Gregg Popovich sees ‘world’ differently

[duncan228]

Gregg Popovich sees ‘world’ differently (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1243094&srvc=next_article)
By Steve Bulpett
Boston Herald

The Celtics have 17 banners hanging from the Garden ceiling declaring the club’s world champions in the various years.

Gregg Popovich would beg to differ.

The Spurs coach isn’t disputing any of Bill Russell’s titles, and he isn’t saying the Lakers actually beat the Celts in 2008. But he is a bit perturbed by the use of the word “world.”

“There are no world champions in the NBA, so anybody that has the flag up that says world champions is not correct,” said Popovich prior to last night’s 94-73 Spurs win. “It’s not appropriate.

“The world champions, I believe, are the Spanish team right now. USA is the Olympic champion. The Lakers are the NBA champion. It doesn’t make sense for an NBA team to call themselves world champions. I don’t remember anybody playing anybody outside our borders to get that tag. Isn’t that true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.”

When someone mentioned Toronto, Pop said, “There’s a team in Canada. That’s true. The world’s bigger than North America. I know sometimes we as arrogant Americans don’t respond to the rest of the world, but it’s true. There’s a big world out there.”

According to Celtics co-owner Steve Pagliuca, the club simply ordered a banner to match the other 16 when the C’s won the NBA title two years ago.

Former Celtics general manager Jan Volk, who was with the team for the five titles previous, said yesterday that the designation stemmed from the league.

The practice began when basketball was not well developed beyond this continent.

“Over the years, there were some good players from other countries, but nothing suggested that there were any teams that could compete with the best in the NBA,” said Volk. “I don’t think we ever considered at that time that it would be inappropriate to refer to our champion as world champions.”

Popovich took note of that rationale and pointed out the practice is still in effect.

“There have been several championships in the modern era, and people still call themselves world champions,” Popovich said.

Beneath the Celtics name on their banners is NBA in smaller lettering, followed by the year and “WORLD CHAMPIONS.” The Spurs refer to themselves as NBA champions.

“I’m not trying to be an (expletive),” said Popovich. “Why can’t we just be NBA champions? That’s what we are. We’re NBA champions. That’s not good enough? I think that’s pretty cool. I think that’s pretty good to be an NBA champion. That’s hard to do.”

*********************

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp/banner4-1.jpg

[Refocus]

Good read. :tu

[DesignatedT]

hmmm.. well he's right. World Champions isn't accurate...

[#2!]

WTF prompted this? pretty classic though

[Mel_13]

“I’m not trying to be an (expletive),” said Popovich.

Many here would say that Pop needs to make no effort in that regard.

[Galileo]

Popp the Party Pooper.

[crc21209]

Technically speaking, Pop is right...

[SenorSpur]

While Pop is essentially correct, his crusade about this comes off as something similar to Phil Jackson's antics.

There was a time that Pop would rarely, if ever, stick his nose into other team's affairs, but the last couple of years, he's done this more and more. From the commentary on the Pau Gasol trade to this.

[crc21209]

While Pop is essentially correct, his crusade about this comes off as something similar to Phil Jackson's antics.

There was a time that Pop would rarely, if ever, stick his nose into other team's affairs, but the last couple of years, he's done this more and more. From the commentary on the Pau Gasol trade to this.

It's all that wine...:lol

[Cane]

He must really hate the term "World Series".

Gotta agree with Pop though.

[Sisk]

of course he's correct

[Fernando TD21]

Didn't Pop say this before?

[Spursfanfromafar]

Pop is a no nonsense guy. It is insulting to the other tournaments in the world to be considered inferior in themselves. The Spanish are the World Champs, the Americans are Olympic Champs and the Lakers are NBA Champs. Why mix these up?

[alchemist]

While Pop is essentially correct, his crusade about this comes off as something similar to Phil Jackson's antics.

There was a time that Pop would rarely, if ever, stick his nose into other team's affairs, but the last couple of years, he's done this more and more. From the commentary on the Pau Gasol trade to this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1791061 (I guess this was the reason Artest was out of the option :lol)

Popovich >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

:flag:

[duncan228]

Didn't Pop say this before?

He has, and the Spurs Banners say 'NBA' Champions. Don't know why it came up tonight, maybe someone mentioned all the Celtics Banners.

[EricB]

Yeah pop you've stated before how shitty our country is. Please keep reminding us.

[whottt]

Hmmm...technically Pop is right but technically he's also wrong. Because technically, the NBA is the best league in the wolrd, with the world's best players in it.

That said, Pop takes the arrogant ugly American thing seriously. Amd tries to be respectful like that. I can understand why he does it.

But the hilarious thing is at the begnning of Parker's career he didn't think Parker could pull off being an NBA PG because he was a soft European.


Anyway, officially, the FIBA champions are the world champions.

[celldweller]

Just shut up and stop playing Bogans and Mason so much!

[SenorSpur]

Hmmm...technically Pop is right but technically he's also wrong. Because technically, the NBA is the best league in the wolrd, with the world's best players in it.

That said, Pop takes the arrogant ugly American thing seriously. Amd tries to be respectful like that. I can understand why he does it.

But the hilarious thing is at the begnning of Parker's career he didn't think Parker could pull off being an NBA PG because he was a soft European.


Anyway, officially, the FIBA champions are the world champions.

...but I thought it was Duncan, who made the declaration that "FIBA sucks" a few years ago.

[EricB]

...but I thought it was Duncan, who made the declaration that "FIBA sucks" a few years ago.


It was. And?

[whottt]

Well whether it sucks or not, it's called the world championships and the US agreed to call their champion that.

Pop isn't saying the World Champ is the best team...he just saying the NBA championship doesn't fit the criteria for being World Champ...Makes sense because the teams should be representatives of countries to be the world champions....not cities that usually do not have a single player actually from the city on the roster.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

World Champions=best team in the best league in the world. Wtf is so hard about that?

Can't agree with Pop on this one. The fucking lakers are the world champions right now.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah pop you've stated before how shitty our country is. Please keep reminding us.

Reactionary jingoist much?

Link?

[polandprzem]

He has, and the Spurs Banners say 'NBA' Champions. Don't know why it came up tonight, maybe someone mentioned all the Celtics Banners.

