Dirt vs Barkley

[poop]

Barkley:

20+ppg for 11 consecutive seasons
10+rpg for 14 consecutive seasons
career 54% FG
more assist pg, steals pg

in game 7 of '93 WCF put up 44 pts and 24 rb in decisive game
in finals appearance vs prime jordan bulls put up 27, 13, and 5.5 pg

Dirt:

will be remembered for being the star player on not one but TWO of the biggest, most hilarious playoff flops in league history :lmao

[Giuseppe]

Dirt

tee, hee.

[BlackSwordsMan]

who is dirt

[endrity]

just wow!

[BRHornet45]

sons one can't help but wonder if this would even be a debate if Dirk wasn't white. the amount of hype this 7'0, jump shooting, choke artist receives is ridiculous.

[Phillip]

Barkley has nicer stats, Dirk has a great floor presence and is > barkley at making his teammates better.

If building a superstar team, Barkley is probably better as a role player, while Dirk is better to build around.

[DAF86]

sons one can't help but wonder if this would even be a debate if Dirk wasn't white. the amount of hype this 7'0, jump shooting, choke artist receives is ridiculous.

This wouldn't be a debate if this wasn't a Spurs/Mavs forum.

[The Franchise]

Barkley has nicer stats, Dirk has a great floor presence and is > barkley at making his teammates better.

If building a superstar team, Barkley is probably better as a role player, while Dirk is better to build around.

That is totally wrong. Dirk has a greater floor presence than Barkley? Have you actually seen Barkley play?

[DAF86]

How is possible that nobody came up with the "dirt" nickname before?

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk:

will be remembered for being the best international player in NBA history

fixed

[monosylab1k]

How is possible that nobody came up with the "dirt" nickname before?

Do you not pay attention to what goes on at SpursTalk? Spur Fan has been calling him Dirt for the past 5 years, cheesedick.

[monosylab1k]

That is totally wrong. Dirk has a greater floor presence than Barkley? Have you actually seen Barkley play?

tbh Barkley's best teams occured when he wasn't the floor general. Dr. J in Philly and Kevin Johnson in Phoenix.

[poop]

fixed

im not denying that. although Manu is up there as well.
Dirt is also one of the best pure shooters in NBA history, by far the best shooting big man in history, and one of the great scorers at his position.

[poop]

tbh Barkley's best teams occured when he wasn't the floor general. Dr. J in Philly and Kevin Johnson in Phoenix.

two of the biggest playoff disasters ever occured with Dirt as the team leader :rollin

[DAF86]

Do you not pay attention to what goes on at SpursTalk? Spur Fan has been calling him Dirt for the past 5 years, cheesedick.

I never saw it before tbh.

P/S: Why are you thinking about my dick?

[mavs>spurs2]

sons one can't help but wonder if this would even be a debate if Dirk wasn't white. the amount of hype this 7'0, jump shooting, choke artist receives is ridiculous.

just shut the fuck up. did you SEE game 1? what about his 50 point performance against phoenix? you are sick

[monosylab1k]

I never saw it before tbh.

P/S: Why are you thinking about my dick?

No denial of being a cheesedick. Interesting. Mav Krew victory. That is all.

[dirk4mvp]

tbh I'm starting to get lefty and DAF confused due to similarities in avatars and underwhelming one liners.

[BRHornet45]

just shut the fuck up. did you SEE game 1? what about his 50 point performance against phoenix? you are sick

son all I'm saying is that he sure does get a lot of questionable hype that other players don't get.

[monosylab1k]

son all I'm saying is that he sure does get a lot of questionable hype that other players don't get.

Oh you mean like how TNT promotes the hell out of him and ESPN gives him love and how he's on Vitamin Water commercials all the time and how Nike made a puppet commercial with him?

[monosylab1k]

I loved that NBA Cares commercial where Gerald Wallace gets more face time than Dirk. Dirk was in there for literally one frame. But yeah, he gets a lot of hype.

[endrity]

Oh you mean like how TNT promotes the hell out of him and ESPN gives him love and how he's on Vitamin Water commercials all the time and how Nike made a puppet commercial with him?

Lol, great!

BR, there is a whole thread about calls man. I am waiting on that evidence. It's 5 pages long now. Where did he get calls he didn't deserve! Show me the proof man!

