View Full Version : RIP Tim Duncan's shooting touch/post game
TDfan2007
03-25-2010, 02:58 AM
That beautiful jumper and post game that characterized his early season revival are now a distant memory. It's tough to watch, but his body is done.
Yes, Tim's averaging a career low in minutes this season, but it's what he's been asked to do that's the key issue here. He must set a million screens a game, anchor the defense, and bang inside/carry most of the scoring load. I, and probably a lot of you, got spoiled after Tim's amazing start and took it for granted.
The problem with Tim's offense is this:
The truth is that his quickness and lift are gone. He can't get by anyone. Unfortunately, he's now also too lean/weak to get solid position in the post or back down decent defenders. So any post-up situation ends up with him tossing up a difficult shot. Some nights they go in (Atlanta), but most nights they haven't. Add this to the fact that his jumpshot and bankshot are abysmally off (presumably due to knee problems and not getting good enough lift) you can see why he's looked so awful on offense.
It was great watching Tim produce 20 and 10 night after night while it lasted. Those days are gone and we just have to accept it.
Our ONLY hope this season is for Manu to keep playing at this level, for Tony to suddenly regain his 2008-2009 form, RJ to run back to Milwaukee and grab his nutsack, and Keith Bogans and George Hill (yes, Hill) to stop playing such garbage perimeter D.
Should be an interesting finish.
:flag:
DesignatedT
03-25-2010, 03:00 AM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. calm down.
santymrc
03-25-2010, 03:01 AM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. Calm down.
+1
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. Calm down.
x 1,000,000
timtonymanu
03-25-2010, 03:51 AM
our only hope this season is for manu to keep playing at this level, for tony to suddenly regain his 2008-2009 form, rj to run back to new jersey and grab his nutsack, and keith bogans and george hill (yes, hill) to stop playing such garbage perimeter d.
Should be an interesting finish.
:flag:
fify
21_Blessings
03-25-2010, 03:54 AM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. calm down.
Are you guys really still calling Duncan a power forward? It's not 1999 anymore. He's a center all the way.
http://www.82games.com/0910/09SAS15.HTM#bypos
Fpoonsie
03-25-2010, 03:56 AM
Maybe we could just sticky a "Timmy Sucks" thread at the top of the page a la the "Kobe Walks on Water" sticky in the NBA Forum...save the repetitive posters the trouble.
Though, admittedly, the OP in THIS thread WAS the most well-written.
MaNu4Tres
03-25-2010, 03:57 AM
Are you guys really still calling Duncan a power forward? It's not 1999 anymore. He's a center all the way.
http://www.82games.com/0910/09SAS15.HTM#bypos
Center or Power Forward who gives a crap. The player will not alter their play according to their position. Duncan will do what Duncan has done at the 4 or 5. It's really irrelevant.
21_Blessings
03-25-2010, 04:03 AM
Center or Power Forward who gives a crap. The player will not alter their play according to their position. Duncan will do what Duncan has done at the 4 or 5. It's really irrelevant.
Not really.
Duncan is the 'greatest power forward ever' even though he's played more minutes at center in his career and only played the 4 when he was younger because the Spurs already had a hall of famer at center.
You put Timmy in the center category, which is where he really belongs and you're talking Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses and oh yeah that Tim Duncan guy.
MaNu4Tres
03-25-2010, 04:08 AM
Not really.
Duncan is the 'greatest power forward ever' even though he's played more minutes at center in his career and only played the 4 when he was younger because the Spurs already had a hall of famer at center.
You put Timmy in the center category, which is where he really belongs and you're talking Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses and oh yeah that Tim Duncan guy.
Uhh.... Yes really..
Tim was more multifaceted and versatile than any of those players you mentioned. He possesses the skills of a forward and a center. None of those players can say the same. The closest is Hakeem. Tim is versatile in the sense where he can be considered either a center or power forward.
Trimble87
03-25-2010, 04:25 AM
You put Timmy in the center category, which is where he really belongs and you're talking Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses and oh yeah that Tim Duncan guy.
First, who gives a shit whether hes a center or pf, hes a top 10 all time regardless.
