Messi=GOD

[BadOdor]

Man, argies taking homerism to new levels.

First manu>dirk, and now it's "messi had a good tournment"?:lol

lol 0 goals

lol choking

lol owned by Germany

lol Argies

[DAF86]

I didn't know Jeff Bradley was Argentinian.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/columnist/bradley_jeff/id/5342241/ce/us/argentina-lionel-messi-best-player-world-cup?cc=3888&ver=global

[ALVAREZ6]

why u tryin to skew statistics to make it look like messi had a good run in the wc?

do you really think fanatics/betters give a fck? what matters is putting the ball into the net and gettin the win


Easier said than done. There are 11 players on a soccer team, not 1, moron.

Messi did not lose, nor did Tevez, or Mascherano. Argentina lost.


You'd be a great MMA or boxing analyst though, as it's quite easy to point out individual winners, but you and many others should keep your mouth shut when it comes to team sports.

[TDMVPDPOY]

excuses is all i see...man the fck up ur player didnt produce when it was needed

as for ronaldo was basically a one man team who choked...

rooney didnt even get into all the games his been into so he choked also

as for kaka, he didnt do much....

[ALVAREZ6]

excuses is all i see...man the fck up ur player didnt produce when it was needed

as for ronaldo was basically a one man team who choked...

rooney didnt even get into all the games his been into so he choked also

as for kaka, he didnt do much....

Man up? I have no problem admitting Argentina did not do as well as it should with the players it has, I can admit defeat with no problem. I'm simply backing what I believe, and what 99% of people who actually watched the games and know anything about anything believe. On the other hand, you don't know shit about shit.

[ALVAREZ6]

I didn't know Jeff Bradley was Argentinian.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/columnist/bradley_jeff/id/5342241/ce/us/argentina-lionel-messi-best-player-world-cup?cc=3888&ver=global

"And for me, despite the fact that Messi has yet to score a goal in this World Cup, he is clearly the best player I have seen.

No player occupies as much of the opposition's attention -- clearing space for his teammates and requiring two or three defenders to try to shut him down -- as Messi. No player creates as many dangerous situations for his teammates per 90 minutes as Messi."


"Messi is the best player in the world," Germany's Sami Khedira says. "You can't shut him down for the entire match. You have to try to contain him with a collective effort."
Collective effort...AKA the attention of several defenders at once, hence creating opportunities and spaces for others to score.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Man up? I have no problem admitting Argentina did not do as well as it should with the players it has, I can admit defeat with no problem. I'm simply backing what I believe, and what 99% of people who actually watched the games and know anything about anything believe. On the other hand, you don't know shit about shit.

messi choked man just admit it, when ur firing on all cylinders and non of ur attempts hit the goal is just plain shit...

so when u win games messi gets the credit, when u lose, u blame others? this reminds me of kobe

[ALVAREZ6]

messi choked man just admit it, when ur firing on all cylinders and non of ur attempts hit the goal is just plain shit...

so when u win games messi gets the credit, when u lose, u blame others? this reminds me of kobe

I'm not blaming others, not blaming any individual player...see my posts in the "where have the argentines gone" or w/e that thread is titled. I blame the team's style of play. On paper Argentina has more stars than Germany, Germany however plays a spectacular brand of football. I will gladly admit that Argentina plays a stupid game compared to what they could be. I have no reason not to, naturally I hope for them to eventually change in that regard, because they won't win a world cup again playing like they do. But Messi did not choke. That is all.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I'm not blaming others, not blaming any individual player...see my posts in the "where have the argentines gone" or w/e that thread is titled. I blame the team's style of play. On paper Argentina has more stars than Germany, Germany however plays a spectacular brand of football. I will gladly admit that Argentina plays a stupid game compared to what they could be. I have no reason not to, naturally I hope for them to eventually change in that regard, because they won't win a world cup again playing like they do. But Messi did not choke. That is all.

germany :( most of there players either play on bayern munich/leverkusen... :( + they had usage of the new ball for the whole season...they already had the chemistry heading into the tourney...same cant be said for other teams if u have so many players playin all over the world in different leagues not enough time to mesh together....

[Zak]

germany :( most of there players either play on bayern munich/leverkusen... :( + they had usage of the new ball for the whole season...they already had the chemistry heading into the tourney...same cant be said for other teams if u have so many players playin all over the world in different leagues not enough time to mesh together....

Of the starting 11 of the game against Argentina exactly none plays for Leverkusen. 4 players from Bayern Munich, 2 from Werder Bremen and 1 from Schalke, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cologne and Berlin each.

[sefant77]

germany :( most of there players either play on bayern munich/leverkusen... :( + they had usage of the new ball for the whole season...they already had the chemistry heading into the tourney...same cant be said for other teams if u have so many players playin all over the world in different leagues not enough time to mesh together....

Quality information since the ball was introcuded just in december 2009.

And btw everyone and every team could get them and play with them and other countries/leagues did it too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Quality information since the ball was introcuded just in december 2009.

And btw everyone and every team could get them and play with them and other countries/leagues did it too.

each different league uses balls from their sponsors

[sefant77]

each different league uses balls from their sponsors

Bundesliga has no official ball sponsor, same with france or spain.

Just PL sold their asses to Nike, same with the England FA to Umbro.

Not the fault or problem of other countries that didnt sell their asses.

[DAF86]

messi choked man just admit it, when ur firing on all cylinders and non of ur attempts hit the goal is just plain shit...

so when u win games messi gets the credit, when u lose, u blame others? this reminds me of kobe

Why do you have to blame your star player in defeat even if he was one of the few players on your team that didn't completely suck on that loss? Mascherano and Messi were the only Argies that played decent against Germany, why should we blame them? And Messi played well during the whole tournament, he didn't choke. If you want to see star players that choked in this WC look at Ronaldo and Rooney.

[Brazil]

Why do you have to blame your star player in defeat even if he was one of the few players on your team that didn't completely suck on that loss? Mascherano and Messi were the only Argies that played decent against Germany, why should we blame them? And Messi played well during the whole tournament, he didn't choke. If you want to see star players that choked in this WC look at Ronaldo and Rooney.

I agree Messi played a very solid WC, he is not the guy to blame, after this WC he is still one of the best player. What we can say now for sure is that he is no maradona.

[ElNono]

I agree Messi played a very solid WC, he is not the guy to blame, after this WC he is still one of the best player. What we can say now for sure is that he is no maradona.

Maradona sucked in 1982 and turned into the Maradona you're talking about in 1986. Messi is 23. He's got plenty of time to show what he's got. That said, I agree he's going to have to lift a WC to even be in the discussion.

[Brazil]

Maradona sucked in 1982 and turned into the Maradona you're talking about in 1986. Messi is 23. He's got plenty of time to show what he's got. That said, I agree he's going to have to lift a WC to even be in the discussion.

I agree, Messi is still young, I was just trying to tease a little argies.


on a side note, lol France

[ElNono]

I agree, Messi is still young, I was just trying to tease a little argies.

on a side note, lol France

I prefer lol Italy :toast

[Brazil]

I prefer lol Italy :toast

and I hope badly a future lol Spain tbh !

[pookenstein]

and I hope badly a future lol Spain tbh !

Don't we all?:lol:toast

[DAF86]

QGZ3ZPAtzU0

Messi scored a hat-trick in the 2nd match of the "Supercopa" and gave Barcelona the title. Messi has now 7 goals in 5 finals played with Barcelona.

SAtown, sorry if this post offended you.

[urunobili]

after watching DAF's video it reinforced my theory that 35% of Messi's magic is Xavi Hernandez :)

[Sense]

I really don't understand that highlight reel or whatever it was....

It kept focusing on passes... bad passes... and misses?

wtf

Oh yeah and how can Messi not score with those amazing passes he gets?

I mean all of his goals came from the great passes, although I will give him credit on the second one

[SAtown]

QGZ3ZPAtzU0

Messi scored a hat-trick in the 2nd match of the "Supercopa" and gave Barcelona the title. Messi has now 7 goals in 5 finals played with Barcelona.

SAtown, sorry if this post offended you.

LOL obsessed with me. Sorry you've been waiting all summer to post something positive about him. I hope you at least went outside a couple of times

[sonic21]

QGZ3ZPAtzU0


Messi scored a hat-trick in the 2nd match of the "Supercopa" and gave Barcelona the title. Messi has now 7 goals in 5 finals played with Barcelona.

SAtown, sorry if this post offended you.

Xavi is one hell of a player :tu

[DAF86]

I really don't understand that highlight reel or whatever it was....

It kept focusing on passes... bad passes... and misses?

wtf

Oh yeah and how can Messi not score with those amazing passes he gets?

I mean all of his goals came from the great passes, although I will give him credit on the second one

It's just a video of almost all the balls Messi touched in the game.

[DAF86]

LOL obsessed with me. Sorry you've been waiting all summer to post something positive about him. I hope you at least went outside a couple of times

I didn't even know who you were before your weird rant on this thread.

P/S: I just had to wait 'till he played an official match again.

[DAF86]

Xavi is one hell of a player :tu

Yes, he is.

[lefty]

And the best player in the world is........


nobody !!!!!!!!!!!!!



Today's soccer sucks big time

Messi or CR would have been 3rd options on their NT a long time ago

[DAF86]

And the best player in the world is........


nobody !!!!!!!!!!!!!



Today's soccer sucks big time

Messi or CR would have been 3rd options on their NT a long time ago

Today's football is a lot harder than yesterday's football (at least for offensive players), as players get bigger, faster, stronger and tactics get more pragmatic is a lot more difficult for the offensive football to shine that's why we gotta apreciate a lot more what players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc and teams like Barcelona and Spain are doing in such a difficult era.

Games decades ago had a goal average of around 5 per game, that's not because players were better back then, it's because of the way it was played.

[lefty]

Today's football is a lot harder than yesterday's football (at least for offensive players), as players get bigger, faster, stronger and tactics get more pragmatic is a lot more difficult for the offensive football to shine that's why we gotta apreciate a lot more what players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc and teams like Barcelona and Spain are doing in such a difficult era.

Games decades ago had a goal average of around 5 per game, that's not because players were better back then, it's because of the way it was played.
Today's defenders may be bigger, stronger, but from a technical standpoint, none of them holds a candle next to players such as Baresi, Blanc, Bossis, Costacurta, Danny Blintz, Beckenbauer


Shit those were the days

The bosses :hat

[DAF86]

Today's defenders may be bigger, stronger, but from a technical standpoint, none of them holds a candle next to players such as Baresi, Blanc, Bossis, Costacurta, Danny Blintz, Beckenbauer


Shit those were the days

The bosses :hat

Pique, Alves, Maicon and Lucio (and I'm surely forgetting others) are just as good (if not better) technically as those defenders.

Either way, you're missing the point. Nowadays football is played a lot faster than before, that's why is so difficult to see the players showing all their technic on matches.

[TDMVPDPOY]

defenders back then would injure you if u try to do the same stunt again to embarrass them

[lefty]

Pique, Alves, Maicon and Lucio (and I'm surely forgetting others) are just as good (if not better) technically as those defenders.

Either way, you're missing the point. Nowadays football is played a lot faster than before, that's why is so difficult to see the players showing all their technic on matches.
Guys like Pique, Alves, Maicon have better offensive skills than the dudes I mentioned, no question.

But defensively? not so sure

[Phenomanul]

Guys like Pique, Alves, Maicon have better offensive skills than the dudes I mentioned, no question.

But defensively? not so sure

Alves gambles too much and is quite the hot-head as well... that said, he's probably one of the most intimidating defenders out there despite his 'slender' physique...

In today's game the most complete defender out there is probably Carles Puyol... other than the fact that age is catching up with him, the guy is a nearly flawless defender... Fearless, tactical, strong, tireless, reliable etc... he kind of reminds me of Maldini...

Maicon probably comes in 2nd followed by the pack of everyone else...

As an aside, Pique is slightly overrated as a defender due to his physically imposing size... not saying he's not great... just not elite...

[lefty]

Alves gambles too much and is quite the hot-head as well... that said, he's probably one of the most intimidating defenders out there despite his 'slender' physique...

In today's game the most complete defender out there is probably Carles Puyol... other than the fact that age is catching up with him, the guy is a nearly flawless defender... Fearless, tactical, strong, tireless, reliable etc... he kind of reminds me of Maldini...

Maicon probably comes in 2nd followed by the pack of everyone else...

As an aside, Pique is slightly overrated as a defender due to his physically imposing size... not saying he's not great... just not elite...

I agree on Puyol being the best right now

[DAF86]

As an aside, Pique is slightly overrated as a defender due to his physically imposing size... not saying he's not great... just not elite...

I was talking about his technical abilites, maybe defending he is just good but with the ball he is the most talented center back in the World, dude could easily play as a center forward.

[DAF86]

UuN4mYcOEWM

[mabrignani]

anyone can have a good game when you play the scrub ass teams in la liga, messi didnt do shit in CL2010 or WC2010

[lefty]

anyone can have a good game when you play the scrub ass teams in la liga, messi didnt do shit in CL2010 or WC2010
I agree

La Liga is a 2 headed monster

The rest is shit

[DAF86]

anyone can have a good game when you play the scrub ass teams in la liga, messi didnt do shit in CL2010 or WC2010

Messi was the top scorer of the CL2010 and was among the top 10 players selected to be the World Cup Golden ball even though his team lost in the quarters, Guardiola (Messi's coach but also the coach of Iniesta, Xavi and Villa) said that Messi was the best player of the WC and a lot of people agree.

But you can go ahead and think what you want.

lol Italy, btw.

[DAF86]

gS_VvP1Xoq8

Messi vs Xavi and Iniesta.

