Bogans Record Against Winning Teams

[ceperez]

Okay... look at the guy's stats against .500 or better teams:

Date Opponent Result MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Mar 24 vs. LAL L 83 - 92 17 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0
Mar 22 @ OKC W 99 - 96 7 0 - 2 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Mar 21 @ ATL L 114 - 119 25 2 - 5 1 - 4 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 5
Mar 17 @ ORL L 84 - 110 15 0 - 2 0 - 1 2 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 2 2
Mar 08 @ CLE L 95 - 97 22 0 - 2 0 - 2 0 - 0 1 3 4 2 0 1 1 1 0
Mar 06 @ MEM W 102 - 92 15 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Feb 28 vs. PHX W 113 - 110 11 0 - 3 0 - 2 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Feb 26 @ HOU L 104 - 109 14 0 - 3 0 - 3 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3 4 0
Feb 24 vs. OKC W 95 - 87 24 3 - 6 2 - 4 1 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 9
Feb 11 @ DEN W 111 - 92 22 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 3 4 1 0 0 1 5 0
Feb 08 @ LAL L 89 - 101 12 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Feb 04 @ POR L 93 - 96 17 0 - 3 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 0

Total of 12 games

9 games with zero points.
12 games of less than 3 assists. 6 games with zero assists.

[Chomag]

Centerpiece bro! thats all that matters.

Seriously though all rational fans see this but unfortunately the man that counts (POP) doesn't.

[DesignatedT]

we have played a lot more than 12 games against .500 or better teams.

[HarlemHeat37]

He shoots 33% from the field and 27% from 3s against playoff teams..I could excuse it if he played good D, but he doesn't..

[itzsoweezee]

at least bogans is a defense guy.

what's bonner's excuse?

[MannyIsGod]

Bonner plays better defense than Bogans and is much better at offense. Thats his excuse.

[MaNu4Tres]

I brought this to everyone's attention close to the deadline, as I was promoting an upgrade at wing behind RJ and Manu.

The "19" losses were all against .500+ teams

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145650

[tdunk21]

at least bogans is a defense guy.

what's bonner's excuse?

bogans is not even defending .....and bonner misses open 3pt shots which is so irritating...

[Chomag]

Bogans can be sitting in the stands and be just as productive as he is right now.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bogans and Mason can be sitting in the stands and be just as productive as he is right now.


Fixed.

[Chieflion]

at least bogans is a defense guy.

what's bonner's excuse?

Bonner plays better defense than Bogans. The myth that Bonner is a very bad defender needs to go to rest now.

[MannyIsGod]

Bonner plays better defense than Bogans. The myth that Bonner is a very bad defender needs to go to rest now.

Bonner isn't a great defender by any means, but people act as though he's below average and he's not. People just see the big white guy and assume. His positional defense is good.

Its his rebounding that sucks.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bonner plays better defense than Bogans. The myth that Bonner is a very bad defender needs to go to rest now.

Bonner is a good one on one post defender but it's his physical liabilities that hinders his overall effectiveness. Most notably on penetration from the perimeter of the opposition.

[FeZZy]

wow your just starting threads all over the place aren't you..

[Shastafarian]

Thanks to 82games.com we can compare our guys and their PER to the guys they guard.

There are 3 rotation players who don't have a positive PER vs. opponent PER at any position they play. One of those guys is close to even at his predominant position but the other two are not. Here they are:

Antonio McDyess (his PER/opponent PER)
C - 17.2/18.2 (difference = -0.9)
PF - 13.6/20.5 (difference = -6.9)

The Centerpiece
SG - 10.4/13.4 (-3)
SF - 7.8/14.3 (-6.5)
PF - 11.9/14.2 (-2.3)

Mason
PG - 8/10.8 (-2.8)
SG - 13.6/16.5 (-2.9)
SF - 5.5/16.4 (-10.9)

I'll be the first to admit PER isn't the best diagnostic stat. But it does reveal trends. Granted Mason has had reduced minutes which has a great effect on PER, but doesn't it say something that these three guys are the ONLY guys in the main rotation who leave the team in the red?

[Sean Cagney]

Centerpiece bro! thats all that matters.

Seriously though all rational fans see this but unfortunately the man that counts (POP) doesn't.

