Chris Bosh pulls a WNBA Chokejob

[D2Procon]

mWmCdYahiPU

[gaKNOW!blee]

you gotta dunk that shit

[boutons_deux]

Tim did the same in Game5 in 2005 Finals. Had his ass bailed out by Horry.

[redzero]

I would still rather have him instead of West.

[BlackSwordsMan]

the kid had the camera coordination of heath ledger's joker

[Xevious]

The shaky cam and commentating by that little kid are more disturbing than the missed shot. There isn't another youtube or nba.com vid available?

[j.dizzle]

Bosh is a choker, no surprises here..Its pretty sad that a team with pretty good players & playing in the eastern conference can have such a shitty record & struggle to even get 8th seed.

[monosylab1k]

Never been a big Bosh fan. I always thought he was a nice player, but nobody to build your franchise around. A poor man's Garnett, nothing more. Somebody out there is going to really regret giving him a wheelbarrow full of money this summer.

[monosylab1k]

the kid had the camera coordination of heath ledger's joker

after seeing the shaky cam and bosh's predator alien face i thought maybe this was a viral video for Cloverfield 2.

[BRHornet45]

Never been a big Bosh fan. I always thought he was a nice player, but nobody to build your franchise around. A poor man's Garnett, nothing more. Somebody out there is going to really regret giving him a wheelbarrow full of money this summer.

lol hating on Bosh to try and make yourself feel better about Dirk. son do you honestly think Dirk is someone to build a team around? Bosh is better and will also have a better career than Dirk.

[Xylus]

lol hating on Bosh to try and make yourself feel better about Dirk. son do you honestly think Dirk is someone to build a team around? Bosh is better and will also have a better career than Dirk.

Seriously, this is a retarded thing to say. Bosh will have a better career than Dirk? Maybe if he gets paired up with Dwyane Wade or Lebron.

[BRHornet45]

Bosh misses one shot and you people act as if he is a scrub! Dirk has made an entire career out of choking.

[mogrovejo]

Can't blame him for missing this shot. Not easy to make the decision of going for the dunk in a situation like this, difficult to control the clock.

I agree Bosh needs to grow as a player but I think he'll do in a different scenario. Difficult to blossom when you're surrounded by the kind of personnel Colangelo put around him.

[resistanze]

I was hoping that Colangelo would try to sign Bosh and go after someone like Joe Johnson this offseason, but of course he blows his load on Hedo "I Spend more time in the club than in the gym" Turkoglu. Fucking idiot GM.

[Killakobe81]

Im sorry but to ASSUME Bosh is going to have a better career than Dirj who has been an MVP, carried a team to the finals put up MAD points in the playoffs and regular season is asinine ...

Thta is like ASSUMING Cp3 will have a better career than Magic or Stockton based off his first few seasons ...

[lil_penny]

Who was filming this? Michael j fox??

[HornetLoveJones]

what is this a 10 year old offering commentary

[resistanze]

Who was filming this? Michael j fox??

:lmao

[BRHornet45]

Im sorry but to ASSUME Bosh is going to have a better career than Dirj who has been an MVP, carried a team to the finals put up MAD points in the playoffs and regular season is asinine ...

Thta is like ASSUMING Cp3 will have a better career than Magic or Stockton based off his first few seasons ...

LMAO son did you SERIOUSLY just put Dirk in the same category as Magic and Stockton???? are you serious? lol

[Lars]

Bosh had 42 points on 19 shots.

Bargs had 18 points on 23 shots.

Nothing about that loss is on Bosh. Dude was unreal and his team fucking blows.

[Scola]

Never been a big Bosh fan. I always thought he was a nice player, but nobody to build your franchise around. A poor man's Garnett, nothing more. Somebody out there is going to really regret giving him a wheelbarrow full of money this summer.