Spurs acually changed the banners from the world to the nba champions


As to me the comment is funny.
I wonder how Pop reacts when somebody will tell him that NBA stands for NATIONAL Basketball Association

[duncan228]

Spurs acually changed the banners from the world to the nba champions

When they got the 2005 one, right? They changed the first two, or was it before that?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

When they got the 2005 one, right? They changed the first two, or was it before that?

Pretty sure it was the '05 one. Then they went back and changed the other two. This shit only started after Argentina won gold in '04.

[mingus]

with as good as European ball has been in the last decade or so and how much it's progressed, he's got a point. you can't just assume anymore that the NBA Champions are World champions. It's highly likely that they would beat any European team, though. technically, speaking he's right. i personally prefer NBA champions in this day and age now, but i think it's much ado about nothing. probably the hournalist asked Pop about it. i seriously doubt Pop just mentioned it out of nowhere just to be contrary.

[mingus]

i do think that back when Russell won all his rings and the US had the one and only real competitive league, the "World Champions" title is correct. so i disagree w/ pop on that.

[DMX7]

World Champions=best team in the best league in the world. Wtf is so hard about that?

Can't agree with Pop on this one. The fucking lakers are the world champions right now.

exactly.

[Buddy Holly]

Yeah pop you've stated before how shitty our country is. Please keep reminding us.

WTF?

Do you have a sign on your back spelling out that you're one of those conservatives?

The one's that take any slight to the US no matter how little as some major "shitty on our heads" put down.

[jmard5]

I think Ginobili pointed that out when Argentina won the world championships?

[Calavera]

Pop is right. Americans have some kind of "world" fetish, that`s why the rest of the world likes to make fun of them. If you are so ignorant to call your national tournament "World series" you deserve it. :)

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Pop is right. Americans have some kind of "world" fetish, that`s why the rest of the world likes to make fun of them. If you are so ignorant to call your national tournament "World series" you deserve it. :)

Ignorance is acting like we can't call our champions what we choose when we invented the goddamn game in the first place. :ihit

[Bukefal]

“There are no world champions in the NBA, so anybody that has the flag up that says world champions is not correct,” said Popovich prior to last night’s 94-73 Spurs win. “It’s not appropriate.

“The world champions, I believe, are the Spanish team right now. USA is the Olympic champion. The Lakers are the NBA champion. It doesn’t make sense for an NBA team to call themselves world champions. I don’t remember anybody playing anybody outside our borders to get that tag. Isn’t that true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.”

When someone mentioned Toronto, Pop said, “There’s a team in Canada. That’s true. The world’s bigger than North America. I know sometimes we as arrogant Americans don’t respond to the rest of the world, but it’s true. There’s a big world out there.”


:tu Props for this Mr. Popovic!

[all_heart]

It seems Olympic champs is more "world" than the Spanish champs. Isn't that just the Euroleague? Olympic teams compete from all over the world..

[polandprzem]

it seems olympic champs is more "world" than the spanish champs. Isn't that just the euroleague? Olympic teams compete from all over the world..

:D



tadam

[Brazil]

Ignorance is acting like we can't call our champions what we choose when we invented the goddamn game in the first place. :ihit

stupid post.

Pop is right, it shouldn't be a debate.

[WalterBenitez]

Hmmmm,

For this time only, I'd say I am completely agree with POP :king
(There's no World Champion in NBA and US' citizens are arrogant :D )

Well, I also remember him saying ARG's wine is one of the top's wine in the world, so POP could be called an smart guy. :drunk

[WalterBenitez]

It seems Olympic champs is more "world" than the Spanish champs. Isn't that just the Euroleague? Olympic teams compete from all over the world..

:wow not sure what to say, Euroleague isn't the FIBA's World Cup, POP is mentioning FIBA's World Cup and Spanish is the Champion for a competition where almost 150 countries participate (OK, only 24 goes to FWC).

[urunobili]

I am with :pop: on this one...

Shame...

[bigfan]

This is another example of CIA Pop needling the opposition. Looks like it worked.

[disciple]

Spurs acually changed the banners from the world to the nba champions


As to me the comment is funny.
I wonder how Pop reacts when somebody will tell him that NBA stands for NATIONAL Basketball Association


It is "National" Basketball League, not International Basketball League. So Pop is right.

[smeagol]

Yeah pop you've stated before how shitty our country is. Please keep reminding us.

How the fuck do you conclude this from Pop's comments?

[Mel_13]

World Champions=best team in the best league in the world. Wtf is so hard about that?

Can't agree with Pop on this one. The fucking lakers are the world champions right now.

No basketball fan outside of the United States would agree with this.

[smeagol]

Ignorance is acting like we can't call our champions what we choose when we invented the goddamn game in the first place. :ihit

Wasn't Naismith Canadian . . . ?

[smeagol]

with as good as European ball has been in the last decade or so and how much it's progressed, he's got a point. you can't just assume anymore that the NBA Champions are World champions. It's highly likely that they would beat any European team, though. technically, speaking he's right. i personally prefer NBA champions in this day and age now, but i think it's much ado about nothing. probably the hournalist asked Pop about it. i seriously doubt Pop just mentioned it out of nowhere just to be contrary.

This issue has nothing to do with the fact the NBA champions are better than the WC champions or the Olympic champions. It has to do with the fact the NBA is not a world tournament. Countries don't compete against each other. If the US competed with their NBA stars every four years in the WC, then they would prabably be the perennial World Champions (the US NT, that is, not an NBA team).

In order for an NBA team to be named "World Champs" they woulkd have to play against the champions of the other leagues (Europe, South AMerica, Asia, etc).

[GSH]

Okay... technically, Pop is right. But if you have to throw in the word "technically", there is a little more to the story.

FIBA has done everything they can to take over the game, and to declare themselves the world's "official" authority on basketball. The U.S. fields a team, but it's never the best team possible, by any means. The games are played under the ****ed-up FIBA rules, and presided over by the equally-****ed-up FIBA referees. Bottom line, it's a totally different game than what is played in the NBA. And many, if not most of the U.S. players treat the "World's" as exhibition games.

By Pop's logic, Tiger Woods isn't the best golfer in the world, because he has always played poorly in the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup was an exhibition match that the international players decided to take deadly serious. It's played by a different set of rules. The American fans are interested, but not rabid about it. And the American players aren't compensated, like they are for playing "real" golf. Winning or losing the Ryder Cup doesn't prove shit, and Tiger would rather spend an afternoon filming a commercial, and the rest of the weekend with a porn star.