Awesome play at the 4:40 mark.

[mabrignani]

Guardiola (Messi's coach but also the coach of Iniesta, Xavi and Villa) said that Messi was the best player of the WC and a lot of people agree.



1st - link?
2nd - who is alot of people, not counting all the messi bandwagoners
3rd - he didnt do shit in WC
4th - messi scored all those gols in group stage against garbage teams

[DAF86]

L3OGBedRDnE

Yes, lots of meaningless group stage goals against garbage teams.

[lefty]

Damn, Messi and Co were really God material today :rollin

[diego]

daf, I hadnt seen the whole arg - spain game, but that highlight vid you posted isnt helping your case at all. he didnt have a bad game, but when half your highlights are weak/late passes and you playing superman with 2 open teammates in the box... thats not god like.

the kid is good, has had better games than that one obviously, and he may well become godlike, but he still has a ways to go

[DAF86]

daf, I hadnt seen the whole arg - spain game, but that highlight vid you posted isnt helping your case at all. he didnt have a bad game, but when half your highlights are weak/late passes and you playing superman with 2 open teammates in the box... thats not god like.

the kid is good, has had better games than that one obviously, and he may well become godlike, but he still has a ways to go

How many times do I need to repeat myself? These aren't highlights, they're just a compilation of almost all the balls he touched in the game, that's what happens when you're the best player in the world, you have people uploading everything you do in a pitch to the net.

I know that you're the typical "Maradona won a WC so he can't do no wrong and I don't care that Riquelme can't play two full games without getting injured I still think he's the best player in the world although he plays in a B league and he never really was anywhere close to beign that" Boca Juniors fan and that's why you tend to underrate Messi but I don't need to help any case, most people already think that Messi is the best player in the World.

[diego]

i was actually going to put, messi is probably the best in the world right now, that doesnt make him godlike or best all time... it just says that right now there arent a lot great teams or players. and looking at most leagues, the CL, and the last WC, that sounds like a pretty accurate statement. Forlan golden boot?? Sorry but thats just sad.

anyways, if its not a highlight, you are telling me messi saw the ball for 5 minutes in a 90 minute game? almost all the balls he touched? so why almost, why not all, why did they include these and not others? you yourself said the play at 4:40 is awesome... yes, it was awesome how he navigated 4 defenders, but was it awesome how he waited unnecessarily for his teammate to be offside before hitting him with the pass?? like i said, he is good, has even better things ahead of him, but he is not the god you are painting him out to be.

you're the typical loser who brings in other things to an argument instead of answering directly. when have i ever said that riquelme is the best in the world? i said he is easily the best argentine freekick specialist, to which your retort was "you are a boca fan". if i'm wrong, who is the better FK specialist? i said maradona made some good changes and that for the most part i liked how he set the team up for the WC, but I said what IMO he did wrong. you didnt answer that either, you just cherry pick and wait for the results to make your criticism.

but if you want to get all bitchy... argentina in 06 with riquelme was a lot closer to beating germany than argentina in 10 with messi, now go write an essay explaining how it was all zanetti and cambiasso (you'll have to include a paragraph on why zanetti's magic didnt work in 98 and 02 and why the team fell apart when cambiasso came in), how the 06 german team was much better because of lehmann and ballack, how klinsmann is a better coach than low and pekerman a better coach than maradona, how playing at home in 06 played against germany because of the pressure and that playing in africa let them play relaxed, etc etc etc.

the irony of all this is, that Im not even looking to fight with you, you are worse than quixote. all i'm saying is that you prop messi up to much. if it helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. For me, he is still only a talented dribbler and part time playmaker. when he is a god, he'll be a full time playmaker.

[DAF86]

i was actually going to put, messi is probably the best in the world right now, that doesnt make him godlike or best all time... it just says that right now there arent a lot great teams or players. and looking at most leagues, the CL, and the last WC, that sounds like a pretty accurate statement. Forlan golden boot?? Sorry but thats just sad.

Find me a post where I said that Messi was the best of all time, and about the thread title is just that: a title. It doesn't mean anything, I don't even bealive in God, it's just a fucking expression.


anyways, if its not a highlight, you are telling me messi saw the ball for 5 minutes in a 90 minute game? almost all the balls he touched? so why almost, why not all, why did they include these and not others? you yourself said the play at 4:40 is awesome... yes, it was awesome how he navigated 4 defenders, but was it awesome how he waited unnecessarily for his teammate to be offside before hitting him with the pass?? like i said, he is good, has even better things ahead of him, but he is not the god you are painting him out to be.

I don't know why it doesn't include all the plays (maybe it does), I don't know, I didn't make it. But it's obviously not a highlight reel when a lot of the plays shown are easy passes or common football plays/mistakes.


you're the typical loser who brings in other things to an argument instead of answering directly. when have i ever said that riquelme is the best in the world? i said he is easily the best argentine freekick specialist, to which your retort was "you are a boca fan". if i'm wrong, who is the better FK specialist? i said maradona made some good changes and that for the most part i liked how he set the team up for the WC, but I said what IMO he did wrong. you didnt answer that either, you just cherry pick and wait for the results to make your criticism.

I don't even remember what you said about Riquelme's FK, my point is that you're a Boca fan and is well known that Boca fans tend to dislike Messi because of his confrontation with Riquelme and the comparison with Maradona.

And about Maradona as a coach, wait for the results?! Didn't you see me bitching about Maradona taking Garce instead of Zanetti and Cambiasso before the WC started? BTW, I also praised him when I thought he made some good moves during the WC.


but if you want to get all bitchy... argentina in 06 with riquelme was a lot closer to beating germany than argentina in 10 with messi, now go write an essay explaining how it was all zanetti and cambiasso (you'll have to include a paragraph on why zanetti's magic didnt work in 98 and 02 and why the team fell apart when cambiasso came in), how the 06 german team was much better because of lehmann and ballack, how klinsmann is a better coach than low and pekerman a better coach than maradona, how playing at home in 06 played against germany because of the pressure and that playing in africa let them play relaxed, etc etc etc.

What's the point of this? Are you trying to say that Riquelme is better than Messi 'cause in '06 we lost in the penalties and in '10 we lost by four? If that's the case, that's a stupid argument. Different teams, different games, different circumstances and last time I checked, footbal wasn't an individual game.


the irony of all this is, that Im not even looking to fight with you, you are worse than quixote. all i'm saying is that you prop messi up to much. if it helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. For me, he is still only a talented dribbler and part time playmaker. when he is a god, he'll be a full time playmaker.

Yes, it helps me sleep at night so I will keep knocking myself out. I don't know why some people get so mad about somebody praising a player he likes, it's kind of weird and sad IMO, but hey! everybody has their own opinion and they are free to express it, just don't get defensive when somebody argues back.

[diego]

defensive? you're the one making assumptions about me. just because I'm a boca fan doesnt mean i dont like messi. But I have seen you say his club merits and technical abilities put him on a maradona level (he "just" needs a WC) and i just dont see it, there's more missing. you posted a clip and said to watch an awesome play. I watched it and for me it was only half awesome because he was needlessly late to pass and said so (and not just that play for that matter- like i said it wasnt a good video of him).

so who's the one getting defensive again? why bring in riquelme and boca? maybe i should just assume you are an insecure river fan. maybe i should just assume since you fill your avatar with girls, that you are a pervert or fat kid who doesnt get any. annoying isnt it? but you knew that already.

[DAF86]

Asumptions? Every post I've seen you make about Messi it's to criticize him, IMO it's normal to think that you don't like Messi too much when every comment you make about him it's a different form of criticism.

If somebody is making wrong asumptions here it's you, first for bealiving that I'm trying to "help a case" by posting videos of my favorite football player and then for bealiving that I said things that I've never said.

[diego]

Asumptions? Every post I've seen you make about Messi it's to criticize him, IMO it's normal to think that you don't like Messi too much when every comment you make about him it's a different form of criticism.


and FYI, messi won the 2008 olympics and has a grand total of 122 minutes played over 3 games in a world cup. if you had just said WC, you could be on to something (even if the kid barely played), but since he was clearly the best player of the 08 gold medal team, you shot yourself in the foot. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4343874&postcount=80)

you quoted that snippet in that same thread, actually


If somebody is making wrong asumptions here it's you, first for bealiving that I'm trying to "help a case" by posting videos of my favorite football player and then for bealiving that I said things that I've never said.

22 post of this thread:


IDK, if he wins just one WC and playing like he's doing right now I think we can already place him alongside the trully greats of this sport.

post 28 of this thread:


Why? Messi has done a lot more than Maradona at the age of 22. A lot of coaches and ex-footballers that have seen both play say that Messi is at the same level (some even say Lionel is better), I think that to be called the greatest of all time you have to at least win a WC but the kid has definitely the talent to be compared to the greats.

that was in just the first 2 pages, do you really want me to look for more?

how about this, next time you post a vid and put "awesome play at the 4:40 mark", either put "half awesome play at the 4:40 mark" or put "if anyone disagrees with me I will get defensive and call them names", that way I'll know how to respond without getting your panties in a bunch

and to hammer the point for the last time, messi is great but he still needs to do more AND he still has to improve his skills (ball skills arent the only kind of skills for a player), then he will be an all time great. if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow a couple of jinky runs and several titles on a stacked team do not make him an all time great. and he can be called overrated, the same way lebron and kobe can be called overrated, because of groupies like you.
:toast

[DAF86]

and FYI, messi won the 2008 olympics and has a grand total of 122 minutes played over 3 games in a world cup. if you had just said WC, you could be on to something (even if the kid barely played), but since he was clearly the best player of the 08 gold medal team, you shot yourself in the foot. (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4343874&postcount=80)

you quoted that snippet in that same thread, actually

I obviously don't remember that, still you have more "critical" comments than "praises" for him, but it's cool, like I said everybody can think what they want, but everybody has also the right to argue those comments.



22 post of this thread:



post 28 of this thread:



that was in just the first 2 pages, do you really want me to look for more?

how about this, next time you post a vid and put "awesome play at the 4:40 mark", either put "half awesome play at the 4:40 mark" or put "if anyone disagrees with me I will get defensive and call them names", that way I'll know how to respond without getting your panties in a bunch

and to hammer the point for the last time, messi is great but he still needs to do more AND he still has to improve his skills (ball skills arent the only kind of skills for a player), then he will be an all time great. if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow a couple of jinky runs and several titles on a stacked team do not make him an all time great. and he can be called overrated, the same way lebron and kobe can be called overrated, because of groupies like you.
:toast

So? Where did I say that Messi is the best of all time?


Find me a post where I said that Messi was the best of all time

Still waiting.

[Brazil]

DAF, you're obviously a big fan of Lionel and there is nothing wrong about that but you should accept people that don't think like you. This thread is the same kind of thread of the kobe one on the nba forum.

For me he has some special talent for sure but IMHO we cannot compare him to Maradona even a 22 years old Maradona.

[DAF86]

DAF, you're obviously a big fan of Lionel and there is nothing wrong about that but you should accept people that don't think like you. This thread is the same kind of thread of the kobe one on the nba forum.

For me he has some special talent for sure but IMHO we cannot compare him to Maradona even a 22 years old Maradona.

I know, that's why I said everybody can say what they want, just expect a counter-arguemnt, speaking of which: Messi at 22 > Maradona at 22, a whole lot more of individual and team accomplishments.

[lefty]

I know, that's why I said everybody can say what they want, just expect a counter-arguemnt, speaking of which: Messi at 22 > Maradona at 22, a whole lot more of individual and team accomplishments.
WC ? :lmao

[DAF86]

WC ? :lmao

Maradona didn't win the WC at age 22, in fact he failed big time in '82 with a stacked team (basically the team that won in '78+ Maradona and other great talents), he was even red carded in that tournament against Brazil of all teams. According to the people that saw both WCs, Messi in this last WC >>> Maradona in the '82 WC

[lefty]

Maradona didn't win the WC at age 22, in fact he failed big time in '82 with a stacked team (basically the team that won in '78+ Maradona and other great talents), he was even red carded in that tournament against Brazil of all teams. According to the people that saw both WCs, Messi in this last WC >>> Maradona in the '82 WC
Argh damn I misread your post sorry :D

But Diego is still and will always be better than Messi

[SAtown]

How many goals will the God-like midget score against a shitty Panathinaikos??? :lmao

[DAF86]

lol Milan

[lefty]

lol Hercules

[DAF86]

And I'm thinking a hat trick to start slowly.

