PDA

View Full Version : Peeling the Onion the MSM refuses to touch.



Yonivore
03-25-2010, 12:19 AM
All of this is stolen...

Here’s a picture of Barack Obama in Chicago teaching the principles of Saul Alinsky. Notice the flow chart indicating the flow of money and power out of productive businesses (“CORP”) and into the political class (“MAYOR”):

http://obama.3cdn.net/e619093b4144ddc74e_fum6bhivu.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn282/greybeard411/obamaprof1.jpg (http://obama.3cdn.net/e619093b4144ddc74e_fum6bhivu.jpg)

The heading at the top reads “POWER ANALYSIS”. The sub-heading
reads “RELATIONSHIPS BUILD ON SELF INTEREST”. The symbol on the arrow
between “CORP” and “MAYOR” is the “$” sign.

Of course, the mainstream media was too tied up in Wasilla to worry itself over the socialist influences of a presidential candidate but, the bloggers in pajamas have (and will remain) on the job so that, if nothing else, when the Left acts surprised -- as they feigned when it was discovered John Edwards was a cretin -- there will be volumes of evidence, remaining on these interweb tubicles that they were told this man is a socialist.

After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois (http://web.archive.org/web/20041206143359/http://civic.uis.edu/Alinsky/AlinskyObamaChapter1990.htm)


After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois
(c) 1990 Illinois Issues, University of Illinois at Springfield
ISBN: 0-9620873-3-5

Chapter 4 (pp. 35-40) of After Alinsky
Illinois Issues

Center for State Policy and Leadership

University of Illinois at Springfield

The complete book After Alinsky home page (http://web.archive.org/web/20041206143359/http://civic.uis.edu/Alinsky/AlinskyHomePage.htm)

Why Organize? Problems and Promise in the Inner City

For three years Barack Obama was the director of Developing Communities Project, an institutionally based community organization on Chicago's far south side. He has also been a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, an organizing institute working throughout the Midwest. Currently he is studying law at Harvard University. "Why Organize? Problems and Promise in the Inner City" was first published in the August/ September 1988 Illinois Issues [published by then-Sangamon State University, which is now the University of Illinois at Springfield].


By Barack Obama
(c) 1990 Illinois Issues, Springfield, Illinois

Over the past five years, I've often had a difficult time explaining my profession to folks. Typical is a remark a public school administrative aide made to me one bleak January morning, while I waited to deliver some flyers to a group of confused and angry parents who had discovered the presence of asbestos in their school.

"Listen, Obama," she began. "You're a bright young man, Obama. You went to college, didn't you?"

I nodded.

"I just cannot understand why a bright young man like you would go to college, get that degree and become a community organizer."

"Why's that?"

" 'Cause the pay is low, the hours is long, and don't nobody appreciate you." She shook her head in puzzlement as she wandered back to attend to her duties.

I've thought back on that conversation more than once during the time I've organized with the Developing Communities Project, based in Chicago's far south side. Unfortunately, the answers that come to mind haven't been as simple as her question. Probably the shortest one is this: It needs to be done, and not enough folks are doing it.

The debate as to how black and other dispossessed people can forward their lot in America is not new. From W.E.B. DuBois to Booker T. Washington to Marcus Garvey to Malcolm X to Martin Luther King, this internal debate has raged between integration and nationalism, between accommodation and militancy, between sit-down strikes and boardroom negotiations. The lines between these strategies have never been simply drawn, and the most successful black leadership has recognized the need to bridge these seemingly divergent approaches. During the early years of the Civil Rights movement, many of these issues became submerged in the face of the clear oppression of segregation. The debate was no longer whether to protest, but how militant must that protest be to win full citizenship for blacks.

Twenty years later, the tensions between strategies have reemerged, in part due to the recognition that for all the accomplishments of the 1960s, the majority of blacks continue to suffer from second-class citizenship. Related to this are the failures — real, perceived and fabricated — of the Great Society programs initiated by Lyndon Johnson. Facing these realities, at least three major strands of earlier movements are apparent.

First, and most publicized, has been the surge of political empowerment around the country. Harold Washington and Jesse Jackson are but two striking examples of how the energy and passion of the Civil Rights movement have been channeled into bids for more traditional political power. Second, there has been a resurgence in attempts to foster economic development in the black community, whether through local entrepreLuck_The_Fakers_neurial efforts, increased hiring of black contractors and corporate managers, or Buy Black campaigns. Third, and perhaps least publicized, has been grass-roots community organizing, which builds on indigenous leadership and direct action.

Proponents of electoral politics and economic development strategies can point to substantial accomplishments in the past 10 years. An increase in the number of black public officials offers at least the hope that government will be more responsive to inner-city constituents. Economic development programs can provide structural improvements and jobs to blighted communities.

In my view, however, neither approach offers lasting hope of real change for the inner city unless undergirded by a systematic approach to community organization. This is because the issues of the inner city are more complex and deeply rooted than ever before. Blatant discrimination has been replaced by institutional racism; problems like teen pregnancy, gang involvement and drug abuse cannot be solved by money alone. At the same time, as Professor William Julius Wilson of the University of Chicago has pointed out, the inner city's economy and its government support have declined, and middle-class blacks are leaving the neighborLuck_The_Fakers_hoods they once helped to sustain.

