Hoopsworld:Parker playing to remain a spur

[SinBAD]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15935

With a win this past Monday night the San Antonio Spurs secured their 11th straight season with at least 50 wins. As impressive of a feat as this may be, it's one that the organization could not care less about.

It does say a lot about the franchise and the people in it though. They've established themselves as model of consistency in the league with great patience, scouting, and coaching. They've never looked for the "quick fix" - in fact, this offseason could be considered out of character for them since they pulled off a rare blockbuster deal.

The trade, which brought Richard Jefferson to San Antonio for spare parts and expiring contracts, was a prototypical Spurs trade. They were clearly the winners and it appeared as if Jefferson's arrival would vault them back into contention in the ultra-competitive Western Conference. At least that's how it was supposed to happen.

There's just one game left in the regular season and the Spurs find themselves in an unfamiliar position. They can finish no higher than sixth in the West, meaning they'll definitely be on the road to start off the postseason. Their opponent is up in the air as well, they could be facing the Dallas Mavericks, Utah Jazz, Phoenix Suns, or Denver Nuggets – four teams all capable of eliminating them in a seven-game-series.

The Spurs were eliminated in the first round last year at the hands of the Mavericks. A second consecutive early exit would be looked at as nothing other than unacceptable. Coach Popovich said prior to the start of the season he should be fired if he can't win a championship with the team he's been given.

That is of course out of the question, even if the Spurs don't make it to the semifinals. Popovich is one of the best coaches in the history of the business and is the main architect behind the Spurs rise to prominence. He knows what it takes to win in this league and if the Spurs let him go they risk making the same mistake the Kings and Bulls did when the let go of the likes of Rick Adelman and Phil Jackson.

There's always been a general consensus Pop could call it a career whenever Tim Duncan retires. Getting his pink slip could be all the added motivation he needs to go help another team achieve similar results and prolong his already Hall of Fame-worthy career.

So with the most common scapegoat out of the way, the Spurs would have no choice other than to make some major roster changes this summer if they want to keep up with the Los Angeles Lakers, Mavericks, and Nuggets because those teams are going nowhere.

Everyone knows how crazy things are going to be this summer, we've been looking forward to it for over two years now. At one point the Spurs had quietly positioned themselves to have only Duncan and Tony Parker under contract in 2010-2011. Now they also have Jefferson and the newly-extended Manu Ginobili on the books, which puts them over the cap just with their four contracts. Jefferson recently mentioned opting out as a possibility. Should he make the foolish decision to walk away from $15 million the Spurs would still have a hard time signing a free agent of significance with the other players they're committed to.

Earlier in the season the Spurs were said to be open to trading Parker for the first time since he's grown into one of the league's premier point guards. They quickly dismissed the notion, but could be much more open to the idea if they don't last past the round one again.

Trading Parker appears to be the most logical idea since Ginobili will be hard to move due to his fat new contract worth $40 million over the next three years. It's also highly unlikely Duncan would ever get shipped off. He's done too much for the organization and it'd be a shame for him to finish his career anywhere other than San Antonio. Jefferson wouldn't garner much in return with his value never being lower, making Parker the most likely to see a change in address.
George Hill's emergence has taken away from Tony's security somewhat. The second-year guard out of IUPUI has proven to be more than capable of steering the ship while Parker is out and can also play off the ball at shooting guard.

Like Duncan, Parker is pretty content in San Antonio himself. It's the only NBA team he's ever played for, he's won three championships there, and it's where he and his wife live. His desire to move is minimal and luckily for him his future is really in his hands.

There's no way to look at this year as anything other than a down season for Parker coming off of a career-best 22 points and seven assists a game in 08-09. He has not taken the next step forward into an MVP-caliber player the team needed and was hoping for him to become.

The main cause for his struggles has undoubtedly been injuries. Against the wishes of the organization Parker played internationally this summer and it's definitely taken a toll on his game and health. Breaking a bone in his hand in early March against the Memphis Grizzlies served as a blessing in disguise as he finally got some much needed rest; otherwise he never would have gotten the down time he needed since the Spurs were in such a close race and his intense competitive nature.

Now Parker is fresh headed into the playoffs where the Spurs could be an underdog for the first time in over a decade. For them to stay alive he has to take his game to that next level similar to where he was when he earned Finals MVP honors in 2007. If not, we could be seeing the last of the Big Three in San Antonio.



Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15935#ixzz0l1s0b6Vw

[bdictjames]

It will be a sad day in Spurnation to see the Big Three not together.

I can't really see Manu or Tony playing against us in a game. Let TP retire here.

[Blackjack]

Coach Popovich said prior to the start of the season he should be fired if he can't win a championship with the team he's been given.

Facetious.

The people that keep on writing this might want to look it up.

[DesignatedT]

this team is going no where without tony. Manu even admits hes totally exhausted from having to play without tony for so long.

[Kori Ellis]

Hill is being molded into Pops pg of the future....

Pop wants Hill as his SG of the future, actually.

So if they traded Tony, they'd want another PG.

