Schizo Tea Party.

[MannyIsGod]

I find this rather amusing.


A new Bloomberg Poll finds that more than 90% of Tea Party backers say the United States "is verging more toward socialism than capitalism, the federal government is trying to control too many aspects of private life and more decisions should be made at the state level."

At the same time, 70% of those who sympathize with the Tea Party "want a federal government that fosters job creation."

Said pollster Ann Selzer: "The ideas that find nearly universal agreement among Tea Party supporters are rather vague. You would think any idea that involves more government action would be anathema, and that is just not the case."

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PoliticalWire/~3/APzvF8yt0OA/they_scorn_socialism_but_want_government_to_create _jobs.html

[Trainwreck2100]

the tea partyers think Palin is qualified to be President, till they get off that schnide nobody should take them seriously.

[MannyIsGod]

You have to take them seriously because they make up a sizable segment of the American voting bloc. Now, of course no Tea Party will win a major election (I'm sure they could steal a state seat here or there) but they can definitely have an affect on the conservative candidates.

[ElNono]

You have to take them seriously because they make up a sizable segment of the American voting bloc. Now, of course no Tea Party will win a major election (I'm sure they could steal a state seat here or there) but they can definitely have an affect on the conservative candidates.

Really? Do you actually have numbers?

[DarrinS]

A new Bloomberg Poll finds that more than 90% of Tea Party backers say the United States "is verging more toward socialism than capitalism, the federal government is trying to control too many aspects of private life and more decisions should be made at the state level."

At the same time, 70% of those who sympathize with the Tea Party "want a federal government that fosters job creation."





I see no contradiction in this. A large, regulatory federal government, that is all but hostile toward business is NOT one that "fosters job creation".

[DarrinS]

But, I'm glad that Manny is easily amused.

[Duff McCartney]

Where were these dumbasses when Bush was invading private lives and tapping phones with the Patriot Act? Slurping his cock that's where. It's ridiculous, other than the health care bill, the Obama administration has done absolutely jack shit in regards to peoples private lives.

No anti-gay marriage none of that shit.

[DarrinS]

Where was I when Bush was invading private lives and tapping phones with the Patriot Act? Slurping his cock that's where.


fify

[Duff McCartney]

That doesn't even make sense.

[Wild Cobra]

I see no contradiction in this. A large, regulatory federal government, that is all but hostile toward business is NOT one that "fosters job creation".
Neither do I.


A new Bloomberg Poll finds that more than 90% of Tea Party backers say the United States "is verging more toward socialism than capitalism, the federal government is trying to control too many aspects of private life and more decisions should be made at the state level."
Those who participate in the Tea Party functions want government to stop controlling our lives.

At the same time, 70% of those who sympathize with the Tea Party "want a federal government that fosters job creation."
That is perfectly in line with "promote the general welfare."

[Nbadan]

You have to take them seriously because they make up a sizable segment of the American voting bloc. Now, of course no Tea Party will win a major election (I'm sure they could steal a state seat here or there) but they can definitely have an affect on the conservative candidates.

Most of them are Republican anyway, so it's not really a threat to democrats that it is to incumbent Republicans like McCain in Neveda...

[DJ Mbenga]

the best quote that sums up those numbers are " Keep your Goddamn Government hands off my medicare!". contradictions all around.

[doobs]

So now it's contradictory for people to believe that a smaller federal government would be better at fostering job creation?

Uh, no.

[Winehole23]

If the current Two Santa Claus pattern holds, it actually is contradictory. The current party of "smaller government" is a dedicated Two Santa Claus user. (Witness, the GOP demagoging an end to certain Medicare overpayments as *cuts*.)

[MannyIsGod]

They don't want smaller government. They want a government that enforces what they want and only what they want. I think its fucking those of you trying to play this off as anything else. Then again look who I'm talking about. The next insightful post form Darrin will be the first.

