Marcus Williams(the one we drafted in 2007)

[draft87]

This was on ESPN:

Pacers to sign Williams?

5:17AM ET
Indiana Pacers

Top (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#TOP) Email (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#)

http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/med/trans/ind.gif (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind)There was a report yesterday that the Pacers were going to sign Marcus Williams out of the D-League, however, according to The Indianapolis Star (http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/04/do_you_think_th.html) they're on the fence about him or anyone else.
If a player is signed it would be for the rest of this season and next season, although the second year would not be guaranteed.




Rumors page really is lame, huh? This is a non-story.


"The Pacers might want Williams, but they might not."


Either way it reminded me of the guy. He didn't play this past summer league for us did he? I can't remember if people were able to find out what's up with him. How's he developing? Did we cut ties with him?

I remember reading about how he played point-forward last year for the Toros and his ball handling skills could be valuable considering his size. Prior to Garrett Temple I'd say that we definitely need size in the backcourt.

So now that we're thinking of Marcus Williams let's ask a few questions.
If he is a possibility for this year's summer league, is he worth checking out? Do we like Temple enough as our 3rd string point guard/big backcourt defender?

If we're totally without spending room this summer after Manu's contract and we keep RJ is it realistic to think that we've developed enough to have the perimeter look like this:

Parker-Temple
Hill-Manu-Williams
RJ-Hairston

That's a pretty cost effective way to fill the roster and it on paper looks like a good way to rectify the size situation we currently have. No more 6'5" swingmen(Bogans, Mason). ....That is, if the front office concedes that our current roster can't handle the larger and longer perimeter guys coming into the league.

And Hairston, Temple, Williams will all be in the under-$1,000,000 price range. Considering that (Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, McDyess, Hill, and Blair) our payroll for 7 players including RJ is about $67 million already, I think the front office will try something like this. We'll already be trying to throw whatever we have left at Tiago Splitter. Before we consider resigning Bonner the front court would be Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Splitter. There's still plenty of roster space.

What do you think is the right approach? and if the front office goes this route, what do you think?

[stnick2261]

He was in training camp as a PG (in a SF body)... he was the last guy cut and some people wanted him over Bogans... it came down to Williams, Hairston and Bogans for the last 2 spots and Williams lost

[Mel_13]

He was in training camp as a PG (in a SF body)... he was the last guy cut and some people wanted him over Bogans... it came down to Williams, Hairston and Bogans for the last 2 spots and Williams lost

It was between Williams and Hairston. Bogans had a guaranteed contract. The decision was between the two players without guaranteed contracts. Hairston won.

[TimDunkem]

I'm pretty sure he's the same type of player Garrett Temple is.

[HarlemHeat37]

He is the same player as Temple except with worse athleticism..

Williams doesn't have the physical tools to make it in the NBA IMO..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The guy has a terrible attitude (at least in college he did) and has the IQ of a snail. Fucker ruined any chance at an NBA career by not staying in college and maturing.

[Johnny RIngo]

I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz, but Spurs would have been much better off drafting Marc Gasol with that 2nd round pick.

[DesignatedT]

I have never been impressed with Williams.

[ChumpDumper]

We'll find out if he plays tonight in the opening game of the Toros' playoffs.

[Ocotillo]

The Marcus Williams chapter is over in Spurs history. Well, I guess he ended up being more of a footnote.

[Austin_Toros]

He was in training camp as a PG (in a SF body)... he was the last guy cut and some people wanted him over Bogans... it came down to Williams, Hairston and Bogans for the last 2 spots and Williams lost

Williams was robbed.

[ChumpDumper]

He's not playing, so the rumor is probably true.

[ohmwrecker]

Should have drafted Marc Gasol instead.
. . . but, would the Grizzlies have traded Pau to the Spurs for him?

[tp2021]

The inevitable A_T sighting

[mogrovejo]

He's not playing, so the rumor is probably true.

Rumour is that he turned down the Pacers. Do the Spurs still have roster spots available?

[Mel_13]

Rumour is that he turned down the Pacers. Do the Spurs still have roster spots available?

No

[ChumpDumper]

Rumour is that he turned down the Pacers. Do the Spurs still have roster spots available?No. I guess someone else must be making an offer.

[TD 21]

It's interesting that the Spurs, who seemed sold on Williams being an NBA player last year around this time, didn't even sign him when they freed up three roster spots throughout the season. I agree with Harlem, he lacks the physical tools to be an NBA player. But still, for as high as the Spurs were on him, I'm surprised they didn't bring him back.

This notion of having Duncan, McDyess, Bonner, Blair AND Splitter in the front court next season is not realistic. Too expensive and not enough playing time. If Splitter signs, McDyess is more than likely going to be traded. There's an outside chance that the Spurs just won't re-sign Bonner, but I doubt it. They're obsessed with having a stretch four, plus he is and will be cheaper than McDyess and then there's the case of role definition. Blair figures to improve in the off season and McDyess, even with his struggles this season, is still better than a fourth big. Bonner, on the other hand, that's ideally what he is, despite Pop's insistence on having him higher on the depth chart than that.

