Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

[spursncowboys]

MOUNT DORA — A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care "elsewhere."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2010-04/53055642.JPG

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-mount-dora-doctor-tells-patients-go-aw20100401,0,6040296,full.story

[ChumpDumper]

What a douche.

[clambake]

poor baby.

[cheguevara]

LMAO dick doctor

[florige]

:lol As Howard Stern so eloquently puts it Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh hhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! :lmao
Some Republicans are such babies!

[The Cougar]

What a douche.

actually i believe he's a doctor for men.

[spursncowboys]

:lol As Howard Stern so eloquently puts it Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh hhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! :lmao
Some Republicans are such babies!
It guess when you get money stolen from you, you don't get upset?

[ChumpDumper]

It guess when you get money stolen from you, you don't get upset?It can't be that bad if he is actively turning away patients.

[MannyIsGod]

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant: I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help

[ElNono]

I like it. You know who you're dealing with before you go in.
After all, who is interested in getting care from a guy that's more interested in politics than actually providing good care?

[ElNono]

@Manny: Yeah, I was thinking about the Hippocratic Oath...

But he says he's not turning anybody away, even if the signs begs to disagree with him.

[MannyIsGod]

He's playing word games. He's not technically turning people away but he is turning people away.

I don't think he should receive any punishment for it and I agree its his prerogative to do this but I don't know many level headed people who are going to look at this and say anything other than this guy is a shitty doctor with fucked up priorities. If he did the same telling people who voted for McCain to go away and I was a patient I would find a new doctor.

[ElNono]

He's playing word games. He's not technically turning people away but he is turning people away.

I don't think he should receive any punishment for it and I agree its his prerogative to do this but I don't know many level headed people who are going to look at this and say anything other than this guy is a shitty doctor with fucked up priorities. If he did the same telling people who voted for McCain to go away and I was a patient I would find a new doctor.

Completely agree. His head is not in healthcare, but politics.

[spursncowboys]

I like it. You know who you're dealing with before you go in.
After all, who is interested in getting care from a guy that's more interested in politics than actually providing good care?
This is going after his livelihood. It's probably more than just politics to him.

[BRHornet45]

WONDERFUL AMERICAN! THANK YOU DOCTOR CASSELL!!!

I applaud his courage to speak out against this nonsense. boo fucking hoo if some of you don't like it. he isn't obligated to assist anyone he doesn't want to and its even better because he is turning down the morons who voted for this trash. I hope more doctors do the same.

[ChumpDumper]

This is going after his livelihood. It's probably more than just politics to him.He said nothing about losing money, and he wants to lose any patients who voted for Obama.

He sure is butthurt though. I can see why you like him, SnC.

[BRHornet45]

I like it. You know who you're dealing with before you go in.
After all, who is interested in getting care from a guy that's more interested in politics than actually providing good care?

what a load of crap that is ... the guy is speaking out against this ridiculous health care bill. his opinion has absolutely nothing to do with how good of a doctor he is. what about your boy Obama? do you truly think that piece of shit means well? do you truly believe he wants what is best for you? hell no ... he doesn't give two shits. why don't you pick on him?

[ChumpDumper]

what a load of crap that is ... the guy is speaking out against this ridiculous health care bill. his opinion has absolutely nothing to do with how good of a doctor he is. what about your boy Obama? do you truly think that piece of shit means well? do you truly believe he wants what is best for you? hell no ... he doesn't give two shits. why don't you pick on him?What specifically do you not like about the bill?

[BRHornet45]

He said nothing about losing money, and he wants to lose any patients who voted for Obama.

He sure is butthurt though. I can see why you like him, SnC.

son who cares if he doesn't want to treat Obama voters. he ISN'T turning them away. ...... either way though I don't blame him. the majority of people who voted for Obama are freeloaders and penny pinchers with a ridiculous sense of entitlement anyways. I would love to see the political affiliation for all of his clients who he has to take to court in order to pay their bills. I guarantee you they are overwhelmingly Democratic.

[BRHornet45]

What specifically do you not like about the bill?

son just like the majority of Americans, there are countless things that I don't like about it. however for me personally, I am a small business owner and already pay an absolutely ridiculous amount of taxes to begin with. this bill will personally effect not only me, but my employees as well because I will eventually have to let many of them go.

[ChumpDumper]

son who cares if he doesn't want to treat Obama voters. he ISN'T turning them away.Son, he doesn't want their business, so he can't be doing that badly, son.


...... either way though I don't blame him. the majority of people who voted for Obama are freeloaders and penny pinchers with a ridiculous sense of entitlement anyways. I would love to see the political affiliation for all of his clients who he has to take to court in order to pay their bills. I guarantee you they are overwhelmingly Democratic.Son, I guarantee you just made that up, son.

[ChumpDumper]

son just like the majority of Americans, there are countless things that I don't like about it. however for me personally, I am a small business owner and already pay an absolutely ridiculous amount of taxes to begin with. this bill will personally effect not only me, but my employees as well because I will eventually have to let many of them go.Son, so you can't say anything specific, son.

Son, you're pathetic, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, he doesn't want their business, so he can't be doing that badly, son.

Son, I guarantee you just made that up, son.

son and I guarantee you voted for Obama because it was the cool thing to do.

[DarrinS]

LMAO at "Changes to your health care begin right now -- not in four years."

[ChumpDumper]

son and I guarantee you voted for Obama because it was the cool thing to do.Son, as usual you are wrong, son.

Son, I voted for McCain, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, so you can't say anything specific, son.

Son, you're pathetic, son.

how much more specific do you want you sissy little bitch you? do you have trouble reading and comprehending?

[BRHornet45]

Son, as usual you are wrong, son.

Son, I voted for McCain, son.

LMAO good try

[ChumpDumper]

how much more specific do you want you sissy little bitch you? do you have trouble reading and comprehending?Son, you don't know what the word "specific" means, son.

Son, you're an idiot, son.

[ChumpDumper]

LMAO good trySon, it's true, son.

Son, sorry you're such an idiot, son.

Son, let the grown-ups talk, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, you don't know what the word "specific" means, son.

Son, you're an idiot, son.

son you're the Obama supporter not me.

[ChumpDumper]

son you're the Obama supporter not me.Son, you're the one who doesn't know what "specific" means, not me, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, you're the one who doesn't know what "specific" means, not me, son.

son you're the one who has trouble reading and comprehending .... LOL at internet tough guy. bitch made faggot lolzzz

[Stringer_Bell]

Son, as usual you are wrong, son.

Son, I voted for McCain, son.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

In other news, this doctor is probably just making a statement to look cool and all his patients either weren't stupid enough to vote for anyone or voted for Mccain. Win/win situation for Dr. Douche!

The Hippocratic Oath has no place in this discussion. kthxbye!

[BRHornet45]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

In other news, this doctor is probably just making a statement to look cool and all his patients either weren't stupid enough to vote for anyone or voted for Mccain. Win/win situation for Dr. Douche!

The Hippocratic Oath has no place in this discussion. kthxbye!

lol son Chump boy didn't vote for McCain.

[ChumpDumper]

son you're the one who has trouble reading and comprehending .... LOL at internet tough guy. bitch made faggot lolzzzSon, you are getting all angry because your ignorance has been exposed, son.

LOL son, claiming you own a small business when you don't even know what the word "specific" means, son.

[ChumpDumper]

lol son Chump boy didn't vote for McCain.lol son, yes I did, son.

[spursncowboys]

son you're the one who has trouble reading and comprehending .... LOL at internet tough guy. bitch made faggot lolzzz
QumDumper isn't worth replies. I just ignore him.

[ChumpDumper]

son just like the majority of Americans, there are countless things that I don't like about it. however for me personally, I am a small business owner and already pay an absolutely ridiculous amount of taxes to begin with. this bill will personally effect not only me, but my employees as well because I will eventually have to let many of them go.Son, how much are your taxes going to up, son?

Son, surely as a responsible and highly successful small business owner, you have already run the numbers and know what you are going to pay and how many of your many employees you have to let go, son.

Son, give us some numbers, son.

[ChumpDumper]

QumDumper isn't worth replies. I just ignore him.You whine, then run away from questions like a pussy and then whine about it some more.

[BRHornet45]

QumDumper isn't worth replies. I just ignore him.

son I know this, but its still fun getting him worked up lol

[ChumpDumper]

son I know this, but its still fun getting him worked up lolSon, you're the one getting worked up, son lol.

[BRHornet45]

Son, you're the one getting worked up, son lol.

awwww

son you claim to have voted for McCain, yet you really voted for Lord Barack. also son you claim to be a Spurs fan, but really you are a Mavericks fan. you have to be a Mavs fan with such a bitch made attitude like yours.