[DAF86]

No denial of being a cheesedick. Interesting. Mav Krew victory. That is all.

:lol I don't even know what does mean

lol Mav Krew victory.

lol like 10 against 1 and you still can't beat me.

[DAF86]

tbh I'm starting to get lefty and DAF confused due to similarities in avatars and underwhelming one liners.

And you forgot shitty posting.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Barkley = Dirk, neither one has done anything to put himself past the other.

[ffadicted]

Barkley is easily the better better how is this even an argument :lol

[dirk4mvp]

Barkley is easily the better better how is this even an argument :lol

lol easily the better better

lol manu > Dirk

[poop]

Dirt is currently in his prime so all the young mavs fans assume hes the best PF ever, hahahaha.

Duncan's prime was '98 thru 2005, hes WAY past his prime but they judge him by how he is now vs Dirt in his prime

Duncan's prime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirt

[ffadicted]

:cry:cry:cry

It's ok, no need to cry :(

[dirk4mvp]

editing quotes to post that is almost as funny as the better better.

[ffadicted]

:cry:cry:cry

there there, let's not get carried away here

[dirk4mvp]

Manufans are awesome and not retarded at all.

[Phillip]

lol ffadicted

lol spurfan

lol likes weiner in his butt

[hitmanyr2k]

Breaking it down...

Scoring - edge Barkley. Barkley didn't have Dirk's range but Dirk doesn't have Barkley's post game and toughness either. When it comes to putting the ball in the basket efficiently and putting pressure on the defense Barkley's game is better.

Playmaking- Barkley. His game in the paint caused more double-teams to come his way and opened up things for his teammates a lot more than Dirk's perimeter game.

Rebounding - edge Barkley. No contest here.

Defense - Draw. Neither player really makes a big impact on this end of the floor. Barkley was notoriously lazy on that end and I remember in '95 or '96 (maybe both :lol) the GMs voted him worst defender in the league.

Intangibles - Draw. I can't think of any for either player lol.

[ffadicted]

lol butthurt mavs fans can't see the obvious fact that Barkley > > > Dirk. It's not like I'm trying to take away anything Dirk has done, they're both great players... it's just the obvious truth. hitmanyr's pretty much got it right up there

[The Franchise]

Breaking it down...

Scoring - edge Barkley. Barkley didn't have Dirk's range but Dirk doesn't have Barkley's post game and toughness either. When it comes to putting the ball in the basket efficiently and putting pressure on the defense Barkley's game is better.

Playmaking- Barkley. His game in the paint caused more double-teams to come his way and opened up things for his teammates a lot more than Dirk's perimeter game.

Rebounding - edge Barkley. No contest here.

Defense - Draw. Neither player really makes a big impact on this end of the floor. Barkley was notoriously lazy on that end and I remember in '95 or '96 (maybe both :lol) the GMs voted him worst defender in the league.

Intangibles - Draw. I can't think of any for either player lol.

Thank you sir. I like Dirk, but Barkley was better. Given a choice between a prime Dirk and a prime Barkley, the Mavs organization would even pick Barkley.

[jimo2305]

Originally Posted by poop View Post

Dirk:

will be remembered for being the best international player in NBA history



fixed

http://www.davidestrada.com/nbamatchup/ManuGold.jpg

http://www.manuginobilisworld.com/pictures/manu_ginobili3.jpg

http://www.manuginobilisworld.com/pictures/manu_ginobili2.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06ss8PWbro7sf/340x.jpg

[dirk4mvp]

Cool pics man. Thanks for sharing.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Barkley:

20+ppg for 11 consecutive seasons
10+rpg for 14 consecutive seasons
career 54% FG
more assist pg, steals pg

in game 7 of '93 WCF put up 44 pts and 24 rb in decisive game
in finals appearance vs prime jordan bulls put up 27, 13, and 5.5 pg

Dirt:

will be remembered for being the star player on not one but TWO of the biggest, most hilarious playoff flops in league history :lmao

Dirk's resume compares pretty well with Barkley... and Barkley is a first- or second-tier HOFer. So where is the shame in this?

[Muser]

Barkley is better at rebounding, everything else is pretty much a wash.

[Killakobe81]

I say Barkley malone and dirk are three of the greatest that have never won a title.

