Pop on Hill: "I want him to be Avery."

[duncan228]

Another A.J.?

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has been seeking a vocal leader, much like he had with fiery former guard Avery Johnson back in the good old days.

Mild-mannered Tim Duncan certainly doesn't fit the role, but Manu Ginobili has taken on more vocal leadership since he's been starting. Popovich thinks George Hill has some Avery in him.

"I want him to take more control," said Popovich of Hill. "I want him to be telling people where the hell to go on the court. I want him to tell me where the hell to go. I want him to start taking over. I want him to be Avery."

Tom Enlund
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/88738262.html

[TIMMYD!]

What? I don't think he said that. Unless Pop was looking at the fonder memories of AJ.

I think this was already on another article.

[DynastyBuilder]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/quotes_100312.html

On George Hill's play: "I want him to be more aggressive, I want him to take more control, I want him to be telling people where the hell to go on the court, I want him to tell me where the hell to go, and I want him to start taking over. I want him to be Avery [Johnson]. I realize it will take time, but that is what I want."

[dbestpro]

Senile - Pop can't remember what rotation he made 5 minutes ago, but he sure can remember players from his ancient past.

[duncan228]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/quotes_100312.html

Thanks. I went as far back as the Clippers game where he let Hill 'coach'. I guess I should have gone back another game. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Does that mean he should attack Blair in the showers?

[lennyalderette]

"i want pop to be more like pop i want him to have a hell of a lineup again i want him to be smarter about his trading and releasing, i gues what im saying is i want himt to be like poppovich out there"

[024]

i thought pop said parker was his avery. thinking about trading parker?

[Indazone]

yeah like the Veterans on the squad will let some noob tell them where to go. lol

[Kori Ellis]

i thought pop said parker was his avery. thinking about trading parker?

Pop just wants everyone to be more like Avery :lol

[jimo2305]

are you sure he meant avery johnson and not william avery?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/971/slideshow_97167/display_image.jpg

[greyforest]

Pop just wants everyone to be more like Avery :lol

i think its avery-esque PGs he wants, in order to fulfill the command and playcalling role

[SenorSpur]

Pop is a damn fool. He's always looking for the next, whatever. The next Robert Horry. The next Bruce Bowen. And he'll play guys out of position if it satisifies his quest. Once again, Pop overrates a player who he has had a hard-on for. Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel.

Screw that. George Hill will NEVER be Avery. He's got way too much talent and not enough mouth and ego.

[Sean Cagney]

Avery could not shoot a three to save his fukkin life, I hope he is not the next Avery but FAR BETTER!!!!!!!!! He can be far better, he already is better at 23 or so talent wise, he can be far better IMO.

[poop]

Screw that. George Hill will NEVER be Avery. He's got way too much talent and not enough mouth and ego.

haha exactly!!!!
i guess Hill will have to start playing shittier from now on.

its a joke that Averys jersey was retired.

Hill is already surpassed him in everthing but mouth size and funny accent.

[Xevious]

"Do they sell shrimp at your bank?"

[taps]

"Do they sell shrimp at your bank?"

lol. I've actually been looking for some fried okra.

"You GOTTA have fried okra!"

[mingus]

some guys are just naturally vocal. i don't think Hill is one of them. i could be wrong.

i like the way Manu has taken the role of being the vocal leader. he's stepped in in place of Bruce, who filled the role in the past. you need that. people always brag about Tim Duncan's calm demeanor and how he lets his play do the talking. that's all great, but you gotta have a vocal leader on the team, and sadly Bruce was never given enough credit for being that guy. it was all about Duncan and his quiet leadership (i'm not saying he's at fault for anything; moreso the media for overplaying that, and underplaying Bruce's role as vocal leader) i said earlier on in the season it's what the Spurs were lacking, among other things, of course. i didn't think anyone would step up, but Manu has really looked to be that guy. i don't know if he's always been like that, or if he subdued himself in prior years and let Bruce do the talking; but it's been great to see. the Spurs need it.

[team-work]

The task assigned by Pop to Hill is no easy one.

Being the floor general orchestating the offense is one thing, but being the "vocal leader" can be different. For example, if you ask Hill, a second year player, to criticize some poor plays by e.g. RJ, Dice or Mason on court, I think it would not be beneficial to the team's chemistry. They might even have fallen out of the playoff race if Hill did that often. Unfortunately, sometimes these 2 roles are somewhat indistinguishable.