Neither electoral politics nor a strategy of economic self-help and internal development can by themselves respond to these new challenges. The election of Harold Washington in Chicago or of Richard Hatcher in Gary were not enough to bring jobs to inner-city neighborhoods or cut a 50 percent drop-out rate in the schools, although they did achieve an important symbolic effect. In fact, much-needed black achievement in prominent city positions has put us in the awkward position of administerLuck_The_Fakers_ing underfunded systems neither equipped nor eager to address the needs of the urban poor and being forced to compromise their interests to more powerful demands from other sectors.

Self-help strategies show similar limitations. Although both laudable and necessary, they too often ignore the fact that without a stable community, a well-educated population, an adequate infrastructure and an informed and employed market, neither new nor well-established compaLuck_The_Fakers_nies will be willing to base themselves in the inner city and still compete in the international marketplace. Moreover, such approaches can and have become thinly veiled excuses for cutting back on social programs, which are anathema to a conservative agenda.

In theory, community organizing provides a way to merge various strategies for neighborhood empowerment. Organizing begins with the premise that (1) the problems facing inner-city communities do not result from a lack of effective solutions, but from a lack of power to implement these solutions; (2) that the only way for communities to build long-term power is by organizing people and money around a common vision; and (3) that a viable organization can only be achieved if a broadly based indigenous leadership — and not one or two charismatic leaders — can knit together the diverse interests of their local institutions.

This means bringing together churches, block clubs, parent groups and any other institutions in a given community to pay dues, hire organizers, conduct research, develop leadership, hold rallies and education camLuck_The_Fakers_paigns, and begin drawing up plans on a whole range of issues — jobs, education, crime, etc. Once such a vehicle is formed, it holds the power to make politicians, agencies and corporations more responsive to commuLuck_The_Fakers_nity needs. Equally important, it enables people to break their crippling isolation from each other, to reshape their mutual values and expectations and rediscover the possibilities of acting collaboratively — the prerequiLuck_The_Fakers_sites of any successful self-help initiative.

By using this approach, the Developing Communities Project and other organizations in Chicago's inner city have achieved some impressive results. Schools have been made more accountable-Job training programs have been established; housing has been renovated and built; city services have been provided; parks have been refurbished; and crime and drug problems have been curtailed. Additionally, plain folk have been able to access the levers of power, and a sophisticated pool of local civic leadership has been developed.

But organizing the black community faces enormous problems as well. One problem is the not entirely undeserved skepticism organizers face in many communities. To a large degree, Chicago was the birthplace of community organizing, and the urban landscape is littered with the skeletons of previous efforts. Many of the best-intentioned members of the community have bitter memories of such failures and are reluctant to muster up renewed faith in the process.

A related problem involves the aforementioned exodus from the inner city of financial resources, institutions, role models and jobs. Even in areas that have not been completely devastated, most households now stay afloat with two incomes. Traditionally, community organizing has drawn support from women, who due to tradition and social discrimination had the time and the inclination to participate in what remains an essentially voluntary activity. Today the majority of women in the black community work full time, many are the sole parent, and all have to split themselves between work, raising children, running a household and maintaining some semblance of a personal life — all of which makes voluntary activities lower on the priority list. Additionally, the slow exodus of the black middle class into the suburbs means that people shop in one neighborhood, work in another, send their child to a school across town and go to church someplace other than the place where they live. Such geographical dispersion creates real problems in building a sense of investment and common purpose in any particular neighborhood.

Finally community organizations and organizers are hampered by their own dogmas about the style and substance of organizing. Most still practice what Professor John McKnight of Northwestern University calls a "consumer advocacy" approach, with a focus on wrestling services and resources from the ouside powers that be. Few are thinking of harnessing the internal productive capacities, both in terms of money and people, that already exist in communities.

Our thinking about media and public relations is equally stunted when compared to the high-powered direct mail and video approaches successLuck_The_Fakers_fully used by conservative organizations like the Moral Majority. Most importantly, low salaries, the lack of quality training and ill-defined possibilities for advancement discourage the most talented young blacks from viewing organizing as a legitimate career option. As long as our best and brightest youth see more opportunity in climbing the corporate ladder-than in building the communities from which they came, organizing will remain decidedly handicapped.

None of these problems is insurmountable. In Chicago, the Developing Communities Project and other community organizations have pooled resources to form cooperative think tanks like the Gamaliel Foundation. These provide both a formal setting where experienced organizers can rework old models to fit new realities and a healthy environment for the recruitment and training of new organizers. At the same time the leadership vacuum and disillusionment following the death of Harold Washington have made both the media and people in the neighborhoods more responsive to the new approaches community organizing can provide.

