Is it fair to assume the following about Spur Nation?

[Findog]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

[ElNono]

I thought Dallas beat us fair and square that season. Maybe if Tim didn't have to battle with PF would have helped a bit, but I thought the best team over a 7 game series won.
The Finals was Dirk choking in the big stage as expected.

[DesignatedT]

Duncan was fantastic that series. He couldn't have done much more. There were definitely some questionable calls against the spurs... mainly down the stretch in some games that were decided by 4 pts or less.

I thought both teams were pretty evenly matched overall though.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

in the 2006 finals, the mavs made 126 FTs and heat made 121. not to mention the mavs were fouling Shaq who made just 14 out of 48.

[kaji157]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

I think Wade was given a better treatment in some games. Dirk was reffed the same way all series.

[silverblk mystix]

I firmly believe there was some shady NBA dealings going on in BOTH the Mavs/Spurs series----but ALSO the Heat/Mavs finals....

to answer the OP....Yes...I firmly believe that the Mavs got a taste of their own meds---and even though it is an ugly thought---I do believe the NBA was not innocent of any wrongdoing.

[Harry Callahan]

SA had been through a very tough series with Sac Kings and had zero recovery time going into the Dallas series (a day to get home from the West Coast and start the series). Parker and Gino were beat up in the 1st round series and Duncan had the Plantar Facitis.

Dallas got the second game when SA had nothing in the tank. Games three and four did give the Mavies some extra help via some Phantom calls.

SA still should have won that series. I doubt they would have let Miami off the hook.

[J_Paco]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

Yeah, there could be that feeling amongst us Spur fans. But, it's not to the degree that ya'll (still) cry about D-Wade's treatment in the '06 Finals. The Mavericks were just one possession better than the Spurs, and if Manu doesn't foul Dirk at the end of game 7, then we conceivably go on to a repeat. Oh well, we won another title a year later and the Mavericks once again choked in the playoffs.

[Blackjack]

Did the point of emphasis play a huge role in the Spurs-Mavs series and go a long way in deciding the outcome? I definitely think it was significant.

And did the same thing that benefited the Mavs against the Spurs cost them against the Heat? Yeah, I think it did; Wade has been one of the biggest beneficiaries since the point of emphasis.

But, IMO, regardless of the injuries to the Big 3 and the fouls, if the Spurs don't get screwed with the schedule to start the series ... they don't drop Game 2. And if they don't drop Game 2, the Mavs probably drop Game 3 or 4 on their court because they don't gain the confidence that had always eluded them against their big brother.

The Mavs were the third best team in the West that year if Amar'e doesn't go down IMO. That's not me being bitter or trying to slight Dallas, the Mavs just hadn't cleared the mental hurdle of either team; they were competitive with both but lacked the belief and/or success against both to surpass them.

The Mavs were a very good team that had a hell of a star and they weren't gifted a Finals appearance. But they were extremely fortunate with the circumstances surrounding them and their stiffest competition; which makes it all the more depressing for Mavs fans that they lost to a team that was no better than the fourth or fifth best team in the league that year.

Sorry, brah, but that's real talk, son. (IMHO) :toast

[spursfan09]

2006! get over it! I have. ( It helps to ease the pain though if you win the trophy the year after)

[poop]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

correct.





faggot.

[poop]

the league had an Agenda that year , and it was to AVOID at all costs the Inevitable Spurs-Pistons rematch

[xellos88330]

Game 3 of that series was pretty irritating for me to watch. 50 free throws for a jump shooting team? Really?!?!

[DesignatedT]

the league had an Agenda that year , and it was to AVOID at all costs the Inevitable Spurs-Pistons rematch

this is exactly what it was.. and the way they officiated games ultimately hurt both those teams.

[admiralsnackbar]

I thought it was in the top 5 series I've watched -- very well-matched teams playing very well.

I'll always wonder what the outcome would have been if Finley hadn't been called for the technical (which the NBA officially rescinded after the series was over) which led to an OT Spurs loss. I'll also always feel the foul called on Manu that ended the series was a bit ticky-tacky. But I'm ultimately fine with the loss. It was great basketball.

As for how the Mavs fared afterwards... I think it had more to do with having prepared too much to defeat the Spurs, and too little to become champions. The Nowitzki Mavs have a history of playing complacent ball when they think they are the superior team, and being too mentally weak to fight back when they are proven wrong.

[Mark in Austin]

Spurs always have to play the hand they'e dealt. Poor scheduling? Get over it and play. Biased refs? Get over it and play 5 on 8. No excuses.

Dallas played a hell of a series. The Spurs did their best to counterpunch and came damn close - to a historic epic comeback. Manu's foul on Dirk was the mistake that tipped the series to the Mavs - no way to deny it.

Mavs made it to the finals and couldn't close. It happens.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree..Manu's foul will be the moment that will be remembered..I bet Manu still thinks about it all the time, probably difficult for a guy that competes like he does..

[slayermin]

I am over 2006. Obviously I would have loved the Spurs to repeat but watching the Mavs get within, what was it, 6 minutes of the title and fold? That was almost as sweet as watching the Pistons rip the Lakers a new one in '04. And don't get me started on the '07 series with the Warriors. I have footage of Stephen Jackson manhandling Dirk in '03 as a Spur. Nellie got that gameplan from Pop. Mavs fan is incredibly lucky that Jackson didn't resign in San Antonio. Of all the reasons the Spurs have never repeated, that has to be one of the top ones.

[carina_gino20]

I agree..Manu's foul will be the moment that will be remembered..I bet Manu still thinks about it all the time, probably difficult for a guy that competes like he does..

Agree. No matter how well he played to get us back into that game. That's always the lasting image. I don't think Manu still thinks about it all the time. Too many years have passed. But I'm sure if he watches that game that he'll beat himself up for it again.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs always have to play the hand they'e dealt. Poor scheduling? Get over it and play. Biased refs? Get over it and play 5 on 8. No excuses.