[MannyIsGod]

If the current Two Santa Claus pattern holds, it actually is contradictory. The current party of "smaller government" is a dedicated Two Santa Claus user. (Witness, the GOP demagoging an end to certain Medicare overpayments as *cuts*.)

Exactly.

[Winehole23]

Tea Party is still partly its own thing, tho I suspect (very many) of them are Republican voters at heart.

[MannyIsGod]

They're disillusioned republican voters at heart. While they may claim to be disillusioned because this country is headed toward socialism (HAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH) I think it has more to do with other factors not the least of which is there isn't one of their good ole boys in the big office right now.

Really, I think they're going to do far more harm to the GOP than any good. Remember Clinton was only elected because of Ross Perot. (And for that matter Bush was probably only elected because of Ralph Nader)

[Winehole23]

Still, I hope they vote for somebody beside the (R)s and (D)s. For once in their lives to vote for their actual beliefs, rather than just voting for power and pelf (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pelf).

[MannyIsGod]

I'm glad you linked it because I had no fucking clue what that was.

In any event the core of the tea party's beliefs isn't smaller government so be careful what you wish for. Where a tea party candidate runs they'll just siphon votes off of a GOP candidate. Makes me happy.

[Duff McCartney]

I'm glad you linked it because I had no fucking clue what that was.

In any event the core of the tea party's beliefs isn't smaller government so be careful what you wish for. Where a tea party candidate runs they'll just siphon votes off of a GOP candidate. Makes me happy.

Both parties, in fact every party wants a big government. They just want it in different ways. Democrats want regulation in business and general welfare, Republicans want huge tax cuts and a larger department of defense.

[boutons_deux]

"large, regulatory federal government, that is all but hostile toward business"

You Lie

The federal govt is captured by corporate and capitalist interests.

The water, the land, the air is polluted by corporations, and jobs are destroyed by corporations, the financial system fucks over Americans and the planet, and You Lie the St Ronnie The Sicko Lie that the federal govt is THE PROBLEM

[doobs]

WH, that's not the point. For those tea partiers who want tax cuts from the GOP Santa but none of the spending cuts, sure. But that's not what the OP said.

Again, how is it contradictory? It's only contradictory if you make assumptions. About the people ("they ALL want you to keep the government's hands off their Medicare, lol!") or the policies advocated ("fostering job creation necessarily means an active federal government guiding economic decisionmaking, so they MUST be confused or hypocritical!").

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think the actual number of tea party sympathizers amongst the voting people is seriously exaggerated.

[Winehole23]

It's very au courant for pissed off Republicans to say they're libertarian, or constitutionalist or whatever; but in 2012 the thing to do will be voting for big government Republicans, on pain of excommunication from the movement, because the opposition is worse.

[Winehole23]

WH, that's not the point. For those tea partiers who want tax cuts from the GOP Santa but none of the spending cuts, sure. But that's not what the OP said.I said the Tea Party is quasi-autonomous. What more do you want?


Again, how is it contradictory? It's only contradictory if you make assumptions. About the people ("they ALL want you to keep the government's hands off their Medicare, lol!") or the policies advocated ("fostering job creation necessarily means an active federal government guiding economic decisionmaking, so they MUST be confused or hypocritical!") I think it's reasonable to posit some confusion, hypocrisy and dissembling. Tea partiers are human too. And I doubt it's any big mistake to consider them tendential Republicans. After making a brave show of political independence -- it's fun, right? -- most of them will come back to the reservation.

[AFE7FATMAN]

But, I'm glad that Manny is easily amused.

My Dog is easily amused:rollin

[SnakeBoy]

Still, I hope they vote for somebody beside the (R)s and (D)s. For once in their lives to vote for their actual beliefs, rather than just voting for power and pelf (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pelf).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TBoZN9XKTPw/SWqDbcshPJI/AAAAAAAAAmM/iGLg7ICTSqM/s400/whigflyer1.png

[Winehole23]

Nice, SnakeBoy. :tu

[Winehole23]

Established in 1833, the Whigs are one of America's oldest mainstream political parties. We were the original party of Abraham Lincoln and four other U.S. Presidents.