Nowhere is the promise of organizing more apparent than in the traditional black churches. Possessing tremendous financial resources, membership and — most importantly — values and biblical traditions that call for empowerment and liberation, the black church is clearly a slumbering giant in the political and economic landscape of cities like Chicago. A fierce independence among black pastors and a preference for more traditional approaches to social involvement (supporting candidates for office, providing shelters for the homeless) have prevented the black church from bringing its full weight to bear on the political, social and economic arenas of the city.

Over the past few years, however, more and more young and forward-thinking pastors have begun to look at community organizations such as the Developing Communities Project in the far south side and GREAT in the Grand Boulevard area as a powerful tool for living the social gospel, one which can educate and empower entire congregations and not just serve as a platform for a few prophetic leaders. Should a mere 50 prominent black churches, out of the thousands that exist in cities like Chicago, decide to collaborate with a trained organizing staff, enormous positive changes could be wrought in the education, housing, employment and spirit of inner-city black communities, changes that would send powerful ripples throughout the city.

In the meantime, organizers will continue to build on local successes, learn from their numerous failures and recruit and train their small but growing core of leadership — mothers on welfare, postal workers, CTA drivers and school teachers, all of whom have a vision and memories of what communities can be. In fact, the answer to the original question — why organize? — resides in these people. In helping a group of housewives sit across the negotiating table with the mayor of America's third largest city and hold their own, or a retired steelworker stand before a TV camera and give voice to the dreams he has for his grandchild's future, one discovers the most significant and satisfying contribution organizing can make.

In return, organizing teaches as nothing else does the beauty and strength of everyday people. Through the songs of the church and the talk on the stoops, through the hundreds of individual stories of coming up from the South and finding any job that would pay, of raising families on threadbare budgets, of losing some children to drugs and watching others earn degrees and land jobs their parents could never aspire to — it is through these stories and songs of dashed hopes and powers of endurance, of ugliness and strife, subtlety and laughter, that organizers can shape a sense of community not only for others, but for themselves.

- END - Chapter 4 -

For three years Barack Obama was the director of Developing Communities Project, an institutionally based community organization on Chicago's far south side. He has also been a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, an organizing institute working throughout the Midwest.

"Why Organize? Problems and Promise in the Inner City" was first published in the August/ September 1988 Illinois Issues [published by then-Sangamon State University, which is now the University of Illinois at Springfield].

Obama states in his Book "Dreams from my Father:" "Change won't come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots. That's what I'll do. I'll organize black folks. At the grass roots. For change."

At the heart of the Alinsky method is the concept of "agitation"--making someone angry enough about the rotten state of his life that he agrees to take action to change it; or, as Alinsky himself described the job, to "rub raw the sores of discontent."

It's not surprising that Obama made his "bitter" comment in San Francisco . He just forgot to embitter Pennsylvanians first by pinpointing the "Correct" source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 02:04 AM
(hits the snooze bar)

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 02:04 AM
Tea party guys emulate Alinsky too. So what?

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 02:06 AM
SnC has been the major promoter of the ideas of Saul Alinsky in these pages in the last year or so, but this contribution, rich as it is in details and specifics, puts you right up there with him among his very biggest boosters on SpursTalk.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 02:09 AM
All of this is stolen...The warning was gratuitous. You included links. :tu

ChumpDumper
03-25-2010, 03:59 AM
At the heart of the Alinsky method is the concept of "agitation"--making someone angry enough about the rotten state of his life that he agrees to take action to change it; or, as Alinsky himself described the job, to "rub raw the sores of discontent."Sounds like pretty much any politician.

Why does this matter?

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 07:01 AM
WH has no problem with Obama regurgitating Alinsky. The real problem is when a professor wears a cross.
WH: Is Obama teaching Alinsky's tactics?

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 07:04 AM
SnC has been the major promoter of the ideas of Saul Alinsky in these pages in the last year or so, but this contribution, rich as it is in details and specifics, puts you right up there with him among his very biggest boosters on SpursTalk.

promoter? First I only copy and paste, and now I "promote".

ChumpDumper
03-25-2010, 01:57 PM
Sounds like pretty much any politician.

Why does this matter?

RandomGuy
03-25-2010, 02:07 PM
First, and most publicized, has been the surge of political empowerment around the country. Harold Washington and Jesse Jackson are but two striking examples of how the energy and passion of the Civil Rights movement have been channeled into bids for more traditional political power. Second, there has been a resurgence in attempts to foster economic development in the black community, whether through local entrepreLuck_The_Fakers_neurial efforts, increased hiring of black contractors and corporate managers, or Buy Black campaigns. Third, and perhaps least publicized, has been grass-roots community organizing, which builds on indigenous leadership and direct action.

Proponents of electoral politics and economic development strategies can point to substantial accomplishments in the past 10 years. An increase in the number of black public officials offers at least the hope that government will be more responsive to inner-city constituents. Economic development programs can provide structural improvements and jobs to blighted communities.