I would like to see Duncan, Splitter, McDyess and Blair, but it's not happening. Mahinmi is also gone. We're looking at: Duncan, Splitter or McDyess, Blair and Bonner. Fifth big could come via the draft or a cheap, minimum salaried player like Anthony, who's a shot blocker.

Hairston and Gee will likely be competing for one spot, as will Temple and Jerrells. Bogans will probably be re-signed because he figures to be cheaper than Bell, who is probably the best the Spurs could do to fill the wing stopper role. Second round pick, if it's not an international player, throw it into the mix with the D-League guys competing for a roster spot. So basically, don't expect much change next season, which is fine. This team is two moves and health away from being contenders again.

[mogrovejo]

It's interesting that the Spurs, who seemed sold on Williams being an NBA player last year around this time, didn't even sign him when they freed up three roster spots throughout the season. I agree with Harlem, he lacks the physical tools to be an NBA player. But still, for as high as the Spurs were on him, I'm surprised they didn't bring him back.

Was he available? He was in Puerto Rico or whatever, just returned to the D-League.

[exstatic]

It's interesting that the Spurs, who seemed sold on Williams being an NBA player last year around this time, didn't even sign him when they freed up three roster spots throughout the season. I agree with Harlem, he lacks the physical tools to be an NBA player. But still, for as high as the Spurs were on him, I'm surprised they didn't bring him back.

They just signed THREE players to the same kind of deal THIS year. Do you think they are "sold" on all of them being NBA players? Or, maybe they just want their options for SL and training camp. That's probably it.

I think they just saw themselves missing out on players like Azubuike in years past and were tired of it. Last year, we signed Williams AND Hairston, and Hairston stuck. Next year, maybe 2 of the 3 we signed might stick.

[TD 21]

No, he was in China, but he came back to the Toros a few weeks ago. If the Spurs really wanted him, they could have signed him.

[EricB]

I forget the roster the Spurs had back then, but had they been willing to give up Splitter's rights (back when we thought he would be coming the next season) the Spurs could have gotten either Pau or Artest. But money was still the issue with Pau and Pop didn't want to deal with the head case of Artest.


Didnt the Spurs come really close to getting Artest though?

[spursfaninla]

I would like to see Duncan, Splitter, McDyess and Blair, but it's not happening. Mahinmi is also gone. We're looking at: Duncan, Splitter or McDyess, Blair and Bonner. Fifth big could come via the draft or a cheap, minimum salaried player like Anthony, who's a shot blocker.

So basically, don't expect much change next season, which is fine. This team is two moves and health away from being contenders again.

What two spots on the rotation need to change? We have a solid rotation positions 1-3 except for the backup 3.

Our 4-5 rotation is kind of small. With Splitter, we get bigger and younger in the front court. With Blair a year more experience, we get better there too. the only issues really are the front court I think.

Hill is a great backup for manu and parker. We could use a better backup sf, but we don't have any money so that is not realistic.

[TD 21]

They just signed THREE players to the same kind of deal THIS year. Do you think they are "sold" on all of them being NBA players? Or, maybe they just want their options for SL and training camp. That's probably it.

I think they just saw themselves missing out on players like Azubuike in years past and were tired of it. Last year, we signed Williams AND Hairston, and Hairston stuck. Next year, maybe 2 of the 3 we signed might stick.

Learn to read. I never said they were sold on the three they signed, but they sure as hell seemed sold on Williams, the way they raved about him during summer league and acted like he was a difficult cut. They've kept him in the program for the better part of three seasons, which goes to show you how highly they think of him.

I'm not saying Williams should have been signed, all I'm saying is that it's interesting that he wasn't, given that they had three roster spots to play with and have liked him for three years (at least).


What two spots on the rotation need to change? We have a solid rotation positions 1-3 except for the backup 3.

Our 4-5 rotation is kind of small. With Splitter, we get bigger and younger in the front court. With Blair a year more experience, we get better there too. the only issues really are the front court I think.

Hill is a great backup for manu and parker. We could use a better backup sf, but we don't have any money so that is not realistic.

The two spots are 1) They need another center sized big who can guard mobile, face-up four's, take a turn on five's and serve as some semblance of a rim protector and 2) They need a longer, quicker, more athletic, better three point shooter to fill the wing defender role (Batum would be ideal).

If he signs, Splitter takes care of the former. Unfortunately, the Spurs likely won't be able to acquire the latter. Bell is probably the best realistic option.

"Kind of small" is a nice way of putting it. I prefer the term severely undersized. They're playing with one center sized big and he considers himself a power forward. If Splitter is signed, he along with Blair's improvement could instantly make this a formidable front court. Unfortunately, if Splitter signs, McDyess will likely be traded. An ideal front court would feature all four of the aforementioned players.

[Mel_13]

Unfortunately, if Splitter signs, McDyess will likely be traded.

I don't follow your line of reasoning here. Why do you think this is so and what do you expect they'll try to get in return?