Pop is a fucking drunk idiot, period! I don't get his fascination with such garbage players, but he does it year after year since 07.

[Stringer_Bell]

Since when do stats on a piece of paper decide how good our centerpiece is? It's all about the intangibles and nobody knows intangibles other than Pop!

[Snaq O'Meal]

The Centerpiece
SG - 10.4/13.4 (-3)
SF - 7.8/14.3 (-6.5)
PF - 11.9/14.2 (-2.3)

This is interesting. If Poop insists on giving heavy minutes to his Centerpiece, then the best position for him to play is PF, since this produces the lowest PER deficit of only -2.3 among the three positions.

[Obstructed_View]

Since when do stats on a piece of paper decide how good our centerpiece is? It's all about the intangibles and nobody knows intangibles other than Pop!

It's what he does in practice when none of us are watching, and you just can't place too much value on that kind of production.

[Sean Cagney]

Since when do stats on a piece of paper decide how good our centerpiece is? It's all about the intangibles and nobody knows intangibles other than Pop!

Yeah we see what does on tv and break it down! We see he gets 0 points and misses assignments!!!! Dude is horrible man, lol at anyone sticking up for that bum when we all see clear as day he is horrible when on TV.


BTW I got your joke and was just playing here, but dude is a piece of shit and a nobody who would not get major mins on any contending team! Not like we are contending team or anything but.

[santymrc]

I hate Bogans.

[mingus]

what's amazing is that Bogans, at least every other game, fouls a guy in the act of shooting a three pointer. it's so fucking aggravating. i've NEVER seen someone foul so often three poit shooters.

[mingus]

seriously though the "defensive stopper" tag is a tag that's used too often by players who just suck and want to be known for something. Bogans is one of those guys.

[easy7]

Bogans... man can't shoot, guard or pass.

[Spurs7794]

Its sad, I liked Bogans at the beginning of the season when he played SPOT duty every now and then and gave us some toughness. Now that he is the centerpiece of our rotation, I have never hated a Spur more than him. I get aggravated every game when I see him get off the bench and head to the scorers table. Atleast Vaughn could run a team, Udoka could rebound and shoot slightly better than Bogans, Finley could always shoot, Van Exel could bring the ball up, Sean Marks was enthusiastic. WTF DOES BOGANS DO?!?!?!?!?!? Pop's handling of him has messed with the heads of 3 wings who are far and away better than him. Finley left, Mason's confidence is shattered because he was taken out of the rotation for this piece of garbage, and Hairston is going to have to wait an extra year to get experience because he's stuck watching the Centerpiece of Suck play game after game at an exceedingly incompetent level.

[Doug Collins]

u can't measure wat da centerpiece do, y'all krazy!

[nkdlunch]

Okay... look at the guy's stats against .500 or better teams:

Date Opponent Result MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Mar 24 vs. LAL L 83 - 92 17 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0
Mar 22 @ OKC W 99 - 96 7 0 - 2 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Mar 21 @ ATL L 114 - 119 25 2 - 5 1 - 4 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 5
Mar 17 @ ORL L 84 - 110 15 0 - 2 0 - 1 2 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 2 2
Mar 08 @ CLE L 95 - 97 22 0 - 2 0 - 2 0 - 0 1 3 4 2 0 1 1 1 0
Mar 06 @ MEM W 102 - 92 15 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Feb 28 vs. PHX W 113 - 110 11 0 - 3 0 - 2 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Feb 26 @ HOU L 104 - 109 14 0 - 3 0 - 3 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3 4 0
Feb 24 vs. OKC W 95 - 87 24 3 - 6 2 - 4 1 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 9
Feb 11 @ DEN W 111 - 92 22 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 3 4 1 0 0 1 5 0
Feb 08 @ LAL L 89 - 101 12 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Feb 04 @ POR L 93 - 96 17 0 - 3 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 0

Total of 12 games

9 games with zero points.
12 games of less than 3 assists. 6 games with zero assists.

what about RJs?

[DPG21920]

what about RJs?

Much better than Bogans

[nkdlunch]

Much better than Bogans

and about $10,000,000 more expensive.

[DPG21920]

and about $10,000,000 more expensive.

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.