[ChumpDumper]

awwww

son you claim to have voted for McCain, yet you really voted for Lord Barack. also son you claim to be a Spurs fan, but really you are a Mavericks fan. you have to be a Mavs fan with such a bitch made attitude like yours.awwww

Son, I voted for McCain. Accept that and move on with your life, son.

Son, I am a spurfan. Accept that and move on with your life, son.

Son, I can't help but notice you haven't mentioned anything specific about the heath care bill you don't like, son.

Son, I also notice you haven't said how much your taxes are going up due to this bill for your thriving small business from which you are taking valuable time to post on a message board, son.

[BRHornet45]

sons where is that butt-hurt report form for Chumpy above?

LOLZZZ at Chumpy poking fun at others for posting on here whenever he has 50,000 post.

[ChumpDumper]

sons where is that butt-hurt report form for Chumpy above?

LOLZZZ at Chumpy poking fun at others for posting on here whenever he has 50,000 post.Son, I don't post from work, son.

LOLZZZ at your trying to avoid real questions like the pussy you are, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, I don't post from work, son.

LOLZZZ at your trying to avoid real questions like the pussy you are, son.

lol son you must really be getting worked up over there! calm down son its only the internetz

[ChumpDumper]

lol son you must really be getting worked up over there! calm down son its only the internetzlol son you have already proved you are getting worked up over there, son.

Son, how much are your taxes going up due to this bill, son?

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol son you must really be getting worked up over there! calm down son its only the internetz

looks like you got defeated in this thread

[BRHornet45]

looks like you got defeated in this thread

son not quite. Chumpy boy wants me to break down every last detail for him and I'm not doing it. he is a big boy, but obviously doesn't understand that this bill will effect small business.

[ChumpDumper]

son not quite. Chumpy boy wants me to break down every last detail for him and I'm not doing it. he is a big boy, but obviously doesn't understand that this bill will effect small business.Son, it's quite easy, son.

Son, all you have to do is say how much your taxes are going to go up due to this bill, son.

Son, as a responsible, successful small business owner, you should already know how this will affect you, son.

Son, it's ok if you don't know and are just talking out of you ass in an attempt to look like you know more than you actually do, son.

Son, after all it's just the internets, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, it's quite easy, son.

Son, all you have to do is say how much your taxes are going to go up due to this bill, son.

Son, as a responsible, successful small business owner, you should already know how this will affect you, son.

Son, it's ok if you don't know and are just talking out of you ass in an attempt to look like you know more than you actually do, son.

Son, after all it's just the internets, son.

son LOL at you! the joke is on you son.

[ChumpDumper]

son LOL at you! the joke is on you son.Son LOL at you, son! Son, the joke IS you, son.

Son, you probably don't even own a small business from which you can post made up shit on the internets, son.

[SnakeBoy]

I don't know a private practice doctor who doesn't basically feel the same way. None of them would put up such a sign but a good percentage of them are no longer accepting assignment. You want their services, you pay and then you can worry about getting reimbursed.

[EmptyMan]

lol, that's awesome

[BRHornet45]

Son LOL at you, son! Son, the joke IS you, son.

Son, you probably don't even own a small business from which you can post made up shit on the internets, son.

LOLZZZ son! believe what you want! keep busing those tables though!

[BRHornet45]

I don't know a private practice doctor who doesn't basically feel the same way. None of them would put up such a sign but a good percentage of them are no longer accepting assignment. You want their services, you pay and then you can worry about getting reimbursed.

this

[ChumpDumper]

LOLZZZ son! believe what you want! keep busing those tables though!LOLZZZ son! Son, believe what you want, son. Son, keep changing out those urinal cakes though, son!

[BRHornet45]

LOLZZZ son! Son, believe what you want, son. Son, keep changing out those urinal cakes, son!

lol son ... the dick is always on your mind!

[ChumpDumper]

thisSon, you didn't say anything about that, son. Son, quit trying to piggy back on someone who is obviously smarter than you, son. Son, you said your taxes were going to go up, son. Son, tell us how much your taxes are going up, son.

[mookie2001]

Damn hornetfan just got dumped on like no other

actually like dozens of others but still it was so bad he called chump a fag and internet tough guy for some reason

Rofl real original

[ChumpDumper]

lol son ... the dick is always on your mind!lol son ... the urinal cake is always in your hand, son.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn hornetfan just got dumped on like no other

actually like dozens of others but still it was so bad he called chump a fag and internet tough guy for some reason

Rofl real originalTrue, I like your insults better.

[BRHornet45]

Son, you didn't say anything about that, son. Son, quit trying to piggy back on someone who is obviously smarter than you, son. Son, you said your taxes were going to go up, son. Son, tell us how much your taxes are going up, son.

son all you ever do is piggy back on this board ... and probably in more ways than one. LOL at you getting so worked up over the fact that I won't give you my personal information! son one day if you ever start to make REAL money, then you will understand.

[ChumpDumper]

son all you ever do is piggy back on this board ... and probably in more ways than one. LOL at you getting so worked up over the fact that I won't give you my personal information! son one day if you ever start to make REAL money, then you will understand.Son, it's obvious you don't make any money, son. Son, anyone who does would know exactly what this bill would mean to him, son. Son, you just repeated some shit you heard Glenn Beck say while posting from work and now you are trying like hell to change the subject to me to avoid being exposed as ignorant, son.

[BRHornet45]

lots of Obama votes on this board. the John Stewart and Stephen Colbert pimp hands are strong

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm surprised it took this long for a dead ender to start this thread..the doctor can do what he wants i don't care

[ChumpDumper]

lots of Obama votes on this board. the John Stewart and Stephen Colbert pimp hands are strongSon, your attempts to change the subject are transparent and lame, son.

[Blake]

Son, I voted for McCain, son.

the "holy shit I didn't see that coming" post of the day

[BRHornet45]

Son, it's obvious you don't make any money, son. Son, anyone who does would know exactly what this bill would mean to him, son. Son, you just repeated some shit you heard Glenn Beck say while and now you are trying like hell to change the subject to me to avoid being exposed as ignorant, son.

lmao you're the ignorant one son! You are asking me to give you EXACT amounts/percentage of what my personal taxes will raise. I'm not telling you shit. I know exactly how they will be effected and that's all that matters. why don't you tell me how this bill will effect you? oh wait nevermind ... I'm sure a free loader like yourself will benefit from it.

son you don't hear anyone else around here or on your favorite news channels giving exact numbers either. its none of your business how much someone makes or how much someone's taxes will be raised.

[ChumpDumper]

the "holy shit I didn't see that coming" post of the dayI live in Texas. It's not like an Obama vote would have mattered.

[Stringer_Bell]

I'd probably be pissed off if I needed a urologist and he didn't like my political opinion. I'd find another real quick!

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know a private practice doctor who doesn't basically feel the same way. None of them would put up such a sign but a good percentage of them are no longer accepting assignment. You want their services, you pay and then you can worry about getting reimbursed.

Well, they're going to lose out on a lot of business then. There is a reason that doctors take insurance today and its not done out of good will or any warm fuzzy feelings. Its because that is how they get paid.

[BRHornet45]

I live in Texas. It's not like an Obama vote would have mattered.

dude stop lying! you know damn well you're an Obama supporter.

[George Gervin's Afro]

how long berfore fox news starts whoring this story?

[ChumpDumper]

lmao you're the ignorant one son! You are asking me to give you EXACT amounts/percentage of what my personal taxes will raise. I'm not telling you shit.Son, no -- I'm asking for a ballpark figure. You can base it on your most recent year of income, son. Son, any real small business owner would already know, son.


why don't you tell me how this bill will effect you? oh wait nevermind ... I'm sure a free loader like yourself will benefit from it.Son, it won't affect me from what I can see, son. Son, I already pay for health insurance, son.


son you don't hear anyone else around here or on your favorite news channels giving exact numbers either. its none of your business how much someone makes or how much someone's taxes will be raised.Son, just say you made everything up, son. Son, it will save you some future embarrassment, son.

[Winehole23]

lol son ... the urinal cake is always in your hand, son.:rollin

[BRHornet45]

how long berfore fox news starts whoring this story?

hopefully soon and more doctors follow his lead ... but I would expect CNN to pick this up first.

[ChumpDumper]

dude stop lying! you know damn well you're an Obama supporter.Son, I'm not lying. Son, stop you're meltdown, son.

[Blake]

I live in Texas. It's not like an Obama vote would have mattered.

True, but why vote at all?

In 2004, if I had it to do again, I would have held and not given my vote to either douchebag, just out of principle.

[BRHornet45]

Son, I'm not lying. Son, stop you're meltdown, son.

son what do you do for a living and how much money do you make in a year?

