Thoughts on the Suns game.

[roycrikside]

To start with, I'm not upset or disappointed that we lost. The Suns were rested and are firing on all cylinders, while we were on the second night of a back-to-back and missing one of our best players in Hill.

There were facets of the game that do concern me going forward though. For one, I don't understand what Pop is doing with his rotations at all. I mean, I know we all made fun of him for calling Bogans "The Centerpiece" and all, but that doesn't mean that Bogans shouldn't be in the rotation at all, and certainly not because of Mason taking his spot.

I don't understand what in the world prompted Pop to give Mason 31 mins (team worst -20) while giving Bogans a DNP-CD. I'm hopeful that it was just a simple case of giving a veteran a day off, but I'm afraid it's not. If we're going to go with a 10-man rotation in the playoffs than Bogans should be 9th and Mason 10th. If we're going with a 9-man rotation, Mason shouldn't play at all. Please tell me that this was Pop just burning some minutes to give other guys rest.

The other thing has to do with Tony, and no, I'm not going to turn this into a Tony v. Manu thing. It is true that Ginobili has had two consecutive sub-par games and that they've coincided with Parker's return, but for now I'm just going to chalk it up to Manu being tired until we have a few more games of sample size. Manu started off well last night, but then it became apparent that he's exhausted. Let's see how he looks against the Grizzlies after a day off.

What does concern me about Tony is this: I, like many on the board, thought his broken hand would actually be a blessing in disguise, and that while his hand was healing his foot and hip would as well. I thought that the Tony Parker we'd see when he came back would be the quickest TP we'd get all year. I wasn't expecting him to be 100%, but at least 90.

Unfortunately, through two games it's become apparent that the four weeks off healed his hand but little else. Parker looked noticeably slower than Nash, couldn't cut, couldn't explode, and there was just nothing special or remarkable about him at all.

Again, it's only been two games, and I realize that rust is to be expected, but I'm not talking about a balky jump shot or a missed layup. I'm talking about his speed, or lack there of. He still looks like the same guy that missed a bunch of games and was a liability in most of the ones he played. That's not a good sign for us.

It's only two games. Maybe he'll feel better and get used to NBA game speed again and regain what made him a good player. But still, I feel I must ask the obvious question:

If this is the TP we're going to get the rest of the way, how much good does it do us?

I know it wasn't a huge sample size, only 15 games or whatever, but the team did stumble upon a winning formula with him out. They had some semblance of a rotation. They had a clear hierarchy of shots and roles, almost like a real team. They were beating good squads.

That team might have been longshots to win the title, but at least they had a shot. Wouldn't it be wiser to return to that formula, as much as we can?

I'm not saying I want Tony in a suit, but if the Parker we've seen these two games is all he can provide, then he should only replace Mason in the rotation and be a 20-min bench player. He should not replace RJ, Hill or Manu in the starting lineup. No matter what you think of each of them individually, this team has made a lot of hay with that trio and we should ride them for all they're worth.

The next couple of games should be interesting...


(alright, flame away)

[Mel_13]

I don't understand what in the world prompted Pop to give Mason 31 mins (team worst -20) while giving Bogans a DNP-CD. I'm hopeful that it was just a simple case of giving a veteran a day off, but I'm afraid it's not.

Bogans tweaked an ankle in the New Jersey game. He played very limited minutes against Houston and Orlando before getting his typical minutes against the Lakers and Kings. Last night was the third game in four nights, so it seems more likely that he was kept on the bench due to the ankle rather than because of a rotation change.

[Manudo Flopo]

Excuses excuses...assholes welcome to reality!!

[anakha]

Excuses excuses...assholes welcome to reality!!

Hi Louis.

[spursfaninla]

Good take.

Premise: that TP is limited physically outside of his hand, hampering his speed, and mitigating his benefit to the team.

Argument: if TP is limited, his role should be smaller than it would have been otherwise, giving his minutes and touches to hill, manu, rj.

That sounds very reasonable. However, the premise, although having some evidence (he did look slower lately) is not definitive: tony got layups several times, so it is not clear to me that he is so limited.

He is not 100% with his speed, but it could still be him getting into game shape and rhythm again.

However, if your premise is correct, we do hopefully have the option of working in Hill for the playoffs.

However, you assume that Hill will be back to his prior play; after 2 weeks off, and an injury not to a hand but an ankle, he will probably need more time that parker would have.

