Start Glenn Robinson Versus Seattle

[timvp]

Replace Brent Barry in the starting lineup with Glenn Robinson. That way Bruce Bowen can guard Ray Allen and the Spurs can put Robinson on Rashard Lewis. It works out defensively much better than praying for Barry to suddenly be able to guard Lewis.

Robinson has the bulk to turn Lewis into a jump shooter, rather than him being able to post up. Bowen can work his magic on Allen. Barry can get minutes off the bench ... and even if he doesn't, it's not a huge loss. He shot .368 percent against the Sonics and looked timid against his old team.

I'm not sure if Pop has the testicular fortitude to make this switch, but it makes sense. A lot of sense, actually.

Another timvp hit?

Perhaps.

:smokin

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

well, I was thinking about that earlier, If Grob could hang with Lewis on D, he will be a HUGE factor for the spurs in round 2.

[stéphane]

Do you think he can play big minutes?
He's not a real good defender but it seems he works hard and fight when he's on the court.. resulting often with foul trouble... do you think he can go past that Timvp?

[timvp]

I thought he did a good job against Carmelo. Lewis is a similar player but would dominate a matchup versus Barry. The main thing with Lewis is you have to keep him off the block and get a hand up in his face on his threes. Robinson can do that, Barry can't.

I wouldn't play Robinson big minutes. Something like 15 minutes per game with the main job of keeping Lewis from going off at the beginning of each half.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ive been saying start robinson since we got him

[milkyway21]

okay. how about Radmanovic, who's going to guard him?
he had 28 pts in a game in the season and i think he could be a big threat to the Spurs from the 3pt area.

Brown updates, anyone?

[timvp]

Horry can guard Radman. If at three, you can even get away with Barry on him as long as he doesn't give him open looks.

[Kori Ellis]

Brown updates, anyone?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA050505.8C.BKNspurs.brown.2429d427d.html

Devin Brown hasn't given up hope he'll be able to contribute in the playoffs for the Spurs. He just doesn't know when.

Brown has appeared in one game since he went on the injured list more than a month ago with a herniated disk in his lower back. He played six minutes in the Spurs' blowout victory in Game 2 but otherwise has spent his time on the practice court trying to regain the strength in his right leg.

"It's showing the coaches, mainly (Gregg Popovich), that I'm able to do the things that I used to do as far as being explosive and things like that," Brown said. "I'm still a little hesitant on some of the moves to the basket. It will get there. It's just taking some time."

Brown said he's confident he'll be back — at some point.

"Two weeks ago, I said two weeks, and that jumped on me," he said. "Every day I'm making improvements and able to do more and more and more. It could be tomorrow. It could be next week. But it's not panic time yet."

[whottt]

I like the idea and reasoning behind the idea of starting the Big Dogg but I don't think it'll happen...it does make sense though...

And one thing about the Bigg Dogg...yeah he's got to defend whoever he guards...but whoever he guards has to defend him as well...he won't pick up a lot of fouls but he's a load for these lean SF's to handle.

And the Bigg Dog has bee doubled with regularity in the playoffs before. He's that dominant of a scorer.

I like the idea but I just don't think Robinson has been with the team long enough for it to happen.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Plus the same logic used to start barry (Getting into the flow of the offense) would work well for big dog as well.

[whottt]

I just hope we don't stop using Barry in the 4th...he's played well and he keeps our offense going when it starts to bogs down. Pop let him handle the ball and run some penetration plays in the 4th and we built the biggest lead of the entire game with him doing...just like we did in our last game.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i must have missed that

somehow i always just manage to focus on him missing threes

then i see the boxscore and see how he's like 3rd in assists

[whottt]

It's not that he always gets assists, it's just that our offense runs more smoothly when he gets to touch the ball...I mean he's made his share of TO's in this series but if you ask me he's still been the best passer on the team in terms of team ball and it seems like we never lose the lead when he's on the court. He's got very good court awareness...I think it's actually better than Parker's and even Manu's...Parker and Manu have been scoring like mofos in this series...and the last two games I think Denver was starting to do a better job of messing up their penetrations.

[whottt]

I thought of one other reason that Bigg Dogg probably won't start...

Listening to the Pop show the other day Pop said something that could be considered kind of revealing...