[DAF86]

lol Hercules

lol Mourinho
lol boring games
lol 0-0
lol 1-0

[lefty]

lol Mourinho
lol boring games
lol 0-0
lol 1-0
lol Mourinho ahead of Barcelona

[SAtown]

LOL turning on the sprinklers while Inter and Mourinho celebrate in front of 100,000 buttsore midget fans

[ALVAREZ6]

i was actually going to put, messi is probably the best in the world right now, that doesnt make him godlike or best all time... it just says that right now there arent a lot great teams or players. and looking at most leagues, the CL, and the last WC, that sounds like a pretty accurate statement. Forlan golden boot?? Sorry but thats just sad.

anyways, if its not a highlight, you are telling me messi saw the ball for 5 minutes in a 90 minute game? almost all the balls he touched? so why almost, why not all, why did they include these and not others? you yourself said the play at 4:40 is awesome... yes, it was awesome how he navigated 4 defenders, but was it awesome how he waited unnecessarily for his teammate to be offside before hitting him with the pass?? like i said, he is good, has even better things ahead of him, but he is not the god you are painting him out to be.

you're the typical loser who brings in other things to an argument instead of answering directly. when have i ever said that riquelme is the best in the world? i said he is easily the best argentine freekick specialist, to which your retort was "you are a boca fan". if i'm wrong, who is the better FK specialist? i said maradona made some good changes and that for the most part i liked how he set the team up for the WC, but I said what IMO he did wrong. you didnt answer that either, you just cherry pick and wait for the results to make your criticism.

but if you want to get all bitchy... argentina in 06 with riquelme was a lot closer to beating germany than argentina in 10 with messi, now go write an essay explaining how it was all zanetti and cambiasso (you'll have to include a paragraph on why zanetti's magic didnt work in 98 and 02 and why the team fell apart when cambiasso came in), how the 06 german team was much better because of lehmann and ballack, how klinsmann is a better coach than low and pekerman a better coach than maradona, how playing at home in 06 played against germany because of the pressure and that playing in africa let them play relaxed, etc etc etc.

the irony of all this is, that Im not even looking to fight with you, you are worse than quixote. all i'm saying is that you prop messi up to much. if it helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. For me, he is still only a talented dribbler and part time playmaker. when he is a god, he'll be a full time playmaker.
I don't know if I can agree with this...there's a ton of great players right now, and the reason why I think you don't see crazier stats is because there's multiple of the amazing strikers on the same few teams in the world. To say there aren't that many greaet players right now is just absurd.


They were obviously closer to beating germany in 06, for different reasons. Riquelme was not one of them. Even then he was slow and washed up, I can't take the way he plays anymore (y soy bostero tambien). The defense was stronger with Ayala and Sorin, compared to this past world cup team's dreadful defense. Also, Cambiasso was on the roster, did a good job, and Saviola at striker, ahead of Messi or Tevez, played really well given he was ahead of those two guys. I would disagree to start him over one of the two at the time, but there were positives associated with that decision because I vividly remember how much of a difference Messi and Tevez made immediately when they entered games as substitutes...they came in fresh with energy and really made defenses work. Maradona as coach did not help this time around, obviously, and also, this year's Germany in my opinion was better. Even though they sent a young team, they played better than pretty much everyone (Spain obviously played well, they won, but overall, in every game except their loss, Germany was amazing this world cup).

So really, it had nothing to do with Riquelme and Messi.

[lefty]

LOL turning on the sprinklers while Inter and Mourinho celebrate in front of 100,000 buttsore midget fans
That was so fucking classic :hat

[DAF86]

And I'm thinking a hat trick to start slowly.

Fucking missed PK away of getting my prediction right :lol

[mabrignani]

Yes, lots of meaningless group stage goals against garbage teams.

lol arsenal
anyone can score on that POS goalie and defense

[mabrignani]

lol Mourinho
lol boring games
lol 0-0
lol 1-0

wow you obviously dont know anything about futbol or else you wouldnt be loling mourinho the greatest club coach ever(next to lippi haha)

[diego]

I don't know if I can agree with this...there's a ton of great players right now, and the reason why I think you don't see crazier stats is because there's multiple of the amazing strikers on the same few teams in the world. To say there aren't that many greaet players right now is just absurd.


They were obviously closer to beating germany in 06, for different reasons. Riquelme was not one of them. Even then he was slow and washed up, I can't take the way he plays anymore (y soy bostero tambien). The defense was stronger with Ayala and Sorin, compared to this past world cup team's dreadful defense. Also, Cambiasso was on the roster, did a good job, and Saviola at striker, ahead of Messi or Tevez, played really well given he was ahead of those two guys. I would disagree to start him over one of the two at the time, but there were positives associated with that decision because I vividly remember how much of a difference Messi and Tevez made immediately when they entered games as substitutes...they came in fresh with energy and really made defenses work. Maradona as coach did not help this time around, obviously, and also, this year's Germany in my opinion was better. Even though they sent a young team, they played better than pretty much everyone (Spain obviously played well, they won, but overall, in every game except their loss, Germany was amazing this world cup).

So really, it had nothing to do with Riquelme and Messi.

I dont believe any of those silly arguments re: 06 vs 10, I was just making fun of DAF who for no reason brought riquelme into the argument, so to piss him off I said 06 with riquelme > 10 with messi. Of course its different, for a million reasons, and either way the most important thing is that both teams lost, I'm not one to argue moral victories.

dont take this badly, but I could care less who you are a fan of or what you think of riquelme, the only thing I ever argued about riquelme on this forum is that he is the best FK specialist argentina has and I would have liked to have him this last WC for that reason. Yes he is slow, yes his body is deteriorated, I have never argued otherwise. If someone has an argument for another argentine being better or equal to riquelme at FK, I'd be glad to hear it, but all I got when I made that statement was the typical "screw that lazy diva" speech that really has nothing to do with what I was arguing, which is freekicks.

aside from that, I'd like to hear about the great players we have nowadays. I'm the first to admit I dont watch as much footy as I used to, and maybe Im just getting old, but are there really as many great players now than the 80's? No disrespect to Forlan, he did play very well at the WC, but could he have won a golden boot- in a top league or NT competition- during that time? Forget stats, this isnt that kind of sport. IMO, guys like cristiano ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, materazzi, who are touted among the best in their positions, would be lucky to be subs in top clubs in the 80's.

finally, :lol at DAF saying messi at 22 > maradona at 22. how about at 13? maradona was already famous at 13, messi was a nobody. what a stupid argument.

i guess kobe at 22 > jordan at 22, after all kobe was in the middle of 3peating (i think, not sure :lol). jordan was so bad he was still in college!

look, put aside team success, personality, and everything else, and just compare them as players, the difference between maradona and messi is that maradona's passing game was vastly superior to messi's (and not for lack of technique, its about having the vision, timing, and instinct). maradona also had more power in his shot. Messi may well be the better dribbler, he's faster too. but maradona was a more dangerous player.

[DAF86]

finally, :lol at DAF saying messi at 22 > maradona at 22. how about at 13? maradona was already famous at 13, messi was a nobody. what a stupid argument.

i guess kobe at 22 > jordan at 22, after all kobe was in the middle of 3peating (i think, not sure :lol). jordan was so bad he was still in college!

I was just answering to Brazil, he's the one that brought it up.


look, put aside team success, personality, and everything else, and just compare them as players, the difference between maradona and messi is that maradona's passing game was vastly superior to messi's (and not for lack of technique, its about having the vision, timing, and instinct). maradona also had more power in his shot. Messi may well be the better dribbler, he's faster too. but maradona was a more dangerous player.

I bet you didn't watch today's game. I can't compare Maradona to Messi (when I compare them is looking strictly to stats and accomplishments), 'cause I didn't see Maradona on his prime (other than in films) but one thing is for sure: Messi's passing is underrated because of his great dribbling skills, he is a very good passer.

[DAF86]

Guardiola: "Messi is the best player in the world with a notable difference from the rest. The second is never going to catch him."

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/174/uefa-champions-league/2010/09/14/2118997/barcelona-coach-pep-guardiola-praises-untouchable-lionel

[Brazil]

I was just answering to Brazil, he's the one that brought it up.


Wtf ? you brought this argument up sooner in this thread post 237 something like that. You are the one comparing mardona and messi at 22 years old not me and you confirmed that post 305.

[Brazil]

I bet you didn't watch today's game. I can't compare Maradona to Messi (when I compare them is looking strictly to stats and accomplishments), 'cause I didn't see Maradona on his prime (other than in films) but one thing is for sure: Messi's passing is underrated because of his great dribbling skills, he is a very good passer.

Even if I was young I've seen Marodona playing a lot, messi is a great talent but he is not comparable to Maradona.
Maradona is at the spot #2 in all time greats. When he played with Argentina against Italy during the 90 WC in Napoly, italian supporters rooted for him. Can you imagine that ? He won the italian league almost by himself ! I wish the best to Messi if he can achieve half of what mardona achieved he already would have a fantastic carreer.

[DAF86]

Wtf ? you brought this argument up sooner in this thread post 237 something like that. You are the one comparing mardona and messi at 22 years old not me and you confirmed that post 305.

I saw your comment and I respondend, I don't remember what I posted some months ago, either way I don't think it's a stupid argument. IMO it's a lot fairer to compare 22 years old Messi to 22 years old Maradona, than 22 years old Messi to Maradona's whole career.

[DAF86]

Even if I was young I've seen Marodona playing a lot, messi is a great talent but he is not comparable to Maradona.
Maradona is at the spot #2 in all time greats. When he played with Argentina against Italy during the 90 WC in Napoly, italian supporters rooted for him. Can you imagine that ? He won the italian league almost by himself ! I wish the best to Messi if he can achieve half of what mardona achieved he already would have a fantastic carreer.

In this WC most Catalans prefered Argentina to win over Spain.

Only thing Messi is lacking is the WC, after that he already has Maradona beaten on club and individual awards.

[Brazil]

In this WC most Catalans prefered Argentina to win over Spain.

You cannot compare the situation at all, if it was not for Maradona, no italian in the world would have rooted more for a player to shine than Italy NT to win.


Only thing Messi is lacking is the WC, after that he already has Maradona beaten on club and individual awards.

"Only" ? it is a huge only especially when he will have to get 2 of the most important competition in the world to be compared to Diego.

For the rest, leading Napoli to two titles + 2 second place is something really really really special. For me these achievements are bigger than what messi did untill now with Barcelona.


Anyway maybe because of our age difference I'm nostalgic of the old good times and you are more focused on valorizing the present.

[diego]

In this WC most Catalans prefered Argentina to win over Spain.

Only thing Messi is lacking is the WC, after that he already has Maradona beaten on club and individual awards.

I disagree, for starters, lets say for 2014 argentina wins the WC, with Messi playing his role among a talented argentina team filled with young stars. that's already a lesser feat than maradona in 86, just as messi's club exploits with barca are below maradona in napoli for the same fact. Lets say that those young stars continue to mature and they go on to reach but lose the finals in 2018, thats still less than maradona in 90, when not only he had a so so team but also played on one leg.

and lets say messi wins the next 3 world cups on such a team, is that enough?
lets say messi wins just one world cup, but the same way as diego with a so so team, is that enough?

IMO, it would only be enough if on top of winning, he also improved his passing game, control tempo, lead a team; in other words, his ability to dictate the play. and right now, he doesnt do that.

Even if he doesnt do any of that, I still like him for being very talented, a crazy good dribbler, and a humble kid. But if you want to call him better than maradona, he needs to do all of that.

[DAF86]

I disagree, for starters, lets say for 2014 argentina wins the WC, with Messi playing his role among a talented argentina team filled with young stars. that's already a lesser feat than maradona in 86, just as messi's club exploits with barca are below maradona in napoli for the same fact. Lets say that those young stars continue to mature and they go on to reach but lose the finals in 2018, thats still less than maradona in 90, when not only he had a so so team but also played on one leg.

and lets say messi wins the next 3 world cups on such a team, is that enough?
lets say messi wins just one world cup, but the same way as diego with a so so team, is that enough?

IMO, it would only be enough if on top of winning, he also improved his passing game, control tempo, lead a team; in other words, his ability to dictate the play. and right now, he doesnt do that.

Even if he doesnt do any of that, I still like him for being very talented, a crazy good dribbler, and a humble kid. But if you want to call him better than maradona, he needs to do all of that.

That '90 Argie squad got to the final, thanks mainly to a whole lot of luck: the game against Brazil was unbelievable, then we won the quarters and semis thanks to the penalties. Maradona wasn't even the best player of that team, Caniggia was at that time. So to put the '90 WC as a testament of Maradona's ability to carry a team is inaccurate.

And the teammates argument is subjective and unfair, for ex: Most will agree that in '02 Ronaldo had more talent around him than Cannavaro in '06, but nobody will say that Cannavaro > Ronaldo because of that.

An even better example: Maradona in Barcelona with supossedly better teammates than what he had in Napoly never won anything, so it's all relative, all I know is that if Messi wins a WC he would have a better resume than Maradona.

[lefty]

You cannot compare the situation at all, if it was not for Maradona, no italian in the world would have rooted more for a player to shine than Italy NT to win.



"Only" ? it is a huge only especially when he will have to get 2 of the most important competition in the world to be compared to Diego.

For the rest, leading Napoli to two titles + 2 second place is something really really really special. For me these achievements are bigger than what messi did untill now with Barcelona.


Anyway maybe because of our age difference I'm nostalgic of the old good times and you are more focused on valorizing the present.


I agree with Brazil

If you compare Napoli back then to Barcelona today.......

Outside of Careca, the rest of the team was quite shitty

Diego didnt have Xavi, Iniesta, Eto, Henry, Villa, Puyol, Alves, etc....

Plus, winning the Serie A is much tougher than la Liga

In Spain, you have Barcelona or RMA (and to a lesser degree, Athletico Madrid)

Not only Napoli faced stiffer competition, but they won 2 scudettos in the great Milan AC's days; the AC Milan of Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkard, Baresi, Costacurta, Ancelotti, Maldini.

Also, what Diego accomplished with the Argie NT is impressive.
While Buruchagga and Valdano were good players, they were no Tevez, Aguerro, etc...
He led them to the WC in 86, and to the Final in 90 (and in 90, Argentina looked shitty to be honest)


Maradona FTW

[hater]

I agree with Brazil

If you compare Napoli back then to Barcelona today.......

Outside of Careca, the rest of the team was quite shitty

Diego didnt have Xavi, Iniesta, Eto, Henry, Villa, Puyol, Alves, etc....



x10000

Messi is the Kobe of soccer

[Brazil]

IMO, it would only be enough if on top of winning, he also improved his passing game, control tempo, lead a team; in other words, his ability to dictate the play. and right now, he doesnt do that.



Exactly, this is why the Barcelona boss is Xavi.

