.

My VA private care doctor abandoned his practice because he was fed up with HMOs controlling his livelihood, that's why there are excellent MDs in the VA system today!!! Insurance companies have run amok, ruining a system that should have worked...But it hasn't. We need some practical fucking solutions to this, because our economy will not recover until people are able to free themselves from the weight of paying for health care, not to mention businesses.

Can you imagine if businesses were freed from worrying about health care/insurance????!!!!!

I can tell you where the fucking money is...it' the hands of the insurance companies, the lobbyists, the malpractice lawyers, and the politicians, iow, it's in the hands of the same people that are pushing this program so they can get even more money.

That exactly where the fucking money is.

Damn...it's not that hard to figure out.


If you really want to solve this problem the best way to go about it to posiition the government as a viable oppositional force to the insurance companies, so that it might kick the shit out of them, as well as the lawyers, and doctors, and orther individuals, that artificially drive up the costs, instead of merging them into one gigantic entity with 4 of it's 5 fingers in our wallets.


The more middle men you have, the worse deal you are going to get.

Symple as that.

[Stringer_Bell]

If you really want to solve this problem the best way to go about it to posiition the government as a viable oppositional force to the insurance companies, so that it might kick the shit out of them, as well as the lawyers, and doctors, and orther individuals, that artificially drive up the costs, instead of merging them into one gigantic entity with 4 of it's 5 fingers in our wallets.

Then where's the thumb supposed to be, up the Tea Party's ass? :lol

Good points all around, too bad the machine is just too big. Not even if we switched majority power to the other side would anyone step up. :depressed

[symple19]

I can tell you where the fucking money is...it' the hands of the insurance companies, the lobbyists, the malpractice lawyers, and the politicians, iow, it's in the hands of the same people that are pushing this program so they can get even more money.

That exactly where the fucking money is.

Damn...it's not that hard to figure out.




Symple as that.

Dude, I mostly agree with you...The Obama admin has kowtowed to the special interests, who essentially wrote this bill. The same fucking problem that's wrong with this whole fucking country...The monied interests dictate everything!

We the people, are useless to them. It's an endless game between crime families (dem and Repub) to control the money and the power.

[ElNono]

Hmmm...

You know, in the 60's, we just changed our diet and took ant-acids.

I'm sorry, but life isn't easy. Health care insurance is actually affordable if you get a policy that excludes small costs, but pays for larger ones.

That is, if you don't have a chronic condition. Or you simply cannot choose your own plan because your employer only gives you one option.


Ever shop around?

Then even for the GI tests, did you by chance pick up the yellow pages and get quotes?

Sure. Sometimes you can find reasonable doctors, and sometimes you can't. It doesn't invalidate the fact that the cost of healthcare is astronomical by any measurable standard, and no amount of out of pocket payments will change that fact.

That's exactly why medical insurance pools exists in the first place.

I don't like this legislation any more than you do, but you keep repeating the same talking points that really don't correlate to the reality of your fellow citizen.

[ElNono]

If you really want to solve this problem the best way to go about it to posiition the government as a viable oppositional force to the insurance companies, so that it might kick the shit out of them, as well as the lawyers, and doctors, and orther individuals, that artificially drive up the costs, instead of merging them into one gigantic entity with 4 of it's 5 fingers in our wallets.

Hit the nail in the head. Exactly the reason why nobody on either party really likes the monster they're about to pass.

[symple19]

Hit the nail in the head. Exactly the reason why nobody on either party really likes the monster they're about to pass.

Goddamn right.


Have you ever been in a government run program Whott?

The care I receive as a Vet from the VA has opened my eyes. I receive excellent care, and not just because I'm a Vet. The VA was abysmal in the past, but now it's rife with excellent doctors who are running wholesale from the same private system you are advocating.

Will it be perfect? No

Will it be better than the abomination we have now? Yes

So long as a new system (universal) allows for private practice to thrive based on the market then I see no reason not to enact it (a uni system)

[symple19]

And if somebody sees a more practical way to do it, then I'm all ears...

Yet all I hear is jackasses repeating the party lines.

Nobody wants to enact something that works, only something that will ensure that their "side" wins...

[whottt]

Then where's the thumb supposed to be, up the Tea Party's ass? :lol


It's going to be up everybody's ass...and it's not a thumb..or a finger.

[whottt]

And if somebody sees a more practical way to do it, then I'm all ears...

Yet all I hear is jackasses repeating the party lines.

Nobody wants to enact something that works, only something that will ensure that their "side" wins...

The solution is simple...you, and I, need to stop asking the goverments, and the corporations, to do things for us. We are certainly allowed to organize ourselves in such a way that we can take matters into our own hands.

Don't like the high interest rates we are getting jacked with? Then simply stop paying our credit card bills.

Don't like insurance companies and their pilot fish driving the cost of everything up to the level we have to be indentured servants to pay for it? Stop paying for it.

Don't like those big greedy corporations? Stop supporting them.

We have a medium to organize such things now...it's called the internet. We keep expecting the problems to be the solution, and it will never happen.

Any time someone wants to organize a national don't pay your credit card month to fuck the credit card companies over....consider me all in. You'll be amazed at how fast that battle ends.

There is one absolute that provides a light at the end of any governmental or corporate tunnel...

They can't throw us all in jail.

[ALWAYS bet on BLACK]

Nah, this will not be better than what we have right now.

It will be another US government fuck up.

[baseline bum]

Hit the nail in the head. Exactly the reason why nobody on either party really likes the monster they're about to pass.