When asked about how he feels about Robinson's impact on the team this season...he said he's been good, but he does't expect him to contribute much this year.

It's revealing for 2 reasons.

#1.Pop said he doesn't expect him to contribute much.

#2.It sounds like Pop wants to try and bring Big Dogg back next season...he could have just said it that way for lack of a better term...but it does sound like he wants him back if possible...and why wouldn't he with the attitude and ability the guy has shown?

I think it's possible Robinson could be signed for the MLE, I think there is a chance the Spurs might consider doing that because he doesn't have to adjust to the NBA like Scola will have to do, we actually have a glut of bigs. And they don't have to bring Scola over next season, he's still got one year left on his Euro contract...and maybe Robinson could be signed for less anyway...but...



That means if Pop plays him against Seattle and Bigg Dog goes off for 10-15 PPG, shows he is still the Big Dog, but with an improved attitude...there is no chance of that happening. And Pop doesn't really have to start him to be able to put him on Rashard...

[Gerryatrics]

Eh, go for it. I think Lewis would torch Robinson, but you never know. I'd actually think about putting Bowen on Lewis and having Barry or Ginobili do their best with Allen. Lewis likes getting pestered defensively even less then Allen. Ray will get his points, no matter how many shots it takes, but if Rashard starts putting up big points it could spell trouble for the Spurs.

I'm all for benching Barry at this point though. It's clear the fans have already chosen their goat, and even though Robinson hasn't really done anything Barry hasn't since he's gotten here, he's the new hero. The Ginobili/Barry switch was brilliant during Game 2, but since then Barry still hasn't been getting many touches even though he's starting. And since Pop has started subbing Manu in as little as four minutes into the start of the halves, I wonder if the move is still as effective or makes a real difference. But if you're going to continue bringing Manu off the bench as a spark, well, Barry isn't getting the touches and isn't going to get the touches, so you might as well play Robinson and see what he can do out there. At least you know he wont pass up all the shots Brent does.

[mattyc]

Horry can deal with Radman.

Lewis is playing like a girl anyway, so I wouldn't mind putting a confident Big Dog on him. Swish.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Another timvp hit?


You mean like saying the Nazr-Rose trade was a bad one? :lol

[Jimcs50]

Manu can guard Lewis and Bruce can guard Allen.

If you start Manu, then Ray Allen has to play defense the whole time, something that he did not have to do against Sacramento. Manu will run Ray through so many screens that he will be totally tired out by the 4th Q, his offense will be ineffective.

Barry can be first off the bench when eithet Allen or Lewis take their first break.

Big Dog can not stay with Lewis. Carmello blew by him to fast last night it was like he was not even guarded at all. Allen will run Bruce around so much that he will not be able to help at all on Lewis.

Better to match strengh against strength....start Manu and Bowen.

[SPARKY]

Allen is that team. You want BB on Allen. You need him on Allen.

As for GRobinson, I'll admit that prior to the 1st round I would've thought had I been asked that Anthony would light him up. But GRobinson has proven to be much more adept at fitting into the Spurs' D and also playing man to man defense than I would've expected.

This is not to say that I would expect GRobinson to shut down Lewis but it does improve the Spurs' overall defensive scheme, especially with Bowen free to get into Allen's head all night long. Footspeed would be somewhat of a concern, since Seattle has the horses to get out and run, which would limit the effectiveness of GRob defensively.

What concerns me slightly is the impact that such a lineup would have for the Spurs on the offensive end to start the game. Tony would have to come out aggressive. The Spurs would need to run a play or two to try to get GRobinson off, since you don't have the threat to drive from the perimeter that Manu or Barry gives you. Still, with TD, TP & GRob you'd have three scorers out on the floor.

[Jimcs50]

If you start GRob, you would only have 1 player who can penetrate and run the defense through screens in the starting lineup. Big Dog is a post up player, Bowen is a spot up shooter, Nazr is a post up player, and then you have TD and TP.

Allen would be off the hook defensively because all he would have to do is hang around Bowen on the arc and he would essentially have used no energy whatsoever on that end.

Manu needs to start.

[SPARKY]

If you start GRob, you would only have 1 player who can penetrate and run the defense through screens in the starting lineup. Big Dog is a post up player, Bowen is a spot up shooter, Nazr is a post up player, and then you have TD and TP.