[ChumpDumper]

True, but why vote at all?I lost a bet with whottt.

[ploto]

Any physician who no longer wants to care for a patient with whom he has established a relationship should notify said patient individually in writing through registered mail of his intent to no longer care for said person and to advise that person to seek care elsewhere. A sign on a door is improper.

[MannyIsGod]

lol son ... the urinal cake is always in your hand, son.

:lmao

[Blake]

I lost a bet with whottt.

oh noze. how?

:td

[ChumpDumper]

son what do you do for a living and how much money do you make in a year?Son, not much and not much, son. Son, nice attempt at changing the subject to me again, son. Son, I wasn't the one making up shit about owning a small business and paying higher taxes, son.

[mookie2001]

I'm pretty sure Jon Stewart invented not being a neocon

[ChumpDumper]

oh noze. how?

:tdI thought he actually had some money.

[Blake]

I thought he actually had some money.

welp, the good thing is that in Texas every vote counts very little.

[ploto]

The average salary for a urologist is close to $300,0000 per year. Boo-frickin-hoo for this guy.

[Blake]

The average salary for a urologist is close to $300,0000 per year. Boo-frickin-hoo for this guy.

that and he's 56.

I'd be more impressed with the sign if he were fresh out of med school with students loans to pay back.

[ChumpDumper]

He might have to cut back to two mistresses.

[BRHornet45]

Son, not much and not much, son. Son, nice attempt at changing the subject to me again, son. Son, I wasn't the one making up shit about owning a small business and paying higher taxes, son.

LMAO!!!!! son you ignorant, hypocritical MORON!!! you just walked right into that one! ... I gotta admit, I thought you would be smarter than that, but thanks for falling for my setup!

pot meet kettle ... son you have been accusing me of lying because I won't give you exact amounts of what my personal taxes will be raised, yet you JUST DID THE SAME THING!!! I asked you how much money you make in a year and you completely dodged the question and didn't give me any detailed information. there is no difference in you asking me about my personal taxes and me asking you about your personal income.

son the truth is its none of my business how much you make in a year or how much in taxes you pay, just like its none of YOUR business how much I make or how much my taxes will be raised. welcome to school son, I hope you took notes. God bless

[ChumpDumper]

LMAO!!!!! son you ignorant, hypocritical MORON!!! you just walked right into that one! ... I gotta admit, I thought you would be smarter than that, but thanks for falling for my setup!

pot meet kettle ... son you have been accusing me of lying because I won't give you exact amounts of what my personal taxes will be raised, yet you JUST DID THE SAME THING!!! I asked you how much money you make in a year and you completely dodged the question and didn't give me any detailed information.

son the truth is its none of my business how much you make in a year or how much in taxes you pay, just like its none of YOUR business how much I make or how much my taxes will be raised. welcome to school son, I hope you took notes. God blessSon, I've been working as a sound engineer the past couple of years. The hours and pay vary greatly. I make anywhere from $25 to $100 an hour depending on the job. I'm at the point where I'm actually making a living off it and probably should decide if I want to make it my living by actively seeking work, which to this point I have not been doing as I kind of like the three or four day weeks I have been working.

So what do you do and how much do you make, son?

[BRHornet45]

Son, I've been working as a sound engineer the past couple of years. The hours and pay vary greatly. I make anywhere from $25 to $100 an hour depending on the job. I'm at the point where I'm actually making a living off it and probably should decide if I want to make it my living by actively seeking work, which to this point I have not been doing.

So what do you do and how much do you make, son?

son LOL that was quick. why the change of heart to tell me your personal income? hmmm ....

[ChumpDumper]

son LOL that was quick. why the change of heart to tell me your personal income? hmmm ....Son, LOL I figured you would pull this shit and I know everyone wants to know everything about me, son.

Son, you seem to be out of bullets now, son. Son, what do you do and how much do you make, son?

[BRHornet45]

Son, LOL I figured you would pull this shit and I know everyone wants to know everything about me, son.

Son, you seem to be out of bullets now, son. What do you do and how much do you make?

son you're just upset because I caught you dodging a question just like you have been accusing me of doing. dude its none of my business what you make, nor is it any of your business what I make. I don't care, but for some reason you felt the need to accuse me of lying.

[Mr. Peabody]

I thought the mandate didn't apply to small businesses unless they have more than 50 employees. Below that number of employees, any obligation to provide insurance is like it was before the bill.

[BRHornet45]

I thought the mandate didn't apply to small businesses unless they have more than 50 employees. Below that number of employees, any obligation to provide insurance is like it was before the bill.

you are correct son

[ChumpDumper]

son you're just upset because I caught you dodging a question just like you have been accusing me of doing. dude its none of my business what you make, nor is it any of your business what I make. I don't care, but for some reason you felt the need to accuse me of lying.Son, I will continue to accuse you of lying because you are a liar, son.

Son, don't front, you do care about me, son. Son, you just spent two hours from your alleged small business running time arguing with me on the internets trying to find out what I do and how much I make, son. Son, now you got it and you are still whining about it, son.

[BRHornet45]

Son, I will continue to accuse you of lying because you are a liar, son.

Son, don't front, you do care about me, son. Son, you just spent two hours from your alleged small business running time arguing with me on the internets trying to find out what I do and how much I make, son. Son, now you got it and you are still whining about it, son.

pathetic dude. call me a liar if it makes you feel better! lol ... oh and by the way, its good Friday we are closed ;)

[ChumpDumper]

pathetic dude. call me a liar if it makes you feel better! lol ... oh and by the way, its good Friday we are closed ;)Son, if you are ashamed to state your livelihood, that's your business, son. Urinal cakes are necessary and somebody has to change them ;)

[DarrinS]

LMAO at the petty bitchfest between two posters in this thread.

[ChumpDumper]

LMAO at the petty bitchfest between two posters in this thread.LMAO at DarrinS trying to accuse someone else of petty bitchiness.

[DarrinS]

LMAO at DarrinS trying to accuse someone else of petty bitchiness.

^this

[ChumpDumper]

LMAO at DarrinS trying to accuse someone else of petty bitchiness.


^this
Exactly. Glad you agree with me.

[ElNono]

This is going after his livelihood. It's probably more than just politics to him.

He's probably not going to get paid as much as he wants, and that's all it amounts to. Turning away patients won't fix that, so yeah, it's entirely politics and posturing, and nothing else.

[boutons_deux]

"What a douche.

actually i believe he's a doctor for men."

ok then, "What an enema"

[Spursmania]

Bleeding lib commies are a sad poor bunch. Wanting freebies for everybody on someone else's dime. Please go to Europe and smile as you wait in line for health care.

Shitting on Doctors as if they are the cause of the problems-it's pretty disgusting. No doctor anywhere should be forced to care for anybody. They didn't go to med school to give away free services at the poor clinics. It's their choice to make a living and to treat whom they want because this is a free country despite what you bleeding libs are trying to do.

Let's see you numbnuts try to get into med school much less graduate and actually become Doctors then work for the government for 35,000 a year for 3 years as you train. Obama rags on all the successful people and businesses while the kool-aid drinking libs take it all in and adore him as if America was built on this type of lunacy.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

:rollin

[mookie2001]

Poor poor doctors


this board thinks doctors are pushing Kia sephias and feeding their kids 3 ramens a day because of socialism

[SnakeBoy]

Well, they're going to lose out on a lot of business then. There is a reason that doctors take insurance today and its not done out of good will or any warm fuzzy feelings. Its because that is how they get paid.

No they're really not going to lose anything. My wife's practice stopped taking assignment a long time ago and the appointment wait time for new patients who want to see her is 7 weeks. Good doctors already have more work than they can possibly do. Besides, doctors fees really aren't that expensive and most people can afford to pay them out of pocket.


Any physician who no longer wants to care for a patient with whom he has established a relationship should notify said patient individually in writing through registered mail of his intent to no longer care for said person and to advise that person to seek care elsewhere. A sign on a door is improper.

this

[ploto]

I am sure this has nothing to do with this fact:


Cassell, whose lawyer wife, Leslie Campione, has declared herself a Republican candidate for Lake County commissioner...

[Wild Cobra]

Hmmmm...

Looks dark out.

A sign posted the night before 4/1...

Possible significance?

[Blake]

Poor poor doctors


this board thinks doctors are pushing Kia sephias and feeding their kids 3 ramens a day because of socialism

luckily for these poor doctors, their kids will now have healthcare

[MannyIsGod]

No they're really not going to lose anything. My wife's practice stopped taking assignment a long time ago and the appointment wait time for new patients who want to see her is 7 weeks. Good doctors already have more work than they can possibly do. Besides, doctors fees really aren't that expensive and most people can afford to pay them out of pocket.