[TheSullyMonster]

Like Duncan, Parker is pretty content in San Antonio himself. It's the only NBA team he's ever played for, he's won three championships there, and it's where he and his wife live. His desire to move is minimal and luckily for him his future is really in his hands.

Four, damnit.

[Mel_13]

Four, damnit.

TP has 3

[Blackjack]

Yeah, if they trade Tony and don't get anything back they're screwed . . .

If this team can't win a championship with the Big 3 and the model they've had so much success with, trading Tony's their only real option to get back to the top. But it's not something you do just to do, you've got to get the right package back.

Of course, that package might not exist. And then the Spurs have to decide to either ride the Big 3 until the wheels fall off (probably looking a lot like the Jazz from the early part of the last decade) or start the rebuilding process.

[Blackjack]

That is if Tony decides to stick around . . .

[DesignatedT]

Yeah, if they trade Tony and don't get anything back they're screwed . . .

If this team can't win a championship with the Big 3 and the model they've had so much success with, trading Tony's their only real option to get back to the top. But it's not something you do just to do, you've got to get the right package back.

Of course, that package might not exist. And then the Spurs have to decide to either ride the Big 3 until the wheels fall off (probably looking a lot like the Jazz from the early part of the last decade) or start the rebuilding process.

trading rj is still an option... not everyone would fit in as bad as he has.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think the Spurs will look to trade much of anyone this offseason (except maybe RJ?)... They are probably banking on Splitter/Blair shoring up the front court, and think that the Manu/TP/Hill combination of guards is good enough to compete over the next few years.

[DAF86]

I don't get why people say that Jefferson would be so hard to move. I think the Spurs could even trade me and get some very interesting pieces if I were on a 15 mil expiring contract.

[DesignatedT]

If we do end up not performing in the playoffs then i would much rather trade RJ than trade Tony... Trade him for another player around his caliber who can play.. then rely on our young talent... hill,splitter,blair,hairston to continue to grow.... RJ has really not been a good fit here... although he is playing much better as of late and im glad to see it...

Just think... If RJ played like he has recently for all season and Manu played like he has recently all season and Tony stayed away from injuries our record would be 1-2 in the west IMO.

[Mel_13]

I don't get why people say that Jefferson would be so hard to move. I think the Spurs could even trade me and get some very interesting pieces if I were on a 15 mil expiring contract.

There probably would be customers for a 15M expiring contract, but those teams will want to move players owed much more than that over a period of several years.

[DesignatedT]

There probably would be customers for a 15M expiring contract, but those teams will want to move players owed much more than that over a period of several years.

not much more than that... but we will definitely have to take on some years if were trading an expiring.. same goes for tony pretty much.

[Mel_13]

not much more than that... but we will definitely have to take on some years if were trading an expiring

What's your definition of not much more?

Even if they only take back 3yrs/36M, they have still added 21M in future obligations.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think the Spurs will look to trade much of anyone this offseason (except maybe RJ?)... They are probably banking on Splitter/Blair shoring up the front court, and think that the Manu/TP/Hill combination of guards is good enough to compete over the next few years.

Yeah, I really doubt the Spurs are trading Parker for anyone not named Deron, Paul, or Rondo.

[MannyIsGod]

No doubt spurs will look to deal him this offseason. He could bring in needed picks and players that could help us make one more run. Hill is being molded into Pops pg of the future, Manu is locked up, Rj isnt going anywhere next year most likely.

I would love to hear how Hill is being molded into the PG of the future when he's not even the primary ball handler with Parker out.

This should be good.

[gilmor]

I don't think the Spurs will look to trade much of anyone this offseason (except maybe RJ?)... They are probably banking on Splitter/Blair shoring up the front court, and think that the Manu/TP/Hill combination of guards is good enough to compete over the next few years.

That's correctly said. As I told Aggie in another thread, Spurs is probably looking at a 2 to 3 years window. Whereby thereafter, Tim and Manu would have retired.

Question is should they trade Parker within this 2 to 3 years for another PG or can they find another PG to play in this 2 to 3-year window? What happen after 3 years is not going to matter any more as the whole Spurs team will be different.

[DesignatedT]

What's your definition of not much more?

Even if they only take back 3yrs/36M, they have still added 21M in future obligations.

Well i mean if they don't make a trade and they decide to commit to tony they're going to have to give an extension worth that to him anyway... Unless the spurs go into some sort of re-building mode there going to have to keep giving money away.. whether its taking on a bigger contract from another player or giving tony an extension... its inevitable.

The FO shouldn't be too worried about taking on another contract IF the player is young enough because in 2 years you will have duncan coming off the books and 3 years manu will come off the books. which will free up a boatload of cash.

[Blackjack]

I don't think the Spurs will look to trade much of anyone this offseason (except maybe RJ?)... They are probably banking on Splitter/Blair shoring up the front court, and think that the Manu/TP/Hill combination of guards is good enough to compete over the next few years.

That's definitely the takeaway I got from Lindsey and RC in recent interviews.

If they could move RJ for a better package or player (most likely an Iguodala-type player with a good chunk of salary and years remaining), that could very well get them back where they want be. Whether the right player or package presents itself that allows Holt to commit to that much salary? That's another question.