Second, if you count him as a center it would go RUSSELL, Kareem, Wilt, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses.
Shaq and Duncan are incredibly different in the way they play, but they both dominated. If Shaq ever gets a 5th ring, especially if its before Duncan, then he may move past him. But not only has his play gone way south since 05-06 but hes not played a full season since then either.
Wilt was a stat padding jackass who should have won 5+ titles and didn't. I hate Wilt. But he has to be on there :bang.
Hakeem has three GREAT seasons and a ton of good ones. If not for the two jordan-less titles he wouldn't be on this list imo.
i am kind of tired of tim's pathetic post moves where all he does is go right. He also needs to spend more time lifting weights because he cant get any positon down low, although it's too late now. Duncan breaking down is pretty bad news as no one else on the spurs can score down low.
TDfan2007
03-25-2010, 10:09 AM
Maybe we could just sticky a "Timmy Sucks" thread at the top of the page a la the "Kobe Walks on Water" sticky in the NBA Forum...save the repetitive posters the trouble.
Though, admittedly, the OP in THIS thread WAS the most well-written.
I'm not saying he sucks. I'm just saying he can't do the 20 and 10 thing every night like he used to. His body won't let him. Those "stupid" shots that people complain about are the result of him physically being unable to get good position on/get around his defender.
I will say this though...I'm still surprised that they aren't falling. Tim has never been one to have good shot selection. Even in his MVP years he took tough shots, he just made most of them. Now they're not falling for some reason. I've seen more of his jumpers/post shots rattle in and out this year than any year before. It's probably got something to do with the fact that EVERY shot he shoots is contested. I rarely see him take open jumpers anymore.
ffadicted
03-25-2010, 12:56 PM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. calm down.
+ over 9000
ffadicted
03-25-2010, 12:57 PM
:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry
Killakobe81
03-25-2010, 01:05 PM
Eeryone knows he is a center but either way ... he is 3rd best beind Kareem and Hakeem in my lifetime ...just ahead of Shaq ...that is grat company ...
aT PF he is the all-time best but he only played that for 3 real seasons ...the other centers he played with were true PF's or place holder centers for Horry etc to come in and play the key minutes ...and horry is no center.
What's he averaging now that the days of 20 and 10 are gone? You know, while playing career low minutes? Let me pop over to NBA.com...
Oh I see. He's now only a 18 and 10 guy at 5 less minutes per game than his career average. Put that guy out to pasture, cause he's DONE.
Chomag
03-25-2010, 01:17 PM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. calm down.
You realize that this would be the natural amount of games in the playoffs?
Tims not wearing Tim out. The FO is.
TDfan2007
03-25-2010, 01:26 PM
What's he averaging now that the days of 20 and 10 are gone? You know, while playing career low minutes? Let me pop over to NBA.com...
Oh I see. He's now only a 18 and 10 guy at 5 less minutes per game than his career average. Put that guy out to pasture, cause he's DONE.
Please look up his stats post-ASG. Specifically, look up rebounds and FG%. You might be surprised.
Tim doesn't really even want to shoot it anymore. How many times have you seen him pass up an open jumper or inexplicably kick the ball out of the post when you were sure he'd shoot it? Why is he taking so few shots with Tony out?
MaNu4Tres
03-25-2010, 01:32 PM
Tim doesn't really even want to shoot it anymore. How many times have you seen him pass up an open jumper or inexplicably kick the ball out of the post when you were sure he'd shoot it? Why is he taking so few shots with Tony out?
Confidence, nothing more nothing less. His confidence isn't there psychologically. Tim has had a stretch of such every season since 05 roughly, so it's nothing new.
FromWayDowntown
03-25-2010, 01:33 PM
When Tim Duncan averages 23 ppg and 12 rpg as the Spurs are swept out in the first round of the 2010 playoffs, those who've been writing him off are going to be really confused.
8FOR!3
03-25-2010, 01:40 PM
Are you guys really still calling Duncan a power forward? It's not 1999 anymore. He's a center all the way.
http://www.82games.com/0910/09SAS15.HTM#bypos
More like it's not 2008 anymore? He's always been a power forward, but what are you going to do when there's no center on your team? Now that Oberto is gone, he's the only realistic center.