In my view, however, neither approach offers lasting hope of real change for the inner city unless undergirded by a systematic approach to community organization. This is because the issues of the inner city are more complex and deeply rooted than ever before. Blatant discrimination has been replaced by institutional racism; problems like teen pregnancy, gang involvement and drug abuse cannot be solved by money alone. At the same time, as Professor William Julius Wilson of the University of Chicago has pointed out, the inner city's economy and its government support have declined, and middle-class blacks are leaving the neighborLuck_The_Fakers_hoods they once helped to sustain.

Neither electoral politics nor a strategy of economic self-help and internal development can by themselves respond to these new challenges. The election of Harold Washington in Chicago or of Richard Hatcher in Gary were not enough to bring jobs to inner-city neighborhoods or cut a 50 percent drop-out rate in the schools, although they did achieve an important symbolic effect. In fact, much-needed black achievement in prominent city positions has put us in the awkward position of administerLuck_The_Fakers_ing underfunded systems neither equipped nor eager to address the needs of the urban poor and being forced to compromise their interests to more powerful demands from other sectors.

Self-help strategies show similar limitations. Although both laudable and necessary, they too often ignore the fact that without a stable community, a well-educated population, an adequate infrastructure and an informed and employed market, neither new nor well-established compaLuck_The_Fakers_nies will be willing to base themselves in the inner city and still compete in the international marketplace. Moreover, such approaches can and have become thinly veiled excuses for cutting back on social programs, which are anathema to a conservative agenda.

In theory, community organizing provides a way to merge various strategies for neighborhood empowerment. Organizing begins with the premise that (1) the problems facing inner-city communities do not result from a lack of effective solutions, but from a lack of power to implement these solutions; (2) that the only way for communities to build long-term power is by organizing people and money around a common vision; and (3) that a viable organization can only be achieved if a broadly based indigenous leadership — and not one or two charismatic leaders — can knit together the diverse interests of their local institutions.

This means bringing together churches, block clubs, parent groups and any other institutions in a given community to pay dues, hire organizers, conduct research, develop leadership, hold rallies and education camLuck_The_Fakers_paigns, and begin drawing up plans on a whole range of issues — jobs, education, crime, etc. Once such a vehicle is formed, it holds the power to make politicians, agencies and corporations more responsive to commuLuck_The_Fakers_nity needs. Equally important, it enables people to break their crippling isolation from each other, to reshape their mutual values and expectations and rediscover the possibilities of acting collaboratively — the prerequiLuck_The_Fakers_sites of any successful self-help initiative.



:rollin

Ok, I thought that was at least a bit funny. I stopped at that point.

RandomGuy
03-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Nowhere is the promise of organizing more apparent than in the traditional black churches. Possessing tremendous financial resources, membership and — most importantly — values and biblical traditions


What a commie...

Thank you for posting this.

I now see the light. Based on this, one can only conclude he is a socialist out to destroy America.

How could I have been so blind? :dramaquee

RandomGuy
03-25-2010, 02:13 PM
All of this is stolen...

Here’s a picture of Barack Obama in Chicago teaching the principles of Saul Alinsky. Notice the flow chart indicating the flow of money and power out of productive businesses (“CORP”) and into the political class (“MAYOR”):

http://obama.3cdn.net/e619093b4144ddc74e_fum6bhivu.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn282/greybeard411/obamaprof1.jpg (http://obama.3cdn.net/e619093b4144ddc74e_fum6bhivu.jpg)

The heading at the top reads “POWER ANALYSIS”. The sub-heading
reads “RELATIONSHIPS BUILD ON SELF INTEREST”. The symbol on the arrow
between “CORP” and “MAYOR” is the “$” sign.

I also fail to see why I should be concerned by this.

It seems to be an analysis of relationships.

Are you trying to say he was wrong in deducing what appears to be that private interests give money to political campaigns?

Yonivore
03-25-2010, 03:04 PM
I also fail to see why I should be concerned by this.

It seems to be an analysis of relationships.

Are you trying to say he was wrong in deducing what appears to be that private interests give money to political campaigns?
I think the author's inference is the chalkboard is direct evidence he was teaching "Power Analysis," a Saul Alinsky concept taken directly from his book, "Rules for Radicals."

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:10 PM
WH has no problem with Obama regurgitating Alinsky. No, I don't.


WH: Is Obama teaching Alinsky's tactics?I don't care if he did. Why do you?

Yonivore
03-25-2010, 03:12 PM
No, I don't.

I don't care if he did. Why do you?
Apparently because we have a problem with Alinksy's ideology and you don't.

Obviously, we disagree on whether Alinsky's principles are acceptable curriculum material.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Apparently because we have a problem with Alinksy's ideology and you don't. I have a problem with Knut Hamsun's ideology, but that doesn't mean his books are "unacceptable curriculum material."

At the college level, profs pick the reading list, good bad or indifferent. Big boys and girls can deal with it. Sounds like you can't.

Yonivore
03-25-2010, 03:26 PM
I have a problem with Celine's ideology too, but that doesn't mean his books are "unacceptable curriculum material."

At the college level, profs pick the reading list, good bad or indifferent. Big boys and girls can deal with it. Sounds like you can't.
Not my point.

