Goran Dragič is a better play than Steve Nash

[Kamnik]

Whoever watches whole Suns games knows that Steve Nash plays a majority of minues alongside Amare and other better players. On the other hands Dragic is stuck playing alongside players like Louis Amundson who can't finish and are pretty much lost defensively.

I say that Suns would be a much better defensive team and a little better team overall with Dragič starting (with starter minutes) and Nash playing 13 minutes a game as a backup. We all know what a great defensive presence fun loving Steve is.

Dragič is a superior defensive player, faster, stronger and a one man fast break waiting to happen. Nash has an edge in shooting and passing but that gets stained with shitloads of turnovers he creates.

White Magic FTW! :makemyday

[Kamnik]

p.s. Gentry sucks! Dudley also only averages 24 minutes a game... what a joke!

[Pero]

Nash has an edge in shooting and passing but that gets stained with shitloads of turnovers he creates.


Nash has a better AST to TO ratio than Dragic so that doesn't seem like much of an argument.

Dragic is more athletic and a better defender as you say, but I don't think it's enough to make him better than Nash yet.

[Kai]

I think Romeo & Juliet is better than both plays.

[Muser]

Nash has more than an edge on passing/shooting. He's in the top 10 passers of all time and he's a pretty damn good shooter.

[Pero]

Nash has more than an edge on passing/shooting. He's in the top 10 passers of all time and he's a pretty damn good shooter.

Yup.

[Pelicans78]

Nash is better offensively, but a huge liability on defense. He's gonna have trouble against PGs like Williams, Westbrook, Miller, Parker, and Kidd in the playoffs. Dragic may have to play more minutes against those teams.

[Ghazi]

Sup DOK

[Kamnik]

Nash has a better AST to TO ratio than Dragic so that doesn't seem like much of an argument.


If Dragič would play with Amare more and with Amundson less he would have more assits and if Nash would play with scrubs more he would have way less assists.

[DPG21920]

No.

[ata]

True is, that Dragič plays with bench players, however he plays also against bench players. He has potential, no doubt.

And about Gentry - Dragič was pretty misused and lost until Gentry took over.

[crc21209]

I think Romeo & Juliet is better than both plays.

:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Post AS break Nash's great shooting has been an abortion. Since we're talking about right now and not November, Nash doesn't have much of an edge in shooting.

[mogrovejo]

Without Nash the Suns would be at the level of Memphis/Houston. Nah, lower.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Without Nash the Suns would be at the level of Memphis/Houston. Nah, lower.


Without Nash, the Suns wouldn't be a title contender, just like how they are with Nash.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And you're sugar coating things, they wouldn't be near .500, but I'll take anything over the same tired no defense run and fun bullshit act I've had to watch fail since 2005.

[Cry Havoc]

Kill Bill Pana thread.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kill Bill Pana thread.


Unlike the scrubs KBP talks about Goran is actually somewhat proven in the NBA.

[Cry Havoc]

Unlike the scrubs KBP talks about Goran is actually somewhat proven in the NBA.

Mostly I was talking about OP's broken English, combined with the fact that he's giving the old, "Foreign player X is better than American All-Star Y" with almost no factual analysis.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Mostly I was talking about OP's broken English, combined with the fact that he's giving the old, "Foreign player X is better than American All-Star Y" with almost no factual analysis.


Well, the game Phoenix just lost to Milwaukee is more factual analysis than KBP has ever produced :lol

[mojorizen7]

Without Nash the Suns would be at the level of Memphis/Houston. Nah, lower.

I don't think so.
Hopefully it will be proven sooner rather than later.
The offensive drop off would be significant initially, but we wouldn't be running the same offense if Nash were gone.

[Kamnik]

Mostly I was talking about OP's broken English, combined with the fact that he's giving the old, "Foreign player X is better than American All-Star Y" with almost no factual analysis.

My english may be broken but I watch every Suns game and it is getting pretty damn obvious that Nash isn't leading this team anywhere.

And Nash is Canadian btw.

[pauls931]

Nash is better offensively, but a huge liability on defense. He's gonna have trouble against PGs like Williams, Westbrook, Miller, Parker, and Kidd in the playoffs. Dragic may have to play more minutes against those teams.

