Messi=GOD

[lefty]

Well as a football figure he's very relevant, he beat your beloved galacticos in the club's World cup back in the early 2000's.

Besides I posted it 'cause I was really shocked to hear this, according to diego everybody in Argentina laughs at the Messi/Maradona comparissons.
Ah ok

[DAF86]

Bump, imho.

http://www.fifa.com/ballondor/index.html

[AidanNelson2009]

Ronaldo > Messi, end of.

[ALVAREZ6]

Hat trick vs. Malaga.

[ALVAREZ6]

odvmqozvnys


but.. but but...Ronaldo is the more complete player!!! :cry Ronaldo is strong in the air :cry

[resistanze]

Based God Midget with the hat trick.

[DAF86]

odvmqozvnys


but.. but but...Ronaldo is the more complete player!!! :cry Ronaldo is strong in the air :cry

That's missing the best goal of the match tbh.


p4sWQ4h_alQ

[DAF86]

http://bucket.lanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/18/1487918.jpg

[DAF86]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/draft/ultimate/draft-results.html?sct=sc_t11_a1

[lefty]

http://bucket.lanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/18/1487918.jpg



King Leo my ass :lmao

Cant lead his team get past Osasuna without Xavi and Iniesta :lmao

Messi = GOD's bitch

[IronMexican]

How does anyone even watch the shit SPL? Real is in the clear by almost 20 points on 3rd.

[Kewni Leonard]

The tally: 24 to 23, Ronaldo. Despite not having Xavi and Iniesta setting him up.

[Jodelo]

Messi can´t win shit without Xavi, face it!

[Brazil]

possibly of all time :lmao

when a US mag is writing articles on soccer

[lefty]

possibly of all time :lmao

when a US mag is writing articles on soccer
:lol

[DAF86]

possibly of all time :lmao

when a US mag is writing articles on soccer

Not realizing that this kid at 24 years of age already has a resume to be argued among the truly greats of this sport :lmao

When French people living in Brazil refuse to accept reality.

P/S: This has been argued in magazines all around the world, not just from the US. Even Maradona himself has acknowledged that Messi deserves GOAT consideration.

[lefty]

Not realizing that this kid at 24 years of age already has a resume to be argued among the truly greats of this sport :lmao

When French people living in Brazil refuse to accept reality.

P/S: This has been argued in magazines all around the world, not just from the US. Even Maradona himself has acknowledged that Messi deserves GOAT consideration.
lol cant lead Barcuefa get past Osasuna without the 2 other midgets
lol Maradonna leading a shitty Napoli team to the Serie A title

lol cant win the WC with a stacked Argie team, while Maradonna has done it with a shitty team



GTFO :lmao

[DAF86]

lol cant lead Barcuefa get past Osasuna without the 2 other midgets
lol Maradonna leading a shitty Napoli team to the Serie A title

lol cant win the WC with a stacked Argie team, while Maradonna has done it with a shitty team



GTFO :lmao

Are we seriously going to do this all over again? Me posting stats and facts you making bullshit claims that aren't true (lol "you can't miss that even if you're blind set piece" :lmao)

[lefty]

bullshit claims ?


Those a re facts

[DAF86]

Burruchaga: One of the greatest Argie players ever
Ruggeri: One of the greatest Argie defenders ever
Bilardo: Arguably the greatest Argie coach ever.
Caniggia: One of the greatest Argie players ever.
Batistuta: Greatest Argie center forward ever.

Maradona won ONE tournament with Argentina in his career and that was at age 26 (Messi is 24 still) before that he was in a pretty similar situation to the one Messi is now.

Napoli wasn't a shitty team, they had a ton of money back then that's why the could buy Maradona and Careca among others to build that team.

He still couldn't win the Champions League.

[lefty]

Burruchaga: One of the greatest Argie players ever
Ruggeri: One of the greatest Argie defenders ever
Bilardo: Arguably the greatest Argie coach ever.
Caniggia: One of the greatest Argie players ever.
Batistuta: Greatest Argie center forward ever.

Maradona won ONE tournament with Argentina in his career and that was at age 26 (Messi is 24 still) before that he was in a pretty similar situation to the one Messi is now.

Napoli wasn't a shitty team, they had a ton of money back then that's why the could buy Maradona and Careca among others to build that team.

He still couldn't win the Champions League.
:rollin:rollin:rollin

[DAF86]

Why do you argue if you don't know shit about Argie football?

[Landon Donofag]

lol cant lead Barcuefa get past Osasuna without the 2 other midgets
lol Maradonna leading a shitty Napoli team to the Serie A title

lol cant win the WC with a stacked Argie team, while Maradonna has done it with a shitty team



GTFO :lmao

:rollin:rollin:lmao

lefty bringing the goods :toast

[jgome21]

Until Messi can do what he does for Barcelona on the International stage, I will not consider him the best player ever.

[it's me]

Until Messi can do what he does for Barcelona on the International stage, I will not consider him the best player ever.

Fair enough..... but dude is fucking unique and awesome... you can see he's on a different level not only for his generation... the fact that there's even a conversation about it shows how great he is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Fair enough..... but dude is fucking unique and awesome... you can see he's on a different level not only for his generation... the fact that there's even a conversation about it shows how great he is.

so how come he cant replicate that shit on the international stage

dont say coach and team is shit compared to barca...its not like pep is doing shit besides cockriding the team

[DAF86]

Maradona wasn't able to do shit on the international stage 'till he was 26, Messi is 24.

[lefty]

Maradona wasn't able to do shit on the international stage 'till he was 26, Messi is 24.

Well the WC is in 2 years, so Messi is gonna fail soon

[Whisky Dog]

Barca is at that level where they go through the motions against trash in the primera but when the CL or Copa matches come up they wake up and do things like win the first leg of group of 16 away by 3-1. After three straight league titles they took it for granted this year against the crap teams.

How Madrid can even consider themselves the champions when any time they go head up with Barca they get handled is beyond me, but such is life without playoffs.

[resistanze]

Well the WC is in 2 years, so Messi is gonna fail soon

I actually lol'd

[Kewni Leonard]

If Messi never wins a WC, not only is he not the best player of all-time(which is a fucking joke), but he becomes the most overrated footballer of all-time.

[Muser]

Not really. He needs a WC win to be put up at the top though.

[Kewni Leonard]

Not really. He needs a WC win to be put up at the top though.

He can't do anything without Xavi and Iniesta.

[Muser]

Who would you say is the GOAT?

[lefty]

Who would you say is the GOAT?
Not Lionel Mini

[Muser]

So who?

[lefty]

So who?
Pele of course

[Muser]

Pele had one of the most stacked teams of all time with those Brazil teams, why doesn't anybody bring this up?

(I'm not disagreeing, I just think if you're going to say Messi has a lot of help then you have to say Pele did)

[lefty]

Pele had one of the most stacked teams of all time with those Brazil teams, why doesn't anybody bring this up?

(I'm not disagreeing, I just think if you're going to say Messi has a lot of help then you have to say Pele did)
He did have talent around him, no question

Tostao, Rivellino, etc .....

But he was still an amazing impact player, and made the sickest plays I've ever seen

He also won a WC at 17 :D

[Kewni Leonard]

Who would you say is the GOAT?

Although I never saw Pele play, I would have to give it to him. As far as players I've seen, I know for certain OG Ronaldo was a better player; I have no question in my mind about that.

[DAF86]

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and personal preferences but to say that Messi beign argued in the GOAT discusion is a "joke" isn't honest or a misinformed opinion. Statistically he has had many of the greatest individual seasons ever and at age 24 is on the brink of breaking any record imaginable.

[ElNono]

:lol joshdaboss
:lol banned
:lol crynaldo
:lol federer

[Kewni Leonard]

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and personal preferences but to say that Messi beign argued in the GOAT discusion is a "joke" isn't honest or a misinformed opinion. Statistically he has had many of the greatest individual seasons ever and at age 24 is on the brink of breaking any record imaginable.

He plays on a super-team where he's spoon-fed goals. All he has to do is literally tap balls in most of the time.

[Kewni Leonard]

:lol joshdaboss
:lol banned
:lol crynaldo
:lol federer

I could understand laughing at Ronaldo, but what on Earth could you laugh at Federer about? He's undoubtedly the greatest player of all-time at his sport, a class act and extremely intelligent. The only thing you could laugh at, tbh, is his fat slob of a wife.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

He plays on a super-team where he's spoon-fed goals. All he has to do is literally tap balls in most of the time.

:lol do you even watch Barca play??

You just outed yourself with that statement. Quit talking out of your ass

[lefty]

He plays on a super-team where he's spoon-fed goals. All he has to do is literally tap balls in most of the time.