Bosh is Not a Max Player or a #1 option, hes more of a secondary guy. That being said, if Bynum --a 7 footer whos the 3rd/4th option on his team-- can make $12.5 Million then Bosh deserves at least $15-$16 (which is what he makes now). This summer some team (NYK?) is def gonna offer him $17-$18M /year which is near Max Money.

[DPG21920]

Bosh is overrated and is not even close to Dirk sons. He is not a poor mans KG, because he is so terrible on defense. He is like a poor mans KG, but the opposite.

[Scola]

Bosh is overrated and is not even close to Dirk sons. He is not a poor mans KG, because he is so terrible on defense. He is like a poor mans KG, but the opposite.

Wtf! make up your mind!

[DPG21920]

Wtf! make up your mind!

Hence, "the opposite"

[Lars]

Bosh is good enough to be a number one option. The Raptors just were terrible at building around him.

[Scola]

Hence, "My English skills suck"
Fixed.

[DPG21920]

Fixed.

A guy named Scola talking about the English language. CROFL.

[ploto]

Raptors star Chris Bosh named Eastern Conference player of the week

Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh was named the NBA's Eastern Conference Player of the Week for the seventh time in his career Monday, tying Vince Carter for the most in team history.

Bosh averaged 31.5 points, 11.5 rebounds, shot .594 (41-for-69) from the field and .846 (44-for-52) from the free-throw line in leading the Raptors to a 3-1 mark.

He led the team in points and rebounds in all four games, increasing his double-double tally to a team-high 49 this season.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jC-sndvKkzpzzx4oUS4HHpZvEXDw

Shows what you know...

[DPG21920]

Player of the week is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player.

[Lars]

Player of the week is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player.

fiction

Wade for example hasnt done dick w/o Shaq

Teams win games, not players.

[DPG21920]

fiction

Wade for example hasnt done dick w/o Shaq

Teams win games, not players.

But Wade still has a ring and his peak >>>> Bosh's peak. Wade has less talent now, and his team is still better.

[Lars]

But Wade still has a ring and his peak >>>> Bosh's peak. Wade has less talent now, and his team is still better.

The biggest misconception among fans is that number of rings won is a direct determinant of how good a player they are.

The Raptors have a terrible GM and a terrible coach. Put anything decent around him and lets see how they do.

[DPG21920]

The biggest misconception among fans is that number of rings won is a direct determinant of how good a player they are.

The Raptors have a terrible GM and a terrible coach. Put anything decent around him and lets see how they do.

A number one draft pick, Hedo and Calderon are terrible? Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better.

Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

[resistanze]

A number one draft pick, Hedo and Calderon are terrible? Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better.

Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

Bosh probably isn't a franchise player, but your argument is terrible. Does your logic also apply to LeBron?

[DPG21920]

Bosh probably isn't a franchise player, but your argument is terrible. Does your logic also apply to LeBron?

What logic?

[resistanze]

What logic?

That's what I said!

[DPG21920]

That's what I said!

Clever. But again, I ask? I never said that rings are the measure, I simply pointed out that Wade has one. I also pointed out that dismissing the rings as a measure of player success is foolish, just as much as putting all the eggs in that basket. Because, like I said, the best players usually win rings. Not in all cases, but that is why the Jordan's, Kobe's, Duncan's and Shaq's, the true franchise players usually get one.

Bosh is not as good as Wade and my logic had nothing to do with rings. I explicitly said look at just this year. Wade's has less talent, but a better team.

If you want to bring Lebron into that, then you are the one devoid of logic.

[resistanze]

Clever. But again, I ask? I never said that rings are the measure, I simply pointed out that Wade has one. I also pointed out that dismissing the rings as a measure of player success is foolish, just as putting all the eggs in that basket. Because, like I said, the best players usually win rings. Not in all cases, but that is why the Jordan's, Kobe's, Duncan's and Shaq's, the true franchise players usually get one.

Bosh is not as good as Wade and my logic had nothing to do with rings. I explicitly said look at just this year. Wade's has less talent, but a better team.

