The difference is in coaching

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Forget Parker being out

Forget Bynum being out

Forget Duncan no-showing

This game, like so many other Spurs-Laker battles over the last 10 plus years was decided by the older guys wearing suits.

Phil lays into Kobe and Pop rests Manu in crunch time. In so many ways- the story of the game.

There is no bigger glaring discrepancy when analyzing Lakers vs. Spurs than Jackson/Popovich.

Need I remind you when Pop took out Bowen and Duncan during a critical stretch in game 1 of the WCF in 2008?

There is simply no comparison folks.

Jackson sees the game for the 48 minute battle it is. Love him or hate him- he is in a class by himself. He is like Keyser Soze- you never know he's there until you're in a close game and he totally outduels you and leaves you holding onto your cock, dumbfounded.

Ask Gregg Popovich- hell it's happened to him about 20 times in the last 10 years.

Popovich lives and dies with every play, never really knowing what comes next, just hoping for the best result, whereas Jackson feels what's coming next.

Watching Spurs-Lakers in crunch time is like having the advantage of seeing a train wreck minutes before it happens. Jackson is so much more in tune with the nuances of the game than Popovich it's scary. Phil is ordering dessert when Pop settles down for the appetizer.

This game crystallized the glaring advantage LA has over us and it's not in size, length,tattoos or celebrity appeal. Just coaching but boy it is glaring.

Man against boy.

You could give the Spurs Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Bill Russell and Phil would still beat Pop with Kobe and four pylons.

It's become so embarassing.

Great line from Catch Me If you Can;

Frank Abagnale Sr.: You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?
Frank Abagnale, Jr.: 'Cause they have Mickey Mantle?
Frank Abagnale Sr.: No, it's 'cause the other teams can't stop staring at those damn pinstripes.


Pop is too busy checking out Phil's pinstripes.

In any event, a frustrating loss but nonetheless interesting. Interesting because it's rare when coaching (and truly great coaching) becomes such an obvious advantage over an opponent. It's a lost art in today's game.

In the days of pomp and circumstance, street cred, JR Smith, Stephen Jackson and gunshots, it's almost refreshing to see a game won solely on how much better one older guy in a suit is at doing his job vs. his opponent.

I hate you Phil but damn you're good.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think the Lakers have gotten in the Spurs' heads over the years and the Spurs panic against them..so I agree that Jackson has that edge..coaching is extremely overrated when it comes to positive contributions though..

Jackson's teams were out in the 1st round when he didn't have a stacked team..he's a good coach, but he isn't winning shit without a stacked team..

I didn't notice anything special that Phil Jackson did tonight..

[Buddy Holly]

Forget Parker being out

Forget Bynum being out

Forget Duncan no-showing

This game, like so many other Spurs-Laker battles over the last 10 plus years was decided by the older guys wearing suits.

Phil lays into Kobe and Pop rests Manu in crunch time. In so many ways- the story of the game.

There is no bigger glaring discrepancy when analyzing Lakers vs. Spurs than Jackson/Popovich.

Need I remind you when Pop took out Bowen and Duncan during a critical stretch in game 1 of the WCF in 2008?

There is simply no comparison folks.

Jackson sees the game for the 48 minute battle it is. Love him or hate him- he is in a class by himself. He is like Keyser Soze- you never know he's there until you're in a close game and he totally outduels you and leaves you holding onto your cock, dumbfounded.

Ask Gregg Popovich- hell it's happened to him about 20 times in the last 10 years.

Popovich lives and dies with every play, never really knowing what comes next, just hoping for the best result, whereas Jackson feels what's coming next.

Watching Spurs-Lakers in crunch time is like having the advantage of seeing a train wreck minutes before it happens. Jackson is so much more in tune with the nuances of the game than Popovich it's scary. Phil is ordering dessert when Pop settles down for the appetizer.

This game crystallized the glaring advantage LA has over us and it's not in size, length,tattoos or celebrity appeal. Just coaching but boy it is glaring.

Man against boy.

You could give the Spurs Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Bill Russell and Phil would still beat Pop with Kobe and four pylons.

It's become so embarassing.