Now it's quite unfair to ask Messi to do that because this is not his position or the best way to use it. Messi is a 9 1/2, Maradona, Xavi, Platini, Zidane are true 10.

[Brazil]

I agree with Brazil

If you compare Napoli back then to Barcelona today.......

Outside of Careca, the rest of the team was quite shitty

Diego didnt have Xavi, Iniesta, Eto, Henry, Villa, Puyol, Alves, etc....

Plus, winning the Serie A is much tougher than la Liga

In Spain, you have Barcelona or RMA (and to a lesser degree, Athletico Madrid)

Not only Napoli faced stiffer competition, but they won 2 scudettos in the great Milan AC's days; the AC Milan of Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkard, Baresi, Costacurta, Ancelotti, Maldini.

Also, what Diego accomplished with the Argie NT is impressive.
While Buruchagga and Valdano were good players, they were no Tevez, Aguerro, etc...
He led them to the WC in 86, and to the Final in 90 (and in 90, Argentina looked shitty to be honest)


Maradona FTW

We are in line lefty.

I don't know if we will see again something equivalent one day of what Maradona achieved with Napoli. This club was NOTHING before him and is NOTHING after him. He took an above average team to two titles in the toughest club competition in the world.

[mabrignani]

We are in line lefty.

I don't know if we will see again something equivalent one day of what Maradona achieved with Napoli. This club was NOTHING before him and is NOTHING after him. He took an above average team to two titles in the toughest club competition in the world.

maradona > messi

and as for club coaches, you gotta give it to Mourinho. he gets every team to the champs final and winners of his club league

[lefty]

maradona > messi

and as for club coaches, you gotta give it to Mourinho. he gets every team to the champs final and winners of his club league
Don't jinx it !
:bang

[mabrignani]

cristiano ronaldo > messi

[lefty]

cristiano ronaldo > messi
Although I'm a RMA fan, I would have to disagree

[diego]

cristiano ronaldo > messi

cristiano ronaldo- on a good day!- is half the player messi is

[ALVAREZ6]

I think it's unfair to imply that Barca is Xavi's team, as some of you are doing. Of course he's one of the best playmakers in the world, but you need a great scorer to put the ball in the net. Sure it starts at the midfield, but what Messi contributes is HUGE.

Last season he scored 34 goals and had 10 assists in La Liga (not including champs league)
Xavi had 14 assists and 3 goals (of course the goals isn't important here) with 1 more start than messi.

No player scores that much for a team, that is irreplaceable.

And if you want a quote from Xavi himself, here you go: "It is clear that Messi is on a level above all others. Those who do not see that are blind."

[Brazil]

I think it's unfair to imply that Barca is Xavi's team, as some of you are doing. Of course he's one of the best playmakers in the world, but you need a great scorer to put the ball in the net. Sure it starts at the midfield, but what Messi contributes is HUGE.

Last season he scored 34 goals and had 10 assists in La Liga (not including champs league)
Xavi had 14 assists and 3 goals (of course the goals isn't important here) with 1 more start than messi.

No player scores that much for a team, that is irreplaceable.

And if you want a quote from Xavi himself, here you go: "It is clear that Messi is on a level above all others. Those who do not see that are blind."

The notion of who is the heart of a team is quite subjective anyway.

When you say you need a great scorer to put the ball in the net you can also say you need a great central defender. BTW what it is important for a team is its dorsal spine: 9 / 10 / central defense.

The stats don't help to define a leader of a team. France 1998 the leader was clearly Deschamps with 0 goal and 0 assist. Brazil 94 the leader was Dunga.

In the same way of thinking I stand for what I said, Barcelona is Xavi's team, IMHO of course.

[resistanze]

I'm not saying Barca isn't Messi's team (that's subjective) but I don't think goal production is a good indicator. Goal production is perhaps the most replaceable part of a team (look at Man U, Barca, Inter over the past 5-6 years).

Cristiano Ronaldo scored 42 goals in 49 games the year they won the CL but I'm not sure who would say it his team (over the likes of Rio, Giggs, Scholes, etc.). Rooney had almost as an impressive campaign last year when Ronaldo's production left, etc.

Eto'o was producing for Barca big time over the year (before his injuries) and he was replaced (and Eto'o replaced the production lost at Inter). I think somone like Xavi is much harder to replace than a goal scorer (I think Messi is more than that, though).

[DAF86]

We are in line lefty.

I don't know if we will see again something equivalent one day of what Maradona achieved with Napoli. This club was NOTHING before him and is NOTHING after him. He took an above average team to two titles in the toughest club competition in the world.

And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?

[ALVAREZ6]

I also never said it was Messi's team, but like I said he does more than scoring. He probably is somewhat replaceable simply because Barca has had so many great strikers in recent history, Eto'o, Henry, Villa, Ibrahimovic, on top of Messi. It is absurd how these clubs spend all of that money limitlessly to do that. Xavi isn't the only key midfielder either. But as you've said it is very subjective, and a good soccer team needs good players at all parts of the field.

[sonic21]

And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?

Maradona was not helped by the referees, defenders were really hard on him.(one broke his leg i think and he was out for months)

The spaniards didn't like him, there was some racism against south american in the 80s. He got into frequent disputes with the club president because he was always going out at nights. That's the time he started using drugs.

[DAF86]

And in Italy there wasn't racism? In Italy not only there was racism against south Americans but also a big internal fight between North and South, and Napoly still won despite all those things and the fact that Maradona still carried an unprofessional kind of life.

[MB20]

And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?

From Wikipedia:

FC Barcelona
After the 1982 World Cup, in June, Maradona was transferred to Barcelona in Spain for a then world record £5m.[1] In 1983, under coach César Luis Menotti, Barcelona and Maradona won the Copa del Rey (Spain's annual national cup competition), beating Real Madrid, and the Spanish Super Cup, beating Athletic de Bilbao. However, Maradona had a difficult tenure in Barcelona.[5] First a bout with hepatitis, then a broken leg caused by an ill-timed tackle by Athletic's Andoni Goikoetxea jeopardized his career,[1] but Maradona's physical strength and willpower made it possible for him to soon be back on the pitch. At Barcelona, Maradona got into frequent disputes with the team's directors, especially club president Josep Lluís Núñez, culminating with a demand to be transferred out of Camp Nou in 1984. He was transferred to Napoli in Italy's Serie A for another record fee, £6.9m.

[Brazil]

And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?

I don't see the link with Napoli. The fact he failed with Barcelona decreases the value of what he did with Napoli ?

[lefty]

And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?
That Barcelona team wasnt stacked back then

[ALVAREZ6]

Messi is not at Maradona's level. Not now.

And that doesn't take anything away from Messi, Maradona was amazing. The real debate is Maradona vs. Pele, which can get interesting.

[lefty]

Messi is not at Maradona's level. Not now.

And that doesn't take anything away from Messi, Maradona was amazing. The real debate is Maradona vs. Pele, which can get interesting.
Let's not go there :lol

I don't want to get a migraine

[ALVAREZ6]

Let's not go there :lol

I don't want to get a migraine

I'm not going to, at least not now, but there are a lot of points that most casual fans don't realize. I just don't think either one was clearly better than the other. It's somewhat interesting that Brazilian Roberto Carlos believes Maradona to be have been better. Of course, I'm not saying either is true, and I'm not going there now, but there are things to consider that aren't necessarily obvious.

[MB20]

The real debate is Maradona vs. Pele, which can get interesting.

Interesting? A 200.000 pages thread without any agreement would not be interesting, imo.

Maradona was better in some areas of the game. Pele was better in others.
No point in debating who was better.

It wouldn´t be fair to Pele, either. Nobody here saw him play except for youtube clips.

[ALVAREZ6]

Interesting? A 200.000 pages thread without any agreement would not be interesting, imo.

Maradona was better in some areas of the game. Pele was better in others.
No point in debating who was better.

It wouldn´t be fair to Pele, either. Nobody here saw him play except for youtube clips.

I agree with all of this.. But then again, there are so many things that we continuously debate about here at spurstalk, religion being the big one, and don't come to a conclusion, due to the nature of what we're debating.

That's why I've stressed that I don't think it's fair to rank one above the other, for the same reason it's unfair to compare Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain, for instance. Completely different times.

What we hopefully can agree on in this subject, no matter to which player we who have a natural bias, it's pretty damn close to being impossible to being better at soccer/football/futbol than Maradona and Pele were. It doesn't get much better than that.

(other than being able to do everything they were able to do on a taller frame for a better aerial threat...which would be freakish in the way Lebron is in basketball to be significantly tall yet shiftier and stronger than everyone)

[Brazil]

Well, the whole world (who saw both playing) except some argentinan think Pele is the greatest, I tend to agree with the whole world. Oh and you cannot say that I don't like or don't know Maradona after my zillion posts about how great Maradona was and how incorrect is to try to begin to compare him to Messi.

BTW I traveled a lot in Argentina and saw games in the Bombonera. I even found Argentinan saying Pele is the greatest.

Curiously in Brazil the unanimity is not perfect regarding Pele, there are even few people thinking Maradona is the greatest or even that Garrincha is in reality the best brazilian player ever (most of them being from Rio)

[lefty]

I'm not going to, at least not now, but there are a lot of points that most casual fans don't realize. I just don't think either one was clearly better than the other. It's somewhat interesting that Brazilian Roberto Carlos believes Maradona to be have been better. Of course, I'm not saying either is true, and I'm not going there now, but there are things to consider that aren't necessarily obvious.


Well, the whole world (who saw both playing) except some argentinan think Pele is the greatest, I tend to agree with the whole world. Oh and you cannot say that I don't like or don't know Maradona after my zillion posts about how great Maradona was and how incorrect is to try to begin to compare him to Messi.

BTW I traveled a lot in Argentina and saw games in the Bombonera. I even found Argentinan saying Pele is the greatest.

Curiously in Brazil the unanimity is not perfect regarding Pele, there are even few people thinking Maradona is the greatest or even that Garrincha is in reality the best brazilian player ever (most of them being from Rio)

Brazilian Antonio Careca, who played with Maradonna at Napoli, believes his former teammate was better than Pele



IMHO, Pele was better

[diego]

IMO, the pele vs maradona debate comes down to...

1) Maradona went to europe while Pele stayed in brazil
2) Pele always played on stacked teams, club and national
3) Pele was physically a monster while Maradona was short and stocky. Its like the difference between say, Lebron and Bird (ok, maybe not THAT pronounced!)

for those reasons, I like maradona more, but I respect those who prefer Pele, though I find often times Pele supporters turn the argument to their personal lives, which IMO is not only not fair, but not quite the black-white winner they think it is.

[ALVAREZ6]

IMO, the pele vs maradona debate comes down to...

1) Maradona went to europe while Pele stayed in brazil
2) Pele always played on stacked teams, club and national
3) Pele was physically a monster while Maradona was short and stocky. Its like the difference between say, Lebron and Bird (ok, maybe not THAT pronounced!)

for those reasons, I like maradona more, but I respect those who prefer Pele, though I find often times Pele supporters turn the argument to their personal lives, which IMO is not only not fair, but not quite the black-white winner they think it is.

That's why Pele is annoying for always bringing up his 1,000 career goals when LOL he played at a time where scoring was higher, especially in Brazil and the american league, while Maradona took a regular ass nobody team in a very tough league, during a time period where on top of that defenses were stronger (not as much emphasis in attack as it was in Pele's era), and did great things with that team. And it's not like I believe Pele wouldn't have been able to do what Maradona did, this is just why I don't like saying one is greater than the other.

Anyway, the way those two argue about eachother constantly is annoying...and Pele almost seems insecure/childish to always be making stupid comments to flaunt himself. And obviously, I'm not gonna get into Maradona's personality, lol.

[DAF86]

I don't see the link with Napoli. The fact he failed with Barcelona decreases the value of what he did with Napoli ?

Well, it seems to me that you're trying to dismiss what Messi does with Barcelona because he supossedly has better teammates and plays in a easier league, I just brought Maradona's Barcelona's days to prove that having better teammates or playing in an easier league not always means that you're going to win.

[DAF86]

Well, the whole world (who saw both playing) except some argentinan think Pele is the greatest, I tend to agree with the whole world. Oh and you cannot say that I don't like or don't know Maradona after my zillion posts about how great Maradona was and how incorrect is to try to begin to compare him to Messi.

BTW I traveled a lot in Argentina and saw games in the Bombonera. I even found Argentinan saying Pele is the greatest.

Curiously in Brazil the unanimity is not perfect regarding Pele, there are even few people thinking Maradona is the greatest or even that Garrincha is in reality the best brazilian player ever (most of them being from Rio)

I'm not going to get in the Maradona/Pele argument 'cause like I said I didn't see either of those guys play at their primes (from Pele I haven't even seen full recorded games), but what you say there is just not true. When FIFA awarded the "FIFA of the century player" the World gave Maradona the award by a big margin, then FIFA came with the ridiculous idea of dividing the award so they wouldn't left their good boy empty handed, but the people gave Maradona the award.

I would like to see where you got your "people that saw both players" argument, there was a poll somewhere or something like that? All the people I know that have seen both players play say that Maradona was better, lots of them aren't Argentines.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Well, the whole world (who saw both playing) except some argentinan think Pele is the greatest, I tend to agree with the whole world. Oh and you cannot say that I don't like or don't know Maradona after my zillion posts about how great Maradona was and how incorrect is to try to begin to compare him to Messi.

BTW I traveled a lot in Argentina and saw games in the Bombonera. I even found Argentinan saying Pele is the greatest.