If the Spurs can add Iguodala to the Big 3 and Splitter comes over, health permitting, the Spurs would be right back atop the league IMO. That health thing is a pretty big 'if', though . . .

Tony and RJ are the best assets the Spurs have and Tony's value will never be higher ... they've got to at least explore their options.

[Pauleta14]

That's correctly said. As I told Aggie in another thread, Spurs is probably looking at a 2 to 3 years window. Whereby thereafter, Tim and Manu would have retired.

Question is should they trade Parker within this 2 to 3 years for another PG or can they find another PG to play in this 2 to 3-year window? What happen after 3 years is not going to matter any more as the whole Spurs team will be different.


2 or 3 years means Tony would have a new contract... (how long/much?)

I think they have to take a decision about Tony this summer, waiting 1more year would be either too riscky for them or more expensive if they finaly extend him (i.e Manu's "max" deal)

[HarlemHeat37]

Iggy is the guy I've been thinking about for months, and I think he's the only possible option that makes sense for both parties IMO..the question then becomes whether or not Holt and ownership would be willing to take on the rest of Iguodala's contract..

I don't see anybody else that could be realistic in a deal for Jefferson, unless the Spurs want to take back multiple pieces, which makes things complicated..

As for Parker, I think a lot of people here are overvaluing him..when he's healthy, he's undoubtedly a top 5 player, but he means more to the Spurs than he would for another team..I don't see why a team would give up a good draft pick for him unless they're willing to win now, and teams that are looking to win now don't usually have a good draft pick to part with..

Looking at other teams, I don't see it..I can't really see a deal that could help both teams..

[Pauleta14]

Tony's value will never be higher ...


I keep reading that quite often on ST and don't get it...

Tony is soon 28 !!!! ONLY!

Don't be so pescimistic! Even if he loses a bit of speed, his PG skill and overall BB IQ are only going to get better!

Just look at Kidd at 35 or something, running 82 games like he was 20!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah I don't get the Tony's value will never be higher belief.

[The Truth #6]

I don't see how anyone can know for sure what the FO plans to do. Even if they wanted to trade Parker, why would they admit it now with the playoffs about to start?

[Mel_13]

I keep reading that quite often on ST and don't get it...

Tony is soon 28 !!!! ONLY!

Don't be so pescimistic! Even if he loses a bit of speed, his PG skill and overall BB IQ are only going to get better!

Just look at Kidd at 35 or something, running 82 games like he was 20!!!

Saying his trade value will never be higher is not the same as saying he can't get better as a basketball player.

This summer, he's a 28yr old, 3 time All-Star, Finals MVP on an expiring contract in an NBA with multiple teams with huge amounts of cap space and multiple top-level players poised to change teams.

It's also the last summer before the new CBA.

Next summer, he could only be moved in a S&T. In 2012 and 2013, he'll come with a long-term deal if he's still with the Spurs. Plus he'll be over 30.

So it's not unreasonable to say that Tony's trade value will never be higher than it will be in the summer of 2010.

[pad300]

Iggy is the guy I've been thinking about for months, and I think he's the only possible option that makes sense for both parties IMO..the question then becomes whether or not Holt and ownership would be willing to take on the rest of Iguodala's contract..

I don't see anybody else that could be realistic in a deal for Jefferson, unless the Spurs want to take back multiple pieces, which makes things complicated..

As for Parker, I think a lot of people here are overvaluing him..when he's healthy, he's undoubtedly a top 5 player, but he means more to the Spurs than he would for another team..I don't see why a team would give up a good draft pick for him unless they're willing to win now, and teams that are looking to win now don't usually have a good draft pick to part with..

Looking at other teams, I don't see it..I can't really see a deal that could help both teams..

Deng might be another possible. If the bulls don't get a big FA (Bosh/Lebron/Wade) this summer, they might want to get out from Deng's contract...

[DesignatedT]

Deng would be legit.

[Blackjack]

Saying his trade value will never be higher is not the same as saying he can't get better as a basketball player.

This summer, he's a 28yr old, 3 time All-Star, Finals MVP on an expiring contract in an NBA with multiple teams with huge amounts of cap space and multiple top-level players poised to change teams.

It's also the last summer before the new CBA.

Next summer, he could only be moved in a S&T. In 2012 and 2013, he'll come with a long-term deal if he's still with the Spurs. Plus he'll be over 30.

So it's not unreasonable to say that Tony's trade value will never be higher than it will be in the summer of 2010.

Yoda to my Skywalker . . . :hat

[raspsa]

I keep reading that quite often on ST and don't get it...

Tony is soon 28 !!!! ONLY!

Don't be so pescimistic! Even if he loses a bit of speed, his PG skill and overall BB IQ are only going to get better!

Just look at Kidd at 35 or something, running 82 games like he was 20!!!

TP's game is based so much on his speed and quickness.. in a half-court game, he's not as effective.. with Jason Kidd at this point in his career and for the last several years, its the opposite.. plus Kidd has developed a prertty good 3-point shot.