Oh well then I guess most doctors ARE taking insurance out of the goodness of their hearts and the warm fuzzy feeling they get.

The expensive of doctor fees is relative. You may not find the 100 bucks for a checkup expensive, but for most families they'd much rather spend 10-20 on a copay then 100 dollars because that shit IS expensive when you add it up 5 times or so for an average family.

In any event, I agree that good doctors have a luxury of not taking insurance. There are doctors out there who can see one patient a day and make a lot of money doing nothing more. This certainly isn't the case with the vast majority of doctors.

And fuck, if shit is so good for them why are we supposed to feel sorry for them again?

[whottt]

I lost a bet with whottt.

Yes but you didn't join me for the Klan meeting and crossburning so it wasn't like you truly voted Republican IMHO.

Anyway, I'll let you get back to you convo with Blake since I wouldn't want to disturb a valuable exchange beteen elites who get Obma :tu

[whottt]

It probably didn't hurt the Doc's business...

So tell me libs, at what point do you think his income will be more in line with your approval?

[ChumpDumper]

It probably didn't hurt the Doc's business...

So tell me libs, at what point do you think his income will be more in line with your approval?If his business isn't hurt, there is no issue.

[SnakeBoy]

And fuck, if shit is so good for them why are we supposed to feel sorry for them again?

We're not. We're supposed to vilify successful people and feel sorry for lazy fat ass alcoholic high school dropouts who can't pay for shit.

[spursncowboys]

We're not. We're supposed to vilify successful people and feel sorry for lazy fat ass alcoholic high school dropouts who can't pay for shit.

:bling

[Ignignokt]

Oh well then I guess most doctors ARE taking insurance out of the goodness of their hearts and the warm fuzzy feeling they get.

The expensive of doctor fees is relative. You may not find the 100 bucks for a checkup expensive, but for most families they'd much rather spend 10-20 on a copay then 100 dollars because that shit IS expensive when you add it up 5 times or so for an average family.

In any event, I agree that good doctors have a luxury of not taking insurance. There are doctors out there who can see one patient a day and make a lot of money doing nothing more. This certainly isn't the case with the vast majority of doctors.

And fuck, if shit is so good for them why are we supposed to feel sorry for them again?


Then again you're totally cool with voting for Obama who protects lazy incompetent Union workers who earn close to a 100 grand, produce nowhere near the quality of work a doctor does, and on top of that are excluded from the Cadillac tax.

So when did the idea of taking away income (private property) become a principle of when this country was founded?

Why do we villify the motives of private practice doctors whose work is tied to their worth, something that was a romanticized idea pre Henry Ford's concept of removing the value of a product fromt the worker. Instead, you have done nothing but cheerlead a bill which forces americans to enrich corporate insurance companies who now will benefit from all this.

We lost,

The doctors lost,

People who put effort into studying medicine lost.

But the insurance companies and the federal govt won.

Again why are you laughing at yourselves?

[Ignignokt]

Poor poor doctors


this board thinks doctors are pushing Kia sephias and feeding their kids 3 ramens a day because of socialism

You should only feel sorry for the constitution.

[ChumpDumper]

Then again you're totally cool with voting for Obama who protects lazy incompetent Union workers who earn close to a 100 grand, produce nowhere near the quality of work a doctor does, and on top of that are excluded from the Cadillac tax.

So when did the idea of taking away income (private property) become a principle of when this country was founded?

Why do we villify the motives of private practice doctors whose work is tied to their worth, something that was a romanticized idea pre Henry Ford's concept of removing the value of a product fromt the worker. Instead, you have done nothing but cheerlead a bill which forces americans to enrich corporate insurance companies who now will benefit from all this.

We lost,

The doctors lost,

People who put effort into studying medicine lost.

But the insurance companies and the federal govt won.

Again why are you laughing at yourselves?How much did you personally lose?

How much did doctors lose?

[Blake]

Yes but you didn't join me for the Klan meeting and crossburning so it wasn't like you truly voted Republican IMHO.

Anyway, I'll let you get back to you convo with Blake since I wouldn't want to disturb a valuable exchange beteen elites who get Obma :tu

I'll let you get back to your crossburning :tu

[boutons_deux]

The costs of doctors are huge component in health care costs, so if costs are to come down, then doctors revenues have to come down. US doctors make 2x what doctors make in other countries.

Same with BigPharma charging the USA 2x what BigPharma charges other countries for the same drugs. Americans are subsidizing the drugs for "socialist" countries with national health insurance and systems.

Americans are their own worst enemy, leading pathogenic lifestyles (no exercise) and over-eating corporate food-like shit. Probably 50% of the national health bill is from (over) treating and over charging for lifestyle diseases.

I don't really expect any "bending the curve" upward on Americans taking better care of themselves, not any "bending the curve" downward on rip-off doctors and insurance companies.

[Oh, Gee!!]

this is front-page news! right, darrin? this should be the lead-in on CBS!!

[Trainwreck2100]

I just do fucking get it, he's a private company. And if an obama voter walks in he still has to help them. So why is the fucking news

[whottt]

I'll let you get back to your crossburning :tu

www.spursreport.com :tu

[Blake]

www.spursreport.com :tu

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10959/ButtHurt.jpg

:tu

[jack sommerset]

I know everyone wants to know everything about me.

I don't but I do know you are very very insecure and petty. This thread is another example of it.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't but I do know you are very very insecure and petty. This thread is another example of it.Yeah, that's why you post about me all the time instead of the subject.

:lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

jackiesommerset the victim

[ChumpDumper]

Someone was mean to him on the internets!

[spursncowboys]

I don't but I do know you are very very insecure and petty. This thread is another example of it.
definitely

[ChumpDumper]

definitely
:rollin

You guys need to form a support group.

[exstatic]

:rollin

You guys need to form a support group.

They have one. It's called the GOP.

[Ignignokt]

How much did you personally lose?

How much did doctors lose?

My personal liberty, the right to not have to buy insurance and instead pay out of pocket. That's like biden would say, "A big fucking deal."

How much did doctors lose? Money, and the degradation of the value of their work, money to hire more staff to deal with the new paperwork, and more stress and headaches in trying to deal with the feds.

[Ignignokt]

They have one. It's called the GOP.

Don't you have the hidden fat forums?

[Winehole23]

What hidden fat forums?

[ChumpDumper]

My personal liberty, the right to not have to buy insurance and instead pay out of pocket. That's like biden would say, "A big fucking deal."Do you currently have health insurance?

Do you really pay out of pocket?

Yes or no.


How much did doctors lose? Money, and the degradation of the value of their work, money to hire more staff to deal with the new paperwork, and more stress and headaches in trying to deal with the feds.Tell me how much money the doctors are losing.

Be specific.

Don't just make shit up.

[mookie2001]

I own a small business!

[Ignignokt]

Do you currently have health insurance?

Do you really pay out of pocket?

Yes or no.

Tell me how much money the doctors are losing.

Be specific.

Don't just make shit up.



1st,... yes, I have payed out of pocket for my doctors visit and for one emergency visit, and hopefully i won't have to in the near future since i love being healthy.

2, You've demonstrated yourself to be a moron in this thread by asking how specific amount of money doctors will lose implying that they all receive the same income and salary, all have the same situation. Just like we could never predict the actual cost of medicare until hindsight, the same can be said for how much a certain bill will would specifically cost someone.
Thing is that doctors are complaining, my family doctor aswell that this bill is going to hurt their offices and make them hire more staff to deal with more govt backed insured patients who will abuse the system.

[Ignignokt]

:rollin

You guys need to form a support group.

Do you have family members in guantanamo?


Are you in guantanamo?

Then Shut the fuck up!

:Chumpdumper tactic

[Ignignokt]

I own a small business!

I don't need my rights so you don't either.

[George Gervin's Afro]

1st,... yes, I have payed out of pocket for my doctors visit and for one emergency visit, and hopefully i won't have to in the near future since i love being healthy.

2, You've demonstrated yourself to be a moron in this thread by asking how specific amount of money doctors will lose implying that they all receive the same income and salary, all have the same situation. Just like we could never predict the actual cost of medicare until hindsight, the same can be said for how much a certain bill will would specifically cost someone.
Thing is that doctors are complaining, my family doctor aswell that this bill is going to hurt their offices and make them hire more staff to deal with more govt backed insured patients who will abuse the system.

So if you don't know what the repurcussions will be, then how can you claim they will be harmful? I think that's chump's point. If you are going to claim that doctors will lose money then you should be able to prove it with something other than your biased opinion.

