Jax and Mike Brown get into it during game 6

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As the Bucket turns...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, listening to this interview on TNT, sounds like he's got issues with several of his teammates.

July 2005: time for a Buckets for Bones trade.

[HB22inSA]

Damn, what happened to my boy SJax after he left the Spurs?

Pop would never have let any of this happen.

[T Park]

showing Stephen Jackson having a post game rant.




It almost sounds like the organization is souring on Stephen Jackson.


If so.

Go ahead and trade him on over to us Indiana. Ill give you Brent Barry and the rights to Scola.

Hell Barry Scola and Javtokas.


Go ahead Indiana, do that, sour on a freakin stud like Jackson.

[T Park]

July 2005: time for a Buckets for Bones trade


YES!!!!

I JUST MADE A THREAD ON THIS!!!



DO IT SPURS!!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[picnroll]

Jack should have never left the Spurs. Something about the Pacers is not right. They are too angry a team, it's endemic. It's shows in all the confrontations they get into. Not a good enviroment for Jack who already carries a chip on his shoulder.

[Obstructed_View]

Jack was hard enough to control when he was here. I'd rather have Robinson, who is probably going to come cheaper than Jack. I may be wrong about that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Look at their heir apparent as far as team leader: Jermaine O'Neal. Getting involved in brawls, going on tyrades about Stern holding the black man down, etc. He doesn't have the maturity to lead a team.

I wish we could get him back somehow, if he keeps going down this path he's on he's going to end up another Artest.

[HB22inSA]

I thought Jackson behaved pretty well here.

And especially with Pop ruling the fort, he knows he won't get playing time if he acts up.

[slayermin]

It's the difference between playing with Jermaine O'Neal and Tim Duncan.

SJax is an emotional player. He probably hates himself for turning down the deal RC and Pop offered him. I feel bad that he isn't a Spur.

[T Park]

He doesnt hate it cause hes makin 5 or 6 million a year.


Bones, Scola and Javtokas, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Scola and Javtokas

Are you crazy? Scola = Horry replacement. Robertas = Devin replacement (Devin's replacing Bowen).

[T Park]

Javtokas is a center, why would he replace Devin???


Ok, Im down with keeping them.


But just Brent Barry aint gonna get it done. Wouldnt you need someone else to make the salaries match??

Isnt barry making like 4 and Jackson makes 7

[Kori Ellis]

Robertas = Devin replacement (Devin's replacing Bowen).

:wtf

Robertas Javtokas is a center.

[T Park]

I think hes thinking of Sanikidze.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I meant replacing the energy off the bench.

Next year Barry makes 4.95 million, Jax makes 5.3 million.

Send Indy some draft picks, howabout the rights to Sanikidze too (he'd be expendable with Buckets in the fold).

[T Park]

Id trade Barry and Sanikidze for Jackson in a new york minute.

[scott]

We should Indy an Arby's #2 combo with Curly Fries and tell them to keep Jax. He burned his bridges and now is showing he is really nothing more than a 2-bit cry baby thug.

[texasqb2]

I know you guys will disagree, but I'd rather have Barry than Jax. Jax makes stupid decisions in key points of the game and is a major headcase. Barry is a great team player and will play a key part, trust me. Just think, if Barry doesnt play another minute til the finals, he would be doing us much better up until that point than Jax was doing for us when we won the title. Give him a chance.....

[xcoriate]

:sleep

Stephen Jackson is over rated so much here..

Hit a couple of shots and hasn't done shit since.

Guys a headcase, thats all.

Has the intelligence of three T Parks

Get the fuck over it.

His gone and will never be back.

Why are you all so eager to trade young talent? Give them the chance Stephen Jackson had and has messed up with both us and Indy.

[gospursgojas]

I know you guys will disagree, but I'd rather have Barry than Jax. Jax makes stupid decisions in key points of the game and is a major headcase. Barry is a great team player and will play a key part, trust me. Just think, if Barry doesnt play another minute til the finals, he would be doing us much better up until that point than Jax was doing for us when we won the title. Give him a chance.....

SJax was one of our greatest clutch players during the 2003 season....