I'm not so sure the parties don't like it. I'm thinking Senator Nelson loves his big handout, for one. Now if you mean the voters aligned with either party, that I definitely see.

[boutons_deux]

"5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill"

1. For the first time ever, citizens are forced, under threat of fines, to buy products from for-profit companies, forcing 30M+ citizens into the greedy, inefficient clutches of for-profit insurance companies. For the people too poor to pay exorbitant premiums, there are taxpayer-financed subsidies, which is simply continued fleecing of American taxpayers for corporate predators.

2. There is no single-buyer/single-payer.

3. There is no Medicare-for-all public insurance option.

4. There is no general thrust for reducing costs of the national health bill from the ever-increasing 16% of GDP, on average twice the cost in countries more intelligent, adult, and humane than USA.

5. There is no removal of the anti-trust exemption from for-profit insurers.

6. There is no introduction of real competition among for-profit insurers, and especially no competition from a public option insurance.

7. People on individual plans and clients of the exchanges have to pay for their insurance with after-tax earnings, while employees in employer group plans get mostly tax-free insurance (rather than salary). Employers get count the costs of group plans as a business expense.

But none of these are the primary reasons racist teabagging losing fucktards and racist/obstructionist Repugs are against healthcare reform. The Repugs and their wealthy-financed Movement Conservative fellow travellers are reflexively, blindly objecting, along with outright lying, because it's progress by and a huge political win for the Dems. The Repugs are all about destroying the Dems for Repugs' political gain, no matter how much that destruction hurts America. They intend to "Waterloo" Magic Negro by defeating health care reform.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Seriously, if you think all tea party peeps are racist, you are one dumb motherfucker and a bigot.

you are one dumb motherf*cker

[Stringer_Bell]

"5-10 short points, what is wrong with the health care bill"

1. For the first time ever, citizens are forced, under threat of fines, to buy products from for-profit companies, forcing 30M+ citizens into the greedy, inefficient clutches of for-profit insurance companies. For the people too poor to pay exorbitant premiums, there are taxpayer-financed subsidies, which is simply continued fleecing of American taxpayers for corporate predators.

2. There is no single-buyer/single-payer.

3. There is no Medicare-for-all public insurance option.

4. There is no general thrust for reducing costs the national health bill from the ever-increasing 16% of GDP.

5. There is no removal of the anti-trust exemption from for-profit insurers.

6. There is no introduction of real competition among for-profit insurers, and especially no competition from a public option insurance.

They've talking about this day for over a year, and you'd think someone in that garbage can of a representative body would have tried to address the issues you listed. Just what have they been doing for a year other than figuring out who gets what deals and favors by passing what they've got instead of making it something worth the time and blood that's been shed while people wait for a bit of help?

I don't hide my affinity for Barry O, but I do hope this vote fails.

[George Gervin's Afro]

They've talking about this day for over a year, and you'd think someone in that garbage can of a representative body would have tried to address the issues you listed. Just what have they been doing for a year other than figuring out who gets what deals and favors by passing what they've got instead of making it something worth the time and blood that's been shed while people wait for a bit of help?

I don't hide my affinity for Barry O, but I do hope this vote fails.

what deals are you talking about?

[boutons_deux]

"tried to address the issues you listed"

As flawed as the bill is, it is (only) a huge step to eventually addressing all the absent improvements.

The only way to get anything done is by terribly compromising with AMA, doctors, for-profit health insurers, BigPharma, all of whom have captured the legislative and regulatory process. A direct, one-step assault on those gangsters probably would have gotten MN assassinated (which is still a possibility. After all, this is America and everything is solved by killing someone)

Accomplishing nothing by attacking the costs (ie, their revenues) represented by those health care actors would have been worse, as Magic Negro has repeated many times.

Compared to doing nothing, there are still many excellent points in the health bill, but like any highly processed, industrial meat-like commercial sausage, it's also full of shit.

The perfect (or even something approaching health care in other developed countries) can't be the enemy of any progress.

I'm sure Kucinich was bought off by a MN promise that a public option is next up, along with annulling the Repugs' unfunded gifts to industry of forbidding single-buyer, and the wasteful Medicare Advantage.

[balli]

Probably not the most productive response to an article that seemingly advocates for an increase in civility and intelligent political discourse.
Civility is hardly my goal. Nor is turning the other cheek. There was a time not too long ago in which I might have believed these evil morons were worth the effort of such overtures, but I'm past the point where I think civility or reason have any sway, whatsoever, over such ilk as the dead ender/tea bagging crowd. Reality and courtesy are now a lost cause and I shouldn't have ever thought otherwise actually.

The only effort these people are worth is that which ruins their nights and wastes their time; i.e. by calling them out as the vermin they are; judging by the 3 pages and whottt's participation, it looks like it worked.

[Stringer_Bell]

what deals are you talking about?

All the haggling that goes on for "crucial" votes. There's negative and positive deals going on such as "vote for this bill and we'll see about making XX a priority" or "if you don't vote for this bill, don't ask for help during re-election"...you know, all the shit that happens in Model United Nations conferences except here it's real life. The TV is my source for all my information because I'm too lazy to read, but I'm sure it's just a google away if you want to go through the trouble. :king

With all the secret talks and such going on, it's conceivable (while NEVER acceptable) that "faggot" and "######" would be launched at representatives that angry crowds don't think are listening to them or answering to criticism. It's a democracy lyke c'mon now.