Curiously in Brazil the unanimity is not perfect regarding Pele, there are even few people thinking Maradona is the greatest or even that Garrincha is in reality the best brazilian player ever (most of them being from Rio)

Notice how the whole post is conspicuously vague? that's the mark of person who's talking out of his ass.

:lmao @ "the whole world" bullshit argument. Who's the whole world?

God knows I dislike Maradona, but your argument is complete and utter rubbish, specially since you post no legitimate reasons why you like Pele over Maradona other than some random generalization you got from god knows where.

oh but you certainly managed to insert your "except a few Argentinians" disclaimer to invalidate any dissenting opinion an Argie might have on the matter. Congrats!

[DAF86]

Anyway, let's get this thread back on track.


CCdNw1bkWqs

[TDMVPDPOY]

Anyway, let's get this thread back on track.


CCdNw1bkWqs

its a greek team man, nothing to boast about his performance

[lefty]

its a greek team man, nothing to boast about his performance
Exactly

Anybody can shit on KBP

[Brazil]

I would like to see where you got your "people that saw both players" argument, there was a poll somewhere or something like that? All the people I know that have seen both players play say that Maradona was better, lots of them aren't Argentines.

Yes there are polls about that and a lot by the way. One of them has been made by l'équipe (french newspaper). The result was 1. Pele, 2. Cassius Clay, 3. Lewis, 4. Owens, 5. Fangio, 6. Jordan etc... There were a lot of these polls during the year 2000 and the results were quite the same with Cassius being the number 1 and Pele being number 2.

Of course, polls, studies etc... have their flaws but most of them confirm Pele being the greatest footballer ever.

[diego]

That's why Pele is annoying for always bringing up his 1,000 career goals

pele is a liar, because his official (FIFA) goals scored is 643, and that even includes a lot of low level competition.

the IFFHS, which is more rigourous on this, gives him 541.

they have puskas at 558 (he doesnt come up in the best all time argument despite this, but in actuality he should, a great great player)

but the top scorer of all time is the world reknown Josef Bican, with 805 official and 1468 unofficial goals.

[resistanze]

lol @ thread turning into Maradona vs. Pele.

[lefty]

lol @ thread turning into Maradona vs. Pele.
Abedi Pele? :D

[DAF86]

Yes there are polls about that and a lot by the way. One of them has been made by l'équipe (french newspaper). The result was 1. Pele, 2. Cassius Clay, 3. Lewis, 4. Owens, 5. Fangio, 6. Jordan etc... There were a lot of these polls during the year 2000 and the results were quite the same with Cassius being the number 1 and Pele being number 2.

Of course, polls, studies etc... have their flaws but most of them confirm Pele being the greatest footballer ever.

Seriously? There're polls where only old people can vote to determine which sportsmen were the best?

[Brazil]

Notice how the whole post is conspicuously vague? that's the mark of person who's talking out of his ass.

:lmao @ "the whole world" bullshit argument. Who's the whole world?

God knows I dislike Maradona, but your argument is complete and utter rubbish, specially since you post no legitimate reasons why you like Pele over Maradona other than some random generalization you got from god knows where.

oh but you certainly managed to insert your "except a few Argentinians" disclaimer to invalidate any dissenting opinion an Argie might have on the matter. Congrats!

Dude, can you just chill out a little bit ?

First I said I tend to agree, I'm not doing a strong case about this debate.

Second as I already said, I've just seen some highlights of Pele so I'm not saying I'm an expert. So yeah I'm talking out of my ass, so what ?

Third it's extremely hard to compare two players of different times, so yeah I made some generalization coming from the fact I live in Brazil so I can have an opinion on what Brazilian think about that and I worked a lot in Argentina (Cordoba and Buenos Aires), I watched various games in Argentina, I have some friends there and I'm a fan of Maradona, I think I can give my 2 cts about what some Argentinan can think (the ones I know).

But as you seem to be an expert by calling me out, why don't you share with us your wised opinion on that subject ?


on a side note: posters calling out other posters with names for whatever reasons are annoying as hell. You could have said the same thing with a "I think you're generalizing too much.... see not that difficult to be educated even on a spurs board".

I know your next post will be :lmao butthurt :lmao a frenchie having an opinion on what Argentinan think but I'm pessimist maybe I'll be pleasantely surprised

[Brazil]

Seriously? There're polls where only old people can vote to determine which sportsmen were the best?

DAF I'm not saying that all the polls are legit and that the guys are voting for the good reasons. I'm just saying the vast majority of these polls, studies, opinions ... tend to say that Pele > Maradona and that Pele is on the top 3 of the athlete of the century XX with owens and cassius clay.


Maybe one of the reason why Pele has the edge in people's mind, is because he is like a pioneer: one of the first football player known in the whole world. The 1958 cup transformed him in a legend through newspapers.

[Brazil]

Abedi Pele? :D

Wadle>Pele

[lefty]

Wadle>Pele
Sure sure

And Manu Amoros >>>>>> Garrincha

[Brazil]

Sure sure

And Manu Amoros >>>>>> Garrincha

:lmao Lefty you know shit about football :lmao what a sucker ah ah ah

Di Meco >>>>>>>>>>>> Garrincha >> Amoros

Don't tell me Garrincha is better than Di Meco you never saw Garrincha playing. ah ah ah

[lefty]

:lmao Lefty you know shit about football :lmao what a sucker ah ah ah

Di Meco >>>>>>>>>>>> Garrincha >> Amoros

Don't tell me Garrincha is better than Di Meco you never saw Garrincha playing. ah ah ah
Di Meco :lol

Damn I forgot about him

[DAF86]

DAF I'm not saying that all the polls are legit and that the guys are voting for the good reasons. I'm just saying the vast majority of these polls, studies, opinions ... tend to say that Pele > Maradona and that Pele is on the top 3 of the athlete of the century XX with owens and cassius clay.


Maybe one of the reason why Pele has the edge in people's mind, is because he is like a pioneer: one of the first football player known in the whole world. The 1958 cup transformed him in a legend through newspapers.

Why do you prefer to listen to these polls when the official one, the one that FIFA organized was won by Maradona by a big margin? And why do you pretend like those polls represent "the people's minds"? From what I've seen all my life Maradona is more popular among football fans than Pele.

[Brazil]

Why do you prefer to listen to these polls when the official one, the one that FIFA organized was won by Maradona by a big margin? And why do you pretend like those polls represent "the people's minds"? From what I've seen all my life Maradona is more popular among football fans than Pele.

The FIFA election was an internet votation and a very critised one. It was so critized that FIFA gave finally the title to Pelé against internet votes. For the little story coaches and players in activity or retired gave their votes at a large majority to Pelé. So, and as far as I know FIFA best player is Pele.

For the rest as I stated true or not legit or not the polls, ceremonies etc.. gave in their majority the crown to Pele.
Athlete of the century elected by journalists
Athlete of the century elected by IOC
Football player of the century elected by winners of ballon d'or

I think in people's mind at least in Europe Pele is the greatest.

[ALVAREZ6]

The FIFA election was an internet votation and a very critised one. It was so critized that FIFA gave finally the title to Pelé against internet votes. For the little story coaches and players in activity or retired gave their votes at a large majority to Pelé. So, and as far as I know FIFA best player is Pele.

For the rest as I stated true or not legit or not the polls, ceremonies etc.. gave in their majority the crown to Pele.
Athlete of the century elected by journalists
Athlete of the century elected by IOC
Football player of the century elected by winners of ballon d'or

I think in people's mind at least in Europe Pele is the greatest.

"In December 2000, Pelé and Maradona shared the prize of FIFA Player of the Century by FIFA. The award was originally intended to be based upon votes in a web poll, but after it became apparent that it favoured Diego Maradona, many observers complained that the Internet nature of the poll would have meant a skewed demographic of younger fans who would have seen Maradona play, but not Pelé. FIFA then appointed a "Family of Football" committee of FIFA members to decide the winner of the award. The committee chose Pelé. Since Maradona was winning the Internet poll, however, it was decided he and Pelé should share the award."


The bolded part is interesting since he never played in Europe, rather only joke leagues (relative to the competition we've seen in other places since that time).

And I will reiterate, for many reasons I just don't think it is fair to say one is greater than the other. The FIFA player of the century is officially shared between them, and it's sort of funny that FIFA basically assumed Pele would be elected greatest because once they saw he wasn't, they stepped in and put their foot down like they do everything. FIFA is the most pathetic professional sporting organization in the world (just a comment that has more to do with everything else, and not this issue).

I have a problem how we are always trying to declare greatest ever all of the time, in cases where the differences when the players played are so great too. There's just no use, these players never played against each other in their primes, it's worthless. For example, do you guys think Michael Jordan was that much better than Kobe Bryant, or do you see them as relatively on the same level? Because my opinion is the latter, I don't think it's always fair to have these official greatest ever movements out there. In the football case, do you guys think Pele was much better than Maradona? I tend to believe both were incredibly amazing and both did brilliant things, at different times in different leagues with different players playing alongside them. I just can't rank one above the other.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Dude, can you just chill out a little bit ?

First I said I tend to agree, I'm not doing a strong case about this debate.

Second as I already said, I've just seen some highlights of Pele so I'm not saying I'm an expert. So yeah I'm talking out of my ass, so what ?

Third it's extremely hard to compare two players of different times, so yeah I made some generalization coming from the fact I live in Brazil so I can have an opinion on what Brazilian think about that and I worked a lot in Argentina (Cordoba and Buenos Aires), I watched various games in Argentina, I have some friends there and I'm a fan of Maradona, I think I can give my 2 cts about what some Argentinan can think (the ones I know).

But as you seem to be an expert by calling me out, why don't you share with us your wised opinion on that subject ?


on a side note: posters calling out other posters with names for whatever reasons are annoying as hell. You could have said the same thing with a "I think you're generalizing too much.... see not that difficult to be educated even on a spurs board".

I know your next post will be :lmao butthurt :lmao a frenchie having an opinion on what Argentinan think but I'm pessimist maybe I'll be pleasantely surprised

First of all, I never called you any names. I called your argument bullshit and rubbish. It is. You want to take that personally, go ahead, not my problem, specially since you yourself admitted I was right, you were talking out of your ass.

Second, I don't much like Maradona but I have seen him play and can attest to the genius behind his skills. I can't say the same about Pele as I did NOT see him play other than a few recorded games here and there.

Of course, I'm not the one making a broad generalization about something to support a bullshit point, am I?

P.S. so far, you're the only one bringing nationality into this. I have not mentioned even once the fact you're French (couldn't really give a fuck) or that you live in Brazil, though I do find it hilarious that you think you've got the pulse of two entire nations (not to mention the entire continent of Europe) simply because you worked a few times here and there. Congrats on your broad generalization skills there bro! :tu

[DAF86]

FIFA didn't give the title to Pele, they divided it between him and Maradona after the internet voting didn't go as they planned it. If Pele would have won the poll they would have just leave it that way, but like that wasn't the case they did what they did, they weren't going to recoginize the guy that criticized them all his life against their number one suckup.

And don't change the subject of the argument, we aren't discussing awards being given by journalists here, we're arguing who is more popular among football fans, and like I said from what I've always seen Maradona is more popular, he's the one with the (International made) movies about his life, the songs and all that kind of stuff created to take advantage of his worldwide popularity. I'm sure this has to do with Maradona beign more contemporary than Pele, or the fact that he's more controversial and interesting to the masses, but whatever the case it's pretty obvious to me that Diego is a more popular figure than Pele among football fans.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

[DAF86]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

I don't know what you're arguing, I'm arguing that Maradona is more popular than Pele and by a big margin, beign popular does not equal beign known, how many people in the US care about football and from those how many are true Pele fans, I'm talking about "having the most people buying your stuff, having your poster, beign movilized to vote for you in an internet poll, crying when they meet you" popular. It's not a fair comparisson really, because of the differences in ages but it is what it is.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't know what you're arguing, I'm arguing that Maradona is more popular than Pele and by a big margin, beign popular does not equal beign known, how many people in the US care about football and from those how many are true Pele fans, I'm talking about "having the most people buying your stuff, having your poster, beign movilized to vote for you in an internet poll, crying when they meet you" popular. It's not a fair comparisson really, because of the differences in ages but it is what it is.

Honestly I think you are letting your bias heavily influence your argument. I really don't think Maradona is by far more popular, I would agree that Pele is more popular worldwide. Anyway, you guys by now know my opinion on the subject.

[DAF86]

Maradona has more fans than Pele has people that actually watched him play. To me is pretty obvious that Maradona is more popular.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Maradona has more fans than Pele has people that actually watched him play. To me is pretty obvious that Maradona is more popular.

I think your confidence on the subject is pretty much crap unless you have the numbers to back up your claim of "pretty obvious". Its not to me, and many others.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that you ask most Brasilians out there and they'll tell you Pele is much more popular. It doesn't seem to be quite that obvious to them, now does it?

[DAF86]

I think your confidence on the subject is pretty much crap unless you have the numbers to back up your claim of "pretty obvious". Its not to me, and many others.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that you ask most Brasilians out there and they'll tell you Pele is much more popular. It doesn't seem to be quite that obvious to them, now does it?

Numbers? Well the "FIFA player of the century" internet vote is the only thing I know that can be somewhat considered as a comparisson of popularity between them and Maradona won that one (and I can't find the % right now, but if I recall correctly Maradona won it by a considerable margin). You'll probably say; "well, that's not fair Pele is older and most of his fans probably don't use internet" or things like that, but that's my point. A lot more people saw Maradona play than Pele, is only normal that Maradona has more fans right now, Pele isn't even that big on his own country. Not too long ago Senna beat him in Brazil as the biggest sportmen from that country, do you imagine Fangio beating Maradona in Argentina? Not a chance.