[Mr. Body]

The guy scored what, like 12.0 points a game that year? He was good, but not great. Also, don't forget he shot and turned-over his way out of games just as often. But give it to him, he was a cold-blooded shooter sometimes. He'll always be something of a minor legend with Spurs fans and left before he could turn into Jaren Jackson.

[xcoriate]

Dude has nothing left, what game of importance has he won since 03 ??

His not the next coming he is a role player who is not afraid to take a lot of shots...

Robert Horry is much more "clutch"

[pooh]

Link (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050506/SPORTS04/505060538)

Here is some more information about what Jackson was so pissed off about after Game Six.

Jackson says teammates blame him for Game 6 loss

By Jeff Rabjohns
[email protected]


Stephen Jackson lashed out after the Pacers' overtime loss Thursday, saying someone on the team blamed him for the 92-89 defeat.

"It's my fault they said. We lost, and it's my fault. It's my fault. That's the word," Jackson said.

Reached after leaving Conseco Fieldhouse, Jackson was asked if he got into it with Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal during the game.

"We talked. We didn't argue," Jackson said.

But in two separate exchanges with the media after the Game 6 loss that tied the first-round series at three games apiece, Jackson said he was singled out. Jackson declined to name the source of the blame, saying only that it was "more than one" person associated with the team.

"It's not my place to say who said what, but they know what they said," Jackson said. "I'll take the blame for it. If you all feel it's my fault, then you all should agree with them. I don't agree, but hey, that's basketball."

Veteran forward Dale Davis said he didn't make the comments to Jackson, but he heard them.

"There were some words said, but that's neither here nor there," Davis said.

Davis later added, "Our main purpose is to go out there and play together and win. Stephen has to accept the fact of his role and the position that he's in. The most important thing is just focusing on basketball."

In Thursday's loss, Jackson was 5-for-15 from the field, including 1-for-6 from the 3-point line, for 14 points. He also had five rebounds, two assists and four turnovers in 47 minutes. He took more shots than anyone except O'Neal (6-for-19), even though the Pacers didn't run many plays specifically for him.

Jackson said he'll be able to put the incident behind him for Saturday's series-deciding game in Boston.

"If I don't put it behind me, then everything people's been saying about me is going to be true," he said. "You know everything they say, 'I shouldn't be here. . . . I'm a nut. I don't know how to play. My emotions hurt the team."

The comments could be another distraction in a season that has been marred by suspensions and injuries.

"I am taking this personal because I feel if you all come out and watch me play, I come out and give 110 percent every night," Jackson said. "Whether some times I get technical fouls, I'm human. But I go out and give 100 percent.

"I'm for my team. I got fined $2 million (lost salary from his 30-game suspension) because I went to war for my team. I will always be there. More than me taking it personally, it hurt because I do everything I can. I felt disrespected by hearing that.

"I am hurt because I will do anything for anybody on this team or in this organization."

Jackson, in his first year with the Pacers and fifth in the NBA, is the only player on the team with a championship ring, that coming in 2003 with San Antonio.

He said he doesn't care if the issue gets settled.

"I'm cool with it. I have to come to work, play basketball and help win games and take care of my family. That's all I have to do," he said. "Resolving this is not important to me."

"I don't really know at what point what really ticked everyone off," Davis said.

[BronxCowboy]

You guys that think we should be shipping players out to get Jack back should remember that he probably lost as many games for us as he won. So he's not afraid to take shots at the end of the game? If he hit's them, that's the least he could do to make up for all the stupid shots he jacked up and missed before that. "Clutchness" is overrated, and I'm not sure that Stephen Jackson even qualifies for that. I seem to remember him missing a lot of shots at the end of games as well. It just happens that the ones he was lucky enough to hit were late in the season/during the playoffs. The ONLY the thing that he brought to the Spurs that they actually miss was his length/athleticism on D.

It's incredible to me how some of you who are so in love with Jackson have accused me of living in the past and remembering Malik through "Rose" colored glasses.

[Taco]

Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic....

[boutons]

The comment I remember about SJax was "he keeps both teams in the game".