For most NBA players, FIBA ball is exactly like the Ryder Cup. It's an honor to be chosen, and an interesting change of pace every couple of years. But hardly the end-all competition by which they define themselves or their careers.

Regardless of what Pop says, the Spaniards can't be the World Champions (in any meaningful sense, at least) until the drag themselves over here and play the NBA's best, under NBA rules and NBA refs - after playing an 82-game season. I'm not suggesting that FIBA teams don't have some very good players. Of course they do. But the depth of talent doesn't even approach the NBA. And their rules, and ridiculously short season simply do not provide the same kind of test as winning an NBA championship.

I'd like to see if Pop could look someone in the eyes and suggest that the Spanish team could actually play a bruising 82-game season, and then defeat the best that the NBA has to offer. I think he might dodge the question, or just be an ****, as he is prone to do in interviews. But I don't think he could answer "Yes" to that question and keep a straight face. And, until he can, his other comments will have to be "technically" correct. Which is to say - meaningless. It's like saying the Superbowl champions are not the World Champions of football, because "techincally" that name belongs to the winner of the World Cup. It's a different game.

[ForeignFan]

of course Pop is right - bloody arrogant americans!

PS: and I know what arrogant means, since I am French ;)

[polandprzem]

It is "National" Basketball League, not International Basketball League. So Pop is right.

You got team from Canada and players from all over the world

[anakha]

Yeah pop you've stated before how shitty our country is. Please keep reminding us.


Reactionary jingoist much?


Nice to see Tpark defending his homeland in the same way he defends the Spurs. :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Wasn't Naismith Canadian . . . ?

ouch...

[MI21]

I have no doubt that the champion NBA team would beat any team in the world, even international teams. (theoretically of course, if LA played Spain in my little hypothetical, Pau would play for both teams)

So basically, NBA Champion = Best team in the world, but you can't actually crown them world champions. I've always thought it sounded really awkward when Stern says it too, like he knows it isn't quite right.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

No basketball fan outside of the United States would agree with this.

Then why are kids overseas getting up at 2 and 3 AM to watch NBA games? Ask most international players who they idolized growing up, and the answer will probably be an NBA player.

[smeagol]

Then why are kids overseas getting up at 2 and 3 AM to watch NBA games? Ask most international players who they idolized growing up, and the answer will probably be an NBA player.

So?

The Spanish soccer league is arguably the best league in the World but you don't see Barcelona being crowned soccer champion of the World . . .

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Wasn't Naismith Canadian . . . ?

Yes, and a naturalized American. He invented the game on American soil. The first players were Americans. It's widely accepted that basketball is an American game.

Oh, and GSH's post ftw.

[polandprzem]

So?

The Spanish soccer league is arguably the best league in the World but you don't see Barcelona being crowned soccer champion of the World . . .


SMEAGOL !!!

































You got a point :)

[in2deep]

so Pop must agree using the word America is also wrong and ignorant. It should be USA.

[sonic21]

So?

The Spanish soccer league is arguably the best league in the World but you don't see Barcelona being crowned soccer champion of the World . . .

they did win the club WC, so in a way they are crowned soccer champion of the world

[Mel_13]

Then why are kids overseas getting up at 2 and 3 AM to watch NBA games? Ask most international players who they idolized growing up, and the answer will probably be an NBA player.

You clearly do not understand the difference between club team competition and national team competition.

[carina_gino20]

I think Ginobili pointed that out when Argentina won the world championships?

I can't find the article now, but I think Ginobili pointed it out after the 2005 Finals.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

NBA being the best basketball championship doesn't make the NBA champion world champion, because no other team even has the chance to participate. It's not like there is some sort of qualification for being in the NBA and european teams, being weaker, are unable to qualify.

Besides the tag World Champion is usually reserved for national teams, not clubs/franchises.

[polandprzem]

Lets call spurs the lakers , if name is not important

[manubili]

Pop is mostly right. But he's wrong when he says that Spain is the World Champ. National teams and Club teams are two different things. In the case of Clubs, there used to be a "Fiba World Cup Championship" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Club_Championship
The last one was made iin 1999, and in 2010 will return.

Until the Fiba and NBA teams don't compete with each other, there won't be any World
Champ. Just NBA and FIBA Champs.

Of course NBA is the best league, but it doesn't prove anything. In any sport, Championships should be won, not just assumed.

[Fetissov]

As much as it kills me to say so, yes, Spain is the World Champion. They won the World Championship. And till they lose the title, they will remain the World champ. A competition opened to every countries in the world willing to play the game of basketball. And the USA were present. Not the NBA, because if is a teams league... Thinking is also available in any languages. Or should be...

[polandprzem]

Pop is mostly right. But he's wrong when he says that Spain is the World Champ. National teams and Club teams are two different things. In the case of Clubs, there used to be a "Fiba World Cup Championship" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Club_Championship
The last one was made iin 1999, and in 2010 will return.

Until the Fiba and NBA teams don't compete with each other, there won't be any World
Champ. Just NBA and FIBA Champs.

Of course NBA is the best league, but it doesn't prove anything. In any sport, Championships should be won, not just assumed.

Nationals are not playing in a leauge

[Pero]

Ignorance is acting like we can't call our champions what we choose when we invented the goddamn game in the first place. :ihit

:lol

[thispego]

While Pop is essentially correct, his crusade about this comes off as something similar to Phil Jackson's antics.

There was a time that Pop would rarely, if ever, stick his nose into other team's affairs, but the last couple of years, he's done this more and more. From the commentary on the Pau Gasol trade to this.

and pop is not entitled to? the league needs people with credibility saying these things. good for pop.

[Pero]

But he's wrong when he says that Spain is the World Champ. National teams and Club teams are two different things. In the case of Clubs, there used to be a "Fiba World Cup Championship" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Club_Championship


No, because it's club not cup. :lol

[Cherry]

I am with :pop: on this one...

This.

[jmard5]

I can't find the article now, but I think Ginobili pointed it out after the 2005 Finals.

I think I read it here in SpursTalk long ago. Anyway, Google pointed me to this forum site where in it was also discussed last 2005.

http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?showtopic=28426

-------
SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - The San Antonio Spurs are no world beaters, by their own admission.