I hope Pop only want Hill to take more of the former role. Even Manu started to take the latter role only after his game has improved recently.

[BillMc]

some guys are just naturally vocal. i don't think Hill is one of them. i could be wrong.

i like the way Manu has taken the role of being the vocal leader. he's stepped in in place of Bruce, who filled the role in the past. you need that. people always brag about Tim Duncan's calm demeanor and how he lets his play do the talking. that's all great, but you gotta have a vocal leader on the team, and sadly Bruce was never given enough credit for being that guy. it was all about Duncan and his quiet leadership (i'm not saying he's at fault for anything; moreso the media for overplaying that, and underplaying Bruce's role as vocal leader) i said earlier on in the season it's what the Spurs were lacking, among other things, of course. i didn't think anyone would step up, but Manu has really looked to be that guy. i don't know if he's always been like that, or if he subdued himself in prior years and let Bruce do the talking; but it's been great to see. the Spurs need it.

This.

That said, I think Pop is just trying to help Hill grow into a leadership role. If he starts saying things, even a little, it will continue the change in perception of Hill from a newbie to a veteran. Hill will never be a barker like AJ was, but its time he assumed a role as an equal. Props to Pop for wanting to make Hill the best all-around team player he can be.

You can tell Pop's intents with the younger guys: Buildup Hill's sense of self-worth and keep Blair's in perspective and professional. It's all his read of their psyches. He won't let them develop the bad habits other older pros have.

[easy7]

He wants him to go coach the Mavs, get the best record in the NBA and then lose to an 8th seed. :hat

[thispego]

Pop is a damn fool. He's always looking for the next, whatever. The next Robert Horry. The next Bruce Bowen. And he'll play guys out of position if it satisifies his quest. Once again, Pop overrates a player who he has had a hard-on for. Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel.

Screw that. George Hill will NEVER be Avery. He's got way too much talent and not enough mouth and ego.

:lmao LMFAO at the Vaughn hate. {note to posters : you've lost what little credibility you have on this forum when you trash NBA champion Jacque Vaughn}

[jjktkk]

Pop is a damn fool. He's always looking for the next, whatever. The next Robert Horry. The next Bruce Bowen. And he'll play guys out of position if it satisifies his quest. Once again, Pop overrates a player who he has had a hard-on for. Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel.

Screw that. George Hill will NEVER be Avery. He's got way too much talent and not enough mouth and ego.

So you'd rather Pop not try find the next Horry, or Bowen? Since you don't want the "damn fool" looking for replacements for Horry, and Bowen, you must be satisfied with Bogans and Bonner as adaquate replacements for Horry and Bowen. And I disagree with you that Pop overated Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel. None of these players were signed huge amounts of money, and other than Avery, none of these players you mentioned were expected to start, nor be anything other than role players. Some like Avery, and Finley, were productive role players, Vaughn was a good 3rd pg, a guy whose always been a solid pro, and who could teach the younger guys how to be a professional. Van Exel didn't work out, but Van Exel, like most of the veterans Pop has signed over years never broke the bank to sign them, and is a great, cost-effective way to sign older players who can still contribute to a team.

[Flux451]

He needs to be vocal. He is the PG.

[exstatic]

Yeah, when he's bringing the ball up, he does need to be able to quickly set up the play, so that there are more options before the end of the shot clock. Sometimes, that means you need to bark at a team mate to get them into the correct position.

[DPG21920]

I too would like Hill to hit a game winner in the finals.

[Russ]

Re: Pop on Hill: "I want him to be Avery."

Honey, I shrunk the point guard . . .

[SenorSpur]

So you'd rather Pop not try find the next Horry, or Bowen? Since you don't want the "damn fool" looking for replacements for Horry, and Bowen, you must be satisfied with Bogans and Bonner as adaquate replacements for Horry and Bowen. And I disagree with you that Pop overated Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel. None of these players were signed huge amounts of money, and other than Avery, none of these players you mentioned were expected to start, nor be anything other than role players. Some like Avery, and Finley, were productive role players, Vaughn was a good 3rd pg, a guy whose always been a solid pro, and who could teach the younger guys how to be a professional. Van Exel didn't work out, but Van Exel, like most of the veterans Pop has signed over years never broke the bank to sign them, and is a great, cost-effective way to sign older players who can still contribute to a team.