Dallas played a hell of a series. The Spurs did their best to counterpunch and came damn close - to a historic epic comeback. Manu's foul on Dirk was the mistake that tipped the series to the Mavs - no way to deny it.

Mavs made it to the finals and couldn't close. It happens.

There it is right there. That foul, one of the all-time stupidest fouls I've ever seen, in the waning moments of Game 7, with the Spurs up by three, was THE play that turned the game and, in effect, lost the series for the Spurs. Without it, we're not even having this debate.

I agree with others who proclaimed that after the Mavs got by the Spurs that series, it eliminated the mental road block for them. They've had success against the Spurs ever since.

I hope that play keeps Manu awake at night - because I still agonize over it to this day.

Why Manu? Why? :bang

[Blackjack]

I'm over that series and have been for a while.

But if someone's going to ask for my perspective, opinion or belief on what happened and why it happened, I'm going to tell you MHO.

Manu's foul is seemingly the bane of most Spurs' fans existence, a lot of which has to do with the imagery, but it's ridiculously overblown IMO. The guy had just hit the go-ahead 3 after coming back from a 20-point deficit and the foul only tied the game after Dirk hit the free throw. Dirk not getting called for the foul on Duncan's putback attempt (that he himself copped to) seems lost on most; as does the condition Tim was in to end regulation and his worsened state during overtime due to cramping (talk about imagery, I still see Tim beating the hell out of his legs after blowing two gimmes and then being denied by Diop at the rim).

Whether it was the schedule, point of emphasis, condition of the Big 3, the ridiculous seeding that had number 1 and 2 meet in the second round or the benching of their bigs, there were plenty of factors that had the Spurs behind the 8-ball and gave the Mavs the opportunity to upset them; it was an and upset, after all.

[rayray2k8]

......
How the fuck did the Mavs blow the lead of being up by 2 games in the finals? I still don't get that. :lol

[ffadicted]

in the 2006 finals, the mavs made 126 FTs and heat made 121. not to mention the mavs were fouling Shaq who made just 14 out of 48.

Game, Set and Match

[TDMVPDPOY]

clearly questionable calls on their home court down the stretch in games...they got bailed out by the refs

and what goes around comes around

[Xevious]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?
I don't think that. I just think Dallas (Dirk specifically) has SA's number, for whatever reason. Dallas took the 2006 championship from SA (Spurs would've beat that Heat team, no doubt). Golden State gave it back to them in 2007. :toast

[NFGIII]

Not neccessary. Frankly the Mavs deserved to win that series. Though there were many a debatable call - from both sides - the Mavs prevalled and won, In the final analysis it was Manu that fouled Dirk. Without that foul it's only a two point shot and the Spurs simply run out the clock to win. Yes, the Mavs can foul but I think it wouldn't make them the winners. They needed OT and they got it and the rest is is history.

It is what it is. If Manu doesn't foul then the Mave lose - pure and simple. But he did and the Mavs won.

Enough said.

Time to move on.

Let it go.

[easy7]

Dallas won fair and square in 2006. Dallas choked after winning the first 2 games, that was their best opportunity to get a :lobt: But until now and until you get someone who is better than Nowinski and provides help, your championship case will be empty. Dallas showed their colors in 2007 when they faced the Warriors. Mavs fans can't say they would have beat the Spurs that year, for we will never know. You need to take care of the light stuff before talking shit.

[MaNu4Tres]

Mavs were handed Games 3 and 4 in the last quarter of each of those games.
That was the series. IMHO

If you don't believe me, figure out a way to watch those two games again and come talk to me.

Those two games were so bad Pop and the Spurs brass notified the league and expressed their opinions on the horrible officiating in a very infuriated manner. ( That has been the only time Pop and R.C have done such in the duration of the Duncan era.) * That's how bad it was*

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Mavs were handed Games 3 and 4 in the last quarter of each of those games.
That was the series. IMHO

If you don't believe me, figure out a way to watch those two games again and come talk to me.

Those two games were so bad Pop and the Spurs brass notified the league and expressed their opinions on the horrible officiating in a very infuriated manner. ( That has been the only time Pop and R.C have done such in the duration of the Duncan era.) * That's how bad it was*

True.

Game 3's 4th quarter was the single worst officiating job I've seen - worse than in the Mia vs Dal series. Dallas scored 20 of their last 26 points from the free throw line, Dirk had 27 points on 9 shots shooting at 33.3%, and Dallas won by a point while having 16(!) less field goal attempts. Words escape me.

[Obstructed_View]

I think Pop was stupid for benching the centers on a 63 win team. Smallball was the reason the Mavs won the series, but it's not Dallas' fault that the Spurs were stupid, so they absolutely deserved to win that series. It's disappointing because the players figured out how to play despite the small lineups, they just didn't figure it out in time to save the season. Little things like Timmy fouling out after Dirk stepped on his foot or Manu's foul wouldn't really have mattered if the Spurs had had either of their seven footers anchoring their defense for even a few minutes in the later games of that series. Nobody in the Spurs organization has a leg to stand on crying about the calls when they put two healthy starting centers at the end of the bench simply because one of them hit a three pointer in a blowout.

All that said, the Heat were the better team than Dallas, and cries of poor officiating by Mavfan are just as ridiculous as they were by Spurfan in the semis. The refs gave Dirk a chance to put the thing away at the line. They can't make the fucking free throws for him too.

[Findog]

in the 2006 finals, the mavs made 126 FTs and heat made 121. not to mention the mavs were fouling Shaq who made just 14 out of 48.