The team has tweaked its new 2005 title banner, which crowns them 'NBA Champions' rather than the league's traditional 'World Champions' designation.

The franchise's other championship banners from 1999 and 2003 have also been changed to reflect the team's place in what has become a global sport.

"(Team officials) have long been leaders in recognizing the international reach of basketball," team spokesman Tom James said.

The Spurs have benefited from that reach. Half the team hails from outside the United States, including starters Tony Parker (France), Manu Ginobili (Argentina) and Rasho Nesterovic (Slovenia).

James conceded that Ginobili and team mate Fabio Uberto, who both played on the gold medal-winning Argentina team at the 2004 Olympics, might better claim the 'world champion' moniker.

"Basketball is now an international game," he said.

NBA rosters include 82 players from outside the U.S.

-------

So there you go.

[jmard5]

My bad. It was actually Kori who pointed that out. There was a discussion last 2005.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28250

[YoMamaIsCallin]

"I'm not trying to be an (expletive)"

Many here would say that Pop needs to make no effort in that regard.

He didn't say he wasn't. He said he wasn't TRYING to be.

[ShoogarBear]

So?

The Spanish soccer league is arguably the best league in the World but you don't see Barcelona being crowned soccer champion of the World . . .

Soccer isn't a sport the US cares about, therefore nobody can be world champion.

[urunobili]

Soccer isn't a sport the US cares about, therefore nobody can be world champion.

I am the center of the world complex/cockiness right there... that's exactly what Pop is tackling... I wonder if Shooga truly is a Spurs fan with this kinda values... :wakeup

[ffadicted]

Soccer isn't a sport the US cares about, therefore nobody can be world champion.

:lol:lol

So sad but so true, lmao america's so funny

[GSH]

Until the Fiba and NBA teams don't compete with each other, there won't be any World
Champ. Just NBA and FIBA Champs.

Of course NBA is the best league, but it doesn't prove anything. In any sport, Championships should be won, not just assumed.


At last... a rational comment from one of the international fans. You're right, Manubili, the ideal thing would be to have NBA and FIBA teams play each other. The problem is, they play two totally different games. If you are really an international basketball fan, you know that's true. I would like to think that some of you are honest enough to admit it, but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

It's kind of ironic that so many of you insist that Americans are arrogant, when FIBA is the one who said, "If you want to be World Champion, you have to come play on OUR courts, by OUR rules." None of you (internationals) would even consider the idea of FIBA teams playing on NBA courts, under NBA rules. Why? Maybe because FIBA's way is the "right" way? I think there is plenty of arrogance to go around on both sides of this argument.

There's no way to have a legitimate World Champion decided on the court. The differences in the rules, and the court dimensions are too extreme. (I'll say it again... we play two different games.) But, beyond that, the best NBA teams will have played a minimum of 98 bruising NBA games to get through the playoffs. Winning in the NBA is, in a very real sense, an endurance test as well as a basketball test. And the NBA playoffs are decided by brutal 7-game series, which helps insure that the better team advances. The FIBA "world championship" consists of a round-robin tournament to qualify, followed by a 16-team, single elimination tournament to crown a champion. It's just a totally different test.

Face it - FIBA crowns the World Champion of FIBA basketball, and the NBA crowns the World Champion of NBA basketball. You can make the case that neither are legitimate "world championships", or that they both are. But you can't say that one is legit and the other is not. I don't mind hearing that the Spanish team is World Champion of FIBA ball, but I don't dispute what the Celtics put on their banners, either.

[dbestpro]

If Pop is such a technocrat then why did he allow Timmy to take such a beating this year without an help. Technically speaking, of course.

[GSH]

And for you American fans who buy into everything Pop said, because it sounds logical, consider this:

1. The FIBA Championships are a 16-team single-elimination tournament. If the NBA played by those rules, how many "NBA Championships" would the Spurs have? Answer - one. In their last 3 Championship runs, the Spurs lost their opening game. In FIBA competition, they would have been out. Last season, the Lakers lost to the Rockets in the first game of Round 2... out. Do you really believe that a World Championship decided by a single game proves which team is best?

2. The NBA 3-point distance is 23.75 feet, and 22 feet in the corners. The NCAA 3-point distance is only 20.75 feet, and a lot of guys who shoot great in college can't consistently hit from 3 feet further out. Well, the FIBA 3-point line is only 20.5 feet, shorter than even the NCAA. Couple that with the trapezoid-shaped lane - which discourages play under the basket, but allows players to camp 12 feet from the basket without being in the paint. Do you really think we play the same game? Then how can you agree that the only "legitimate" World Champion is one that is decided by FIBA rules?

3. The FIBA court is 2 feet shorter, and quarters are only 10 minutes long. That makes it MUCH easier on the bigs to run the floor. FIBA teams can play a zone defense, with no defensive 3-second rule - which means that bigs can camp in the paint. Goaltending is legal under FIBA rules. Once again, how can you buy into the idea that there could be a unified World Championship, when the leagues are playing totally different games?


It's not a question of which one is better - they are just different. The differences aren't as big as those between American Football and rest-of-the-world football (soccer, to us). But they are too different to shove under one umbrella. I don't think that any (current) FIBA team could compete under NBA rules, over an 82-game season. And I don't buy the idea that using the term "World Champion" reqires playing under FIBA rules. It was a stupid, unnecessary rant by Pop. The Celtics have earned every one of those banners, many of them before FIBA was any factor in the basketball world. Pop should probably tone it down until he proves that he can do something without a young Tim Duncan.

I can admit that FIBA rules have made a lot of NBA players look pretty crappy. Their game isn't suited to that style of play. I think a lot of FIBA fans should man up and admit the same thing about their players under NBA rules.

[kaji157]

And for you American fans who buy into everything Pop said, because it sounds logical, consider this:

1. The FIBA Championships are a 16-team single-elimination tournament. If the NBA played by those rules, how many "NBA Championships" would the Spurs have? Answer - one. In their last 3 Championship runs, the Spurs lost their opening game. In FIBA competition, they would have been out. Last season, the Lakers lost to the Rockets in the first game of Round 2... out. Do you really believe that a World Championship decided by a single game proves which team is best?