[Thompson]

Yeah, I really doubt the Spurs are trading Parker for anyone not named Deron, Paul, or Rondo.

Bosh + (pg) for Parker + (filler)? They do speak French in Canada.

I don't think the Raptors would do it, but if they're losing Bosh anyway, maybe Bosh + (draft pick) for Parker + Splitter. Then we'd add Bosh and two good draft picks (pg and sf) to our current team (minus Parker).

[EricB]

No comment on the situation. But I will say that the Spurs organization is willing to run George at point guard as long as Manu is also on the team.


Wow....

[Fabbs]

I don't get why people say that Jefferson would be so hard to move. I think the Spurs could even trade me and get some very interesting pieces if I were on a 15 mil expiring contract.
Begining of the season it would be difficult to move Soft Dick for anyone meaningful. Midseason when teams are tanking and positioning for next year, you may well find a lottery bound team looking to move lower and help ensure this with some Soft Dick.

[ducks]

No comment on the situation. But I will say that the Spurs organization is willing to run George at point guard as long as Manu is also on the team.

I know you think george hill is better then tp
you posted when tp was hurt if george did well you would not be surpised to see tp traded.

if spurs are only thinking of trading tp if manu is here they MUST not really think hill is all that of a point guard. Therefore they would be looking for a point guard in return.

if spurs are in a win mode and not rebuild mode moving the starting point guard is not the smartest thing to do unless it is a huge upgrade. it takes a point guard a year playing with players to know where they want the ball. Plus there is a risk they may not work out like rj

[clubalien]

TP has 3

I don't think you are counting this years title.:lobt2:

[ducks]

tp value would b better next year if he stays healthy
he was not healthy this year

[Cry Havoc]

No comment on the situation. But I will say that the Spurs organization is willing to run George at point guard as long as Manu is also on the team.

How is that not commenting on the situation?

:bang :bang :bang

[rayray2k8]

I think Hill has the potiential to be better than Parker. Parker is a better scorer, but I think George is a more complete player. I do think a Parker trade is possible if the Spurs feel like it improves their chances to win. But here is the shake down, the spurs didn't make a trade at the deadline because every team wanted Hill and Pop wasn't willing to give him up. But if a package like Rudy Gay(sign and trade) +conley for TP was offered then that fits the bill. George runs point and Conley moves to back up. That won't happen however because the Nets really like Rudy Gay so I see him going to New Jersey this summer.

truth hurts huh duck?

[Mel_13]

I think Hill has the potiential to be better than Parker. Parker is a better scorer, but I think George is a more complete player. I do think a Parker trade is possible if the Spurs feel like it improves their chances to win. But here is the shake down, the spurs didn't make a trade at the deadline because every team wanted Hill and Pop wasn't willing to give him up. But if a package like Rudy Gay(sign and trade) +conley for TP was offered then that fits the bill. George runs point and Conley moves to back up. That won't happen however because the Nets really like Rudy Gay so I see him going to New Jersey this summer.

Nice bit of inside info.

[J_Paco]

I think Hill has the potiential to be better than Parker. Parker is a better scorer, but I think George is a more complete player.

I couldn't disagree with you more on that one. Parker is the better defender, rebounder and is a far better passer. At 20-years old, Parker was putting up better numbers than Hill is at 23. I love George Hill, believe me he's got a lot of upside, but can't say he's got more potential than a three-time all-star and Finals MVP. I want to see Hill carry the Spurs on his back offensively and lead the team to more than 54 victories before I'd ever agree.

[santymrc]

Saying his trade value will never be higher is not the same as saying he can't get better as a basketball player.

This summer, he's a 28yr old, 3 time All-Star, Finals MVP on an expiring contract in an NBA with multiple teams with huge amounts of cap space and multiple top-level players poised to change teams.

It's also the last summer before the new CBA.

Next summer, he could only be moved in a S&T. In 2012 and 2013, he'll come with a long-term deal if he's still with the Spurs. Plus he'll be over 30.

So it's not unreasonable to say that Tony's trade value will never be higher than it will be in the summer of 2010.

MVP MVP! xD

Nice info Phila.

[DJB]

It will be a sad day in Spurnation to see the Big Three not together.

I can't really see Manu or Tony playing against us in a game. Let TP retire here.

Fuck that. Trade him.

[DJB]

Deng would be legit.

When are you people going to stfu and realize that we need a legit center?

[J_Paco]

While you make a valid point, you also have to remember that Tony was given a much better chance to play than George has. Tony got to start on a championship team at 19 years old playing with a prime Tim Duncan. Tony started for two whole seasons. Who knows what George might have done had he been given a similar chance on a similar team. But if you look at Hill's numbers when Tony is out they are not standard second year guard numbers. Since George has been here I have seen him play defense and do more than hold his own against all star players in Kevin Durant, Kobe Byrant, Derrick Rose, and Steve Nash. Going back to the start of the season Brandon Jennings was averaging 25 points and Geprge held him to well below that. Last season in the playoffs George had not played too much the last couple months, Pop finally plays him and George
recks up against the Mavs.