Game, Set and Match

http://www.johnfatica.com/o_rly.jpg

2006 Western Semis, Mavs-Spurs:

Game 1 at San Antonio: Spurs 30 FTAs, Mavs 28. Duncan 12, Dirk 6.
Game 2 at San Antonio: Spurs 37, Mavs 43. Duncan 14, Dirk 7.
Game 3 at Dallas: Spurs 32, Mavs 50. Duncan 8, Dirk 24.
Game 4 at Dallas: Spurs 32, Mavs 32. Duncan 8, Dirk 15.
Game 5 at San Antonio: Spurs 31, Mavs 19. Duncan 15, Dirk 4.
Game 6 at Dallas: Spurs 34, Mavs 20. Duncan 10, Dirk 8.
Game 7 at San Antonio: Spurs 39, Mavs 31. Duncan 23, Dirk 16.

Spurs 33.57 FTAs per game, Duncan 12.85 FTAs per game (6.15 above season average)
Mavs 31.85 FTAs per game, Dirk 11.42 FTAs per game (4.02 above season average)

Mavs-Heat 2006 Finals:

Game 1 at Dallas: Mavs 26 FTAs, Heat 19. Wade 10, Dirk 6.
Game 2 at Dallas: Mavs 28, Heat 32. Wade 14, Dirk 11.
Game 3 at Miami: Mavs 26, Heat 34. Wade 18, Dirk 12.
Game 4 at Miami: Mavs 27, Heat 36. Wade 9, Dirk 13.
Game 5 at Miami: Mavs 25, Heat 49. Wade 25, Dirk 5.
Game 6 at Dallas: Mavs 23, Heat 37. Wade 21, Dirk 8.

Heat-Mavs series:

Heat 34.50 FTAs per game, Wade 16.16 FTAs per game (5.46 above season average)
Mavs 25.83 FTAs per game, Dirk 9.16 FTAs per game (1.76 above season average)

Ironically, Duncan enjoyed a higher FT boost than Wade did over regular season averages. Now, there's a lot of factors that go into that, considering that the Spurs don't generally run their offense through Duncan in the regular season (he rarely goes for 30+ in a regular season game), whereas in the playoffs he becomes the focal point of the Spurs offense. Duncan shot over 50% of his points in the paint, whereas Wade shot 35% of his points in the paint.

I have to give credit to the Heat for beating us in 2006. It does a franchise no good to adopt an excuses-making, sore loser mentality. There are basketball reasons above and beyond the refs that explains why that series turned out the way it did.

One thing is clear though: Spurs fans are totally full of shit to complain that the refs jobbed them in 2006, just as the Mavs fans are to say the same about the Finals. And it's totally false that the Mavs "got a taste of their own medicine" in the Finals when they weren't the beneficiary of lopsided officiating in the Spurs-Mavs series.

[Spurminator]

This particular Spurs fan thinks both series were travesties of NBA officiating, but neither was decided solely by the officiating.

[Ghazi]

Oh hi Findog

I don't think Mavs fans are full of shit to say the refs jobbed us in 2006. There was clear, obvious one sided officiating in that series. Mavs could've made a few more plays, a few more shots, granted... but never the less, the Heat were beneficiaries of one of the worst officiated series of all time. Hell, of the slew of bad calls, if you just take away the call that ended Game 5 the Mavs probably win the series.

On top of the bad calls Stack's suspension was very dubious as well.

A sad way for a magnificent season for the Mavs to end.

However, I agree that Spurs fans are full of shit when they complain about the officiating in the Mavs/Spurs series :).

But the franchise does not have a sore loser mentality, our boys have moved on and the roster is much different, along with the coach. But Dirk/Cuban/and the rest of the gang know that we was robbed in 2006.

[in2deep]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

wrong.

Mavs won a legit game and Mavs choked vs. Heat. That is the concesus.

[Ghazi]

Oh hi Findog

I don't think Mavs fans are full of shit to say the refs jobbed us in 2006. There was clear, obvious one sided officiating in that series. Mavs could've made a few more plays, a few more shots, granted... but never the less, the Heat were beneficiaries of one of the worst officiated series of all time. Hell, of the slew of bad calls, if you just take away the call that ended Game 5 the Mavs probably win the series.

On top of the bad calls Stack's suspension was very dubious as well.

A sad way for a magnificent season for the Mavs to end.

It is not even an opinion that the Mavs were victims of extremely poor officiating in the Finals, it is an indisputable fact.

However, I agree that Spurs fans are full of shit when they complain about the officiating in the Mavs/Spurs series :).

But the franchise does not have a sore loser mentality, our boys have moved on and the roster is much different, along with the coach. But Dirk/Cuban/and the rest of the gang know that we was robbed in 2006.

[Dex]

Dallas won the 2006 series. I remember there being a number of questionable calls and Dallas parading to the free throw line an awful lot for a jump shooting team, but both teams played incredible that entire series, and it was unfortunate that only one of them could end up winning it.

That being said, what happened in the 2006 Finals was sweet, sweet poetic justice. Just like in 2004 when the Pistons bitchslapped the Fab Four Lakers.

[thispego]

Spur fan generally believes that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line, and what happened in the 2006 NBA Finals with Wade and the Heat was simply Dallas getting a taste of its own medicine.

Correct?

yes. 100% factual.

[urunobili]

Manu's fault :rolleyes

So the Bogus Foul on Duncan doesn't count either on game 3? :rolleyes

[Findog]

yes. 100% factual.

Do they not teach teh maths in San Antonio public schools?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Do they not teach teh maths in San Antonio public schools?

Apparently they teach it as well as they teach "teh" grammar in dallas public schools.

[Findog]

Apparently they teach it as well as they teach "teh" grammar in dallas public schools.

Hey Aggie, it was intentional:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teh

[nkdlunch]

Biggest Chokers in Sports History Forum

[z0sa]

One thing is clear though: Spurs fans are totally full of shit to complain that the refs jobbed them in 2006, just as the Mavs fans are to say the same about the Finals. And it's totally false that the Mavs "got a taste of their own medicine" in the Finals when they weren't the beneficiary of lopsided officiating in the Spurs-Mavs series.