2. The NBA 3-point distance is 23.75 feet, and 22 feet in the corners. The NCAA 3-point distance is only 20.75 feet, and a lot of guys who shoot great in college can't consistently hit from 3 feet further out. Well, the FIBA 3-point line is only 20.5 feet, shorter than even the NCAA. Couple that with the trapezoid-shaped lane - which discourages play under the basket, but allows players to camp 12 feet from the basket without being in the paint. Do you really think we play the same game? Then how can you agree that the only "legitimate" World Champion is one that is decided by FIBA rules?

3. The FIBA court is 2 feet shorter, and quarters are only 10 minutes long. That makes it MUCH easier on the bigs to run the floor. FIBA teams can play a zone defense, with no defensive 3-second rule - which means that bigs can camp in the paint. Goaltending is legal under FIBA rules. Once again, how can you buy into the idea that there could be a unified World Championship, when the leagues are playing totally different games?


It's not a question of which one is better - they are just different. The differences aren't as big as those between American Football and rest-of-the-world football (soccer, to us). But they are too different to shove under one umbrella. I don't think that any (current) FIBA team could compete under NBA rules, over an 82-game season. And I don't buy the idea that using the term "World Champion" reqires playing under FIBA rules. It was a stupid, unnecessary rant by Pop. The Celtics have earned every one of those banners, many of them before FIBA was any factor in the basketball world. Pop should probably tone it down until he proves that he can do something without a young Tim Duncan.

I can admit that FIBA rules have made a lot of NBA players look pretty crappy. Their game isn't suited to that style of play. I think a lot of FIBA fans should man up and admit the same thing about their players under NBA rules.

Just a few things.
1st FIBA has changed the 3pt line, it is now exactly the same as the NBA.
2nd I don´t think anyone here argues about the way the NBA is played, but the argument is made that only US teams are allowed to compete with NBA teams, a tournament must be international for you to call world champions.

It is like if we in Argentina named "world champions" to the Argentina Polo champion as we have the best players, our players lead all teams in international competitions (that are significantly worse than argentinean championship) and the Polo Federation doesn´t allow Argentina to bring any of our best 20-30 players into the Polo World Cup because they are too good (this is not a joke), yet, we could very well call "World Champion" to our league winner, but we don´t out of respect.

Following with the "International" argument, the reason we don´t do it is because only Argentinean teams play our polo championship, this is teh Argentina Championship, in order to have a world champion, even if it is meaningless as it is in Polo for the reasons given, yopu have to allow all countrys the chance to play or qualify for it.

In soccer, there is no "World Champions", what exists is a "World Club Championship" in where the winners of each Continental Clubs Cup play each other. And the winner is entitled "Club´s World Cup Champion".

You outta respect the world if you want to get that recognition. I think the McDonalds World Cup, that was played before in which lastedition in 1999 the Spurs where the champions, resembles the idea of how a World Club Championship must be, it was also designed in a way than the competition combined rules of both the NBA and the European (FIBA) leagues.

In 2010 the FIBA World Club Championship will start but it won´t be a top tier tournament as it will be launched as a prototype, no NBA team has been invited because of this and also the Euroleague Champion won´t participate as well. But they plan to use this experience and have a better competition in 2011, inviting also the CBA (China) Champion as well as an NBA team (not confirmed that will be the champion), if this pans out well, we will have a good international Club competition set for 2012 as the most early.

[ZB 512]

Popovich is so right. It's ridiculous to see NBA teams calling themselves "world" champions.

of course, I would like to see the Mavs have that problem some day, but I digress

[ZB 512]

Face it - FIBA crowns the World Champion of FIBA basketball, and the NBA crowns the World Champion of NBA basketball. You can make the case that neither are legitimate "world championships", or that they both are. But you can't say that one is legit and the other is not. I don't mind hearing that the Spanish team is World Champion of FIBA ball, but I don't dispute what the Celtics put on their banners, either.

The team that wins the world championship is the world champion. The team that wins the NBA championship is the NBA champion

Calling the MLB championship series the "world" series is ridiculous as well imo even though it's an old tradition. I love the "world series", but hate the name.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

GSH is really spot on--FIBA basketball and NBA basketball are two mind-bogglingly different things.

I really do not think, however, that an international team could hang with the top NBA teams over an 82 forty-eight minute regular season games AND a grueling 7-7-7-7 playoff format. A single-elimination tournament is nearly always inferior to the series format (with the possible exception of American football). Not saying they couldn't get there, but they aren't close yet.

[ZB 512]

GSH is really spot on--FIBA basketball and NBA basketball are two mind-bogglingly different things.

I really do not think, however, that an international team could hang with the top NBA teams over an 82 forty-eight minute regular season games AND a grueling 7-7-7-7 playoff format. A single-elimination tournament is nearly always inferior to the series format (with the possible exception of American football). Not saying they couldn't get there, but they aren't close yet.

I agree and that is why winning the NBA championship is more impressive than winning the world championships imo....but winning the NBA championship does make a team the "world champions"

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I agree and that is why winning the NBA championship is more impressive than winning the world championships imo....but winning the NBA championship does NOT make a team the "world champions"

fify, even though I disagree ;)

[Fernando TD21]

NBA being the best basketball championship doesn't make the NBA champion world champion, because no other team even has the chance to participate. It's not like there is some sort of qualification for being in the NBA and european teams, being weaker, are unable to qualify.

Besides the tag World Champion is usually reserved for national teams, not clubs/franchises.
Agreed.

[temujin]

At last... a rational comment from one of the international fans. You're right, Manubili, the ideal thing would be to have NBA and FIBA teams play each other. The problem is, they play two totally different games. If you are really an international basketball fan, you know that's true. I would like to think that some of you are honest enough to admit it, but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

It's kind of ironic that so many of you insist that Americans are arrogant, when FIBA is the one who said, "If you want to be World Champion, you have to come play on OUR courts, by OUR rules." None of you (internationals) would even consider the idea of FIBA teams playing on NBA courts, under NBA rules. Why? Maybe because FIBA's way is the "right" way? I think there is plenty of arrogance to go around on both sides of this argument.