GRobinson also has a jumpshot. What you would want is a few screen rolls with TP and GRob at one of the elbows.

[Jimcs50]

GRobinson also has a jumpshot. What you would want is a few screen rolls with TP and GRob at one of the elbows.


He has a jumpshot, but he is not a creator who would tire out Ray Allen....am I right?

[Spurminator]

Another timvp hit?

I demand at least partial credit on this one if it happens.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247220#post247220

[SPARKY]

He has a jumpshot, but he is not a creator who would tire out Ray Allen....am I right?

That's BB's job on the defensive end. Guarding Lewis and ensuring Bowen is on Allen matters much more than making Allen work to his max defensively.

[Jimcs50]

I demand at least partial credit on this one if it happens.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247220#post247220


Spurm, simmer down....it is only a pipe dream...Pop would have to be on the crack pipe to even consider the move.

[Jimcs50]

That's BB's job on the defensive end. Guarding Lewis and ensuring Bowen is on Allen matters much more than making Allen work to his max defensively.


I am talking about Allen on DEFENSE...

Have to make Allen work on defense...look what ahppens when he does not have to play defense ...he torched Sacto.

[Jimcs50]

Bowen still guards Allen.

Manu on Rashard.

[SPARKY]

I am talking about Allen on DEFENSE...


No shit. If you want Allen to be worn out physically and limited on offense then you want Bowen on him.



Have to make Allen work on defense...look what ahppens when he does not have to play defense ...he torched Sacto.

That's what happens when you don't have an all-NBA 1st Team Defense member to shut his ass down.

And again, if you have Manu or Barry on the court then you are forced to put them on Allen and Bowen on Lewis. So you take your best perimeter defender, the best perimeter defender in the NBA and put him on your opponent's 2nd option.

Redneck dumb.

[TwoHandJam]

I highly doubt Pop will start Glenn on Rashard but he will definitely try him in spot minutes against him and see how it goes. If he does really well, it's not out of the question that he moves Barry to the bench but GRob would have to do a really good job.

Personally, I think GRob might slow Lewis down a bit but Lewis is fast enough to blow by him on most occasions imo. As has been said before, stopping Allen is key so you have to put Bowen on him. You stop Allen and you stop the Sonics.

Lewis and Radmanovic are going to be our toughest covers other than Allen this series, no doubt. It's really too bad LJIII never had a chance this season.

[Jimcs50]

No shit. If you want Allen to be worn out physically and limited on offense then you want Bowen on him.



That's what happens when you don't have an all-NBA 1st Team Defense member to shut his ass down.

And again, if you have Manu or Barry on the court then you are forced to put them on Allen and Bowen on Lewis. So you take your best perimeter defender, the best perimeter defender in the NBA and put him on your opponent's 2nd option.

Redneck dumb.



Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth???


Bowen still guards Allen.

Manu on Rashard. :rolleyes

[CosmicCowboy]

I think CIA Pop has held Devin Brown out as his secret weapon for Seattle...it didn't look like there was anything wrong with his lift in that three minutes he played in that second game...he practically snatched a defensive rebound off the top of the backboard...

[Jimcs50]

I think CIA Pop has held Devin Brown out as his secret weapon for Seattle...it didn't look like there was anything wrong with his lift in that three minutes he played in that second game...he practically snatched a defensive rebound off the top of the backboard...

good point, Devin can help on Ray when Bowen is on bench.

[SPARKY]

Manu Ginobili cannot guard Lewis. Fuck that. I'd much rather see Lewis trying to shoot over a bigger defender than being able to take his man into the post.

[ChumpDumper]

How many minutes do you realistically think Dog can play against Seattle? If it's 39 per game, starting him as a Shard matchup may have some validity. Otherwise I just don't see it, especially seeing how foul prone he is. Keep him for later, let him play in the third and fourth without worrying about fouling out at the 10 minute mark in the fourth.

[spurster]

It will be a matchup war. Who will match up with Rashard? Who will match up on Manu?

[Kori Ellis]

Glenn hates Ray Allen. I don't know if he should start, but he'll definitely see some revenge minutes in this series.

[T Park]

I think if you start the big dog, you make sure Lewis is guarding him on the offensive end, and you go at it him in the post, upfake, get him off his feet, get him into foul trouble, get Radmonovic in there, and then bring in Robert Horry.


It wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility to see Horry Mohammed Duncan out there as the front line at times.

[T Park]

Kori, now that you say that.

Robinson faces an old coach that he hates, now he faces an old teammate that he hates.

If the Spurs win this round, whats next, an old trainer?

[picnroll]

Put Bowen, Robinson, Nazr, Duncan and Parker on the floor and Seattle will full court press against the Spurs single ball handler. I'll bet all the vBucks remainig that Manu will be on Lewis with double teaming if he tries to post up.

[2centsworth]

According to the guys at TNT Ray has pissed off a lot of people.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

If you start GRob, you would only have 1 player who can penetrate and run the defense through screens in the starting lineup. Big Dog is a post up player, Bowen is a spot up shooter, Nazr is a post up player, and then you have TD and TP.

Allen would be off the hook defensively because all he would have to do is hang around Bowen on the arc and he would essentially have used no energy whatsoever on that end.

Manu needs to start.

For what it's worth, that's pretty much what Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith said last night on TNT after the game. We have to make Allen work his ass of on defense. Start Manu and Bowen.

[mattyc]

Glenn hates Ray Allen. I don't know if he should start, but he'll definitely see some revenge minutes in this series.
Damn, I'd almost forgot about that! Big Dog will be out to crack some skulls and will probably find himself on a shooting streak.

[tlongII]

As much as it pains me to say this...Jim is right. The Spurs should put Manu on Lewis and Bowen on Allen.

[picnroll]

Stojakovic played Lewis well. If Peja can handle Rashard Manu shouldn't be overwhelmed.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's not that he always gets assists, it's just that our offense runs more smoothly when he gets to touch the ball...I mean he's made his share of TO's in this series but if you ask me he's still been the best passer on the team in terms of team ball and it seems like we never lose the lead when he's on the court. He's got very good court awareness...I think it's actually better than Parker's and even Manu's...Parker and Manu have been scoring like mofos in this series...and the last two games I think Denver was starting to do a better job of messing up their penetrations.


sorry whottt, i wanted to talk more but the reason i was up so late was that i was studyin for a damned test

but i kind of agree and kind of disagree....Sometimes when barry is out there he just gives a quick touch pass that leads to 3 or 4 other passes without him touching the ball again
that does happen alot too

and yeah very true, bigdogg doesnt have to start to guard rashard...
just like manu doesnt have to start to ruin an entire team :lol

[timvp]

Manu isn't going to start. Book it.

Pop sees how much sense it makes bringing Manu off the bench. At worst, he'll start Barry and just pray he can handle Lewis.

[IcemanCometh]

jesus h christ no

worst fucking idea you have ever had.

fat dog is beyond useless

[timvp]

You mean like saying the Nazr-Rose trade was a bad one? :lol

I said at the time of the trade that I thought it was a good trade but I wanted to see if Nazr could figure out the Spurs system or whether he'd be another Knick bust. You, on the other hand, have gone SpursGal on Nazr and have been swinging from his nvts since the trade went down. He does no wrong in your eyes ... as evident by your daily threads about him.

The funny thing is someone won a bet with you regarding him and you've been pretty mum on that subject each time I bring it up.

Interesting.

:smokin

[Jimcs50]

Manu Ginobili cannot guard Lewis. Fuck that. I'd much rather see Lewis trying to shoot over a bigger defender than being able to take his man into the post.


Manu can guard Lewis, no doubt about it.

BTW, have you see who is behing Manu in the paint if Lewis tries to post him up?

You have TD and Nazr in there too you know.

Manu is the 2nd best defender on the perimeter, he needs to be on their 2nd best offensive threat.

[SPARKY]

It shouldn't be too hard for Lewis to post up Manu and go up with it before a big can close.

[Horry For 3!]

Rashard Lewis didn't play too well last series but he did decent in Game 5. Hopefully Lewis will continue to struggle with his shot. That would help us out a lot.

[Jimcs50]

It shouldn't be too hard for Lewis to post up Manu and go up with it before a big can close.


It takes time to post up, we can hadle that play no problem. But we can not leave the 3 point shooters to double team, we have to use our weakside help, Nazr or Horry.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I say let Big Dog come in and play more minutes. Don't start him necessarily. Let Pop do an assessment of Barry and then pull the plug if necessary each game.