Revived by Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, the grassroots movement has quickly[?] new members . We represent the moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Republican or Democratic ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy. This Washington DC-based national movement values common sense, rational solutions ahead of ideology and partisan bickering.


This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and educational/scientific advancement.Hmm...

[Winehole23]

A national chair was selected to lead the Modern Whig Party. National Chairman Mike Lebowitz became the first national chair of the Modern Whig Party. Mike Lebowitz is a Washington, D.C. attorney and advocate for veterans' issues. He served in Iraq as an elite paratrooper in the Pathfinder Company of the 101st Airborne Division in the United States Army. He also testified at the United States House and Senate hearings on May 14, 2008 about improving military whistle-blower legislation.

[Winehole23]

On November 2, 2009, the Modern Whig Party ran its first authentic electoral test. Gene L. Baldassari of New Jersey sought a seat in the New Jersey Assembly, representing its Fourteenth District. Mr. Baldassari was defeated in the New Jersey general election.He lost.

[Winehole23]

On December 12-13, 2009, the Modern Whig Party held the first national leadership council meeting in Washington DC.

[Winehole23]

These guys need an editor, stat.

[Winehole23]

The term Whig and the Whiggery philosophy went into a great hibernation throughout the twentieth century in the United States of America. :lol

[Winehole23]

http://www.modernwhig.org/page2/page12/page12.html

[Winehole23]

A few years after America was established, Whiggery went into hibernation, but in Europe, it helped influence the French Revolution.Motif?

[SnakeBoy]

:lol

It's always fun to look at 3rd party websites.

[Winehole23]

http://www.modernwhig.org/Images/hisImg01.jpg
The name ‘Whig’ was first derived in Scotland. It was used to describe the Scottish that fought against the British crown in a raid called the Whiggamore Raid during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639-1651). These Whigs were a group of people from western Scotland who opposed King Charles I of England in 1648. It was also used to refer to a radical faction of the Scottish Covenanters who called themselves the Kirk Party.




http://www.modernwhig.org/Images/hisImg02.jpg In the late 1600s, the British Whigs were born in opposition of the succession of the Catholic King James II to the throne. From this opposition, Whiggery, as it is referred to, was born. Whiggery was a philosophy that began as a distinctly oppositional and populist ideology in which it saw political authority stemming from the people. This philosophy was an idea that the people believed that there was a contract existing between them and their King and if their King overrode their interest they might resist. These Whig principles (Whiggism) were hugely responsible for the Glorious Revolution of 1688, which is referred as the Bloodless Revolution in Great Britain. This war assured a Protestant secession and the constitutional supremacy of the Parliament over the king.


Whiggery was brought to the British colonies in the New World a few years after the Glorious Revolution. The Whiggery philosophy and writings brought about ideas that the colonists had the right to be represented in the British Parliament and that they had the same rights as a citizen in England.I'm not sure why, but this cracks me up.

http://www.modernwhig.org/page2/page10/page10.html

[Winehole23]

I'm more of a whiggism user myself.

[Duff McCartney]

Not to be confused with wigger.

[SnakeBoy]

Here you go WineHole...

y0X1LZf6e8U

Their membership has grown to 10K, their next goal is 20K. Makes sense, a very sensible moderate goal from the moderate party.

[Winehole23]

I'm charmed by the earnest attempt to package Whiggism as a mainstream political taste, but repelled by the selling point: non-partisan cherry-pickism.

[Winehole23]

From there, it's easy to see a worst of both worlds compromise.

[EVAY]

I actually found myself fascinated by the history,etc. in the write-ups.

But, WH, your are more than right about one thing...these guys are DESPERATELY in need of a writer and...a different name.

[EVAY]

I mean, god love 'em, they have to give a history lesson just to explain their name.

I don't see many Americans sitting still for such a concept.

Or voting for a 'whig'.