But that LAST part alone leaves them short as GREATEST PF ever debate if we INSIST on calling Duncan a PF ...he wins hands down.


But be honest the position (PF) is packed with great stars but not a lot of champions in recent years. Kemp, barkley, Malone, amare Dirk were amazing and dirk still is but none have rings. KG would still be ringles if the Celts hadnt have saved him.

[DAF86]

KG would still be ringles if the Celts hadnt have saved him.

The Celts saved KG just as much as he saved them.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Saying Dirk is better than Barkley is a stretch to say the least. You can't say one is noticeably better than the other. They both have 1 MVP, 1 finals appearance (however I will say that the 1993 Suns would have curb stomped, face fucked, ass raped and bukkaked on the 2006 Heat), while they both will be known as below average defenders and both have had several playoff hick-ups.

[endrity]

Saying Dirk is better than Barkley is a stretch to say the least. You can't say one is noticeably better than the other. They both have 1 MVP, 1 finals appearance (however I will say that the 1993 Suns would have curb stomped, face fucked, ass raped and bukkaked on the 2006 Heat), while they both will be known as below average defenders and both have had several playoff hick-ups.

Because the 93 Suns were so good at stopping one great wing player, they obviously would have stopped the other.

And before the lol at comparing Wade with MJ starts, in PER terms Wade's performace throughout the playoffs and in the Finals was Jordan level (actually in the finals his PER was higher than any Jordan Finals series).

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Because the 93 Suns were so good at stopping one great wing player, they obviously would have stopped the other.

And before the lol at comparing Wade with MJ starts, in PER terms Wade's performace throughout the playoffs and in the Finals was Jordan level (actually in the finals his PER was higher than any Jordan Finals series).


Even if 2006 Wade = 1993 Jordan (which is total, utter bullshit to an extreme level)

Dan Majerle's perimeter D> Adrian Griffin/Devin Harris's perimeter D
Scottie Pippen >>>>>>>>>> anyone other than Wade on the 2006 Heat
Pippen and MJ's supporting cast >>>> Wade and Shaq's supporting cast
1993 Bulls defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2006 Heat defense

[Henke]

Last time I checked Dirk's career isn't over and he's still in his prime.

When all is said and done we can talk again.

[DAF86]

Last time I checked Dirk's career isn't over and he's still in his prime.

When all is said and done we can talk again.

And his years playing as washed up player are also to come which means that his career average stats will decrease.

[dickface]

DoK are you simply saying the Suns wouldn't choke like the Mavs did? Is that all? We all know Dallas was clearly the better team and was well on their way to curb stomping, face fucking, ass raping and bukkake-ing the Heat as well, until they pulled a choke job of epic proportions.

If you're saying that Suns team was better than the 06 Mavs, I think that's easily debatable. If you're just saying they wouldn't pull an epic chokejob in the Finals against a far inferior opponent, then I'd probably agree.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

DoK are you simply saying the Suns wouldn't choke like the Mavs did? Is that all? We all know Dallas was clearly the better team and was well on their way to curb stomping, face fucking, ass raping and bukkake-ing the Heat as well, until they pulled a choke job of epic proportions.

If you're saying that Suns team was better than the 06 Mavs, I think that's easily debatable. If you're just saying they wouldn't pull an epic chokejob in the Finals against a far inferior opponent, then I'd probably agree.


I'm saying the 1993 Suns were a better team than the 2006 Mavs, so yeah I'm also indirectly saying they wouldn't have choked. Feel free to debate that if you want but I don't think it's close when you look at everything that team had.

[badfish22]

The Celts saved KG just as much as he saved them.

Eh, I guess. Pierce was obviously the alpha dog of that team though.

[DAF86]

Eh, I guess. Pierce was obviously the alpha dog of that team though.

No, he wasn't. KG end up third in MVP voting that year. And before you pull the finals MVP card let me tell you that Parker won finals MVP over Duncan in 2007.

[Henke]

And his years playing as washed up player are also to come which means that his career average stats will decrease.

I can easily see Dirk playing in this seasons level for the next 2 years.Actually I'm pretty confident to bet on this.

Career regular season average stats??I don't give many attention to them(btw they are set,it isn't easy to change your stats dramatically in 3-4 years).

