Sarah Palin speaks for REAL Americans!

[Stringer_Bell]

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/2012/sarah-palin-founding-fathers-wouldnt-agree-with-separation-of-church-and-state/

Sarah Palin spoke in Kentucky about the phony concept of "sepereation of Church and State." Have a gander at her latest troll job, I mean, speaking engagement...


Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our Founding Fathers, they were believers.

I like her use of the word "lest," totally pious! Oh, but here's the part in the Bill of Rights that pwns her...


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

One of the greatest lessons I learned about writing/speaking is to know the audience. Sarah Palin knows exactly who she is talking to and she's earning every cent of the thousands of dollars she's getting for each of these speaking engagements. She's getting rich by blowing chunks of fecal matter out of her mouth while Americans suffer through this shitty economy, job, and housing market...we can only hope to attain her level of genius! :toast

[DJ Mbenga]

no politician writes their shit. she just recites it.

[Stringer_Bell]

no politician writes their shit. she just recites it.

She's more of a professional speaker now than a politician. I'd expect that she writes much of her own material, no? If someone is writing this stuff for her, they are nailin' Palin's "voice" down quite exceptionally.

[DMX7]

She's a political whore at this point. She'd say anything for money.

[rjv]

some people buy snuggies or go to britney spears concerts. others waste their money on palin. to each their own i guess.

[LnGrrrR]

God, I hate this woman sometimes.



Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our Founding Fathers, they were believers.


Right, because there's no possible way to be a believer AND recognize the value of a separated church and state. *slams head into wall*

Also, it's not like the Founding Fathers were straight-up Christians. Many were Deists. I'm sure if you shared the ideas of Deism with many Christians today, it would be laughed at/derided.

[Spurminator]

Lest anyone try to convince you that NASCAR is not a sport, our Founding Fathers, they were white guys.

[Spurminator]

Lest anyone try to convince you that kids should be able to play on their neighbors' lawns, our Founding Fathers, they were old people.

[Spurminator]

Lest anyone try to convince you that the Renaissance Festival is a waste of money, our Founding Fathers, they wore funny hats.

[LnGrrrR]

Lest anyone try to convince you that you shouldn't be allowed to show up to work drunk, our Founding Fathers, they drank beer.

[Spurminator]

Oh and before I forget,

:ttiwwp:


...and that goes for any discussion about Sarah Palin. Word for word.

[LnGrrrR]

Lest anyone try to convince you that white people are just as equal as other colors of people, our Founding Fathers, they owned slaves.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well if it isn't mentioned in the constitution then it doesn't exist..

[Stringer_Bell]

Actually, I'm starting to think she doesn't know very much about our Founding Fathers when she got asked who her favorite was...

VA_yVbrMEPo

"All of 'em!"...Glenn Beck even says "bullcrap, who is your favorite?"

Please run for President, Mrs. Palin! I don't care how much you make talking bullshit, please do the right thing. Be our George Washington!!!

[rjv]

anyone who can not figure out that palin is completely incompetent has some seriously clouded judgement or is just willing to buy into anything. for those who would say obama duped voters, what would they have to say about this charlatan act palin is pulling? she's a boob with boobs.

[admiralsnackbar]

Lest anyone try to convince you that white people are just as equal as other colors of people, our Founding Fathers, they owned slaves.
And a corollary:
Lest anyone try to convince you that white people are equal to white people, our WASPY forbears discriminated against Irish, Italian, Scandinavian, and Eastern-European folk.

[word]

She's an idiot and will bring down the republican party. Like someone said here a few weeks ago. After the mid-terms her usefulness to the repubs will be depleted.

[word]

Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our Founding Fathers, they were believers.

And they believed in this 'secular' society these fools keep bashing. Be careful what you ask for.

Further they were NOT all believers.


All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
- Thomas Paine

[word]

He also said, among other things...

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

[admiralsnackbar]

And they believed in this 'secular' society these fools keep bashing. Be careful what you ask for.

Further they were NOT all believers.


I find it creepy in the extreme to see how determined the Christian right's historical revisionism is being pushed by their base, with the clear goal to reduce our nation to some grotesque, fascistic theocracy bent on enabling the rapture and armed with nuclear weapons.

[word]

Few people realize that Masons, aren't necessarily 'christians' per se and many of the founding fathers were Masons. Masons believe in a universal god and their aim was to unite mankind. This freaks people out now and they're viewed as 'globalists' and 'illuminati' but the founding fathers did not view religion in the contemporary sense. They'd been bashed by it, and were fed up with it. They were far far from what christians are today. Most of 'em despised the Catholic church, as did Abraham Lincoln.

We are what we are, in part, because we don't let religion run our lives.