[Winehole23]

I had been considering organizing something more along the lines of fraternal drinking club, with a Whiggish theme. The main problem is identifying candidates with any established interest in Whiggism, but savvy marketing could easily clear that hurdle.

In principle, recovering Discordians, random freaks and "independent thinkers" of many stripes might actually buy the go-karts, the tawdry fezzes, the bumper-stickers, the t-shirts and coffee mugs for the mere pleasure of having them if they are attractive, funny and well designed.

Even more, I hope, will stay for the beer, the strong drink and the loud, whiggish fellowship.

[Ignignokt]

I had been considering organizing something more along the lines of fraternal drinking club, with a Whiggish theme. The main problem is identifying candidates with any established interest in Whiggism, but savvy marketing could easily clear that hurdle.

In principle, recovering Discordians, random freaks and "independent thinkers" of many stripes might actually buy the go-karts, the tawdry fezzes, the bumper-stickers, the t-shirts and coffee mugs for the mere pleasure of having them if they are attractive, funny and well designed.

Even more, I hope, will stay for the beer, the strong drink and the loud, whiggish fellowship.

dude, you're so above the fray.

[Winehole23]

dude, you barely make any sense.

[Winehole23]

I basically just described the Elks, minus the compulsory veneration of the US armed services.

[Ignignokt]

dude, you barely make any sense.

dude, you barely engage in meaningful discussion.

atleast i don't pretend to elevate the dialogue here, forum nanny.

[Winehole23]

What are you talking about?

[Winehole23]

Anybody can say whatever they want.

[Ignignokt]

Anybody can say whatever they want.

:toast

I'm glad you turned over a new leaf.

[Winehole23]

Nothing new about it; I always thought so.

[Winehole23]

Maybe it is your own viewpoint that is too rigid and unyielding.

[EVAY]

I don't think that WH needs any help from anyone on any topic, but since I don't know what bug up Igni's butt , I just have to say that I look forward to reading the occasionally 'different' posts by WH. They are occasionally whimsical (as this last one), occasionally weirder than not, but mostly in good humor, and that is somehting we could use more of around here.

I am usually flabbergasted at watching some of the cognitive links he makes, but that's because I'm such a linear thinker I have virtually no imagination. I enjoy seeing someone else share their's.

[SnakeBoy]

Even more, I hope, will stay for the beer

Domestic?

[Winehole23]

Domestic?:lol

Should be encouraged, as there is a veritable ocean of worthy domestic beer. I never foresaw any rule on this point, let alone a firm one.

[spursncowboys]

the best quote that sums up those numbers are " Keep your Goddamn Government hands off my medicare!". contradictions all around.

spin from the liberal machine. No one has ever said where that came from or found a youtube video. This just screams of astroturf.

[spursncowboys]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TBoZN9XKTPw/SWqDbcshPJI/AAAAAAAAAmM/iGLg7ICTSqM/s400/whigflyer1.png

So you're a whigger huh?

[spursncowboys]

Not to be confused with wigger.

woops. Joke was already made.

[Wild Cobra]

I think the actual number of tea party sympathizers amongst the voting people is seriously exaggerated.
I don't think so. There are so many of them that I find. Most of them won't talk politics with liberals, but wow... I get an earful from so many people I never thought would agree with the "Tea Party." Most just agree, and some participate.

[SnakeBoy]

I don't think so. There are so many of them that I find. Most of them won't talk politics with liberals, but wow... I get an earful from so many people I never thought would agree with the "Tea Party." Most just agree, and some participate.

That's interesting becase you're in Oregon aren't you?

I hear negative Obama comments every where I go. My wife has told me that Her patients are constantly bitching about Obama, some to the point that she has had to tell them to calm down so they can get accurate blood pressure. Of course I try to keep in mind that I'm in Texas so that doesn't neccessarily reflect the mood of americans.

[Wild Cobra]

That's interesting becase you're in Oregon aren't you?