[ALVAREZ6]

Numbers? Well the "FIFA player of the century" internet vote is the only thing I know that can be somewhat considered as a comparisson of popularity between them and Maradona won that one (and I can't find the % right now, but if I recall correctly Maradona won it by a considerable margin). You'll probably say; "well, that's not fair Pele is older and most of his fans probably don't use internet" or things like that, but that's my point. A lot more people saw Maradona play than Pele, is only normal that Maradona has more fans right now, Pele isn't even that big on his own country. Not too long ago Senna beat him in Brazil as the biggest sportmen from that country, do you imagine Fangio beating Maradona in Argentina? Not a chance.
Well than what kind of point is this exactly...? It's nothing more than who may or may not be more popular, which, I'm not sure if you've stated earlier, doesn't have to do with who was the better player.

[DAF86]

Well than what kind of point is this exactly...? It's nothing more than who may or may not be more popular, which, I'm not sure if you've stated earlier, doesn't have to do with who was the better player.

Well yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. I never got into the who's better argument, I even clarified that in an earlier post. How can I talk about who's better if I never saw any of them play at their primes?

[ALVAREZ6]

Well yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. I never got into the who's better argument, I even clarified that in an earlier post. How can I talk about who's better if I never saw any of them play at their primes?
Well I agree. Then what's the point of comparing who is more popular today?

[Brazil]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

So you are giving your 2 cts on a subject saying it's just your humble opinion. This is what I did in my previous posts no need to burn my arguments out.

My 2 cts on the subject. I think Pele is more recognized than Maradona and pros coaches, players evaluate is the goat.

[ALVAREZ6]

Messi just went down in addage time...he looks legit hurt

Carried off on stretcher, looks like he rolled his right ankle pretty bad

[DAF86]

He could be out for a while.

[DAF86]

Two to four weeks out.

http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=726508&idseccio_PK=803

[Brazil]

what happened ?

[ALVAREZ6]

what happened ?

He was either running with the ball or just receiving it in full stride and some atletico player came in hard and slid and knocked him off the ball, sort took out his left leg while also hitting his right ankle (or messi stepped on his foot and rolled his ankle)

it was stupid, the guy had no real chance of stopping the play, pretty late challenge.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://cms.442.haymarketnetwork.com/contentimages/blog/FourFourTwoView/Ujfalusi.jpg
It was this ugly faggot's late challenge, Tomas Ujfalusi

[TDMVPDPOY]

if messi = god, then shouldnt he be immuned from such injuries?

[ALVAREZ6]

if messi = god, then shouldnt he be immuned from such injuries?

Maybe but I think this is all part of "his plan" :stirpot:

[Phenomanul]

He was either running with the ball or just receiving it in full stride and some atletico player came in hard and slid and knocked him off the ball, sort took out his left leg while also hitting his right ankle (or messi stepped on his foot and rolled his ankle)

it was stupid, the guy had no real chance of stopping the play, pretty late challenge.

The tackle itself was what injured Messi... Ujfalusi hit his ankle dead on. :bang

[lefty]

He didnt hit him on purpose

Ugly dude wanted to play the ball, but Messi is so damn quick

[TDMVPDPOY]

so if barca wins all its games when messi is out

then this clearly says whose team it is...iniesta?

[Brazil]

He was either running with the ball or just receiving it in full stride and some atletico player came in hard and slid and knocked him off the ball, sort took out his left leg while also hitting his right ankle (or messi stepped on his foot and rolled his ankle)

it was stupid, the guy had no real chance of stopping the play, pretty late challenge.

And it was at the end of the game. I don't understand why coaches don't bench their main players when the result of the game is already known tbh. In that case it was only 2/1 but Barcelona even w/o Messi could have kept this result.

It would avoid injuries, give more rest and it would also be beneficial for the team to learn to play w/o the main assets of the team in case of long injuries.

[lefty]

And it was at the end of the game. I don't understand why coaches don't bench their main players when the result of the game is already known tbh. In that case it was only 2/1 but Barcelona even w/o Messi could have kept this result.

It would avoid injuries, give more rest and it would also be beneficial for the team to learn to play w/o the main assets of the team in case of long injuries.
I agree

Pepe should have made a substitution

[Phenomanul]

I agree

Pepe should have made a substitution

That's OK, Iniesta will cure Messi...

Look up "Crackovia Iniesta Cura a Messi" on youtube...

[lefty]

That's OK, Iniesta will cure Messi...

Look up "Crackovia Iniesta Cura a Messi" on youtube...
:lol

[DAF86]

so if barca wins all its games when messi is out

then this clearly says whose team it is...iniesta?

Xavi > Iniesta

[DAF86]

GYZb6G2lEno&feature=related

The injury.

[sefant77]

Ouch. Remembers me about some of Dirks twisted ankles and you thought first he is done for the season.

http://estaticos01.marca.com/imagenes/2010/09/20/g2009.jpg

[DAF86]

Ouch! I can't bealive he didn't break his ankle. Funny how it doesn't seem so bad at first glance.

[resistanze]

That's fucking disgusting.

[ALVAREZ6]

He didnt hit him on purpose

Ugly dude wanted to play the ball, but Messi is so damn quick

It was a late challenge regardless, he didn't have a chance, and I agree with everyone, Messi should have been out of the game by then, but I guess Guardiola was not convinced yet...Barca was not really on the offensive at that stage in the game but you never know, Atletico was still hanging around... it would have taken a stupid mistake for Barca to lose that game but it wasn't a completely convincing win either.

The defenseman was asking for it at that minute of the game, and the reason why he had such a small chance of ever getting away with that is because messi was running into a full sprint and the ball was more towards his right foot, Ujfalusi came from Messi's left side and reached across Messi''s left leg and there was not doubt he had to take out Messi's left leg in order to ever get to the ball...so before Ujfalusi crushed his ankle he took out his left leg too.

It was sort of stupid on both parts, Ujfalusi and Guardiola.

[mabrignani]

WHAT A FLOP!!! he rolled like 3-4 times

[ALVAREZ6]

WHAT A FLOP!!! he rolled like 3-4 times

Well every soccer player does, Messi does not flop as much compared to most prolific scorers, and he suffered a legitimate hard injury.

LOL mabrignani don't talk about flopping, I remember the 2006 world cup, it's part of the reason I cannot take watching Italy play. They are flopping faggot primadonnas, it's just pathetic to watch. They cry on the ground delaying the game for a minute after a pathetic touch on the shin.

[ALVAREZ6]

Of all big time strikers, Messi tries to stay on his feet more than the vast majority:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4Qxd8nmPs&feature=fvwk

[Brazil]

It was a late challenge regardless, he didn't have a chance, and I agree with everyone, Messi should have been out of the game by then, but I guess Guardiola was not convinced yet...Barca was not really on the offensive at that stage in the game but you never know, Atletico was still hanging around... it would have taken a stupid mistake for Barca to lose that game but it wasn't a completely convincing win either.

The defenseman was asking for it at that minute of the game, and the reason why he had such a small chance of ever getting away with that is because messi was running into a full sprint and the ball was more towards his right foot, Ujfalusi came from Messi's left side and reached across Messi''s left leg and there was not doubt he had to take out Messi's left leg in order to ever get to the ball...so before Ujfalusi crushed his ankle he took out his left leg too.

It was sort of stupid on both parts, Ujfalusi and Guardiola.

I cannot decide if Ujfa is doing that on purpose or not.

[sefant77]

Look the way Ujfalusi goes to the ball. There is no change to play the ball without fouling/bodychecking Messi even if he played the ball...

[mabrignani]

Well every soccer player does, Messi does not flop as much compared to most prolific scorers, and he suffered a legitimate hard injury.

LOL mabrignani don't talk about flopping, I remember the 2006 world cup, it's part of the reason I cannot take watching Italy play. They are flopping faggot primadonnas, it's just pathetic to watch. They cry on the ground delaying the game for a minute after a pathetic touch on the shin.

italy didnt flop more than any other country that played that year, i remember spain argentina, germany and brazil all flopping like crazy...even this year.
i admit flopping is part of the game but messi in that video literally rolled 4 times after contact.....come on

[Phenomanul]

italy didnt flop more than any other country that played that year, i remember spain argentina, germany and brazil all flopping like crazy...even this year.
i admit flopping is part of the game but messi in that video literally rolled 4 times after contact.....come on

Seriously dude? Not many soccer players... let alone athletes can take that type of hit and 'play it off' as if nothing happened... That's an ankle crushing blow... if you don't roll around (mind you after being taken out at full sprint) you run the risk of aggravating the injury further...

[sefant77]

italy didnt flop more than any other country that played that year, i remember spain argentina, germany and brazil all flopping like crazy...even this year.
i admit flopping is part of the game but messi in that video literally rolled 4 times after contact.....come on

So who in this forum gonna foul mabri the same way so we can see how many times you gonna roll after it

[resistanze]

In this case, Messi wasn't flopping with his rolls - he was injured, in extreme pain and his momentum from sprinting thrusted him forward. There are players like Lucio however who barrel roll any time they're touched.

[ElNono]

http://bucket.ak.lanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/66/1264466w298.jpg

Nasty... can't believe it was just a sprain...

[ALVAREZ6]

italy didnt flop more than any other country that played that year, i remember spain argentina, germany and brazil all flopping like crazy...even this year.
i admit flopping is part of the game but messi in that video literally rolled 4 times after contact.....come on

Well we can find some common ground..because I agree with you, when I was watching live it did seem he rolled more than naturally, but all players do this in soccer even when they don't suffer any injury at all. Yesterday, there's no doubt he was in serious pain, if you look at the image it looks pretty bad. If I were in his shoes and some scrub comes and does that to me in addage time when the game is over, I might exaggerate a little too just to make sure he gets sent off, which is exactly what happened.

So while he exaggerated in the roll a little bit, it's not like he completely flopped and fabricated it because he did suffer a harsh injury, and a very frustrating one at that, as he probably has huge ambitions to continue his level of play to keep Barcelona as competitive as possible to outlast Mourinho & Co. and maybe win another FIFA player of the year. In his mind he knows he while taking that blow he's gonna inevitably miss a decent amount of games, and in his shoes it must have been really frustrating.

[mabrignani]

So who in this forum gonna foul mabri the same way so we can see how many times you gonna roll after it

haha pussy, scared to do it yourself

[mabrignani]

what is messi doing even playing that late in the game anyways? youre up a goal and its already in the 90th minute? thats a managerial problem, he shouldnt even of been playing when they were winning

[ElNono]

what is messi doing even playing that late in the game anyways? youre up a goal and its already in the 90th minute? thats a managerial problem, he shouldnt even of been playing when they were winning

TBH, Barcelona haven't won there in a long time... It was a big deal for them to get a win there... And the score was 1-2, far from a sure win.

Also, Messi probably did exaggerate post-contact, but anybody over 25 that gets stepped on the ankle like that breaks the ligament no questions asked.
He's lucky he's still a young.

[sefant77]

haha pussy, scared to do it yourself

Nah, i dont wanna waste my time because u will anyway flop before the hit and still scream like a little girl like every italian.

The way italian players act is a disgrace of sportsmanship. They take the flopping, faking injuries for cards or eating time etc to a complete new level.

Thats why no one likes them.

[mabrignani]

Nah, i dont wanna waste my time because u will anyway flop before the hit and still scream like a little girl like every italian.

The way italian players act is a disgrace of sportsmanship. They take the flopping, faking injuries for cards or eating time etc to a complete new level.

Thats why no one likes them.

everyone loves italy and italian. and everyone flops

[mabrignani]

oh yeah and you sound like a scared pussy tryin to get someone else to foul me hahaha

[mabrignani]

was messi on fire? cuz he did a good stop drop and roll

[diego]

hi guys, been busy celebrating chile's bicentennial, but I had heard about the play and just saw it now... no question in my mind that it was a hatchet job, messi's quickness has nothing to do with it. no chance to get the ball, went in with his sole up, just a dirty ass play and I hope that guy gets at least 5 games punishment. the fact that the game was ending, if anything, confirms it was a dirty play, there was no need for it. And the "apology" is a load of BS, at the time of the play he didnt even look at messi

and :lol at the cristiano ronaldo fan calling messi a flopper, why do you guys even bother answering that dude?

[mabrignani]

and :lol at the cristiano ronaldo fan calling messi a flopper, why do you guys even bother answering that dude?

i hope im not the one youre talking about because i hate cristiano ronaldo

[DAF86]

Messi wins the golden boot.

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/europe/story/barcelona-star-lionel-messi-wins-golden-boot-award

[mabrignani]

"Messi now joins Marco van Basten, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo as the only players to have won all three major individual awards: the Golden Boot, FIFA World Player of the Year and the Golden Ball, given to the European footballer of the year."

now the discussion of messi vs ronaldo can begin

[SAtown]

Messi wins the golden boot.

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/europe/story/barcelona-star-lionel-messi-wins-golden-boot-award

They should rename this the "Dirk Nowitzki" award.

[SAtown]

...The prize comes after a lackluster Messi had failed to score a single goal at the World Cup in South Africa.
GODfail :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

Nah, i dont wanna waste my time because u will anyway flop before the hit and still scream like a little girl like every italian.

The way italian players act is a disgrace of sportsmanship. They take the flopping, faking injuries for cards or eating time etc to a complete new level.

Thats why no one likes them.

lol italy, cant stand watchin their national side or even local teams play in international tourneys...it seems like its okay for them and flop cry like a bitch on the field, but when the other team does it, they throw a tantrum at the player tryin to flop like them

[DAF86]

They should rename this the "Dirk Nowitzki" award.

When has Nowitzki won the scoring title in the NBA?

[resistanze]

Allen Iverson award.

