Obama approves targeted assassination of US citizen

[DarrinS]

Moral clarity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/06/anwar-alaulaqi-added-to-c_n_527976.html

[DarrinS]

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has authorized the killing of a radical Muslim cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen believed to be hiding in Yemen and thought to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the U.S. to participating in them, according to published reports.

Al-Awlaki has emerged as a prominent al-Qaida recruiter and has been tied by U.S. intelligence to the 9/11 hijackers, along with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day, as well as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people in November at Fort Hood, Texas.

American counterterrorism officials say they believe al-Awlaki has become a recruiter for al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula terrorist network, feeding prospects into plots aimed at the U.S. and at Americans abroad, the officials told The New York Times in a report posted online late Tuesday.

It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials told the newspaper. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president.

Al-Awlaki, 38, recently was added to the CIA target list after a special government review of his activities, prompted by his status as a U.S. citizen, U.S. officials told the Los Angeles Times. He is to be captured or killed, the newspaper said.

Al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen born in New Mexico to Yemeni parents, has used his personal Web site to encourage Muslims around the world to kill U.S. troops in Iraq. Yemeni security officials say they believe he is hiding in a region of the mountainous nation that has become a refuge for Islamic militants.

[DarrinS]

No due process. No miranda rights. No outrage.

[Yonivore]

No due process. No miranda rights. No outrage.
Dude! It's Obama.

[DarrinS]

I figured Winhole and others would be really steamed about this.

Just think if they had captured and waterboarded this guy <GASP>.

But, they're cool with him being shot in the head.

[TeyshaBlue]

Can a citizen be an enemy combatant?

[ElNono]

Can a citizen be an enemy combatant?

Not since 2009...

[TeyshaBlue]

Not since 2009...

That pretty much sews this up then. How're we gonna constitutionally order a hit on a citizen?

[Yonivore]

That pretty much sews this up then. How're we gonna constitutionally order a hit on a citizen?
Apparently, Obama thinks otherwise...

U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)

Not that I have a problem with it.

[ChumpDumper]

But for many legal experts, the question remains: Is it legal for the US to target an American citizen?

The answer probably is yes, says Mike Newton, a law professor at Vanderbilt University. If the US could prove that Awlaki is a “direct participant” in a conflict – terrorist operations against the US, for example – then killing Awlaki would probably pass legal muster, he says.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2010/0407/Anwar-al-Awlaki-Is-it-legal-to-kill-an-American-in-war-on-terror

Haven't seen any say it's illegal yet, but just started looking.

[EmptyMan]

I bet Alex Jones is ******* a brick right now!


Note to self, remember to tune in for the :blah:lol

[Yonivore]

I bet Alex Jones is ******* a brick right now!


Note to self, remember to tune in for the :blah:lol
Maybe he'll rupture something and need to give it a rest for awhile.

[Yonivore]

This does make me wonder if President Obama may be destined for a Spanish jail cell...

Who remembers when the Spaniards claimed universal jurisdiction (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/29/spain-israel-gaza-crimes-humanity) to seek the arrest and prosecution of Israelis, in Spanish Courts, for crimes against humanity in Gaza?

Similarly, who remembers those same Spaniards going after the Bush administration at the urging of Leftist groups (http://harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-90004640)?

With the uproar over Obama's drone attacks (http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/06/did-obama-just-commit-war-crime.html) and now, this "illegal (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07/assassinations)" hit being order...surely, it's only a matter of time before the left and the Spaniards call for Obama to be tried in Spain, right?

[LnGrrrR]

Good post... I don't see how it can be constitutional, frankly. It would set an extremely bad precedent; who's to say the President can't just then choose anyone he wishes for "targeted assassination"?

Edit: Don't get me wrong; if he's doing what the government says he's doing, I'd like to see him dead too.

I just don't trust the government as much as some conservatives/Republicans on this board seem to.

[ElNono]

We discussed this a few months back. I can't believe nobody remembers. I would have to dig up the thread. This has nothing to do with 'enemy combatants' and the MCA though.

EDIT: Looks like it was rubber stamped by Congress in the MCA of 2006. That said, the authority do so might come from earlier than that.

[ElNono]

Here they are:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145894
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145880

[Winehole23]

American counterterrorism officials say they believe al-Awlaki has become a recruiter for al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula terrorist network, feeding prospects into plots aimed at the U.S. and at Americans abroad, the officials told The New York Times in a report posted online late Tuesday.So then, based on the "beliefs" of anonymous government sources about the activities of a US citizen, that citizen can be targeted for assassination without any finding of fault, any due process, or any oversight or transparency whatsoever. And this is supposed to make us feel safer.