I hear negative Obama comments every where I go. My wife has told me that Her patients are constantly bitching about Obama, some to the point that she has had to tell them to calm down so they can get accurate blood pressure. Of course I try to keep in mind that I'm in Texas so that doesn't neccessarily reflect the mood of americans.
My experience has taught me that liberals are very vocal about their beliefs publicly, and conservatives stay quiets, as not to be targeted by the radicals. That at least applies here where liberal ideas ore more prominent.

[EVAY]

My experience has taught me that liberals are very vocal about their beliefs publicly, and conservatives stay quiets, at not to be targeted by the radicals. That at least applies here where liberal ideas ore more prominent.

WC, I guarantee that is not the case in Texas...at least not in South Texas.
I have to tell people repeatedly down here that I prefer my home to be a 'politics-free zone' because mere aquaintaces assume that I think like them and want to rail or rant with them. They do it at meetings, at casual lunches, at grocery store checkout lines, etc., etc., etc.

I consider myself a moderate or libertarian on social issues (perhaps laissex-faire is more like it on social issues), a foreign policy moderate, and a fiscal conservative (much more conservative than most republicans I know.)

People down here treat me as though I am wild-eyed idiot socialist, however, because I do not, will not, tolerate right-wing ranting in my home, and will not participate in it in public.

Down here, you're either a Palin Republican or you're an imbecile.

If people know where I live they assume they know how I think, and assume they know that I will agree with every knee-jerk reaction that they have.

I find it ill-mannered and rude.

[Ignignokt]

WC, I guarantee that is not the case in Texas...at least not in South Texas.
I have to tell people repeatedly down here that I prefer my home to be a 'politics-free zone' because mere aquaintaces assume that I think like them and want to rail or rant with them. They do it at meetings, at casual lunches, at grocery store checkout lines, etc., etc., etc.

I consider myself a moderate or libertarian on social issues (perhaps laissex-faire is more like it on social issues), a foreign policy moderate, and a fiscal conservative (much more conservative than most republicans I know.)

People down here treat me as though I am wild-eyed idiot socialist, however, because I do not, will not, tolerate right-wing ranting in my home, and will not participate in it in public.

Down here, you're either a Palin Republican or you're an imbecile.

If people know where I live they assume they know how I think, and assume they know that I will agree with every knee-jerk reaction that they have.

I find it ill-mannered and rude.


You're a fiscal conservative?

prove it.

[EVAY]

You're a fiscal conservative?

prove it.

Easy. I owe not one red cent to any person or entity in the world.

I paid my own way through two undergraduate and three graduate degrees.

I pay my taxes and more, because I don't even accept SS payments, even though I am eligible for them and paid in at the highest level possible for the last 20 years of my working life.

And, I vote for those of either party who work on a "pay as you go basis".

Most republicans I know vote republican regardless of the fact that their candidates start wars without paying for them, and start social programs without paying for them (medicare D).

[EVAY]

Oh, and Igni...thanks for asking.

[Winehole23]

Down here, you're either a Palin Republican or you're an imbecile.I'm an imbecile. You're a rather obvious one too, EVAY.


If people know where I live they assume they know how I think, and assume they know that I will agree with every knee-jerk reaction that they have.

I find it ill-mannered and rude.It is.

Over time, you might find something to like about it: that people are generally easygoing and confiding, for example.

[LnGrrrR]

Still, I hope they vote for somebody beside the (R)s and (D)s. For once in their lives to vote for their actual beliefs, rather than just voting for power and pelf (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pelf).

I doubt their "strongly held" beliefs are actually that. Sure, the posters on this forum may have taken the time to do their research. But I think the majority of tea partiers believe that the US is sliding towards socialism because someone told them that. I doubt half could even give an adequate definition of how socialism works.

[Winehole23]

I doubt their "strongly held" beliefs are actually that.Sure. I basically agree with you.


But I think the majority of tea partiers believe that the US is sliding towards socialism because someone told them that. I doubt half could even give an adequate definition of how socialism works.


You're soaking in it, Madge!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dzmTtusvjR4/0.jpg