Your team's ideal playoff rotation

[Findog]

Here's mine:

C: Haywood - 33 minutes, Dampier 15
PF: Dirk - 41 minutes, Marion 7
SF: Marion - 26 minutes, Butler 22
SG: Butler - 12 minutes, Terry 28, Beaubois 8
PG: Kidd - 38 minutes, Beaubois 10

Dirk - 41
Kidd - 38
Butler - 34
Marion - 33
Haywood - 33
Terry - 28
Beaubois - 18
Dampier - 15

[IronMexican]

Where's Barea? He should get at least 25 minutes.

[Findog]

Where's Barea? He should get at least 25 minutes.

Barea is the Iron Man - he should play all 48.

[JamStone]

John Wall 35, Greivis Vazques 15
Evan Turner 36, Durrell Summers 10
Da'Sean Butler 30, Wesley Johnson 10
Derrick Favors 34, Patrick Patterson 15
DeMarcus Cousins 30, Ekpe Udoh 25

[monosylab1k]

C - Haywood 30 min, Dampier 10 min, Nowitzki 8 min
PF - Nowitzki 34 min, Marion 14 min
SF - Marion 20 min, Butler 28 min
SG - Butler 8 min, Terry 18 min, Beabuois 22 min
PG - Kidd 38 min, Terry 10 min

Nowitzki - 42
Kidd - 38
Butler - 36
Marion - 34
Haywood - 30
Terry - 28
Beaubois - 22
Dampier - 10

[Rick Carlisle]

Where's Barea? He should get at least 25 minutes.
+1
What a dumbass.

Los Mavs
Kidd-30, JJ-18
Butler-10, JJ- 20, Terry-18
Marion-10, Terry- 20, Butler- 18
Dirk- 30, El Rayo- 28
Haywood- 25, El Rayo- 23.


Is what I'm rolling with.


No I didn't forget about Dampier

[Donnie Nelson]

The one glaring hole I see right now is that there's not enough veteran savvy on the Mavericks. We're looking to swing a deal for Jerry Stackhouse via a loophole in the NBA trade deadline rules, just as long as Jerry keeps his mouth shut this time. I also plan to do the same thing to get back Devean George and his championship experience.

Dampier-28, Haywood-20
Dirk-30, Najera-18
George-30, Butler-18
Stackhouse-32, Butler-16
Kidd-30, Barea-18

Unfortunately Shawn Marion will have to ride the pine. He may do things like hustle, play defense, rebound, and some cleanup scoring, but he doesn't have the veteran presence of a George or Stackhouse. He also has a really ugly shot, and honestly if a guy is going to brick all of their wide open 3 pointers, I'd rather he do it with the textbook form of a Devean George.

[Xylus]

I'll just say Lopez is healthy for the fuck of it

PG - Nash 32 Dragic 16
SG - J-Rich 34 Dragic 8 Dudley 6
SF - Hill 20 Dudley 18 Clark 10
PF - Amare 38 Lou Amundson 10
C - Lopez 30 Collins 10 Frye 8

No, I didn't forget Barbosa.

Giving Collins more minutes than Frye is crrrrrazy.

PG - Nash 34 Dragic 14
SG - JRich 34 Barbosa 10 Dragic 4
SF - Hill 28 Dudley 20
PF - Amare 40 Amundson 8
C - Lopez 26 Frye 20 Amundson 2

Collins should only get PT if Lopez is in foul trouble and we need a solid defensive big. Clark shouldn't get any PT at all unless both Hill and Dudley are in foul trouble.

I'm willing to give Dragic more than 18 minutes if the bench is playing good D, or if Nash is a turnover machine. These minutes are based on the assumption that all of these players will play up to expectation. If Goran exceeds expectation, he gets more minutes, at the 1 and 2.

Amare should be playing 40 minutes a night. He seems to play best alongside Lopez, but I'd like to see him share the frontcourt with Amundson, too.