[George Gervin's Afro]

All the haggling that goes on for "crucial" votes. There's negative and positive deals going on such as "vote for this bill and we'll see about making XX a priority" or "if you don't vote for this bill, don't ask for help during re-election"...you know, all the shit that happens in Model United Nations conferences except here it's real life. The TV is my source for all my information because I'm too lazy to read, but I'm sure it's just a google away if you want to go through the trouble. :king

I aksed you the question because most of the 'deals' that we hear about aren't actually that special. In fact a few of the most mentioned were decided on prior to any voting taking place and would have happened without healthcare reform. It's disingenous to keep repeating about these 'special deals' when they aren't. When you are in an argument and you have to use half truths and knowable falsehoods, how strong is your argument? That's all I'm saying.. I'm not trying to indict you for spreading untruths rather just letting you know that you shouldn't always believe what you hear..

[Stringer_Bell]

I aksed you the question because most of the 'deals' that we hear about aren't actually that special. In fact a few of the most mentioned were decided on prior to any voting taking place and would have happened without healthcare reform. It's disingenous to keep repeating about these 'special deals' when they aren't. When you are in an argument and you have to use half truths and knowable falsehoods, how strong is your argument? That's all I'm saying.. I'm not trying to indict you for spreading untruths rather just letting you know that you shouldn't always believe what you hear..

You're probably right, but I still don't like the impression that ANY vote is being bought on either side for ANYTHING when its related to such an important issue. I'm sure it's happened before and it'll happen again, but names should be named each time. That's why I like Faux News and the channel that shows To Catch A Predator because they like to name names. :ihit

[boutons_deux]

SUNDAY 21 MARCH 2010
Revamped Health Care Bill Has Nine Major Changes

Saturday 20 March 2010

by: Julie Appleby and Mary Agnes Carey | Kaiser Health News

In their attempt to pass a sweeping health care overhaul this weekend, Democrats in the House of Representatives are pushing a package of legislative revisions to lure undecided or opposed members of their party to the "yes" category.

Proposed changes to the health care bill that the Senate passed include a scaled-back tax on high-cost health insurance plans — a provision that's widely unpopular with House Democrats — and more money to help states pay for an expansion of Medicaid, the state-federal health program for poor people and those with disabilities.

The new measure, called a reconciliation bill, also would take additional steps to close a gap in Medicare prescription-drug coverage and to help low- and middle-income Americans purchase health insurance through new insurance exchanges.

If the House approves it Sunday, the Senate would consider the package under a process that would require just 51 votes for passage rather than the 60-vote threshold to break a filibuster. President Barack Obama has postponed a scheduled trip to Asia to be in town to help persuade wavering Democrats to vote for the bill.

A preliminary estimate Thursday from the Congressional Budget Office concluded that the compromise bill would reduce the federal budget deficit by $138 billion over the next decade, a finding that may help House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and her leadership team fight charges from Republicans, who say the bill is too big and too expensive and would disrupt the current health care system.

Here are some of the major changes the reconciliation proposal would make to the Senate bill:

HEFTIER SUBSIDIES: Compared with the Senate legislation, the reconciliation bill would provide more generous subsidies to low- and moderate-income Americans to help them buy coverage.

THE "MASERATI" TAX: The levy on high-cost insurance plans is scaled back and delayed, rendering it more a "Maserati" than a "Cadillac" tax. It would apply only to the portion of plans that cost more than $10,200 a year for individuals, up from $8,500, and $27,500 for families, up from $23,000. The tax wouldn't kick in until 2018, reducing the projected revenue to the government by 80 percent. Over time, however, the tax would hit more and more plans, because its threshold is set to increase at the rate of inflation, while premiums are expected to continue to grow much more quickly than that.

CLOSING THE "DOUGHNUT HOLE": Unlike the Senate bill, the reconciliation measure eventually would close the coverage gap, called the "doughnut hole," for Medicare beneficiaries who are enrolled in Part D drug plans. Currently, seniors who hit the gap then must bear the full cost of their medications until they spend a certain amount, when coverage kicks back in.

Under the new bill, seniors who hit the gap this year would get $250 each to help cover the costs of their medications. Starting next year, they'd get 50 percent discounts on brand-name drugs, with the cost borne by the drug industry. In subsequent years, the discounts would expand and begin covering generic drugs, with the government picking up the expense. By 2020, the discounts would reach 75 percent.

SHIFT IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PAYOUTS: Government payments to Medicare Advantage, the private-health plan alternative to traditional Medicare, would be cut back more steeply than under the Senate bill: $132 billion over 10 years, compared with $118 billion.

The government currently pays the private plans an average of 14 percent more than it does traditional Medicare. The new bill, besides reducing payments overall, would shift the funding; some high-cost areas would be paid 5 percent below traditional Medicare, while some lower-cost areas would be paid 15 percent more than traditional Medicare. The Senate's plan that would have shielded some areas of the country, such as South Florida, from major cuts largely was eliminated.

A RAISE FOR DOCTORS: Primary care doctors would get Medicaid payment boosts in the reconciliation bill. Beginning in 2013 and 2014, the doctors' payment rates would be on par with Medicare rates, which typically are about 20 percent higher than Medicaid. The goal is to ensure that there will be a sufficient number of doctors who are willing to care for the millions of additional people who'd become eligible for Medicaid under the health care overhaul.

PUSHING UP THE MEDICARE TAX: The Senate bill adds 0.9 percentage point to the Medicare payroll tax on earned income above $200,000 for individuals or $250,000 for couples. Under the reconciliation bill, starting in 2013, people in those income brackets also would face a 3.8 percent tax on investment income, such as interest, capital gains and dividends.