FromWayDowntown
03-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Not really.
Duncan is the 'greatest power forward ever' even though he's played more minutes at center in his career and only played the 4 when he was younger because the Spurs already had a hall of famer at center.
From 1997-2006, Duncan played alongside centers -- David Robinson, Rasho Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed -- who played more minutes at the 5 than Duncan did.
If Duncan has begun playing more minutes as a center than as a power forward, that's a relatively late-in-his-career development. I'm not sure that such a change amounts to him having "played more minutes at center in his career."
It's interesting as well that Tim Duncan, the center, has been elected to start 11 straight All-Star games as a forward, not a center.
Besides, I'm not sure who really gets to decide which guy is a center and which guy is a power forward. When the Warriors play a lineup of Anthony Tolliver, Anthony Morrow, Corey Maggette, Steph Curry, and Monta Ellis, who is the center in that group? Is there a center? Does there have to be a center. Allocating minutes to a player as "a center" seems more a matter of bookkeeping convenience than anything else. And, in at least some instances, its a fairly arbitrary allocation.
But if you're inclined to suggest that Tim Duncan isn't "the best" something or other, one convenient way to do that is to put him into a different positional category by arbitrarily skewing numbers in your favor and then seeking to diminish his place in history, however revisionist that history might be.
blkroadrunners
03-25-2010, 01:43 PM
+ over 9000
Co-signed. :hat
You realize that this would be the natural amount of games in the playoffs?
Tims not wearing Tim out. The FO is.
You're trying too hard to be the guy who leads the "front office sucks!" movement. You're not even making sense anymore.
dbestpro
03-25-2010, 01:51 PM
I agree that Tim has been harmed more by trying to man the inside by himself than he would if he played extended minutes next to a compenent big man.
Galileo
03-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Duncan had 12 rebounds, 6 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks and 2 steals.
Duncan had a shitty game, but only THREE PLAYERS have done this all season:
Tim
Lebron
Camby
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=trb&c1comp=gt&c1val=12&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=blk&c3comp=gt&c3val=3&c4stat=stl&c4comp=gt&c4val=2&order_by=pts
neboat
03-25-2010, 02:07 PM
Are you guys really still calling Duncan a power forward? It's not 1999 anymore. He's a center all the way.
http://www.82games.com/0910/09SAS15.HTM#bypos
Thank you for steering this topic away.... :wakeup
I think we've been thru this a million times. TD calls himself a PF... and a lot of us like to acknowledge him as a PF.
Tim, poor shooting or not, is always valuable because of his rebounding and threat of scoring (even if not going well) and his ability to guard the rim (at least he's the only one on the team that can actually defend the rim).
Big men that can rebound, shoot a little, and block a few shots, and stay relatively healthy can stay in the league beyond 40. Even if they don't dominate, they are still effective for a reduced role.
Chomag
03-25-2010, 02:30 PM
You're trying too hard to be the guy who leads the "front office sucks!" movement. You're not even making sense anymore.
So you think the FO has done a good job at getting TD help? Never said "the front office suck" as you seem to be wanting to quote me on, but I have said they have not done a good job.
Yep, I'm leading this. :rolleyes
How about you post something meaningful other then something to help make your epeen grow.
bdictjames
03-25-2010, 04:52 PM
I agree. This isn't the same 20-10 Duncan anymore. Hopefully Tim gets his mind and IQ right. The passing is perfect. The scoring needs adjustment.
HarlemHeat37
03-25-2010, 05:58 PM
His game isn't done at all, he just isn't a go-to guy anymore..his game will no longer be consistent..some nights we're going to see a vintage performance, and on other nights we'll see the Duncan we saw vs. the Lakers..that's the reality that comes with old age and mileage..
Duncan is one of the best passing big men in NBA history IMO and he's improved his J(although it has sucked in the 2nd half of the season, probably due to not having any lift and being flat), so I'd like to see him play in the high post more often..