This. I hope they manage both of them appropriately for games but you also have to be careful. When playoff pressure arrives, you'll have to be careful how you play Dragic since he's an unknown right now in that situation for the most part. I have no problem at all if Nash is getting smoked during a critical stretch if they sub Dragic in. However another threat is Dragic may be at a disadvantage since he may get the short end of the stick on calls vs star players.

[ata]

Mostly I was talking about OP's broken English, combined with the fact that he's giving the old, "Foreign player X is better than American All-Star Y" with almost no factual analysis.

FYI: Nash is Canadian

[mogrovejo]

And you're sugar coating things, they wouldn't be near .500

Agreed, that's why I added "lower".


but I'll take anything over the same tired no defense run and fun bullshit act I've had to watch fail since 2005.

The reason the Suns aren't contenders isn't because of Nash or style of play; rather a lack of high level talent around Nash.

[mogrovejo]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.


Nash is the only player to ever allow Steve Blake to have a 20 point 10 assist night, and he's allowed it twice. Please quit acting like his defense isn't on its own level of shitty. Nash makes himself worse than the players you mentioned because he ball hawks way too much. That leads to players being left open and teammates being left out of position. As bad a man defender as Nash is his team defense is just as bad if not worse. Getting rid of Nash wouldn't instantly make them a good defensive team, but as long as they have Nash and his "Fun > winning" culture in Phoenix, the defense is gonna suck.

I'm not saying Nash is the reason they're not a contender so please quit using that strawman, I'm saying that they're never going to be a contender again as long as Nash is on the team running things talking about how much he enjoys losing.

[in2deep]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle

[mogrovejo]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle

Agreed.


Nash is the only player to ever allow Steve Blake to have a 20 point 10 assist night, and he's allowed it twice. Please quit acting like his defense isn't on its own level of shitty. Nash makes himself worse than the players you mentioned because he ball hawks way too much. That leads to players being left open and teammates being left out of position. As bad a man defender as Nash is his team defense is just as bad if not worse. Getting rid of Nash wouldn't instantly make them a good defensive team, but as long as they have Nash and his "Fun > winning" culture in Phoenix, the defense is gonna suck.

I'm not saying Nash is the reason they're not a contender so please quit using that strawman, I'm saying that they're never going to be a contender again as long as Nash is on the team running things talking about how much he enjoys losing.

BS. The Suns were contenders with Nash. Surround Nash with the right kind of personnel and you're still contenders, although that's basically impossible now. I agree they should have started rebuilding 2 seasons ago; but Nash is the reason they came close to win a title, not the reason they never won one.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle


2007 thread

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

BS. The Suns were contenders with Nash. Surround Nash with the right kind of personnel and you're still contenders, although that's basically impossible now. I agree they should have started rebuilding 2 seasons ago; but Nash is the reason they came close to win a title, not the reason they never won one.


I see you're still using a strawman argument. I'm talking about right now, I'm well aware of how good Nash was in 2007, this thread has nothing to do with 2007. My point is that from here on out, they will not be a contender as long as Nash is on the team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash post-AS break this year

12.5 points, 46.6% shooting, 10.8 assists, 3.5 turnovers

Time to stop talking about him like he's some sort of god. Since the AS break he's lost just as many games for Phoenix as he's won. Amare is by far the best player on the team right now.

[DPG21920]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.

Yes. Tony Parker is a significantly better defender than Nash. Significantly.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yes. Tony Parker is a significantly better defender than Nash. Significantly.


Tony Parker at the very least stays on his man and does what his coach expects him to do. Even Mike D'antoni used to openly gripe about Nash's bad habits on defense.

[DPG21920]

TP gets flack from people who don't watch him. He has locked very good players up before. He may not do it all the time, because he runs so much of the offense, but when focused, he is a very good defender.

That is the difference with Nash. Not only is he not focused, he is just not good in that regard. He can't just "lock in" and stop somebody.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's the thing that makes no sense when people say stupid stuff like Nash is only a bad defender because of his physical abilities.....what the fuck does physical ability have to do with repeatedly leaving Steve Blake and Derek Fisher wide open? His focus is just as bad as his "physical abilities".

[Kamnik]

what the fuck does physical ability have to do with repeatedly leaving Steve Blake and Derek Fisher wide open? His focus is just as bad as his "physical abilities".

Spot on.

Dragic>Nash :toast