View Full Version : Gymnastics Official Nixes Second-Gold Idea

08-24-2004, 06:10 AM
Gymnastics Official Nixes Second-Gold Idea

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - While the U.S. Olympic Committee and South Koreans tried to work out a deal in a dispute over Paul Hamm's gold medal, the head of gymnastics' ruling body all but said they were wasting their time. Bruno Grandi, president of the International Gymnastics Federation, told The Associated Press on Monday night that rules prevent him from asking for another gold medal to make up for the scoring error that cost Yang Tae-young the all-around title.

``I don't have the possibility to change it,'' Grandi told the AP. ``Our rules don't allow it.''

Hamm won the gold Wednesday after judges incorrectly scored Yang's parallel bars routine, failing to give him enough points for the level of difficulty. Yang ended up with the bronze while Hamm became the first American man to win the event.

USOC officials met with members of the South Korean Olympic Committee on Sunday and Monday, and were trying to find an ``equitable solution,'' said Darryl Seibel, a spokesman for the USOC.

``We have indicated to them that we would be willing to consider the notion of a second gold medal being awarded,'' Seibel told the AP. ``It's up to the Korean Olympic Committee to determine how it wants to proceed. There's a willingness to at least consider this idea.''

Jae Soon-yoo, an official for the South Korean delegation, was in a meeting Monday and didn't immediately comment.

But all the negotiations might be for naught. Even if the USOC and South Koreans reach an agreement, FIG would have to ask the International Olympic Committee to award a second gold medal.

And that would require FIG to rewrite its rulebook.

Under the rules, protests have to be filed immediately, and the South Koreans waited until after the meet to lodge their complaint. FIG rules also prevent scores from being changed once the meet is over.

``If the athlete does not agree to give up his medal, I don't know what we can do,'' IOC member Alex Gilady said.

And Grandi seemed to indicate that's just what he would like.

``For me, the best situation would be for Paul Hamm to take this medal and give ...'' Grandi told the AP, pretending to remove a medal from around his neck and leaving the sentence unfinished.

Still, the federation made an exception at least once before. When Irina Karavaeva learned that a judging error had wrongly given her the title at the 2001 trampoline world championships, she asked that it be given to the rightful winner, Anna Dogonadze. Grandi gave his OK, and the results were officially changed.

At issue here is the tenth of a point deducted from Yang's start value in the fifth of six events in the all-around. He received a 9.9 for a routine that had been given a 10 start value in team preliminaries and finals.

He finished third, 0.049 points behind Hamm, who came back from 12th with two events left for the victory. With the extra 0.100, Yang would have finished first and Hamm second, and Kim Dae-eun of South Korea would have won the bronze instead of silver.

The federation admitted the error and suspended the two judges who determined the start values - Benjamin Bango of Spain and Oscar Buitrago Reyes of Colombia - along with the judge who oversaw the panel, George Beckstead of the United States. But nothing more can be done, it insists.

``I have no other possibilities,'' Grandi told the AP.

South Korea promised to take its case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, although it had not filed its appeal as of Monday night. CAS indicated it wouldn't take the case because it involved a ``field of play'' decision, so the South Koreans approached the USOC about finding a diplomatic solution.

``All of this, it opens a whole Pandora's box of future challenges that aren't within the rules,'' said Peter Vidmar, the silver medalist in the 1984 Olympics. ``What's the statute of limitations for grievances in sport now? There have to be rules.''

Former U.S. coach Peter Kormann agreed.

``You don't get Olympic gold medals in a gumball machine,'' Kormann said in a telephone interview from New York. ``If you go back and change that because of a start score mistake, that changes the whole thing. That tarnishes everyone.''

The case has brought back memories of the figure skating scandal at the Salt Lake City Games in 2002, when Canadians Jamie Sale and David Pelletier were given duplicate gold medals after a French judge said she had been ``pressured'' to put a Russian couple ahead of them.

But there are no such signs of impropriety in this case, only human error.

``After this competition is over, FIG needs to do a review of its policies for on-the-field review,'' USA Gymnastics president Bob Colarossi said. ``I think we'll have some new guidelines and procedures to work under. Or, at least, some revised ones.''

Asked about the furor Sunday night, Hamm said he understood why the South Koreans were upset, but he didn't think a second gold medal was warranted.

``The people I'm a little bit upset with is FIG because this matter should have never even come up,'' Hamm said. ``The rules can't be changed after the competition is over.''

Hamm admitted the controversy has been a distraction, and he failed to medal on the floor, pommel horse or parallel bars. He was also competing Monday night in the high bar finals, which was sure to include added drama because Yang also qualified.