[Kewni Leonard]

:lol do you even watch Barca play??

You just outed yourself with that statement. Quit talking out of your ass

I've seen every single goal that Messi has scored. 90% of them come from his outstanding teammates that just overwhelm the opposition and nothing particularly spectacular that he does individually. This is also the reason he shot more than any player in the entire world cup and scored a total of ZERO times.

[TDMVPDPOY]

love the double standards that messi gets away with when his playin for barca or NT, then compared him to the other players, the excuse of playin with a shit team always comes up...

[Whisky Dog]

He plays on a super-team where he's spoon-fed goals. All he has to do is literally tap balls in most of the time.

Not only did you never watch Pele play, but you've obviously never watched Messi play. This is the single most wrong statement I've ever seen. It's so incredibly wrong it's inconceivable anything could be as wrong ever again. Messi manufactures more goals, and goals in traffic especially, through tough runs than anyone in the world.

[Muser]

He plays on a super-team where he's spoon-fed goals. All he has to do is literally tap balls in most of the time.

This is retarded. Xavi has 6 asissts in la liga and Iniesta has 4, Messi has 23 goals. How is that most of the time?

Also Messi has the most assists on the team so if anything he's the one doing the spoon feeding.

[TDMVPDPOY]

whats record of w-l when his not playin with the other 2 clowns?

[Kewni Leonard]

Not only did you never watch Pele play, but you've obviously never watched Messi play. This is the single most wrong statement I've ever seen. It's so incredibly wrong it's inconceivable anything could be as wrong ever again. Messi manufactures more goals, and goals in traffic especially, through tough runs than anyone in the world.

Cristiano Ronaldo says hello.

[Kewni Leonard]

This is retarded. Xavi has 6 asissts in la liga and Iniesta has 4, Messi has 23 goals. How is that most of the time?

Also Messi has the most assists on the team so if anything he's the one doing the spoon feeding.

How many world cup goals did he have... you know, when Xavi and Iniesta weren't there. When they were busy winning the world cup...

[Muser]

Are you seriously comparing Argentina to Spain?

[resistanze]

I don't think Messi is the GOAT but there's no way anyone can ignore the dozens of goals he's scored throughout the years out of nothing.

[DAF86]

Cristiano Ronaldo says hello.

Now THAT is a guy that gets most of his goal on taps in and penalties.

[Kewni Leonard]

Now THAT is a guy that gets most of his goal on taps in and penalties.

Not really. Ronaldo is a way better striker of the ball. How is Messi with his weak foot? Ronaldo's 'weak' foot is as strong as Messi's striking foot. Ronaldo scores way more spectacular goals than Messi.

[Kewni Leonard]

Are you seriously comparing Argentina to Spain?

Why do you think Spain beat Germany? (besides Muller being out)

I'll tell you, Xavi and Iniesta controlling the ball.

[DAF86]

Spain is Barca without Messi plus Casillas, Ramos and Xavi Alonso. Of course they're going to be a great team. If Messi was Spanish and Xavi/Iniesta Argentinian we would be talking about how Xavi/Iniesta isn't able to do what he does in Barca with Argentina.

[Muser]

Ronaldo hasn't done shit for Portugal, why does nobody bring this up either?

[ElNono]

:lol joshdaboss
:lol banned
:lol crynaldo
:lol federer

[Kewni Leonard]

Ronaldo hasn't done shit for Portugal, why does nobody bring this up either?

Because he didn't take the most shots in the world cup and score 0 goals.

[DAF86]

You're talking like if taking the most shots on football is like taking the most shots on basketball. To take a shot on football you have to create a chance first unless you're Ronaldo who just chunks it up from miedfield.

Messi=top ten player of the WC.

Ronaldo=not a top ten player of the WC.

[Jodelo]

Now THAT is a guy that gets most of his goal on taps in and penalties.

So, it's Ronaldo's fault that Messi can't score on a penalty? Good to know...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

DAF, you know you're getting trolled right?

[DAF86]

I don't know and I really don't care, tbh.

[Kewni Leonard]

Messi=top ten player of the WC.


HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO HE ISN'T. WTFFFFFF are you talking about?????

[Kewni Leonard]

DAF, you know you're getting trolled right?

This isn't trolling. The guy is overrated. He can't do shit without a stacked team feeding him easy opportunities.

[DAF86]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO HE ISN'T. WTFFFFFF are you talking about?????

http://www.fifa-games.com/2010-world-cup-golden-ball-award-candidates-and-winners/1791/

[DAF86]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO HE ISN'T. WTFFFFFF are you talking about?????

http://www.fifa-games.com/2010-world-cup-golden-ball-award-candidates-and-winners/1791/

If you knew about football you'd have known what I was talking about.

[sonic21]

imo platini, zidane, kopa are all better than him.

[lefty]

imo platini, zidane, kopa are all better than him.
Yes yes they are

[sonic21]

world cup SF > WC QF tbh

[DAF86]

imo no, no they aren't. Well, at least Zidane which is the one I saw. Who is Kopa?

[DAF86]

world cup SF > WC QF tbh

What an interesting remark, tbh.

[sonic21]

imo no, they aren't. Well, at least Zidane which is the one I saw. Who is Kopa?

the great real madrid with kopa, puskas and di stefano.
kopa won the golden ball (he's french).


What an interesting remark, tbh.

those are facts, all 3 went to the SF.

[Jodelo]

imo no, no they aren't. Well, at least Zidane which is the one I saw. Who is Kopa?

Especially Zidane is better... God, for once take Messi's dick out of your ass!

[DAF86]

Especially Zidane is better... God, for once take Messi's dick out of your ass!

You have a strange way of arguing, very angry like tbh.

[DAF86]

the great real madrid with kopa, puskas and di stefano.
kopa won the golden ball (he's french).

Is that his name? I never heard of him and I look "Kopa" on Google and I found nothing football related. Either way, I don't know how can you say he's better than Messi when you haven't seen him play.


those are facts, all 3 went to the SF.

No shit a WC SF is better than a WC QF, but that doesn't mean that a player that got to the semis is better than a player that got to the quarters. That could mean that a team that got to the semis is better than a team that got to the quarters and not even that is true all the time.

Under that reasoning Cannavaro is better than Messi, Cruyff, Platini, Kopa, etc.

[lefty]

Who gives a fuck, really





Balotelli shits on all those faggots

[Kewni Leonard]

http://www.fifa-games.com/2010-world-cup-golden-ball-award-candidates-and-winners/1791/

If you knew about football you'd have known what I was talking about.

Just goes to show the insane bias for Messi. He was EASILY the worst player of any star in the world cup. Also, this is about as meaningful as Kobe Bryant's all defensive first teams.

[DAF86]

Just goes to show the insane bias for Messi. He was EASILY the worst player of any star in the world cup. Also, this is about as meaningful as Kobe Bryant's all defensive first teams.

Dude, I doubt you watched all of Messi's games during the WC. Anyone that did knows that Messi played pretty damn well.

[Kewni Leonard]

Dude, I doubt you watched all of Messi's games during the WC. Anyone that did knows that Messi played pretty damn well.

Where do you get he played well from? He shot the most of any other player in the world cup and scored a total of 0 goals.

[DAF86]

I'm answering you 'cause this topic entertains me but if you're going to keep going with that same retarded argument I'm going to get bored, tbh.

By watching the games you realize Messi played well, if he didn't create something Argentina wouldn't attempt a shot on target, he participated in 7 of Argentina's 10 goals.

Bill Simmons twited this during the WC:


After watching Messi this year on Barca & now in the WC, I'm convinced he's better at soccer than any U.S. pro athlete is at anything.

http://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33/status/16796833550

That's 'cause he watched his games and liked what he saw. Yes, he may not be the biggest football expert but he still understood that what Messi was doing was good.

And anybody that saw him play and didn't just look at a retarded stat (which by the way, if anything is more indicative of good play than bad one) realized this.

[Kewni Leonard]

I'm answering you 'cause this topic entertains me but if you're going to keep going with that same retarded argument I'm going to get bored, tbh.

By watching the games you realize Messi played well, if he didn't create something Argentina wouldn't attempt a shot on target, he participated in 7 of Argentina's 10 goals.

Bill Simmons twited this during the WC:



http://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33/status/16796833550 (http://twitter.com/#%21/sportsguy33/status/16796833550)

That's 'cause he watched his games and liked what he saw. Yes, he may not be the biggest football expert but he still understood that what Messi was doing was good.

And anybody that saw him play and didn't just look at a retarded stat (which by the way, if anything is more indicative of good play than bad one) realized this.

All I heard was I'm linking the opinion of someone who doesn't even watch soccer to try to mask 0/31. As I said, he was the worst star player in the WC, by far.