[nkdlunch]

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.

touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts. :downspin:

[yavozerb]

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.


touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts. :downspin:

I thinks its a great point made by nkd..Why would the guy (bogans) who gets paid the NBA minimum be blamed more for losses than the guy (RJ) who gets paid 12+mil? Why would you not set a higher standard for the player who gets paid more (alot more)? just wondering

[DPG21920]

Has nothing to do with blaming and everything to do with comparing the numbers. His first statement was not " look at rjs salary and production". He simply tried to compare their numbers as if they were close. Then he resorted to the money argument.

[nkdlunch]

I thinks its a great point made by nkd..Why would the guy (bogans) who gets paid the NBA minimum be blamed more for losses than the guy (RJ) who gets paid 12+mil? Why would you not set a higher standard for the player who gets paid more (alot more)? just wondering

Exactly :tu

there is a Bogans thread after every game when there should be more RJ threads.

Let's look at the facts:
1) Bogans is a scrub and is being paid as a scrub
2) Bogans is not underachieving, he is actually meeting expectations, he is after all a scrub
3) if any blame for Bogans should be directed at Pop. Pop is the one giving this scrub minutes

not let's look at the RJ situation
1) RJ is the 2nd highest paid Spur (or close)
2) RJ's production is complete garbage and vs. the winning teams (which this thread is about) it's laughable
3) Pop is forced to play RJ because a) he is getting a ton of money and b) there is noone else
4) RJ is a $12 million fucking piece of garbage, he not only underachieves, he often is lost, not concentrated and does not take critizism well from teamates (Hill last game for example)

now, which situation is more angering????? :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[HarlemHeat37]

Everybody blames Jefferson all the time, are you serious?..

Jefferson is significantly overpaid, but he was once a good player and the Spurs are forced to play him and try to get him going for obvious reasons..he's obviously a flawed player, but he has talent..regardless, everybody shits on him all the time(for good reason), so I don't know how you can say that..

Bogans is a scrub that wouldn't make the rotation, maybe not even the entire roster, of any other team in the NBA..he got less minutes last year on a Milwaukee team that was ravaged by injuries and didn't come close to the playoffs..there's absolutely no reason he should be playing 1 MPG, let alone 20..the reason everybody mentions him all the time is because he's probably the worst player on the Spurs' roster and the coach of this team has went as far as calling him the fucking CENTERPIECE of the defense..shouldn't a Centerpiece have some expectations from the fans?..

[z0sa]

$10,000,000

IE Oberto, Bowen, Thomas

[Truckules]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

[z0sa]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

Yeah, it's not hard logic to understand.

[Warlord23]

At this point, teams facing the Spurs will gladly pay Bogans' salary for that game, if Pop guarantees to play him 20+ minutes.

Our only hope is that Bogans gets psychologically traumatized after getting faceraped by LeBron in the Cavs game and absconds for the rest of the season.

[nkdlunch]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

disagree 100%

and RJ doesn't hurt the team? :lol

that play where he ran AWAY from an open Kobe at the 3pt line late in the game didn't hurt us right?

[in2deep]

goddam! why did you have to remind me of that play :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss




that shit was the dumbest shit I have seen in a looooooooong time

[yavozerb]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

The reason the 800K player is hurting the team is because the 10+ mil player is not pulling his weight. If the 10+ mil player would perform up to his standards (which is why he gets paid 10+ mil) then you probably would not even notice the 800K guy. duh..:lol

[z0sa]

The reason the 800K player is hurting the team is because the 10+ mil player is not pulling his weight. If the 10+ mil player would perform up to his standards (which is why he gets paid 10+ mil) then you probably would not even notice the 800K guy. duh..:lol

I think you're missing the vitally important point that Bogans isn't even worth $800,000 or any playing time over any other player on the roster, whatsoever.

Instead of changing the subject to RJ's deal (who was traded for garbage/retirees, remember?) , focus on Bogans' complete lack of production, skill, or a deal. And the fact he replaced Bowen, who no one would be complaining about even if he had the same exact same production.

Dude sucks, doesn't deserve 1 minute; RJ deserves every minute based on talent alone.

[easy7]

disagree 100%

and RJ doesn't hurt the team? :lol

that play where he ran AWAY from an open Kobe at the 3pt line late in the game didn't hurt us right?

Not as much as letting a scrub bench Laker player score 3 in a row. Spurs lost by 9, not by 3.