If you want to bring Lebron into that, then you are the one devoid of logic.
No, you originally said what has he done in the playoffs. He's only been there twice (averaged 21/9 - decent enough), and I'd never called the Raptors in any of those series Juggernauts.

And no, Toronto is not a good team. If you feel Bosh is overrated, then I shouldn't have to explain what Turkoglu and Calderon are. You have one guy getting paid over 50 million for score 11 PPG at a shitty clip and you have a PG that's afraid to attack and plays maybe the worst defense in the NBA at his position.

Toronto was level with Miami a month and a bit ago until Bosh got injured for several games and went into a freefall. Did you follow their progress throughout the year or did you just glace at the standings?

Wade is better than Bosh, that's not an earth-shattering revelation. But you're talking from both sides of your mouth.

"It's got nothing to do with rings," "How has he done in the playoffs?" "Wade still has a ring," "The best players are usually winning rings"

You made it about rings initially.

[DPG21920]

No, you originally said what has he done in the playoffs. He's only been there twice (averaged 21/9 - decent enough), and I'd never called the Raptors in any of those series Juggernauts.

And no, Toronto is not a good team. If you feel Bosh is overrated, then I shouldn't have to explain what Turkoglu and Calderon are. You have one guy getting paid over 50 million for score 11 PPG at a shitty clip and you have a PG that's afraid to attack and plays maybe the worst defense in the NBA at his position.

Toronto was level with Miami a month and a bit ago until Bosh got injured for several games and went into a freefall. Did you follow their progress throughout the year or did you just glace at the standings?

Wade is better than Bosh, that's not an earth-shattering revelation. But you're talking from both sides of your mouth.

"It's got nothing to do with rings," "How has he done in the playoffs?" "Wade still has a ring," "The best players are usually winning rings"

You made it about rings initially.

Please show me my initial statement and how that refers to Bosh and the ring argument.

How has he done in the playoffs, is not the same as rings. That is you being self conciseness about your team and player. Dirk has never won a ring, but had great playoff success. Dirk is much better than Bosh. So again, what has he done in the playoffs? A player that "good", in the Eastern conference should be able to get his team to the playoffs more.

Hilarious that teams with shitty playoff records and no rings always want to look the other way. Again, it is not all about rings, but they play a huge role and you can't dismiss them. It is like you want to penalize players who have rings. Same with playoff success.

Who cares if a guy is under achieving and over paid? The Raptors still have more talent than the Heat. The Heat are still better. You act like Miami has no injuries. That is my point. What is yours?

[DPG21920]

Bosh is overrated and is not even close to Dirk sons. He is not a poor mans KG, because he is so terrible on defense. He is like a poor mans KG, but the opposite.

First comment on Bosh. No mention of rings.


Player of the week is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player.

Second comment on Bosh. Still no mention of rings.


But Wade still has a ring and his peak >>>> Bosh's peak. Wade has less talent now, and his team is still better.

Making a point about Wade being better (which you admitted and this guy is arguing). Finally brought up a ring, but mentioned "look at now" and "team is still better".


A number one draft pick, Hedo and Calderon are terrible? Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better.

Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

Clearly said "take away the rings". So again, you were saying?

[Lars]

A number one draft pick, Hedo and Calderon are terrible? Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better. .

Calderon/Hedo/Bargs are average NBA players who all have terrible contracts. Derozan is an unknown at this point.

Without Bosh, that team is a 20-28 win team.


Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

But it does. Wade has a ring because of Shaq, without him, he has accomplished the same as Bosh.

McGrady is a good example. Great player, got a good team, and couldnt get it done. Thus - not a player you can build around.

Bosh. Great player, never had a good team, and couldnt get it done. Thus - unknown if you can build around him.

[DPG21920]

Calderon/Hedo/Bargs are average NBA players who all have terrible contracts. Derozan is an unknown at this point.