I also remember Manu's take on his role in he 02/03was along the lines of "it's not who starts the games, but who finishes" ie, Manu was finishing.

Out of all the SGs in the NBA, the Spurs's fans notalgia for SJax, a low BB-IQ player who hits 3's at rate so low that it keeps him out of the NBA Season Top50 3G %age, is quite amazing.

SJax continues to be a low IQ player @IND, as the current controversy seems to highlight.

But he has managed to break into the NBA Playoffs Top50 3G %age ... at 37th!!, hitting only 9 3G's in 6 games, as one of the Pacers' top offensive options. SJax simply just ain't that good to merit the adulation and drooling.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The guy scored what, like 12.0 points a game that year?

Yeah, and we all know that you have to score 40 a game to be a difference maker. Tell that to Robert Horry with 5 rings, Steve Kerr with 6, Sean Elliott, etc.

Stupid.


Dude has nothing left, what game of importance has he won since 03 ??

His not the next coming he is a role player who is not afraid to take a lot of shots...

Robert Horry is much more "clutch"

What game of importance has he played since '03?

Great, we can have Robert Horry stick around til' he's 45 to play fucking small forward after Bowen retires.


"Clutchness" is overrated

Clutchness is a significant factor in every sports title won in every sport across the entire world since the existence of sports.

So, I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

Also if you're been a Spurs fan for the last 6 years, watching them CHOKE in the playoffs, I think you'd have enough brains to realize that clutchness, in our offense, is an extremely good thing.

If y'all don't like Buckets that's fine, but at least bring a legit take. Clutchness is overrated? :lol

[foodie2]

In Thursday's loss, Jackson was 5-for-15 from the field, including 1-for-6 from the 3-point line, for 14 points. He also had five rebounds, two assists and four turnovers in 47 minutes. He took more shots than anyone except O'Neal (6-for-19), even though the Pacers didn't run many plays specifically for him.

To me, this is Stephen Jackson in a nutshell. Plus, he's a serious headcase. Just because Pop managed to keep him in line while he was here the first time, doesn't mean that things would go that way again. I think he is a time bomb, and we are well rid of him.

[Useruser666]

I think Jackson is too expensive under his current contract. He did do some good things when he was here, but something has changed within him. I think his stay with Atlanta has poisoned him and his mind. All of the things that were bad traits here have been magnified since he left. Even if he could be a good contributer, I think there is too much risk in bringing such an unstable ego/mentality to the Spurs. His greatest assest is also his greatest weakness.

[Jimcs50]

I am glad we got rid of him...he is not Spurs' material.

[ducks]

I would take him if big dog does not work out

[SpursChampsIII]

Are you crazy? Scola = Horry replacement. Robertas = Devin replacement (Devin's replacing Bowen).

No and No!

[ChumpDumper]

The Pacers suck even worse than I thought. Jack's a bit overpriced, but you know he's got to be thinking this kind of shit never happened and would never happen in San Antonio.

[Spurminator]

Clutchness wouldn't be overrated if it actually existed... But aside from a select few players in the history of this league, most of the players we think are "clutch" are simply the ones who have taken the most shots towards the end of games. Ben Gordon, for instance, shoots an incredible amount of shots in the 4th quarter.

Even players that practically define "clutchness" might have overrated reputations. Let's take Michael Jordan, for instance... How often was there a "last shot" opportunity where the ball was not in Jordan's hands? Hardly ever. So Jordan took many "last shots," and if he maintained his shooting percentage from the rest of the game, each of those shots had a 40-50% chance of falling. So based on sheer numbers, Jordan was bound to make a lot of "clutch" shots.

The GREAT players are typically seen as the CLUTCH players, if they are able to maintain their greatness in the 4th quarter or in big games. Some "great" players choke in the 4th, but I don't think we should tag players as "clutch" just for remaining consistent.

If someone can show me statistical proof that Stephen Jackson, on average, stepped up his game in 4th quarters for the Spurs, then I'm comfortable calling him a "clutch player" rather than a good player who had a couple of "clutch games" in the Playoffs. Otherwise, I would agree that "clutchness" - and Stephen Jackson - are overrated.