[yavozerb]

I think you're missing the vitally important point that Bogans isn't even worth $800,000 or any playing time over any other player on the roster, whatsoever.

Instead of changing the subject to RJ's deal (who was traded for garbage/retirees, remember?) , focus on Bogans' complete lack of production, skill, or a deal. And the fact he replaced Bowen, who no one would be complaining about even if he had the same exact same production.

Dude sucks, doesn't deserve 1 minute; RJ deserves every minute based on talent alone.

I might be wrong but I thought this thread was started because bogans statline was so weak against the best teams in the NBA. All I was saying (since this was what the thread was started as) was to compare his statline with Rj's for those same games..I understand that Bogans is not the greatest option but to indicate that he is the primary reason for the losses in those games is dumb. Your best players(those with highest salaries) should play their best against the top teams, do you disagree with this?

[Shastafarian]

Here are Jefferson's numbers for those same games:


2/4 @Por L 96-93 34 3-8 .375 1-3 .333 1-2 .500 1 1 0 0 1 3 4 1 8
2/8 @Lal L 101-89 33 2-9 .222 0-1 .000 5-7 .714 0 0 0 4 0 2 2 2 9
2/11 @Den W 111-92 34 5-9 .556 2-4 .500 2-2 1.000 0 0 1 4 2 2 4 4 14
2/24 Okc W 95-87 32 3-9 .333 0-1 .000 3-5 .600 0 0 1 2 0 9 9 0 9
2/26 @Hou L 109-104 30 6-12 .500 0-2 .000 3-5 .600 1 2 2 1 1 6 7 2 15
2/28 Pho W 113-110 36 7-11 .636 2-3 .667 4-5 .800 0 1 1 2 2 2 4 5 20
3/6 @Mem W 102-92 35 7-11 .636 1-2 .500 3-3 1.000 1 1 0 1 0 6 6 1 18
3/8 @Cle L 97-95 28 1-3 .333 0-2 .000 1-2 .500 1 0 2 2 0 9 9 1 3
3/17 @Orl L 110-84 34 9-12 .750 0-1 .000 2-2 1.000 1 1 0 3 1 5 6 3 20
3/21 @Atl L 119-114 44 5-9 .556 0-1 .000 2-2 1.000 1 1 1 4 1 7 8 4 12
3/22 @Okc W 99-96 28 2-8 .250 0-2 .000 1-1 1.000 0 0 1 3 0 2 2 1 5
3/24 Lal L 92-83 28 3-9 .333 0-2 .000 0-1 .000 0 1 1 3 1 5 6 0 6

as compared to:


Mar 24 vs. LAL L 83 - 92 17 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0
Mar 22 @ OKC W 99 - 96 7 0 - 2 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Mar 21 @ ATL L 114 - 119 25 2 - 5 1 - 4 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 5
Mar 17 @ ORL L 84 - 110 15 0 - 2 0 - 1 2 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 2 2
Mar 08 @ CLE L 95 - 97 22 0 - 2 0 - 2 0 - 0 1 3 4 2 0 1 1 1 0
Mar 06 @ MEM W 102 - 92 15 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Feb 28 vs. PHX W 113 - 110 11 0 - 3 0 - 2 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Feb 26 @ HOU L 104 - 109 14 0 - 3 0 - 3 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3 4 0
Feb 24 vs. OKC W 95 - 87 24 3 - 6 2 - 4 1 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 9
Feb 11 @ DEN W 111 - 92 22 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 3 4 1 0 0 1 5 0
Feb 08 @ LAL L 89 - 101 12 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Feb 04 @ POR L 93 - 96 17 0 - 3 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 0

[Warlord23]

I might be wrong but I thought this thread was started because bogans statline was so weak against the best teams in the NBA. All I was saying (since this was what the thread was started as) was to compare his statline with Rj's for those same games..I understand that Bogans is not the greatest option but to indicate that he is the primary reason for the losses in those games is dumb. Your best players(those with highest salaries) should play their best against the top teams, do you disagree with this?

I think z0sa's point is that while RJ's contribution with respect to salary may be very small, it is still non-negative. Whereas Bogans is the opponent team's MVP on a nightly basis and is a net negative for the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts. :downspin:

Actually, Roger Mason, for all his struggles, has slightly better numbers than Bogans. Bogans has slightly better numbers than guys who don't play.