Since it's already been established he has a relationship with Alinsky and there is strong evidence one of his "biographies" was ghost-written by Alinsky.

The point is, I don't think he's presenting the material as being a bad ideology. I think he's probably advocating the "Power Analysis" principle. I don't have a problem with my child being exposed to the "good, bad, or indifferent," as you put it but, I want to make sure they're all properly identified, as such, by the instructor.

If that is the case, would you be okay with it?

If not, we're back to disagreeing on ideology which is no big surprise...is it.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:27 PM
Why don't you go ahead and tell us what's wrong with Obama including Alinsky in his lectures, since you skipped that part, Yoni. SnC, feel free to chime in.

George Gervin's Afro
03-25-2010, 03:27 PM
Apparently because we have a problem with Alinksy's ideology and you don't.

Obviously, we disagree on whether Alinsky's principles are acceptable curriculum material.

I always thought conservatives were not easily duped.. I guess I was wrong

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:28 PM
We're not talking about children, Yoni. We're talking about college students here.

Yonivore
03-25-2010, 03:30 PM
We're not talking about children, Yoni. We're talking about college students here.
Hey, Obamacare let's me keep them on my insurance until they're 26 now. And, they're somebody's children but, once again, you miss the point.

As I said, I'm not concerned that Obama is exposing them to the "Power Analysis" principle unless he's advocating for it.

That's all.

George Gervin's Afro
03-25-2010, 03:31 PM
Hey, Obamacare let's me keep them on my insurance until they're 26 now. And, they're somebody's children but, once again, you miss the point.

As I said, I'm not concerned that Obama is exposing them to the "Power Analysis" principle unless he's advocating for it.

That's all.

maybe there wasn't a point to begin with..

boutons_deux
03-25-2010, 03:42 PM
pussyeater nipping at ankles, as always.

clambake
03-25-2010, 03:46 PM
peeling onions made yoni cry.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:48 PM
As I said, I'm not concerned that Obama is exposing them to the "Power Analysis" principle unless he's advocating for it.

That's all.It's big of you to admit some legitimate educational purpose may have been served, when your clear purpose was to highlight Obama's connection to *radical friends* in his edgy, 1990 curriculum.

clambake
03-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Of course, the mainstream media was too tied up in Wasilla to worry

i get it! you're saying that obama uses a blackboard and palin uses her hand, right?

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 03:52 PM
@Yoni: Was Obama propagandizing?

The claim that he was would superficially resemble my facetious allegation upstream that you and SnC are big propagandists for Alinsky in this forum.

Sec24Row7
03-25-2010, 04:58 PM
pussyeater nipping at ankles, as always.

I really have no other point to make here but to ask a question about this...

I've seen you say this several times...

Umm... and this isn't something philosophical...

What do you have against eating pussy?

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 05:11 PM
It seems more like a pretentious mannerism to me. A literal gloss of Yoni's handle, stuck on repeat.

ChumpDumper
03-25-2010, 05:54 PM
So the purpose of this thread is to state that Obama, as a teacher, taught something.

ElNono
03-25-2010, 06:01 PM
I can't believe Glenn Beck missed this...

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 06:09 PM
So the purpose of this thread is to state that Obama, as a teacher, taught something.Apparently the mere mention of Saul Alinsky is supposed to make your eyes roll back.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 06:17 PM
Kulturkampf, rewarmed. Damn hippies.

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 06:23 PM
:rollin

Ok, I thought that was at least a bit funny. I stopped at that point.

Why does that happen sometimes?

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 06:30 PM
It's called lightening up. You should try it sometime.

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 06:32 PM
I think it is wrong for the professor to teach alinsky's rules for radicals. Unless it is a class with that kind of subject(political strategies). This kind of thing reminds me of when my Finite Math and Acct professors would start the day off with Bush/Repub updates.
that is my opinion though and think we should treat the college kids like adults and hold them responsible. Liberal radicalizing college kids seems to be a fact of life. My problem with the Alinsky-Obama connection is the MSM's kid glove treatment of it. However that seems to be a fact of life too so you are right WH, nothing to see here. Wake me when a pro-lifer throws a rock at an abortion clinic.

ChumpDumper
03-25-2010, 06:42 PM
Damn, this is a stupid thread.
My problem with the Alinsky-Obama connection is the MSM's kid glove treatment of it.Tell us all the importance of this connection you perceive.

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 06:42 PM
Liberal radicalizing college kids seems to be a fact of life. True, but the reverse can happen too, and at any rate the jejune excesses of collegiate experimentation are soon papered over with solid respectability and quasi-Republican viewpoints.


My problem with the Alinsky-Obama connection is the MSM's kid glove treatment of it.Let this thread be your horsewhip.

Spread the word, brother. Don't hoard the knowledge.

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 06:51 PM
True, but the reverse can happen too, and at any rate the jejune excesses of collegiate experimentation are soon papered over with solid respectability.

Let this thread be your horsewhip.

Spread the word, brother. Don't hoard the knowledge.