[Ignignokt]

So if you don't know what the repurcussions will be, then how can you claim they will be harmful? I think that's chump's point. If you are going to claim that doctors will lose money then you should be able to prove it with something other than your biased opinion.

What constitutes proof? a chart? they don't make those on the internets. Do you want me to ask a doctor to provide his w40 information, or would you rather me list examples of how the bill would require doctors to hire staff to deal with federal paperwork, and be forced out of options to give to their patients like i just did previously.

His questions are stupid.

And that's not his only point. His point is that if you're not personally affected then you have no ground to gripe about. THat's like saying if you're not black or a minority you shouldn't give a shit about racial discrimination.
Quit defending Chumpdumper, he's the fucktard.

[Blake]

Just like we could never predict the actual cost of medicare until hindsight, the same can be said for how much a certain bill will would specifically cost someone.

so nobody really knows that it will cost doctors more money, it's just a guess on their/your part.


Thing is that doctors are complaining, my family doctor aswell that this bill is going to hurt their offices and make them hire more staff to deal with more govt backed insured patients who will abuse the system.

So they will be losing money because more patients will be walking in the door?

[Blake]

So if you don't know what the repurcussions will be, then how can you claim they will be harmful? I think that's chump's point. If you are going to claim that doctors will lose money then you should be able to prove it with something other than your biased opinion.

eh, beat me to it.

[Blake]

What constitutes proof? a chart? they don't make those on the internets. Do you want me to ask a doctor to provide his w40 information, or would you rather me list examples of how the bill would require doctors to hire staff to deal with federal paperwork, and be forced out of options to give to their patients like i just did previously.


if you are going to claim "they will lose money" then how hard is it to explain exactly how?


And that's not his only point. His point is that if you're not personally affected then you have no ground to gripe about. THat's like saying if you're not black or a minority you shouldn't give a shit about racial discrimination.
Quit defending Chumpdumper, he's the fucktard.

It's posts like these that keep me coming back to the poly forum :tu

[George Gervin's Afro]

What constitutes proof? a chart? they don't make those on the internets. Do you want me to ask a doctor to provide his w40 information, or would you rather me list examples of how the bill would require doctors to hire staff to deal with federal paperwork, and be forced out of options to give to their patients like i just did previously.

His questions are stupid.

And that's not his only point. His point is that if you're not personally affected then you have no ground to gripe about. THat's like saying if you're not black or a minority you shouldn't give a shit about racial discrimination.
Quit defending Chumpdumper, he's the fucktard.

so then stop making unsubstantiated claims.. easy to fix

[Ignignokt]

so nobody really knows that it will cost doctors more money, it's just a guess on their/your part.



So they will be losing money because more patients will be walking in the door?

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA606.html

linky here.

Doctors are saying that Obamacare is gonna bring more taxes, more reg, decreased pay and a higher workload.

[Ignignokt]

so then stop making unsubstantiated claims.. easy to fix

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA606.html

But i'm not.

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA606.html

But i'm not.

MATT PATTERSON
POLICY ANALYST

Matt Patterson is an author and analyst whose work has appeared in The Washington Post, The New York Post, FoxNews.com, and National Review Online, among others. In 2009 he was named a National Review Institute Washington Fellow.

From 2008-2009, Matt served as research assistant to Charles Krauthammer. In the 2008 Republican primary race, he served as policy communications coordinator and a state political coordinator for the Rudy Giuliani presidential campaign.

Matt is an honors graduate of Columbia University, where he studied ancient Greek and Latin, and has performed across the U.S. and abroad as an award winning sleight-of-hand artist. He grew up in Colorado.


Oh he is an objetive source....




About Us

The National Center for Public Policy Research is a communications and research foundation supportive of a strong national defense and dedicated to providing free market solutions to today's public policy problems. We believe that the principles of a free market, individual liberty and personal responsibility provide the greatest hope for meeting the challenges facing America in the 21st century.



So it's a biased right wing blogger...

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA606.html

But i'm not.
Are you really trying to reason with George?

You'll have better luck with George of the Jungle.

[Ignignokt]

But talk to older doctors. Many will tell you that they intend to retire as soon as it is financially feasible. They are tired of fighting for insurance reimbursement − from private insurers, and especially from Medicare and Medicaid.

More physicians are opting out of Medicare. They endure endless resubmissions of claims, endless denials and endless appeals − and even demands for refunds months later. Question: How much of the Medicare “waste, fraud and abuse” that President Obama talks about actually represents valid claims for needed treatment that were arbitrarily denied?

If you think dealing with an insurance company can be maddening, try dealing with Medicare. When an insurance company denies a claim, you can go to court or appeal to your state insurance commissioner. Your chances are slim, but at least there is a chance. But where do you go when the federal government denies your claim?

About one-third of physicians say they will leave practice if ObamaCare is enacted. Some may not carry out their threat. But others, who do not now intend to leave medicine, will do so if they find a government-run system unbearable.

I guess proof of what they are dealing with now, Medicare, and late reimbursements from Private insurances, then a public expansion of both would be worse off for them. But these are the guys that deal with this shit everyday.

I don't see how much more evidence you want.

http://stolinsky.opinioneditorial.com/2010/03/14/obamacare-fewer-doctors-more-patients-rationed-care/

[George Gervin's Afro]

Are you really trying to reason with George?

You'll have better luck with George of the Jungle.

wait I am going to some left wing blog to respond... :lmao

[Ignignokt]

MATT PATTERSON
POLICY ANALYST

Matt Patterson is an author and analyst whose work has appeared in The Washington Post, The New York Post, FoxNews.com, and National Review Online, among others. In 2009 he was named a National Review Institute Washington Fellow.

From 2008-2009, Matt served as research assistant to Charles Krauthammer. In the 2008 Republican primary race, he served as policy communications coordinator and a state political coordinator for the Rudy Giuliani presidential campaign.

Matt is an honors graduate of Columbia University, where he studied ancient Greek and Latin, and has performed across the U.S. and abroad as an award winning sleight-of-hand artist. He grew up in Colorado.


Oh he is an objetive source....






So it's a biased right wing blogger...


He qouted a survey of doctors, he didn't make the survey.

But i'm rigth wing biased, so i guess my own personal testimony wouldn't be enough.

don't be retarded.

[Ignignokt]

If they take effect, physicians' fees will be slashed 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients will be cut by $1.3 billion. Tens of thousands of doctors and thousands of health care institutions -- hospitals, hospices, outpatient clinics and such -- will refuse to treat Medicare patients.

Entire cities will be without one doctor in important specialties who will take care of the elderly on Medicare. Particularly in fields like G.I. care or arthritic and joint pain, doctors will simply refuse to accept the low reimbursement rates they are being offered and hospitals will refuse all but emergency care to Medicare patients. In effect, the elderly will experience a doctors' strike against Medicare patients.

Congress, faced with this massive revolt coming right on the verge of the election, may back down and postpone the cuts. Originally, doctor reimbursement rates were scheduled to drop on March 1 of this year, but Congress postponed it until the fall.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/03/20/why_democrats_are_doomed_if_obamacare_passes_10486 0.html

even thought the source is D. Morris. He articulates the reasons from the Doctor's survey.

[Blake]

By Parija Kavilanz, senior writerMarch 22, 2010: 9:49 PM ET

.......Doctors weigh in: Some of the nation's leading physician groups called the new health care legislation a step in the right direction, but said that it still does not address all of their concerns.

The American Medical Association (AMA), the largest physician group, applauded new measures to increase payments for primary care physicians caring for Medicaid patients and give bonus payments to physicians who work in underserved areas.

"Those who have insurance will see improvements right away: lifetime caps on coverage end, children can stay on parents' policies until age 26, and insurance companies can't cancel coverage except in the case of fraud," AMA president Dr. James Rohack, said in a statement Monday.

At the same time, he lamented that the legislation does not repeal the Medicare physician payment formula that threatens to cut what doctors receive from the program.

Dr. Lori Heim, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians, said she was mostly pleased with the legislation.

"Our health care system has so many significant problems that no one legislation will rectify then in one fell swoop," Heim said.

She particularly liked a 10% increase in Medicare payments to all primary care physicians for certain services, including preventive visits, management of new diagnoses and related follow-up visits and management of acute medical problems.

However, Heim pointed out flaws not addressed, including malpractice reform, controlling costs and shifting the system to be more focused on patient outcome and not the number of procedures performed.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) said the legislation addressed most of its concerns.

From a coverage standpoint, the group said the measure comes closer to providing health care to every child in America, although families without legal documentation will still be barred from coverage unless its emergency care.

Under the new measure, insurers can no longer charge customers a co-payment for preventive visits, which include routine check ups and vaccination visits, until the age of 21.