PENALTY FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE: Under the new bill, most Americans without insurance would face an annual penalty, starting in 2014 at $95, the same as in the Senate bill. In following years, however, the penalties in the reconciliation bill are slightly different. Those without insurance in 2016, for example, would pay the greater of two alternatives: a flat fee of $695, down from the Senate's $750, or 2.5 percent of their incomes, up from 2 percent in the Senate bill.

EXPANDING MEDICAID: The reconciliation package here differs from the Senate bill in several ways. It would delete a provision — dubbed the "Cornhusker kickback" — that would have exempted Nebraska from paying any cost of a Medicaid expansion included in the bill. However, it would provide full federal funding to all states for newly eligible Medicaid recipients for three years. It also would give additional funding to states, such as Vermont and Maine, that already have moved to cover adults without children, which isn't required under the Medicaid program.

MEDICARE SPENDING BOARD: The Senate bill would create an independent, 15-member board to recommend ways to control Medicare spending. The board remains in the reconciliation package, but it would be expected to produce only about half of its original projected savings of $23 billion in the Senate bill. That's because the new proposal would make greater cuts in Medicare Advantage plans.

http://www.truthout.org/revamped-health-care-bill-has-9-major-changes57848?print

[Wild Cobra]

This is insanity... Although I'm conservative (whatever that means anymore) on foreign policy, health care should be automatic for any american. It's fucking ridiculous that we have the numbers uninsured that we presently have. Find the goddamn money, and take care of those that can't afford it!!!!

If that means a universal option...Do it! The private industry will thrive based on all the rich fucks that need cosmetic bullshit done, among other things.

My VA private care doctor abandoned his practice because he was fed up with HMOs controlling his livelihood, that's why there are excellent MDs in the VA system today!!! Insurance companies have run amok, ruining a system that should have worked...But it hasn't. We need some practical fucking solutions to this, because our economy will not recover until people are able to free themselves from the weight of paying for health care, not to mention businesses.

Can you imagine if businesses were freed from worrying about health care/insurance????!!!!!
Wow...

You are so wrong for so many reasons.

Health care is expensive because when you have insurance, you don't think about the $25 copay. You aren't having to manage the cost, and are blind to trying to save the pool of insured money. Legal expenses and procedures you would say "hell no" to a doctor if you had to pay for yourself are raising the costs. Now with the new bill if passed, insurance prices will skyrocket because of the regulations involved.

Our worse insurance providers still place more than 75% of the money they take in, into the providers hands. Do you really think government involvement will make that more effective?

Also, don't believe the CBO numbers. They are only as good as the data congress gives them to score with. Even then, their predictions are usually so low when it comes to spending.

[jack sommerset]

you are one dumb motherf*cker

Do you have insurance? Have you ever had insurance? Why do you want people to pay for your dumbass? I know that answer. You are stupid and lazy. Take responsibility and pay for your own shit. It really is not hard. Put your hand back in your pocket and stop asking for handouts.

I gurantee you don't contribute to this bill. (FYI, it will never go into action). Not one single penny. You are a free loading scumbag. You are not even typing from your own keyboard. You need to come clean. How much money does the government give you. From housing to food stamps. Come clean.

[ElNono]

I'm not so sure the parties don't like it. I'm thinking Senator Nelson loves his big handout, for one. Now if you mean the voters aligned with either party, that I definitely see.

Yeah, I'm talking about the voting population in general. Roughly half want a smaller version of the status quo, the other half wants a public option.
This doesn't address those things at all.

[Big P]

Tea party protesters hurl racial insults at Georgia Rep. John Lewis


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/20/1539386/tea-party-protesters-hurl-racial.html#ixzz0ilYllVB3

Fuck you Yonivore, snc, wc, whottt, crookshanks and any of the rest of you pieces of shit who barely deserve the air you breathe. May hell burn hotter when it receives your trash fucking souls.

Those dumbfucks are planted there to stir up shit & give the Republicans & Tea Party a bad name. Fuck the sleazy dems...what part of " We don't want your fucking socialized medicine" do you not understand?

[EmptyMan]

It'd be so easy for a plant to put on a suit and tie and pick on sitting man. Just sayin'

Who in their right mind would knowingly berate a worn down old man sitting on the ground suffering from parkinson's disease, let alone doing it on camera while in business attire. All while holding a sign saying "I am AFP" or whatever the name of that organization is.

[Big P]

And if somebody sees a more practical way to do it, then I'm all ears...

Yet all I hear is jackasses repeating the party lines.

Nobody wants to enact something that works, only something that will ensure that their "side" wins...

I wish the dems would see it that way...but apparently its this bill or nothing...which is bullshit...we all want health care to be reformed..why not start with why hospitals etc. charge $49 for a tylenol or $24 for a pair of rubber gloves or how about the MILLIONS of bonuses that these CEO's are getting while their companies hike rates by %100 or more..to me this seems like a logical place to start figuring out how we can bring the cost of health care down...here's another..get people jobs...then we the people can decide IF we want health care or not & pay for it themselves instead of letting the gov. tell us what we need...they cant even run cash for clunkers, what makes people think the gov. will be able to run health care....this will be the biggest FAIL in US history & will be too costly in the long run...WAKE UP!!