[honestfool84]

I don't understand what in the world prompted Pop to give Mason 31 mins (team worst -20) while giving Bogans a DNP-CD. I'm hopeful that it was just a simple case of giving a veteran a day off, but I'm afraid it's not.

Mason scored 18 points.. WTF are you complaining?!

[spurtech09]

yeah wasn't disappointed at all eighter...kinda saw this coming.....spurs b2b road games......suns 3 days off and at home .....suns don't really scare me spurs can beat the suns

[hunterxaz]

You guys got completely punked, and you're just making excuses. You better hope you don't end up facing the Suns in the 1st round, damn -- revenge is sweet.

[kaji157]

You guys got completely punked, and you're just making excuses. You better hope you don't end up facing the Suns in the 1st round, damn -- revenge is sweet.

I hope we do, so you could make new youtube videos of how you woulda/coulda/shoulda beat us.

[spurtech09]

well if the spurs would play the suns in the first round that would be another early exit for the suns....:)

[bus driver]

it sucked we lost

[ohmwrecker]

So, now everyone is upset because Bogans did NOT play?! You do all realize how crazy you sound, right?

[TD 21]

Mel_13 covered why Bogans wasn't playing. To add to that, the playoff rotation is set; and Bogans is in it. The one thing we don't know is who will start at the point: Parker or Hill. The way Ginobili is playing, I don't see him going back to the bench. Not unless the Spurs go down 0-2 in the playoffs and Pop inevitably makes the move to provide a spark. If Parker continues to lack any semblance of burst in these next couple of games and Hill can come back in short order and pick up where he left off, then I wouldn't be shocked if Parker came off the bench to start the playoffs.

As for the Suns game, as I said last night, I take nothing from this game. The result and the way it all unfolded was predictable. At full strength if the two teams were to meet in the playoffs, the Spurs would win in six.

[ohmwrecker]

One of the most interesting parts of the game was the excessive celebrating on the Suns bench when they started to put us away in the 4th. They knew that they weren't getting the Spurs full tilt boogie. Alvin Gentry was quick to tell his team how the Spurs played the previous night and they were playing a tired team. They were just so happy to beat us that they could not contain their joy.
I've noticed this a few times this year. There are a lot of teams who relish in beating the Spurs. I'm not blaming them for taking advantage of a Spurs team that is struggling, injury depleted, aging, etc., but it is surprising how much more enjoyable a victory over the Spurs is for some of these teams.
I realize that I am interpreting this phenomena as a Spurs fan and my attitude is skewed, but I guess my point is that I hope that this serves as a motivating factor for the Spurs to get some revenge on these teams who derived so much satisfaction from kicking them when they were down.

[Mel_13]

One of the most interesting parts of the game was the excessive celebrating on the Suns bench when they started to put us away in the 4th. They knew that they weren't getting the Spurs full tilt boogie. Alvin Gentry was quick to tell his team how the Spurs played the previous night and they were playing a tired team. They were just so happy to beat us that they could not contain their joy.
I've noticed this a few times this year. There are a lot of teams who relish in beating the Spurs. I'm not blaming them for taking advantage of a Spurs team that is struggling, injury depleted, aging, etc., but it is surprising how much more enjoyable a victory over the Spurs is for some of these teams.
I realize that I am interpreting this phenomena as a Spurs fan and my attitude is skewed, but I guess my point is that I hope that this serves as a motivating factor for the Spurs to get some revenge on these teams who derived so much satisfaction from kicking them when they were down.

For many years the Spurs would relentlessly grind their opposition into dust. It's understandable that victories over the Spurs are especially sweet for opposing players.

Take Nash, for example. Prior to this season, Nash has made the playoffs 10 times in 13 years. In six of those 10 playoff runs, his team was eliminated by the Spurs. Six separate times Nash had to shake Duncan's hand and say "good luck in the next round". So, while his joy at a regular season victory might seem excessive, it's easy to see where it comes from.

[pawe]

Pop played Mason because he knows Mason owns the Suns. Pop probably counted on his confidence level against them.

[hunterxaz]

Pop played Mason because he knows Mason owns the Suns. Pop probably counted on his confidence level against them.
Mason owns the Suns so hard that the Spurs are 1-2 against the Suns this season.

[SpursFanInAustin]

Mason owns the Suns so hard that the Spurs are 1-2 against the Suns this season.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/Kaileo/Cats%20and%20Kittens/ThatsNotFunny.jpg

[Frenzy]

Hi Louis.

are we all calling him louis?