-jO1EOhGkY0

Winehole23
03-25-2010, 09:03 PM
Monty Python default, detected.

spursncowboys
03-25-2010, 09:06 PM
It's called lightening up. You should try it sometime.

ChumpDumper
03-25-2010, 09:08 PM
Tell us all the importance of this connection you perceive.

whottt
03-26-2010, 04:58 AM
There are a shitload of lefty colleges professors that teach lefty shit. The lack of righty college professors teaching righty shit is not the fault of the lefties, but the righties. All that means to me is that Obama was a typical college professor, and no shit he's a lefty(or at least a fake one).

Obama was a lefty teacher and he taught lefty shit. If he'd been a righty teacher he'd have taught righty shit. The ratio of lefties teaching lefty shit to righties teaching righty shit in college is about 100-1 in this country, and it's not because lefties won't let righties teach righty shit, it's that there aren't as many righties that want to teach righty shit.

I think a lot lefites that teach lefty shit are flat out bored talking with the other lefties that teach lefty shit and would actually welcome righties teaching righty shit if only to give them someone to argue with.


Plain and simple, the lefties care about this approach more than the righties do.

Bitching to the lefties that other lefties aren't teaching enough righty shit is never going to get you anywhere. And if they lefties wanted to teach righty shit they'd be righties, not lefties.


It's like expecting the Lakers to score some points for the Spurs.


There is an old saying...if you want something done right, do it yourself.


If righties don't like the lefties dominating the college education system then they need to start becoming college educators themselves.

And make no mistake about it, lefties do dominate the college educational system and they overwhelmingly let their politics influence their teachings to varying degrees whether they intend to or not. And the righties would probably be no different.

I don't like the onesidedness of it, but bitching to the lefties about lefties teaching lefty shit and expecting the lefty media to bitch about it is unrealistic, and lazy.

It's just a different version of wanting the government to wipe your ass for you.

He who spends the most time with the kids get to influence them the most. If you care that much, then do something about it.

This sort of bitching is just like all absentee parents in this country at the secondary school level. Where people take a pass on mentoring their children themselves and pass the responsibility on to the teachers and school systems and then bitch when their kids don't follow the development path the parents want.

Don't expect someone else to do your job for you.


I guess what I am trying to say...if you think Obama teaching, or even becoming President is the problem, you are missing the forrest for the trees. In every college in the country hundreds of thousands kids every day are taught this way, right at the age where they have become disillusioned with much of their upbringing and are looking for truth, and to head their own better direction in life. And the lefties are overhwhelmingly in control of that phase of their lives. And the main reason is because they are there and the righties are not. Period.

Is it some conspiracy? I don't know but I know if you were intent on changing the culture of America, and wanted it to be more of a state society without a massive war or military coup then you would need to control the major media outlets, and the education system before you could take control of the political system in a few generations. There's no doubt who controls the media and the higher education system and has for quite some time. It is a landslide lefty victory. And if it is a conspiracy then it is a brilliantly executed one.

I myself am amazed that anyone comes out of the college education system with any sort of conservative or traditional view. I look at it almost every day and try to figue out it happens with the ones who do come out of college, and basicaly is that they either had some kind strict religious upbringing or they are older and have the benefit of enough life experience to know the lefties are just as full of shit on somethings as their parents were when they were children.

But they overhwelmingly give college students lefty programming and it is backed thoroughly by the media. The only reason this country didn't go totally left 20 years ago or more, has nothing to do with anything the righties have don0e proactively, but rather the charisma of Reagan and the fact that most leftyism at it's heart, sucks just as bad as rightyism and enough kids keep figuring that out a decade or so after getting out of school to keep it from being a lefty rout.


You can bitch about all you want but the only way to change it is to get in there and gets your hands dirty yourself. If the lefties are willing to work harder at this than the righties, the fault lies with the righties, not the lefties.

Being free doesn't mean you get to be lazy. And Obama teaching Alinski would have jack shit bearing on your life right now if it wasn't because of the overwhelming advantage the righties concede to the lefties in college.

LnGrrrR
03-26-2010, 05:06 AM
I approve of this whottt post. :tu

boutons_deux
03-26-2010, 05:21 AM
"it is backed thoroughly by the media"

You Lie

Corporate media, and not just, Murdoch Repug Network Lies, is not librul.

The corporate media that let it itself get hoodwinked by Breitbart to kill ACORN?

The corporate media that didn't stop the bogus neo-c*nt invasion of Iraq-for-oil?

The corporate media that gives equal weight to right-wing lies and then tries to look legitimate by legitimizing the lies in a masquerade of "equal" coverage of both sides?

This bullshit proves that I-love-my-amazing-self-more-than-anything Whott is nothing but a tool of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

If all these lefty-radicalized college kids destroying America, then why is the VRWC claiming America is naturally conservative, that the Repug party is America's Party?

There is absolutely nothing on the left that comes anywhere close to the multi-decade VRWC. WP and NYT are supposed to be bastions of East Coast liberal establishment, but they both are really neo-c*nt.

whottt
03-26-2010, 05:42 AM
"it is backed thoroughly by the media"

You Lie

Corporate media, and not just, Murdoch Repug Network Lies, is not librul.