Without Bosh, that team is a 20-28 win team.



But it does. Wade has a ring because of Shaq, without him, he has accomplished the same as Bosh.

McGrady is a good example. Great player, got a good team, and couldnt get it done. Thus - not a player you can build around.

Bosh. Great player, never had a good team, and couldnt get it done. Thus - unknown if you can build around him.

No. Take Wade off the Heat, and they are worse than the Raptors. Do the Raptors not have more talent than the Heat?

Wade has a ring because of Shaq? :lmao Wade is a better player than Bosh and it has nothing to do with Shaq.

Once again, you cannot put everything on rings, but to dismiss them is stupid. You can't just subtract rings. Not to mention, the Heat weren't even that good of a team when they won a ring. It is not like Wade had Kobe talent around him.

[Greg Oden]

Calderon, Turkoglu, Bargnani, and Bosh are up there with the worst defenders at their positions in the entire NBA..



fify

[resistanze]

Please show me my initial statement and how that refers to Bosh and the ring argument.

How has he done in the playoffs, is not the same as rings. That is you being self conciseness about your team and player. Dirk has never won a ring, but had great playoff success. Dirk is much better than Bosh. So again, what has he done in the playoffs? A player that "good", in the Eastern conference should be able to get his team to the playoffs more. You're an idiot. Self conscious :lol? I shit on the Raps and Bosh constantly on this board. What did KG do in the playoffs for a decade? T-Mac? Carmelo (till last year's run)? All these players are/were better than Bosh but didn't do jack shit in the playoffs. A player that "good"? What "good"? The fuck are you talking about?

Hilarious that teams with shitty playoff records and no rings always want to look the other way. Again, it is not all about rings, but they play a huge role and you can't dismiss them. It is like you want to penalize players who have rings. Same with playoff success.Idiotic straw-mans aside, refer above.

Who cares if a guy is under achieving and over paid? The Raptors still have more talent than the Heat. The Heat are still better. You act like Miami has no injuries. That is my point. What is yours?You do, obviously. You argued that Toronto's supporting cast is so much better than Miami's but Miami has a better record. I respond with showing you that their supporting cast is hardly any better and as soon as Bosh got injured the Raps were on a bad slide. You respond with "who cares?" That makes sense.

"Who cares if a guy is under achieving and over paid? The Spurs still have more talent than the Oklahoma, Phoenix and Utah and Denver. They're still better."

Irrefutable proof that Tim Duncan ain't that "good."

No I'm kidding, that's retarded.

[DPG21920]

You're an idiot. Self conscious :lol? I shit on the Raps and Bosh constantly on this board. What did KG do in the playoffs for a decade?

Took the Wolves to the WCF. Plus won MVP of the regular season


T-Mac? Carmelo (till last year's run)? All these players are/were better than Bosh but didn't do jack shit in the playoffs. A player that "good"? What "good"? The fuck are you talking about?
Idiotic straw-mans aside, refer above.

Why do you nullify Carmelo's run :lol. Why are you also focusing, like an idiot that deals in only absolutes, on strictly one thing and getting hung up on it? Just because someone says look at one thing and uses that to support an argument does not mean that is the only variable in the equation. Once again, your insecurities are glaring.

A player as good as Bosh. People are saying he is a franchise player.



You do, obviously. You argued that Toronto's supporting cast is so much better than Miami's but Miami has a better record. I respond with showing you that their supporting cast is hardly any better and as soon as Bosh got injured the Raps were on a bad slide. You respond with "who cares?" That makes sense.

So my point that Toronto has more talent but the Heat are better is correct, yet I am wrong? Just because you use injury excuses? Like Miami has had no injuries? Wade has played a whopping 4 more games than Bosh.


"Who cares if a guy is under achieving and over paid? The Spurs still have more talent than the Oklahoma, Phoenix and Utah and Denver. They're still better.