``It's a mess,'' Vidmar said. ``The Olympic Games is a celebration of sport and every athlete should have a chance to celebrate their efforts. It makes it more difficult for Paul to celebrate. It certainly makes it more difficult for the Koreans to celebrate. There's no closure to it.''

08-24-2004, 06:28 AM
That little gymnast should give the gold to the Korean.

Stop being a little biotch, you didn't win.

08-24-2004, 10:41 AM
The Korean got screwed by his coaches and managers...not Hamm...they have rules and allowable time frames to protest...they fucked up...end of story.

08-24-2004, 11:38 AM
You guys have not heard the real story. If the Korean had started out with a 10, he would have had .2 pts deducted for holding onto the bar with 2 hands for a 4th time going around the bar, because with that 10 starting point, you are only allowed 3 times around with 2 hands. The US reviewed the tape and determined that had the Korean started out with the 10, he would have had the .2 deducted and the Korean would have gotten 4th place, so the little fucker better STFU and keep his medal. Hamm deserved it...nuff said.

08-24-2004, 11:39 AM
Didn't the same thing happen to those Canadian figure skaters?


08-24-2004, 12:08 PM
Hamm should be under no moral obligation to give up his medal, especially after so many in the Media have self-indulgently "suggested" it. If he does it now, it would only be because he was pressured to. If I'm him, I'm less likely to give it up now that it's become so ridiculously overblown.

This isn't about Hamm. It's about the judges and the Koreans.

08-24-2004, 12:36 PM
TLC, totally different situation...In the incident you are referring to, the Russians pressured the French judge into voting for the Russian Ice Dance team...the French judge has admitted it...and there was some type of arrangement between the Russian and the French judges to trade high grades in various events...

This deal here is just a plain screwup and Jim is right, they showed a 2/10's of a deduction on the Korean's program that wasn't included in his final score.

The screwups in the Koreans program happened well before anyone knew Hamm was going to make that amazing comeback.

So basically...it's sour grapes.

Then again...the Russians are claiming it was fixed and I guess if anyone would be an expert on fixed judges it would be the Russians...er and the french of course.

It's funny how the Russians are questioning the judges when they historically have had by far the most success in judged events, of any country in Olympic history.

08-24-2004, 02:57 PM
they did not file the protest in time because they were told to wait before filing the protest

08-24-2004, 03:01 PM
The US reviewed the tape and determined that had the Korean started out with the 10, he would have had the .2 deducted

That's up for debate.

But the fact he should have started out with a 10 isn't debatable.

The Korean got screwed.

T Park Num 9
08-24-2004, 03:05 PM
he did four holds.

According to the commentator he shouldve been knocked off 2 tenths and there is no debate.

Screw you Korea, dont like it, bust your ass harder.


Why should he give it up just because the judges MAY have fucked up? Why is it HIS obligation??!??!??!?

Screw em. He got it, he won it, he done it.

Dont give it up Hamm, **** the haters.

08-24-2004, 03:11 PM

Tpark defined the term

T Park Num 9
08-24-2004, 04:19 PM
Well Ice, I know you would like EVERYONE to get a gold.

Yes, lets give EVERYONE a gold, because, ya know, your gonna hurt the jamaican's feelings if he doesnt get one.

Its sports. Theres a winner, theres a loser.

They missed deductions on the South Koreans that wouldve evened it up.


when the ref blows a call in the NBA Finals, and it was on a deciding shot in a game 7 that wouldve swung the Ring either way?

Do the say, Pistons give the Ring to the Timberwolves because the T Wolves got screwed on the shot??

No. Its sports. Teams and players get screwed sometimes, and you know what, thats also called life.
Life sucks, sometimes it fucks you over, and if bitch about not getting your way, your doing yourself any favors.

Take the silver. Smile, bust your ass, win gold in Bejing.

Simple as that.

08-24-2004, 05:04 PM
The honorable thing to do would be to give the Gold Medal to the Korean and be remembered for your honor.

Or you can be selfish and be remembered with a big fat asterisk by your name.

Be an hombre and own up to it.

08-24-2004, 05:15 PM
Ok so....If we are all of a sudden going to start playing by the rules...

The Pistons need to give us the O'Brien Trophy from this season because of .04

The Russians need to give up their gold medals from 92 in SLC(when their country cheated to get them the golds)

The Russians need to give our basketball team the gold medals from the 72 Olympics.

The Twins need to give the Braves the trophy from the 91 World Series when Herbk shoved Gant off of first base.

The Stars need to give the Stanley Cup to the Sabres from when Hull's skate was clearly in the crease.

Argentina needs to give the 1986 World Cup to the British because Maradonna scored a goal with his hand.

There's a long line of people who need to start giving up their trophys before Hamm...

And frankly the way Americans have deserted this guy and our basketball team is disgusting.

It's be one thing if we cheated...but we didn't.