[phyzik]

are we all calling him louis?

Louis is a legendary Rockets fan troll who creates a login for whatever team is beating the Spurs so he can talk shit.

[Oh, Gee!!]

spurs have looked good recently against some good teams, so I'm not too concerned with this loss. My main concern is how they'll do on the road versus the Lakers if they're fortunate enough to get to the WCF. Actually, I'm concerned with how well they'll do on the road period.

[raspsa]

Perhaps it would be better to take a step back and not try to dissect every decision Pop makes.. there are so many obvious reasons why he does thing a certain way and many other factors influencing his decision that we will never be privy to or even be aware of. So rather than go nut agonizing over why this? or whythat? I just sit back and appreciate each game as it unfolds.

[Xylus]

One of the most interesting parts of the game was the excessive celebrating on the Suns bench when they started to put us away in the 4th. They knew that they weren't getting the Spurs full tilt boogie. Alvin Gentry was quick to tell his team how the Spurs played the previous night and they were playing a tired team. They were just so happy to beat us that they could not contain their joy.
I've noticed this a few times this year. There are a lot of teams who relish in beating the Spurs. I'm not blaming them for taking advantage of a Spurs team that is struggling, injury depleted, aging, etc., but it is surprising how much more enjoyable a victory over the Spurs is for some of these teams.
I realize that I am interpreting this phenomena as a Spurs fan and my attitude is skewed, but I guess my point is that I hope that this serves as a motivating factor for the Spurs to get some revenge on these teams who derived so much satisfaction from kicking them when they were down.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Spurs. The Suns were celebrating because Goran Dragic, who everyone on the team loves, was having a great game against a great team in crunch time. Everyone in Phoenix sees him as the point guard of the future and watching him succeed is a pleasure for both Suns players and Suns fans.

That's my take, anyway.

[silverblackfan]

I don't think it has anything to do with the Spurs. The Suns were celebrating because Goran Dragic, who everyone on the team loves, was having a great game against a great team in crunch time. Everyone in Phoenix sees him as the point guard of the future and watching him succeed is a pleasure for both Suns players and Suns fans.

That's my take, anyway.

I can buy that. It is nice to see a young talent blossom in front of the team against a tough opponent.
Then again, you know they like to get every win against the Spurs.
Too much history.

[TJastal]

To start with, I'm not upset or disappointed that we lost. The Suns were rested and are firing on all cylinders, while we were on the second night of a back-to-back and missing one of our best players in Hill.

There were facets of the game that do concern me going forward though. For one, I don't understand what Pop is doing with his rotations at all. I mean, I know we all made fun of him for calling Bogans "The Centerpiece" and all, but that doesn't mean that Bogans shouldn't be in the rotation at all, and certainly not because of Mason taking his spot.

I don't understand what in the world prompted Pop to give Mason 31 mins (team worst -20) while giving Bogans a DNP-CD. I'm hopeful that it was just a simple case of giving a veteran a day off, but I'm afraid it's not. If we're going to go with a 10-man rotation in the playoffs than Bogans should be 9th and Mason 10th. If we're going with a 9-man rotation, Mason shouldn't play at all. Please tell me that this was Pop just burning some minutes to give other guys rest.

The other thing has to do with Tony, and no, I'm not going to turn this into a Tony v. Manu thing. It is true that Ginobili has had two consecutive sub-par games and that they've coincided with Parker's return, but for now I'm just going to chalk it up to Manu being tired until we have a few more games of sample size. Manu started off well last night, but then it became apparent that he's exhausted. Let's see how he looks against the Grizzlies after a day off.

What does concern me about Tony is this: I, like many on the board, thought his broken hand would actually be a blessing in disguise, and that while his hand was healing his foot and hip would as well. I thought that the Tony Parker we'd see when he came back would be the quickest TP we'd get all year. I wasn't expecting him to be 100%, but at least 90.

Unfortunately, through two games it's become apparent that the four weeks off healed his hand but little else. Parker looked noticeably slower than Nash, couldn't cut, couldn't explode, and there was just nothing special or remarkable about him at all.

Again, it's only been two games, and I realize that rust is to be expected, but I'm not talking about a balky jump shot or a missed layup. I'm talking about his speed, or lack there of. He still looks like the same guy that missed a bunch of games and was a liability in most of the ones he played. That's not a good sign for us.