The corporate media that let it itself get hoodwinked by Breitbart to kill ACORN?

The corporate media that didn't stop the bogus neo-c*nt invasion of Iraq-for-oil?

The corporate media that gives equal weight to right-wing lies and then tries to look legitimate by legitimizing the lies in a masquerade of "equal" coverage of both sides?

This bullshit proves that I-love-my-amazing-self-more-than-anything Whott is nothing but a tool of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

If all these lefty-radicalized college kids destroying America, then why is the VRWC claiming America is naturally conservative, that the Repug party is America's Party?

There is absolutely nothing on the left that comes anywhere close to the multi-decade VRWC. WP and NYT are supposed to be bastions of East Coast liberal establishment, but they both are really neo-c*nt.

Please note: even boutons didn't refute what I said about the college education system. I can tell every rightwinger on this forum...you are getting routed in the colleges.

SouthernFried
03-26-2010, 07:01 AM
I don't think most conservatives here understand...I mean, really understand.

The libs like what Obama says and does. What may outrage you, is no big deal to them. Whatever it takes man. They don't have a problem with it.

All your outrage does nothing but invite the inevitable muddying of the waters..."they all do it...this is no big deal...quit whining." Which all boils down to, "we like what he's doing and we don't care about how he's doing it."

Outrage about leftist leanings and methods generally doesn't affect those who support those leftist ideals and methods...and leftists dominate most political forums. They wont admit to it cuz they are liars...but they agree with Obama and Alinsky. Mostly because politics and govt are the means to leftists goals... of more govt and more politics.

Both of which conservatives want less of.

So, what outrages normal, freedom/liberty loving people...makes them happy.

The only reason conservatives are now more involved...is because leftists have went too far, and are affecting conservatives everyday lives by the only means leftists can...through govt and politics.

Always been this way, always has. Leftists always want larger govt and more govt control.

Think of it as the old analogy...the pencil dick guy who buys a corvette trying to make up for it. Just substitute govt and politics for the corvette...and you have your average leftist guy.

...and so it goes, and so shall it ever go.

Winehole23
03-26-2010, 07:17 AM
Outrage about leftist leanings and methods generally doesn't affect those who support those leftist ideals and methods...and leftists dominate most political forums. They wont admit to it cuz they are liars...but they agree with Obama and Alinsky.Mmmreally? Like who? Or were you just speaking abstractly?

LnGrrrR
03-26-2010, 07:26 AM
SouthernFried, I wasn't aware we had an anarchist on this board. Congratulations for being the board's first that I know of!

Winehole23
03-26-2010, 07:47 AM
Ran off and hid.

SF doesn't really do conversation. More like smug bits.

George Gervin's Afro
03-26-2010, 07:53 AM
I don't think most conservatives here understand...I mean, really understand.

The libs like what Obama says and does. What may outrage you, is no big deal to them. Whatever it takes man. They don't have a problem with it.

All your outrage does nothing but invite the inevitable muddying of the waters..."they all do it...this is no big deal...quit whining." Which all boils down to, "we like what he's doing and we don't care about how he's doing it."

Outrage about leftist leanings and methods generally doesn't affect those who support those leftist ideals and methods...and leftists dominate most political forums. They wont admit to it cuz they are liars...but they agree with Obama and Alinsky. Mostly because politics and govt are the means to leftists goals... of more govt and more politics.

Both of which conservatives want less of.

So, what outrages normal, freedom/liberty loving people...makes them happy.

The only reason conservatives are now more involved...is because leftists have went too far, and are affecting conservatives everyday lives by the only means leftists can...through govt and politics.

Always been this way, always has. Leftists always want larger govt and more govt control.

Think of it as the old analogy...the pencil dick guy who buys a corvette trying to make up for it. Just substitute govt and politics for the corvette...and you have your average leftist guy.

...and so it goes, and so shall it ever go.

:lmao

You should be a stand up comic...

RandomGuy
03-26-2010, 08:00 AM
I think the author's inference is the chalkboard is direct evidence he was teaching "Power Analysis," a Saul Alinsky concept taken directly from his book, "Rules for Radicals."

and I should care because...?

RandomGuy
03-26-2010, 08:10 AM
I think it is wrong for the professor to teach alinsky's rules for radicals. Unless it is a class with that kind of subject(political strategies).

See that what my thought when looking at the photograph is that one doesn't have any perspective as to the exact context of the photo.

What if it was taken at a seminar for the community organizing stuff he did?

What if it was taken at a class about political science?

:sleep

Gashole23
03-26-2010, 08:15 AM
Ran off and hid.

+4 or 5

RandomGuy
03-26-2010, 08:20 AM
Rules for Radicals


In 1971, Saul Alinsky wrote an entertaining classic on grassroots organizing titled Rules for Radicals. Those who prefer cooperative tactics describe the book as out-of-date. Nevertheless, it provides some of the best advice on confrontational tactics. Alinsky begins this way:

What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away.