Also LMFAO @ participated AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA he had 1 fucking assist in the world cup. Literally every single star player was better than Messi in the world cup in 2010.

[DAF86]

The best player in the World with another historic performance, tbh.

[Jodelo]

The best player in the World with another historic performance, tbh.

And he just played 5 minutes...

[lefty]

Only 4 goals ?

Ronaldo would have scored 8 penalties

[resistanze]

All tap ins, tbh

[Landon Donofag]

All tap ins, tbh
:tu

:wakeup

[lefty]

:tu

:wakeup

Just tap it in ...

[endrity]

I could be a troll like DAF is with Manu>Dirk, but I won't.

Messi is amazing, and arguably the best athlete in the world today. He's rewriting history books.

[it's me]

jviW1whYC4Y

The guy is something else... Argentine and not a flopper????.......... gotto admit that's nearly impossible.

[Phenomanul]

jviW1whYC4Y

The guy is something else... Argentine and not a flopper????.......... gotto admit that's nearly impossible.

Great video...

:tu

IMO that's what sets him apart... Messi tries to stay on his feet and complete plays instead of trying to get bailed out by the Referee... even when it's plainly obvious that he is being fouled...

[DAF86]

Messi with his first hat-trick for Argentina.

[lefty]

Nice hat-trick


Now if he could score goals in the WC and Copa America

[DAF86]

TsbPUVM1mdU

[Relevancy]

Nice hat-trick


Now if he could score goals in the WC and Copa AmericaHe will, he will finally get his shine in the upcoming WC.... don't worry.

[ace3g]

I guess scoring 5 goals in one match is noteworthy for this thread

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I thought it would be fun posting some of the comments about Messy after the 5 goals against Leverkusen


Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney on Twitter: (https://twitter.com/#%21/WayneRooney/status/177501243822968833) "Messi is a joke. For me the best ever."


BBC Sport Gary Lineker"26th goal in last 25 CL games, but Messi could never do it in PL....... Sorry should have made it clear I was being ironic. The greatest talent I have seen!!! Fella's a genius! Best ever by a distance in my life time!"





Manchester United striker Michael Owen on Twitter: (https://twitter.com/#%21/themichaelowen/status/177506734632484864) "Not old enough to see some of the greats but I can't believe anyone can have played the game of football as well as Messi."

[DAF86]

I guess all of those guys must be Barca's fans, Argies and/or football-ingorant Americans. :rolleyes

[DAF86]

At age 24 Messi tied Distefano with 49 goals in the Champions league.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Great video...

:tu

IMO that's what sets him apart... Messi tries to stay on his feet and complete plays instead of trying to get bailed out by the Referee... even when it's plainly obvious that he is being fouled...

tbf Messi doesn't dive and go for penalties because he knows he'll just miss them anyway.

[ginobili's bald spot]

But on a serious note, he's probably the GOAT. He just needs to handle shit on the international stage to cement his legacy.

[Muser]

Yeah if he can get some international achievements he's the GOAT.

[DAF86]

I don't think it's fair to compare players from different eras. Messi is by far the best I have ever seen but I can't tell if he truly is better than Maradona, Pele, etc.

What I can say is that he is without a doubt one of those few players that have clearly dominated his era. He's in that prestigious short list with Distefano, Pele, Maradona and maybe Cruyff, nobody else.

[Jodelo]

Messi for sure is someone special even know i don't like him. Could or is one of the best ever. For me, Zidane is still the best ever, got it done everywhere, that's what seperates him still from other guys.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

a few more comments in this article

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Wayne-Rooney-hails-Lionel-Messi-as-the-greatest-footballer-ever-as-Barcelona-star-scores-five-in-Champions-League-rout-article875413.html


Messi is a joke. For me the best ever" tweeted Manchester United and England star Rooney.It was the first time the Argentine - who completed his eighth hat-trick of the season for club and country - has hit five in a match and the first time one player has scored so many in a single Champions League game.

ITV pundits Graeme Souness, Ruud Gullit and Terry Venables also agreed that Messi was world football's best player of all time - at the age of just 24.
And England legend Gary Lineker added: "He plays a game with which we are not familiar."
Liverpool hero Terry McDermott tweeted: "I played in a great LFC team of the late 70s and early 80s which ruled Europe but I must say I think this Barcelona team would batter us."
The stars' tributes to Messi kept on coming via the micro-blogging site:
Rio Ferdinand: "Messi doesn’t look interested tonight....!!"
Jack Wilshere: "Its a pleasure to watch this guy."
Michael Owen: "Not old enough to see some of the greats but I can’t believe anyone can have played the game of football as well as Messi."
Steven Pienaar: "Barca are out of this world. Messi best player in the world."
Nicklas Bendtner: "Messi is too good to be real."

[DAF86]

Did you see the latest gem?


ouLdLleGBcE

[lefty]

Nice

[DAF86]

Barca's all-time leaders in scores

1- Messi - 234
2- Rodriguez - 232
3- Kubala - 194
4- Eto'o - 130
5- Rivaldo - 130

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Estad%C3%ADsticas_del_F%C3%BAtbol_Club_Barce lona#Jugadores_con_m.C3.A1s_goles_en_todas_las_com peticiones_oficiales

[DAF86]

Goals Messi accomplished in this game:

-Becoming Barca's top scorer
-Breaking Barca and his personal record of most goals in a season.
-Tying Barca and his personal record (shared with Ronaldo) of most goals in one La Liga tournament.
-Surpassing C.Ronaldo as the top scorer of this current edition of La Liga.

[DAF86]

http://cdn.tn.com.ar/sites/default/files/imagecache/nota-600x338/2012/01/14/5fa9.jpg
http://www.ole.com.ar/futbol-internacional/Messi-museo-premios-botines-nuevos_OLEIMA20120114_0067_5.jpg

[resistanze]

When do you propose, tbh.

[lefty]

When do you propose, tbh.
:lol

[DAF86]

He is THE MAN, he should propose.

[Roddy Beaubois]

:lol such a little fanboy

[endrity]

I saw the end of Maradonna's career, heard about Pele, but my eyes have seen nothing like Messi before.

I don't know that there is any athlete right now doing to his sport what Messi is.

[lefty]

He is THE MAN, he should propose.

Dont worry, he is a midget, you wont feel anything

[DAF86]

Dont worry, he is a midget, you wont feel anything

Dunno man, I've been told by many Madrid fans that he has hurt them very bad.

[lefty]

Dunno man, I've been told by many Madrid fans that he has hurt them very bad.

Point taken

[ALVAREZ6]

Messi = star of porn

[Phenomanul]

Goals Messi accomplished in this game:

-Becoming Barca's top scorer
-Breaking Barca and his personal record of most goals in a season.
-Tying Barca and his personal record (shared with Ronaldo) of most goals in one La Liga tournament.
-Surpassing C.Ronaldo as the top scorer of this current edition of La Liga.

At this rate he'll likely shatter C. Ronaldo's La Liga Single Season Scoring Record as well... making Ronaldo's claim to the "best Pichichi ever" very short lived...

[DAF86]

Messi's goal breakdown

Favourites victims

Atlético Madrid 18
Sevilla 14
R. Madrid 13 :lol
Racing Santander 12
Almeria 10
Osasuna 10
Zaragoza 10
Valencia 10
Mallorca 9
Athletic Club 8

Stadiums

Camp Nou 132
away 94
Neutral 8

parts of the body

left foot 185
right foot 37
head 10
chest 1
hand 1 :troll

Minutes of the game

1-15 -------- 20
16-30 ------- 37
31-45 ------- 41
46-60 --------31
61-75 --------29
76-90 --------75
overtime ------ 1

Outside/inside the box

inside 204
outside 27

assisters

Dani Alves 31
Xavi 24
Iniesta 17
Pedro 12
Henry 9
Adriano 6
Eto'o 6
Cesc 6
Deco 5
Ronaldinho 5

Set pieces

Penalties 21
free kicks 5

[lefty]

:lol @ Penaldo

[resistanze]

:lol @ Penaldo

:lmao

[resistanze]

Messi's goal breakdown


parts of the body

left foot 185
right foot 37
head 10
chest 1
hand 1 :troll


His chest goal numbers are unremarkable. Overrated, tbqh.

[DAF86]

His chest goal numbers are unremarkable. Overrated, tbqh.

To win a World cup final in overtime. :hat


6oU0vvyBAjo

[DAF86]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4208713/Barcelona-star-Lionel-Messi-hailed-as-footballs-best-ever-player.html

[lefty]

The Sun :lol
Least credible source in England :lol
Pique :lol
Pep :lol
Homers :lol
English still butthurt over Diego :lol

[DAF86]

Is just a Guardiola interview :lol With a video and all.