[Stringer_Bell]

Further they were NOT all believers.


- Thomas Paine

Thomas Paine has been basically phased out as a Founding Father, kind of like what happened to Thomas Jefferson when the Texas SBoE recently reevaluated its history curriculum to limit his part in Founding Fathers.

Nobody likes Paine because he was the only one that didn't smell like shit from having his head up his ass the whole day.

[word]

HAHA...Thomas Paine is often called 'The Father of the American Revolution'.

That's about as 'Founding Father' as you can get.

[Winehole23]

We are what we are, in part, because we don't let religion run our lives. And religion here is what it is, in part, because the state is forbidden from affiliating or otherwise interfering with it.

The prevalence of godly belief flourishes in the USA as compared with the desiccated state religions of Europe (excepting the RC faith, which was already cosmopolitan at the time of the Reformation, and Anglicanism, which grew with the British Empire.)

It's as true now as when Toqueville pointed it out about 200 years ago. The pious and the ungodly alike owe a great debt to the "wall of separation."

[admiralsnackbar]

And religion here is what it is, in part, because the state is forbidden from affiliating or otherwise interfering with it.

The prevalence of godly belief flourishes in the USA as compared with the desiccated state religions of Europe (excepting the RC faith, which was already cosmopolitan at the time of the Reformation, and Anglicanism, which grew with the British Empire.)

It's as true now as when Toqueville pointed it out about 200 years ago. The pious and the ungodly alike owe a great debt to the "wall of separation."

Excellent point.

[word]

And religion here is what it is, in part, because the state is forbidden from affiliating or otherwise interfering with it.



NOW. But a simple perusal of the history of the Catholic church disputes this in historical terms. Religion did quite well, thank you very much, when it had the hammer of the state enforcing it's values and beliefs.

I correct myself. You did use the word "here". So, agreed. :lol

[rjv]

NOW. But a simple perusal of the history of the Catholic church disputes this in historical terms. Religion did quite well, thank you very much, when it had the hammer of the state enforcing it's values and beliefs.

you are speaking in an historical context but winehole is right when he speaks of the erosion of religion in europe due to the over authoritative church. if not for latin america and africa (where liberation is the breed of catholicism-a far cry from that of the more traditional cathecism) the catholic church would have some severely diminished numbers.

[word]

Yeah the Catholic church worked wonders in Rwanda. Another crime of the church no one talks about. And I'm not bashing Catholics, I am one. But the Catholic church, as an organization...has a lot left to be desired, even today.

[Winehole23]

HAHA...Thomas Paine is often called 'The Father of the American Revolution'.

That's about as 'Founding Father' as you can get.Admired by Bonaparte, distrusted by John Adams, more a father of the anti-clerical French Revolution and abstract universal rights than of the American one and Constitutionalism, TP was important on the American scene for turning the conversation to independence at a crucial moment.

TP had the ear of influential men and influenced them at the founding, hats off to him for that, but that does not necessarily make him a founder. JMO.

[rjv]

Yeah the Catholic church worked wonders in Rwanda. Another crime of the church no one talks about. And I'm not bashing Catholics, I am one. But the Catholic church, as an organization...has a lot left to be desired, even today.

i am as well and i will be the first to bash the church and all of its misgivings and egregious acts and offenses both past and present. i also extol what they get right and embrace the philosophy.

come to think of it i guess that is how i also view our government.

[Winehole23]

TP, "founding father" of the USA, gave advice to Bonaparte on how to invade England (his native land) and the US (his adoptive one before and after France.)

[Winehole23]

From the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine):


In 1802 or 1803, Tom Paine left France for the United States, paying passage also for Bonneville's wife, Marguerite Brazier (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marguerite_Brazier&action=edit&redlink=1) and their three sons, seven year old Benjamin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Bonneville), Louis (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Louis_Bonneville&action=edit&redlink=1), and Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Bonneville&action=edit&redlink=1), of which Paine was godfather. Paine returned to the U.S. in the early stages of the Second Great Awakening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening) and a time of great political partisanship. The Age of Reason gave ample excuse for the religiously devout to dislike him, and the Federalists attacked him for his ideas of government stated in Common Sense, for his association with the French Revolution, and for his friendship with President Jefferson. Also still fresh in the minds of the public was his Letter to Washington, published six years before his return.


