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The Ressurrected One
05-05-2005, 10:20 AM
One of the most liberal columnist in Britain (For those who don't know, Bush-hating Liberals here don't hold a candle to those across the pond) appears to be leaving the reservation!

You'd better reign this guy in before all the dominoes tumble.

Perhaps the neocons got it right in the Middle East (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1475994,00.html)

We should not be blinded by liberal prejudice when assessing Bush



Wednesday May 4, 2005

Those of us who work on the gloomy side of the prediction industry about Iraq, the prospects for Middle East peace, and the sanity of the Bush administration, have been given plenty to think about lately. On the one hand, on Monday the 87th British soldier was killed in Iraq, while suicide bombs and armed clashes have accounted for more than 40 Iraqi deaths since last week. On the other, the Bush administration is in triumphalist mode. A friend who visited the White House recently described the president's buoyant account of his Iraqi crusade, which highlighted the fact that a national government has been formed. Some progress is claimed towards normalisation in Shia and Kurdish regions. Syrian withdrawal gives Lebanon a chance of making something of democracy. Washington asserts that it is involving itself more than ever in the Middle East peace process.

None of these claims should be dismissed out of hand. The greatest danger for those of us who dislike George Bush is that our instincts may tip over into a desire to see his foreign policy objectives fail. No reasonable person can oppose the president's commitment to Islamic democracy. Most western Bushophobes are motivated not by dissent about objectives, but by a belief that the Washington neocons' methods are crass, and more likely to escalate a confrontation between the west and Islam than to defuse it.
Such scepticism, however, should not prevent us from stepping back to reassess the progress of the Bush project, and satisfy ourselves that mere prejudice is not blinding us to the possibility that western liberals are wrong; that the Republicans' grand strategy is getting somewhere.

It may sound perverse to suggest that we should not measure progress in Iraq solely, or even chiefly, by counting corpses. Yet most insurgent activity is the work of Sunnis, chronically alienated by dispossession from power, or jihadists committed simply to frustrate any project sponsored by the US.

The key question, surely, is how far the Shia and Kurd majority is moving towards the creation of a working society. Evidence on this is mixed. Journalists are able to travel so little outside the Baghdad enclave that the world depends for information chiefly on western military and diplomatic sources.

My own contacts say that the situation is improving, but remains precarious. They suggest that criminal anarchy is gradually being stemmed. The recruitment and training of Iraqi security forces is going a little better.

It is hard to derive much comfort from statistics that show a diminution in clashes between insurgents and security forces. These principally reflect a lower-profile strategy by the coalition, designed to reduce confrontation and casualties.

The most powerful reason for remaining cautious about Iraq must be doubt — shared by many US officers — about whether the country is sus*tainable as a unitary state. It is hard to believe that the Sunnis will quickly reconcile themselves to Shia supremacy, or that the Shias now leading the government will forswear payback for decades of subjection. The Kurds will do their own thing in their own region. Only fear of American wrath and Turkish intervention can dissuade them from breakaway.

It seems wrong for either neocon true believers or liberal sceptics to rush to judgment. We of the latter persuasion must keep reciting the mantra: "We want Iraq to come right, even if this vindicates George Bush."

Those who say that Iraqis are incapable of making a democracy work may well be proved right. But until we see what happens on the ground over the months ahead, we should not write off the possibility that the Iraqi people will forge some sort of accommodation. A premature coalition withdrawal promises catastrophe for them, not us.

The same caution seems appropriate in assessing the current dialogue between the US, the Israelis and the Palestinians. I suggested before the Iraq war that Saddam's fall might make the Israelis less tractable. For all the Muslim world's protestations of support for the Palestinians, most Arabs have little liking for their oppressed brethren, and no desire to go to the wall for them.

Today, deprived of Iraqi support and with Syria also in retreat, the Palestinians are chiefly dependent for their own future upon international goodwill; a doubtful commodity. Israelis have always believed that their own security is best served by ensuring that the Palestinians are as weak as possible. Washington seems to acquiesce in this view.

Many of us, by contrast, believe that the best chance of peace lies in creating a settlement that offers a Palestinian state the chance of political, economic and social viability. Today the new Palestinian leadership is talking, because there is nothing else it can do. The litmus test is whether Israel accepts an ultimate commitment to withdraw from the West Bank. If this remains unlikely, it seems naive to suggest that peace prospects are improving, merely because violence is temporarily eclipsed.

Washington's current optimism seems founded upon the fact that Palestinian militants command less Arab support than three years ago, because of the huge American military pressure. In short, the fundamentals still look pretty awful. Any peace founded merely upon Palestinian subjection, rather than upon territorial justice, seems unlikely to stick.

Here, indeed, is the nub of the issue about American foreign policy. The Bush vision is founded upon the exercise of military power. It is hard to regard Condoleezza Rice's "charm offensive" or the state department's protestations that in the second Bush term diplomacy will blossom, as more than cosmetic. The president himself has declared that, while he welcomes more allies, they must accept that the game will be played on Washington's terms.