[Muser]

lol The Sun is garbage

[resistanze]

In all seriousness it's cool to be able to witness someone like Messi who's so dominant at his sport, whether or not he eventually goes down as the GOAT

[MmP]

Im gonna sound like a troll here, not my intention.

Messi is great, probably the best. But in order to be the best of all time he has to take Argentina all the way in a WC, there's the difference with Maradona. Diego took his NT by himself all the way. And thats why probably not all argentinians seem reluctant to take Messi as the best.

[lefty]

Im gonna sound like a troll here, not my intention.

Messi is great, probably the best. But in order to be the best of all time he has to take Argentina all the way in a WC, there's the difference with Maradona. Diego took his NT by himself all the way. And thats why probably not all argentinians seem reluctant to take Messi as the best.

Uhoh

Hide your wives and children


DAF86 is coming

[MmP]

DAF can say anything, which mostly will be true but I think he has the same thought in the back of his head

[DAF86]

Uhoh

Hide your wives and children


DAF86 is coming


DAF can say anything, which mostly will be true but I think he has the same thought in the back of his head


inb4 DAF86 thinks he will post something and will shit on you

Haha, deep down you know I make sense.

I have said many times I don't argue Messi/Maradona 'cause I have only seen Maradona play in his prime in films, which is not enough to get a conclusion about his play. Although my favorite football journalist, Juan Pablo Varsky (which by the way is a Boca fan) says that "Messi is the best Maradona all the time" meaning he is just as good as Maradona and more regular. But like I said, I can't/don't argue Messi/Maradona.

What I do argue is that the WC argument is bullshit. First, I don't think it's fair to consider team accomplishments to determine how good an individual is and much less a WC which is played every four years and you need a lot of things to succeed like a good coach, a good team and specially a whole lot of luck.

What if Messi was from Afghanistan? Should he win a WC for people to say that he's the GOAT?

The GOAT argument is pointless anyways, you can't compare Pele's era where the goal average was like 5/6 per game with today's era where it's 2 goals per game. What you can do is to see which players dominated each era and there the argument is a lot more clear: Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi.

[NewcastleKEG]

Best players I ever saw
- Ronaldo: 2 rings
- Zidane: 1 ring (robbed vs Italy)

Messi needs atleast 1 title

[DAF86]

:lol Comparing Basketball with football.

[DAF86]

I do it for the kids.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

DAF can say anything, which mostly will be true but I think he has the same thought in the back of his head

It always amazes me how easily Argentinians jump at the chance to throw every other member of the 1986 world cup national team under the bus in order to put Maradona on an unreachable pedestal. Almost as if they had some part of their pride riding on Maradona being the undisputed best of all time...

IMO Messi is already better than Maradona ever was. The WC argument is bullshit designed to misdirect by people that for some reason or other seem to think they've got something riding on the end result.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and say Messi is the best of all time, but IMO he's better than Maradona at least.

[Agloco]

tbh fwiw imo DAF86 does bring up some good points, especially the point about nationality.

Does the same argument exist if Messi hailed from Afghanistan?

Would he still need a ring, or do we give him a pass while citing the shitty quality of his national teammates?

On that note, would he be better validated if he kept up this pace while playing for Bate Borisov or Gay-taff, et al?

[MmP]

What I do argue is that the WC argument is bullshit. First, I don't think it's fair to consider team accomplishments to determine how good an individual is and much less a WC which is played every four years and you need a lot of things to succeed like a good coach, a good team and specially a whole lot of luck.
But Maradona's case is different. Argentina in 86 was almost out of that WC, the team was not working, the coach was very questioned about his tactics, Maradona was the best player back then but didn't have much respect overall because of '82 Maradona, there was a certain disbelif. To me there was 3 or 4 keys for Argentina to win that WC.
1) Defense picked up and got stronger
2) Burruchaga and Valdano were deadly in the area
3) Maradona

Point 3 alone stands out, Maradona was the huge factor out there and got Argentina of many troubles in differents instances of the cup. If not for him Argentina would never have gotten that WC.


Messi situation today is very similar to Maradona's prior to 1986. Questioned great player that still needs to probe things to his national team. That's what many Argentineans think today. They're not logical, of course. Messi is the best that, alone, should do it. But the country is not very much logical when it comes to sports. And I can see that.
Would it do it for you if you have great amount of talent around the best man in the sport and still can make it out of Quarter Finals?
Nowitzki's case comes to mind prior to 2011: Great player, but if no championship, no history.

Don't get me wrong, not other than me wants to see Messi out there holding WC's trophy. But if he never does he's not making into the hall of fame of Soccer.

By this Im not saying by any means that I support this thoughts, Im just viewing what I think many argentineans may have conflict when seeing his national team.


What if Messi was from Afghanistan? Should he win a WC for people to say that he's the GOAT?
It'd be different. Afhganistan is not obligated even to qualify to WC, Argentina must go all in every four years. Especially with the supporting cast it has.


The GOAT argument is pointless anyways, you can't compare Pele's era where the goal average was like 5/6 per game with today's era where it's 2 goals per game. What you can do is to see which players dominated each era and there the argument is a lot more clear: Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi.
I never comparad Pele, or any other era prior to Maradona's with Messi.
I personally think that Diego may struggle to find his way these days. Defenses are even more tight. Individually I may give the edge to Diego still, but Messi is only 24, so room for improvemnet is not lacking.

I only hope that Messi can take that weight out of his shoulders. Althogh I think he knows his country is demanding a WC. Brazil has 5 now. Argentina is running low with just two. And as leader he has that responsability.

[DAF86]

I don't know if the football HoF exists but if it does, Messi is already a lock. Cruyff and Distefano are both in that list of great players that dominated their era and they didn't win a WC.

[MmP]

my bad, by HOF I meant a place as one of the greatest athletes of all time. Diego is up there with Sampras, Jordan, Federer, Woods, etc.

[lefty]

At least Cruyff led his team to the WC Finals

Twice

[Jodelo]

At least Cruyff led his team to the WC Finals

Twice

:lol

DAF to the rescue in 3,2,1...

[MmP]

My intention is not downgrade Messi achivements, at all. Im simply trying to portray or show how many Argentineans feel. I think Messi is a great player, in the discussion of the best of all time. But one thing that make him a lock it'd be winning WC's. Good thing is that he's just 24...

[ALVAREZ6]

:lmao Messi could win 3 World Cups and Pele would still claim he is not the best ever because he hasn't matched Pele's ridiculous 47,569,123 goal count.

lol counting friendlies
lol counting pickup games
lol defense was nonexistent in his age
lol using one statistic to judge everything about a player's standing in the all time list and not considering anything else



Anyway, I don't think you can clearly say which of the 3 (Pele, Maradona, Messi) is the best when it's all said and done. They all played in very different environments. They're all obviously amazing, and likely marginally better than each other (however the true ranking is). Pele scored a shit ton of goals because games were high scoring in his time (less focus on defense), and he never played in Europe. There was more open space then with the quality of defending vs. now when most players are extremely athletic and as individuals and especially teams can cover the field very quickly. Let's be real, all sports are way more physically-intensive now compared to the 50s. Same goes for the NBA. You can play at a very high level of competition in basketball and not even be that great at the game. You just need to be super athletic. If I were to try to score on an NBA team of any era, without a doubt I would rather try to score on the best team from the 50s compared to the worst team in today's NBA. Pistol Pete is a legend, but I doubt he Both Diego and Messi played against top competition in Europe, people use Messi's consistency and dominance as arguments as they should, but again...he plays on what's likely the best team ever. Pistol Pete was a legend, but I doubt he could stay in front of the majority of current starting NBA point guards. I don't think any team in history would consistently beat this Barca team; they'd win the majority of the time. So while he was more consistent than Diego, Diego won championships with Napoli. To compare Messi with Maradona fairly, we should see Messi play on a lower quality team and see how he does. Of course that's very unlikely, Barca will be the only European team he plays for. He's either retiring there or in Argentina.

The point is, they all played in different environments; different teams and different eras of the sport. Could Maradona consistently dominate when surrounded by this Barca team? I think so. Could Pele? I think so. Could Maradona and Messi score tons of goals with Pele's teams against Pele's competition? Yes. Referring back to my point, I think the difference between these 3 is marginal.

[lefty]

:lol

DAF to the rescue in 3,2,1...
:lol

:lmao Messi could win 3 World Cups .

Well

Let's start with 1 ....

[ALVAREZ6]

Well

Let's start with 1 ....

Not saying he will, I think he most likely won't.

[DAF86]

v08hvGWJlnk&feature=related

[lefty]

Not saying he will, I think he most likely won't.
of course not

[DAF86]

:lol If Messi was Algerian I will still be saying the same things about him, I doubt lefty would.