I have a friend who is close to Pop, and I'm told Pop says George is his favorite player because he's the only one who still laughs at his jokes. But a source close to the team tells me that the thing that makes George different from other players is his will and determinatation to become great. George is a player who wants to be an all star and wants to lead the team. And he has shown the improvment a great deal.

I agree that George Hill has the potential to be a very good to near all-star caliber player (think: Jason Terry or Kirk Hinrich). Especially, on the defensive end when he truly learns to use his length to disrupt players and hopefully he also get physically stronger. But, I just don't think he'll ever develop the court vision and floor generalship to become an everyday starting PG. His defense continues to astound and improve, but he's gotten torched by a lot of guys also like Chauncey Billups, Russell Westbrook, Joe Johnson and Aaron Brooks. He's got to become more consistent on the defensive end and needs to study his match-up more (ala Bruce Bowen). He's definitely got a couple of All-Defensive Team nods in his future, though.

[exstatic]

I couldn't disagree with you more on that one. Parker is the better defender, rebounder and is a far better passer.

See, now you're just making shit up. George is a MUCH better rebounder, per minute, than Tony. TP's career average is 2.6 in 33 minutes. George grabs 2.4 in only 23 minutes. George is a VASTLY superior shooter. If Tony had been able to shoot off the P'n'R early in his career like George does, we fucking sweep LA in 2004. George is also a much more versatile defender than Tony. You'll never see Pop game plan to have Tony cover some 6'8" SF as his primary man. You also over rate Tony's passing. He can do simple dump offs on the P'n'R, and find the man in the corner, but struggles with any kind of improv passing.

[DJB]

see, now you're just making shit up. George is a much better rebounder, per minute, than tony. Tp's career average is 2.6 in 33 minutes. George grabs 2.4 in only 23 minutes. George is a vastly superior shooter. If tony had been able to shoot off the p'n'r early in his career like george does, we fucking sweep la in 2004. George is also a much more versatile defender than tony. You'll never see pop game plan to have tony cover some 6'8" sf as his primary man. You also over rate tony's passing. He can do simple dump offs on the p'n'r, and find the man in the corner, but struggles with any kind of improv passing.

+1

[J_Paco]

See, now you're just making shit up. George is a MUCH better rebounder, per minute, than Tony. TP's career average is 2.6 in 33 minutes. George grabs 2.4 in only 23 minutes. George is a VASTLY superior shooter. If Tony had been able to shoot off the P'n'R early in his career like George does, we fucking sweep LA in 2004. George is also a much more versatile defender than Tony. You'll never see Pop game plan to have Tony cover some 6'8" SF as his primary man. You also over rate Tony's passing. He can do simple dump offs on the P'n'R, and find the man in the corner, but struggles with any kind of improv passing.

Yeah, no shit George is a better shooter. Maybe that's why I didn't sight it as something Parker is better than him at. And, I didn't realize that per minute Hill was a better rebounder. Yes, Hill is a more versatile defender, but he's still very inconsistent with his effort. He'll defend Kobe, Durant and Allen well, but then let Billups, Brooks and Westbrook eat his damn lunch. Your last comment is total bullshit, since I'm sure I didn't imagine Paker finding Hill for a wide-open three off of a no-look pass in traffic Monday night. Parker doesn't have Nash, Kidd, Williams or Paul court-vision but he's definitely no slouch. He's an above-average passer at the NBA level, but Hill is way below him. But, people will never give him credit since he'll probably never average more than 7.5 assists per game.

[Kori Ellis]

....

What's funny is that someone I know close to the Spurs says that Pop, etc have actually been disappointed at George's D this year - that they thought it would be vastly improved, and it's not. And also that they don't think he'll be able to make the transition to PG full time. That they think games like the Clippers were just that - games against the Clippers, and that they want him back at the SG spot ASAP but they aren't disrupting the lineups right now til Tony gets healthy.

Another thing that keeps being said is that the reason Pop said that he was his favorite and praises him a lot isn't just because he likes Pop's jokes but also because he needs some coddling (somewhat similar to Hedo).

[exstatic]

Yeah, no shit George is a better shooter. Maybe that's why I didn't sight it as something Parker is better than him at. And, I didn't realize that per minute Hill was a better rebounder. Yes, Hill is a more versatile defender, but he's still very inconsistent with his effort. He'll defend Kobe, Durant and Allen well, but then let Billups, Brooks and Westbrook eat his damn lunch. Your last comment is total bullshit, since I'm sure I didn't imagine Paker finding Hill for a wide-open three off of a no-look pass in traffic Monday night. Parker doesn't have Nash, Kidd, Williams or Paul court-vision but he's definitely no slouch. He's an above-average passer at the NBA level, but Hill is way below him. But, people will never give him credit since he'll probably never average more than 7.5 assists per game.

It wasn't Hill, it was Mason, and the announcing team was shocked at the level of difficulty of the pass. People are only shocked at things that don't normally happen, and he normally doesn't make that level of pass. Every blind squirrel finds an acorn someday, I guess. His passing is average, his shooting is below average, but he's got the quicks, at least for now.