Great line from Catch Me If you Can;

Frank Abagnale Sr.: You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?
Frank Abagnale, Jr.: 'Cause they have Mickey Mantle?
Frank Abagnale Sr.: No, it's 'cause the other teams can't stop staring at those damn pinstripes.


Pop is too busy checking out Phil's pinstripes.

In any event, a frustrating loss but nonetheless interesting. Interesting because it's rare when coaching (and truly great coaching) becomes such an obvious advantage over an opponent. It's a lost art in today's game.

In the days of pomp and circumstance, street cred, JR Smith, Stephen Jackson and gunshots, it's almost refreshing to see a game won solely on how much better one older guy in a suit is at doing his job vs. his opponent.

I hate you Phil but damn you're good.

Good read.

[DesignatedT]

pop has been using the same rotation the past few games... manu went to the bench for like a minute to get some rest because he cant play the whole 2nd half. If we had a 20-10 duncan tonight we probably win this game...

[alchemist]

I agree with this, Pop will rest guys instead of putting the foot on neck of the opponent. I believe it was the 1st quarter when the Spurs were up by a few, Kobe goes out he takes Ginobili out and keeps Duncan in. Lakers close out the quarter on a run. I think by putting Ginobili back in they could've taken a commanding lead.

Then again the Spurs have blown 15+ point leads all season long.

[HarlemHeat37]

Those are Pop's flaws as a coach though, I don't think it has anything to do with being "outcoached"..

I think it shows that he fears the Lakers by instantly doubling Kobe out of fear that he's going to kill us, since he's done it so many times in the past..the Spurs often panic against the Lakers down the stretch too..I completely agree with the OP about that..

The rest of Pop's flaws are the same against any opponent though..he rests players too much, he doesn't trust young players at all, he doesn't pull players out when they're struggling..

[DesignatedT]

I agree with this, Pop will rest guys instead of putting the foot on neck of the opponent. I believe it was the 1st quarter when the Spurs were up by a few, Kobe goes out he takes Ginobili out and keeps Duncan in. Lakers close out the quarter on a run. I think by putting Ginobili back in they could've taken a commanding lead.

Then again the Spurs have blown 15+ point leads all season long.

no question about it, if the spurs overuse manu and duncan early in games they will have nothing left down the stretch....

these guys are older.... one of the primary reasons i was so happy to get RJ this offseason.... so he could sustain a lead while these guys were on the bench... but we all know how that has played out.

[ducks]

phil has flaws
sometimes he refuses to call a timeout and then the lead gets to big and they lose
also he never gets in kobe face

[Baseline]

Forget Parker being out

Forget Bynum being out

Forget Duncan no-showing

This game, like so many other Spurs-Laker battles over the last 10 plus years was decided by the older guys wearing suits.

Phil lays into Kobe and Pop rests Manu in crunch time. In so many ways- the story of the game.

There is no bigger glaring discrepancy when analyzing Lakers vs. Spurs than Jackson/Popovich.

Need I remind you when Pop took out Bowen and Duncan during a critical stretch in game 1 of the WCF in 2008?

There is simply no comparison folks.

Jackson sees the game for the 48 minute battle it is. Love him or hate him- he is in a class by himself. He is like Keyser Soze- you never know he's there until you're in a close game and he totally outduels you and leaves you holding onto your cock, dumbfounded.

Ask Gregg Popovich- hell it's happened to him about 20 times in the last 10 years.

Popovich lives and dies with every play, never really knowing what comes next, just hoping for the best result, whereas Jackson feels what's coming next.

Watching Spurs-Lakers in crunch time is like having the advantage of seeing a train wreck minutes before it happens. Jackson is so much more in tune with the nuances of the game than Popovich it's scary. Phil is ordering dessert when Pop settles down for the appetizer.

This game crystallized the glaring advantage LA has over us and it's not in size, length,tattoos or celebrity appeal. Just coaching but boy it is glaring.

Man against boy.

You could give the Spurs Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Bill Russell and Phil would still beat Pop with Kobe and four pylons.

It's become so embarassing.