You're missing the point. Horry was argubly one of the greatest role players and clutch shooters in NBA postseason history. The likelihood of any player filling such a void for the Spurs is next to impossible. The same goes for Bowen. He was one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history. Finding another elite defensive stopper of his ability and skill is unlikely. For that matter, it could take a trio of players just to equalize the effects that Bowen had on the defensive end. In attempting to replace both Horry and Bowen, simply plugging in Bonner and Bogans and expecting those kinds of results is short-sighted, at best.

All that said, there is no harm in a coach seeking to replace the skills of stellar players that have come through the organization. It's the public declaration that some new guy is "the next whoever" is what I have an issue with. For Pop to continue cannonizing Avery Johnson is assinine.

First off, Avery WAS a very good leader, but he was a horribly mediocre point guard. In fact, he was a better leader than player. His will and determination kept him in the NBA for so long and he deserves credit for that. However, let's not pretend that Avery was in the category of a John Stockton or a Magic Johnson. Hell, let's not even compare him to Parker, for that matter. We could argue all day whether or not AJ's jersey warranted retirement, but that's another debate.

Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed. I don't give a shit what either did during his career. I only care about what they did or didn't do, could or couldn't do by the time they arrived here. In the case of NVE, by the time Pop convinced himself he just had to acquire him, the guy was done. I watched the two years that proceeded him coming to the Spurs in 2006 and I can tell you that age, injuries, and poor conditioning robbed him of the skills that made him the feared offensive PG that he was during the Mavs 2003 playoff run. Three years removed from that scintillating playoff run, he was finished. In fact, he talked openly about retiring the season before Pop fell in love with him.

As for Vaughn, he also probably hung around a year or two longer than he should have. Sure, he was a good, solid player in his day. Again, I don't care about that. In the role as exclusively a 3rd PG for the Spurs, he would've been fine. However, Pop couldn't simply live with that. It was his brilliant idea to make Vaughn a primary backup to Parker during the second half of last year - at the expense of Hill. And don't get me started on the failed Roger Mason, Jr. backup PG experiment of last year.

These are all examples of Pop either inaccurately gauging the abiltiies of an end-of-career veteran, or miscasting a player in a role that exposes his deficiencies. My point is let's not act as though every freaking decision Pop makes deserves the highest of praise. At times, Pop's ego simply wont allow him to admit he's wrong. Perhaps he needs to heed his own motto and "get over himself". And if it is your desire to continue apologizing for him, perhaps you should do the same.

[itzsoweezee]

is any more proof needed that popovich is a senile old man the game has passed by?

[rascal]

Dumb, trying to fit players into roles of other players. Every player brings his own unique skills and Pop needs to stop trying to compare current players with past players.

A good coach adjusts as his team changes.

[jjktkk]

You're missing the point. Horry was argubly one of the greatest role players and clutch shooters in NBA postseason history. The likelihood of any player filling such a void for the Spurs is next to impossible. The same goes for Bowen. He was one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history. Finding another elite defensive stopper of his ability and skill is unlikely. For that matter, it could take a trio of players just to equalize the effects that Bowen had on the defensive end. In attempting to replace both Horry and Bowen, simply plugging in Bonner and Bogans and expecting those kinds of results is short-sighted, at best.

All that said, there is no harm in a coach seeking to replace the skills of stellar players that have come through the organization. It's the public declaration that some new guy is "the next whoever" is what I have an issue with. For Pop to continue cannonizing Avery Johnson is assinine.

First off, Avery WAS a very good leader, but he was a horribly mediocre point guard. In fact, he was a better leader than player. His will and determination kept him in the NBA for so long and he deserves credit for that. However, let's not pretend that Avery was in the category of a John Stockton or a Magic Johnson. Hell, let's not even compare him to Parker, for that matter. We could argue all day whether or not AJ's jersey warranted retirement, but that's another debate.

Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed. I don't give a shit what either did during his career. I only care about what they did or didn't do, could or couldn't do by the time they arrived here. In the case of NVE, by the time Pop convinced himself he just had to acquire him, the guy was done. I watched the two years that proceeded him coming to the Spurs in 2006 and I can tell you that age, injuries, and poor conditioning robbed him of the skills that made him the feared offensive PG that he was during the Mavs 2003 playoff run. Three years removed from that scintillating playoff run, he was finished. In fact, he talked openly about retiring the season before Pop fell in love with him.