[Bigzax]

the greedy rich want to get richer while the lazy poor want handouts.

and most of us in the middle have to pay for both. this sucks.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Thanks for the explanations from those who gave them. :tu

So, it seems to me that this, like most of America's economic and social problems, comes down to Big Business (in this case the medical insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry, medical supply industry, etc) weilding far too much market power and running rampant (colluding and such to reap windfall profits) - in other words, it's a regulation problem. Does the bill solve it? From what you've told me, only partly. Good luck with that.

The other problem so clearly apparent from this thread is the ridiculous polarisation of American politics into two camps - US vs THEM - with no appreciation for the middle ground. I am not picking sides because I'm sure both sides have some valid arguments that need to be addressed in any compromise. This political polarisation happens everywhere, but in America it seems to be 1000 times more virulent, and it also seems to be tearing your nation apart. Who or what is ever going to bridge the gap and bring the two sides together to find a positive outcome?

[boutons_deux]

"most of us in the middle"

... are being forced down to poor by the rich.

[jack sommerset]

"most of us in the middle"

... are being forced down to poor by the rich.

You are fucked up.:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Those dumbfucks are planted there to stir up shit & give the Republicans & Tea Party a bad name. Fuck the sleazy dems...what part of " We don't want your fucking socialized medicine" do you not understand?
That's my belief as well. Liberal activists have done such stunts before, why not now?

[Crookshanks]

I'm sick to my stomach thinking this abomination of a bill is about to pass. The only silver lining is maybe all you idiots on this forum will see the light when it totally and completely screws up our healthcare system and bankrupts this country.

This is NOT about healthcare reform - this is about power and control. The idiot dems don't give a flying f_ _k about ANY of you - they just want the power to control your life. Congratulations to all you imbeciles that helped elect the arrogant, narcissistic Socialist in Chief. Bend over - the boy king is screwing all of you - hope you enjoy it.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm sick to my stomach thinking this abomination of a bill is about to pass. The only silver lining is maybe all you idiots on this forum will see the light when it totally and completely screws up our healthcare system and bankrupts this country.

This is NOT about healthcare reform - this is about power and control. The idiot dems don't give a flying f_ _k about ANY of you - they just want the power to control your life. Congratulations to all you imbeciles that helped elect the arrogant, narcissistic Socialist in Chief. Bend over - the boy king is screwing all of you - hope you enjoy it.

I second that observation.

[jack sommerset]

I read a "triva" fact that 45,000 peeps die every year because they do not have insurance. That's not high if true.

[ploto]

Health care insurance is actually affordable if you get a policy that excludes small costs, but pays for larger ones.


I have a master's degree and work for an entity that does not provide health insurance. I have to purchase an individual policy. I pay $2500 per year for a policy with a $5000 deductible that has never paid one penny out.

I also do not think that people get it-- the number of people who do not get treatment because they have no insurance. Sure, if you shoot someone, they will take care of him at the ER, but if he needs a bone marrow transplant, he is out of luck if he has no insurance and no cash.

[Wild Cobra]

I read a "triva" fact that 45,000 peeps die every year because they do not have insurance. That's not high if true.
I wonder what the statistic would be for those who die each year that don't listen to their doctors advice?

I wonder how many of those 45,000 would still die if they did?

I wonder how many people die each year because they have insurance, and get improperly treated?

Anyway, with a death rate varying around 810 per 100,000, I agree. 45,000 per 300,000,000+ is a pretty small rercentage of the seath rate. Since the claim is 30,000,000 uninsures, that's a death rate 150 per 100,000.

Wait a minute...

If the US death rate is 810/100,000, but the uninsured rate is 150/10,000...

Maybe we should all drop our insurance!

[jack sommerset]

I wonder what the statistic would be for those who die each year that don't listen to their doctors advice?

I wonder how many of those 45,000 would still die if they did?

I wonder how many people die each year because they have insurance, and get improperly treated?

Anyway, with a death rate varying around 810 per 100,000, I agree. 45,000 per 300,000,000+ is a pretty small rercentage of the seath rate. Since the claim is 30,000,000 uninsures, that's a death rate 150 per 100,000.

Wait a minute...

If the US death rate is 810/100,000, but the uninsured rate is 150/10,000...

Maybe we should all drop our insurance!

Well, you know it's a HIGH bullshit number but I can live with that. Not a lot of folks.

[jack sommerset]

WC, I read it on a sign that congress woman from Houston brought to the capital. The one that talks on the cell durning town meetings to avoid answering questions. Shelia Jackson. I bet a few hundered actually die because they have no health insurance.

[fraga]

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/jasonfraga/Fail/Foxpublicans.jpg

[Crookshanks]

I just listened to John Boehner give an impassioned plea to not vote against the will of the people. And now that bitch Pelosi is talking about how this bill will be the most wonderful thing to happen to the American people. How I hate that woman. It will be a very happy day indeed when she is no longer Speaker.

I'm so upset about this that I can't even think about the horrible consequences if this bill passes. I just want every person who votes yes to be thrown out of office. And it would be their fit punishment if they had to live under the laws they pass for the rest of us. But of course, THEY get the best healthcare possible, regardless of whether they're in office or not.

November can't come soon enough. I wish a plague on all democrats who vote for this monstrosity!

[George Gervin's Afro]

I just listened to John Boehner give an impassioned plea to not vote against the will of the people. And now that bitch Pelosi is talking about how this bill will be the most wonderful thing to happen to the American people. How I hate that woman. It will be a very happy day indeed when she is no longer Speaker.

I'm so upset about this that I can't even think about the horrible consequences if this bill passes. I just want every person who votes yes to be thrown out of office. And it would be their fit punishment if they had to live under the laws they pass for the rest of us. But of course, THEY get the best healthcare possible, regardless of whether they're in office or not.