In the playoffs their stats are pretty even.

All I want to say is that if Dirk wins a ring the next couple of seasons,he's automatically > than Barkley.

[dickface]

I'm saying the 1993 Suns were a better team than the 2006 Mavs, so yeah I'm also indirectly saying they wouldn't have choked. Feel free to debate that if you want but I don't think it's close when you look at everything that team had.

I think it's crazy to say it's not even close, especially considering the 93 Suns played before the 3 point line became the huge weapon it is today. Back then they had 2 guys who could shoot the 3. The 06 Mavs had 5.

tbh that's one thing you have to consider. Before the 3 point line shrank and everybody started bombing from behind the arc, the 3 was a little used weapon. There was generally one or two specialists on every team and that was it. Nowadays it's almost a requirement that 4 or more guys on the team can hit the shot at a fairly consistent clip. tbh I think the 05 Suns would curbstomp the 92 Suns. No way they could handle that fast of a pace and that barrage of 3 pointers.

Back to the 06 mavs, I don't see anybody coming close to being able to stop Dirk, I see Devin Harris neutralizing KJ's scoring offense much like he did to Parker, I see Josh Howard handling Majerle, and I see Damp/Diop doing a halfway decent job on Barkley much like they did against Duncan.

Not saying the 06 Mavs were better, not saying that at all, but to act like they wouldn't stand a chance against them is stupidity and homerism, brah.

[badfish22]

_c4l8LW_ebw

It was Pierces team.

[dude1394]

Dirt is fine. They call him "dirty" anyway. Keep yucking it up... :)

[DAF86]

_c4l8LW_ebw

It was Pierces team.

No, it wasn't, ask any Celtics fan.

[badfish22]

Thats the impression I got from watching the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong.

[dude1394]

I actually do not think barkley would be half the player he was without the illegal defense rules. You had to sit there and let him dislodge the defender for 20 seconds and then shoot it. Couldn't double worth a crap. I hated the way he and shaq played, it completely turned me off basketball. It was a wrestling match and still is when the offense player is allowed to foul the defensive guy to get a better shot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

imo:

When comparing the Alpha dog and side kick on each team:
1993 Barkley > 2006 Dirk (not by a large margin but by enough of a margin to mention it)
Kevin Johnson > Jason Terry (I don't there's much anyone could do to dispute this)

Supporting cast at SG/SF
Majerle + Ceballos + Ainge + Dumas > Howard + Daniels + Stackhouse + Griffin

Supporting cast at C:
Mark West + Oliver Miller = Dampier + Diop

There was no where for me to include Harris or Chambers. I figured the two wouldn't make a huge difference and cancel each other out.

[dickface]

No, it wasn't, ask any Celtics fan.

:lol i'm sure you've done great research to come to this conclusion.

ask any Celtics fan other than your KG-dicksucking ass buddy mogrovejo, and then see what response you get.

[badfish22]

:lol i'm sure you've done great research to come to this conclusion.

ask any Celtics fan other than your KG-dicksucking ass buddy mogrovejo, and then see what response you get.

it wasn't mogro apparently. endrity already raped him on that.

[DAF86]

:lol i'm sure you've done great research to come to this conclusion.

ask any Celtics fan other than your KG-dicksucking ass buddy mogrovejo, and then see what response you get.

I know the answer from almost all the Celtics fans of this forum and from Bill Simmons.

[badfish22]

I guess you could say KG and Pierce were equally important to that team, but I thought Pierce was the more important of the two. just imo

[dickface]

I guess you could say KG and Pierce were equally important to that team, but I thought Pierce was the more important of the two. just imo

When it came time to win a championship, KG was bricking baseline jumpers and trying his damnedest to avoid ever having the ball in his hands. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were getting shit done.

Maybe it was all the heart and soul KG passed on to them before that point. That propelled them to win a title as Garnett went off in search of his testicles.

[hitmanyr2k]

Because the 93 Suns were so good at stopping one great wing player, they obviously would have stopped the other.

And before the lol at comparing Wade with MJ starts, in PER terms Wade's performace throughout the playoffs and in the Finals was Jordan level (actually in the finals his PER was higher than any Jordan Finals series).