As for Vaughn, he also probably hung around a year or two longer than he should have. Sure, he was a good, solid player in his day. Again, I don't care about that. In the role as exclusively a 3rd PG for the Spurs, he would've been fine. However, Pop couldn't simply live with that. It was his brilliant idea to make Vaughn a primary backup to Parker during the second half of last year - at the expense of Hill. And don't get me started on the failed Roger Mason, Jr. backup PG experiment of last year.

These are all examples of Pop either inaccurately gauging the abiltiies of an end-of-career veteran, or miscasting a player in a role that exposes his deficiencies. My point is let's not act as though every freaking decision Pop makes deserves the highest of praise. At times, Pop's ego simply wont allow him to admit he's wrong. Perhaps he needs to heed his own motto and "get over himself". And if it is your desire to continue apologizing for him, perhaps you should do the same.

No my point is you hate Pop so much it seems to cloud your better judgment. You knit pick over personnel moves he made in the past that were no big deal. Van Excel, Vaughn, were not huge signings, neither player was signed to play an vital, important role while with the Spurs. Pop didn't sign either of these 2 to start. These were veterans players signed for the Minimum. Big fucking deal! They were signed for the same reasons, Horry,Bowen, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie, etc... were signed. You sign these vets. for chump change to see if they have anything left, if they do, great, if not, no big deal. I never said every decision Pop makes is great. He screws up like alot of coaches. You think Pop's the only coach with an ego? Would you feel better when Pop makes a mistake he runs to the media and tells all the Spurs fans, "hey I wanna apologize to all the Spurs fans, especially Senior Spur for the huge mistake I made in signing Nick Van Excel, Jacque Vaughn, and every other over the hill veteran I signed in a attempt to find a guy that has a chance to improve the Spurs. Please forgive me. Good luck waiting for that to happen. Bottom line to me is I find it ludicrous that your knitpicking on personnel moves that didn't amount to jackshit.

[ploto]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?

[jjktkk]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?

Lol, I hope not.

[SenorSpur]

No my point is you hate Pop so much it seems to cloud your better judgment. You knit pick over personnel moves he made in the past that were no big deal. Van Excel, Vaughn, were not huge signings, neither player was signed to play an vital, important role while with the Spurs. Pop didn't sign either of these 2 to start. These were veterans players signed for the Minimum. Big fucking deal! They were signed for the same reasons, Horry,Bowen, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie, etc... were signed. You sign these vets. for chump change to see if they have anything left, if they do, great, if not, no big deal. I never said every decision Pop makes is great. He screws up like alot of coaches. You think Pop's the only coach with an ego? Would you feel better when Pop makes a mistake he runs to the media and tells all the Spurs fans, "hey I wanna apologize to all the Spurs fans, especially Senior Spur for the huge mistake I made in signing Nick Van Excel, Jacque Vaughn, and every other over the hill veteran I signed in a attempt to find a guy that has a chance to improve the Spurs. Please forgive me. Good luck waiting for that to happen. Bottom line to me is I find it ludicrous that your knitpicking on personnel moves that didn't amount to jackshit.
As usual, your over-apologetic, butt-kissing of the GM's decisions is so predictable. You're focused solely on the signings, when it's the overvalued use of those signing that's also in question. You can counterpoint until you're blue in the face. The fact remains the examples I outlined are real. If you find the opinions ludicrious, don't waste your time trying drum up some weak-ass counterpoint.

[Brazil]

Pop is senile

[jjktkk]

As usual, your over-apologetic, butt-kissing of the GM's decisions is so predictable. You're focused solely on the signings, when it's the overvalued use of those signing that's also in question. You can counterpoint until you're blue in the face. The fact remains the examples I outlined are real. If you find the opinions ludicrious, don't waste your time trying drum up some weak-ass counterpoint.

What fact? The fact that your opinion is a fact? No your opinion is just that, an opinion. How can signing players to the vet minimum be overvalued? Its a low cost way to sign players. Signing a player to a max contract, or a paying alot of money to a rookie is overvaluing. And you can call me a butt kisser of Pop, but I'm a little more impressed with Pop's overall body of work than your fantasy GM skills.