November can't come soon enough. I wish a plague on all democrats who vote for this monstrosity!


Don't worry the sun will come up tomorrow

[balli]

I just listened to John Boehner give an impassioned plea to not vote against the will of the people. And now that bitch Pelosi is talking about how this bill will be the most wonderful thing to happen to the American people. How I hate that woman. It will be a very happy day indeed when she is no longer Speaker.

I'm so upset about this that I can't even think about the horrible consequences if this bill passes. I just want every person who votes yes to be thrown out of office. And it would be their fit punishment if they had to live under the laws they pass for the rest of us. But of course, THEY get the best healthcare possible, regardless of whether they're in office or not.

November can't come soon enough. I wish a plague on all democrats who vote for this monstrosity!

Bitch, you're so fucking dumb. Off yourself if you're so upset, thereby saving the rest of us the the trouble of having to call a piece of human shit like yourself, an American.

[Crookshanks]

Don't worry the sun will come up tomorrow

Yes - and God is still on His throne. Healthcare just passed - 219/210. But the democrats WILL pay a heavy price for this - and so will America.

Here's a quote to leave you with: "This is a nation being led by the President in all-out rebellion to God and His Word. Instead of trying to force Jesus to follow him, President Obama should start following Jesus!"

[Crookshanks]

Bitch, you're so fucking dumb. Off yourself if you're so upset, thereby saving the rest of us the the trouble of having to call a piece of human shit like yourself, an American.
I wish I could meet you - you despicable pile of steaming crap. I'd punch you so hard in your ugly face, and then kick you in the crotch. I'd say nuts - but I don't think you have any. I really hate you -- you are a disgrace.

[balli]

lol cunt, lofl.

[boutons_deux]

"then kick you in the crotch"

Hey, Crooky honey, "what would Jesus do?"

GFY, Bible-thumper.

This is a very Christ-like humanitarian bill will provide care for the poor and forsaken, not that fake "Christian" like you gives a shit about them.

[ploto]

Here's a quote to leave you with: "This is a nation being led by the President in all-out rebellion to God and His Word."

Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

Naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me."

[TheProfessor]

Wow, Crookshanks going off the rails :lol

Speaking of scum, the search is on for whoever yelled "baby killer" at Stupak.

[Spurminator]

Crookshanks, for your own well-being I seriously suggest you take a few weeks off from paying any attention to current events and politics. It would do you some good. You have no idea how ridiculous your apocalyptic ramblings sound because you're far too caught up in this bullshit.

[Stringer_Bell]

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/jasonfraga/Fail/Foxpublicans.jpg

This has been covered before. See, those are obviously Liberal activist trolls. 98% of Tea Party Fox Publicans know that "niggar" is the wrong spelling. Don't believe me? Give them an IQ test!

lol @ people just wanting the democrats voted out of office in November over a healthcare bill that affects your wallets, instead of when representatives make cowardly decisions that affect stuff other than money. just get rid of everyone weeeeeeeeee!!!!! (no joke, get rid of them all)

[Mr. Peabody]

Here's a quote to leave you with: "This is a nation being led by the President in all-out rebellion to God and His Word. Instead of trying to force Jesus to follow him, President Obama should start following Jesus!"

WTF? So health care reform is against God? Does God own an HMO?

[whottt]

"most of us in the middle"

... are being forced down to poor by the rich.

You're an idiot if you think the rich are going to foot this healthcare bill. It's the middle class that are going to foot it.

Here is a universal truth for you, rich people don't get rich by being unselfish with their money. The people that make the laws and pass the bills are the rich. The people that run the health care industry are the rich. The people that run the insurance companies are the rich. The people that set the prices are the rich. This shit is not going to make health care cheaper, it's going to make the rich richer. Richer and more powerful than they have ever been before.


You are the fucking pawn of the rich...

And I'm sorry but no one has a right to have their health care paid for by someone else.

[Mr. Peabody]

I just listened to John Boehner give an impassioned plea to not vote against the will of the people. And now that bitch Pelosi is talking about how this bill will be the most wonderful thing to happen to the American people. How I hate that woman. It will be a very happy day indeed when she is no longer Speaker.

I'm so upset about this that I can't even think about the horrible consequences if this bill passes. I just want every person who votes yes to be thrown out of office. And it would be their fit punishment if they had to live under the laws they pass for the rest of us. But of course, THEY get the best healthcare possible, regardless of whether they're in office or not.

November can't come soon enough. I wish a plague on all democrats who vote for this monstrosity!

Fuck John Boehner and his impassioned plea. His party had six years in power to do something on health care. They didn't do shit. Now they allegedly have all these great ideas. Boehner and Co. could have attempted to pass their version of reform years ago and maybe today's vote wouldn't have been necessary. They didn't do a thing until it became clear that this administration put health care as a priority and Boehner hedged his bets on the bill's defeat. He was wrong.

[boutons_deux]

"John Boehner give an impassioned plea to not vote against the will of the people"

Holy fucking shit, talk about sticking your foot, or something, in your mouth.

Boner argued hard and loud last week to ABA for their lobbyists to keep fighting ALL regulation of the banks, Wall St, financial sector, consumer protection agency.