Irrefutable proof that Tim Duncan ain't that "good."

No I'm kidding, that's retarded.

That's what I said!

[DPG21920]

So lets recap:

1) Rings don't matter
2) Playoff success does not matter
3) Talent does not matter


Only finding a few exceptions to the rules and evaluating players on stats is what matters.

[DPG21920]

What did KG do? Win a title, MVP, defensive player of the year. What did Bosh do? Win player of the week. But who cares?

[resistanze]

Took the Wolves to the WCF. Plus won MVP of the regular season:lmao Oh my god. So in 8 attempts, KG got out of the first round once, with a support cast (something you love to harp on) FAR SUPERIOR than anything Bosh has played with in his career. He didn't sniff the playoffs after 2004 until he went to Boston. MVP of the regular season?

"Regular season MVP is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player."

Dumb argument.

Why do you nullify Carmelo's run :lol. Why are you also focusing, like an idiot that deals in only absolutes, on strictly one thing and getting hung up on it? Just because someone says look at one thing and uses that to support an argument does not mean that is the only variable in the equation. Once again, your insecurities are glaring.
Not nullifying Carmelo's run, just pointing out he's been in a playoff scenario since he was drafted, and only until last year came out of the first round. T-Mac in his prime? How about him?


A player as good as Bosh. People are saying he is a franchise player. Well, what do you define as a franchise player? Only Kobe, LeBron, and Wade? The fact is only 3 teams have these guys - you gotta build around other players in the league. I don't know if they'd win a ring, but the Raps could do some damage on a team correctly constructed around Bosh.


So my point that Toronto has more talent but the Heat are better is correct, yet I am wrong? Just because you use injury excuses? Like Miami has had no injuries? Wade has played a whopping 4 more games than Bosh.
No, I argued if the Raptors are more talented than the Heat, it's only marginally. People seem to agree in this thread.


That's what I said!
Fail.

[resistanze]

What did KG do? Win a title, MVP, defensive player of the year. What did Bosh do? Win player of the week. But who cares?
LOL @ having to point to KG's tenure with Boston to strengthen a shitty point. Let's wait for Bosh to join Lebron in 6 years, in that case.

[DPG21920]

LOL @ having to point to KG's tenure with Boston to strengthen a shitty point. Let's wait for Bosh to join Lebron in 6 years, in that case.

Guy, its safe to say Bosh won't win MVP or defensive player of the year.

BTW what are you mad about? You seem to think I harped pn the ring argument (which I did not) and you say that is "dumb logic". So now, once you realize you were wrong about it, you are arguing the dumbest shit to save face.

Funny that your name is resistanze when the team you root for and your arguments present none.

[DPG21920]

:lmao Oh my god. So in 8 attempts, KG got out of the first round once, with a support cast (something you love to harp on) FAR SUPERIOR than anything Bosh has played with in his career. He didn't sniff the playoffs after 2004 until he went to Boston. MVP of the regular season?

You asked the question. Don't like the answer, take it up with Bosh's resume. How do I love to harp on it :lol. I used it in one argument as one point and you agreed :lol

Who cares about anything else. KG still has had more playoff success than Bosh. / that argument.


"Regular season MVP is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player."

Dumb argument.

You are getting worse as this goes on. Now you want to twist what I said? Where did I say playoff success is it? Once again, you are dealing in absolutes because you don't know what you are talking about. You want to disregard his regular season MVP?


Not nullifying Carmelo's run, just pointing out he's been in a playoff scenario since he was drafted, and only until last year came out of the first round. T-Mac in his prime? How about him?

:lol You put the qualifier on Melo. You keep shifting things to fit your arguments. Once again, you can always find a few things to support any argument, but that does not make you right.


Well, what do you define as a franchise player? Only Kobe, LeBron, and Wade? The fact is only 3 teams have these guys - you gotta build around other players in the league. I don't know if they'd win a ring, but the Raps could do some damage on a team correctly constructed around Bosh.