Great line from Catch Me If you Can;

Frank Abagnale Sr.: You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?
Frank Abagnale, Jr.: 'Cause they have Mickey Mantle?
Frank Abagnale Sr.: No, it's 'cause the other teams can't stop staring at those damn pinstripes.


Pop is too busy checking out Phil's pinstripes.

In any event, a frustrating loss but nonetheless interesting. Interesting because it's rare when coaching (and truly great coaching) becomes such an obvious advantage over an opponent. It's a lost art in today's game.

In the days of pomp and circumstance, street cred, JR Smith, Stephen Jackson and gunshots, it's almost refreshing to see a game won solely on how much better one older guy in a suit is at doing his job vs. his opponent.

I hate you Phil but damn you're good.

Good read and well stated, but I really think what games like this - and certainly seasons like this - indicate is that Popovich is just extremely overrated.

I'm not saying that Phil isn't a good coach, because he is, but Popovich is just god-awful.

The guy has four rings because of Tim Duncan. The world is finally seeing how good Tim Duncan really is/was.

Popovich is a disciplinarian, not a coach.

Anyway, good read, WBOM. Excellent points.

[santymrc]

Good read and well stated, but I really think what games like this - and certainly seasons like this - indicate is that Popovich is just extremely overrated.

I'm not saying that Phil isn't a good coach, because he is, but Popovich is just god-awful.

The guy has four rings because of Tim Duncan. The world is finally seeing how good Tim Duncan really is/was.

Popovich is a disciplinarian, not a coach.

Anyway, good read, WBOM. Excellent points.

Feel free to add Manu and Tony in your mix of "becouse of".

[jjktkk]

I disagree. The Lakers are just a bad matchup for this current group of Spurs. If Duncan is off his game, the Spurs will get abused by the Lakers front line. Besides Gasol, Lamar Odom is a nightmare matchup for the Spurs. You can say Jackson outcoaches Pop, but let me ask you this. Put Jackson in as the Spurs coach tonight and explain to me how could he have beaten the Lakers tonight, with Duncan's subpar game? Great players make great coaches and great players step up and take over a game like Kobe did tonight.

[alchemist]

Good read and well stated, but I really think what games like this - and certainly seasons like this - indicate is that Popovich is just extremely overrated.

I'm not saying that Phil isn't a good coach, because he is, but Popovich is just god-awful.

The guy has four rings because of Tim Duncan. The world is finally seeing how good Tim Duncan really is/was.

Popovich is a disciplinarian, not a coach.

Anyway, good read, WBOM. Excellent points.
:lmao wow!

[Kamala]

The Lakers have more "trust" than just about any team right now. They know where to be on offense and defense and when to defer to Kobe when they need him to take over. Those guys buy into their system and are relatively healthy.

No other team for the last few years has trusted in each other more than the Spurs. For the most part you knew the defense would be turned up late in games and the big 3 would do their thing and Horry, Barry, and even Finley would hit daggers. The new guys need more time, unfortunately Timmy, Manu, and TP have to actually be on the court a whole season for the unit to get it together.

[Obstructed_View]

Counterpunchers are valuable until they start planning on ways to get hit so they can retailate. Sticking with the boxing metaphor, you don't win if you don't establish yourself and dictate to your opponent.

At some point, your strategy needs to be as much about what you do as what your opponent does.

[Man In Black]

In this game, for the 2nd half, the Spurs only played with 1 bullet in the chamber. Tim had the toughest cover and they neutralized each other for the most part, and Manu matched Kobe, again for the most part. When Hill was making his run in the 1st half, he was outscoring the LAL all by himself with Odom being the only effective player keeping it close. Once 3 against 3 became 1 against 5, the game was out of reach. I can't blame Pop pulling Manu because the last shot Manu took before that rest was a terrible shot that indicated, he needed a rest. Pop didn't do it due to bad coaching, he did it because his guy was gassed and having him out there on the court wasn't going to get him any rest.

[santymrc]

In this game, for the 2nd half, the Spurs only played with 1 bullet in the chamber. Tim had the toughest cover and they neutralized each other for the most part, and Manu matched Kobe, again for the most part. When Hill was making his run in the 1st half, he was outscoring the LAL all by himself with Odom being the only effective player keeping it close. Once 3 against 3 became 1 against 5, the game was out of reach. I can't blame Pop pulling Manu because the last shot Manu took before that rest was a terrible shot that indicated, he needed a rest. Pop didn't do it due to bad coaching, he did it because his guy was gassed and having him out there on the court wasn't going to get him any rest.