And who is to say that if the judges had given the Korean a higher score that Hamm wouldn't have scored even higher on his routines?

It'd be nice if the Silver medalist were offering his medal to Hamm...but no, no one says anything about that...everyone is just ripping a guy who did absolutely nothing wrong, and nothing that every athlete and sports team in the world doesn't do in the same situation.

Bad officiating is part of sports...Getting fucked by the officials is part of sports. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be an athlete.

What makes this any different than any other sporting event?

When in the **** has anyone ever given up their medal or championship trophy willingly?

Hamm needs to tell everyone to go **** themselves. There is clearly a double standard being applied to him that has never been applied to anyone else in sports before.

Besides...people started saying he should give up the medal before he even had a chance to do it himself...how is it good sportsmanship if he does it just because a bunch of people, who haven't spent their whole lives pursuing that medal, think he should do it.

08-24-2004, 05:26 PM
I'd just like someone to tell me why this is any different than any other blown call in the history of sports...

08-24-2004, 05:28 PM
The very definition of "honorable" is doing something extraordinary, above and beyond what a typical person would do. It seems to me that Hamm is being criticised for not doing what most people probably wouldn't do either. Everybody wants to see a heroic display of benevolence, and if they don't get it, they get all pissy about it.

The honorable thing to do when you pass a homeless person is to give them any cash you have on hand, or buy them a meal, but if you're like most people, you usually don't. Are you judged for that?

This is for the IOC, the judges and the Koreans to deal with amongst themselves. It's stupid to bring the winner into it unless he chooses to get involved on his own.

Act like fucking Gold Medals grow on trees. He's worked most of his life for that medal. Who are any of us to say he should be extraordinarily generous and give it away? It won't change the score. Yeah, it'd make him look like an even better person, but as far as I'm concerned, that's his fucking business.

08-24-2004, 05:39 PM
I, uh....... actually agree with Whottt. :shock :vomit

It wasn't as though Hamm received points he wasn't supposed to get. It was the Korean that got screwed by the judges, not Hamm being elevated by them. If the athletes were to decide this events then the athletes should judge every event. I don't think they can give out any more golds or change the rulings now. If something were to have been done about it, it should have been done immediately.

I would be upset too though if I was the Korean. He should be angry and at least protest on the principal of it.

Useruser666 :eyebrow

08-24-2004, 05:40 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how this is any different from any other blown call...

I'm waiting for someone to explain why they are giving a free pass to the officials not giving the Korean the mandatory 2/10ths deduction on his routine...

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain how even if he had been given the correct value of his routine...how does that prove he still would have gone on to win the gold medal? Can you say he would have performed exactly the same way with a higher score?

Can you say he wouldn't have relaxed more thinking he already had it locked up?

Who is to say he wouldn't have choked? He choked last night on the high bar.

That score was given well before the competition was over.

That Gymnast had time to go out and be the best gymnast on the floor even after that event...

I'll tell you right now...no one expected Hamm to perform like he did in the last two events...those Koreans thought they had it locked up and there was no way Hamm was going to come back....even after that lomarked routine.

You guys wants to change the score after the trophy has been handed out....

That is the ultimate in badsportsmanship. It's be one thing if Hamm cheated..but he didn't.

You don't go back and change the score from the middle of the competition after it is over, so a guy can get a medal.

That's being a poor sport...that's being a sore loser...that's being a whining bitch.

08-24-2004, 05:48 PM
Whottt you are 100% correct sir.

Jim Rome has been ragging on Hamm all day telling him he does not deserve it and he should give up the gold. I have not heard anything about the Silver medalist giving his Silver to the guy and taking his Bronze in it's place, and it is his own countryman.

08-24-2004, 05:57 PM
Is this going to cost him endorsement deals?

It's bad enough his voice still sounds like he's twelve.

08-24-2004, 05:58 PM
And who is to say that if the judges had given the Korean a higher score that Hamm wouldn't have scored even higher on his routines?

Who is to say he would've scored even higher on his routines?

I think the reason they are pissed is that judges and referees are there to see that the athletes have the opportunity to perform at their highest peak without breaking of the rules, and the Korean didn't have the opportunity.

T Park Num 9
08-24-2004, 07:01 PM
No dunce, there pissed cause they lost.

Id be pissed too, and wed prob be calling foul


Thats officiating.


youre 100% right on the money.

Just curious, where is the 4th place guy protesting the Korean who SHOULDVE finished 4th because of HIS deductions?


Joe Chalupa
08-24-2004, 07:13 PM
I don't know what he should do.
But who am I to judge?

08-24-2004, 11:12 PM
Everyone that competed this year should get a "thanks for not being a pussy, and coming to Athens" gold medal. Then everyone has something.