[Dingle Barry]

I'm going to have to disagree with Spurminator. Being clutch in the playoffs--when it matters most--is what really counts. Who cares if Stephen Jackson made 10% of his three pointers, if 10 out of 100 came when it was all on the line, that is clutch.

Even insinuating that Jordan wasn't clutch is pretty insane in my book. I understand your logic but I disagree with it.

[picnroll]

I'm afraid that Jack has completely gone over to the dark side. If he was at all salvagable it would have to be by being surrounded by grownups like the Spurs. Two years with the Pacers and O'Neal and Artest and he's beyond salvation.


"I'm for my team. I got fined $2 million (lost salary from his 30-game suspension) because I went to war for my team. I will always be there. More than me taking it personally, it hurt because I do everything I can. I felt disrespected by hearing that.


This shows how badly he just doesn't get it. After all the fines, suspensions, criticism, still thinks he was still riding with his homies into the stands and he's proud of it.

At this point I think Artest has his head screwed on straighter than Jack. Artest has impulse contol problems. Jack seems to be in a perpetual state of anger.

[Useruser666]

I'm going to have to disagree with Spurminator. Being clutch in the playoffs--when it matters most--is what really counts. Who cares if Stephen Jackson made 10% of his three pointers, if 10 out of 100 came when it was all on the line, that is clutch.

Even insinuating that Jordan wasn't clutch is pretty insane in my book. I understand your logic but I disagree with it.

If a player hits his shots early in the game, there is no need to be clutch.

[exstatic]

If a player hits his shots early in the game, there is no need to be clutch.

This, and the "he keeps both teams in the game" comments are the best descriptors of Jack.

I also think one major point has been overlooked. When Jack was last here, he was hungry, and not making much. I think that helped keep his head on straight. He's got that fat ass contract now. Why should he even listen? I see no evidence that he would, based on his behavior in Indy, and his comments. He's still monumentally immature.

All of that being said, Barry is such a total bust, that I'd trade his "high b-ball IQ" ass for Jack in a minute. I don't think Jack is a savior, but at least he not a busta.

[ducks]

the more I think about it
I do not want him back at all

[picnroll]

Oner way or the other Pacers are going to have to trade at least one of Jack, Artest or O'Neal. They can't keep all three of those knuckleheads together.

[BronxCowboy]

One final note on "clutchness" for TPark and all the other people who hold such sports superstitions . . . The only way a player can magically become better at the end of the game is if he wasn't playing up to the best of his ability prior to that. Period. So much for clutchness.

[2centsworth]

One final note on "clutchness" for TPark and all the other people who hold such sports superstitions . . . The only way apply can magically become better at the end of the game is if he wasn't playing up to the best of his ability prior to that. Period. So much for clutchness.If there's no such thing as clutch, and then there can be no such thing as a choke. Every great player in the world and coach disagrees with you. Clutchiness does exist and I wish Steve Smith, Terry Porter, and Danny Ferry would of had more of it against the lakers.


Now as far as Stephen Jackson, the guy is a headcase and I always thought the spurs ran the danger of the guy becomine a cancer on the team. Don't you remember when he was taken out of games how he would not sit with the rest of the team, but on the baseline by himself. I remember when Tim Duncan tried to put his arms around Sjax in a team huddle and Sjax turned away a couple of times telling TD to take his hands off of him.

Neverthelss, Sjax was major clutch in every close out game except the lakers.
Spurs don't win without Sjax IMO, but the spurs don't need him anymore.

[BigVee]

So, Gilbert Arenas was clutch v. the Bulls the other night? Of course the fact that he missed a hundred shots during the game that let the Bulls back into it means what?

[2centsworth]

So, Gilbert Arenas was clutch v. the Bulls the other night? Of course the fact that he missed a hundred shots during the game that let the Bulls back into it means what?
going 2-17 in a game and then hitting the last shot to win is not clutch, but redemption.

nailing every open three when the team needs a basket is clutch, missing them is choking!

[BronxCowboy]

If there's no such thing as clutch, and then there can be no such thing as a choke.