We must respect American power, and also acknowledge that the world sometimes has much need of it. As Sir Michael Howard, wisest of British strategic thinkers, often remarks: "If America does not do things, nobody else will." We should acknowledge the limitations of the UN. The pitiful performance of many international peacekeeping contingents, not least in Afghanistan, highlights the feebleness of what passes for European security policy.

Yet it still seems reasonable to question the optimism currently prevailing among Washington's neocons, because this remains founded upon a woefully simplistic vision. It is true that, in some chronic, unstable regions, some bad governments — those of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein — have been removed by the Americans. But the fragile advantages gained will be lost, unless Washington can match its boldness in the deployment of military power with a new sensitivity to alien cultures, matched by far more subtle political skills.

Nbadan
05-05-2005, 12:49 PM
Yet it still seems reasonable to question the optimism currently prevailing among Washington's neocons, because this remains founded upon a woefully simplistic vision. It is true that, in some chronic, unstable regions, some bad governments — those of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein — have been removed by the Americans. But the fragile advantages gained will be lost, unless Washington can match its boldness in the deployment of military power with a new sensitivity to alien cultures, matched by far more subtle political skills.

Well, so much for this war. This adminstration doesn't know the first thing about diplomacy. Funny how conservatives are always screaming premature victory. Timely given the recent two year anniversary of the 'Mission Accomplished' fiasco.

The Ressurrected One
05-05-2005, 04:56 PM
Well, so much for this war. This adminstration doesn't know the first thing about diplomacy. Funny how conservatives are always screaming premature victory. Timely given the recent two year anniversary of the 'Mission Accomplished' fiasco.
Funny how you fail to understand the difference between the Ba'athist regime of Saddam Hussein and the insurgents.

Hint: We're in a different war now...

The mission to topple the oppressive regime of Saddam Hussein was accomplished.

The Ressurrected One
05-05-2005, 05:00 PM
Dan, I truly believe you'll be the last Bush-hating liberal to leave the reservation. Please turn out the lights on your way...

Clandestino
05-06-2005, 01:35 AM
talk to me about the bush victory in iraq 25 years from now when the little iraqi kids grow up

you will probably be in jail on drug related charges...

Nbadan
05-06-2005, 01:37 AM
you will probably be in jail on drug related charges...

:lol

Clandestino
05-06-2005, 10:48 AM
all your posts refer to drugs..

but no, i wouldn't visit you.... if you had an e-mail connection i'd send you an e-mail... the way prisons are going you will probably have that and much, much more.

The Ressurrected One
05-06-2005, 10:54 AM
?

who says i do drugs?
Then you're intellectually challenged. Because, only those two things explain your strange positions. It's either trauma-, organically- or chemically-induced ignorance.

Which is it?

The Ressurrected One
05-06-2005, 11:27 AM
at least i can spell resurrected
Now, you just need to work on capitalization and grammer. Yes, picking on people's typing skills -- the last weapon for which a lost argument can reach.

Clandestino
05-06-2005, 11:49 AM
ALL my posts refer to drugs?

are you sure about that?

not all mannyjr...but enough do...



Three names you go by:
1. Patrick
2.
3.

Three screen names you have:
1. elpimpo4cc
2. smokeweeder
3.

Three things you like about yourself:
1. my complete lack of regard
2. my little penis
3. my spelling skills

Three things you hate/dislike about yourself:
1. my singing voice (i should sing solo...so low you can't hear me)
2. my poor eyesight
3. my anger problem

Three parts of your heritage:
1. texan
2. texan
3. texan

Three things that scare you:
1. US government
2. citizens brainwashed by the US government
3. nuclear war (and carneys...small hands, smell like cabbage)

Three of your everyday essentials:
1. shit
2. shower
3. shave

Three things you are wearing right now:
1. shirt
2. glasses
3. sambas

Three of your favorite bands/artists:
1. nofx
2. grateful dead
3. bob dylan (before he sooooold out)

Three of your favorite songs at present:
1. visions of johanna (dylan)
2. the decline (nofx)
3. front porch (umphreys mcgee)

Three new things you want to try in the next 12 months:
1. schlitterbahn with goggles
2. heroin in portugal (heard you can shoot up on the steps of the capitol building and it's completely legal)
3. saying something Politcally 'conservative' on spurstalk and seeing how clandestino, TRO, and co. react

Three things you want in a relationship (love is a given):
1. trust
2. baths
3. affection

Three physical things that appeal to you about those to whom you are attracted:
1. eyes
2. hair
3. wit

Three things you just can't do:
1. vote along party lines
2. quit smoking for good
3. not want Duncan to get 40/20/10 every night

Three of your favorite hobbies:
1. reading
2. writing
3. video games

Three things you want to do very much right now:
1. smoke cig
2. smoke weed
3. see my girlfriend

Three places you want to go on vacation:
1. portugal
2. andorra
3. amsterdaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmnnnnnnnn

Three kids' names: for either a boy or girl:
1. tuesday
2. tim duncan junior
3. steve kerr the fifth

Three things you want to do before you die:
1. scoff george w. bush to his face
2. skydive
3. get a novel published

The Ressurrected One
05-06-2005, 11:52 AM
What is that euphemism? hmmm.... Oh Yeah!


OWNED!