There's no way to have a legitimate World Champion decided on the court. The differences in the rules, and the court dimensions are too extreme. (I'll say it again... we play two different games.) But, beyond that, the best NBA teams will have played a minimum of 98 bruising NBA games to get through the playoffs. Winning in the NBA is, in a very real sense, an endurance test as well as a basketball test. And the NBA playoffs are decided by brutal 7-game series, which helps insure that the better team advances. The FIBA "world championship" consists of a round-robin tournament to qualify, followed by a 16-team, single elimination tournament to crown a champion. It's just a totally different test.

Face it - FIBA crowns the World Champion of FIBA basketball, and the NBA crowns the World Champion of NBA basketball. You can make the case that neither are legitimate "world championships", or that they both are. But you can't say that one is legit and the other is not. I don't mind hearing that the Spanish team is World Champion of FIBA ball, but I don't dispute what the Celtics put on their banners, either.

1) True. NBA and FIBA have different rules: a guy like James, for one, would be called for travelling 20-30 times during a game by FIBA rules. Including little kids games. It's a lot easier to beat the defender when you can take a couple of steps before you actually bounce the ball for the first dribble.

2) FIBA is a federation of basketball organizations of how many 150 states? NBA is a COMPANY with 30 franchises in ONE state.

3) Playing 82 mostly irrelevant games is part of the problem, in my eyes, yes. And rarely a 7 games series ends up with a FINAL, deciding game. It's nearly always tomorrow, in the NBA. It's almost NEVER tomorrow in FIBA championships.

4) We can face it: the NBA crowns the WORLD champions of NBA basketball, if you believe that there is nothing beyond the NBA. There is a lot, actually. As the history of recent international competitions have proven.

And as coach Popovich, and the Spurs FO, was the FIRST to understand.

Which is precisely the reason why is so successful in his business.


In summary, as a NON-American basketball fan and ex-player, I thank coach Popovich for his nice comments, right on target.

[Ozzy]

At last... a rational comment from one of the international fans. You're right, Manubili, the ideal thing would be to have NBA and FIBA teams play each other. The problem is, they play two totally different games. If you are really an international basketball fan, you know that's true. I would like to think that some of you are honest enough to admit it, but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.



There are currently 83 foreign players on the NBA roster (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/10/27/international.players/index.html), most of whom grew up learning basketball under FIBA rules. It looks like they don't have a problem adapting their game to the NBA rules. How, if the game is that different?

[Manufan909]

Reactionary jingoist much?

Link?

Beat me to it. Pop in no way talked mess about America, just American arrogance. It disgusts many Americans, myself included.

And I don't follow baseball, but how long have other nations been able to match and even beat America at its own past time? The World Series definitely has no grounds to stand on. At least Americans still get the gold in basketball every once in awhile.

[Manufan909]

And for you American fans who buy into everything Pop said, because it sounds logical, consider this:

1. The FIBA Championships are a 16-team single-elimination tournament. If the NBA played by those rules, how many "NBA Championships" would the Spurs have? Answer - one. In their last 3 Championship runs, the Spurs lost their opening game. In FIBA competition, they would have been out. Last season, the Lakers lost to the Rockets in the first game of Round 2... out. Do you really believe that a World Championship decided by a single game proves which team is best?

2. The NBA 3-point distance is 23.75 feet, and 22 feet in the corners. The NCAA 3-point distance is only 20.75 feet, and a lot of guys who shoot great in college can't consistently hit from 3 feet further out. Well, the FIBA 3-point line is only 20.5 feet, shorter than even the NCAA. Couple that with the trapezoid-shaped lane - which discourages play under the basket, but allows players to camp 12 feet from the basket without being in the paint. Do you really think we play the same game? Then how can you agree that the only "legitimate" World Champion is one that is decided by FIBA rules?

3. The FIBA court is 2 feet shorter, and quarters are only 10 minutes long. That makes it MUCH easier on the bigs to run the floor. FIBA teams can play a zone defense, with no defensive 3-second rule - which means that bigs can camp in the paint. Goaltending is legal under FIBA rules. Once again, how can you buy into the idea that there could be a unified World Championship, when the leagues are playing totally different games?


It's not a question of which one is better - they are just different. The differences aren't as big as those between American Football and rest-of-the-world football (soccer, to us). But they are too different to shove under one umbrella. I don't think that any (current) FIBA team could compete under NBA rules, over an 82-game season. And I don't buy the idea that using the term "World Champion" reqires playing under FIBA rules. It was a stupid, unnecessary rant by Pop. The Celtics have earned every one of those banners, many of them before FIBA was any factor in the basketball world. Pop should probably tone it down until he proves that he can do something without a young Tim Duncan.

I can admit that FIBA rules have made a lot of NBA players look pretty crappy. Their game isn't suited to that style of play. I think a lot of FIBA fans should man up and admit the same thing about their players under NBA rules.

Fuck, I don't agree, with you, but I do. I would argue most vehemently for no one to be able to say that they are the world champions. It would be as hard to decide that as deciding a universal currency. Neither FIBA or NBA would budge, and if they tried to meet halfway rules-wise, both organizations wouldn't be able to agree what the equilibrium would be. I'm guessing one way to decide would be that there would have to be one game under FIBA rules, one under NBA rules, and one under averaged rules. If one team won the first two games, there'd be no need for a third. Or another way would be a 5/7 game series with averaged rules, but the FIBA side would bitch that's how it's done in the NBA, not FIBA. And the NBA might bitch about only playing 1 game. And no, I don't have a clue how the zebras would be chosen, and how they'd make sense of rules they'd never had to follow before.

P.S. By "rules", I mean measurements of the court, how charges, goaltending, defensive 3 sec, and other things are officiated, # of available fouls, and pretty much anything else different about the two leagues.

[GSH]

Fuck, I don't agree, with you, but I do. I would argue most vehemently for no one to be able to say that they are the world champions. It would be as hard to decide that as deciding a universal currency. Neither FIBA or NBA would budge...

P.S. By "rules", I mean measurements of the court, how charges, goaltending, defensive 3 sec, and other things are officiated, # of available fouls, and pretty much anything else different about the two leagues.


Bravo!!! I know it's hard to swallow, but neither league has the "right" to claim a World Championship. That said, if FIBA wants to use that title, I don't care. And if the Celtics want it on their banners, so what? It doesn't change a thing.