It's only two games. Maybe he'll feel better and get used to NBA game speed again and regain what made him a good player. But still, I feel I must ask the obvious question:

If this is the TP we're going to get the rest of the way, how much good does it do us?

I know it wasn't a huge sample size, only 15 games or whatever, but the team did stumble upon a winning formula with him out. They had some semblance of a rotation. They had a clear hierarchy of shots and roles, almost like a real team. They were beating good squads.

That team might have been longshots to win the title, but at least they had a shot. Wouldn't it be wiser to return to that formula, as much as we can?

I'm not saying I want Tony in a suit, but if the Parker we've seen these two games is all he can provide, then he should only replace Mason in the rotation and be a 20-min bench player. He should not replace RJ, Hill or Manu in the starting lineup. No matter what you think of each of them individually, this team has made a lot of hay with that trio and we should ride them for all they're worth.

The next couple of games should be interesting...


(alright, flame away)

Even if Bogans was healthy his main talent (post defense) wasn't needed for the pick and roll oriented suns. Roger did quite well offensively, but apparently missed rotations on defense (I didn't notice but others say he did).

As for Parker I thought he looked like a guy who hasn't played basketball in a month. Rusty and not quite finishing those driving layups. He converted a few nice drives which reminded me of vintage Parker. The spurs are really going to need Parker, especially in the 2nd unit if the plan is to keep Manu and Hill in the starting lineup w/ Jefferson (which is the probably for the best). I think we need to give him at least a few more games to get his wind back before we judge what he's capable of (and whether or not the injuries that are slowing him down).

One of the problems right now IMO is Mason and Bonner should not be handling the ball and trying to create offense and now that Manu is playing heavy minutes with the starters that is basically what is happening, and its just not efficient. Mason especially seems to get stuck playing the most minutes with this unit and is the least effective of the pair at creating good shots. Enter Tony Parker, who all of a sudden takes charge of this unit and relieves Mason and Bonner from having to create offense which isn't really their strengths. Now they can do what they do best, which is spot up at the 3pt line and wait for a kick out.

Mason and Bogans are basically interchangeable as spot up shooters out there in the 2nd unit, of course being the Mason fan that I am, I'm partial to him. But I can see a need for Bogans as well with his tougher post defense.
Hairston even brings an athletic presence defensively that could have its uses.
Unfortunately for Malik he just hasn't gotten enough PT this year to get comfortable out there, I would have hoped Pop would have used him when Hill went down but Pop opted for the new guy, Garret Temple.

I'm not crazy about Temple tbh. I wouldn't have minded seeing him in summer league next year but Pop was really dumb to bring him aboard this late in the year and furthur dilute the rotation and minutes. Especially when guys like Hairston haven't really gotten much of a chance to show what they're capable of. The problem with Temple is he doesn't really have any defining skills that I can ascertain.. his forte was supposedly defense, but I have yet to see it.

Once Hill is back, I hope we won't see Temple again till next year.

[kace]

the sweetest thing is that TP will play 35 mpg and be a starter for the PO.

and all the haters, including the OP, will keep on opening threads and post to ask to play him 20 mpg or bench him because everything or everyone who is doing bad on this team is because of TP. :lol

that's the funny thing about these haters who want to look like bball expert. they keep on being fucked by Pop again and again.

OP, Enjoy seeing TP play 35 mpg and start in the PO :toast

[TJastal]

the sweetest thing is that TP will play 35 mpg and be a starter for the PO.

and all the haters, including the OP, will keep on opening threads and post to ask to play him 20 mpg or bench him because everything or everyone who is doing bad on this team is because of TP. :lol

that's the funny thing about these haters who want to look like bball expert. they keep on being fucked by Pop again and again.

OP, Enjoy seeing TP play 35 mpg and start in the PO :toast



I didn't say TP couldn't play 35 minutes. I just said the spurs need him in the 2nd unit so we don't have to watch Roger Mason and Matt Bonner try to create offense at the top of the key anymore.

I guess to TP homers like you he is "above" having to do such degrading tasks such as carry the 2nd unit... 6th men are low life scrubs who can't cut it as starters.... can't have people thinking that of Frenchie huh?

I'm sure if Parker is anything like his homers (you) he'll cry and ball if he isn't returned to the starting lineup and Pop will be forced to move Ginobili back to being the 6th man to help the 2nd unit, and the team will regress back to January.

[Frenzy]

Louis is a legendary Rockets fan troll who creates a login for whatever team is beating the Spurs so he can talk shit.

well dude is mad about something :lol