[picc84]

This topic should be fun. Thats a lot of minutes for Haywood too, isnt it?

Anyway.

C: Gasol - 32 minutes, Bynum - 16 minutes
PF: Odom - 40 minutes, Gasol - 8 minutes
SF: Artest - 36 minutes, Walton - 7 minutes, Bryant - 5 minutes
SG: Bryant - 35 minutes, Brown - 8 minutes, Vujacic - 5 minutes
PG: Farmar - 24 minutes, Brown 16 minutes, Vujacic - 7 minutes 59 seconds, Fisher - 1 second

[Findog]

This topic should be fun. Thats a lot of minutes for Haywood too, isnt it?

Anyway.

C: Gasol - 32 minutes, Bynum - 16 minutes
PF: Odom - 40 minutes, Gasol - 8 minutes
SF: Artest - 36 minutes, Walton - 7 minutes, Bryant - 5 minutes
SG: Bryant - 35 minutes, Brown - 8 minutes, Vujacic - 5 minutes
PG: Farmar - 24 minutes, Brown 16 minutes, Vujacic - 7 minutes 59 seconds, Fisher - 1 second

Fisher should only play the last two minutes of a game.

[badfish22]

Here's mine:

C: Haywood - 33 minutes, Dampier 15
PF: Dirk - 41 minutes, Marion 7
SF: Marion - 26 minutes, Butler 22
SG: Butler - 12 minutes, Terry 28, Beaubois 8
PG: Kidd - 38 minutes, Beaubois 10

Dirk - 41
Kidd - 38
Butler - 34
Marion - 33
Haywood - 33
Terry - 28
Beaubois - 18
Dampier - 15

Id probably give Butler a couple more minutes, but I like this rotation.

Also its a given that Roddys minutes should go up and down based on whether he is hot or not, but there is a very small chance he will get 18 a game obviously.

[Ghazi]

+1
What a dumbass.

Los Mavs
Kidd-30, JJ-18
Butler-10, JJ- 20, Terry-18
Marion-10, Terry- 20, Butler- 18
Dirk- 30, El Rayo- 28
Haywood- 25, El Rayo- 23.


Is what I'm rolling with.


No I didn't forget about Dampier

:lol @ Najera's 51 minutes.

[picc84]

Fisher should only play the last two minutes of a game.

He can have 2 minutes. If its a blowout.

Let him get DJ Mbenga and Josh Powell in foul trouble.

[PGDynasty24]

Fisher should only be in there for last 2 minutes of 4th qtr

[Muser]

C - McDyess - 28, Duncan - 15, Bonner - 5
PF - Duncan - 23, McDyess - 7, Blair - 10, Bonner - 8
SF - Jefferson - 35, Manu - 5, Bogans - 5, Hairston - 3
SG - Manu - 30, Hill - 10, Mason - 8
PG - Parker - 25, Hill - 20, Manu - 3


Manu's minutes are a bit high, but it's the playoffs. Parkers minutes could go up or down depending on how he looks first few games back.

[mavsfan1000]

PG Kidd 36 minutes/Terry 12 minutes
SG Beaubois 30 minutes/Terry 18 minutes
SF Marion 20 minutes/Butler 28 minutes
PF Nowitzki 38 minutes (or some of those minutes at C)/Marion 10 minutes
C Haywood 32 minutes/Dampier, Najera, and Dirk based on matchups for 16 minutes.

[nkdlunch]

PG - Manu
SG - Manu
SF - Manu
PF - Manu
C - Manu

Coach: Manu

[Xylus]

The 2007 and 2008 Spurs series called, they wanna know why Barbosa is in your playoff rotation.

Why is Clark in yours?