Un-flipping-believable.

[Oh, Gee!!]

darrins and yoni looking out for the interests of a known terrorist/al-quaeda recruiter. keep up the important work, guys!

[Winehole23]

Incomplete Picture on Justification for Killing American Citizen (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/04/incomplete-picture-on-justification-for-killing-american-citizen/38592/)

Apr 7 2010, 12:13 PM ET
Officials in the Obama administration have confirmed (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?partner=rss&emc=rss), three months after it was first reported (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/26/AR2010012604239.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010012700394), that the White House has authorized the CIA and Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) to target American citizen and alleged terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki for killing. In acknowledging the decision, the administration has explained its rationale for the first time. But the official explanation for why Awlaki merits targeted killing without judicial review, an extraordinary and unprecedented expansion of the U.S. war on terror, paints an unclear picture. Killing an American citizen without trial or a judge's approval is, to put it lightly, a big deal. Does Anwar al-Awlaki, a New Mexico-born cleric who now dispatches fiery anti-American sermons from Yemen and has been loosely tied to the Fort Hood and Flight 253 incidents, really meet the threshold?

When the decision to target Awlaki was first reported, the most logical rationale seemed to be that his high-profile presence on jihadist web sites allowed him to recruit (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/02/what-gets-an-american-on-the-white-house-kill-list/35430/) for al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the al-Qaeda offshoot in Yemen. Since then, the slow trickle of information about the U.S. case against Awlaki has not added much. Anonymous U.S. officials tell the New York Times that Awlaki is a "recruiter for the terrorist network." Any legal authority for targeting Awlaki requires that he pose an extreme and immediate threat (http://washingtonindependent.com/81550/why-is-it-legal-to-kill-anwar-al-awlaki) to U.S. national security. Clearly, recruiting potential terrorists would be a serious crime. But does that make him a terrorist, let alone one meriting targeted killing? That's the case administration officials are making.

Of course, Awlaki may be much more than just a recruiter. But a source speaking to David Ignatius, who is famously well sourced within the CIA, refers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032503634.html) to Awlaki "go[ing] operational" in November 2009. If true, it would mean that Awlaki is directly involved in planning terrorist attacks, and would strengthen the administration's case to justify targeted killing. But there are reasons to doubt Awlaki has crossed the line from calling for jihad to actively pursuing it. He has no battlefield experience, having spent his twenties preaching in Colorado and California mosques. One of the primary reasons al-Qaeda terrorists are so dangerous is the wartime experience they earned in the brutal conflicts in Afghanistan and, more recently, Iraq. Furthermore, there are doubts about whether Awlaki is close enough to AQAP, which has an effective monopoly on anti-Western terrorism in Yemen, for him to actively participate in terror plots. Counter-terrorism expert and al-Qaeda watcher Leah Farrall (http://allthingsct.wordpress.com/about/) tells me, "I am extremely skeptical he's even with let alone member of AQAP." If the prominent cleric was a member, she says, the highly media-conscious AQAP "would milk it for all it's worth" as "propaganda gold."

So why did Rep. Jane Harman, who chairs the House Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment, call (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) Awlaki, "probably the person, the terrorist, who would be terrorist No. 1 in terms of threat" against the U.S.? The publicly available information does not clearly make the case that he is. It's virtually certain that the administration has relevant intelligence on Awlaki that it can't share. Without the missing pieces of this puzzle, it's impossible to know exactly why Awlaki has become one of the only U.S. citizens ever publicly targeted for killing by the U.S. government.

[Nbadan]

darrins and yoni looking out for the interests of a known terrorist/al-quaeda recruiter. keep up the important work, guys!

Seriously, Obama can't win with these ass-hats - if he wouldn't gone after Awlaki he would be a appeaser instead....

[Winehole23]

So instead he chooses to out-do Bush in expanding the powers of his office, by infringing on the liberty of Americans. Great.

[LnGrrrR]

So why did Rep. Jane Harman, who chairs the House Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment, call (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) Awlaki, "probably the person, the terrorist, who would be terrorist No. 1 in terms of threat" against the U.S.? The publicly available information does not clearly make the case that he is. It's virtually certain that the administration has relevant intelligence on Awlaki that it can't share. Without the missing pieces of this puzzle, it's impossible to know exactly why Awlaki has become one of the only U.S. citizens ever publicly targeted for killing by the U.S. government.

I think the answer to this is "because she's a scum sucking amoeba".