Wrong on both counts, Tim Duncan getting clearly hacked at the end of Game 7 without a call is more proof than I'll ever need for the former

[Findog]

Wrong on both counts, Tim Duncan getting clearly hacked at the end of Game 7 without a call is more proof than I'll ever need for the former

Then I get to complain about the foul on Dirk at the end of Game 5 that sent Wade to the line for two free throws. Mavs still had HCA and two chances to beat the Heat at home. Spurs still had a chance to beat the Mavs in OT.

[z0sa]

Then I get to complain about the foul on Dirk at the end of Game 5 that sent Wade to the line for two free throws. Mavs still had HCA and two chances to beat the Heat at home. Spurs still had a chance to beat the Mavs in OT.

Maybe you can even learn to laugh about it, like your players.

Fact is, Mavs got screwed in styles only Karma could manufacture.

[Muser]

God damn Manu :bang

[Findog]

Maybe you can even learn to laugh about it, like your players.

Fact is, Mavs got screwed in styles only Karma could manufacture.

Typical excuses-making basketball fan.

[pad300]

http://www.johnfatica.com/o_rly.jpg

2006 Western Semis, Mavs-Spurs:

Game 1 at San Antonio: Spurs 30 FTAs, Mavs 28. Duncan 12, Dirk 6.
Game 2 at San Antonio: Spurs 37, Mavs 43. Duncan 14, Dirk 7.
Game 3 at Dallas: Spurs 32, Mavs 50. Duncan 8, Dirk 24.
Game 4 at Dallas: Spurs 32, Mavs 32. Duncan 8, Dirk 15.
Game 5 at San Antonio: Spurs 31, Mavs 19. Duncan 15, Dirk 4.
Game 6 at Dallas: Spurs 34, Mavs 20. Duncan 10, Dirk 8.
Game 7 at San Antonio: Spurs 39, Mavs 31. Duncan 23, Dirk 16.

Spurs 33.57 FTAs per game, Duncan 12.85 FTAs per game (6.15 above season average)
Mavs 31.85 FTAs per game, Dirk 11.42 FTAs per game (4.02 above season average)

Mavs-Heat 2006 Finals:

Game 1 at Dallas: Mavs 26 FTAs, Heat 19. Wade 10, Dirk 6.
Game 2 at Dallas: Mavs 28, Heat 32. Wade 14, Dirk 11.
Game 3 at Miami: Mavs 26, Heat 34. Wade 18, Dirk 12.
Game 4 at Miami: Mavs 27, Heat 36. Wade 9, Dirk 13.
Game 5 at Miami: Mavs 25, Heat 49. Wade 25, Dirk 5.
Game 6 at Dallas: Mavs 23, Heat 37. Wade 21, Dirk 8.

Heat-Mavs series:

Heat 34.50 FTAs per game, Wade 16.16 FTAs per game (5.46 above season average)
Mavs 25.83 FTAs per game, Dirk 9.16 FTAs per game (1.76 above season average)

Ironically, Duncan enjoyed a higher FT boost than Wade did over regular season averages. Now, there's a lot of factors that go into that, considering that the Spurs don't generally run their offense through Duncan in the regular season (he rarely goes for 30+ in a regular season game), whereas in the playoffs he becomes the focal point of the Spurs offense. Duncan shot over 50% of his points in the paint, whereas Wade shot 35% of his points in the paint.

I have to give credit to the Heat for beating us in 2006. It does a franchise no good to adopt an excuses-making, sore loser mentality. There are basketball reasons above and beyond the refs that explains why that series turned out the way it did.

One thing is clear though: Spurs fans are totally full of shit to complain that the refs jobbed them in 2006, just as the Mavs fans are to say the same about the Finals. And it's totally false that the Mavs "got a taste of their own medicine" in the Finals when they weren't the beneficiary of lopsided officiating in the Spurs-Mavs series.

Look, I'm not gonna comment on the "ref issue", I have an opinion, but it doesn't matter for squat now. However, if you're gonna try and make a realistic argument about this, you need to allow for minutes played (and/or shot attempts in your statistics). For example, Duncan average 34.5 minutes in the regular season, and 41.5 against Dallas. He averaged 20.6 FGA in the dallas series, vs. 14.8 regular season... This kind of thing may account for a LOT of the variability you are seeing. It's realistic that his FTA/Game went up with his shot attempts.

Similary, Dirk averaged 19.3 FGA per game in the RS, 15.7 FGA per game against SA, and took 17.5 FGA/game against Miami. His shots went down, and his FTA/Game went up? Weird...

Wade, 18.8 FGA/Game RS, 23.16 fga/game against Dallas.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Hey Aggie, it was intentional:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teh

Lol, I know--should've put a little emoticon @ the end. I thought it was funny :D

[z0sa]

Typical excuses-making basketball fan.

lol Timmy getting hacked blatantly

[HarlemHeat37]

Look, I'm not gonna comment on the "ref issue", I have an opinion, but it doesn't matter for squat now. However, if you're gonna try and make a realistic argument about this, you need to allow for minutes played (and/or shot attempts in your statistics). For example, Duncan average 34.5 minutes in the regular season, and 41.5 against Dallas. He averaged 20.6 FGA in the dallas series, vs. 14.8 regular season... This kind of thing may account for a LOT of the variability you are seeing. It's realistic that his FTA/Game went up with his shot attempts.

Similary, Dirk averaged 19.3 FGA per game in the RS, 15.7 FGA per game against SA, and took 17.5 FGA/game against Miami. His shots went down, and his FTA/Game went up? Weird...

Wade, 18.8 FGA/Game RS, 23.16 fga/game against Dallas.

Good point..+ the fact that 81% of Dirk's FGA were jump shots from outside the paint, yet he still averaged 10 FTA per game, as I pointed out in the NBA forum..

I'm not complaining about the refs either, I accept that the Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006, I don't blame the refs at all, it happens..Pop and the Spurs could have avoided losing the series with some adjustments, it happens..it makes sense to point out the facts in this case though..

[Blackjack]

Aside from all the circumstances and/or decisions we as fans believe were detrimental or put the team behind the 8-ball that year, you've got to give Avery credit for his defensive gameplan: stay with the shooters, play Tim straight up.