However, one of the biggest concerns for the AAP is that Medicaid payments to providers typically are lower than what Medicare pays providers for services that are comparable. The AAP hopes the Senate will later this week pass a fix in a reconciliation bill that would put Medicaid payments on par with Medicare for comparable services.

........

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/22/news/economy/health_care_reform_industry_reactions/

yeah, all these doctors really hate it.

:rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ gtown.

Which part of the bill forbids you from paying cash for a doctor's visit? Serious question. I'd like to see the actual part of the bill, not a blog.

And 50% of the doctors in your precious survey thought their income would go down without any reform. So your point about their feelings about their income is useless.

I await your butthurt attempt to make it about me.

[Ignignokt]

:lmao @ gtown.

Which part of the bill forbids you from paying cash for a doctor's visit? Serious question. I'd like to see the actual part of the bill, not a blog.
.

Lmao @ Chumpdumper, is this a serious question? Can you come across less as a moron?

I don't go to the doctor to give a donation, i go to pay them for work done or diagnosis. This bill mandates me to pay for insurance i don't want. That's the problem.

This bill impacts my personal freedom to choose whether i elect to use insurance.

NM, i'm talking to the Austin Toros moron.

[Ignignokt]

yeah, all these doctors really hate it.

:rolleyes

The AMA's endorsement was bought off for support.


Hijacking Of AMA’s Support Of ObamaCare

By ROBERT B. SKLAROFF and ROBERT R. GUZZARDI, For The Bulletin
Tuesday, November 17, 2009
Did the American Medical Association (AMA) truly endorse ObamaCare this weekend? Not really, notwithstanding media reports.

To understand the dynamics of what transpired, it is necessary to depict the interaction of the House of Delegates – which convenes semi-annually – and the president, who conducts business in the interim. All actions of the latter must be divulged to and corroborated by the former, recognizing that public emergence of any schism would foment embarrassment, enervating to the AMA and, thus, to both.

Why physicians cannot, instead, become energized by the healthcare reform debate is dramatized by events of the past five days. They can easily be tracked by consulting one page on the AMA’s Web site – after one learns how to interpret both “commissions” and “omissions.”

Policy is Codified

What happened during this interim meeting of the House of Delegates can be gathered following a critical review of the hyperlinks originating on the “Meeting Highlights” page of the AMA Web site’s Interim Meetings link.

During this convocation, four core principles adopted at the annual meeting this past June were reaffirmed – pluralism, freedom of choice, freedom of practice, and universal access for patients – and elucidated thusly:

• Health insurance coverage for all Americans.

• Insurance market reforms that expand choice of affordable coverage and eliminate denials for pre-existing conditions or due to arbitrary caps.

• Assurance that health care decisions will remain in the hands of patients and their physicians, not insurance companies or government officials.

• Investments and incentives for quality improvement and prevention and wellness initiatives.

• Repeal of the Medicare physician payment formula that triggers steep cuts and threaten seniors’ access to care.

• Implementation of medical liability reforms to reduce the cost of defensive medicine.

• Streamline and standardize insurance claims processing requirements to eliminate unnecessary costs and administrative burdens.

Chicago-Style Politics Intervene

In lieu of addressing the “public option” controversy, the AMA rendered this generic endorsement, even as other entities within the structure of organized medicine — both independent of the AMA and subsidiary thereto — opted to deviate from this script.

The not-so-silent hand that had created this discrepancy was unearthed during a site-visit this past summer to the Illinois Medical Society headquarters, which had staked-out a neutral posture.

The AMA’s imprimatur was juxtaposed by opposition by the Chicago Medical Society because the former had been garnered — at least in part — due to the Obama administration’s pledge to endorse the annual “doctor fix,” reversing the 21.5 percent Medicare reimbursement cut scheduled for January, 2010.

That physicians are paid less than they were at the beginning of this millennium (despite rising overhead) is to be ignored; rather, their endorsement is to be extorted, even if the payoff is subject to being rescinded during subsequent years. The shifting alliances and pledges afoot are illustrated by how endorsements were amassed from other stakeholders, only to be undermined by a classic “bait and switch” tactic. Recall that insurers had funded the iconic “Harry and Louise” kitchen-table discussion of complaints against ClintonCare, while this year’s couple had endorsed ObamaCare. Through it all, the Administration shoulder-shrugged, claiming Congress was merely functioning independently.

The President Pre-Empts

Immediately after the House of Representatives approved ObamaCare Saturday night, the AMA’s president hailed its passage. This transpired before the House of Delegates could assess resolutions in opposition thereto, scheduled for testimony on the following day in Reference Committee B. His awareness thereof, which was overtly phrased as intending to reign in his out-of-touch Board of Trustees – by, for example, mandating roll-call votes thereof – constituted a brazen challenge to this policy-making body to dare to undo what he had already trumpeted.

As anticipated, it relented. Gone were citations of policies promoting Health Savings Accounts and the need to rescind the McCarran-Ferguson antitrust pre-emption enjoyed by health insurers, for these were inimicable with ObamaCare. Inserted were specifications regarding insurers, “elimination of denials due to pre-existing conditions is understood to include rescission of insurance coverage for reasons not related to fraudulent representation,” and insurance exchanges, “be self-supporting; have uniform solvency requirements; not receive special advantages from government subsidies; include payment rates established through meaningful negotiations and contracts; not require provider participation; and not restrict enrollees’ access to out-of-network physicians.”

The House Sends a Message

How did the House transmit its displeasure with the president’s unilateral action, without communicating overt antagonism? By compiling its objections to key facets of ObamaCare, to wit:

• Reduced payments to physicians for failing to report quality data when there is evidence that widespread operational problems still have not been corrected by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

• Medicare payment rate cuts mandated by a commission would create a double-jeopardy situation for physicians who are already subject to an expenditure target and potential payment reductions under the Medicare physician payment system.

• Medicare payments cuts for higher utilization with no operational mechanism to assure that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services can report accurate information that is properly attributed and risk-adjusted.

• Redistributed Medicare payments among providers based on outcomes, quality, and risk-adjustment measurements that are not scientifically valid, verifiable and accurate.

• Medicare payment cuts for all physician services to partially offset bonuses from one specialty to another.

• Arbitrary restrictions on physicians who refer Medicare patients to high quality facilities in which they have an ownership interest.

• Creation of an Independent Medicare Commission, or other similar construct, which would take Medicare payment policy out of the hands of Congress and place it under the control of a group of unelected individuals.

• Replacement of the sustainable growth rate (SGR) with a Medicare physician payment system that automatically keeps pace with the cost of running a practice and is backed by a fair, stable funding formula.

• Creation of a single-payer system.

This “something for everyone” approach served to beg the question of whether the specifics of ObamaCare should have been endorsed. Meanwhile, however, the weight of the AMA –representing all of 17 percent of practicing physicians – can now be used by the Obama administration to administer this poison-pill program to a reluctant America.


http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/11/17/commentary/op-eds/doc4b025cc78215e487973886.txt

[ChumpDumper]

Lmao @ Chumpdumper, is this a serious question? Can you come across less as a moron?

I don't go to the doctor to give a donation, i go to pay them for work done or diagnosis. This bill mandates me to pay for insurance i don't want. That's the problem.But you can still pay your doctor in cash?

Yes or no.


This bill impacts my personal freedom to choose whether i elect to use insurance.You haven't proved that at all.

Show me the part of the bill that forces you to pay using insurance only.


NM, i'm talking to the Austin Toros moron.I'm talking to the moron who wants to make it about me.

And you just did.

Again. :toast

[spursncowboys]

The AMA's endorsement was bought off for support.




http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/11/17/commentary/op-eds/doc4b025cc78215e487973886.txt

That is like saying all the teachers agree with what their union does.

[Ignignokt]

:lmao @ gtown.

Which part of the bill forbids you from paying cash for a doctor's visit? Serious question. I'd like to see the actual part of the bill, not a blog.

And 50% of the doctors in your precious survey thought their income would go down without any reform. So your point about their feelings about their income is useless.

I await your butthurt attempt to make it about me.

That follows no logic.

You've illustrated that you don't actually think things through, and i'm happy for having such an easy time debunking your silly arguments.

That's like saying, people know their going to die anyway, so a study illustrating the dangers of smoking is pointless.

rofl! butthurt! clever!!!

[Ignignokt]

But you can still pay your doctor in cash?

Yes or no.

You haven't proved that at all.

Show me the part of the bill that forces you to pay using insurance only.

I'm talking to the moron who wants to make it about me.

And you just did.

Again. :toast


THis dumbass thinks we're bitching because this bill wont allow for co-pay. :lmao.