[J_Paco]

What's funny is that someone I know close to the Spurs says that Pop, etc have actually been disappointed at George's D this year - that they thought it would be vastly improved, and it's not. And also that they don't think he'll be able to make the transition to PG full time. That they think games like the Clippers were just that - games against the Clippers, and that they want him back at the SG spot ASAP but they aren't disrupting the lineups right now til Tony gets healthy.

Another thing that keeps being said is that the reason Pop said that he was his favorite and praises him a lot isn't just because he likes Pop's jokes but also because he needs some coddling (somewhat similar to Hedo).

I'm not entirely surprised that people in the front-office would make those observations, if a guy like me could see those thing by just watching 70+ games. He's got the talent to be an elite defender, but he still needs to put it altogether. Also, Parker ability to play through all that chiding and screaming early on as a player should remind people how unique he is/was. I doubt that even solid young men like Blair and Hill could've handled such harsh treatment.

[J_Paco]

It wasn't Hill, it was Mason, and the announcing team was shocked at the level of difficulty of the pass. People are only shocked at things that don't normally happen, and he normally doesn't make that level of pass. Every blind squirrel finds an acorn someday, I guess. His passing is average, his shooting is below average, but he's got the quicks, at least for now.

That pass was beautiful and I won't waste time trying to defend it. Parker proved last season that he can be a solid play-maker with the ball in his hands.

Hate all you want Ex, but those "quicks" have helped carry this team to three 'ships and countless victories. The guy obviously isn't an elite passer, but he's definitely better than average. And, if he's average what does that make Hill? Who can't even handle full-time PG duties for 20+ plus games without Manu sharing the responsibilities.

[manu the best]

we can also do the same thing to tony .. lets wait and see his production next season and if his playing like the tony of 2007 then we can sign him ..

[Blackjack]

I usually don't touch this subject with a 10-foot pole (I just never have one laying around), but I tend to side with ex (another great poster I failed to mention) and most of his Parker takes, at least as it pertains to his point guard-ness.

I avoid the subject because it always ends in a emotional argument that's neither productive nor worthy of the energy it takes to argue. But it's just a fact that Tony isn't an instinctual point.

Now, that's not a knock on his ability, talent or standing in the league. But I find it quite strange how people talk as if Tony's Jason Kidd in comparison to Hill; he's a learned passer, not an instinctual one, that's mastered this Spurs offense, in terms of where people will be in relation to his drives and the counters to each and every play. He knows if he goes to Point-A, he has these options. Should he run Play-X, he knows the action and counter to that play. It's a hell of an asset to have for a team, there's about 25 teams or so that should be so lucky, but it doesn't make him the quintessential point.

Kori's stated that Pop and the Spurs see Hill as a 2 ... I have absolutely no reason not believe her. But I'd be lying if I told you I didn't believe Hill could one day run the point in a Tony fashion. (Maybe he'll never be as good as Tony or that caliber of player, but I'm pretty confident he could do a pretty decent impression.) And if he's able to run the point adequately and keeps inching toward being the solid, impactful 2-way player ... then the Spurs should have one hell of a successor.

It's almost as if there's been a backlash to the excitement of Hill and his potential. He's a damn good player with a bright future ... I wish everyone could discuss a player (whether it's Hill, Manu or Tony) without feeling they've got to defend the other guy.

Trading Tony's an option, not something that needs to be a foregone conclusion. And trading him or exploring the options is not an indictment of his ability or character; it'd be a realization that it's their only hope of getting the requisite talent to lift them from where they are, or an effort to get something for him in the event the team has a rapid decline (whether it's due to injury or otherwise) before he hits free agency.

[Ice009]

What's funny is that someone I know close to the Spurs says that Pop, etc have actually been disappointed at George's D this year - that they thought it would be vastly improved, and it's not. And also that they don't think he'll be able to make the transition to PG full time. That they think games like the Clippers were just that - games against the Clippers, and that they want him back at the SG spot ASAP but they aren't disrupting the lineups right now til Tony gets healthy.

Another thing that keeps being said is that the reason Pop said that he was his favorite and praises him a lot isn't just because he likes Pop's jokes but also because he needs some coddling (somewhat similar to Hedo).

This is what I think too Kori. If you recall I have been ragging on George's defense a lot this season. I thought he would be a superior defender by now, but this season I have seen him get torched by some players that a full strength Tony Parker has shown in the past that he can a least contain and not let them go off. It could be also what Harlemheat said that George isn't used to starting and having to carry this much of an offensive load so because of that extra load his defense some nights has slipped a bit. What do you think?

Also, does George study a lot of players like Bruce Bowen did? In an interview the other day someone asked George if he is watching the other playoff teams and what goes on around the NBA and George said no. It sounded like George said he doesn't watch many NBA games at all. I thought he would so he can learn his opponents better, unless George was just saying he's not watching the playoff race?

I still like George starting for now at PG to not disrupt the flow. I think TP can be the most lethal weapon in the NBA if he can take on that role for now and George continues to play the way he has been starting at PG.