[SpurmzKilla]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?


Lol, I hope not.


Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move Dick so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!

[Sean Cagney]

Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move Dick so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!

:nope:nope:nope:rolleyes

[SenorSpur]

What fact? The fact that your opinion is a fact? No your opinion is just that, an opinion. How can signing players to the vet minimum be overvalued? Its a low cost way to sign players. Signing a player to a max contract, or a paying alot of money to a rookie is overvaluing. And you can call me a butt kisser of Pop, but I'm a little more impressed with Pop's overall body of work than your fantasy GM skills.

No one said the strategy of signing low-cost vets was a flawed one. However, it doesn't take a fantasy GM to see when a guy is clearly at the end of the line and a bad fit for a team. Falling in love with the wrong players can be as detrimental as bad draft choices. And for the record, Pop gets loads of credit from many on this board - including me. He's a brilliant coach, strategist and basketball mind. At the same time, as the chief decision-maker for the franchise, there's no question that he's had his share of screw-ups. As such, he is not without cause for criticism. The notion that anyone who dares to say anything against him is a hater is just another example of the deep state of denial from a butt-kissing, Popologist - like you.

[spurs10]

Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move Dick so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!
All right, when you start making perfect sense to me...and scaring me...it's time to go to bed...hope I don't have dreams of TP and Manu in gold jerseys...that would really be a nightmare aaaahhhh.....

[jjktkk]

No one said the strategy of signing low-cost vets was a flawed one. But you did. [QUOTE=SenorSpur;4173300] Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed.

So let me see if I get this straight. You yourself said that Pop is a "brilliant coach, strategist, and basketball mind". I agree and usually will call someone out when they go off on a tirade and say Pop's an idiot, etc.... Sure Pop has his screwups, just like any other coach. Theres no perfect coach out there that I'm aware off. So it seems we agree on Pop, but you sure seem to get your feathers ruffled if I question some of your replys, and start calling me Pop sucker, buttkisser, etc... Well I tried, but you contradict yourself and don't make a whole hell of alot of sense on this post.

[G-Dawgg]

Sounds like he's trying to make George the Spurs new Quarterback.. that would lead me to think that Parker would become potential trade bait in the offseason. My guess would be if Splitter comes to the Spurs then Parker stays put, but if he doesn't come it wouldn't surprise me if Parker gets traded for somebody to help in the front-court.....-just a thought.

[BillMc]

He needs to be vocal. He is the PG.

This.

[SenorSpur]

But you did. [QUOTE=SenorSpur;4173300] Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed.

So let me see if I get this straight. You yourself said that Pop is a "brilliant coach, strategist, and basketball mind". I agree and usually will call someone out when they go off on a tirade and say Pop's an idiot, etc.... Sure Pop has his screwups, just like any other coach. Theres no perfect coach out there that I'm aware off. So it seems we agree on Pop, but you sure seem to get your feathers ruffled if I question some of your replys, and start calling me Pop sucker, buttkisser, etc... Well I tried, but you contradict yourself and don't make a whole hell of alot of sense on this post.

On the contrary, it is your over-rationalization and need to constantly apologize for Pop's screwups that doesn't make any sense. As you know, Pop is more than just a coach, he is the President and chief decision-maker of the franchise. Pop is probably the closet thing to Red Auerbach that the NBA has ever seen. As such, when making personnel decisions for the franchise, it's sometimes necessary for him to separate Pop the coach, from Pop the executive. I've merely pointed out several instances where he's overestimated or misgauged the talent level of certain players that he acquired. Again, my issue with him is that too often he's fallen in love with players who were past their primes or even cast guys in roles that didn't best acceuntuate their talents. Heck, there are personnel issues that befall this current roster. However, that is another story.

The point is that just because someone calls him on the carpet for his screwups, and there have been several, doesn't mean they're a hater. It just means that, as a fan, we're taking issue with some of his decisions. No matter how much you want to claim "it's no big deal", it actually is - especially when your championship window is close to its expiration date.

[lefty]

If Pop wants Hill to be like Avery, we are seriously fucked :bang

Timvp was right about Pop sucking at developing young PG's

[bigdog]

I like that George doesn't dribble the ball all over the court til there's only 4 seconds left to make a decision like Tony.