The difference between Dirk's '06 Mavs and Barkley's '93 Suns is Phoenix had to deal with TWO superstar swingmen (Jordan and Pippen) while Dirk's Mavs only had to deal with one (Wade).

Pippen damn near averaged a triple-double in the '93 Finals with 21ppg, 9 rebs, 8 assists, and 2 steals. I don't think Miami had a 2nd player that was giving them kind of production.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Back to the 06 mavs, I don't see anybody coming close to being able to stop Dirk
I don't see anyone coming close to stopping Barkley


I see Devin Harris neutralizing KJ's scoring offense much like he did to Parker
What about KJ's passing offense? You can't put Parker in the same breath as KJ, furthermore it's asinine to come to the conclusion being able to neutralize Parker is the same as being to neutralize KJ.


I see Josh Howard handling Majerle
I see them cancelling each other out.


I see the two more or less cancelling each other out, and I see Damp/Diop doing a halfway decent job on Barkley much like they did against Duncan.
If you're referring to the series where Duncan averaged well over 30 points and basically scored at will, all the while playing through plantar fascitis, then yeah, I see Damp/Diop doing the halfway decent job guarding Barkley the way they guarded Duncan.


Not saying the 06 Mavs were better, not saying that at all, but to act like they wouldn't stand a chance against them is stupidity and homerism, brah.
It's not homerism as much as it's my belief the NBA had one of its weakest years in 2006 and that 1993 was a way stronger year.

[dickface]

If you're referring to the series where Duncan averaged well over 30 points and basically scored at will, all the while playing through plantar fascitis, then yeah, I see Damp/Diop doing the halfway decent job guarding Barkley the way they guarded Duncan.

Yeah and I remember Diop stuffing Duncan's biggest shot of the series right back in his face.

[dickface]

Sorry, but in the era where the 3 pointer has become an essential part of surviving in the NBA, rather than the occasional convenience that it used to be, you're insane to think a team that has only 2 decent 3-point shooters on it could curbstomp a team that has 5.

[Ghazi]

My thoughts:

KG > Pierce on '08 team and career wise, although Pierce was the #1 offensive option in the playoffs and KG shot poorly in the Finals.

Mavs in 2006 should've won the title if not for the worst call in the history of sports, but were not a very dominant team and probably would be remembered as one of the weaker title teams of all time.

I was a 4 YO in '93 and cant comment on the Suns :smokin

[dickface]

Take Tim Duncan, then remove his skills and moves in the post and make him simply try to overpower people all the time. Then remove some basketball IQ and the ability to calmly lead his team. Then shrink him by over half a foot.

Don't wanna go all Bill Russell Diop here, but Diop/Damp would average 8+ blocks a game on Barkley.

[LnGrrrR]

As a Celtics fan, I call that Pierce's team, but only due to seniority. I think it was one of the rare teams where two leaders shared the load relatively equally: Pierce on offense, KG on defense. You could argue that KG was then the leader because the D is what won us the title.

I'm sentimental towards PP though, and refuse to give another player top billing over him.

[Otaku]

Sir Charles by a mile.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah and I remember Diop stuffing Duncan's biggest shot of the series right back in his face.


So 1 block makes it so Diop and Dampier did a "halfway decent" job on Duncan when the monster series Duncan had was the only thing keeping SA in it?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Take Tim Duncan, then remove his skills and moves in the post and make him simply try to overpower people all the time. Then remove some basketball IQ and the ability to calmly lead his team. Then shrink him by over half a foot.
Funny you neglect to mention how much stronger Barkley is than Duncan or how athletic Barkley was for his size. Also, maybe he isn't as smart as Duncan, but Barkley had a pretty high basketball IQ.



Don't wanna go all Bill Russell Diop here, but Diop/Damp would average 8+ blocks a game on Barkley.
That makes tons of sense. Barkley was able to put up huge numbers on taller 7 footers his entire career, but somehow, some way, Diop and Dampier would have been able to expose his lack of height the way David Robinson couldn't.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Sorry, but in the era where the 3 pointer has become an essential part of surviving in the NBA, rather than the occasional convenience that it used to be, you're insane to think a team that has only 2 decent 3-point shooters on it could curbstomp a team that has 5.


Even without the usage of 3 pointers, the 1993 Suns were a more efficient offense than the 2006 Mavericks.