Timmy was supposed to be a 3rd or 4th option this season from a scoring perspective..unfortunately with TP's injury, Manu's slow first-half and Jefferson continuing to suck, it has taken a toll..
TD 21
03-25-2010, 06:24 PM
His game isn't done at all, he just isn't a go-to guy anymore..his game will no longer be consistent..some nights we're going to see a vintage performance, and on other nights we'll see the Duncan we saw vs. the Lakers..that's the reality that comes with old age and mileage..
Duncan is one of the best passing big men in NBA history IMO and he's improved his J(although it has sucked in the 2nd half of the season, probably due to not having any lift and being flat), so I'd like to see him play in the high post more often..
Timmy was supposed to be a 3rd or 4th option this season from a scoring perspective..unfortunately with TP's injury, Manu's slow first-half and Jefferson continuing to suck, it has taken a toll..
With Blair rarely ever playing with Duncan, the Spurs don't have a post presence if Duncan doesn't play down there. All this "play him in the high post" talk the past few years sounds great in theory and may be doable next season if Splitter comes over and assuming Blair progresses and plays more, but for right now, that doesn't make much sense.
Duncan (and Gasol, for that matter) isn't really a PF or a C, he's a hybrid type big man. Earlier in his career, when he was more mobile, he was more of a PF, at this point in his career, with him being less mobile, he's more of a C (this is also a commentary on the way the game has changed the past ten years; if you put this Duncan in 90s, he'd probably still play more PF than C), but he's not a true C like an O'Neal, so he needs to be paired with another center sized big who can guard mobile PF's, but also take a turn guarding C's at certain points in games (similar to the role Duncan used to play when Robinson was around).
Maybe they can get one in the draft with Udoh or Sanders or someone of that ilk, but it's doubtful either would be a serious contributor next season. It's also unlikely with their limited resources/assets, that the Spurs could fill that role via free agency or trade. So basically, let's hope Splitter comes over, otherwise this will more than likely continue to be a problem for the duration of the Duncan era.
HarlemHeat37
03-25-2010, 06:33 PM
Oh, I agree that they can't do it consistently, but they have had some success with it even this season..plays like the alley-oop he threw Jefferson against LA..him and TP do it all the time with the 2-man game..it would be nice if we had more slashers to work with him, unfortunately our bigs and rotation wings are all jump shooters that can't play that way..
This team's plays are too simple sometimes..
I also agree that Duncan has to play in the post often or the Spurs become even more of a jump shooting team(which they already are)..it's all about the circumstances, which have killed this team..
Part of the reason I've been lobbying for Mahinmi all year(other than the obvious reasons) is to see some high-low..the guy has his flaws, but he can get up and finish at the rim..Ian and Blair playing high-low in garbage time was sadly one of the most entertaining sequences of Spurs basketball this season IMO, even though that sounds sad..
The Lakers and Celtics do it so well with Perkins/Bynum feeding off of Gasol and KG's passing for easy dunks, it's good basketball(yes, I realize Mahinmi isn't nearly as good as Bynum or Perkins, before one of the Popoligists comes through)..
Obstructed_View
03-25-2010, 06:33 PM
When Timmy goes through a bad phase, which would be a good to great phase for the vast majority of players, it's amazing how many premature ejaculation posts we suddenly get. The last time we had all these "timmy is old and done" comments, didn't he have two 25+ rebound games in a short span?
HarlemHeat37
03-25-2010, 06:37 PM
That's what annoys me, same with the media..
These fans and media will keep repeating Duncan is done and the Spurs are done a million times, it's been happening since 2006, and once they're finally right, they'll brag about it and act like it was some outrageous prediction..
murpjf88
03-25-2010, 06:42 PM
Its a quick knee jerk reaction. But its not just Timmy. Their have been Manu, parker, Rj, bogans, Bonner, Mason, and Pop phases. If a mod doesn't combine the threads into one, You get a slew of them. Duncan is the Spur of the moment.