J/K.

[DAF86]

GODfail :lol


http://aproposofnothing.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/envy.jpg

[ALVAREZ6]

Haters gon' hate

[SAtown]

Hercules, Japan... He's lucky his team doesn't play Trinidad & Tobago next :lol

[DAF86]

Great video about the most underrated aspect of Messi's game


6t8qPQrZz3U

[it's me]

Great video about the most underrated aspect of Messi's game


6t8qPQrZz3U

Wow….. imagine Messi having Messi to finish his passes as Xavi and Iniesta have….. lol .......... but but... CR5.0 is still better.

[TDMVPDPOY]

fck messi

http://ca1.upanh.com/9.645.13835508.KUX0/3L011891780_1_1.gif

[ALVAREZ6]

fck messi

http://ca1.upanh.com/9.645.13835508.KUX0/3L011891780_1_1.gif

U mad? :lol

I don't get it, unless you're a huge Madrid fan I don't see how anyone can have anything bad to say about Messi.

[resistanze]

http://ca1.upanh.com/9.645.13835508.KUX0/3L011891780_1_1.gif

:lmao

[diego]

that little gif is retarded- robinho is the one who does the standing still step overs, i dont think I've ever seen messi do a single step over. messi is a great dribbler but he doesnt do those little tricks, he uses speed and control, not feints (at the most a little hesitation), to get past a defender.


as for the vid DAF posted, I saw it a couple days ago but didnt have time to comment. There are some nice passes, but I think if anything it proves my point DAF- the vast majority of the passes in the vid are diagonal passes from the center of the pitch to the wings, low to the ground and many of them either a little hard or a little late. there are a couple of nice crosses and a couple of nice short chips into the box, but for the most part there is not great variety. I think messi's has good to great court vision, but needs better timing and a little more precision on his long passes (the way he piles up defenders, if he were better at switching the ball it would be deadly). also, he can be a little too ambitious with his 1-2s, but in general i prefer to see a failed attempt to pass than a failed attempt to dribble/shoot.

also, its a good point that messi doesnt have a messi to pass to like xavi and iniesta, though in the NT I think its disappointing he doesnt have a better rapport with guys like tevez, aguero, di maria, pastore, who are all adept at playing that short, quick, close to the ground style.

[ALVAREZ6]

also, its a good point that messi doesnt have a messi to pass to like xavi and iniesta, though in the NT I think its disappointing he doesnt have a better rapport with guys like tevez, aguero, di maria, pastore, who are all adept at playing that short, quick, close to the ground style.
I would weigh this lowly though...let's face it, the national team isn't a club that trains together everyday. They only play a few important games together, we know it's a small sample size. This combined with the coaching is what I blame more for his relative "unsuccess" at the national team level. I've despised how the national team has played in recent tournaments such as the past world cup, they don't move and play like a team in my opinion, and considering it's a small group of games to judge on and not the best coaching in the world to put together good tactical strategies in games, I don't think it's much of a point when discussing his passing on the national team.

[diego]

ok, the year and a half and one tournament that maradona coached the team for is enough to forgive messi for not having a better on the field understanding with tevez (undoubtedly a top 10 striker in the world). at the very least, its the same reason that brazilian teams have such difficulty passing to one another, as seen from 94 - 2002- they just dont train enough together.

or maybe, messi hasn't figued out how to play with a guy like tevez because he has a tendency to hold on to the ball and give the pass late, which a good opponent will turn into an offside, as germany repeatedly did.

[ALVAREZ6]

ok, the year and a half and one tournament that maradona coached the team for is enough to forgive messi for not having a better on the field understanding with tevez (undoubtedly a top 10 striker in the world). at the very least, its the same reason that brazilian teams have such difficulty passing to one another, as seen from 94 - 2002- they just dont train enough together.

or maybe, messi hasn't figued out how to play with a guy like tevez because he has a tendency to hold on to the ball and give the pass late, which a good opponent will turn into an offside, as germany repeatedly did.

LOL ok. I'm not even breaking it down that far to 2 players, I'm saying the team as a whole hasn't performed up to par and you can't put that all on Messi, not his fault the team doesn't move well without the ball, and that's either on the players or management.

[DAF86]

ok, the year and a half and one tournament that maradona coached the team for is enough to forgive messi for not having a better on the field understanding with tevez (undoubtedly a top 10 striker in the world). at the very least, its the same reason that brazilian teams have such difficulty passing to one another, as seen from 94 - 2002- they just dont train enough together.

or maybe, messi hasn't figued out how to play with a guy like tevez because he has a tendency to hold on to the ball and give the pass late, which a good opponent will turn into an offside, as germany repeatedly did.

And why has Messi figured out how to play with Pedro, Villa, Iniesta, Xavi, Alves, etc.? Sometimes you make the most ridiculous arguments trying to defend Maradona.

[TDMVPDPOY]

messi came runners up to XAVI for world player of the year award, missed out by nearly 1% of the votes, then again...its bs

[MB20]

Messi just won Balon d´Or for second consecutive year.

[Spurologist]

fck messi

http://ca1.upanh.com/9.645.13835508.KUX0/3L011891780_1_1.gif

:lmao

[lefty]

Xavi got robbed

Sjneider deserved it too

[urunobili]

Xavi got robbed

[resistanze]

Would have given it to Xavi, but guess you can't argue with Messi's numbers.

[Brazil]

Xavi got robbed

[it's me]

Lol @ people saying Xavi got robbed...... it's actually coaches and players votes.....I'd imagine they know shit about it..... also... any honest non homer soccer fan would agree on this....its like when playing with friends ... if you won the right to pick first, almost everybody would pick Messi over any player included Xavi and Iniesta.

[ALVAREZ6]

Lol @ people saying Xavi got robbed...... it's actually coaches and players votes.....I'd imagine they know shit about it..... also... any honest non homer soccer fan would agree on this....its like when playing with friends ... if you won the right to pick first, almost everybody would pick Messi over any player included Xavi and Iniesta.

Probably true, but regardless, this isn't exactly what the award is. The award goes to whomever supposedly performed the best that year, not necessarily the best player. And I agree with whomever said you can't downplay Messi's numbers...they're amazing.


My real reason for responding to this is to put it like this: Lebron can't win MVP every year, but pretty much every non-retard would take Lebron first overall. Even though everyone knows his value, he can't win the award 6,7 years in a row through his prime years. Throughout his prime years there's no denying there isn't a more valuable player.

[Brazil]

In world cup year I think it's faire to give the trophy to the best player of the winning team. There is no competition more important than the WC but this is MHO. God knows I hate the spanish NT but they are the best in the world and Xavi is the master piece of the best team in the world.

[ALVAREZ6]

Messi, for his part, helped Argentina to the quarter-finals of the tournament but, despite making a sizeable contribution to his country’s cause, he did not find the net and was powerless to prevent the 4-0 thrashing at the hands of Germany.

In the Champions League, he was unable to find the net in either leg against Inter as Barca went out at the semi-final stage.

The award, then, seems more in recognition of his immense talent than his success in 2010. On paper, both Sneijder and Xavi have greater cause for recognition; in practice, the international coaches and captains and journalists who voted for the award chose to recognise a man who boasted the greatest ability.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

To say Xavi got robbed is to imply Messi didn't deserve it, which is complete bullshit. Xavi could have easily won it and it would have been justly deserved as well, but that doesn't mean he was robbed. It means the competition was tough this year.

[ALVAREZ6]

Eight of the 20 winners of the FIFA award have come from Barcelona, which also won with Brazilians Romario (1994), Ronaldo (1996 and 1997), Rivaldo (1999) and Ronaldinho.
:wow

[it's me]

Probably true, but regardless, this isn't exactly what the award is. The award goes to whomever supposedly performed the best that year, not necessarily the best player. And I agree with whomever said you can't downplay Messi's numbers...they're amazing.


My real reason for responding to this is to put it like this: Lebron can't win MVP every year, but pretty much every non-retard would take Lebron first overall. Even though everyone knows his value, he can't win the award 6,7 years in a row through his prime years. Throughout his prime years there's no denying there isn't a more valuable player.

I'd put it like this..... even winning a WC and Messi sucking (actually Maradona is a moron as a DT) on the WC, on the eyes of most coaches and players, Messi had a better year and was the best player.... imagine if Argentina had a real DT? or if Messi played for Spain (he was close to do so, actually)...... Honestly, when he started, I was sure he would be another prospect and nothing else..... I was wrong, he's freaking awesome, and what's even more scary, is that the guy is only 23.

[TDMVPDPOY]

To say Xavi got robbed is to imply Messi didn't deserve it, which is complete bullshit. Xavi could have easily won it and it would have been justly deserved as well, but that doesn't mean he was robbed. It means the competition was tough this year.

i thought sneijder wouldver won it, his team won champions league, serie-a, actually inter won the treble didnt they? and lead netherlands to finals at WC

compared to messi who did shit all in WC, was shut down in CL, arrrg la-liga 2 horse team only.....nothing to boast about even if it wins the la-liga title

[DAF86]

Messi deserved it plain and simple, 62 goals in 68 matches, I don't know how many assists, and those saying that he played like crap in the WC didn't see him play or are lying 'cause they don't like Messi, there's a reason he got nominated in the top 10 for best players of the tournament even though his team only made it to the quarterfinals.

Iniesta played half season last year, and Xavi didn't have a particular great WC. The WC had his award and it was won by Forlan. The Golden ball goes for the player that played the best during the whole year, and that was Messi without a question.

[DAF86]

Why the fuck does this forum only allows you to look three pages? I can't quote SAtown calling me a homer for saying that I thought that Messi was going to win the Golden ball.

lol SAtown

[sonic21]

that sucks for Xavi, he won't have another chance to win it.

[DAF86]

This golden ball argument reminds me of the Lebron/Kobe discussion in the NBA, people confuse individual awards with team accomplishments:

Some people say that Kobe is better than Lebron just 'cause the Lakers were better than the Cavs. Same happens here, people say that Xavi/Iniesta deserved the Golden ball just 'cause Spain was (is) better than Argentina, and in this case is even worse 'cause even though it's the WC it's still only 1 month out of 12, and in that month Xavi and Iniesta weren't even the players that performed better for their team, Villa won a poll in "Marca" (Spanish newspaper) as the best Spanish player of the WC.

[SAtown]

Why the fuck does this forum only allows you to look three pages? I can't quote SAtown calling me a homer for saying that I thought that Messi was going to win the Golden ball.

lol SAtown

Here I'll help you out...


DAF86 is the biggest homer currently on ST. If anyone disagrees he or she is insane.

[resistanze]

This golden ball argument reminds me of the Lebron/Kobe discussion in the NBA, people confuse individual awards with team accomplishments:

Some people say that Kobe is better than Lebron just 'cause the Lakers were better than the Cavs. Same happens here, people say that Xavi/Iniesta deserved the Golden ball just 'cause Spain was (is) better than Argentina, and in this case is even worse 'cause even though it's the WC it's still only 1 month out of 12, and in that month Xavi and Iniesta weren't even the players that performed better for their team, Villa won a poll in "Marca" (Spanish newspaper) as the best Spanish player of the WC.

Fabio Cannavaro won the award - Cannavaro! Xavi is definately more deserving using past winners as a measure. World Cup winners tend to have a better chance - Xavi also had club success.

The bottom line is, they better keep voting for Messi for the next half-decade or so. He's not even at his peak so they better not give some other schmuck the award because they're tired of giving it to Messi. I expect Messi to duplicate his totals, while possibly winning the treble with Barca (which would be more impressive than his past year). They had a good excuse to not give it to Messi this year with the WC, they won't have much of a reason for the next few years.

[ALVAREZ6]

Fabio Cannavaro won the award - Cannavaro! Xavi is definately more deserving using past winners as a measure. World Cup winners tend to have a better chance - Xavi also had club success.

The bottom line is, they better keep voting for Messi for the next half-decade or so. He's not even at his peak so they better not give some other schmuck the award because they're tired of giving it to Messi. I expect Messi to duplicate his totals, while possibly winning the treble with Barca (which would be more impressive than his past year). They had a good excuse to not give it to Messi this year with the WC, they won't have much of a reason for the next few years.
:tu


Messi is better than everyone, no big deal, just award the damn man. Same with Lebron, except he douches himself to widespread hatred. Don't nobody deny it, Lebron is better than every player in the NBA, and some people pretend to disagree.

[velik_m]

Here is how the votes went:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/classic/awards/01/36/25/40/ballondor%5faward%5fmen%5fplayer%5ffinalx.pdf

Some interesting ones:


Captains:
country voter 5pts 3pts 1pt
Brazil De Souza Robson Messi Lionel Xavi Forlán Diego
England Rio Ferdinand Sneijder Wesley Iniesta Andrés Xavi
France Diarra Alou Iniesta Andrés Xavi Sneijder Wesley
Germany Lahm Philipp Iniesta Andrés Sneijder Wesley Messi Lionel
Italy Buffon Gianluigi Iniesta Andrés Sneijder Wesley Casillas Iker
Netherlands Van Bommel Mark invalid vote invalid vote Schweinsteiger Bastian
Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo Xavi Casillas Iker Sneijder Wesley
(fuck that midget)
Spain Casillas Iker Robben Arjen Sneijder Wesley Cristiano Ronaldo
(fuck Barca)
Sweden Ibrahimovic Zlatan Iniesta Andrés Sneijder Wesley Xavi
USA Bocanegra Carlos Xavi Iniesta Andrés Sneijder Wesley

Votes by coach (men)
England Capello Fabio Iniesta Andrés Xavi Drogba Didier
Germany Löw Joachim Xavi Messi Lionel Forlán Diego
Italy Prandelli Cesare Sneijder Wesley Iniesta Andrés Messi Lionel
Netherlands Van Marwijk Bert invalid vote Messi Lionel Xavi
(the dutch don't know how to vote)
Spain Del Bosque Vicente Messi Lionel Cristiano Ronaldo Schweinsteiger Bastian

media
Argentina Sacco Enrique Messi Lionel / Argentina Iniesta Andrés / Spain Forlán Diego / Uruguay
(expect nothing but homer vote from argie :))
Netherlands van den Nieuwenhof Frans Iniesta Andrés / Spain Xavi / Spain Sneijder Wesley / Netherlands
Portugal Rita Joaquim Xavi / Spain Messi Lionel / Argentina Sneijder Wesley / Netherlands
Spain Aguilar Paco Xavi / Spain Messi Lionel / Argentina Sneijder Wesley / Netherlands

[ALVAREZ6]

Although with that being said, to follow up on my last post and on what resistanze posted, I would be pretty surprised if Messi gets the award a couple of more years consecutively...only because FIFA is way too much of a retarded and corrupt organization. Those fuckers literally make 95% terrible decisions...so I'd take anything FIFA does, ever, with a tiny grain of salt.