[FkLA]

Has Pop or the Spurs organization ever said they dont see Hill as a PG? Cause everything Ive heard is the complete opposite, they actually want to mold him into one despite him not playing that position in college. Parker fans need to stop with the whole he's not a PG thing, its silly really. He's been playing back-up point and has started when required for about 2 years now. He's a PG. Anyways Im glad people are coming around and realizing what we have in George Hill. It took this great run without Tony for alot of people to see it but its been pretty apparent even before that Hill is more than capable of being a starting PG on a championship team.

Bynum. Do it RC.

[Mel_13]

Trading Tony's an option, not something that needs to be a foregone conclusion. And trading him or exploring the options is not an indictment of his ability or character; it'd be a realization that it's their only hope of getting the requisite talent to lift them from where they are, or an effort to get something for him in the event the team has a rapid decline (whether it's due to injury or otherwise) before he hits free agency.

Logical and well written, this is.

[exstatic]

Trading Tony's an option, not something that needs to be a foregone conclusion. And trading him or exploring the options is not an indictment of his ability or character; it'd be a realization that it's their only hope of getting the requisite talent to lift them from where they are, or an effort to get something for him in the event the team has a rapid decline (whether it's due to injury or otherwise) before he hits free agency.

Well said.

BTW, I don't hate Parker. I DO, however, see his warts, and there are more than a few. I won't be disappointed to see him in SA next year, but I won't be upset if he's the piece that brings in quality new blood and/or picks.

[Cane]

All depends on Tiago but the Spurs seemed confident that he'll be coming over. Also depends on what will happen to RJ.

This is a hoopsworld article that basically was just an opinion piece with no real substance; but I do agree that Tony Parker could be moved if the trade is right. As a team you explore all sorts of options especially after the Pau Gasol and Antawn Jamison trades.

[Blackjack]

The added responsibility definitely effects how well George defends, but you've also gotta take into consideration their point guard depth with Tony out: non-existent (if he's in foul trouble ... they've got problems).

I've made the comparison to Prince when discussing Hill's defense in the past, and I think it's a pretty decent comparison: length, spacing and preparation being more responsible for their success than stop-and-go quickness. And when that's the case, you're bound to get burned and look bad from time to time if you don't have your head in the game or stay ahead of the play.

Frankly, George has looked better on more of the 2-guards this year because of his athletic prowess (as his quickness is on par or becomes an advantage, which makes life much easier in most cases).

George is spectacular at times and very average at others, but I've got faith he'll figure it out with his work-ethic and desire to be great.

[Blackjack]

Logical and well written, this is.

:lmao

Suits you well. :tu

[barbacoataco]

Just read through this thread. Good points all around. I'll make 2.

1. I would only trade Parker if you get back an elite level player at a position the Spurs need filled. Whether that trade exists, who knows?

2. I love Parker and have defended him many times. But I also think that at 28 years of age, considering how many NBA games he has played, he is really closer to 30-31 in "mileage." Since a lot of his game depends on his speed, if he loses a step it will make him much less effective.

[Pauleta14]

tp value would b better next year if he stays healthy
he was not healthy this year


+1

[Pauleta14]

I have a friend who is close to Pop, and I'm told Pop says George is his favorite player because he's the only one who still laughs at his jokes. But a source close to the team tells me that the thing that makes George different from other players is his will and determinatation to become great. George is a player who wants to be an all star and wants to lead the team. And he has shown the improvment a great deal.

:lol

It's exactly what Pop used to say about Tony...

[Pauleta14]

What's funny is that someone I know close to the Spurs says that Pop, etc have actually been disappointed at George's D this year - that they thought it would be vastly improved, and it's not. And also that they don't think he'll be able to make the transition to PG full time. That they think games like the Clippers were just that - games against the Clippers, and that they want him back at the SG spot ASAP but they aren't disrupting the lineups right now til Tony gets healthy.

Another thing that keeps being said is that the reason Pop said that he was his favorite and praises him a lot isn't just because he likes Pop's jokes but also because he needs some coddling (somewhat similar to Hedo).


Thanks to confirm, but it's so obvious...

Some people on ST and even in the league/media... think that George is REALLY Pop's favourite player! :wow
I thought Pop's sarcasm was well enough known... :lol

Goerge is a great steall/discover of the draft, has great physical abilities/potential, great spirit, great willing to learn/progress... BUT, he is doesn't seems to have the mental strengh/killing instinct requiered to become "special".
That doesn't he can't become one of the best all around/versatil player in the league or help a contender win the titke thks to his skills...
But he is no allstar, he is not a "killer", he needs to be well managed to give his best and wouldn't have succed as well with another type of coaching/franchise/core players...

[mountainballer]

So it's not unreasonable to say that Tony's trade value will never be higher than it will be in the summer of 2010.




Trading Tony's an option, not something that needs to be a foregone conclusion. And trading him or exploring the options is not an indictment of his ability or character; it'd be a realization that it's their only hope of getting the requisite talent to lift them from where they are, or an effort to get something for him in the event the team has a rapid decline (whether it's due to injury or otherwise) before he hits free agency.

point and point!