[Xylus]

1) My personal view is it's a good opportunity to get his feet wet. At this point it's a pipe dream but getting a young player familiar with the playoffs ASAP is my preference.
2) Lets say they play Denver in the 1st round. Who other than Clark has the size and athleticism to effectively guard Melo? No one. Everyone else is either too small or too slow. Clark has the physical tools no one else on the team has.
3) Clark is unproven in the playoffs, Barbosa is a proven choker. Worst case scenario is Clark is as detrimental to them as Barbosa would be. Would you rather be the kid who hasn't taken the test, or the kid who's already received an F?

My thing is, you don't stick a rookie on the floor in the playoffs, when he's seen very little PT throughout the regular season. He needs to get his feet wet during the year before he gets an opportunity in the postseason. Barbosa is a proven choker, you're right, but mainly just against the Spurs. With Dragic playing backup point, and JRich logging most of the SG minutes, there's no reason to play Barbosa long enough for him to choke the game away.

[peteee]

The one glaring hole I see right now is that there's not enough veteran savvy on the Mavericks. We're looking to swing a deal for Jerry Stackhouse via a loophole in the NBA trade deadline rules, just as long as Jerry keeps his mouth shut this time. I also plan to do the same thing to get back Devean George and his championship experience.

Dampier-28, Haywood-20
Dirk-30, Najera-18
George-30, Butler-18
Stackhouse-32, Butler-16
Kidd-30, Barea-18

Unfortunately Shawn Marion will have to ride the pine. He may do things like hustle, play defense, rebound, and some cleanup scoring, but he doesn't have the veteran presence of a George or Stackhouse. He also has a really ugly shot, and honestly if a guy is going to brick all of their wide open 3 pointers, I'd rather he do it with the textbook form of a Devean George.
Mavs choking occasions can all be tracked back to your bad management, you verbose piece of shit.

[peteee]

C - Collison 26/ D.J White 22
PF - Jeff Green 20/ Collison 12/ D.J White 16
SF - Durant 32/ Jeff Green 16
SG - Harden 30/ Durant 12/ Weaver 6
PG - Westbrook 38/ Harden 10

[LnGrrrR]

C- Perkins 48
PF - Garnett 48
SF - Pierce 48
SG - Allen 48
PG - Rondo 48

Mainly cause I don't trust the backups.

I guess if we're going with realistic numbers...

C - Perkins 35, Sheed 8, Shelden 5
PF - Garnett 30, Big Baby 16, Scalabrine 2 (it's just funny to see him in there)
SF - Pierce 40, Marquis 8
PG - R. Allen 34, Finley 10, T. Allen 4
SG - Rondo 38, Nate Robinson 10

I don't trust Sheed much, hence the shared time with Shelden. Trying to keep Garnett's minutes low due to advanced age, and Allen somewhat lessened for the same reason. I haven't seen enough of Finley playing with us to know how he'll perform come playoff time.

And Pierce? Well, I don't think we have a chance unless he A) play significantly well and B) logs alot of minutes. Sadly.

[noob cake]

We are not in the playoffs, but...

Brooks 20/Lowry 28
Martin 32/Brooks 12/Budinger 8
Ariza 30/Battier 14/Budinger 4
Scola 36/Hill 8/Hayes 4
Hayes 20/Andersen 20/Hill 8

[TD 21]

When you say ideal, do you mean realistic too, right? Ideally, I'd like to see Duncan log 40-42 mpg, like he used to be able to, but realistically I know at this point asking anything more than 36 mpg is probably not realistic. I'd also like to see 38-40 mpg out of Parker, but he won't be in the type of game shape/rhythm that permits him to play that much that soon.

PF: McDyess - 25 mpg, Bonner - 15 mpg, Blair - 8 mpg
SF: Jefferson - 36 mpg, Bogans - 12 mpg
C: Duncan - 36 mpg, Blair - 12 mpg
SG: Ginobili - 34 mpg, Hill - 14 mpg
PG: Parker - 32 mpg, Hill - 16 mpg

This is what I'd like to see, but I don't think Hill will come off the bench. I think Parker will to start, then if the Spurs get in a 2-0 hole, he'll be re-inserted into the starting lineup and Ginobili will be returned to the bench. Also, Bonner will be the third big, ahead of Blair.