[DarrinS]

darrins and yoni looking out for the interests of a known terrorist/al-quaeda recruiter. keep up the important work, guys!


Actually, I'm all for the assassination of this shithead. I was just pointing out how quiet libs have been about this.


At least Winehole is consistent when it comes to principles he believes in.

[Winehole23]

I was just pointing out how quiet libs have been about this. Very quiet.

The antiwar and civil liberties lefties who were screaming their heads off about unnecessary wars and and the threat to rule of law have mostly fallen silent since November 2008. (Glenn Greenwald is a notable exception. )

[Winehole23]

It's the mirror image of Republicans who rediscovered fiscal probity and small government after they lost their Congressional majorities and the Presidency.

[LnGrrrR]

Actually, I'm all for the assassination of this shithead. I was just pointing out how quiet libs have been about this.


At least Winehole is consistent when it comes to principles he believes in.

I don't seem to remember going back on my civil liberties bona fides. :)

[Winehole23]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinunderhill/2012/03/05/attorney-general-explains-why-its-okay-to-kill-u-s-citizens-without-a-trial/

[Winehole23]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/holder-targeted-killing/

[Winehole23]

http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/05/eric-holder-says-the-us-government-can-k

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did his parents or children ever try to bring a wrongful death suit against the feds?

[Winehole23]

http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/03/05/prepared-remarks-holders-address-at-northwestern-university/

[Jacob1983]

When Bush did illegal and unethical things as president, liberals and Democrats were caling for him to be arrested and tried for war crimes. Now that Obama is president, liberals and Democrats simply comply with their leader and have no objections. They basically support all the things that Obama does even though both they and Obama objected to the same things that Obama is now supporting and doing. It's really a fuckin joke when you think about it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When Bush did illegal and unethical things as president, liberals and Democrats were caling for him to be arrested and tried for war crimes. Now that Obama is president, liberals and Democrats simply comply with their leader and have no objections. They basically support all the things that Obama does even though both they and Obama objected to the same things that Obama is now supporting and doing. It's really a fuckin joke when you think about it.

Bullshit. All kinds of liberals bitch about this constantly as can be seen here and elsewhere. If you want to start about party politics then that is something quite different but when it comes to closing ranks the Democrats do not hold a candle to the GOP.

[Jacob1983]

Both parties are war parties.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Both parties are war parties.

Oh i don't see a major shift in American foreign policy over the last 50 years. We started going to war to open markets for our use back in the 19th century and have never looked back.

[SA210]

Both parties are war parties.

Lotta blood on their hands.

[Winehole23]

ours too, we keep electing em

[Winehole23]

But the most important point is that Holder is not confining this assassination power to circumstances where “capture is not feasible.” To the contrary, he specifically said that killing “would be lawful at least in the following circumstances”: meaning that the President’s asserted power is not confined to those conditions. As Charlie Savage wrote: “Significantly, Mr. Holder did not say that such a situation is the only kind in which it would be lawful to kill a citizen. Rather, he said it would be lawful ‘at least’ under those conditions.” We have no idea how far the Obama administration believes its assassination power extends because it refuses to release the legal memorandum justifying it; there is no legal framework governing it; and there is no transparency or accountability for the President’s execution orders.http://www.salon.com/2012/03/06/attorney_general_holder_defends_execution_without_ charges/singleton/

[Winehole23]

meet the new boss, same as the old boss:


"Due process is not merely an old and dusty procedural obligation required by Robert’s Rules. Instead, it is a living, breathing concept that protects U.S. persons from overreaching government action even, perhaps, on an occasion of war," wrote Collyer, an appointee of President George W. Bush. "As a U.S. citizen, he seeks to clarify his status and profession to Defendants and, thereby, assert his right to due process and a prior opportunity to be heard. His interest in avoiding the erroneous deprivation of his life is uniquely compelling."https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2018/06/13/judge-green-lights-kill-list-lawsuit-645584

[RandomGuy]

meet the new boss, same as the old boss:

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2018/06/13/judge-green-lights-kill-list-lawsuit-645584

Pshaw. I'm sure Darrin is fine with the policy because ... magic R. (sigh)

[Winehole23]

Magic D seemed to work about as well for the other side.

I agree with neither.

[Winehole23]

To be fair, board Republicans were mostly on board with Obama's targeted assassinations too.

[Winehole23]

Both parties are war parties.WE ARE ALL WAR BABIES

[TeyshaBlue]

I find the recent emergence of duckshole23 strangely uncomfortable.

[TeyshaBlue]

Kinda like encountering Ebert from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.