We were 2 points down then. We will never be sure what could have happened if Manu wasn't pulled out by Pop. But I can tell you one thing, we were 12 points behind just 1.50 Mins after that. He came back then... is that time enough to rest and be fresh??????????????? Was it worth it? I'd rather call a timeout to give him a rest than do that. It was dumb as hell.

[murpjf88]

Good read and well stated, but I really think what games like this - and certainly seasons like this - indicate is that Popovich is just extremely overrated.

I'm not saying that Phil isn't a good coach, because he is, but Popovich is just god-awful.

The guy has four rings because of Tim Duncan. The world is finally seeing how good Tim Duncan really is/was.

Popovich is a disciplinarian, not a coach.

Anyway, good read, WBOM. Excellent points.

What has Phil Jackson won without Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan.

-Jack shit.

[kaji157]

I get the point but the Lakers went on a 10 2 run on 3 minutes Manu rested. If the rest of the team can't hold on for 3 minutes we are scrwed one way or another. Tho, i agree this was a game where i would have played manu at least 36 minutes and 40 if neccesary, but he has been carrying this team for the past 2 months, you have to give the guy rest at some point.

[namlook]

phil has flaws
sometimes he refuses to call a timeout and then the lead gets to big and they lose
also he never gets in kobe face

Not true. ESPN caught Phil in Kobe's face tonight criticizing his play. He told him he's not activating the ball, he's looking to pass too much and he told him to shoot more in one of the huddles.

[santymrc]

I get the point but the Lakers went on a 10 2 run on 3 minutes Manu rested. If the rest of the team can't hold on for 3 minutes we are scrwed one way or another. Tho, i agree this was a game where i would have played manu at least 36 minutes and 40 if neccesary, but he has been carrying this team for the past 2 months, you have to give the guy rest at some point.

In a close game, you get plenty of rest after the buzzer.
Pop did the wrong move right there.

[Man In Black]

We were 2 points down then. We will never be sure what could have happened if Manu wasn't pulled out by Pop. But I can tell you one thing, we were 12 points behind just 1.50 Mins after that. He came back then... is that time enough to rest and be fresh??????????????? Was it worth it? I'd rather call a timeout to give him a rest than do that. It was dumb as hell.
See, that's the difference here. Some of you peeps, think well, Manu can't sit. He's completely gassed but he can't sit.
At the 7:11 mark, he gets a clean screen and airballs a wide-open 3. at the 6:53 it's a TV timeout. Then the clock begins, Manu comes back at the 3:29 mark.

You say in that time, he can't get a rest? but add a TV timeout in there and Manu is actually sitting for 8 minutes of real time. I triple-checked my DVR, so yeah, he got a good rest. But see, in my opinion from a coaching standpoint, you can't just tell the team that you suck without Manu. You have to continue the mantra of sharing the ball, help each other on defense and try to get the best shot possible. See, the problem here wasn't coaching, the problem was that those other guys didn't have faith in their abilities and at the same time, placed the Lakers abilities on a higher pedestal. In short, they stopped competing once Manu went to the bench gassed.

Here's a list of plays after the airballed 3 that Manu took and then he went out and then up to his return:

07:11 Ginobili 3pt Shot: Missed (this is the 1 off a nice screen that gave him a wide-open shot that he airballed. No legs here.)