[DAF86]

I would have liked to see what Hairston and Mahinmi are able to bring but since that didn't happen, I would go with:

Line-up

Hill - from 32 to 40 depending on how he plays
Manu - around 36
RJ - from 30 to 40
Dice - from 20 to 32
Duncan - around 36

Bench

Tony - Around 36
Bonner - from 16 to 28
Blair - from 10 to 25

"End of the game" line-up

Tony
Manu
RJ or Hill (whoever is playing better)
Dice, Bonner or Blair (Idem)
Duncan

[JoeTait75]

PG: Mo Williams (30)/Delonte West (15)/Daniel Gibson (3)
SG: Anthony Parker (25)/Delonte West (23)
SF: LeBron James (40)/Jamario Moon (8)
PF: Antawn Jamison (30)/J.J. Hickson (15)/Anderson Varejao (3)
C: Shaquille O'Neal (25)/Anderson Varejao (23)

Frankly, our backcourt- with the exception of Delonte, of course- is weak sauce. We'll need to avoid a team like Charlotte that can expose this weakness in the early rounds.

[Findog]

lol Earl Clark

[Findog]

lol Grant Hill
lol getting bukkaked on by Nicolas Batum when you used to be compared to Jordan
lol underachiever
lol never left the 1st round
lol 2-9
lol people thinking Grant Hill is some kind of hard working player
lol Suns

I think there's a reason Earl Clark doesn't get off the bench for Phoenix. Even if he had been capable of contributing his rookie year, it's too late for that now.

[Ghazi]

Carlisle 2nd best coach in NBA behind Larry Brown :smokin

[Findog]

Is this based off the 4 Suns games you've watched all year?

I think there's a reason JJ Barea gets more minutes than Roddy Beabois

You're talking about the 11th man on the roster who sucked ass in what little game action he saw this year, and a rookie that is completely unprepared for playoff basketball:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkea01.html

Your 11th man is not the difference between winning and losing a game, much less the series.

Barea and Beaubois are both problematic options as the backup 1. Barea because he sucks, Beaubois because he's a rookie that hasn't learned how to play the position yet. I'd like to see RB get more minutes at the 2 alongside Kidd at the expense of Terry, but both JJB and RB are sucky backup PGs.

JJB gets more backup PG minutes than Roddy because he's a veteran that had some small measure of success last year against San Antonio, whereas Roddy hasn't. Coaches pretty much always trust vets over rookies that didn't play at all in the regular season.

[TheManFromAcme]

This topic should be fun. Thats a lot of minutes for Haywood too, isnt it?

Anyway.

C: Gasol - 32 minutes, Bynum - 16 minutes
PF: Odom - 40 minutes, Gasol - 8 minutes
SF: Artest - 36 minutes, Walton - 7 minutes, Bryant - 5 minutes
SG: Bryant - 35 minutes, Brown - 8 minutes, Vujacic - 5 minutes
PG: Farmar - 24 minutes, Brown 16 minutes, Vujacic - 7 minutes 59 seconds, Fisher - 1 second

:tu

[Smooth Criminal]

Fish - 32
Kobe - 38
Artest - 40
Pau - 40
Andrew - 36
Odom - 36
Shannon - 16
Farmar - 12
Sasha - :lmao
MBenga - 49 MPG!!!

[Findog]

So based off numbers you read on a website you know just as much about it as someone who watched virtually every game this year. That's cool. I'm sure basketball reference told you about how Batum was able to get anything he wanted against the Suns last night because of how much athleticism Dudley and Hill lack, or about how EC is the only player long and athletic enough to guard Batum, or about how hasn't gotten any opportunity to prove himself this year and has been completely mis used when in the game. Yup, basketball reference filled you in on all there is to know. Ironic how you hate on John Hollinger for over using numbers.