Ashy Larry
03-25-2010, 06:54 PM
TD is done.
don't he have 2 years and 40 million left on his contract? If so, brutality at its best .....
duncan228
03-25-2010, 07:07 PM
don't he have 2 years and 40 million left on his contract?
Yes.
18,835,381 for 2010-11
21,164,619 for 2011-12
TD 21
03-25-2010, 07:22 PM
Oh, I agree that they can't do it consistently, but they have had some success with it even this season..plays like the alley-oop he threw Jefferson against LA..him and TP do it all the time with the 2-man game..it would be nice if we had more slashers to work with him, unfortunately our bigs and rotation wings are all jump shooters that can't play that way..
This team's plays are too simple sometimes..
I also agree that Duncan has to play in the post often or the Spurs become even more of a jump shooting team(which they already are)..it's all about the circumstances, which have killed this team..
Part of the reason I've been lobbying for Mahinmi all year(other than the obvious reasons) is to see some high-low..the guy has his flaws, but he can get up and finish at the rim..Ian and Blair playing high-low in garbage time was sadly one of the most entertaining sequences of Spurs basketball this season IMO, even though that sounds sad..
The Lakers and Celtics do it so well with Perkins/Bynum feeding off of Gasol and KG's passing for easy dunks, it's good basketball(yes, I realize Mahinmi isn't nearly as good as Bynum or Perkins, before one of the Popoligists comes through)..
I agree, from time to time it makes sense.
Mahinmi will probably be a useful rotation player in the league going forward and probably by as soon as next season and this dumb coach isn't even going to find out what the organization has in him, despite the team desperately needing someone with his physical attributes and the fact that they spent a 1st round pick and oodles of time/money developing this guy. Unbelievable.
Watch them draft Udoh or Sanders now (not that I'm against this, seeing as how they won't find out what they have in Mahinmi) and Mahinmi turn out to be, if not better, right in their class. So in essence, if that's the case, it'll have been a wasted 1st round pick.
That's what annoys me, same with the media..
These fans and media will keep repeating Duncan is done and the Spurs are done a million times, it's been happening since 2006, and once they're finally right, they'll brag about it and act like it was some outrageous prediction..
Even worse, they all leave the door open at the end of their articles, just by the off chance that they're wrong again and this team rises from the dead one more time to at least make a deep run. All this doom and gloom talk and then that, because they want to save face. I'd have more respect for their cliche articles if they just flat out said they're done and left it at that and not worry about saving face.
But the thing that annoys me most about the national media writing about the Spurs is their pretending that Bryant has been the consensus best player in the world for years now. Many of these same idiots called Duncan the best player in the world for the majority of the past decade, yet since the Gasol trade and the subsequent power shirt are pretending as if that never happened. I remember the annual player rankings on a lot of these sites going into 07-08, most of them had Duncan number one even then. Eight months later, they were pretending that he didn't even rank amongst the best players in the league anymore. Just further perpetuating the myth to the casual fan that this has been Bryant's league for the past decade, even though true fans know he's a distant third in that regard.
Yes.
18,835,381 for 2010-11
21,164,619 for 2011-12
You overpay for mega-superstars at the end of their careers to get the benefits of their mega-superstar play at the front end of the contract. Four championships later, no Spur fan should be complaining of what Tim is making for the next two years.
Kobe is up for a new contract. And L.A. is going to pay him what he wants for probably the next five or six years. By that time, Kobe will be a shell of himself and regularly dunked on by the Lebrons and the Durrants. But that's what you pay for to get Kobe's all NBA production right now.
It's the same with all the other mega superstars, and tragically, some superstars.
duncan228
03-25-2010, 07:33 PM
Four championships later, no Spur fan should be complaining of what Tim is making for the next two years.
Just so there's no confusion, I have no issue with Duncan's salary. I was just answering Ashy Larry's question. :)
Right. I was just commenting on why mega stars make big bucks when they are in obvious decline. And yes Tim is in decline. Watch videos of him in 2002 and 2003 and you appreciate how truly awesome he was. He's still good but not near as good.
Spurs da champs
03-25-2010, 11:46 PM
it was the 6th game in 9 nights for a 33 year old power forward. calm down.