I tried to make a point in one of the Manu re signed threads that the big extension for Manu might very well force the Spurs to at least explore options of a Tony trade. not because they wanted to get rid of him and not because he wasn't any longer a good player for this team, just because of the limited options the FO has this summer.
if a trade of Tony for (for example) two quality role player makes the team better overall, you have to think about it. (and if it also brings some cap relieve, Holt will love to at least think about it even more).

fact is, Tony IS the only trade asset that allows the Spurs to get into somehow interested discussions with another team.
(just for the sake of discussion:)
what if the Blazers once more try to get a star PG and offer a package like Batum+Fernandez+Przybilla for Tony?
do we bite? this comes even with some cap relieve (including taxes about 5 million).
did we bite on either Batum or Fernandez + Przybilla + pick?
maybe Spurs still don't pull the trigger, but this would all be scenarios they at least need to consider, especially because either Fernandez and Batum are on cheap contracts till 2012.
(Hill-Fernandez-Batum-Blair-Splitter would be a young line up I would piss my pants to see them in a Spurs uniform)

[Pauleta14]

i'm not entirely surprised that people in the front-office would make those observations, if a guy like me could see those thing by just watching 70+ games. He's got the talent to be an elite defender, but he still needs to put it altogether. Also, parker ability to play through all that chiding and screaming early on as a player should remind people how unique he is/was. I doubt that even solid young men like blair and hill could've handled such harsh treatment.


+100000

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not against exploring trades for Parker at all, I just don't see any realistic deals that could benefit both teams..

Some mentioned Bynum in multiple threads..Buss loves Bynum..why would they trade a really young C for a PG with a lot of mileage that doesn't even fit in their system?..Bynum is the only piece they have for the future, the rest of their players are relatively old..

I know mountainballer was just using his trade idea as a random example, but I don't know why Portland would trade Batum, a guy they're extremely high on..

[Baseline]

A ton depends on what happens in the first round of the playoffs. If we lose, trades will definitely happen.

Trading RJ is preferable, obviously, but if he's untradable (which is likely), then we have to, and will, look to trade Parker. We can get a good-to-very good package for TP this summer.

I think we need to get a decent point in return, preferably a guy who can shoot. But to me, we would have to get a good big as well.

I think Portland is a potential suitor, as well as the Knicks and Lakers, and maybe the Hawks.

[santymrc]

Well, blackjack said it better.
But, about the harsh treatment, TP costed us lot of games back then, his "I win it all by myself TO's" made Pop mad... But whatever.
I don't want to see TP traded. I think GH can become a great player, an elite one -I dont believe all that "he can't be an allstar", I believe he can. But I'd rather have them both.
If he gets traded -TP- then I hope we get the pieces needed to compete.
Bottom line, if TP doesn't get too slow early in his career, I don't see the Spurs trading him, or I hope they dont. But it's a big IF.

[Duncan2177]

Pop wants Hill as his SG of the future, actually.

So if they traded Tony, they'd want another PG.

Hill is to small to be a SG.

[Muser]

Hill is to small to be a SG.

No he's not.


As for Parker I agree with Harlem, if he is traded it would have to be for a damn good package and there just isn't one I could think of.

[The Truth #6]

I don't think the FO knows what they want to do, and not just because of conflicting inside info.

It looks like Pop made the decision to keep Hill in the starting lineup for this playoff run. Parker is probably healthier than Hill at this point but at the moment he's still coming off the bench.

I think it's still a work in progress as far as what they want to do. However, Phila's comment about Hill as a PG alongside Manu seems to make sense considering how the lineup has been recently.

[Blue-Lightning]

If we keep Parker and the Ginobili/Hill combo can continue to produce at the level we've seen at the end of this season, then I think Parker will definitely need to swap bench duties with Ginobili. Parker as a sixth man would actually make a lot of sense for next season since he would keep scoring up for the second team, burning backup PGs with ease.

That would seem to me to be the smartest thing since Ginobili is obviously necessary in order to get Jefferson (his contract's not going anywhere), Hill, and others most involved. For next season there's really two gaping needs which exist this season as well: 1) a strong defensive presence at PF/C to help Tim Duncan, and 2) a lock-down perimeter defender. Those two issues need to be addressed; if trading Parker resolves the first or both issues, I'm all for it even though I'll greatly miss having Parker on our team. The reason is that Parker mostly adds scoring to the team... and in the time he's been out, we've seen that scoring is not an issue for this team.

Plug the holes for next year: defensive big (preferably who can spread the other D), defensive guard. Defensive Big is much more important. Duncan, Ginobili, Hill, and (unfortunately) Jefferson aren't going anywhere. Parker... only if we can plug the holes should he go.

BL

[Blackjack]

So the blue ...

sarcasm or shtick?

[ForeignFan]

Reading some comments (eg Blue L's) I cannot not think that less than two months without Parker is too short a period to assert that Hill / Manu combo is the best solution for the PO or for the future... I'd put Manu and TP together most of the time as soon as Parker confirms he is healthy, barring some particular matchups where Hill's'length in defense might prove more appropriate