[in2deep]

Actually, Roger Mason, for all his struggles, has slightly better numbers than Bogans. Bogans has slightly better numbers than guys who don't play.

Everyone knows Bogans is not there for the numbers. Unfortunately Bogans eventhough his D sucks, is still arguably a better defender than any guard but Hill. :(

[beachwood]

Its sad, I liked Bogans at the beginning of the season when he played SPOT duty every now and then and gave us some toughness. Now that he is the centerpiece of our rotation, I have never hated a Spur more than him. I get aggravated every game when I see him get off the bench and head to the scorers table. Atleast Vaughn could run a team, Udoka could rebound and shoot slightly better than Bogans, Finley could always shoot, Van Exel could bring the ball up, Sean Marks was enthusiastic. WTF DOES BOGANS DO?!?!?!?!?!? Pop's handling of him has messed with the heads of 3 wings who are far and away better than him. Finley left, Mason's confidence is shattered because he was taken out of the rotation for this piece of garbage, and Hairston is going to have to wait an extra year to get experience because he's stuck watching the Centerpiece of Suck play game after game at an exceedingly incompetent level.

The Centerpiece of Suck. I couldn't have said it any better.

[jag]

Actually, Roger Mason, for all his struggles, has slightly better numbers than Bogans. Bogans has slightly better numbers than guys who don't play.

nkdlunch is borderline retarded.

We get it, he doesn't like RJ....

[nkdlunch]

We get it, he doesn't like RJ....

and you do? :lmao

all I'm saying is where is the outrage???? Dick is the main one who fucked our season up

[jag]

and you do? :lmao

all I'm saying is where is the outrage???? Dick is the main one who fucked our season up

I realize what we got him for...basically nothing. Sure he's expensive, but who else would give us a guy with RJ's potential for Oberto and Thomas??

He hasn't worked out, but it was the best possible move to make at the time. You're a monday morning quarterback who applies little to no logic to any of your arguments.

[lefty]

seriously though the "defensive stopper" tag is a tag that's used too often by players who just suck and want to be known for something. Bogans is one of those guys.
I agree

Kobe toyed with him the other night

Bogans is just too slow

[nkdlunch]

I realize what we got him for...basically nothing. Sure he's expensive, but who else would give us a guy with RJ's potential for Oberto and Thomas??

He hasn't worked out, but it was the best possible move to make at the time. You're a monday morning quarterback who applies little to no logic to any of your arguments.

oh this is great.

let's forget about RJ's shitty efforts, in-game mental fuckups and overall nonchalance because well, we did the best move possible at the time. :rolleyes

You're a simpleton who complains about being thisty knowing you have throat cancer.

[jag]

oh this is great.

let's forget about RJ's shitty efforts, in-game mental fuckups and overall nonchalance because well, we did the best move possible at the time. :rolleyes

You're a simpleton who complains about being thisty when you have throat cancer.

Cool story bro.

We get it. You don't like RJ. But even with his detractors, he's still better than Oberto and Thomas combined.

But go ahead and keep bringing quality takes like i'm used to seeing from you. You know, throat cancer takes and what not.

[nkdlunch]

Cool story bro.

We get it. You don't like RJ. But even with his detractors, he's still better than Oberto and Thomas combined.

But go ahead and keep bringing quality takes like i'm used to seeing from you. You know, throat cancer takes and what not.

funny cause I dont' recall any quality take from you either.

let's just agree to disagree :tu

but I will say it one last time. Where is the outrage???

[MaNu4Tres]

nkdlunch is borderline retarded.
....

[Ginobilly]

WTF does Pop see in Bogans??????!!!!????? Is he trying to mold him to be the next Mario Ellie??

[z0sa]

I think z0sa's point is that while RJ's contribution with respect to salary may be very small, it is still non-negative. Whereas Bogans is the opponent team's MVP on a nightly basis and is a net negative for the Spurs.

Exactly.

You can't defend Bogans using "he's a scrub" when he's played a very meaningful role this ENTIRE SEASON.