What conclusions can you draw about the 14th overall pick that can only get garbage minutes? I know the Suns would not have won last night if you had given Hill and/or Dudley's minutes to Earl Clark. Basketball reference tells me that Clark can't shoot, can't rebound, can't protect the ball, is a decent passer, is a good shot blocker, but a bad defender overall (which is not surprising for a rookie who hasn't played meaningful minutes). Is your argument that Earl Clark now deserves a spot in the rotation at the expense of the guys who got Phoenix where they are, and by doing so that increases Phoenix's chance to win the series?

You can't give a rookie 300 minutes of garbage time and then expect him to come in and contribute in a playoff setting. We're not talking about Tyreke Evans or Brandon Jennings that are better and played starters minutes all season long. Even in the case of Roddy Beaubois you're talking about somebody who did most of his damage against lottery teams and was pretty meh against most good teams he faced.


Where have I "hated" on John Hollinger? Hollinger is right if he says that the Mavs W-L record is too high for their point differential and that their mid-season trade probably isn't going to vault them past the Lakers and Cavs. He's wrong if he insists Dallas isn't as good as Charlotte or Miami, which is what his power rankings formula says.

[Findog]

More than you can draw from numbers, proven by the fact you said he only gets garbage time minutes.

Garbage time is very difficult to draw conclusions from. You have guys out there that are disinterested (they think playing in garbage time is beneath them), guys that want to use it to shot-hunt, etc. He failed to perform even in that limited setting.


That he is more athletic than Jared Dudley and Grant Hill, therefore would defend Batum better than either one.

Clark is a rookie with a defensive rating of 111. That means he doesn't know how to play defense. JJ Barea can't play defense, Roddy Beaubois doesn't know how to play defense. Teams just shoot over JJB. With Roddy, he's out of position frequently and falls for all sorts of tricks (watched TJ Ford of all people abuse him in person earlier this year). A guy like Hill isn't quick or fleet-footed enough to win his matchup with Batum, a guy like Clark is not going to know how to D up Batum in a playoff setting. Hill is a better offensive player than Clark. You think Dudley/Hill are going to shoot 3-16 every game?



I know that Batum would not have had a huge night if Earl Clark was guarding him, and I know that Earl Clark would not have shot as bad as Dudley and Hill (a combined 3-16). How you are able to draw your conclusion is beyond me.

Dudley and Hill didn't shoot 20% from the season, and it's highly doubtful that they shoot 20% for the entire series. If they shoot their season averages, the Suns when the game. You can't isolate a one-game sample and use that as a trump card for your argument.



Basketball reference said all those things about Dragic his rookie year because the coach was a fuck munch who completely misused him, however, anyone watching the team who knows anything about basketball would have been able to see how Dragic could have contributed.

Dragic got minutes this year. He also wasn't a rookie anymore. He had a year under his belt of scrimmaging with his teammates, being mentored by Nash, etc.


Earl Clark played point forward in college and was a good off the dribble player, this year Gentry has him playing as a spot up shooter, there really was no possible way he could have misused Clark any worse.

If Clark had been given a regular spot in the rotation, he'd be ready to contribute more now. You're arguing for a rookie that hasn't done anything except wave a towel all year long to step into the rotation.




I'm going to guess you didn't watch the game seeing that you seem to think Grant Hill is some integral part of this team.

No, I watched the game. Hill has a better chance of contributing to the Suns NOW than Clark does. That doesn't make him a good player, but it makes him more worthy of minutes than Clark.



You can't give a rookie spot minutes and expect anything.

What makes you so sure that he earned those minutes on a day to day basis during the regular season? Are you in the Suns training facility day after day? With a guy with his obvious skillset that in theory the Suns could use, why is he not playing? Is it because Gentry doesn't want to win?