THAT's what Boner thinks is the "will of the people"? :lol :lol

[florige]

This has been covered before. See, those are obviously Liberal activist trolls. 98% of Tea Party Fox Publicans know that "niggar" is the wrong spelling. Don't believe me? Give them an IQ test!

lol @ people just wanting the democrats voted out of office in November over a healthcare bill that affects your wallets, instead of when representatives make cowardly decisions that affect stuff other than money. just get rid of everyone weeeeeeeeee!!!!! (no joke, get rid of them all)

Repubs are worse than spoiled kids geeeeeez! When they dont get their way they rant and start with the name calling. Some of them anyway.

[Shastafarian]

Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

Naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me."

Holy Ownage.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're an idiot if you think the rich are going to foot this healthcare bill. It's the middle class that are going to foot it.

Here is a universal truth for you, rich people don't get rich by being unselfish with their money. The people that make the laws and pass the bills are the rich. The people that run the health care industry are the rich. The people that run the insurance companies are the rich. The people that set the prices are the rich. This shit is not going to make health care cheaper, it's going to make the rich richer. Richer and more powerful than they have ever been before.


You are the fucking pawn of the rich...

And I'm sorry but no one has a right to have their health care paid for by someone else.

Actually dipshit its the males 18-30 of which less than half have no health care coverage because they typically don't need it.

Then there are the CBO reports. This statement is just completely naive.

[boutons_deux]

"You're an idiot if you think the rich are going to foot this healthcare bill."

you're an idiot because you're so blinded by your ideological perversions you can't even read.

Without cost control, the corps/rich will continue to suck the middle class wealth out until the middle class is poor. I never said the rich will pay for health care reform. GFY

[Oh, Gee!!]

The Tea Party people are just good folk. I don't see why they get a bad rap.

they're just makin' it rain

[Marcus Bryant]

Without cost control

For what other products and services should we expect "cost control"?

[ElNono]

For what other products and services should we expect "cost control"?

The Postal Service would be one... Constitutionally mandated at that...

[ChumpDumper]

I wonder what the statistic would be for those who die each year that don't listen to their doctors advice?

I wonder how many of those 45,000 would still die if they did?

I wonder how many people die each year because they have insurance, and get improperly treated?

Anyway, with a death rate varying around 810 per 100,000, I agree. 45,000 per 300,000,000+ is a pretty small rercentage of the seath rate. Since the claim is 30,000,000 uninsures, that's a death rate 150 per 100,000.

Wait a minute...

If the US death rate is 810/100,000, but the uninsured rate is 150/10,000...

Maybe we should all drop our insurance!Fuzzy math.


Yes - and God is still on His throne. Healthcare just passed - 219/210. But the democrats WILL pay a heavy price for this - and so will America.

Here's a quote to leave you with: "This is a nation being led by the President in all-out rebellion to God and His Word. Instead of trying to force Jesus to follow him, President Obama should start following Jesus!"Jesus would heal everyone for free, wouldn't he?

Apparently that is a quote from this site:

http://raptureready.com/soap/keller12.html

Do you believe in the Rapture, Crookshanks?

[boutons_deux]

A few weeks off won't cure Crook-honey's magical thinking, her inane, hypocritical Bible-thumping, her apocalyptic fantasies if she doesn't get her magical ways.

[Mr. Peabody]

Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

Naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me."

Jesus never said, "I don't want my taxes paying for someone else's health care."?

[Crookshanks]

Fuzzy math.

Jesus would heal everyone for free, wouldn't he?

Apparently that is a quote from this site:

http://raptureready.com/soap/keller12.html

Do you believe in the Rapture, Crookshanks?

Jesus didn't heal everyone. And yes, that quote is from raptureready.com. I'm impressed you went to so much trouble to find it - especially from a website espousing the rapture. Yes, I believe in the rapture, and I also believe that what Obama and the libs are doing to America is bringing us that much closer.

[Spurminator]

Then you should be happy. Turn off Fox News and Rush, close your internet browser and go enjoy what's left of this God-given life before you're whisked away with the other Chosen to experience the Reward of Heaven.

[ChumpDumper]

Jesus didn't heal everyone.So he didn't want to heal everyone? Just a few people to show off?

Seems a bit capricious at best. He comes of as kind of a dick.


And yes, that quote is from raptureready.com. I'm impressed you went to so much trouble to find it - especially from a website espousing the rapture. Yes, I believe in the rapture, and I also believe that what Obama and the libs are doing to America is bringing us that much closer.Yeah, pretty much every generation thinks they're the ones that are going to go through it. I love how people like you try to tie your politics to it.

Why wouldn't you want the ratpure to happen as soon as possible?

[Spurminator]

It's just interesting to me that so many people's faith leads them to believe this kind of thing will lead to some sort of cataclysmic disaster. My faith leads me to believe that God will provide, whatever the circumstances, that I'll be okay and even though life will be a challenge at times, I can have comfort in the knowledge that I have eternal salvation in store for me after this life.

And if I'm wrong it'll all just be a black oblivion or eternal dream state.

Either way, I figure letting stress make me miserable is probably worse for my health than any form of socialized healthcare.

[baseline bum]

So he didn't want to heal everyone? Just a few people to show off?

Seems a bit capricious at best. He comes of as kind of a dick.


AK7gI5lMB7M

[DarkReign]

This political polarisation happens everywhere, but in America it seems to be 1000 times more virulent, and it also seems to be tearing your nation apart. Who or what is ever going to bridge the gap and bring the two sides together to find a positive outcome?

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2008/12/23-End/civil_war_soldiers.jpg

About it.

[ploto]

It's just interesting to me that so many people's faith leads them to believe this kind of thing will lead to some sort of cataclysmic disaster.