Nobody can suddenly increase their skill level in crucial situations, what people call "clutchness." If you have a skill, you have it, and you hope that you can keep it, because you certainly can lose focus and start playing below your capability. That's a choke, and it's very real. My contention is that good players are good regardless of the game situation. If you are only at your best in pressure situations, that doesn't mean that you are "clutch," that means that you weren't giving your best effort before the game got to that point. It's really similar to what you call a choke because in both situations, the player is only giving their best effort for part of a game. If there is such thing as "clutchness," it should be attributed to those who maintain their focus and composure regardless of the game situation. But if you prefer players that don't show up until they absolutely have to, good luck with those last second prayers.

[2centsworth]

No one defined clutch shooting as last second prayers, except you. Here's more evidence that clutch performances exist.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/studyrevealsbaseballsgreatclutchhitters

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol So I guess the lesson here is that BronxCowboy knows more than all those professional and college coaches and players over the years who talk about a certain guy being incredibly clutch :lol

Got any more insight for us BC?


Nobody can suddenly increase their skill level in crucial situations, what people call "clutchness."

Clutchness isn't a mechanical thing. It's a biological thing. Fight or flight syndrome, basically.

[BronxCowboy]

OK, brilliant. Here's a quote from your "evidence:"

"Fuld defined a clutch hitter as one who hits better at more important moments. "

Apply that to basketball, and it's somebody who shoots better at more important moments. Put another way, it's somebody who shoots less than the best of their ability at all other moments except the most important ones. Whether you call that clutch or not is a matter of semantics. That's what you want to call it, fine. But if that's what it is, it's overrated, which is what I originally said. If somebody only gives their best effort when the game is on the line, they shouldn't get props for it.
For what it's worth, none of this means anything unless you buy the basic assumption made by the writers you quoted that there are "more important moments" in a game. In baseball, this might be true because you have to consider how many outs, whether there are runners on, etc. In basketball, there are 48 minutes in a game and you have to score more than the other guy sometime during those 48 minutes. It doesn't matter when you score them, because they keep adding up during the whole game. If a guy scores 30 points in the first quarter or 30 in the fourth, it doesn't matter. He made the same contribution either way. Every one of the 48 minutes has the same value, so there are no "more important moments." If you score more earlier you don't have to score as much later. So in basketball, clutchness is overrated, if it even exists.

[BronxCowboy]

Clutchness isn't a mechanical thing. It's a biological thing. Fight or flight syndrome, basically.

If that's true, then all players should have it. Every human being has a sympathetic nervous system, epinephrine, and all the other things that are involved in your little fight or flight response there. If you're educated in the field of human physiology, then feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise, don't embarrass yourself.

[BronxCowboy]

:lol So I guess the lesson here is that BronxCowboy knows more than all those professional and college coaches and players over the years who talk about a certain guy being incredibly clutch :lol


Just because something is accepted by the professionals doesn't make it true. Geographers used to think the world was flat. Thinking people know otherwise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Jax says "what's up now, beetches?"

[pooh]

Jackson and the Pacers came to play tonight against Boston.

[Nikos]

So, how good could the Pacers have been if Artest was playing?

[picnroll]

If they were coming into the playoffs fully armed and healthy they could beat anyone.


Or get in another riot with Detroit. Of course they still could do that.

[pooh]

So, how good could the Pacers have been if Artest was playing?

Close to 60 wins with homecourt throughout. But would've, could've, should've....it's all about where they're at right now.

[Vashner]

I really liked the dude. Too bad he can't tame his temper. He's a great ball player.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Close to 60 wins with homecourt throughout.

Pretty ballsy comment from a dork who wouldn't even stand behind his team last year in the playoffs.

[mouse]

Thnaks for the info

[rayray2k8]

mouse, what the hell are you doing here??
what they kick you off the OTHER forum?? (read my signature)

[Kori Ellis]

Mouse has been here for over two years.

[pooh]

Pretty ballsy comment from a dork who wouldn't even stand behind his team last year in the playoffs.

I was all the way behind them last year AHF, you have a lot of balls calling me out on something you are so off on.