His “rules” derive from many successful campaigns where he helped poor people fighting power and privilege

For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting what is wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a bad situation, they stop thinking about it.

According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside — must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a bad situation. Alinsky would say, “The first step in community organization is community disorganization.”

Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a “mass army” that brings in as many recruits as possible from local organizations, churches, services groups, labor unions, corner gangs, and individuals.

Alinsky provides a collection of rules to guide the process. But he emphasizes these rules must be translated into real-life tactics that are fluid and responsive to the situation at hand.

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.

Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people.
The result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”

Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.

Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”

Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.

Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”

http://vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html


Doesn't seem to be much that shocking there to me. I'm sure someone will object to the "Christian church" dig, but hey.

Quite frankly it seems like something the Tea Party might be able to use.

I have no problem with any of that.

Non-violent protest tactics for people who don't have a lot of free spe- er, money, to influence politics to advance their own interests.

Yonivore, can you please tell me why specifically this is a bad thing?

It seems that you seem to think it is, which truly baffles me.

RandomGuy
03-26-2010, 08:24 AM
Why does that happen sometimes?

Hmm, I seem to remember something about somebody coding for the board doing something where "Luck_The_Fakers_" got substituted or inserted in random (HA) places.

Kori probably knows what the deal is.

As you can see, my memory of that is fuzzy.

whottt
03-26-2010, 08:28 AM
Rules for Radicals


In 1971, Saul Alinsky wrote an entertaining classic on grassroots organizing titled Rules for Radicals. Those who prefer cooperative tactics describe the book as out-of-date. Nevertheless, it provides some of the best advice on confrontational tactics. Alinsky begins this way:

What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away.

His “rules” derive from many successful campaigns where he helped poor people fighting power and privilege

For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting what is wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a bad situation, they stop thinking about it.

According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside — must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a bad situation. Alinsky would say, “The first step in community organization is community disorganization.”

Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a “mass army” that brings in as many recruits as possible from local organizations, churches, services groups, labor unions, corner gangs, and individuals.

Alinsky provides a collection of rules to guide the process. But he emphasizes these rules must be translated into real-life tactics that are fluid and responsive to the situation at hand.

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.

Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people.
The result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”

Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.

Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”

Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.

Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”

http://vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html


Doesn't seem to be much that shocking there to me. I'm sure someone will object to the "Christian church" dig, but hey.

Quite frankly it seems like something the Tea Party might be able to use.

I have no problem with any of that.

Non-violent protest tactics for people who don't have a lot of free spe- er, money, to influence politics to advance their own interests.

Yonivore, can you please tell me why specifically this is a bad thing?

It seems that you seem to think it is, which truly baffles me.



Sounds like a manipulator to me.

Winehole23
03-26-2010, 08:32 AM
+4 or 5+gashole

Winehole23
03-26-2010, 12:40 PM
Cheers, Gashole!

Winehole23
03-26-2010, 12:46 PM
:beer

ChumpDumper
03-26-2010, 12:53 PM
Sounds like a manipulator to me.
Sounds like pretty much any politician.

Why does this matter?

Winehole23
01-26-2012, 12:26 PM
British blogger Richard Adams reads up on (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2012/jan/24/republican-presidential-nomination-2012-newt-gingrich) Saul Alinsky:

[He] was what passes for a left-wing radical in American politics, agitating for better living conditions for the poor in the slums of Chicago and New York – that has been filtered through the likes of right-wing talkshow hosts such as Glenn Beck and Mark Levin. ... Rather than the far-left figure that Gingrich and others would paint him, Alinsky appears in his writings – including Rules for Radicals (http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/dp/0679721134), published in 1971 – to be more concerned with the nuts and bolts of grassroots organisation in effecting change. "Dogma is the enemy of human freedom," Alinsky once observed, and said he never considered joining the Communist party.
Dan Savage draws (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/01/24/who-is-this-radical-anti-american-saul-alinksy-person) a parallel:

Alinsky's advice to young radicals—"go home, organize, build power [and] you be the delegates"—is the strategy adopted by American religious right and social conservatives in the 1980s.

They're organized, they're the delegates, they pack the school boards, they pack the city councils and state legislatures. The right's adoption of Alinsky's strategy was a success for the right and a disaster for the country. But you gotta give 'em credit: the right got out there and they organized and they built power. And how did they do that? Well, they did it with... wait for it... community organizers!
Andrew Kaczynski dug up (http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/photo-exclusive-when-george-romney-met-saul-alins) the above image:

In the wake of the devastating Detroit riots of the summer of 1967, Michigan Gov. George Romney — a liberal Republican — met the radical organizer Saul Alinsky to discuss the grievances of the urban black poor. ... "I think you ought to listen to Alinsky," Romney told his white allies, according to T. George Harris's 1968 book, "Romney's Way (http://books.google.com/books/about/Romney_s_way.html?id=e1A8AAAAIAAJ)."
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/01/newts-boogeyman.html

101A
01-26-2012, 02:17 PM
I thought Obama's piece in the OP was well written and thought out. Frankly, more respect, not less, after reading that.