But they are built around Bosh and have done no damage. Franchise player (as I already defined in this thread) is a clear cut best player on a championship level team imo.

I know there is only a few franchise players. That is what I have said. I never said that you shouldn't build around Bosh. I said he is a very good player. I am simply said you can't builid around Bosh like you could Duncan. You have to surround Bosh with a lot more than a guy like Duncan in order to be a legit contender.



No, I argued if the Raptors are more talented than the Heat, it's only marginally. People seem to agree in this thread.

There you go trying to frame arguments to suit you. I said they are better. You said marginally. I said, so? They are better, who cares to what degree. / that argument.



Fail.

Yes. Yes you do.


LOL @ having to point to KG's tenure with Boston to strengthen a shitty point. Let's wait for Bosh to join Lebron in 6 years, in that case.

What is the shitty point you think I am making? This seems to be your hang up. What is the shitty logic and point that I am making and you are refuting? Clarify it, so I can show you how dumb you look.

[resistanze]

Guy, its safe to say Bosh won't win MVP or defensive player of the year.

BTW what are you mad about? You seem to think I harped pn the ring argument (which I did not) and you say that is "dumb logic". So now, once you realize you were wrong about it, you are arguing the dumbest shit to save face.

Funny that your name is resistanze when the team you root for and your arguments present none.

Yeah, your original point was implying the regular season doesn't matter much, it's all about playoff success. Correct? You're now defending your use of KG, by pointing to regular season accolades for Garnett and ignoring his playoff futility for over a decade... you seem to contradict your point. Of course, you'll point to KG's ring he got in his 12th season. Should we not wait for Bosh to play 12 seasons then?

I guess the other point you made was Wade > Bosh. Ground-breaking.

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings faggot" can't really apply here, sorry.

And you of all people talking about saying dumb shit to save face? You? :lol

Let's end it right here.

[DPG21920]

Just a heads up, comparing Bosh to Wade, KG and Lebron shows the direction you are going and how you can't comprehend what I am saying. It illustrates a complete misunderstanding and contortion of what I am saying because you are myopic.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, your original point was implying the regular season doesn't matter much, it's all about playoff success. Correct? You're now defending your use of KG, by pointing to regular season accolades for Garnett and ignoring his playoff futility for over a decade... you seem to contradict your point. Of course, you'll point to KG's ring he got in his 12th season. Should we not wait for Bosh to play 12 seasons then?

I guess the other point you made was Wade > Bosh. Ground-breaking.

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings faggot" can't really apply here, sorry.

And you of all people talking about saying dumb shit to save face? You? :lol

Let's end it right here.

No, my point was that Bosh has not done a lot in the regular season or in the playoffs. I used playoffs, rings, accolades and general evaluation to compare Bosh to other players.

You focused on one thing and took it to extremes to try and defend yourself.

Yes, you, who argue semantics such as marginally better, talk about dumb shit. Yes, you, who miss the point and twist what I say, talk about dumb shit. lol, you.

[DPG21920]

Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better.

Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

[DPG21920]

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings faggot" can't really apply here, sorry.
.

Your insecurities on display. I say "playoff success" and you say "oh the ring argument". I say no, playoff success is not just rings.

I make fun of YOUR team's DEFENSE, and you say "4 rings faggot does not work", even though I said nothing about rings or titles or about the Spurs.

[resistanze]

What you don't seem to get is that Wade, Duncan, LeBron > Bosh is not a revelation. But the logic you use is so flawed it's not even funny.

In this thread I've heard you say:

1) Bosh is not a franchise player because he doesn't have much playoff success in his career so far.

Yet you defend KG's playoff futility over a decade and have to point to regular season awards and a ring in his 12th season on a stacked team.

2) You claim we can look at the fact that Miami has a better record than Toronto with a weaker supporting cast as proof that Wade > Bosh and Bosh is not a franchise player.