I'll let you FIBA fans in on a little secret. The American fans didn't name the World Series, and they didn't put the words "World Champions" on the Celtics' banners. The owners did it, to generate hype and make more money. The average fan never, ever, ever thinks about it until one of you (or Greg Popovich) brings it up. We may think, "We beat the Pistons in the Finals" or "We beat the Yankees in 6 Games". But I've never had the thought, "My team is the best in the world." For you guys to generalize that American fans are arrogant, because the team owners chose to use the word "World" is kind of ridiculous. We laugh right back at you. You may not like that, because it challenges your world view about Americans. But it's true.

When you guys start arguing that FIBA teams are just as good as NBA teams, we're going to argue back. It's what sports fans do. But the fact is, we'll never know unless they decide to compete with each other under a common set of rules. And I don't see how that can happen unless they combine into a World League.

But since you insist that Americans are the arrogant ones, I'm going to post some facts about how FIBA came to "own" the name World Champions. I keep hoping that a few of you are going to be big enough to man up and say, "Gee... I guess we aren't perfect, either."

[GSH]

So exactly how did FIBA come to "own" the use of World Championship?

FIBA was founded as an amateur basketball federation, which they remained until 1989. (You do know that the "A" in FIBA stands for amateur, don't you?) They staged their first "World Championship" in 1950, even though only 10 teams played in the tournament. (That same year, the Minneapolis Lakers won their second professional NBA title.) So how can the winner of a crappy 10-team tournament be considered a "World Champion"? Because FIBA said so? If you don't like the word arrogant, let's just call it presumptuous.

For 40 years, the FIBA "World Championship" was supposedly an amateur competition. But many of the countries featured squads that were sponsored, and played together year round. They had veteran players who were professionals in everything but name. The American teams were made up of college kids who were selected to play, and practiced together a few times before competing. The winners of those tournaments never faced the best players in the world, who were professionals. But they still called themsleves "World Champions". Why? Because FIBA said so. Still don't see any FIBA arrogance?

What FIBA should have called the tourney was the Amateur World Championships. Were any of you FIBA fans talking about how arrogant it was for FIBA to claim the title of World Champion back then? Nope. They got a pass, because it was understood that it was an amateur championship.

How about 1986? The USA team won the FIBA World Championship, with a bunch of recently-graduated college players. That same year, the Boston Celtics (featuring Larry Bird) beat the Houston Rockets (featuring Hakeem Olajuwon) in the NBA Finals. So the USA college all-star team was considered the World Champion, while the Celtics were "just" the NBA Champions. Why? Because FIBA said so. Team USA wouldn't have been in the Top 10 in the NBA, but they were supposed to be the best team in the world? That's not arrogance, it's just stupidity.

Everyone accepted that FIBA was amateur competition, and virtually no one would have suggested that those teams could have competed in the NBA. So in 1989, FIBA finally started officially allowing professional players. But the rosters of all the best teams (USSR, Yugoslavia, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc.) were largely the same as the previous year. Naturally, FIBA looked for a way to have their professionals compete against the NBA professionals, right? Nope... the FIBA (Amateur) World Championship just became the de facto FIBA (Professional) World Championship. Same tourney, same players - but suddenly they are presumed to be on par with the NBA? Why? Because FIBA said so. Somehow, simply using the name "World Championship" makes it a fact?

Incidentally - the 1990 "World Champion" Yugoslavian team featured 7-year vet Drazen Petrovic, Vlade Divac (5 years), Tony Kukoc (3 years), and USA team featured a 20 year old Alonzo Mourning, 20 year old Christian Laettner, 19 year old Kenny Anderson, Chris Gatling, Henry Williams, Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, Billy Owens, and some other guys you don't know. That same year, the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons repeated as NBA Champions. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best... right?

FIBA was arrogant as hell for not calling their tourney the World Amateur Championship. And when they made the transition to a professional league, they were just as arrogant for keeping the name, when they knew that they were excluding the best of the NBA. Yes, they have international competition. But don't you guys all say that championships have to be earned?

Like I've said. If they want to use the name, fine. But don't pretend that there is only one side to the story.

[NFGIII]

Technically speaking, Pop is right...

Agreed and this is an example of the evolution in thinking as national borders are continuously being broken down. Within a generation or so I really don't think this subject would generate this much interest and conversation.


with as good as European ball has been in the last decade or so and how much it's progressed, he's got a point. you can't just assume anymore that the NBA Champions are World champions. It's highly likely that they would beat any European team, though. technically, speaking he's right. i personally prefer NBA champions in this day and age now, but i think it's much ado about nothing. probably the hournalist asked Pop about it. i seriously doubt Pop just mentioned it out of nowhere just to be contrary.


i do think that back when Russell won all his rings and the US had the one and only real competitive league, the "World Champions" title is correct. so i disagree w/ pop on that.

Prior to the late '90s or beyond there was no question that the NBA was the best league on this planet and I believe it still is. Calling former NBA champions in the 20th century World Champions doesn't present a problem with me. There was absolutely no way any national team outside of the USA that could even remotely stay with those teams as evidenced with the Dream Team's performance in the '92 Olympics. The fact that many non-Americans think that concept is arrogant and wrong is meaningless since at the time no nation or nations could have been competitive against the NBA. So essentially those NBA champions were the best in the world irrespective of what other people think. It is what it is.

But as stated above things are a changin'!


Soccer isn't a sport the US cares about, therefore nobody can be world champion.


Pop is right. Americans have some kind of "world" fetish, that`s why the rest of the world likes to make fun of them. If you are so ignorant to call your national tournament "World series" you deserve it. :)

So you really think that prior to say 10 or so years ago that the world could actually compete with the USA in either baseball or Basketball?

Really? Arrogance not withstanding. Really????

And ShoogarBear has a point here - the USA doesn't either emphasize or put all that much effort and money into the sport at the present time. Though it has gained a lot of attention over the past decade or so but I don't think it will ever rival the big 4 - Baseball, football, basketball, hockey.

If this nation would to embrace soccer like it does the big 4 then you can just about ship the FIFA trophy in "football" to the USA every four years. We would dominate and that's not just my opinion either. I have many friends who are non-American who have talked to me about the "what if" scenario concerning USA focusing on soccer first. (I assure them that they have nothing to fear but fear itself and to stop worrying about it. It ain't gonna happen! Ever) But with our integrated athletic programs starting with kids 6 or younger - city leagues followed by elementary/junior high/high school/college institutions all plugging into this would turn out teams you could only dream about. If all our best athletes played soccer first rather than any of the big 4 it would be an international nightmare for all of you not part of the USA.