[TD 21]

This notion of having Duncan, McDyess, Bonner, Blair AND Splitter in the front court next season is not realistic. Too expensive and not enough playing time. If Splitter signs, McDyess is more than likely going to be traded. There's an outside chance that the Spurs just won't re-sign Bonner, but I doubt it. They're obsessed with having a stretch four, plus he is and will be cheaper than McDyess and then there's the case of role definition. Blair figures to improve in the off season and McDyess, even with his struggles this season, is still better than a fourth big. Bonner, on the other hand, that's ideally what he is, despite Pop's insistence on having him higher on the depth chart than that.


I don't follow your line of reasoning here. Why do you think this is so and what do you expect they'll try to get in return?

In return, I suspect they seek out a team with cap space that can flat out take him off their hands, maybe for a future second round pick or something else minor and if not that, then for a partially guaranteed contract. One I know off the top of my head is Jones (of the Heat).

[Mel_13]

In return, I suspect they seek out a team with cap space that can flat out take him off their hands, maybe for a future second round pick or something else minor and if not that, then for a partially guaranteed contract. One I know off the top of my head is Jones (of the Heat).

OK.

We'll see, but I doubt any team with cap space will be interested in taking Dice's contract and reducing the funds available to chase FAs.

I believe Miami is more likely to cut Jones and increase their cap space than to trade him. Trading for Dice instead of cutting Jones would decrease their cap space by roughly 3M.

While it may be very difficult to find a team to take Dice's salary off the books, he could be traded for players to fill other positions of need.

It's also possible that they keep Dice and find a cheaper version of Bonner like Steve Novak or Brian Cook.

[TD 21]

OK.

We'll see, but I doubt any team with cap space will be interested in taking Dice's contract and reducing the funds available to chase FAs.

I believe Miami is more likely to cut Jones and increase their cap space than to trade him. Trading for Dice instead of cutting Jones would decrease their cap space by roughly 3M.

While it may be very difficult to find a team to take Dice's salary off the books, he could be traded for players to fill other positions of need.

It's also possible that they keep Dice and find a cheaper version of Bonner like Steve Novak or Brian Cook.

A lot of teams won't get what they want and will be desperate. Good teams are always looking for veteran bigs who know how to play, plus McDyess has only one guaranteed year remaining.

You're right about the Heat and Jones, he was just an example off the top of my head.

He could be traded for that and if he is, it'll be an inexpensive depth player or two, similar to the Nesterovic for Bonner and Williams deal in '06.

That is possible and ideal, but I doubt it happens. How much will Holt pay? McDyess is more expensive than Bonner and would he accept potentially being relegated to fourth big status?

[Mel_13]

A lot of teams won't get what they want and will be desperate. Good teams are always looking for veteran bigs who know how to play, plus McDyess has only one guaranteed year remaining.

You're right about the Heat and Jones, he was just an example off the top of my head.

He could be traded for that and if he is, it'll be an inexpensive depth player or two, similar to the Nesterovic for Bonner and Williams deal in '06.

That is possible and ideal, but I doubt it happens. How much will Holt pay? McDyess is more expensive than Bonner and would he accept potentially being relegated to fourth big status?

Time will tell. The answers to these questions will still be greatly affected by how far the team goes in the playoffs and how individual players perform. Based on their histories, it's possible that Dice shines and Bonner comes up small.

To me, the Manu extension supports the notion that when Holt went all-in last summer it meant that he was committed for at least two seasons deep in the luxury tax. Since we don't see the books, there's no way to know exactly how deep he's willing to go. Let's hope for a long playoff run with lots of sold out home games to improve Holt's bottom line.

[TD 21]

Time will tell. The answers to these questions will still be greatly affected by how far the team goes in the playoffs and how individual players perform. Based on their histories, it's possible that Dice shines and Bonner comes up small.

To me, the Manu extension supports the notion that when Holt went all-in last summer it meant that he was committed for at least two seasons deep in the luxury tax. Since we don't see the books, there's no way to know exactly how deep he's willing to go. Let's hope for a long playoff run with lots of sold out home games to improve Holt's bottom line.

Unfortunately, I think this decision will be more based on finances rather than playoff performance. The reality is the Spurs are obsessed with having a stretch four, Bonner fills that role, is affordable and knows the system. Novak is really a three (only a four in specific match-ups), Cook is worse than Bonner and if the Spurs signed either, they'd be the fifth big, meaning they wouldn't be in the rotation. Personally, I'm all for this, but I'm not the one making decisions. My gut is they keep Bonner and trade McDyess if Splitter signs.

For a team that values the three point shot greatly, I doubt we see a rotation featuring only three three point threats and only two of which are high percentage shooters.

True, we don't know how deep Holt will go, but I get the sense that the Spurs won't significantly increase their payroll, even though they're a Splitter signing (assuming they keep McDyess), a wing defender upgrade and health away from probably at least making it back to the finals.

[mogrovejo]

No, he was in China, but he came back to the Toros a few weeks ago. If the Spurs really wanted him, they could have signed him.

Yeah, he came back the 24th and the Spurs signed Gee the 28th. I still think the Spurs are behind this. He turned down $100K to play Summer League and the training camp for the Pacers. Nobody really likes to play the D-League playoffs that much.


I would like to see Duncan, Splitter, McDyess and Blair, but it's not happening.

That would be too much slowness and not enough shooting.