This is what accounted for the majority of Tim's increased numbers and why he got to the line at a much better rate than the regular season. But it also completely changed the Spurs' rhythm and chemistry they'd been playing with all season (not to mention taxed Duncan significantly more and had him on fumes late in games because of his condition).

Tim was much less of a focal point in the offense than prior years for '06's regular season (due in large part to his PF) and the 4-down attack ceded way to more perimeter play. Tony and Manu began to cease more control of the reins and the role players had grown accustomed to playing that way.

The Mavs gameplan forced the Spurs' roster to play in a way they hadn't all year and had them trying to find their team's overall rhythm all over again; you've got to give the coaching staff credit for that.

[DJB]

the league had an Agenda that year , and it was to AVOID at all costs the Inevitable Spurs-Pistons rematch

[FromWayDowntown]

Why does this matter to anyone?

I don't think that officiating had anything to do with the outcome of the fabulous Spurs/Mavs series in 2006. I attended 5 of the 7 games and remain firmly convinced (as I did at the time) that they were among the most compelling playoff games I've seen -- of the nearly 100 that I've seen in person. Two closely-matched teams playing 6 really tight games that left little margin for error on either side. Things other than officiating make a difference in those sorts of games and I'm certain that the Spurs just didn't do enough little things to win 4 games in that series -- but they were REALLY close to doing just enough to win.

Were there calls or no-calls in Game 3 or Game 4 that hurt the Spurs? Yes. Were there calls or no-calls in Game 1 or Game 5 that hurt the Mavericks? Yes. Spurs fans want to point to the foul-out on Duncan in Game 3, but rarely question the no-call on Bowen (on what I thought was a close play) blocking Dirk at the end of Game 5.

Ultimately, the Spurs moved on and won a title in 2007. The Mavericks parlayed their good run in 2006 with a great regular season in 2006-07 and a playoff loss that, I think, strongly suggested that their collapse in 2006 was more a product of the Mavericks than of an officiating conspiracy favoring Dwyane Wade.

[roycrikside]

To the OP, correct. The refs absolutely fucked the Spurs in Games 3 and 4. SA should've won the series in 5. Really, even without the Manu foul in Game 7, the Spurs were the better team in 5 of the first 6 games.

[Obstructed_View]

Dallas won the 2006 series. I remember there being a number of questionable calls and Dallas parading to the free throw line an awful lot for a jump shooting team, but both teams played incredible that entire series, and it was unfortunate that only one of them could end up winning it.

That being said, what happened in the 2006 Finals was sweet, sweet poetic justice. Just like in 2004 when the Pistons bitchslapped the Fab Four Lakers.

One reason that happened is because the Mavs didn't settle for jump shots. Dirk spent far more time going to the rim and drawing contact. It's no coincidence how good the Mavericks got over the next year or more. In addition, the painted area for the Spurs was ripe for the picking because they had no shot blockers. Dirk, Stackhouse, Terry, and Harris all routinely got to the front of the rim with nobody to stop them but Duncan, which is why Duncan was in foul trouble so often during that series.

[boutons_deux]

"Mavs beat the Spurs in 2006 thanks to artificial help at the FT line"

no, Spurs beat themselves with Manu's fatal foul, violating Pop's instructions not to foul, on Dirk with the Spurs having the lead in the last seconds of Game7.

[dbestpro]

The games appeared to be not on the up and up. Whether, they were or not is moot. The point is if you have allowed yourself in today's world to appear to be wrong, then you are wrong. The NBA, overall, has lost the benefit of the doubt.

[Budkin]

2006 is pure pain for both Spurs and Mavs fans. The Spurs for the worst foul in the history of the NBA, and the Mavs for the worst choke in the history of the NBA. Pain Pain Pain.

[Findog]

2006 is pure pain for both Spurs and Mavs fans. The Spurs for the worst foul in the history of the NBA, and the Mavs for the worst choke in the history of the NBA. Pain Pain Pain.

Blazers beat the Sixers in the 77 Finals after being down 0-2. Numerous teams have blown 3-1 leads.

[admiralsnackbar]

Blazers beat the Sixers in the 77 Finals after being down 0-2. Numerous teams have blown 3-1 leads.

How about 2007, then?

[guzmangm]

Manu's brain fart cost us the series in the end. I think the Mavs got the benefit of the refs, which was a shame because they were a good enough team. On the other hand Olajuwon and the 95 Rockets beat the crap out of us hands down.

[Obstructed_View]

2006 is pure pain for both Spurs and Mavs fans. The Spurs for the worst foul in the history of the NBA, and the Mavs for the worst choke in the history of the NBA. Pain Pain Pain.

No, that wasn't until 2007.

[Findog]

How about 2007, then?

How about your mom, then? Mavs didn't choke in 2007. Isn't a choke when you blow a big lead? 2007 is more in the category of "shitting the bed."

[Findog]

No, that wasn't until 2007.

Arguably the greatest upset in NBA history, but not the biggest choke. You can't choke up a lead you never had.

[in2deep]

Isn't a choke when you blow a big lead? 2007 is more in the category of "shitting the bed."

wrong.

IT IS A CHOKE JOB when you are the #1 seed with 67 wins and home court throughout the playoffs and you lose in the 1st round to the lowly Warriors.

A 67 win season and the soon-to-be MVP both disappeared in 6 games = CHOKE JOB

[z0sa]

Arguably the greatest upset in NBA history, but not the biggest choke. You can't choke up a lead you never had.

Typical excuses making basketball fan.

When you have 67 wins, it doesn't matter who you play in the first round, you beat them or face the criticism.

How many Mavfans argue it wasn't even an upset, in fact, GS was better than Dallas all year! :lmao

[LoneStarState'sPride]

wrong.

IT IS A CHOKE JOB when you are the #1 seed with 67 wins and home court throughout the playoffs and you lose in the 1st round to the Warriors.