I show that Toronto's supporting cast is not good at all. But for your sake, let's say Toronto does have a clearly superior cast. Once again, what does that say about Tim Duncan and the 7th seed Spurs, who has a cast of Dick Jefferson (20PPG last year, no exuses about under-achieving) Manu (16.6 PPG, former All-Star), Tony Parker (multiple All-star, Finals MVP, no injury excuses as you said)? I guess my man Timmy isn't a franchise player.

3) Wade, LeBron, KG, Duncan are better players than Bosh

Who's arguing that?

Overall, I don't know what your point is. There are clearly better players than Bosh. I guess you're arguing that the Raptors are built around Bosh in a correct manner, and that it's Bosh's inability to deliver is why they haven't gone far in the playoffs. I think anyone who follows the team know that this team isn't built for success. Not even Kobe could win with a unbalanced and weak supporting cast. You don't seem to get that.

[Lars]

J.O'Neal and Beasely are both better than what the Raptors have after Bosh.

The Raptors are a poorly constructed team, the Heat are not.

[DPG21920]

What you don't seem to get is that Wade, Duncan, LeBron > Bosh is not a revelation. But the logic you use is so flawed it's not even funny.

No it's not.


In this thread I've heard you say:

1) Bosh is not a franchise player because he doesn't have much playoff success in his career so far.

Yet you defend KG's playoff futility over a decade and have to point to regular season awards and a ring in his 12th season on a stacked team.

I did not say the only reason Bosh is not a franchise player is because of playoff success. I said it is one reason. There is a difference. You used KG as an example, I pointed that he has done more in the playoffs (which he has), then you framed the argument to suit you.

Of course I point to his regular season awards, because something like the LEAGUE MVP certainly matters and is just another layer to the argument. No argument is singular. You are struggling with that as I mentioned numerous times in this thread.


2) You claim we can look at the fact that Miami has a better record than Toronto with a weaker supporting cast as proof that Wade > Bosh and Bosh is not a franchise player.

I show that Toronto's supporting cast is not good at all. But for your sake, let's say Toronto does have a clearly superior cast. Once again, what does that say about Tim Duncan, who has a cast of Dick Jefferson (20PPG last year, no exuses about under-achieving) Manu (16.6 PPG, former All-Star), Tony Park (multiple All-star, Finals MVP, no injury excuses as you said)? I guess my man Timmy isn't a franchise player

Once again, your logic is flawed. You can always find an anomaly or an outlier to support arguments. The Wade>Bosh argument came from Rocket fans using Wade as a comparison to Bosh. They said he was better. I said no and used that as ONE EXAMPLE as why he is NOT BETTER THAN WADE. I did not say that Bosh was not a franchise player because of the Wade argument. The were separate issues that you took out of context to suppport your argument. Again.

You can't use that logic with a declining Tim who has won titles, had lots of regular season and playoff awards. He is clearly better than Bosh. So your argument that you are trying to frame is stupid. You are again looking at arguments in isolation and not taking into consideration very simple logic and other variables. You seem to have that problem.


3) Wade, LeBron, KG, Duncan are better players than Bosh

Who's arguing that?

You are because you keep mentioning them in the same breath as Bosh as a basis of comparison.


Overall, I don't know what your point is.

Understatement of the thread.



There are clearly better players than Bosh. I guess you're arguing that the Raptors are built around Bosh in a correct manner, and that it's Bosh's inability to deliver is why they haven't gone far in the playoffs. I think anyone who follows the team know that this team isn't built for success.

No. That is not my argument. My argument is that based on a multitude of factors and watching Bosh, that he is not on the level of franchise player as I define them. Like I said, you take a guy like Tim or Shaq and you can put less around them and win. With Bosh, you have to surround him with a lot of talent just to have a chance.

The fact his team is poorly built and he has not had that is not his fault, but that does not change his game.