Still if Timmy better conditioned himself he wouldn't have to worry about fatigue as much. He's a skinny old man watching Gasol block him was sad.
senorglory
03-25-2010, 11:59 PM
Not really.
Duncan is the 'greatest power forward ever' even though he's played more minutes at center in his career and only played the 4 when he was younger because the Spurs already had a hall of famer at center.
You put Timmy in the center category, which is where he really belongs and you're talking Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses and oh yeah that Tim Duncan guy.
David Robinson was the greatest center of all time. Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time.
Matt Bonner is the greatest red headed three point shooting non-rebounding big man of all time.
J_Paco
03-26-2010, 12:07 AM
Still if Timmy better conditioned himself he wouldn't have to worry about fatigue as much. He's a skinny old man watching Gasol block him was sad.
What the hell are you saying? Duncan was specifically told by coach Pop not to overwork himself with strength and conditioning over the Summer. That was in hopes that he could work himself into shape through training camp and into the regular season. His responsibilities were supposed to be lessened as well, as he's reaching the twilight of his career, but all those plans didn't matter or changed when Tony got injured and the team relied on Timmy too much and too early in the season.
Timmy's the only fucking reason this team is even in the playoff race.
mingus
03-26-2010, 12:57 AM
TD, like it has already been said, is a 3rd option. he's clearly second tier now (he's not on Gasol, Dwight, Amare, or Dirk's level). people have to realize that everybody has their time, but also their decline, unfortunately. Duncan's shined bright when it was his time though, brighter than any of those guys ever will.
it's unfortunate. at this point we shouldn't have to see him try and be a second option. he's out of his league (on most nights against good comp.), but he's got to bite the bullet while TP is injured.
If TP can get back and play like last year, and Manu can play the way he's playing, and RJ continues to improve (he's been making strides lately) the team will pose a serious threat in the West. it's a lot that has to happen, but that's still a seriously talented core.
mingus
03-26-2010, 01:02 AM
Rem. also with TP back the rotation gets smaller and you see less of Bogans and Mason, both of whom have hurt the Spurs badly this year and will be lucky to have conracts in the NBA next year.
DesignatedT
03-26-2010, 01:08 AM
TD, like it has already been said, is a 3rd option. he's clearly second tier now (he's not on Gasol, Dwight, Amare, or Dirk's level). people have to realize that everybody has their time, but also their decline, unfortunately. Duncan's shined bright when it was his time though, brighter than any of those guys ever will.
it's unfortunate. at this point we shouldn't have to see him try and be a second option. he's out of his league (on most nights against good comp.), but he's got to bite the bullet while TP is injured.
If TP can get back and play like last year, and Manu can play the way he's playing, and RJ continues to improve (he's been making strides lately) the team will pose a serious threat in the West. it's a lot that has to happen, but that's still a seriously talented core.
Duncan had to be the first option up untill last month. thats what took the toll on him. he was never a 2nd option until manu finally started to play like himself. IMO it sounds like your counting Duncan out too much. This month has been very hard on him because we have had 17 games this month and last nights game was Duncans 6th game in 9 nights... thats not easy for a 33 year old with bad knees. main thing with duncan is he needs rest... he is not the player he used to be but he is far from being done and he is nowhere near "out of his league".
When he gets the proper rest and gets to recover 2 or 3 days between games it really shows on the court giving him that much needed lift and elevation that he lacks when hes fatigued... and also say what you want but duncan was still our best defensive player on the court last night and holding gasol to 10 points and a horrible game offensively is pretty good for someone who is "out of his league"
Tony definitely needs to come back and come back strong thats obvious at this point and i believe he can do that.
as for RJ, dont hold your breath on that choke artist.
boutons_deux
03-26-2010, 02:03 AM
"team will pose a serious threat in the West"
:lol
Rockets are keeping Spurs OUT of 9th place, NOT the Spurs keeping themselves in the playoffs.