A 67 win season and the soon-to-be MVP both disappeared in 6 games = CHOKE

If that's not a choke job of epic proportions, I don't know what is. What I don't get is why everyone was so surprised. The mavs came heart-stoppingly close to letting SA pull off a series comeback after being down 3-1, and of course their shortcomings in the previous year's finals had already been well documented. Hell, take it all the way back to '03 or thereabouts, and if my memory serves me correctly the mavs got taken to 7 games by Sacramento after being up 3-0.

[Findog]

wrong.

IT IS A CHOKE JOB when you are the #1 seed with 67 wins and home court throughout the playoffs and you lose in the 1st round to the lowly Warriors.

A 67 win season and the soon-to-be MVP both disappeared in 6 games = CHOKE JOB

A choke is when you blow a big lead. The Mavs lost Game 1 and were never in control of that series. Huge upset? Sure. Historically embarassing? Sure.

Choke? Uh no. Once again, Spur fan demonstrates trouble with cognitive functioning and basic reasoning.

[Findog]

if my memory serves me correctly the mavs got taken to 7 games by Sacramento after being up 3-0.

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly.

[Cane]

A choke is when you blow a big lead. The Mavs lost Game 1 and were never in control of that series. Huge upset? Sure. Historically embarassing? Sure.

Choke? Uh no. Once again, Spur fan demonstrates trouble with cognitive functioning and basic reasoning.

Nope. "Choke" can mean a number of things in sports and the Mavs franchise has been a pretty good example of most of those definitions.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly.

Meh, don't care. I'm not an expert on mavs history, nor do I want to be, quite frankly.

[Findog]

Typical excuses making basketball fan.

What excuses did I make? The Warriors won that series fair and square.


When you have 67 wins, it doesn't matter who you play in the first round, you beat them or face the criticism.

Yep, and that criticism goes under the category of "huge upset" and "embarrassing letdown." I'm a stickler for precision, and that criticism doesn't entail taking them to task for choking. The Mavs were never ahead in that series . Choke = blowing a big lead.


How many Mavfans argue it wasn't even an upset, in fact, GS was better than Dallas all year!

Nobody argues that, so go debate your shadow.

[Findog]

Meh, don't care.

Then don't comment.

[FromWayDowntown]

Mav fan is really touchy about the use of the word "choke" associated with his team.

Apparently, the Mavs haven't ever choked. They've been hosed by referees (who gave them a chance to ice a 3-0 series lead at the free throw line) and they've suffered historically embarassing upsets, but they haven't choked.

[in2deep]

A choke is when you blow a big lead. The Mavs lost Game 1 and were never in control of that series. Huge upset? Sure. Historically embarassing? Sure.

Choke? Uh no. Once again, Spur fan demonstrates trouble with cognitive functioning and basic reasoning.

wrong again.

choke (chhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifk)
v. choked, chok·ing, chokes
v.tr.
4. To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest: choked by missing an easy putt on the final hole.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Then don't comment.

Don't think I didn't notice how you sidestepped every other comment I made except for the last one about a series in freaking '03.

[Findog]

Mav fan is really touchy about the use of the word "choke" associated with his team.

Apparently, the Mavs haven't ever choked. They've been hosed by referees (who gave them a chance to ice a 3-0 series lead at the free throw line) and they've suffered historically embarassing upsets, but they haven't choked.

If we accept the definition of choking as blowing a big lead, then I don't see how 2007 fits. If the definition expands to huge upset, then it does. I'm not aware that the latter has always been considered a part of the phenomenon of "choking." The Mets blowing that huge division lead a few years ago to the Phillies, the Yankees blowing a 3-0 lead, the Mavs blowing a 2.75 games to none lead in 2006, all of those fit the standard definition of choking.

[in2deep]

let's educate mavfan a little more:



In sports (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Sports), a choke is the failure of an athlete (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Athlete) or an athletic team to win a game (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Game) or tournament (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Tournament) when the player or team had been strongly favored to win or had squandered a large lead in the late stages of the event. Someone who chokes may be known as a choker or, more derisively, as a choke artist. Choking in sport can be considered a form of analysis paralysis (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Analysis_paralysis).
The opposite of choking is to be clutch (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Clutch_(sports)). A clutch player or team rises to the occasion under pressure rather than collapsing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(sports)

[Findog]

To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest choked by missing an easy putt on the final hole.

Do you think putting something in giant text is for my benefit because I use reading glasses at the computer screen? Calm down.

:lol wikipedia. I didn't realize that some random dude editing a wiki page is the final authority now. How do we know the Mavs suffered from nervous agitation. Could it be that they were out-executed, out-hustled and out-played by the Warrriors?

[in2deep]

:lol he still doesn't get it

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Findog, you are a retard if you honestly believe that '07 was not a choke job by the mavs. A #1 seed is ALWAYS favored over an #8 seed, and not only could the mavs not get the job done, they got curbstomped in the process.

[Findog]

:lol he still doesn't get it

:lol wikipedia. You know universities don't allow the use of wikipedia as an acceptable citation, right?

:lol cut n pasting some random dude on the internet to back up your argument.

[FromWayDowntown]

If we accept the definition of choking as blowing a big lead, then I don't see how 2007 fits. If the definition expands to huge upset, then it does. I'm not aware that the latter has always been considered a part of the phenomenon of "choking." The Mets blowing that huge division lead a few years ago to the Phillies, the Yankees blowing a 3-0 lead, the Mavs blowing a 2.75 games to none lead in 2006, all of those fit the standard definition of choking.

But the 2006 NBA Finals doesn't count, despite the 2-0 lead and despite Nowitzki's FTA to ice Game 3, because that was a conspiracy, not a choke, is that right?

[in2deep]

:lol wikipedia. You know universities don't allow the use of wikipedia as an acceptable citation, right?