[DPG21920]

J.O'Neal and Beasely are both better than what the Raptors have after Bosh.

The Raptors are a poorly constructed team, the Heat are not.

GTFO with that. Bargnani is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Beasley or O'neal. Hedo, as much as he is sucking is still better than them. Jack/Calderon is certainly better than Arroyo/Chalmers.

[resistanze]

I did not say the only reason Bosh is not a franchise player is because of playoff success. I said it is one reason. There is a difference. You used KG as an example, I pointed that he has done more in the playoffs (which he has), then you framed the argument to suit you.
It was you that said of Bosh "what has he done in the playoffs?" I know you like moving the goalposts, but let's address this for a second. I pointed out KG's lack of success in the playoffs, and you point to his regular season accolades. You then ignore his decade of playoff failures and point to his ring on a team that is 10 times better than Bosh has ever played with. You don't see why this is flawed?

Once again, your logic is flawed. You can always find an anomaly or an outlier to support arguments. The Wade>Bosh argument came from Rocket fans using Wade as a comparison to Bosh. They said he was better. I said no and used that as ONE EXAMPLE as why he is NOT BETTER THAN WADE. I did not say that Bosh was not a franchise player because of the Wade argument. The were separate issues that you took out of context to suppport your argument. Again.
I don't remember anyone saying Bosh > Wade in this thread. You'll have to show me, I missed it.

You can't use that logic with a declining Tim who has won titles, had lots of regular season and playoff awards. He is clearly better than Bosh. So your argument that you are trying to frame is stupid. You are again looking at arguments in isolation and not taking into consideration very simple logic and other variables. You seem to have that problem.

How ironic. It was you who chose it take THIS season in isolation to show that Heat are doing better than the Raptors, thus Wade > Bosh. You also disregarded injuries and "under-achieving" as factors. You can't then point to Duncan's past success in this stupid argument you set up. I'm talking about this season. Don't bring up old shit. You set the conditions for the comparison, don't change it. It's not about comparing Duncan to Bosh.

You are because you keep mentioning them in the same breath as Bosh as a basis of comparison. Nope, that's just your affinity for straw-man arguments.


No. That is not my argument. My argument is that based on a multitude of factors and watching Bosh, that he is not on the level of franchise player as I define them. Like I said, you take a guy like Tim or Shaq and you can put less around them and win. With Bosh, you have to surround him with a lot of talent just to have a chance.
Is this news? How many players in the NBA can be built around like Timmy and Shaq? Again, what's your point? That you need to surround Bosh with more pieces than say, Shaq or Duncan? That's great, we can all agree on that. KG needed Ray Allen and Paul Pierce to win a ring, don't you think Bosh could make some noise in the playoffs on a team with similar talent? Has Bosh ever played with a talent of that caliber?

Understatement of the thread.
You're telling me. If I knew your argument basically came down to Duncan, LeBron, Shaq > Bosh to build your team around, I wouldn't have wasted my time :lol.

[DPG21920]

I don't want to keep showing you how you are wrong and how you lack the ability to tie things together. What is your argument on bosh? That he has not had enough time to prove anything nor the cast? What is your take?

[JustBlaze]

Stupid kid pointing out what's obvious, not once but twice throughout the video.:lmao

[resistanze]

I don't want to keep showing you how you are wrong and how you lack the ability to tie things together. What is your argument on bosh? That he has not had enough time to prove anything nor the cast? What is your take?

The team Colangelo has built around Bosh won't to do any damage, as they one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. That's not on Bosh, who is playing out of his mind. KG, who you defended failed for a good decade - Bosh hasn't played nearly as long. I think it's obvious you cant build a team around Bosh like, say Duncan in 2003. But if you think Bosh has had ample opportunity to prove anything based on his cast well...let's agree to disagree. Hopefully he'll leave the Raptors and join a half decent team and we'll see how far he goes.

Go ahead and gimme your take.