Upon his return to America, Paine penned 'On the Origins of Freemasonry.' Nicholas Bonneville printed the essay in French. It was not printed in English until 1810, when Marguerite posthumously published his essay, which she had culled from among his papers, as a pamphlet containing an edited version wherein she omitted his references to the Christian religion. The document was published in English in its entirety in New York in 1918.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#cite_note-Fruchtman-35)

Brazier took care of Paine at the end of his life and buried him on his death on June 8 1809. In his will, Paine left the bulk of his estate to Marguerite, including 100 acres (40.5 ha) of his farm so she could maintain and educate Benjamin and his brother Thomas. In 1810, The fall of Napoleon finally allowed Bonneville to rejoin his wife in the United States where he remained for four years before returning to Paris to open a bookshop.


Paine died at the age of 72, at 59 Grove Street in Greenwich Village (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Village), New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City) on the morning of June 8, 1809. Although the original building is no longer there, the present building has a plaque noting that Paine died at this location.
At the time of his death, most American newspapers reprinted the obituary notice from the New York Citizen (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_York_Citizen&action=edit&redlink=1), which read in part: "He had lived long, did some good and much harm." Only six mourners came to his funeral, two of whom were black, most likely freedmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedman). The great orator and writer Robert G. Ingersoll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll) wrote:

Thomas Paine had passed the legendary limit of life. One by one most of his old friends and acquaintances had deserted him. Maligned on every side, execrated, shunned and abhorred – his virtues denounced as vices – his services forgotten – his character blackened, he preserved the poise and balance of his soul. He was a victim of the people, but his convictions remained unshaken. He was still a soldier in the army of freedom, and still tried to enlighten and civilize those who were impatiently waiting for his death. Even those who loved their enemies hated him, their friend – the friend of the whole world – with all their hearts. On the 8th of June, 1809, death came – Death, almost his only friend. At his funeral no pomp, no pageantry, no civic procession, no military display. In a carriage, a woman and her son who had lived on the bounty of the dead – on horseback, a Quaker, the humanity of whose heart dominated the creed of his head – and, following on foot, two negroes filled with gratitude – constituted the funeral cortege of Thomas Paine.[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#cite_note-36)
"In the summer of 1803 the political atmosphere was in a tempestuous condition, owing to the widespread accusation that Aaron Burr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr) had intrigued with the Federalists against Jefferson to gain the presidency. There was a Society in New York called "Republican Greens," who, on Independence Day, had for a toast "Thomas Paine, the Man of the People", and who seem to have had a piece of music called the "Rights of Man". Paine was also apparently the hero of that day at White Plains, where a vast crowd assembled".


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/01_Paine_burial_location.jpg/220px-01_Paine_burial_location.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:01_Paine_burial_location.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:01_Paine_burial_location.jpg)
The original burial location of Thomas Paine in New Rochelle, New York.




A few years later, the agrarian radical William Cobbett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cobbett) dug up his bones and transported them back to the UK. The plan was to give Paine a heroic reburial on his native soil, but the bones were still among Cobbett's effects when he died over twenty years later. There is no confirmed story about what happened to them after that, although down the years various people have claimed to own parts of Paine's remains, such as his skull and right hand.[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#cite_note-37)[39] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#cite_note-38)

[Winehole23]

Religion did quite well, thank you very much, when it had the hammer of the state enforcing it's values and beliefs.The Founders were keen to avoid the centuries long religious strife of the Old World.

That perspective influences my own preference for the traditional gloss of the First Amendment as it pertains to religion, but that it effectively established religious freedom in the USA is an under-emphasized bonus IMO.

[word]

Well as long as you're using wiki as a source...

Thomas Paine (February 9, 1737 [O.S. January 29, 1736[1]] – June 8, 1809) was an author, pamphleteer, radical, inventor, intellectual, revolutionary, and one of the Founding Fathers of the United States

lol

[Winehole23]

Terminology is a bitch, but that's well played. :lol

[Stringer_Bell]

TP, "founding father" of the USA, gave advice to Bonaparte on how to invade England (his native land) and the US (his adoptive one before and after France.)

Really? I don't remember that. I thought he hated Napoleon.

[Winehole23]

Paine was difficult, at times contradictory man.

The wiki attibutes a comment to the effect of Bonaparte being the biggest charlatan ever, but I guess that didn't prevent him from giving advice to Bonaparte about invading England and the US when the opportunity arose. (Apparently TP really disliked our anglophilic turn under John Adams.)

[ploto]

The funny thing to me is for a bunch of people who claim to be religious, they know so little about religious history. American Fundamentalism did not develop until over a century later. Today's Fundamentalists would have despised the Founding Fathers.

[word]

Today's Fundamentalists would have despised the Founding Fathers.

Oh for sure. Absolutely. Jefferson didn't even believe Jesus was the son of god, but a mortal man. He wrote a 'personal bible' where he edited out the parts of the gospel speaking of Christs miracles.

The idea that this country is a nation founded on Christianity is ridiculous. It was founded on the model of ancient greece and rome.