:lol cut n pasting some random dude on the internet to back up your argument.

what's sadder is you going by your own personal definition of the word and not the rest of the world's :lol

[Findog]

Findog, you are a retard if you honestly believe that '07 was not a choke job by the mavs. A #1 seed is ALWAYS favored over an #8 seed, and not only could the mavs not get the job done, they got curbstomped in the process.

Blowing a big lead is a choke job. The Mavs never led in that series. Embarrassing upset? Of course. If embarrassing upset is now synonymous with choke, then yeah, it's a choke. Is the Giants beating the Bills in the Super Bowl a choke job? What about Northern Iowa beating Kansas in this year's tournament? Is that a choke job?

Since when does "huge upset" automatically equal choke?

[nkdlunch]

holy shit. I didn't know Findawg was this stupid.

[FromWayDowntown]

Is the Giants beating the Bills in the Super Bowl a choke job?

A 13-3 team beating a 13-3 team?

[Findog]

what's sadder is you going by your own personal definition of the word and not the rest of the world's :lol

You're the one being lazy and using wikipedia.

[Findog]

A 13-3 team beating a 13-3 team?

They were huge underdogs.

The Warriors made a mid-season trade (two white boys for Jackson and Harrington) and went 15-2 in March and April with their new 8-man rotation fully healthy. That's a winning percentage of .882. They were a much-improved team after the trade. Mavs still should've beaten them, but you're an idiot if you think there was a 25-game gap in talent between the two teams.

[Findog]

holy shit. I didn't know Findawg was this stupid.

Be quiet burrito breath, the grownups are discussing basketball.

[admiralsnackbar]

How about your mom, then? Mavs didn't choke in 2007. Isn't a choke when you blow a big lead? 2007 is more in the category of "shitting the bed."

Depends on your definition, I guess. You can choke in a game where you're ahead, then drop it. You can choke in a series by giving up your 3 game lead. Or you can choke in a season when you're a #1 seed and you lose to the 8th. YMMV.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/mavschoke.jpg

[Findog]

But the 2006 NBA Finals doesn't count, despite the 2-0 lead and despite Nowitzki's FTA to ice Game 3, because that was a conspiracy, not a choke, is that right?

Jeez, when did you become a retarded mouth-breather? Did you suffer through an episode of oxygen not getting to your brain?


the Mavs blowing a 2.75 games to none lead in 2006...fits the standard definition of choking.

[Findog]

Depends on your definition, I guess. You can choke in a game where you're ahead, then drop it. You can choke in a series by giving up your 3 game lead. Or you can choke in a season when you're a #1 seed and you lose to the 8th. YMMV.

I'll accept that the Mavs choked in 2007 if it is the prevailing norm that a huge upset automatically equals choking. I was aware that having a big lead and blowing it equals choking, but it's news to me that an upset is automatically a choke.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

A huge upset automatically equals choking WHEN THE TEAM THAT IS UPSET IS FAVORED TO WIN. I don't care what the specific circumstances there were that you mavs fans mollycoddle yourselves with so you can sleep at night, but in the real world, a 67 win team is NEVER the underdog to an eighth seed. Especially coming off a Finals trip the year before. That is choking, pure and simple.

[in2deep]

You're the one being lazy and using wikipedia.

Stop being a retard. I just showed you the whole world's definition of choking is not performing successfully when you are the favorite.

If you had any sense you would try to understand instead of being in denial. I thought you were better than that.

[Findog]

Stop being a retard. I just showed you the whole world's definition of choking is not performing successfully when you are the favorite.

You showed me a link to wikipedia. That's embarrassing.

[Findog]

in the real world, a 67 win team is NEVER the underdog to an eighth seed.

I never said that they were. Find one Mav fan anywhere that says that they were. I've always disputed that it's a "choke" when they never led in that series, when they lost the season series 4-0, and when the Warriors made a major mid-season trade that significantly erased the talent gap between the two teams. The Mavs still should've won that series, but I have a hard time accepting the premise that it was a huge choke and nothing more than an upset because of all those factors. Doesn't change the fact that it was an embarrassing and painful flameout to end the season, but it doesn't fit the definition of a choke to me.

[FromWayDowntown]

Jeez, when did you become a retarded mouth-breather? Did you suffer through an episode of oxygen not getting to your brain?

My bad. I'm confusing you with the chorus of Mavs fans who have screamed conspiracy. I shouldn't have done that.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I never said that they were. Find one Mav fan anywhere that says that they were. I've always disputed that it's a "choke" when they never led in that series, when they lost the season series 4-0, and when the Warriors made a major mid-season trade that significantly erased the talent gap between the two teams. The Mavs still should've won that series, but I have a hard time accepting the premise that it was a huge choke and nothing more than an upset because of all those factors. Doesn't change the fact that it was an embarrassing and painful flameout to end the season, but it doesn't fit the definition of a choke to me.

Based on the above drivel, I shudder to think of how other words "fit" your convoluted "definitions."

[Findog]

Based on the above drivel, I shudder to think of how other words "fit" your convoluted "definitions."

Okay.

[Kool Bob Love]

THE ONLY SAD THING ABOUT THIS FINDOG GUY IS HE IS A MAVS FAN ON A SPURS FOURM WITH OVER 18,000+ post...
It shows that he has no LIFE and no one likeS him....:wakeup
OR IT MIGHT BE THAT HE WANTS TO KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE A CHAMPION....:lol:lol:lol:rollin

[callo1]

Dirk got the benefit of calls because he is a soft 7-footer who gets perimeter player treatment...that being said, Manu's reach costs the Spurs the game.

Mav fans got the same treatment when Wade was usheres to the line time after time, so I enjoyed that.

I will root for any professional team in Texas except the Mavericks, due to Cuban, and the way most (not all) MAV fans follows his sophmoric persona.

[callo1]

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/mavschoke.jpg


Can you change that to the Official Soft Dirk of the Dallas Mavericks...if so it would be perfect, as it stands now, it is already hilarious.

[z0sa]

What excuses did I make? The Warriors won that series fair and square.