That's not the argument. The argument is mandated insurance is an affront to personal liberty.

[Ignignokt]

That is like saying all the teachers agree with what their union does.

That's like saying all catholics have a soft stance on pedophillia because of the Vaticans lax rules.

[ChumpDumper]

That follows no logic.It's from your precious survey.

Did you not read it?


You've illustrated that you don't actually think things through, and i'm happy for having such an easy time debunking your silly arguments.You've illustrated that you don't even read the articles you google.

:lmao


That's like saying, people know their going to die anyway, so a study illustrating the dangers of smoking is pointless.No, it's like saying 50% of doctors think they are going to lose money even without health care reform, which shits all over your whining about your doctor's oncoming poverty.

What part of that do you not understand?


rofl! butthurt! clever!!!Eh, it fits. If you were anything but a butthurt moron I would call you something else.

[Ignignokt]

This is so funny, after arguing with Chumpdumper, i feel as if Boutons, Nbadan and Random Guy is a more worthy cerebral opponent.

I mean this is like arguing with the "bitch Nbadan" bitch stewie version.

[ChumpDumper]

THis dumbass thinks we're bitching because this bill wont allow for co-pay. :lmao.

That's not the argument. The argument is mandated insurance is an affront to personal liberty.You said you wouldn't be able to pay your doctor in cash for services and would have to use insurance.

Why are you trying to change your argument now?

It's not my fault you fucked up.

[ChumpDumper]

My personal liberty, the right to not have to buy insurance and instead pay out of pocket.I understand the mandate for insurance, but are you required to use it?

That is my question to you. Serious question -- I don't know the answer.

Do you understand it now?

[Ignignokt]

I understand the mandate for insurance, but are you required to use it?

That is my question to you.

Do you understand it now?

Yeah i do, but can you give me a serious question that was formed out of a sort of logical system rather than one that was formed as an evasion type moving the goal post type of procedure.

I don't believe we should be forced to pay for mandated insurance. anytyhing else is secondary. Whether i have the freedom to not use it after i already paid for it (chuckles, a serious question by this moron), is pointless, i also have the freedom to wear pancakes on my head while paying for mandatory insurance, that's not the crux of my argument. My argument is one shouldn't have to be forced to pay for a private insurance plan.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah i do, but can you give me a serious question that was formed out of a sort of logical system rather than one that was formed as an evasion type moving the goal post type of procedure.It wasn't. Quit whining. It was a direct question directed at you.


I don't believe we should be forced to pay for mandated insurance. anytyhing else is secondary. Whether i have the freedom to not use it after i already paid for it (chuckles, a serious question by this moron), is pointless, i also have the freedom to wear pancakes on my head while paying for mandatory insurance, that's not the crux of my argument. My argument is one shouldn't have to be forced to pay for a private insurance plan.So you aren't going to answer my question I have been asking all along and instead you will move your goalposts and try to evade it.

Fair enough.

[Ignignokt]

You said you wouldn't be able to pay your doctor in cash for services and would have to use insurance.

Why are you trying to change your argument now?

It's not my fault you fucked up.

when i said, "My personal liberty, the right to not have to buy insurance and instead pay out of pocket. ", any normal person would have understood it as the right to not pay for insurance and instead pay out of pocket.

But instead the casual fuck up you are, read the argument as, "The govt won't let me pay out of my pocket" only type argument, which no one is making here.

It's not my fault you're a fuck up.

[Ignignokt]

It wasn't. Quit whining. It was a direct question directed at you.

So you aren't going to answer my question I have been asking all along and instead you will move your goalposts and try to evade it.

Fair enough.

Dude, I already awnsered your question. You don't have to use the mandated insurance, but you do have to pay for it regardless whether you use it or not. I have a problem with being forced to pay for it in the first place.

[ChumpDumper]

when i said, "My personal liberty, the right to not have to buy insurance and instead pay out of pocket. ", any normal person would have understood it as the right to not pay for insurance and instead pay out of pocket.

But instead the casual fuck up you are, read the argument as, "The govt won't let me pay out of my pocket" only type argument, which no one is making here.

It's not my fault you're a fuck up.So you still won't answer my question.

Instead, you'll just whine about your failure to comprehend it.

Understood.

[ChumpDumper]

except i did awnser your question even though it was retarded.No, you didn't.

[Ignignokt]

No, you didn't.


Dude, I already awnsered your question. You don't have to use the mandated insurance, but you do have to pay for it regardless whether you use it or not. I have a problem with being forced to pay for it in the first place.

[ChumpDumper]

You see, gtown, there are people who will still not have insurance.

Will they be forbidden to pay out of pocket?

Yes or no.

[Ignignokt]

So now that i answered your question, are you saying that we should be ok with Obamacare because it doesn't force us to use the insurance we paid for?

[Ignignokt]

You see, gtown, there are people who will still not have insurance.

Will they be forbidden to pay out of pocket?

Yes or no.

Yes, those people are called the congress and staffers, who are exempt from Obamacare.:lmao

Great Bill!

[ChumpDumper]

So now that i answered your question, are you saying that we should be ok with Obamacare because it doesn't force us to use the insurance we paid for?I'm not saying you should be anything.

I'm fine with letting the courts decide the constitutionality of the mandate. I can see arguments for both sides.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, those people are called the congress and staffers, who are exempt from Obamacare.:lmao

Great Bill!No, not those people.

Think harder, if you can.

[Ignignokt]

You mean to tell us that we have the right to tip doctors with Obamacare! yippy!!!!!

thanx Chump, you're full of wisom!

[ChumpDumper]

You mean to tell us that we have the right to tip doctors with Obamacare! yippy!!!!!

thanx Chump, you're full of wisom!No, once again you've failed to understand.

It's OK. I'm used to it.

[Ignignokt]

No, not those people.

Think harder, if you can.

Jackass question deserves a jackass response. thanx!

Yeah, those other people will have their freedom so long as they stay below the poverty line. What's your point?

[Ignignokt]

No, once again you've failed to understand.

It's OK. I'm used to it.

It's ok, you failed to ask a relevant question.

It's ok, I expect it.

[Ignignokt]

So now that i answered your question, are you saying that we should be ok with Obamacare because it doesn't force us to use the insurance we paid for?


why are you evading this question chump?

[ChumpDumper]

It's ok, you failed to ask a relevant question.

It's ok, I expect it.It's quite relevant, and you still haven't answered it.


why are you evading this question chump?


I'm not saying you should be anything.So, you don't understand that?

Typical.

Tell me what part you didn't understand.

[Ignignokt]

It's quite relevant, and you still haven't answered it.



So, you don't understand that?

Typical.

Tell me what part you didn't understand.

I understand the content of your question but don't understand the point of your question.

Why are you intent on asking whether we are banned from paying out of pocket? No one is griping because of that. We are griping because we have to pay for mandated insurance.

So again, what is the point of these questions, are these questions designed for you to claim cheap victories?

[ChumpDumper]

I understand the content of your question but don't understand the point of your question.

Why are you intent on asking whether we are banned from paying out of pocket? No one is griping because of that.You were.
We are griping because we have to pay for mandated insurance.Do you? Is there something else that can be done?


So again, what is the point of these questions, are these questions designed for you to claim cheap victories?No, they've pretty much illustrated that you are fairly ignorant of the issues and should just stick with personal insults and trolling.

[Ignignokt]

No, they've pretty much illustrated that you are fairly ignorant of the issues and should just stick with personal insults and trolling.

:rollin,

like i said, there was no point to any of your questions that had to do with policy, they were just for cheap victories.

[Ignignokt]

You were.

link?

[ChumpDumper]

:rollin,

like i said, there was no point to any of your questions that had to do with policy, they were just for cheap victories.Not at all. There are real answers to them. Showing just how ignorant you are is a bonus and completely expected.

[ChumpDumper]

link?You want a link to your own post that you already quoted?

:rollin

[Ignignokt]

You want a link to your own post that you already quoted?

:rollin

i want a link were i said the govt is going to ban paying out of pocket like you asserted me saying.

Do it.

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks for acknowledging in that same post i cleared what i already thought was cleared. i was arguing about mandated insurance, you this whole time knew my argument and was trying to lure me into a question about banning paying out of pocket.

What a douche.Not at all. My question was quite clear.

Thanks for acknowledging your ignorance.

What a douche.

[ChumpDumper]

i want a link were i said the govt is going to ban paying out of pocket like you asserted me saying.

Do it.I asked you a question about it because I didn't know the answer.

You avoided it for awhile, then finally answered it (not that you actually looked anything up, you just guessed), now you are avoiding other questions to avoid looking even more ignorant.

It's OK. I already know you are ignorant.