Odom Rebound (Off:2 Def:9) 07:09
Odom Jump Shot: Missed 07:01
06:59 Duncan Rebound (Off:2 Def:7)
06:53 Team Timeout : Regular
Brown Substitution replaced by Artest 06:53
06:53 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Jefferson
06:53 Bonner Substitution replaced by McDyess
06:44 Jefferson Jump Shot: Missed
Gasol Rebound (Off:3 Def:7) 06:42
Odom 3pt Shot: Missed 06:18
06:16 Jefferson Rebound (Off:1 Def:4)
06:05 Duncan Jump Shot: Missed Block: Gasol (2 BLK)
Gasol Rebound (Off:3 Def:8) 06:03
Bryant 3pt Shot: Made (19 PTS) Assist: Artest (3 AST) 05:41
[LAL 80-74]
05:25 McDyess Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Artest (3 ST)
Artest Layup Shot: Made (15 PTS) 05:21
[LAL 82-74]
05:02
[SAS 76-82] Mason Jump Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Duncan (5 AST)
Gasol Turnaround Bank Hook Shot: Made (10 PTS) 04:43
[LAL 84-76]
04:28 Hill Turnover : Bad Pass (2 TO) Steal:Gasol (1 ST)
Odom Layup Shot: Missed Block: Duncan (3 BLK) 04:13
04:11 Jefferson Rebound (Off:1 Def:5)
04:04 Duncan Turnover : Poss Lost Ball Turnover (3 TO) Steal:Artest (4 ST)
Bryant 3pt Shot: Made (22 PTS) Assist: Gasol (2 AST) 03:29
[LAL 87-76]
03:29 Team Timeout : Short
03:29 Jefferson Substitution replaced by Ginobili
This game is about Stops and Scores.
On all the bolded text, those are Laker Stops. How is that all to be blamed on Pop, other than his best player wasn't out there because he needed rest, so blame Pop because the rest of the players stopped competing? So who needs to look in the mirror? Pop, or every other player not named Ginobili?

[whottt]

I am amazed so many people thought we were going to beat the Lakers tonght.

[rascal]

The difference is the lakers are the better team.

[Trimble87]

The difference is the lakers are the better team.

+1.

The Lakers are just the best team in the NBA, and we are clearly on the decline.

They're the champs and we're barely contenders.

[taps]

I think the Lakers have gotten in the Spurs' heads over the years and the Spurs panic against them..

In the middle of the '08 WCF Pop called Kobe "the best basketball player on the planet." Maybe he thought he'd play worse if he was overconfident?

Also see last year's comments about not looking kobe in the eye after he had the good game against Houston when Artest called him out. To me your comments about panic ring true, but Pop has been setting the tone since the Gasol deal.


I didn't notice anything special that Phil Jackson did tonight..

It seems like all Phil Jackson has to do against the spurs is wait for Pop to unravel his own lead by sticking with Roger Bogner for the entire 2nd half.

When it's 2 on 5 the gameplan is simple


you can't just tell the team that you suck without Manu.

That's exactly what Pop told the team and the entire nation last season

[Obstructed_View]

You're an idiot, Walton. Don't you know Pop's not going to give everything away when there's a potential playoff matchup looming? Shock the world, that's the mission of CIA.

[Russ]

Coaching ability comes and goes for some reason.

At times Pop has been a better coach than Phil ('03, '05-'07). Phil was a better coach before then and after.

[Cane]

The problem is Duncan going for 2-11 for the game and the entire Spurs team sucking ass in the second half.

[santymrc]

See, that's the difference here. Some of you peeps, think well, Manu can't sit. He's completely gassed but he can't sit.
At the 7:11 mark, he gets a clean screen and airballs a wide-open 3. at the 6:53 it's a TV timeout. Then the clock begins, Manu comes back at the 3:29 mark.

You say in that time, he can't get a rest? but add a TV timeout in there and Manu is actually sitting for 8 minutes of real time. I triple-checked my DVR, so yeah, he got a good rest. But see, in my opinion from a coaching standpoint, you can't just tell the team that you suck without Manu. You have to continue the mantra of sharing the ball, help each other on defense and try to get the best shot possible. See, the problem here wasn't coaching, the problem was that those other guys didn't have faith in their abilities and at the same time, placed the Lakers abilities on a higher pedestal. In short, they stopped competing once Manu went to the bench gassed.

Here's a list of plays after the airballed 3 that Manu took and then he went out and then up to his return:

07:11 Ginobili 3pt Shot: Missed (this is the 1 off a nice screen that gave him a wide-open shot that he airballed. No legs here.)