Let Robinson be Manu II coming of the bench.

[Jimcs50]

We have to start Manu...no ifs, ands or buts about it.

[CosmicCowboy]

We have to start Manu...no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Barkley was talking about that after the game last night...he thought the Spurs would go back to starting Manu for the matchups...

[MannyIsGod]

I just like Manu off the bench. It creates havoc when he comes in. There is no way in hell Barry can handle Rashard. I would not be against starting GRob, but I would also not be against starting Horry.

Horry is a capable 3, he has a shot to strecth the D, and he's also a great help defender.

There are options, and I'm not worried.

[vanvannen]

I think Manu should start. He can definetely guard RL, and he will make Allen sweat on D. Hopefully, Devin will be ready and we can bring his spark off the bench.
The key is to control Allen and keep Manu on Rashard's 3's. If he tries to post, Tim and Nazr/Rasho will handle it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

horry is a valid option, but no way barry starts and we come out on top

you all saw what happened last night, they were purposefully giving the ball to whoever barry was guarding

I agree with Manny, the havoc Manu causes when he comes off the bench is fuckin awesome....he just totally shifts the balance of power to our favor

[SPARKY]

It takes time to post up, we can hadle that play no problem. But we can not leave the 3 point shooters to double team, we have to use our weakside help, Nazr or Horry.

Uh it's not hard for Lewis to move into the post as TD is distracted up top.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm worried more about Luke The Duke Ridnour and Nick the Rick Collison over rashard

Glenn Robinson has been due for more minutes, i want him to start like no other but i doubt it happens

I think we should just hope he gets some good solid late 1st quarter minutes, to get into a groove. If he finds one, pop stays with him for the start of the 2nd. Then maybe some late 3rd early 4th minutes. But if hes missing all his shots then just go with Usher or Barry.

[Jimcs50]

Uh it's not hard for Lewis to move into the post as TD is distracted up top.

The Spurs are not bothered by any posting up players not name Shaq, Marbury or Dream.

[tlongII]

Manu isn't going to start. Book it.

Pop sees how much sense it makes bringing Manu off the bench. At worst, he'll start Barry and just pray he can handle Lewis.


That would be very dumb. If Pop is half the coach I think he is, he will start Manu. The NBA is about matchups and Manu is a much better matchup than Barry when playing the Sonics.

[Manu20]

Barry should not start against Seattle. Manu is playing great off the bench so come on Pop Robinson should start. At least Robinson has the size to play agains Lewis.

That being said I think Pop is just going to start Manu.

[wildbill2u]

It isn't only about size in a defensive matchup. Remember how so many people were complaining about Big Dog when he was acquired--"no defense and will not fit into Spur's defensive schemes"--

Now I've been pleasantly surprised by how Robinson has at least tried to play some
D--but I don't think he's a great defender to put on a major shooter. But I think he'll get some more minutes. Bowen spent a lot of time on the bench the other night while Big Dog was getting some playing time and that surprised me.

[waly.mg]

Last season Devin Brown played beter than Hedo, and Pop don´t move him to starter

In 3 years Pop only made 3 moves: S-Jax over Smith, Hedo for Manu and Barry for Manu

In the 5th game in 2 4th quarter shots Big Dog made more than Hedo in the 2004 and Barry this year

[Extra Stout]

I think Manu should start.

But if GRob can at least box out a guy like Reggie Evans or Jerome James who isn't a major scoring threat, then why not play him for a while with Duncan, Horry, Parker, and Manu? Lewis won't have a very pleasant time trying to shoot over Horry. Neither would Radmanovic.

That I think would be a good lineup while Allen is on the bench.

[Mark in Austin]

I could see a big lineup of

Nazr
Duncan
Horry
Bowen
Parker

to start. If Horry is having a hard time chasing Lewis around, I could see them going to Robinson, or even Devin later in the series.

Bowen and Manu will be guarding Allen.

Massenburg and Rasho off the bench will be a huge help to counteract Evans, Fortson, James, etc.

I agree that this is where the Spurs miss what LJIII could have brought to the table. (He would be a big help guarding McGrady too, if the Rockets beat the Suns.)