[Findog]

Amare giving a shit and playing for a contract >>>>>>> Carl Landry

Amare not giving a shit and going through the motions/Carl Landry: Push. In this scenario, Landry is a better defender and more committed to team goals.

[monosylab1k]

Amare half-assing everything is still better than Carl Landry.

[Findog]

Amare half-assing everything is still better than Carl Landry.

Yes, but not overwhelmingly so. If I'm a GM putting together a team and had to choose between the lineal descendant of Derrick Coleman and Carl Landry, I'll take Carl Landry, because Landry plays defense, has a much higher basketball IQ, is much tougher, doesn't whine about touches, and cares more about wins that stats. Especially when you factor in the salaries. I'd rather have the Carl Landry of the first half at that price than what Amare was giving the Suns before the All Star Break at his salary.

Of course, if it's between Amare the post-ASG beast and Carl Landry, Amare easily.

[Findog]

And given how important Amare was to the Suns success from February on, I'd say him getting owned by Marcus Camby last night was more important than Earl Clark not getting minutes over Grant Hill and Jared Dudley.

[Findog]

I didn't draw conclusions from garbage time, what I was saying is you have no idea what you're talking about if you think he only played in garbage time this year.

I didn't say he only played in garbage time this year. Did he not spend the majority of his rookie season on the bench and only getting spot/garbage minutes?


Games like this are why I see value in Clark:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200911270MIN.html

Yawn.


If you are truly saying Clark wouldn't defend Batum better than Hill and Dudley can, you either don't know jack shit about basketball or are talking out of your ass about a player you've never seen play (the likely scenario).

I say Clark is not going to contribute more on both ends of the floor combined than Hill/Dudley on a nightly basis. Would he defend Batum better? Maybe, maybe not.



When you take into account how much of a pussified sack of shit Grant Hill has been in the playoffs his entire career, and the fact Dudley has never been in the playoffs before, it's highly probable they are both non-factors. Especially Grant Hill.

The fuck?



If the Suns were ever able to do what they did during the regular season in the playoffs they wouldn't be the oldest tea in the NBA without a ring. When being unable to shoot your season average in the playoffs is a re-occuring theme with the system Phoenix runs, games like this aren't fluke bad shooting nights, they're typical playoff performances.

You're bitching and whining about the 11th man on your roster not getting 10 minutes or so a game to check Nick Batum over Grant Hill and Jared Dudley when your best player got owned by Marcus Camby. If Amare plays like he did the final two months of the season, the Suns win this game fairly easily.






What miraculous event happened that made him look completely different than he did a year ago during this amazing "year of experience". Did Steve Nash mentor him on how to play great defense or something?

You're not familiar with the phenomenon of players improving on their rookie performances? Some guys wash out of the league because they suck. Other guys generally perform better as they learn the tendencies of other players, they hone their skills, etc.



What has Grant Hill ever accomplished in the playoffs that makes him worthy of minutes.

19, 7 and 4 on 56% shooting.
23, 7 and 5 on 44% shooting.
20, 7 and 7 on 46% shooting.

If you want to argue that he's a shell of his former self, that's fine. But if you had ever watched a basketball game before 2000 or so, you'd know that he was on the cusp of greatness before he mangled his ankle. I guess that injury he suffered his final year in Detroit makes him a "pussy" as you call it.

[Findog]

:lmao yeah, I'm sure you could find tons of NBA GM's who would take Carl Landry over Amare.

Assembling an NBA roster isn't the same thing as fantasy basketball or a pickup game at Rucker Park. Would you rather have Carl Landry at $3 million a year, or Amare Stoudemire for $17 million a year when your owner tells you you can't go into luxury tax territory? Based on what Amare was doing before February, I'd rather have Landry. If Amare played like he had in the 2nd half of the season all the time, he'd be worth every penny of that $17 million.

Some team is going to give Amare the max. We'll see if this is some sort of new, mature Amare or if he's just making a contract push.