Spur will finish 8th, drop 2 games in LA, split in SA (I'm being insanely optimistic), and lose in LA. gone fishin, 1-4
mingus
03-26-2010, 03:24 AM
i said a lot has to happen/come together; if it does, they'll be threat. you miscontruing what i said (next time trying including the rest of what i say in your reply). i never said it was likely that the stuff that needs to almost magically happen will happen. just saying if it does, we'll be a threat.
mingus
03-26-2010, 03:38 AM
Duncan had to be the first option up untill last month. thats what took the toll on him. he was never a 2nd option until manu finally started to play like himself. IMO it sounds like your counting Duncan out too much. This month has been very hard on him because we have had 17 games this month and last nights game was Duncans 6th game in 9 nights... thats not easy for a 33 year old with bad knees. main thing with duncan is he needs rest... he is not the player he used to be but he is far from being done and he is nowhere near "out of his league".
When he gets the proper rest and gets to recover 2 or 3 days between games it really shows on the court giving him that much needed lift and elevation that he lacks when hes fatigued... and also say what you want but duncan was still our best defensive player on the court last night and holding gasol to 10 points and a horrible game offensively is pretty good for someone who is "out of his league"
Tony definitely needs to come back and come back strong thats obvious at this point and i believe he can do that.
as for RJ, dont hold your breath on that choke artist.
it will only get tougher for TD. i don't see things changing. and i never said that defenisvely he was out of his league. in terms of scoring though, he's declined a lot. the Spurs used to get 30 15 3 blk consistentyl from him in games against the best comp. he's clearly no longer that player. the probelm is RJ and McDyess (McDyess esp of late) can't make amends for that. with RJ i personally think it's more a matter of Pop that is the problem with him. RJ doesn't get enough plays called for him, nor the right ones. while McDyess is just sucking and not developing ian.
It was great watching Tim produce 20 and 10 night after night while it lasted. Those days are gone and we just have to accept it.
:flag:
Love this stuff.
TDfan2007
04-04-2010, 07:41 PM
Love this stuff.
If he gets 20 and 10 the rest of the way and into the playoffs then I'll happily eat my words.
It was great to see him take it right at Gasol and punish him today.
EricB
04-04-2010, 07:56 PM
ah so now its the rest of the way :lol
Pathetic.
TDfan2007
04-05-2010, 12:00 AM
ah so now its the rest of the way :lol
Pathetic.
Read my original post. Yes the thread title is melodramatic, but I just said that he can't do it NIGHT AFTER NIGHT anymore. If he does from here on in, then yeah, I'll eat my crow and you can fire away.
Btw Dice is absolutely NO help to Tim in the paint defensively. It's pathetic.
lennyalderette
04-05-2010, 12:30 AM
shut the hell up!! you want to see a done horse??!?!?!?! look at bostons garnett now thats done!!!!! timmy has been playing of the glass banking shots and laying it up with finess during seasons and playoffs, even finals he carried himself the same, if anyone is going to last the longest its timmy!!! he plays with his cerebelum not the muscles that betray people hence garnett he relied on his natural athleticism !! every year and now hes done!! yes timmy has declined but you know what hes healthier this year than last year when he was younger and you knw what?? hes putting up better numbers you know why??? because he stayed healthy dropped weight and yes his scoring and rebounding are going to drop but he has never needed to dunk over people to win games he has always known how to put the ball in the hole w/the least amount of expended energy THE Least!!! so i say hes got threee more years!!YES 3
lennyalderette
04-05-2010, 12:33 AM
you know what timmy will do more of when his body gets older practice his bank shots and perimeter shooting!!! that wont fail you, yes you still need lift but like i said he wasnt playing garnett ball he was playing timmy ball and will last suprisingly long mark my words
Btw Dice is absolutely NO help to Tim in the paint defensively. It's pathetic.
:lmao
SpurCharger
04-05-2010, 09:34 AM
Actually I believe Tim Duncan Will Play Great From Here on out. I think He was conserving himself for the playoff Run. Plus In the Playoffs, You never play On Back to backs, you Almost always Get A day In between Games.
Oh And dice Is Playing Alot Better now, He Is not Dominating, But if ya ask me I think He is playing better Then Kurt Thomas Was At This time last year.