[Obstructed_View]

Everyone knows Bogans is not there for the numbers. Unfortunately Bogans eventhough his D sucks, is still arguably a better defender than any guard but Hill. :(

:lol

First of all, no he isn't. Second of all, Pop has him playing small forward most of the time. The only worse defender than Bogans for the Spurs is now playing in Boston.

[z0sa]

Richard Jefferson: $14,000,000, Games Started: 58/69
Keith Bogans: $800,000, Games Started: 49/68

[in2deep]

:lol

First of all, no he isn't. Second of all, Pop has him playing small forward most of the time. The only worse defender than Bogans for the Spurs is now playing in Boston.

disagree. Mason is garbage, TP too small, Manu is too weak and valuable, RJ is a pussy. that's about it :(

[TJastal]

Its sad, I liked Bogans at the beginning of the season when he played SPOT duty every now and then and gave us some toughness. Now that he is the centerpiece of our rotation, I have never hated a Spur more than him. I get aggravated every game when I see him get off the bench and head to the scorers table. Atleast Vaughn could run a team, Udoka could rebound and shoot slightly better than Bogans, Finley could always shoot, Van Exel could bring the ball up, Sean Marks was enthusiastic. WTF DOES BOGANS DO?!?!?!?!?!? Pop's handling of him has messed with the heads of 3 wings who are far and away better than him. Finley left, Mason's confidence is shattered because he was taken out of the rotation for this piece of garbage, and Hairston is going to have to wait an extra year to get experience because he's stuck watching the Centerpiece of Suck play game after game at an exceedingly incompetent level.

+1000

Couldn't have said it better myself, Spurs7794

[HarlemHeat37]

Again, RJ might suck, but the point is that the Spurs HAVE to play him either way..he was the blockbuster trade and they can't just NOT play him..he actually does have talent and he occasionally shows it..his role is also A LOT more difficult than Bogans' role, which is to try to defend and shoot wide open shots..

You can't just a bench a guy like that..also, like I said, EVERYBODY complains about Jefferson all the time, so you're acting like he isn't always one of the scapegoats by us fans..

Bogans has BY FAR the worst +/- on this team, the only guy that comes anywhere close is his relative from the family of mediocrity, Roger Mason..Centerpiece actually hurts this team, a lot..

Jefferson doesn't help the Spurs, but he doesn't hurt them either..it's pretty much even when he's in the game..

[yavozerb]

Record is getting better by the day..:flag:

[HarlemHeat37]

His FG% vs. playoff teams is now at 33.6% from the field, and his 3-point FG% is now at 28.4%..getting better..

[iminol]

Bogans is an all-star.

[Flux451]

I would rather have Bogans out there than Mason. At least Bogans is hitting threes.

[Bruno]

Bogans is a fine end of the bench player who knows his role.

I wouldn't be surprised or against Spurs resigning him this summer to a cheap contract

[TJastal]

Bogans is a fine end of the bench player who knows his role.

I wouldn't be surprised or against Spurs resigning him this summer to a cheap contract

As "fine" as he is, I'd still rather see more Hairston and less Bogans next season.

[TimDunkem]

I would rather have Bogans out there than Mason. At least Bogans is hitting threes.
I'm going to have to agree with you. Mason has sucked major ass this season.

[DPG21920]

Bogans is a fine end of the bench player who knows his role.

I wouldn't be surprised or against Spurs resigning him this summer to a cheap contract

How do you feel about him as a centerpiece though? He has not been used as an end of the bench role player.

[Bruno]

How do you feel about him as a centerpiece though? He has not been used as an end of the bench role player.

Neither has he been used as a centerpiece.

Bogans plays 20mpg this year for Spurs. When you consider injuries (Finley and Parker), quitters (Finley) and players in huge slump (Mason), it isn't that much.
With Parker back and Pop giving more mintues to main players, Bogans will likely play less than that for the playoffs.

At the end, I don't give a damn fuck about how Pop called Bogans, what matters is what happen on the court and Bogans doesn't play 35mpg.

[jjktkk]

As "fine" as he is, I'd still rather see more Hairston and less Bogans next season.

I can see that happening next season.

[DPG21920]

Should Bogans ever be starting?

[jjktkk]

Should Bogans ever be starting?

I wouldn't mind, provided he doesn't play major minutes, because that would put Ginoboli back on the bench. I like how Ginoboli provides that spark off the bench in his 6th man role.