[Findog]

Yes, it was Marcus Camby guarding him one on one. It wasn't Nash and Gentry doing a terrible job finding ways to get Amare the ball in good position or Portland drawing up a great team defensive plan that involved double teaming and forcing other players to step up, nope, it was all Amare.

Camby was the primary defender while Portland mixed up their coverages. Amare wasn't nearly aggressive enough. Man you've really got a hate boner for Nash/Gentry (not that they played/coached their best games either, but jeez man.)

[FkLA]

35+ mpg for Hill, Manu, and Duncan.

30 mpg for Dice, Jefferson, and Parker.

20 mpg for Blair.

10 mpg for Temple and Bogans.

5 mpg for Bonner.

[Giuseppe]

Hey, pisspot, what's up?

WOOT!

[Findog]

Camby's defense alone isn't why Amare sucked. It's not like he didn't get any help. It's pretty hard for Amare to drop 30 when there were double teams all night.

The point is Amare's drop-off from his regular-season performance is the most important reason Phoenix lost the game, not giving Earl Clark more minutes at the expense of Jared Dudley and Grant Hill.

[Findog]

Yawn what? Yawn you have no counter point so you just type "yawn"?

He shot 6-6 in 12 minutes against a terrible Minnesota team. That means he deserves consistent minutes because of one good game?

Here, check this out:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200912140DAL.html

JJ Barea should be getting 26 minutes a game, EVERY GAME, based on this masterpiece he threw up.



Grant Hill is a proven choker who has never given two shits about winning, evident by him signing with Phoenix over a contender last off season.

Okay, guy who apparently starting watching basketball after 2000. Playing on a completely mangled ankle and jeopardizing your impending free agency because your team has no chance to do anything without you is a sign of not caring about winning. Makes perfect sense to me.


Why is it that whenever Amare plays well, it's because Steve Nash makes him, but when Amare sucks, it's because he's a lazy jungle monkey who doesn't care? You give Nash so much credit for his success, and never give him any blame for Amare's failures. I don't get it.

You'll have to direct that question to people who think Nash is the overwhelming reason Amare is as good as he is. Amare is an All-Star caliber player without Nash; he's also the beneficiary of playing with a great point guard.




No, I'm not familiar with players going from shithole scrub to potential future all star in 1 year.

Here's one example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harride01.html

Couldn't gain the trust of his coach to play meaningful minutes in his rookie year; was an integral part of his team's run to the Finals his second year.


Earl Clark has advanced past the 1st round as many times as Grant Hill as, and didn't even need to complete 1 full NBA season to do so. That's how awesome he is compared to playoff juggernaut Grant Hill.

Earl Clark is a rookie that hasn't done shit. Sorry to break it to you, but coaches are going to play veterans over rookies that only got spot duty because they trust those guys to run their sets, keep their poise and make good decisions in the pressure of the playoffs. Grant Hill was a slightly below average basketball player this year. In the limited minutes he got, Clark was a scrub. On a night to night basis, Hill/Dudley aren't going to shoot so poorly from the floor.

But what should I expect? You were crowing in the second quarter of the Dallas-San Antonio game about how "terrible" Marion was playing. 9 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks. In other words, he did his job.

[Findog]

:lmao more back pedaling. When you originally said it, salaries had nothing to do with it, you said Landry deserved an AS birth more than Amare

In January Landry did deserve an All Star berth over Amare. He was the best player on a Houston team that was surprisingly staying in the playoffs over Amare averaging 21/7 for a team that had more talent around him. It's the All Star game. It's a prestige and honor thing to get to go. I didn't say Landry deserved to make second-team all NBA over Amare, which is more about recognizing who the best players are.

Salaries always have something to do with it. We're not picking up sides at the YMCA or drafting in a fantasy basketball league.


I'm sure it's just coincidence Amare gets paid so much more than Landry. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Amare being way better than Landry, no, the salary fairy just decided to give Amare 14,000,000 more than Landry because she felt like it.