[lefty]

:lol If Messi was Algerian I will still be saying the same things about him, I doubt lefty would.
Shit if Messi was Algerian, I would be trolling the shit out of every forum on teh internetz

[ALVAREZ6]

:lmao messi awkward "smile" at end of commercial
lmao advertising = waste of money

[lefty]

http://i.sofoot.com/IMG/img-photo-messi-et-le-vih-1322826104_x610_articles-150435.jpg

[Brazil]

Anyway, I don't think you can clearly say which of the 3 (Pele, Maradona, Messi) is the best when it's all said and done.

If you go like that you have to extend the list... and there is no more who is the best argument.

I don't think you can clearly say which of Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Cruyf, Platini, Ronaldo (not the ugly Portuguese), Franz B, Di Stefano etc... is the best when it's all said and done.

You have good arguments to say Messi is superior to Franz B ? Messi fans should already be very happy to have their boy in that kind of discussion.

oh and I also disagree on the wc argument is bs. The world cup is the most important achievement you can have, individual achievements in a world cup is what distinguishes you from the rest.

[Brazil]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

[velik_m]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

[lefty]

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

Because he almost went to the title game in 82 & 86

[Venti Quattro]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

When I was young and I was dreaming about being a football star like Platini... I was imagining myself the WC trophy not with the champion's league trophy

Well of course, in theory, winning the WC would probably bring the most pleasure of all trophies to anyone. Why? It's once every 4 years, and it's all about national pride. It's only natural. But think about it this way, the great players usually get 3 to 4 WCs to play in if they're lucky...players like Messi who started playing at a high level at a young age, and players that stay healthy. If you're injured for one of those years, you may only play in 2 world cups. And that's asking a lot to win it all in one of those years.

On the other hand, imagine a player has literally all of the technical skills as Pele or Maradona, but plays for Russia. You can't penalize him for not getting it done on the international level, while at the same time glorify Pele for winning with the best teams in the world.




I've just always hated the "championships/rings argument" for any sport. For most people, Phil Jackson is a strictly better coach than Pop even though he coached Jordan and Pippen in a weak NBA, and then won some more with 2 top 10 players of all time in Kobe and Shaq. Any coach with Shaq and Kobe would have won those rings, you simply couldn't stop Shaq in his prime and oh yeah, that young athletic version of Kobe was pretty damn good too.

Pop has been getting it done year after year; the Spurs have always been contenders for more than a decade. Year after year he makes some changes, Manu and Tim are TOSB versions of themselves, and they're still a top 2 team in the west, and could even finish 1st. I don't think you can say that one is definitely better than the other (Pop vs. Phil). Most people will look at their accolades and see that Phil has 11, Pop 4...well next question, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pop. But we should be smart enough to consider all factors, the full context, and give a better analysis.

[ALVAREZ6]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please :lol

Pastore, Messi, Aguero/Tevez (one starts, other subs, too similar to start both), and probably Di Maria (he's getting better) all need to be in the attack. Messi can't be the only playmaker. Messi needs to have energy to go on multiple runs throughout the game, and his runs rely on pure acceleration, speed, and ball control, and all of those things require a great amount of energy being used at once. I think that's why we don't see as many amazing runs when in the Argentina team...because he is the center attacking piece. He's not exactly a Maradona.

I would consider this formation, where Messi would be free to roam and Pastore can move forward more. Or, I would move Higuain out and move Tevez/Aguero up front and have Messi on the right wing like he used to play for Barca and put Pastore in the middle. But they need some sort of height for heading crosses, and Di Maria can cross the ball well.


Higuain
Di Maria Messi Aguero/Tevez
Gago Pastore
Scrub Mascherano Campagnaro Zabaleta


Cambiasso, Zanetti, Samuel are old now for the 2014 WC...

[sonic21]

what about a 4-2-3-1

--------Messi
Aguero Pastore Di Maria

and 2 defensive midfields.

[lefty]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please :lol
Messi as a striker and Maradonna= GOD as the playmaker

[Brazil]

Say what? If WC trophy is a measurement of greatness why is Platini being discussed?

:lol

you missed the point. I said Platini because I'm a fan not because Platini is a good argument.

The point was that the WC is what every kids are dreaming for, so saying that being successful in a WC is not a decisive argument to consider the greatness of a player is dumb imho because the WC is the most important competition.

[Brazil]

Well of course, in theory, winning the WC would probably bring the most pleasure of all trophies to anyone. Why? It's once every 4 years, and it's all about national pride. It's only natural. But think about it this way, the great players usually get 3 to 4 WCs to play in if they're lucky...players like Messi who started playing at a high level at a young age, and players that stay healthy. If you're injured for one of those years, you may only play in 2 world cups. And that's asking a lot to win it all in one of those years.

On the other hand, imagine a player has literally all of the technical skills as Pele or Maradona, but plays for Russia. You can't penalize him for not getting it done on the international level, while at the same time glorify Pele for winning with the best teams in the world.




I've just always hated the "championships/rings argument" for any sport. For most people, Phil Jackson is a strictly better coach than Pop even though he coached Jordan and Pippen in a weak NBA, and then won some more with 2 top 10 players of all time in Kobe and Shaq. Any coach with Shaq and Kobe would have won those rings, you simply couldn't stop Shaq in his prime and oh yeah, that young athletic version of Kobe was pretty damn good too.

Pop has been getting it done year after year; the Spurs have always been contenders for more than a decade. Year after year he makes some changes, Manu and Tim are TOSB versions of themselves, and they're still a top 2 team in the west, and could even finish 1st. I don't think you can say that one is definitely better than the other (Pop vs. Phil). Most people will look at their accolades and see that Phil has 11, Pop 4...well next question, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pop. But we should be smart enough to consider all factors, the full context, and give a better analysis.

I understand your logic but Messi is not playing for Russia or Australia he is playing for a great NT winner of 2 WC with a prestigious pedigree and always in the list of the contenders to win a WC.

I was rooting for Argentina during the last WC, I've always been a fan of Argentina and IMO the team that played in South Africa was not a team full of scrubs, they were some damn good players starting with Messi. Messi should have dominated this WC like he is dominating the champion's league. He didn't do that.

Did he play well ? yes. Is he responsible for the team not winning a WC ? no. Did he make a case during this WC to be considered better than Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo... ? no. Does he have the time and the talent to do that ? yes. Up to him to show the world he is the best during a WC.

and no I'm not saying he needs to win one. As mentioned by Lefty, Cruyff never won a WC but he definitely closed the discussion about his greatness during this competition.

[DAF86]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.

[DAF86]

What would be an ideal Argentina team for Messi to win the WC? No idiot Barcelona answers please :lol


Romero

Zabaleta Mascherano/Fernandez Coloccini Rojo

Braña Alvarez/Mascherano

Aguero Messi Di Maria

Higuain

If you want more defense and air game, play Fernandez in the back and Masch in the middle. If you want more playmaking ability go with Masch in the back and Ricky Alvarez in the middle.

No matter what team, Argentina should always play with a high defensive line and pressuring in the other team's half like all big teams do but with Alejandro "the chicken" Sabella we'll never see that.

[Brazil]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.

what?

[DAF86]

That Messi deserves a WC and the Argentine football (from the political leaders, to the coaches and to a lesser extent his teammates or lack of quality ones in key areas) don't give him a fair chance to succeed on that competiton. Blaming Messi for Argentina not winning the WC is like blaming condoms for people getting AIDS.

[lefty]

:lmao

[Jodelo]

If Argentina winning a WC depended only on Messi, we would have won a WC a long time ago by now.


That Messi deserves a WC and the Argentine football (from the political leaders, to the coaches and to a lesser extent his teammates or lack of quality ones in key areas) don't give him a fair chance to succeed on that competiton. Blaming Messi for Argentina not winning the WC is like blaming condoms for people getting AIDS.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ALVAREZ6]

I understand your logic but Messi is not playing for Russia or Australia he is playing for a great NT winner of 2 WC with a prestigious pedigree and always in the list of the contenders to win a WC.

I was rooting for Argentina during the last WC, I've always been a fan of Argentina and IMO the team that played in South Africa was not a team full of scrubs, they were some damn good players starting with Messi. Messi should have dominated this WC like he is dominating the champion's league. He didn't do that.

Did he play well ? yes. Is he responsible for the team not winning a WC ? no. Did he make a case during this WC to be considered better than Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo... ? no. Does he have the time and the talent to do that ? yes. Up to him to show the world he is the best during a WC.

and no I'm not saying he needs to win one. As mentioned by Lefty, Cruyff never won a WC but he definitely closed the discussion about his greatness during this competition.

That's fair. The defense and coaching blows though. CROFL Maradona as coach :lol who left out Zanetti, Cambiasso from the team (I know it's not a huge difference, but he brought some questionable players over them and it's stupid to omit Zanetti when the defenders were not good).

Football is such a competitive sport, especially at a WC, that you need everything to win it all now. Spain had that...no weaknesses on the field, and a good coach. You simply can't win a WC anymore without big weaknesses and without a good coach.

[Brazil]

That's fair. The defense and coaching blows though. CROFL Maradona as coach :lol who left out Zanetti, Cambiasso from the team (I know it's not a huge difference, but he brought some questionable players over them and it's stupid to omit Zanetti when the defenders were not good).

Football is such a competitive sport, especially at a WC, that you need everything to win it all now. Spain had that...no weaknesses on the field, and a good coach. You simply can't win a WC anymore without big weaknesses and without a good coach.

That I agree 100% Maradona coach was a terrible terrible idea tbh... but he was still better than Domenech fwiw:lol

[ElNono]

The lack of defenders in this generation of Argentina's football cannot be understated though... A country that once upon a time fielded guys like Passarella, Trossero, Olguin, Ruggeri, Brown, Simon, Bauza, Sensini, Caceres, Sorin, Samuel, even Zanetti (who's a shell of his former self)...

When you drop down to the likes of Heinze and Burdisso, you're toast. I really like a couple of guys from the U19, but it's gonna take a while until they make it to the top team.

[Venti Quattro]

Sabella clears up Messi puzzle (http://www.espnstar.com/football/primera-liga/news/detail/item782297/Sabella-clears-up-Messi-puzzle/)

Argentina coach Alejandro Sabella believes strict refereeing in Spanish club football has allowed Lionel Messi to flourish into the world's best player.

The three-time Ballon d'Or winner is undoubtedly the greatest player of his generation but the debate - largely fueled by the Argentinean's shortcomings with the national team - on whether Messi is the greatest of all time continues to rage on.

On 20 March 2012, Messi scored three goals for Barca in a win against Granada to surpass Cesar Rodriguez's mark of 232 goals to become the club's leading scorer. In contrast, Messi currently averages a goal in every three games for Argentina.

"In Spain the referees are stricter with physical play. In contrast, in South America they are more permissive," Sabella told Radio Sport Telam.

"If you play there [in Spain], there are more yellow and red cards and that is why Messi is better in Spain than when wearing the Argentina shirt.

"The best thing is that Messi is Argentine because he is a true ambassador of our country. He helps us on the field and makes us look good off it with his exemplary behaviour."

However, Sabella was keen to stress that the obvious qualities of Messi at club level should not be overshadowed by his comparatively lesser achievements on the international stage. In fact, Sabella says that Messi is so good that The Royal Academy of Spain - an institution responsible for regulating the Spanish language - should invent a new word to describe the player's talent.

"The Royal Academy of Spain should invent a word to define him [Lionel Messi] exactly. For me, as his coach, it is a privilege to direct him," Sabella said.

On Tuesday, Messi became the outright holder of the record for most goals in a single UEFA Champions League campaign after scoring the first of his two penalties in Barcelona's 3-1 quarter-final triumph against AC Milan.

Messi's current haul of 14 goals beat Ruud van Nistelrooy's previous tally of 12 goals registered back in 2002/03 for Manchester United.

Take that, UEFAlona conspiracy theorists!!! :lmao

[Brazil]

The lack of defenders in this generation of Argentina's football cannot be understated though... A country that once upon a time fielded guys like Passarella, Trossero, Olguin, Ruggeri, Brown, Simon, Bauza, Sensini, Caceres, Sorin, Samuel, even Zanetti (who's a shell of his former self)...

When you drop down to the likes of Heinze and Burdisso, you're toast. I really like a couple of guys from the U19, but it's gonna take a while until they make it to the top team.

Heinze is solid like very solid imho

[DAF86]

Heinze is solid like very solid imho

lol no. He's awful like very very awful.

[DAF86]

Specially as a left back which is where he was mostly used in Argentina.

[sonic21]

heinze was solid when he was playing for psg. That's why ManU wanted him (or Real, i don't remember). it was a long time ago though. With Marseille, he was above average at best.

[DAF86]

In Argentina he was always awful. He was that player that everybody complained about yet the coaches always played no matter what. Kinda like Bonner or Blair :lol

[Brazil]

heinze was solid when he was playing for psg. That's why ManU wanted him (or Real, i don't remember). it was a long time ago though. With Marseille, he was above average at best.

Heinze was a very solid player in Paris and a leader

[lefty]

Heinze needs to add some mustard to his game

[NewcastleKEG]

Not buying all the ''Argentina isn't good enough for Messi excuses''

Zidane managed with France

[Brazil]

Not buying all the ''Argentina isn't good enough for Messi excuses''

Zidane managed with France

that's a valid point... France 2006 was not one of the teams of the century tbh.

They went to the final despite the coach, Domenech :lol not worst than maradona but not by far.

[NewcastleKEG]

that's a valid point... France 2006 was not one of the teams of the century tbh.

They went to the final despite the coach, Domenech :lol not worst than maradona but not by far.
Yeah & France completely fell off the map when he retired

[sonic21]

France 2006 had a D of Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram and Abidal with Makelele and Viera in the midfield ( viera being the best french player in this WC, zidane only played well 2-3 games and fucked up at the end), That's why they were elite. Not because of Zidane.

Argentina needs a D first.

[lefty]

that's a valid point... France 2006 was not one of the teams of the century tbh.

They went to the final despite the coach, Domenech :lol not worst than maradona but not by far.
I agree

[MaNuMaNiAc]

France 2006 had a D of Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram and Abidal with Makelele and Viera in the midfield ( viera being the best french player in this WC, zidane only played well 2-3 games and fucked up at the end), That's why they were elite. Not because of Zidane.

Argentina needs a D first.

This.

[lefty]

Making excuses for Messi :lol


Maradona had decent defensive players in 86, but midfields and forwards were not star players

Messi is playing with star forwards and midfielders, but average defensive players


At the end of the day, things even out



So yeah, stop making excuses for Messi

[DAF86]

:lol Burruchaga and Valdano not star players

[lefty]

:lol Burruchaga and Valdano not star players
Decent, but not stars compared to Higuain, Aguerro, Di Maria, etc ...



Try again :lol

[DAF86]

You would have a hard time trying to argue that Burruchaga and Valdano aren't on those kids league in Argentina.

lol pulling "try again" like if you knew what the fuck you're talking about :lol

[lefty]

You would have a hard time trying to argue that Burruchaga and Valdano aren't on those kids league in Argentina.

lol pulling "try again" like if you knew what the fuck you're talking about :lol
Valdano

Burruchaga




:lmao

[DAF86]

"youcan'tmissevenifyou'reblindsetpiece" :lol

[Brazil]

France 2006 had a D of Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram and Abidal with Makelele and Viera in the midfield ( viera being the best french player in this WC, zidane only played well 2-3 games and fucked up at the end), That's why they were elite. Not because of Zidane.

Argentina needs a D first.

Sagnol was a nice player but not a monster, I'd say decent in a contender squad.
Gallas was still good
Thuram was not anymore 98 thuram at 34 y/o but he brought experience
Abidal :lol great in spain I guess never be a great international
Makele at 33 y/o was still good
Viera was beastin' I agree

:lol Zidane played well 2/3 games, he had maybe the best game of his career against Brazil, we never would have defeated Brazil without that performance.

The squad had what ? 3 stars ? zidane, viera and henry.. Try to rank France 2006 among the best finalist teams in terms of talent, they dont crack the top 10.

[Brazil]

Oh and except for Zidane I don't see much more talents in France 2006 compared to Argentina 2010 tbh

[DAF86]

Oh and except for Zidane I don't see much more talents in France 2006 compared to Argentina 2010 tbh

I would kill to have that defense in Argentina, and those center miedfielders. And a coach that uses the 4-2-3-1 formation. That's the formation I think would suit best our players and no Argie coach ever tried it.

[russellgoat]

soccer=shit.

[lefty]

soccer=shits on me.

[sonic21]

Sagnol was a nice player but not a monster, I'd say decent in a contender squad.
Gallas was still good
Thuram was not anymore 98 thuram at 34 y/o but he brought experience
Abidal :lol great in spain I guess never be a great international
Makele at 33 y/o was still good
Viera was beastin' I agree

:lol Zidane played well 2/3 games, he had maybe the best game of his career against Brazil, we never would have defeated Brazil without that performance.

The squad had what ? 3 stars ? zidane, viera and henry.. Try to rank France 2006 among the best finalist teams in terms of talent, they dont crack the top 10.

I was comparing with the argie NT. Having an alltime top player doesnt mean you can contend( except italy 94 with baggio carrying them to the finale).
As for zidane i agree his performance against brazil was awsome, even against italy he was great.

[diego]

The lack of defenders in this generation of Argentina's football cannot be understated though... A country that once upon a time fielded guys like Passarella, Trossero, Olguin, Ruggeri, Brown, Simon, Bauza, Sensini, Caceres, Sorin, Samuel, even Zanetti (who's a shell of his former self)...

When you drop down to the likes of Heinze and Burdisso, you're toast. I really like a couple of guys from the U19, but it's gonna take a while until they make it to the top team.

This. Even though I dont think Heinze or Burdisso are that terrible, they have been terrible lately, and for 2010 we had a terrible defense, both in terms of personnel and the system. Demichelis is much more terrible than them IMO. People love to hate on Maradona, but he tried literally hundreds of players, and all people cling to is Zanetti- a player I really like and respect- but who was already old and not going to fix the problem (central defense). By trying so many players Maradona all but ensured we would not defend well as a team, and individually we sucked, therefore, we sucked. Maradona tried to go all in with the attack and it didnt work, but given the players and time available Im not sure if there was a better option.

Having a poor defense in the WC is a recipe for disaster. Teams with good D always overachieve, teams with bad D seldom do. Everyone thinks of Brazil as winning on pure offense, but the Pele teams had some great defenders on them, 94 was a defense team, even the 02 team had a very solid D.

Bottomline Messi has only had one chance- 2010- and he played good, not great. IMO it was always going to take a small miracle for that team to win, the only way was if they were able to be really efficient finishing up front and the fact of the matter is they were barely able to get 3-4 chances vs. Germany and they failed to capitalize on any of them. Still, I cant see how anyone can argue Argentina underachieved in 2010- we hadn't finished any better since 1990, and in the run up to the WC we looked even worse. In an elimination tournament, I'd rather lose 7-0 trying to win than 1-0 saving face.

Also, though not as big of a problem as defense, all of Argentina's offensive talent is redundant, we dont have any big striker or aerial game period. And as most every european champ ever has shown, it is very important to have players that can put pressure on the defense in free kicks and corners. When messi, aguero, di maria, tevez or any of those guys gets fouled or forces a corner, we are hard pressed to capitalize on it, and that's a problem that goes back all the way to 2008. Its easy to forget that vs Germany, Argentina had more possession, more shots on goal, and more corners. And when things get tight, you are practically forced to either look for a cross or shoot from outside; it really helps to have at least one forward with an aerial game. I cant even remember the last time argentina scored on a corner kick.

I think the next WC, barring injury, will be Messi's best chance to prove himself; championship or not, he has to play great.

Last thought- WC success is not formulaic and upsets happen, you have to factor health, luck, the rhythm of the players (both teams), the ref... and it is harder for a guy like Messi to do his thing when he relies so much on his dribble- part of the reason he is amazing is that he is able to consistently do it, but in 5-8 games anything can happen

[diego]

baggio 94 was extremely lucky, bulgaria should have beat them. Italy 06 was also extremely lucky. in the WC shit happens and in 94 and 06 Italy was very lucky (unlike in 02, when they were on the other end of it)

[diego]

to be fair i should add that in 90 and to a lesser extent 86 maradona's argentina teams had a good bit of luck too

[lefty]

Good thread

[lefty]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5183/daf1z.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2048/daf2q.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4283/daf3.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9759/daf4.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/578/1234931504682.jpg

[DAF86]

:lol self-propaganda, that's a new low lefty.

[ALVAREZ6]

Also, though not as big of a problem as defense, all of Argentina's offensive talent is redundant, we dont have any big striker or aerial game period. And as most every european champ ever has shown, it is very important to have players that can put pressure on the defense in free kicks and corners. When messi, aguero, di maria, tevez or any of those guys gets fouled or forces a corner, we are hard pressed to capitalize on it, and that's a problem that goes back all the way to 2008. Its easy to forget that vs Germany, Argentina had more possession, more shots on goal, and more corners. And when things get tight, you are practically forced to either look for a cross or shoot from outside; it really helps to have at least one forward with an aerial game. I cant even remember the last time argentina scored on a corner kick.


LMAO I actually think last WC Argentina scored on a corner...and it was either Demichelis, Heinze, or one of the other horrible, horrible defenders that did not deserve a goal :lol. LMAO, on top of being slower than my mother, Demichelis made so many big mental mistakes, the defending was atrocious...they were lucky more goals weren't scored.

[ALVAREZ6]

TGrA-1vrFFw

0QiqGM7Babc
lmao, turns out I was correct with both of them, but Demi's goal was a rebound, and Heinze's was pretty good but it wasn't a contested header :lol.

goddamn it thinking about these scrubs is making laugh and i don't know why



lmao, in the Heinze goal I think it's Samuel who does a great job playing the offensive tackle, blocking the defenders :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

I wonder if all of the fools saying Messi had a poor WC because he failed to score believe Demichelis played better than Messi did for his shitty rebound goal :lol...

[Brazil]

I wonder if all of the fools saying Messi had a poor WC because he failed to score believe Demichelis played better than Messi did for his shitty rebound goal :lol...

By his standards yes he has a poor WC and it has nothing to do with scoring goals. When you are the "so-called" best player in the world the minimum is to be the best player during the WC or at least the be close to that.

[lefty]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5183/daf1z.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2048/daf2q.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4283/daf3.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9759/daf4.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/578/1234931504682.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

Pele: If Messi wants to be the best ever first he must become better than Neymar (http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/82/south-america/2012/04/10/3027106/pele-if-messi-wants-to-be-the-best-ever-first-he-must-become)

Brazilian football idol Pele has restated his belief that Neymar is a better player than Barcelona star Lionel Messi, and argued that the Argentine must first overcome the young Santos star before he can challenge 'O Rei' as the greatest to ever play the game.

The three-time World Cup winner was speaking on Tuesday at a press conference marking Santos' centenary celebrations in April 2012. Never shy about publicizing the ability of Neymar to the press, the 71-year-old pushed the youngster ahead of Messi in his list of the world's current stars.

"Now everyone is talking about Messi, he is a star. But [to be the best ever] he must first become better than Neymar," he asserted. "At the moment Messi is just more experienced."

The Brazilian also played down the public feud he has allegedly maintained with Diego Maradona, insisting that there is no bad blood between the two men.

"You [journalists] are always saying that I am Maradona's rival, but it is not true. I was never his rival, and he was a great attacking midfielder," the legend explained.

Seriously, Neymar? :lmao :rollin :lmao :rollin :lmao

:lmao Pele
:lmao counting every goal since you were born
:lmao envious of GOD
:lmao insecure of GOD

[lefty]

Retarded argument from Pele

He still shits on Messi though

[DAF86]

By his standards yes he has a poor WC and it has nothing to do with scoring goals. When you are the "so-called" best player in the world the minimum is to be the best player during the WC or at least the be close to that.

He didn't have a poor WC by any standars.

[DAF86]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5183/daf1z.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2048/daf2q.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4283/daf3.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9759/daf4.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/578/1234931504682.jpg


Nobody gave a shit before nobody will now :lol

[lefty]

Nobody gave a shit before nobody will now :lol

Dont worry I will repost it regularly

[resistanze]

:lmao

[Brazil]

He didn't have a poor WC by any standars.

how so ?
I don't think you will argue (I would but you wouldn't) against the fact he is the best player in the world in 2010. Has he been the best player of the WC?

[NewcastleKEG]

2006 World Cup will always hold a special place in my heart. I was in Deutschland for the whole games. Greatest sports atmosphere I've ever encourtered

SvYlvkWpPy4

[DAF86]

how so ?
I don't think you will argue (I would but you wouldn't) against the fact he is the best player in the world in 2010. Has he been the best player of the WC?

So because he wasn't the best player of the tournament he had a poor performance? That's poor reasoning.

[DAF86]

2006 World Cup will always hold a special place in my heart. I was in Deutschland for the whole games. Greatest sports atmosphere I've ever encourtered

SvYlvkWpPy4

And that has to do with Messi because...?

[ElNono]

Just to get this thread back on topic...

x72JbwyROOo

[NewcastleKEG]

kvPRYDruLfI

[Jodelo]

2006 world cup will always hold a special place in my heart. I was in deutschland for the whole games. Greatest sports atmosphere i've ever encourtered

svylvkwppy4

Goat!

[diego]

that vid you posted Nono has some nice plays, but what obnoxious editing!

1) dribbling past someone / drawing a foul is not equivalent to humiliation, the only humiliation there was Roberto Carlos tripping over himself, and maybe Sergio Ramos getting smoked only to sprint 30 meters back for a frustration foul (though that is more Ramos being pathetic than messi humiliating him)

2) more than half the players shown aren't great players

3) even the most ridiculous play cant be humiliating in a friendly or a practice, only real matches count

4) don't even get me started on the music

sorry, it just annoys me this mentality that getting juked is humiliating; its akin to the "posterized!!1!" stupidity. Its just part of the game, and if you haven't been juked, you either aren't defending or are playing vs kindergarteners.

falling on your ass by yourself (on defense, or offense like CR :lol), or being toyed with without getting hit are different stories. But toying with a defender is the mark of a stupid player, and I'm glad that messi doesnt do that (a la Neymar).

[Brazil]

So because he wasn't the best player of the tournament he had a poor performance? That's poor reasoning.

Because he was not the best player of the tournament and it was not even close while supposedly better than maradona at his age and already by your own evaluation one of the greatest of all time. Maradona is just considered one of the two greatest player of all time that says a lot on how high you consider Messi.

If you were not disappointed by his performance during this WC you should review how great you are considering him.

Even a random fan like me who considers him as a great player of his generation probably the greatest but don't consider he is yet in the conversation with the big boys has been surely disappointed by his WC.

Don't come after telling us that you were disappointing by Tony Parker performance against Memphis. By your logic Tony didn't have a poor PO performance last year. Guess what, I consider Tony had a poor PO performance last year. BTW I don't consider we lost because of him, we lost because Grizz was the better team. Like I don't consider Argentina lost because of Messi but I do consider he has a poor WC.

You're biased as fuck when you talk about Messi tbh.

[Brazil]

And that has to do with Messi because...?

because in 2006, a true great player (Zidane) carried his team to the final when in 2010 Messi has not been capable to do that

[DAF86]

Because he was not the best player of the tournament and it was not even close while supposedly better than maradona at his age and already by your own evaluation one of the greatest of all time. Maradona is just considered one of the two greatest player of all time that says a lot on how high you consider Messi.

If you were not disappointed by his performance during this WC you should review how great you are considering him.

Even a random fan like me who considers him as a great player of his generation probably the greatest but don't consider he is yet in the conversation with the big boys has been surely disappointed by his WC.

Don't come after telling us that you were disappointing by Tony Parker performance against Memphis. By your logic Tony didn't have a poor PO performance last year. Guess what, I consider Tony had a poor PO performance last year. BTW I don't consider we lost because of him, we lost because Grizz was the better team. Like I don't consider Argentina lost because of Messi but I do consider he has a poor WC.

You're biased as fuck when you talk about Messi tbh.

No, I'm not. You on the other hand...


because in 2006, a true great player (Zidane) carried his team to the final when in 2010 Messi has not been capable to do that

.... saying shit like this, prove that you are. Either that or you're just dumb at analyzing football. Or trolling, that's a possibility too.

Zidane is great but so is Messi and if you ask every person in the World the vast majority will tell you that Messi is better than Zidane.

I guess Rooney, Owen and all those millions and millions of guys that say that Messi is the best ever or in the conversation are all biased.

[Brazil]

No, I'm not. You on the other hand...



.... saying shit like this, prove that you are. Either that or you're just dumb at analyzing football. Or trolling, that's a possibility too.

Zidane is great but so is Messi and if you ask every person in the World the vast majority will tell you that Messi is better than Zidane.

I guess Rooney, Owen and all those millions and millions of guys that say that Messi is the best ever or in the conversation are all biased.

:lol So you answer the post where I was trolling a bit and nothing for the rest. It was an easy one tbh.

Yes you are biased as fuck.

I guess millions and millions of guys (btw you have a link ?) that see Messi in the conversation were not disappointed by his great 2010 WC.

[DAF86]

I didn't care to answer that argument 'cause I already did earlier in this thread and also becuase it's a retarded one, tbh.

[lefty]

:lol So you answer the post where I was trolling a bit and nothing for the rest. It was an easy one tbh.

Yes you are biased as fuck.

I guess millions and millions of guys (btw you have a link ?) that see Messi in the conversation were not disappointed by his great 2010 WC.
:lol

[Brazil]

I didn't care to answer that argument 'cause I already did earlier in this thread and also becuase it's a retarded one, tbh.

You (and millions and millions, still waiting for the link btw) consider he is one of the greatest player of all time and you (and millions and millions) are perfectly happy with his 2010 WC ? :lol

You are one of the biggest homer of this board without a question.

[lefty]

You (and millions and millions, still waiting for the link btw) consider he is one of the greatest player of all time and you (and millions and millions) are perfectly happy with his 2010 WC ? :lol

You are one of the biggest homer of this board without a question.
Brazil, feel free to post and re-post my DAF86 meme

[ElNono]

that vid you posted Nono has some nice plays, but what obnoxious editing!

1) dribbling past someone / drawing a foul is not equivalent to humiliation, the only humiliation there was Roberto Carlos tripping over himself, and maybe Sergio Ramos getting smoked only to sprint 30 meters back for a frustration foul (though that is more Ramos being pathetic than messi humiliating him)

2) more than half the players shown aren't great players

3) even the most ridiculous play cant be humiliating in a friendly or a practice, only real matches count

4) don't even get me started on the music

sorry, it just annoys me this mentality that getting juked is humiliating; its akin to the "posterized!!1!" stupidity. Its just part of the game, and if you haven't been juked, you either aren't defending or are playing vs kindergarteners.

falling on your ass by yourself (on defense, or offense like CR :lol), or being toyed with without getting hit are different stories. But toying with a defender is the mark of a stupid player, and I'm glad that messi doesnt do that (a la Neymar).

I agree, not my video, just something I found on the net. I do find it hilarious that half the players seem to be from RMAO :lol

[DAF86]

You (and millions and millions, still waiting for the link btw) consider he is one of the greatest player of all time and you (and millions and millions) are perfectly happy with his 2010 WC ? :lol

You are one of the biggest homer of this board without a question.

Dude, he played well in the WC. That's all I said. You can keep on going on whatever the fuck you're trying to say but it won't change that fact.

[Brazil]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Messi during this WC.

Before the WC by all the rankings, sport website, newspapers... Messi should have been the star of the WC.

Now, let's try to see how many players we can consider was better than him during the competition. No particular order.

- Forlan has been elected the best player of the competition (I think he was a bit overrated here but he has the trophy.
- Xavi (this one is a no brainer)
- Casillas (not fair to compare a midfield with a goal keeper but he had a great WC tbh)
- Iniesta
- Mueller (I'm a big fan of him and he was only 20 y/o younger than Messi)
- Sneijer (speaking of overachieving with an average overall squad)
- Ozil
- Villa
- Robben

Yeah I do guess he cracks the top 10 of the competition... not bad for one of the greatest player of all time .

[DAF86]

:lol I'm seriously having a hard time guessing the point you're trying to make

[Brazil]

Dude, he played well in the WC. That's all I said. You can keep on going on whatever the fuck you're trying to say but it won't change that fact.

All is a problem of expectations here... He played well below expectations.. In timvp grade he would have get what ? a C- ?

By his standard he had a poor WC. Once again in my mind at least you solidify / build your legacy as one of the greatest player of the world during a WC. He has not done that yet, he is not in the conversation. Not saying he won't, he is still young and has plenty of time to achieve that, next one is in two years.

[Brazil]

:lol I'm seriously having a hard time guessing the point you're trying to make


Once again in my mind at least you solidify / build your legacy as one of the greatest player of the world during a WC. He has not done that yet, he is not in the conversation. Not saying he won't, he is still young and has plenty of time to achieve that, next one is in two years.

here is my point

[DAF86]

I would love for Messi to win a WC playing crappy just to troll the fuck out of this retarded WC arguments. :lol

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao ganging up on DAF

[DAF86]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5183/daf1z.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2048/daf2q.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4283/daf3.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9759/daf4.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/578/1234931504682.jpg

Just for lefty to don't feel bad. :lol

[Brazil]

I would love for Messi to win a WC playing crappy just to troll the fuck out of this retarded WC arguments. :lol

I would love too tbh ! if France is out I'm rooting for Argentina, so I have no issue with that.

but there is no way Argentina won a WC with Messi playing crappy so we are safe.

now if Messi plays like GOD yeah Argentina has a chance to do it then I'll be the first to install Messi chair right next to the big boys.

[lefty]

Just for lefty to don't feel bad. :lol
Hey Resistanze LOLed

So it's not a total fail :D

[DAF86]

I laughed too, tbh.

[lefty]

I laughed too, tbh.
:toast

[ElNono]

lol lefty trying to talk shit before another Clasico


Did Messi just took another dump on RMAO?


http://files.sharenator.com/fuuuuu_The_Worlds_Hardest_Game_3-s343x268-95358-580.jpg