What I do not get is the egocentric notion that everything in the Book of Revelation focuses on the United States-- apparently the anti-Christ must be the President of the US, and a health care reform bill in the US will bring on the Rapture!!

[Mr. Peabody]

So he didn't want to heal everyone? Just a few people to show off?

Seems a bit capricious at best. He comes of as kind of a dick.


I do think I remember that from the King Rush Edition of the Bible -


And as the sickly child approached Jesus and asked for healing, Jesus said unto him "No handouts. Get a job, commie."

[Yonivore]

Jesus never said, "I don't want my taxes paying for someone else's health care."?
He never said the government should be providing health care either.

Christ preached charity not forced charity.

[Crookshanks]

In Jesus time, the tax collectors were reviled - mainly because they were alllowed to collect more than Ceasar demanded to line their own pockets. Doesn't sound to different from today.

[jack sommerset]

What's with all the handouts. 32 million handouts. Pay for your own shit. What a freaken joke! I forget, Obama is making 32 million pay for this government take over. Riiiiiigggghhhhtttt. Gotcha. What a joke that one is.

[George Gervin's Afro]

What's with all the handouts. 32 million handouts. Pay for your own shit. What a freaken joke! I forget, Obama is making 32 million pay for this government take over. Riiiiiigggghhhhtttt. Gotcha. What a joke that one is.

spoken like a man of God..if you can't afford it..then die..:toast


you aren't a genious

[mookie2001]

Jesus didn't heal everyone?

rofl only the insured

[Nbadan]

Texas AG, Greg Abbott is the biggest hypocrite...


Our AG, Greg Abbott, is one of the AGs that are filing suit to stop HCR.

Abbott was paralyzed while jogging under a tree that fell. He sued. Got $10 Million. Then fought for tort reform to limit lawsuit awards. He is now supporting the insurance companies.

Link (http://bayareahouston.blogspot.com/2010/03/texas-attorney-general-stands-up-for.html)

:lol at TX wing-nuts hanging their hat on Abbott..

[ChumpDumper]

He never said the government should be providing health care either.

Christ preached charity not forced charity.Did he practice what he preached?

Was it in his power to heal all the sick and fix all other problems?

Why did he do that only for a tiny portion of people?


In Jesus time, the tax collectors were reviled - mainly because they were alllowed to collect more than Ceasar demanded to line their own pockets. Doesn't sound to different from today.Which tax collectors line their own pockets today?

And you never answered this question:
Why wouldn't you want the rapture to happen as soon as possible?

[LnGrrrR]

Jesus didn't heal everyone. And yes, that quote is from raptureready.com. I'm impressed you went to so much trouble to find it - especially from a website espousing the rapture. Yes, I believe in the rapture, and I also believe that what Obama and the libs are doing to America is bringing us that much closer.

If it makes you feel better, you've got company Crookshanks. People have thought the end of the world was near since... well, since the beginning of the world.

[whottt]

And if I'm wrong it'll all just be a black oblivion or eternal dream state.


If you're going to look at it in terms of oblivion...oblivion isn't really that oblivious. I mean...if that is where we go, then that is also where we came from, oblivion, and were for the other 10 billion years of the Universe's existence.

i personally am not particularly bothered when I'm not conscious, so I figure I can live with it. I wasn't really conscious at the beginning of life...didn't bother me much then either. Had an entirely different consciousness in the embryonic stage, don't remember...didn't seem to suck though. Etc. Seems like as you elevate to higher consciousness you forget your lower conciousnesses, so no matter what does come next, we aren't going to retain this same consciousness.

I have to admit one thing....the christian stance on death is pretty contradictory, on the one hand it's supposed to be way better than this current world is, on the other hand it's something that should be avoided, feared, put off for as long as possible, judged as the worst crime and meted out as the ultimate punishment. Completely contradictory. But at the same time...it's supposed to make you feel better so it does make sense in it's way.


I do think that is one thing that many current liberals are less self decieved about than the conservatives...I mean at least the athiests fear death because it is the end based on their belief system...the christians evidentally fear it because it is the best thing that can happen to them.

[LnGrrrR]

I mean at least the athiests fear death because it is the end based on their belief system...the christians evidentally fear it because it is the best thing that can happen to them.

I'd like to state that I know of no rigid "belief system" that atheists hold, other than a shared lack of belief in a God. There's no other official structure, no set of shared beliefs or culture. Most atheists DO tend to believe some things (evolution, for one) but it's not a prereq or anything.

As an atheist, I can't say I "fear" Death, but I sure plan on holding it off for as long as possible!

[EmptyMan]

I'm hoping the control freak eco-fascists try to cram climatewank down America's throat.

[boutons_deux]

"32 million handouts"

You Lie

Do you wrongies and Repugs have any other than Dishonesty Is Our Only Policy? :lol

[Barry O'Bama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6zM5ldO35A&feature=related

[SAGambler]

"then I am a racist"

... there has been no doubt about that for years. :lol

The teabaggers are of the same extremist loser, racist, hate-spewing ilk as Beckkk, Limbaugh, all the right-wing hate media, etc, etc.


So basically anyone that doesn't agree with your ideas is a....RASCIST?

Yep, sounds just like all the liberals. Either agree with them or have it shoved down your throat when they have a majority in the House and a back room deal making, arm twisting, blackmailing President to lead them.

[fraga]

TEA PARTY FOX PUBLICANS....they don't get any lamer than that...

[florige]

Jesus didn't heal everyone?

rofl only the insured




:lmao