I just Hope Mr Hill Gets Healthy Quick, I think He is Huge to Our success In A Playoff run.
TJastal
04-05-2010, 09:52 AM
Btw Dice is absolutely NO help to Tim in the paint defensively. It's pathetic.
:lmao
What a typical douche on ST. You probably still think Jefferson is completely worthless too.
NFGIII
04-05-2010, 10:04 AM
Eeryone knows he is a center but either way ... he is 3rd best beind Kareem and Hakeem in my lifetime ...just ahead of Shaq ...that is grat company ...
aT PF he is the all-time best but he only played that for 3 real seasons ...the other centers he played with were true PF's or place holder centers for Horry etc to come in and play the key minutes ...and horry is no center.
I think he has been more of a 5 since '07. After Drob retired in '03 he stated playing more at the 5 but was still a 4. When Rasho and Nazr left after '06 then he has played much more at the 5 since the Spurs never were able to get a 5 in the mold of Rasho or Nazr. All 5s since haven't been able to play the 5 the way Pop wants them to and the way the D is designed to work. The 5s coming in '07 and beyond just don't seem to have the neccessary skills to do that.
big daddy russ
04-05-2010, 12:21 PM
Not really.
Duncan is the 'greatest power forward ever' even though he's played more minutes at center in his career and only played the 4 when he was younger because the Spurs already had a hall of famer at center.
You put Timmy in the center category, which is where he really belongs and you're talking Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses and oh yeah that Tim Duncan guy.
No, he hasn't logged more minutes at C.
1997-2003 D-Rob was our C
2003-2006 Rasho Nesterovic
Both these guys logged many more minutes at C than Duncan ever did. It wasn't until that 06-07 when Pop plugged in Oberto that Duncan really became more of a "floater."
Because of that, his minutes these last four years can't be characterized by time spent exclusively at one position or the other. Sometimes he plays the high post, sometimes he plays the low post. And he'll switch between offense and defense, and as assignments change.
But to counter your argument, Duncan's played significantly more minutes at the PF position than at C.
Tim isn't young anymore. But, in my opinion anyway, I don't think he is struggling because his shooting touch/post game have just disappeared.
I've said for several seasons that the biggest thing dragging Tim's game down is all the damned contact off the ball. Everyone figured out that they couldn't defend him in the low post, so they started wrestling, shoving, and grabbing to "deny him the ball". Since his knees really started getting bad (last season) they have focused a lot more of their effort on bulldozing him, to force him to take the ball farther from the basket. And when he passes the ball, they immediately give him a big shove from behind to force him even further out. When was the last time you saw Tim pass and re-post closer to the basket? Nothing is absolute, but it doesn't happen often.
I bitched about the officiating for several seasons, because I thought they let things get to the point of being ridiculous some nights. Not a conspiracy, but the general position of the league for the amount of contact they decided to tolerate off the ball. I don't think it's good for the game to allow 3-4x the amount of contact on one portion of the floor. But Tim's knees have become as much of a limiting factor as anything else. When you have to back up to someone and push, it's basically the same thing as doing a leg press. And Tim's knees just aren't up to doing that many leg presses per night, in between running up and down the floor.
Forcing him to take the ball farther from the basket is a big deal. It gives the help defenders more time to reach him when he does take it to the rack. (Which makes it less necessary to bring the hard double team, which means other players aren't as wide open as they used to be.) It changes the spacing on the floor, and the angles on his passes. (I think it's one of the big reasons teams have become more successful jumping our passing lanes and getting steals.) And when he does take the jumper off the glass, it is (on average, at least) a longer jumper than it used to be. Shooting percentage drops, the further a player is from the basket - unless you happen to be Bruce Bowen. But shooting from further out also reduces the likelihood of Tim getting his own rebound and a put-back.
The fact that he has lost lift is part of it. It's easier to guard a big if you don't have to worry about trying to meet him above the rim. And it's pretty obvious that a flat-footed shot is easier to block. But I still say that the biggest problem Tim has is that his knees don't let him handle the physical play off the ball as well anymore. It's not the battle in the low post, it's the battle to get to the low post.
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