This issue has nothing to do with the fact the NBA champions are better than the WC champions or the Olympic champions. It has to do with the fact the NBA is not a world tournament. Countries don't compete against each other. If the US competed with their NBA stars every four years in the WC, then they would prabably be the perennial World Champions (the US NT, that is, not an NBA team).

In order for an NBA team to be named "World Champs" they woulkd have to play against the champions of the other leagues (Europe, South AMerica, Asia, etc).

Technically you are correct and from say 2000 on out I believe that is the best way to view it but in the past there couldn't be an agruement to that effect. There just wasn't any credible teams worthy of competing against the NBA teams regardless of whether they either had a team, weren't given the chance to compete in the NBA or world tournaments or for that matter that a world tournament existed.

Now that it does then a true world champion can be determined.

But that brings up a very sticky point: NBA vs FIBA rules - see below


And for you American fans who buy into everything Pop said, because it sounds logical, consider this:

It's not a question of which one is better - they are just different. The differences aren't as big as those between American Football and rest-of-the-world football (soccer, to us). But they are too different to shove under one umbrella. I don't think that any (current) FIBA team could compete under NBA rules, over an 82-game season. And I don't buy the idea that using the term "World Champion" reqires playing under FIBA rules. It was a stupid, unnecessary rant by Pop. The Celtics have earned every one of those banners, many of them before FIBA was any factor in the basketball world. Pop should probably tone it down until he proves that he can do something without a young Tim Duncan.

I can admit that FIBA rules have made a lot of NBA players look pretty crappy. Their game isn't suited to that style of play. I think a lot of FIBA fans should man up and admit the same thing about their players under NBA rules.

I agree with you on this. The two styles are completely different and should be viewed as such. I've always wondered how an American invented game was hijacked by the Olympic committee and FIBA and turned into what we see today. With all due respect to those that like the FIBA game it just isn't as good as the NBA version but that's just my honest opinion. To each his own. I grew up in England and went to English schools for two years so I grew up playing sccor first and to this day will always watch it. I lkie the game but many of my friends here think it's boring and dull and call me a *****. I could care less what they say becasue I watch soccer and this summer is going to be great! Every four years I even schedule vacation time in order to catch daytime games.

And for the TD reference he was totally disgusted by the way he was beat up down low without so much as a call here and there. He was completely ineffective in Athens in '04. A great example of how FIBA rules make NBA players look crappy. I didn't blame him for not wanting to play again in international tourneys.


So exactly how did FIBA come to "own" the use of World Championship?

FIBA was founded as an amateur basketball federation, which they remained until 1989. (You do know that the "A" in FIBA stands for amateur, don't you?) They staged their first "World Championship" in 1950, even though only 10 teams played in the tournament. (That same year, the Minneapolis Lakers won their second professional NBA title.) So how can the winner of a crappy 10-team tournament be considered a "World Champion"? Because FIBA said so? If you don't like the word arrogant, let's just call it presumptuous.

For 40 years, the FIBA "World Championship" was supposedly an amateur competition. But many of the countries featured squads that were sponsored, and played together year round. They had veteran players who were professionals in everything but name. The American teams were made up of college kids who were selected to play, and practiced together a few times before competing. The winners of those tournaments never faced the best players in the world, who were professionals. But they still called themsleves "World Champions". Why? Because FIBA said so. Still don't see any FIBA arrogance?

What FIBA should have called the tourney was the Amateur World Championships. Were any of you FIBA fans talking about how arrogant it was for FIBA to claim the title of World Champion back then? Nope. They got a pass, because it was understood that it was an amateur championship.

How about 1986? The USA team won the FIBA World Championship, with a bunch of recently-graduated college players. That same year, the Boston Celtics (featuring Larry Bird) beat the Houston Rockets (featuring Hakeem Olajuwon) in the NBA Finals. So the USA college all-star team was considered the World Champion, while the Celtics were "just" the NBA Champions. Why? Because FIBA said so. Team USA wouldn't have been in the Top 10 in the NBA, but they were supposed to be the best team in the world? That's not arrogance, it's just stupidity.

Everyone accepted that FIBA was amateur competition, and virtually no one would have suggested that those teams could have competed in the NBA. So in 1989, FIBA finally started officially allowing professional players. But the rosters of all the best teams (USSR, Yugoslavia, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc.) were largely the same as the previous year. Naturally, FIBA looked for a way to have their professionals compete against the NBA professionals, right? Nope... the FIBA (Amateur) World Championship just became the de facto FIBA (Professional) World Championship. Same tourney, same players - but suddenly they are presumed to be on par with the NBA? Why? Because FIBA said so. Somehow, simply using the name "World Championship" makes it a fact?

Incidentally - the 1990 "World Champion" Yugoslavian team featured 7-year vet Drazen Petrovic, Vlade Divac (5 years), Tony Kukoc (3 years), and USA team featured a 20 year old Alonzo Mourning, 20 year old Christian Laettner, 19 year old Kenny Anderson, Chris Gatling, Henry Williams, Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, Billy Owens, and some other guys you don't know. That same year, the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons repeated as NBA Champions. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best... right?

FIBA was arrogant as hell for not calling their tourney the World Amateur Championship. And when they made the transition to a professional league, they were just as arrogant for keeping the name, when they knew that they were excluding the best of the NBA. Yes, they have international competition. But don't you guys all say that championships have to be earned?

Like I've said. If they want to use the name, fine. But don't pretend that there is only one side to the story.

Always two sides to a coin or agrument. And I agree with you about what FIBA has done to the sport and how it has portrayed itself to the world.

But how are these two different styles of play/rules going to be reconciled? Probably never or if so then with alot of pain and suffering. Because I believe that there will never be a true World Champion if two different sets of rules exist. As stated about TD earlier he was completely ineffective under the FIBA system. He learned a totally different game and got exposed for that under the current Olympic/FIBA system. I believe that if the NBA type of play/rules were in force at the time things would have been very different. But then I believe many internationals would be up in arms about changing the rules to accomodate NBA players.

Good luck with that one. Our great gandkids may not even see that happening.