Odom Rebound (Off:2 Def:9) 07:09
Odom Jump Shot: Missed 07:01
06:59 Duncan Rebound (Off:2 Def:7)
06:53 Team Timeout : Regular
Brown Substitution replaced by Artest 06:53
06:53 Ginobili Substitution replaced by Jefferson
06:53 Bonner Substitution replaced by McDyess
06:44 Jefferson Jump Shot: Missed
Gasol Rebound (Off:3 Def:7) 06:42
Odom 3pt Shot: Missed 06:18
06:16 Jefferson Rebound (Off:1 Def:4)
06:05 Duncan Jump Shot: Missed Block: Gasol (2 BLK)
Gasol Rebound (Off:3 Def:8) 06:03
Bryant 3pt Shot: Made (19 PTS) Assist: Artest (3 AST) 05:41
[LAL 80-74]
05:25 McDyess Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Artest (3 ST)
Artest Layup Shot: Made (15 PTS) 05:21
[LAL 82-74]
05:02
[SAS 76-82] Mason Jump Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Duncan (5 AST)
Gasol Turnaround Bank Hook Shot: Made (10 PTS) 04:43
[LAL 84-76]
04:28 Hill Turnover : Bad Pass (2 TO) Steal:Gasol (1 ST)
Odom Layup Shot: Missed Block: Duncan (3 BLK) 04:13
04:11 Jefferson Rebound (Off:1 Def:5)
04:04 Duncan Turnover : Poss Lost Ball Turnover (3 TO) Steal:Artest (4 ST)
Bryant 3pt Shot: Made (22 PTS) Assist: Gasol (2 AST) 03:29
[LAL 87-76]
03:29 Team Timeout : Short
03:29 Jefferson Substitution replaced by Ginobili
This game is about Stops and Scores.
On all the bolded text, those are Laker Stops. How is that all to be blamed on Pop, other than his best player wasn't out there because he needed rest, so blame Pop because the rest of the players stopped competing? So who needs to look in the mirror? Pop, or every other player not named Ginobili?

Ok, you and your DVR are right :)
Still, your DVR didn't put Mason in there. I still blame Pop. LA might be better than us, but we gave us a chance to win, just to blow it in 3 mins.

[picc84]

Artest and Kobe killed the Spurs last night, not Phil. Who wins this game if Manu and Kobe switch places in the 4th quarter?

PJ will tell Kobe whats what though. One of the few things I like about him.

[mytespurs]

The difference is the lakers are the better team.

And that's it-in a nutshell.

Pop could've done his best coaching job tonight but if he doesn't have the talent to compete, then the results would've been the same regardless.

[mytespurs]

I've noticed that the Spurs seems to start strong and fade in the second half of games. Sometimes they're good enough to pull it out, other times they lose.
Perhaps its age, injuries, lack of talent in key positions, lack of a strong bench........

[Russ]

I've noticed that the Spurs seems to start strong and fade in the second half of games.


(1) Three games in four nights against (2) three elite (15 games over 500) teams + (3) no TP = 2d half fades.

But it's not a permanent situation due to the lack of 2 of the above 3 factors in the playoffs.

[jjktkk]

Coaching ability comes and goes for some reason.

At times Pop has been a better coach than Phil ('03, '05-'07). Phil was a better coach before then and after.

Exactly, which Walton Buy Me Off, for some reason, forgot to mention in his thread, which is the reason I disagree with his thread.

[Man In Black]

Ok, you and your DVR are right :)
Still, your DVR didn't put Mason in there. I still blame Pop. LA might be better than us, but we gave us a chance to win, just to blow it in 3 mins.
I agree Mason didn't play well, I did say he missed the shot coming out of the timeout when Manu came back. But in that play-by-play I listed, who is the only 1 that scored for the Spurs in that time period?


[SAS 76-82] Mason Jump Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Duncan (5 AST)
4 Turnovers plus Laker made baskets off those turnovers was the difference late. Maybe if Tim isn't playing his 6th game in 9 nights, he gets the team his usual 18 & 10 performance and we're talking about a different result.
Those turnovers were all over the place.

Tim Blocked-Led to a Kobe 3
McDyess Bad Pass-Led to an Artest layup
Tim lost ball-Led to a Kobe 3.

That's 8 points right there.