[Ignignokt]

I asked you a question about it because I didn't know the answer.

You avoided it for awhile, then finally answered it (not that you actually looked anything up, you just guessed), now you are avoiding other questions to avoid looking even more ignorant.

It's OK. I already know you are ignorant.


self pwnage sprinkled with contradiction is awesome.
:toast

[Ignignokt]

Not at all. My question was quite clear.

Thanks for acknowledging your ignorance.

What a douche.

I agree, i never doubted you're questions were clear, but questioned their motives.

Thanks for acknowledging your ignorance.

What a douche.

[Ignignokt]

I asked you a question about it because I didn't know the answer.

You avoided it for awhile, then finally answered it (not that you actually looked anything up, you just guessed), now you are avoiding other questions to avoid looking even more ignorant.

It's OK. I already know you are ignorant.

I'll admit to not looking up whether paying out of pocket was banned from Obamacare.

But since it was a serious question, and you're serious. You should read all the 2000 + pages to find out whether paying out of pocket with or without insurance is illegal or has been banned.

Cuz, seriously, that's a serious question you've been asking through out this thread.

lolololololololol

:rollin

no seriously, you should write a report and dedicate time.:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

I'll admit to not looking up whether paying out of pocket was banned from Obamacare. Thanks for admitting you just made shit up.

You pwned yourself again.

:tu

[ChumpDumper]

I agree, i never doubted you're questions were clear, but questioned their motives.My motive was wanting an answer to the question.

Thanks for acknowledging you made it up and continue to flaunt your ignorance.

What a douche.

[Ignignokt]

Thanks for admitting you just made shit up.

You pwned yourself again.

:tu

And you can't make shit up with serious questions!

:rollin:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

self pwnage sprinkled with contradiction is awesome.
:toastMy ignorance on one question <> your ignorance on many questions.

:toast

[Ignignokt]

My motive was wanting an answer to the question.

Thanks for acknowledging you made it up and continue to flaunt your ignorance.

What a douche.

Thanks for acknowledging it was a dumb question.

Hey if the question is really important, i'll make a thread with the question posed. okay.

Let me know if that's okay with you..<chuckles>..

[ChumpDumper]

And you can't make shit up with serious questions!

:rollin:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmaoBut you can make shit up with the answers.

:rollin:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks for acknowledging it was a dumb question.It wasn't a dumb question.


Hey if the question is really important, i'll make a thread with the question posed. okay.Is it important to you? I believe I have my answer. Do you just want to make a thread about me? I'm sure that has crossed your mind.


Let me know if that's okay with you..<chuckles>..Why do you feel the need to ask my permission?

[ChumpDumper]

I will say this: from what I know, a regular person can go without actually buying insurance and can pay a doctor out of pocket under this bill -- and not have to be a member of a union or government either.

I could be wrong. You are free to disprove this assumption.

[Blake]

The AMA's endorsement was bought off for support.

http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/11/17/commentary/op-eds/doc4b025cc78215e487973886.txt

of course your source would be a biased republican rag.


....And among the many reasons for the AMA's historic shift is one practical consideration: Obama's plan promises to provide millions of government dollars to help millions of patients pay their doctor bills.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-lobbying-ama-0912-0913sep13,0,7112379.story

they got "paid off" with the promise of helping doctors get paid.

[George Gervin's Afro]

of course your source would be a biased republican rag.



they got "paid off" with the promise of helping doctors get paid.



many of the dead enders sources are from a right win site or dead ender blogger... par for the course

the dcotors were paid off...to support a bill that will make them poorer... no i'm not kidding that is the current argument floating around..

[Blake]

That is like saying all the teachers agree with what their union does.


That's like saying all catholics have a soft stance on pedophillia because of the Vaticans lax rules.

That's like saying all doctors agree with slanted republican bloggers.

[Blake]

the dcotors were paid off...to support a bill that will make them poorer... no i'm not kidding that is the current argument floating around..

and none of them have really explained in detail how the doctors will make them poorer.

It's all been fuzzy guesstures about having to hire more help or the possibility of having a hard time of getting paid by medicare.

the best part of this thread has been watching Ignignokt get shit on. :tu

very entertaining.

[Ignignokt]

I will say this: from what I know, a regular person can go without actually buying insurance and can pay a doctor out of pocket under this bill -- and not have to be a member of a union or government either.

I could be wrong. You are free to disprove this assumption.

How do you know that to be so?

I hope you're not making shit up.

[ChumpDumper]

How do you know that to be so?I read things.


I hope you're not making shit up.I'm not.

Feel free to actually prove me wrong. Something tells me you won't even try.

[Ignignokt]

I read things.

I'm not.

Feel free to actually prove me wrong. Something tells me you won't even try.

:lmao, you made the assumption, the burden is on you.

Tell me, how can the avg american opt out of mandated insurance?

i knew you were a big hypocrite.

[Ignignokt]

btw, i posted your serious question.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150353

Hopefully people will take it seriously, and give us some answers.

[Ignignokt]

Tell me, how can the avg american opt out of mandated insurance?

[Winehole23]

Easy, by not being able to afford it or by refusing to pay for it.

There may be legal consequences for doing so, but short of fear of those very same consequences, there is no effective bar to opting out of the mandate all on one's own.

[Winehole23]

The penalties for noncompliance, at least to start with, are cheaper than the insurance itself. Seems to me noncompliance will be a no-brainer for lots of people.

[ChumpDumper]

:toast

[Winehole23]

Gaming the system in MA:

http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/05/quit-playing-games-with-my-hea

[Winehole23]

When states tried to fix their individual health insurance markets—the marketplace for those who don't get insurance through their employers—the initial idea was to simply prohibit insurers from discriminating against individuals with preexisting conditions. But that caused what insurers called a "death spiral" (http://reason.com/blog/2010/01/22/the-perils-of-compromise)—ever higher premiums as relatively healthy people decided to wait until they were sick to buy insurance, leaving smaller and smaller pools of more and more expensive individuals.

The solution to this problem, both in Massachusetts and in ObamaCare, was the individual mandate: Force everyone to pay in, bringing balance to the insurance pool and keeping prices down. Of course, that only works if everyone is actually compelled to purchase insurance. And a report by the Joint Committee on Taxation (http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=3673) last week seems to indicate that, as written, the individual mandate may not have any teeth. Here's the relevant passage:

The penalty [for not purchasing insurance] applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.
And the footnote on Code F:

IRS authority to assess and collect taxes is generally provided in subtitle F, “Procedure and Administration” in the Code. That subtitle establishes the rules governing both how taxpayers are required to report information to the IRS and pay their taxes as well as their rights. It also establishes the duties and authority of the IRS to enforce the Code, including civil and criminal penalties.
So there are penalties for not purchasing insurance. But there's no serious enforcement mechanism allowing the IRS to make sure those penalties get paid? Given the importance of the mandate to the health reform project, this doesn't make much sense. The law was designed to expand the number of individuals with health insurance. But without the ability to enforce the individual mandate, any expansion will likely be significantly smaller than projected.


Now, there is plenty of time to amend the enforcement provisions before the mandate kicks in in 2014. But if this is true, and it remains true, it could upend the entire health reform project.http://reason.com/blog/2010/03/29/insurance-death-spiral-here-we

[whottt]

So you are saying we can just not pay the insurance or the penalty and that will be the end of it? Anyone?

Awesome. In that case consider all my complaints rescinded.

[LnGrrrR]

So you are saying we can just not pay the insurance or the penalty and that will be the end of it? Anyone?


Ladies and gentlemen, your Congress at work! :rollin

[boutons_deux]

"penalties for noncompliance, at least to start with, are cheaper than the insurance itself"

this is what pissed off the insurnace companies. They wanted penalties, from the start, that are closer to the cost of insurance. I heard a guy on NPR that said for the first couple years, he'd pay the penalties ($95 first year) rather than pay about $3500 for insurance.

[ElNono]

So you are saying we can just not pay the insurance or the penalty and that will be the end of it? Anyone?

Awesome. In that case consider all my complaints rescinded.

Well, the IRS could claim that your payment applies first to the penalty, and then to the tax amount you owe, so they could still go after you unless the only thing you owe them is the penalty.
I suspect that in the vast majority of cases, they'll just take the amount off your paycheck like they do now for regular taxes, and return any outstanding money after the year is over.

[ElNono]

Gaming the system in MA:

http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/05/quit-playing-games-with-my-hea

I wouldn't call it gaming the system. You could argue they're going against the spirit of it, but there's little question what route people are going to go when you leave open a loophole like that.

[RandomGuy]

It probably didn't hurt the Doc's business...

So tell me libs, at what point do you think his income will be more in line with your approval?

Good question.

Salut.