It actually doesn't matter since I never made excuses either, but excusing the Mavs from a choke still counts.


Yep, and that criticism goes under the category of "huge upset" and "embarrassing letdown." I'm a stickler for precision, and that criticism doesn't entail taking them to task for choking. The Mavs were never ahead in that series. Choke = blowing a big lead.

Uh, the Mavs did have a lead - a 5+ game lead, at the end of the season, which gave them the 1 seed overall. Which is why they got to play the 8th seed.

Not every team gets the honor of playing the worst team in the bracket at home 4 of 7.




Nobody argues that, so go debate your shadow.

I remember plenty of times Mavfan argued GS beat them all year and had their number, so it was not actually an upset (or choke, apparently).

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Can you change that to the Official Soft Dirk of the Dallas Mavericks...if so it would be perfect, as it stands now, it is already hilarious.

As requested.........

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/mavschoke-1.gif

:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Boss]

Man I remember Mavs vs Spurs in 2006 way too good. I thought Mavs got every call in game 2 and it prevented the Spurs from ever making a comeback. Games 3 and 4 were the most frustrating because the Spurs seemed to hit clutch shot after shot down the stretch and mavs would match it by getting free throws which they hit.

Game 7 was a great game as the Spurs came back from down 20 and took their first lead w/ seconds to play and then the inexplicable foul by Manu help send it into OT, which mavs won fair and square.

This was the 1st time I ever questioned Pop as the Spurs would constantly go small w/ Duncan Bowen Finley Manu and Parker. We couldn't get stops and The Mavs killed us w/ off rebounds. The Spurs were committed to resigning Nazr Mohammed in the off season but he had no interest after not getting any PT in the series.

Mavs were a way better team vs Heat in the finals. They got up 2-0 and blew a great opp to make it 3-0. In the final 4 games (all heat wins) D Wade shot 73 free throws over 18 free throws a game. Stern's biggest nightmare would be having to present the trophy to Cuban

[LoneStarState'sPride]

All joking (and choking) aside, though, that was one of the BEST playoff series I've ever witnessed. Game 7 was even more compelling than the '05 Finals finale. Of course it sticks in my craw that SA didn't come out on top, but that was probably one of the best series' of the aughts.

And the better team won, as I believe is always the case in 7 game series.

[Findog]

Mav fans got the same treatment when Wade was usheres to the line time after time, so I enjoyed that.


:lol

You're good at teh maths.

[Findog]

I AM A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL

[Obstructed_View]

Arguably the greatest upset in NBA history, but not the biggest choke. You can't choke up a lead you never had.

Choking has nothing to do with having a lead, it has to do with not performing when it matters. A 67 win team losing in six games to a 42 win team is a choke. If you'd like, we could come up with a new verb.

They Mavved it away.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Wade at least was making things happen to get to the line in the Finals.

Most of the fouls on the Spurs series were ridiculous, an absolut different standard on each end of the court. The Mavs jumpshot with an open look, and there was a whistle, Duncan, Parker and Manu get fouled by double teams and the refs ate their whistles.

Dirk Nowitzki must really be good at sucking refs cocks, because I've never seen a jumpshooter get so many bogus calls in the NBA. Also scrubs like Jason Terry were being sent to the line for no reason.

That was one of the worst officiated, one-sided series I've ever seen in the NBA, since I'm watching the league (1993).

[Findog]

Choking has nothing to do with having a lead, it has to do with not performing when it matters. A 67 win team losing in six games to a 42 win team is a choke. If you'd like, we could come up with a new verb.

They Mavved it away.

That's fine, we can call it 'mavving.' It was an embarrassing flame out. But as to the bolded part: Bullshit. The argument centers on whether or not a big upset is a facet of choking. Blowing a big lead is absolutely a facet of choking.

[ShoogarBear]

2007: Ball Don't Lie

[AnthonyM]

Is it fair to assume this about Findog:

He would rather circle jerk with the MavsKrew than suck up to a Spurs fan?

[ShoogarBear]

Findog is solid people. He can't help it that he's geographically disadvantaged.

[callo1]

As requested.........

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/mavschoke-1.gif

:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

Me Like!!

Nice touch leaving the d in lower case, since dirk brings little d to the table:)

[Avitus1]

The 2006 series can be summed up by a dumb foul by Manu.

As for the Finals Mavs were up by 2 and then took their foot off the pedal.

That's the way it goes... 07 was a great year though.

[TampaDude]

To be fair, the Manu foul happened with 21 seconds remaining. There is no guarantee the Spurs would've won that game even if Manu hadn't fouled Dirk. 21 seconds is an eternity in the NBA.

[Obstructed_View]

That's fine, we can call it 'mavving.' It was an embarrassing flame out. But as to the bolded part: Bullshit. The argument centers on whether or not a big upset is a facet of choking. Blowing a big lead is absolutely a facet of choking.

Choking is failing to perform up to expectations, particularly once the pressure mounts. Suggesting that it's not would be like suggesting that the Mavs weren't expected to beat the Warriors.

[easy7]

Findog is an undercover Spurs fan. :lmao

[Biggems]

the refs did suck that series, but we lost cause we were stupid late in games. Manu was a turnover machine in the closing minutes of the 3 close losses. we missed easy shots, layups and FTs. up by 3, we foul Dirk on a layup attempt, instead of letting him score and making them foul us. We miss 2 layup attempts to win the series, only to go to OT and lose.

[guzmangm]

Was this the series where Duncan gets called for a foul because Dirk steps on his foot?

[TheChillFactor]

Was this the series where Duncan gets called for a foul because Dirk steps on his foot?

yes, i believe game 5....

[Obstructed_View]

Was this the series where Duncan gets called for a foul because Dirk steps on his foot?

Yes. Too bad Duncan had five fouls because he was having to defend the paint all by himself due to Finley playing power forward.

[urunobili]

Findog is an undercover Spurs fan. :lmao

I always thought he was a whottt troll :wakeup