[Brazil]

:tu


Messi is better than everyone, no big deal, just award the damn man. Same with Lebron, except he douches himself to widespread hatred. Don't nobody deny it, Lebron is better than every player in the NBA, and some people pretend to disagree.

I do not consider Messi "stole" this award but my vote goes to Xavi. For me in 2010 I'd consider Xavi and Sneijder and no Messi didn't perform at expected level during the world cup.

[resistanze]

Although with that being said, to follow up on my last post and on what resistanze posted, I would be pretty surprised if Messi gets the award a couple of more years consecutively...only because FIFA is way too much of a retarded and corrupt organization. Those fuckers literally make 95% terrible decisions...so I'd take anything FIFA does, ever, with a tiny grain of salt.

That's why I wanted Xavi to win it this year. Because I know FIFA won't give it Messi for 4-5 consecutive years, for the sake of 'mixing it up.' Unless he battles injuries, that's probably going to be a dumb decision. Might as well 'mix it up' this year then make sure he gets it in very deserving years.

[ALVAREZ6]

I do not consider Messi "stole" this award but my vote goes to Xavi. For me in 2010 I'd consider Xavi and Sneijder and no Messi didn't perform at expected level during the world cup.

Why, because he didn't score a goal in that 1-month period of time in a very short tournament??? He played well, period, you are another victim of media bullshit.

[ALVAREZ6]

That's why I wanted Xavi to win it this year. Because I know FIFA won't give it Messi for 4-5 consecutive years, for the sake of 'mixing it up.' Unless he battles injuries, that's probably going to be a dumb decision. Might as well 'mix it up' this year then make sure he gets it in very deserving years.

Think about it though. Other than the world cup, Messi had an incredible year. Incredible.


I'm not saying Xavi didn't deserve it either, I'm not totally sure who I would have voted for, but definitely not Iniesta because Xavi's accomplishments are the same as his + more.

[lefty]

The new Algerian NT coach voted for Ronaldo


Now I know why we suck

[resistanze]

Think about it though. Other than the world cup, Messi had an incredible year. Incredible.


I'm not saying Xavi didn't deserve it either, I'm not totally sure who I would have voted for, but definitely not Iniesta because Xavi's accomplishments are the same as his + more.

Until this year, every year this award has existed, the award winner during a World Cup year has come from the World Cup winning team (Romario, Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro).

What I'm saying is expect Messi to match or even surpass his total form this year, along with additional team accomplishments (Barca didn't even win the Copa del Rey or CL this year). But I have a feeling they won't give it to Messi for several straight years. Messi is one of those rare players that will be in contention (top 3) every year he's healthy. So if they're gonna spread the wealth (which I'm sure they will), then Xavi definitely should've been the one.

[DAF86]

Here I'll help you out...

Actually, it was more like...


Look at this argie thinking Messi has a chance, what a fucking homer

[DAF86]

Before the award was given I wanted Messi to win it but now I kind of wish Xavi would have won it, this Golden ball may cause some jelausy issues in the Barca locker room, specially with Iniesta.

[resistanze]

Before the award was given I wanted Messi to win it but now I kind of wish Xavi would have won it, this Golden ball may cause some jelausy issues in the Barca locker room, specially with Iniesta.

lol Iniesta was the one who shouldn't have been in the final 3.

[SAtown]

Actually, it was more like...

:tu You have the memory of an elephant.

[DAF86]

lol Iniesta was the one who shouldn't have been in the final 3.

I think so too but according to the rumours he was the one that was going to win, besides I don't know why he strikes me as the one guy that someday may end Barca's peaceful locker room, his relatives have already spoken about how it was an injustice that Messi won it over him.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

:lmao @ Messi today. 3 goals to say I told you so

[it's me]

Poor Messi, feeling the pressure of the “unjust” golden ball.

[ALVAREZ6]

Until this year, every year this award has existed, the award winner during a World Cup year has come from the World Cup winning team (Romario, Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro).

What I'm saying is expect Messi to match or even surpass his total form this year, along with additional team accomplishments (Barca didn't even win the Copa del Rey or CL this year). But I have a feeling they won't give it to Messi for several straight years. Messi is one of those rare players that will be in contention (top 3) every year he's healthy. So if they're gonna spread the wealth (which I'm sure they will), then Xavi definitely should've been the one.
I pretty much agree with this all, but FIFA awarding it to WC winners and not continuing the trend is due to the voting that occurred. Considering all factors, I would have probably given it to Xavi, or possibly Sneijder.

Anyway, this type of shit happens in awarding systems. They're not always the most accurate, and it can go both ways. I can easily see in the future, like you sort of mentioned, Messi not getting the award on a very deserving year simply because they want to share the wealth to someone with very similar accomplishments in the year. Whenever there is human voting involved, you can't expect the results to be the most accurate and appropriate, as we see all of the time with anything FIFA related. Also, the people that vote are all biased homers...I'd say that a small percentage of the voters voted completely objectively for something like this...a soccer award every player dreams of winning someday. It's another symbolic goal for these players to win, and you see how these dudes show their ridiculous biases in the media. Most soccer players have had ridiculous opinions on other teams and players, and many do continuously. The coaches as well. And these are the fuckers that are voting.

[ALVAREZ6]

Before the award was given I wanted Messi to win it but now I kind of wish Xavi would have won it, this Golden ball may cause some jelausy issues in the Barca locker room, specially with Iniesta.
I honestly don't think it will. All 3 of the players were happy just to be there with their teammates, the final 3 short list all from the same club, they are probably very happy with that.

Also, Barca is probably one of the most united clubs, throughout the entire organization, not just the players. They really have team chemistry. I doubt that Iniesta would be too jealous. Sure he might feel some negative feelings briefly, but they're all focused on continuing Barca dominance and they very well should be because they have a very strong core to continue and make history as one of the best clubs ever to play throughout a significant time. Plus, Xavi and Iniesta both know Messi is an amazing player and it helps that Leo is one of the most humble soccer superstars out there.

I doubt it'll be a problem.

[Brazil]

Why, because he didn't score a goal in that 1-month period of time in a very short tournament??? He played well, period, you are another victim of media bullshit.

He didn't play well, he was expecting to be the big star of this world cup he has been one of the very good players. Is he supposed to be the next Maradona or what ?

[ALVAREZ6]

He didn't play well, he was expecting to be the big star of this world cup he has been one of the very good players. Is he supposed to be the next Maradona or what ?
Is he supposed to be the next Maradona or what??? WTF does this even mean in your argument. I'll tell you ---> Nothing.

Messi has never said anything about hinting he's the next Maradona, he actually downplays that crap when it comes up. Journalists write about anything and everything, you should know this.


And he did play well. He didn't play spectacularly, nor did he play poorly. He simply didn't score a goal, largely because he took on a playmaking role. He did everything to create offense for the team. Don't talk about shit you didn't even watch, obviously. I watched every minute of every Argentina game. And in their first game vs. Nigeria, Messi had some really great shots that would go in 95% of the time, but the goalie was amazing that day. The article even talks about this:

http://blogs.bettor.com/FIFA-World-Cup-2010-Goal-Drought-for-Argentinas-Star-Player-Lionel-Messi,-Maradonna-says-Messi-is-as-Good-as-Me-a13613


However, that does not mean that Argentina is not facing any problems. Although they have scored many goals, and the team that beat Greece in the last match had many players from the bench, the major problem remains. Lionel Messi, the biggest star in the World Cup, has found it very hard to find the back of the net, so far in the tournament. Lionel Messi just had a brilliant season with his club Barcelona, with a record-breaking 47 goals in the season, but is failing to find any goals for his country.

This does not mean that Messi is not playing well at the moment, because he has shown some real class and quality in the three opening matches. He has made breath-taking runs and had a reasonable number of shots on goals, and also assisted his team-mates in making the chances. This drought of goals is not hurting Argentina, as Messi himself said that he would not care if the team keeps on winning, but it is hurting Messi. Many of the critics have pointed out that Messi does not play well for his country, where he has always failed to show his flair. These remarks have always been thrown towards Messi, despite the fact that he was the top scorer and top assist-maker for Argentina in the Qualifying campaign.

He didn't score a goal..so fucking what, he definitely showed up to play in that tournament.

[DAF86]

He didn't play well, he was expecting to be the big star of this world cup he has been one of the very good players. Is he supposed to be the next Maradona or what ?

He played well enough to be considered a top ten player of the tournament.

[Brazil]

u mad alvarez ? I've watched every game and guess what ? we agree 100%




And he did play well. He didn't play spectacularly, nor did he play poorly. He simply didn't score a goal, largely because he took on a playmaking role.

cool no ?

For the maradona stuff some homers bring this stuff not me and we already have a trillion posts about it.

I'm a fan of Messi like everybody who like football now IMHFO he has been a disappointment. You disagree ? good for you, i have no problem with your opinion unlike you.

[Brazil]

He played well enough to be considered a top ten player of the tournament.

honestly this is what you expected ? Messi being a top 10 player ? low ambition for the best player in the world

[ALVAREZ6]

u mad alvarez ? I've watched every game and guess what ? we agree 100%



cool no ?

For the maradona stuff some homers bring this stuff not me and we already have a trillion posts about it.

I'm a fan of Messi like everybody who like football now IMHFO he has been a disappointment. You disagree ? good for you, i have no problem with your opinion unlike you.

lol no I'm not mad, dude I really don't care about what people think of Messi, I see the thread title is "Messi=GOD" but us two were simply discussing how Messi played in the world cup. That is all.

You claim he played poorly, and I disagree and wondered if you even watched the games. All I said was simply for the fact that he didn't score a goal does not mean he didn't play well, and made my case. I just think your opinion is somewhat flawed, and you have to consider that in world cup play, the circumstances are totally different than at the club level. Different teams, players, coaches, very short time span...in the world cup you can't just expect the world's top 10 players to play that way, in that same order, for this tournament. It's just a totally different thing, anyone can step up especially considering how few games a team plays. Any given game, anyone can step up and play to potential or better, and obviously this happens in sports. Cristiano Ronaldo, another top player in the world, scored how many times... once?
:rolleyes

[DAF86]

honestly this is what you expected ? Messi being a top 10 player ? low ambition for the best player in the world

No, but it proves that he did play well.

[sonic21]

tbh, some people don't agree with Messi winning because of past awards. Guys like Cannavaro and Ronaldo won the GB only because of the WC and didn't deserve it. So when they see a more deserving guy like Xavi not winning in a WC year they don't understand.

[Brazil]

lol no I'm not mad, dude I really don't care about what people think of Messi, I see the thread title is "Messi=GOD" but us two were simply discussing how Messi played in the world cup. That is all.

You claim he played poorly, and I disagree and wondered if you even watched the games. All I said was simply for the fact that he didn't score a goal does not mean he didn't play well, and made my case. I just think your opinion is somewhat flawed, and you have to consider that in world cup play, the circumstances are totally different than at the club level. Different teams, players, coaches, very short time span...in the world cup you can't just expect the world's top 10 players to play that way, in that same order, for this tournament. It's just a totally different thing, anyone can step up especially considering how few games a team plays. Any given game, anyone can step up and play to potential or better, and obviously this happens in sports. Cristiano Ronaldo, another top player in the world, scored how many times... once?
:rolleyes

For one, I never said he played poorly I'm just saying it's an overall disappointing WC for Messi and Argentina. I was expecting a great performance and we got a nice performance.

I'm part of the guys who think if you want to be considered as one of the best players of the world you have to show that in the WC.

After France my favorite team has always been Argentina (check the WC threads I was rooting for them). I've seen all the games of 3 nations during the WC: France (not a big effort... lol France), Argentina and Germany. I love the argentinan football and my two favorites players are platini and maradona.

I'm rooting for Messi but he has to find a way to contribute to ANT at the same level than for Barcelona.

For the rest I consider Xavi the 2010 best player in the world not Messi.

[ALVAREZ6]

For one, I never said he played poorly I'm just saying it's an overall disappointing WC for Messi and Argentina.
Direct quote:

He didn't play well


I was expecting a great performance and we got a nice performance.

I'm part of the guys who think if you want to be considered as one of the best players of the world you have to show that in the WC.
But now we got a nice performance? Make up your mind, and this isn't even the point, this is: we are speaking about the WC in terms of how it can hurt your overall year in the sport. Other than the world cup, it's undeniable that Messi had an unbelievable year. Irrefutable. Playing well, as opposed to playing amazing, somehow takes away all that much from his overall performance during 2010?