You didn't answer the question: What is a better value? Landry for $3 mil or Amare for $17 mil? If Amare plays like he did after February all the time, he easily earns that salary and it's a no-brainer. Based on his injury history, lack of bball IQ and obsession with stats, I'd be leery of giving him the max. Did a lightbulb finally turn on over his head the last three months and he "gets" it now, or is he making a contract push? We'll find out next year when he's playing for the Knicks.

[Findog]

And Dirk's drop off from the regular season is the most important reason Dallas lost to the Warriors in 2007. It had nothing to do with Josh Howard's balls shriveling up and him not stepping up to take advantage of the attention Dirk was drawing.

Dirk went from 25/9 on 50% to 19/10 on 38%. IIRC, Howard was the only Mav who maintained or bettered his season averages against the Warriors. So yes, Dirk not maintaining that 25/9 on 50% is the main reason Dallas lost.

Howard regular season - 19, 7 and 2 on 46% shooting.
Howard against the Warriors - 21, 10 and 3 on 52% shooting.


Do you think resigning with a team that most considered at the time to be a 1st round exit so you can have fun rather than sign with a contender is a sign of someone who cares about winning?

My understanding is that his wife didn't want to leave Phoenix, but I could be wrong. These guys want to win, but there are other factors involved. Jason Kidd resigned with Dallas when they were considered pretenders instead of signing with Bron-Bron in Cleveland. Does Jason Kidd not care about winning?


And yeah, I started watching basketball in 2000. I don't see how Grant Hill's career a decade ago is relevant to this Suns series.

You asked what Grant Hill had ever done in the playoffs. I answered you.



At the time Marion was playing horribly. Idk what I should expect from someone who thinks Carl Landry belongs in the same sentence as Amare Stoudemire.

Maybe you should bite your tongue until the series is over? You might be vindicated before this series is over, you might not. Just like Amare's post ASG explosion makes a comparison to Landry look silly in retrospect.


21/7 sucks. I agree. Landry was putting up worse stats so he deserved the AS birth.

I'd rather see Landry get rewarded and an invitation for keeping Houston afloat than Amare getting to go based on playing to 70% of his capabilities.




Who is a better value? Kevin Durant at his current salary, or Lebron James at his?

Durant's about to get the max when he comes off his rookie deal. Landry just had his option picked up by Sacramento if I'm not mistaken and is no longer on his rookie deal.

[timvpimp]

Yeah Findawg vs. DoK, some quality dickering I've missed so badly. :hungry:

[Findog]

Do you honestly think that's all on Dirk, or do you think some of it is on Avery Johnson and Harris/Terry for doing a terrible job finding ways to free Dirk up? Some of it is just on Dirk not having experience passing out of double teams when he's got his back to the basket, which came from Don Nelson killing his growth as a back to the basket player by never running set plays for him in the post, similar to D'antoni and Amare.


Some of its on Dirk, some of its on Avery for having Nellie coach circles around him, some of its on Terry for having an awful series and not making Golden State pay for the double teams. I guess what I'm trying to say is that whether it's Amare's fault or not that he had a subpar game against Portland in Game 1, his maintaining his regular season production is more important to the Suns than the distribution of minutes vis a vis Hill, Dudley and Clark.



Dallas was offering significantly more money than Cleveland, Boston (at the time considered a contender) and Orlando were offering the same amount as Phoenix offered.

My understanding is that Hill's wife didn't want to uproot their kids from Phoenix. Throw in the fact that he was playing for a winning team and his decision is understandable. Didn't he turn down bigger money elsewhere to come to Phoenix in the first place when they were coming off that great season in 2007 and were viewed as legitimate title threats? Did he not care about winning then? I'd say Hill's decision was more about loyalty to the franchise and appeasing his wife than anything else.

[Muser]

:corn: