About Tony Parker's free throws...

[GSH]

A couple of days ago, someone posted that Tony Parker was an offensive liability, because of his missed free throws. Tony Parker an offensive liability? Please. Parker's free throw percentage dropped by .052 (5.2%) this year. That's not nearly as important as the fact that his field goal percentage increased by .035 (3.5%) over last year. Field goals count for 2 (or 3) points, and he shot a lot more of them.

In fact, in the regular season Tony scored 232 more points than he did last year. Suppose his free throw percentage had stayed exactly the same as last year: he would have scored an additional 17 points at the line. So he overcame that 17 point "deficit" and still scored 232 more points than last year. (In total, he went to the line 51 more times this year, and scored 11 more points off free throws, even though his percentage was lower.)

Don't like that statistic? How about this one? In 18 of the Spurs' 23 losses this year, Parker was a combined 44-59 from the line - a FT% of .746. In 26 of the Spurs' 59 wins this season, Parker was a combined 20-61 from the line - a FT% of .328. It's pretty obvious that the Spurs don't live or die by Tony's free throw shooting.

Tony put up 215 more 2-point shots this year than he did last year. And he makes almost 52% of his 2-point shots. (It's hard to imagine a guy who makes 52% of his 2-pointers being a liability. By contrast, Dwayne Wade makes 48%, and Ray Allen makes 46%) Tony is creating more good looks for himself, and for the rest of the team. And even though he missed 113 free throws during the season, it would be interesting to know how many of those were "and-1" opportunities, where he had already scored 2 points.

Since I'm going crazy on stats - here's one more. In the only playoff game the Spurs lost to Denver, Parker was 0-0 from the line. In the four wins, he was 4-6, 4-6, 6-7, and 2-7. The fact that he went to the line 7 times in the last game is probably more important than the missed attempts.

I know it sucks to see guys miss free throws down the stretch. But it's a 48-minute game, and the ones at the end count the same 1 point as the ones at the beginning. The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game. And if there is a team in basketball that can miss a free throw at one end and make up for it by getting a stop on the other end, it is the Spurs.

[CosmicCowboy]

Tony and Manu are going to destroy this Sonics team...the Sonics biggest defensive weakness all year is the inability to impede or stop fast slashers to the rack...And that is exactly where I expect Pop and PJ to attack them...their bigs are physical, but not nimble or particularly sound fundamentally...I expect the Seattle bigs to fight foul trouble the whole series...

[1Parker1]

I like the new guy (GSH) ! :) He's had some very interesting threads and takes on the Spurs. Welcome to the board!

[ducks]

tp made 95 out of 100 in practice that morning

[boutons]

"same as last year: he would have scored an additional 17 points at the line"

Compare anything with shit (Tony last year's FTs, Tony career FTs), and it smells pretty good.

For 04/05, Tony's FTs: 210-323 for .650

This is horrendous, unless you compare with FT shitties like Shaq, Tim, or typically other big men, esp for a PG who tends to score as much as he play-makes.

I prefer to have high standard fors Tony, not shit standards.

So let's see, I'd like Tony to be 25th in the league in FTs, shoot .850, another 65 pts for the Tony/Spurs last season. Is that expecting too much? 25th?

How much is +65 pts?

It's 4 x Tony's season PPG, equals +4 entire games of Tony scoring, from the FT line alone.

[BigVee]

You can list all the stats you want. Parker should shoot 80% from the line. It drives me crazy when he gets to the line, shoots too fast and then has that shitty grin on his face. Horrible. Just because you do something else well, it does not excuse mediocrity in another area.

[JUUOT]

Agreed, it does not excuse mediocrity in other area. the thing with parker is he kept improving different part season after season. I wait for him to keep increase his PPG thanks to his FT next year. But the first argument was he improved his shot percentage which is in itself a good point.
So yes we should complain until he shoots 80%FT consitently.
So NO we should not forget how tony became a lot more consistent and improved this year

[sa_butta]

you know what is crazy even with poor free throw shooting we still find a way to win. I think when we shoot better from the line it is a bonus for us. I think every spurs fan in here gets nervous anytime anyone but Brown, Gino, and Barry go to the line.

[wildbill2u]

Parker has improved his FT% in the playoffs as has Duncan. I've been impressed that they have taken their concentration to a new level this far.

[BigVee]

Agreed, it does not excuse mediocrity in other area. the thing with parker is he kept improving different part season after season. I wait for him to keep increase his PPG thanks to his FT next year. But the first argument was he improved his shot percentage which is in itself a good point.
So yes we should complain until he shoots 80%FT consitently.
So NO we should not forget how tony became a lot more consistent and improved this year

Yes, I think he is playing very well and I sure am glad he is a Spur. Maybe FT improvement next year.

[ducks]

You can list all the stats you want. Parker should shoot 80% from the line. It drives me crazy when he gets to the line, shoots too fast and then has that shitty grin on his face. Horrible. Just because you do something else well, it does not excuse mediocrity in another area.


do you excel in every area of your life?

[Horry For 3!]

Well in dealing with TP and his free throw shooting, sometimes he shoots them well and sometimes he doesn't. That doesn't effect anything really and he can still produce a good amount of offense.

[spursfan05]

he may be the worst guard at shooting free throws ever.

currently at 61% for the playoffs JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST!!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

do you excel in every area of your life?
Another stupid take from Ducks. Tp is a pro fool, and he doesn't have to excel in every aspect of his life, just excel in basketball.

[BigVee]

do you excel in every area of your life?

Doesn't everyone?

[MadDog73]

he may be the worst guard at shooting free throws ever.

currently at 61% for the playoffs JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST!!


Nerves?!?

While crappy FT% are certainly frustrating, what are we going to do?

Hire a free throw coach like the Mavs? (oh, wait, that's actually a good idea...)

[CosmicCowboy]

Nerves?!?

While crappy FT% are certainly frustrating, what are we going to do?

Hire a free throw coach like the Mavs? (oh, wait, that's actually a good idea...)

maybe we can just hire theirs part time for the playoffs after the Mavs get eliminated tomorrow...

[bigbendbruisebrother]

A couple of days ago, someone posted that Tony Parker was an offensive liability, because of his missed free throws. Tony Parker an offensive liability? Please. Parker's free throw percentage dropped by .052 (5.2%) this year. That's not nearly as important as the fact that his field goal percentage increased by .035 (3.5%) over last year. Field goals count for 2 (or 3) points, and he shot a lot more of them.

In fact, in the regular season Tony scored 232 more points than he did last year. Suppose his free throw percentage had stayed exactly the same as last year: he would have scored an additional 17 points at the line. So he overcame that 17 point "deficit" and still scored 232 more points than last year. (In total, he went to the line 51 more times this year, and scored 11 more points off free throws, even though his percentage was lower.)

Don't like that statistic? How about this one? In 18 of the Spurs' 23 losses this year, Parker was a combined 44-59 from the line - a FT% of .746. In 26 of the Spurs' 59 wins this season, Parker was a combined 20-61 from the line - a FT% of .328. It's pretty obvious that the Spurs don't live or die by Tony's free throw shooting.

Tony put up 215 more 2-point shots this year than he did last year. And he makes almost 52% of his 2-point shots. (It's hard to imagine a guy who makes 52% of his 2-pointers being a liability. By contrast, Dwayne Wade makes 48%, and Ray Allen makes 46%) Tony is creating more good looks for himself, and for the rest of the team. And even though he missed 113 free throws during the season, it would be interesting to know how many of those were "and-1" opportunities, where he had already scored 2 points.

Since I'm going crazy on stats - here's one more. In the only playoff game the Spurs lost to Denver, Parker was 0-0 from the line. In the four wins, he was 4-6, 4-6, 6-7, and 2-7. The fact that he went to the line 7 times in the last game is probably more important than the missed attempts.

I know it sucks to see guys miss free throws down the stretch. But it's a 48-minute game, and the ones at the end count the same 1 point as the ones at the beginning. The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game. And if there is a team in basketball that can miss a free throw at one end and make up for it by getting a stop on the other end, it is the Spurs.

Excellent stats, and I agree that TP is not an offensive liability. However, imagine how much more valuable an asset he would be if he did shoot freethrows in the top 25 (to use Boutons yardstick). While Tony has matured really quickly in his four seasons, I'd love to see him work on his free throws like Malik did in the off-season a couple of years ago.

Stats can prove or hide anything (see Robert McNamara and the Vietnam War). One thing the above stats seem to confirm to me is something that someone pointed out in the game blog the other night--the problem is one of concentration, not mechanics. What is not debateable is that Tony Parker would be all the more dangerous if he were a better free throw shooter. He can do it and he should.

[2centsworth]

Tony just needs to change his stance at the line and use more wrist and less elbow, tongue, and hand.

[GSH]

"So let's see, I'd like Tony to be 25th in the league in FTs, shoot .850, another 65 pts for the Tony/Spurs last season. Is that expecting too much? 25th?

Damn, Boutons... you set your sights way too low. I'd like to see the refs call a foul every time Tim gets hammered in the blocks. I'd like to see Shaq get whistled every time he backs his ass over a stationary defender on the way to the basket. I'd like to see Rasho hit that 15-footer 8 times out of 10, like he does in the shoot-arounds. I'd like to see us get David Robinson back on the team - a 27 year old David Robinson. As long as we're wishing, why wish for Tony Parker to be 25th in the league in FTs? I'd like to see ME be 25th in the league, and playing for the Spurs.

First of all, I never said it was good for Parker to be shooting .650 from the line. I responded to the comment that Tony is an offensive liability. You don't like my stats? How about this one? Who are the four best teams in the playoffs this year? Most people would say the Spurs, Suns, Pistons, and Heat. Everybody knows the Spurs can't shoot free throws. If they don't win the championship this year, they are probably going to lose it at the free throw line, right? Just how much better are the other three teams at shooting free throws? This is how the "big four" shot FT's in the regular season, and how they ranked in the league:

Team FT% Rank (out of 30 teams)
Heat .672 30
Spurs .724 26
Pistons .739 23
Suns .748 22

Yeah, but things change in the post-season don't they? I mean, the Spurs are probably a lot worse than those other "good" teams, now that the playoffs are here, right? So how do the "big four" stack up on FT% in the playoffs so far?

Team FT% Rank (out of 16 teams)
Heat .655 16
Suns .742 11
Spurs .755 8
Pistons .813 2

Kinda hard to believe, huh? A piss-poor, mentally-weak group like the Spurs, and still shooting free throws better than half the teams in the playoffs. I guess if it wasn't that raggedy-assed Tony Parker holding down their percentage, it would be somebody else, huh?


"I prefer to have high standard fors Tony, not shit standards.
Fortunately for poor Tony, the standard that matters is winning games. He's pretty good at that one.

[GSH]

One thing the above stats seem to confirm to me is something that someone pointed out in the game blog the other night--the problem is one of concentration, not mechanics.

Ahhh hell. I wasn't going to do this, but...

It's true that a big part of shooting free throws is mental. But that doesn't mean that you can instantly say that Parker doesn't have the mental toughness he needs. When you are surrounded by a bunch of guys who are tossing up bricks, it becomes a lot harder to keep a mental picture of a free throw cutting the cords. Constantly being around bad free throw shooters will cause most players to begin shooting them worse. Don't believe me? Talk to any good golfer you know, and ask him or her how difficult it is to play with someone who shoots 110, and still turn in a good score. Some days you can block it out, but a lot of the time you can't keep it from dragging you down.

And free throws aren't all mental. You see a lot of bricks thrown up in the 4th quarters of games because of the pressure, but a lot of them are also caused by tired legs. Tim Duncan spends 100% of his time in the blocks with some huge guy leaning on him. Besides all of the normal running in a basketball game he is, in effect, doing 20+ minutes of leg presses every night. Does that have an effect on his legs, and do legs have an effect on shooting free throws? You bet. Here's a little experiment you can try at home: go and do a really heavy leg workout. Not the wimpy kind, like you usually do, but one that really fatigues your legs - makes them feel a little shaky. Afterwards, squat down and jump; you can probably do okay with that. Then squat down and try to stand up really slowly. That's a totally different story. Try shooting a few free throws while your legs feel like that. Then come back and talk about the mental aspect.

What makes it worse is that things begin to feed on themselves. Miss a few free throws, and it becomes harder to make the next one. A lot of the mental part of shooting free throws, just like making 4-foot putts on the golf course, is about visualing. Being able to see yourself make a good stroke, being able to see the ball go in the hole, before you let go. Miss a few, and it becomes harder to visualize anything but the ball bouncing off the rim. Miss a few free throws at the end of the game because your legs are tired, and you remember it next game. Golfers call it "the yips", and any sports psychologist will tell you that it is incredibly difficult to get past.

It seems kind of funny that the other 3 "premier" teams in the league shoot almost as bad, or even worse than the Spurs do from the line. Consider that maybe... just maybe... there may be reasons why the Spurs shoot FT's so poorly as a team. (I mean besides them being mentally weak and never working on them at practice.) I've always believed that the Spurs' brand of defense contributes, at least a little bit, to their lower free throw percentages.

There is some good news for the Spurs, too. Most of them are getting to the line more and/or shooting a higher percentage than last year. Bowen's FT% increased 55 points (5.5%) over last year, Duncan's increased 71 points, Nazr's increased 101 points, and Horry's increased 144 points. And, while Manu's percentage stayed the same (.803), and his minutes played decreased, he went to the line 442 times this season vs. 298 trips last season. However bad they are, the charity stripe is contributing a lot more for them this year than last year. And I thought they were about .4 seconds from having a really good team last year.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ahhh hell. I wasn't going to do this, but...

It's true that a big part of shooting free throws is mental. But that doesn't mean that you can instantly say that Parker doesn't have the mental toughness he needs. When you are surrounded by a bunch of guys who are tossing up bricks, it becomes a lot harder to keep a mental picture of a free throw cutting the cords. Constantly being around bad free throw shooters will cause most players to begin shooting them worse. Don't believe me? Talk to any good golfer you know, and ask him or her how difficult it is to play with someone who shoots 110, and still turn in a good score. Some days you can block it out, but a lot of the time you can't keep it from dragging you down.

And free throws aren't all mental. You see a lot of bricks thrown up in the 4th quarters of games because of the pressure, but a lot of them are also caused by tired legs. Tim Duncan spends 100% of his time in the blocks with some huge guy leaning on him. Besides all of the normal running in a basketball game he is, in effect, doing 20+ minutes of leg presses every night. Does that have an effect on his legs, and do legs have an effect on shooting free throws? You bet. Here's a little experiment you can try at home: go and do a really heavy leg workout. Not the wimpy kind, like you usually do, but one that really fatigues your legs - makes them feel a little shaky. Afterwards, squat down and jump; you can probably do okay with that. Then squat down and try to stand up really slowly. That's a totally different story. Try shooting a few free throws while your legs feel like that. Then come back and talk about the mental aspect.

What makes it worse is that things begin to feed on themselves. Miss a few free throws, and it becomes harder to make the next one. A lot of the mental part of shooting free throws, just like making 4-foot putts on the golf course, is about visualing. Being able to see yourself make a good stroke, being able to see the ball go in the hole, before you let go. Miss a few, and it becomes harder to visualize anything but the ball bouncing off the rim. Miss a few free throws at the end of the game because your legs are tired, and you remember it next game. Golfers call it "the yips", and any sports psychologist will tell you that it is incredibly difficult to get past.

It seems kind of funny that the other 3 "premier" teams in the league shoot almost as bad, or even worse than the Spurs do from the line. Consider that maybe... just maybe... there may be reasons why the Spurs shoot FT's so poorly as a team. (I mean besides them being mentally weak and never working on them at practice.) I've always believed that the Spurs' brand of defense contributes, at least a little bit, to their lower free throw percentages.

There is some good news for the Spurs, too. Most of them are getting to the line more and/or shooting a higher percentage than last year. Bowen's FT% increased 55 points (5.5%) over last year, Duncan's increased 71 points, Nazr's increased 101 points, and Horry's increased 144 points. And, while Manu's percentage stayed the same (.803), and his minutes played decreased, he went to the line 442 times this season vs. 298 trips last season. However bad they are, the charity stripe is contributing a lot more for them this year than last year. And I thought they were about .4 seconds from having a really good team last year.


wow...totally awesome post top to bottom...the point about playing hard defense for the entire shot clock contributing to tired legs/reduced free throw efficiency was something I had never connected...and it makes perfect sense...

[DDS4]

Good post GSH.

Tony will be just fine...time is on his side. He might not be a 90%er like a Peja or Reggie Miller, but with a little work he'll get better.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol Oh geez, where to begin...

FIRST


That's not nearly as important as the fact that his field goal percentage increased by .035 (3.5%) over last year. Field goals count for 2 (or 3) points, and he shot a lot more of them.

Here's what's important: it doesn't matter if Tony was shooting 80% from the field. If a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Tony late in the game, they're going to start just fouling him. All the field goal percentage increases in the world don't mean a damn thing if you don't get to shoot them.


Just how much better are the other three teams at shooting free throws? This is how the "big four" shot FT's in the regular season, and how they ranked in the league:

You're crystallizing this thing like if we play any of these four teams, we're just going to line up and shoot FTs to see who win, and hope we get lucky.

Here's what you need to be thinking about... the four teams you mentioned are all relatively even WRT to just about every facet of their game.

In a situation like that, the little things are what makes the difference. And in tight games, that's often free throws.

I hate this stupid "well, look what other people are doing" argument. Fuck that. It doesn't make me feel any better or make our chances of winning any better just because another team might suck at FTs like us.

The object is to WIN. Now it's not an absolute thing (luck has some to do with it) but generally speaking in pro sports if you do more things better than the other guy, you win.

Free throws are another thing, should we aspire to win it all (which I think it's safe saying we do), that we should be trying to be as good as possible at to give us one more thing we're better at than everyone else.

[ducks]

Another stupid take from Ducks. Tp is a pro fool, and he doesn't have to excel in every aspect of his life, just excel in basketball.
DOES EVERY BASKETBALL PLAYER EXCEL IN EVERY AREA OF BASKETBALL

SHAQ MISSES ALOT OF FREE THROWS DOES THAT MAKE HIM SUCK AND NOT A GOOD PLAYER?

[ducks]

Tony just needs to change his stance at the line and use more wrist and less elbow, tongue, and hand.
REALLY ? HE MADE 95 OUT OF 100 IN PRACTICE THAT MORNING HE MISSED 5 OUT OF 7 DURING THE GAME

[ducks]

he may be the worst guard at shooting free throws ever.

currently at 61% for the playoffs JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST!!
WHAT DOES JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
:lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Also, who gives a shit about practice? If say your wife, or your mom or dad, whoever, were having open heart surgery and the doctor fucked up and killed them, would you be happy with the doc saying "well, I aced my final back in college, my bad."

You don't win championships for practice. You don't get points in the game for what you hit in practice.

[timvp]

Also, who gives a shit about practice? If say your wife, or your mom or dad, whoever, were having open heart surgery and the doctor fucked up and killed them, would you be happy with the doc saying "well, I aced my final back in college, my bad."

You don't win championships for practice. You don't get points in the game for what you hit in practice.


http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-05-07-iverson2.jpg
Practice? We're talking about practice. Not a game. Practice.

[Bandit2981]

at first glance it looked like Iverson was wearing an Arby's hat

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Pounding the rock isn't the team motto without reason. It means keep chipping away at the little things, and the big things will eventually give way.

Tony Parker has pounded the rock for four years now. He's improved his defense. He added the teardrop. He's learned to balance scoring and running the offense.

No one is saying Tony Parker is a shitty player because he can't hit free throws (well, I guess some people are saying that, but they're morons). The point is, pound the rock. Take care of the little things. Being a better freethrow shooter is TP's next section of rock to work. Running plays at the end of quarters is a jagged little chunk for Tony to whack at as well.

[2centsworth]

REALLY ? HE MADE 95 OUT OF 100 IN PRACTICE THAT MORNING HE MISSED 5 OUT OF 7 DURING THE GAME
Free throw shooting is all about consistency. Hence, it's hard to consistently move your tongue, hand, elbow the same everytime. Now hitting 95 out of 100 is someone getting hot and that happens with Tony, if he's hot from the line he doesn't miss, but he's not consistent.

Nevertheless, your point about there not being a perfect basketball player is true. They all have weaknesses, and Tony is one where his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.

[GSH]

:lol Oh geez, where to begin....
Wrong question. You should have been worrying about when to quit.


You're crystallizing this thing like if we play any of these four teams, we're just going to line up and shoot FTs to see who win, and hope we get lucky.
Ummm.... no. I'm not. I acknowledged that free throw shooting is not one of the Spurs' strong suits. But, fortunately, the teams they are most likely to meet from here on out are either little better, or worse. I also made the point that, in the playoffs, the Spurs have stepped up that aspect of their game.


If a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Tony late in the game, they're going to start just fouling him. .
Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.


I hate this stupid "well, look what other people are doing" argument.
Right... how stupid of me, comparing the Spurs strengths and weaknesses to their opponents. It's all so obvious to me now that you put it to me that way. The Spurs compete in a vacuum, and only what they do on the court matters. It's those stupid coaches and analysts, always talking about match-ups with other teams. But it's my fault for being stupid enough to listen to them. Of course, I'm also way too stupid to ever use the word "crystallize" in a sentence.
(Rule of thumb: argue anything you want to, but don't call me stupid.)


Free throws are another thing, should we aspire to win it all (which I think it's safe saying we do), that we should be trying to be as good as possible at to give us one more thing we're better at than everyone else.
Well, I feel better now. At least I'm not the only one who is stupid. The players are just too stupid to figure out that they should be trying to be as good as possible. And the coaches and owners are too stupid to require them to practice shooting free throws, so that they can automatically be better than everyone else. I mean... that's it, right? You just have to be smart enough to get better at everything than everyone else, and you win? Brilliant!
(Did I mention the "Don't call me stupid" part?)

And now, my personal favorites:


"in pro sports if you do more things better than the other guy, you win"
AND
"It doesn't make me feel any better or make our chances of winning any better just because another team might suck at FTs like us."
How the hell can you put those two sentences right next to each other in the same post? Seriously. I know I'm stupid, but it seems to me that if the other team "sucks at FTs like us", that would be like, you know... better than if they were really good at shooting FTs.

So here is my question for you: If I say something about how Phoenix doesn't play defense, am I
a) smart for noticing something that the Spurs do better than the other guys, or
b) stupid for saying "look what other people are doing"?
See, I'm to stupid to understand the rules here.

(I should probably mention that I object to being called stupid.)

[SouthernFried]

Tony's sorta an enigma to me. I love him, I hate him...I just can't decide. Mebbe we should just be freinds.

Seriously, Tony's biggest problem ain't his free throws. It's his inconsistency. I've seen him where he can't miss a FT, then the exact opposite. That goes for his entire game.

I have to remind myself...this guy's like 22, right? Could explain a lot.

As far as being tired and losing your legs. C'mon...nobody runs around more than Manu, it doesn't affect his FT shooting %. And everyone else in the league runs around too. A starting point guard on a championship team should no way be hitting in the low 60's, percentage-wise. Tired legs or otherwise...hell, most high-school guards hit better.

I predict tho, that Tony and TD will step up in their FT shooting during these playoffs. Just because they're gonna get a lotta damn practice at it. If I were Seattle, I'd make damn sure of it.

I love Tony, except when I hate him. I don't imagine Tony is doing anything for Pop's hairline either.

Spurs in 5

[GSH]

As far as being tired and losing your legs. C'mon...nobody runs around more than Manu, it doesn't affect his FT shooting %.
I want to be very clear about what I said earlier:

I said that some of the bricks you see players toss in 4th quarters are due to tired legs. Not just Spurs players, but around the league. I think that most people would agree that players tend to shoot better with fresh legs, so I don't think there is anything too controversial about that particular statement.

I also said that Duncan spends the entire night with some huge guy (or two) leaning on him. And I think that has the same effect that it does on a professional boxer - it wears on his legs. Some nights you can see it more than others. I don't think there would be too much debate over that statement, either.

Now, as to whether the Spurs defensive efforts contribute to fatigue near the end of games, I definitely don't have any evidence. I believe that in order to play really good defense without committing a lot of fouls, a player has to have very good footwork. And I also think that there is a difference between running up and down the court, and bodying-up on defense.

I don't think it is out of the question that the game could be more tiring for a player who is getting leaned on all night, or for one who is playing very aggressive defense. My real point was that anything that affects the physical aspect of shooting free throws will affect the mental aspect as well. For most mere mortals, missed shots lower self-confidence; and that, in turn, causes more missed shots. If you believe that fatigue contributes at all, it is probably reasonable to assume that the Spurs might be more susceptible. I think there is a connection, but I don't have anything but my opinion to back that up. But think back on how many times you can remember the announcers talking about how the Spurs (as a group, or some individual player) were shooting some great percentage from the line, right up until the fourth quarter.

As for Manu's free throw shooting...
I can't say that I have hard proof, SouthernFried. But if you look at the below-average free throw shooting nights that Manu has had, it seems to me that most of them were either against tough teams where he had to defend extra hard, or on the second night of back-to-backs.

I also can't say for sure that he misses more of his free throws later in games, but it seems that way to me. He only missed 88 FT's in 74 games, but I remember him missing quite a few in 4th quarters, and I remember him missing several Technical FTs in the latter parts of games. That's pretty subjective, I know.

I feel pretty sure that the Spurs' players recognize that free throws are really important. I know they practice shooting them. And too many of the Spurs are tough, smart athletes for me to believe that they crack under pressure or allow their minds to wander that often. So you have to wonder what else it could be.

[SouthernFried]

GSH...with all due respect, it's not unique to the Spurs. I don't think the Spurs are more prone to fatigue and tired legs than any other team in the NBA. Manu may shoot less % in the 4th, or he may not...he still shoots mid-80% consistently for the year. He runs just as much, or more than Tony, as do most guards in the NBA who shoot better than Tony (which I think is about everyone?)

I'm sure the Spurs coaching staff works hard on FT's. They'd be idiots not too. The fact that Parker shot like 98 outta 100 shows he's workin' on it. The fact that he can't do it in a game shows something else. What that something else is, I don't know.

In my experience, FT shooting comes down to one thing. Repetition. Tired or not.

If Tony is shooting 100 FT's a day, he should shoot 1,000 a day. Every day. That is the only way I know how to increase FT%, and it has worked every time I've tried it.

If it's a mental thing...well, repetition can help that too.

Again, I have to keep remembering...Tony is only like 22. That is amazing. But, that does tend to support the mental aspects of his FT shooting.

Imho, Tony should be shooting 500 FTs when he wakes up. 500 FT's at lunch, and a 500 FT's before he gets tucked in. It will become so automatic for him, his mind wont be able to interfere, his muscle memory will override it. Ya, it'll take an hour and a half each time he does this...but, for several million a year, methinks that's not too much a sacrifice.

[waly.mg]

The problem is the Clutch FT

Tony have better % in the beggining than in the finish

[ducks]

if you do not care about practice why practice them

practice does improve them

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hahahhahaha Waly!!! That Signature Kills Me!! Hahahaha

[Brodels]

Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.

And Reggie is most likely going to make two free throws at the end of a game. Parker is another story.

You can spin it any way you want to, but teams will foul the Spurs at the end of close games. Teams will try to exploit the Spurs' weaknesses in the closing moments. And Tony is the ballhandler. He's also perhaps the worst free throw shooter among the players that regularly finish games. Tony will get fouled at the end of close games. And he'll make less free throws than many other point guard will in that situation.

It's the playoffs. Many games are going to be close. And the difference between going to the finals and going fishing can be a free throw converted or missed.

Parker has shown an inability to make free throws consistently at the end of games. Are you disagreeing with that? If you're not, the only conclusion is that he's a liability in those specific circumstances. If he's going to cost the Spurs 'free' points in important situations, he could cost them games. It's really that simple.


First of all, I never said it was good for Parker to be shooting .650 from the line. I responded to the comment that Tony is an offensive liability. You don't like my stats? How about this one? Who are the four best teams in the playoffs this year? Most people would say the Spurs, Suns, Pistons, and Heat. Everybody knows the Spurs can't shoot free throws. If they don't win the championship this year, they are probably going to lose it at the free throw line, right? Just how much better are the other three teams at shooting free throws? This is how the "big four" shot FT's in the regular season, and how they ranked in the league:

Team FT% Rank (out of 30 teams)
Heat .672 30
Spurs .724 26
Pistons .739 23
Suns .748 22

Yeah, but things change in the post-season don't they? I mean, the Spurs are probably a lot worse than those other "good" teams, now that the playoffs are here, right? So how do the "big four" stack up on FT% in the playoffs so far?

Team FT% Rank (out of 16 teams)
Heat .655 16
Suns .742 11
Spurs .755 8
Pistons .813 2

Kinda hard to believe, huh? A piss-poor, mentally-weak group like the Spurs, and still shooting free throws better than half the teams in the playoffs. I guess if it wasn't that raggedy-assed Tony Parker holding down their percentage, it would be somebody else, huh?

Those referring to Tony as an offensive liability are generally speaking of him being that at the end of close games only. It doesn't matter one bit how well your team free throw percentage compares to other teams if your primary ballhandler is a poor free throw shooter and he often has the ball in his hands at the end of games. Team free throw percentage simply doesn't factor in when you're talking about that specific situation.


I know it sucks to see guys miss free throws down the stretch. But it's a 48-minute game, and the ones at the end count the same 1 point as the ones at the beginning. The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game.

A point is indeed a point, but what happens at the beginning of games is different than what happens at the end of games. The Spurs can play solid and make free throws for 42 minutes, but if they're playing good teams, they can still be involved in close games. And the Spurs are more likely to get fouled at the end of games. The fouls in the closing moments of the fourth quarter are often intentional. The way in which teams go about committing fouls is simply different at different moments in the game. And a team's ability make free throws down the stretch can change an opponent's strategy. So it's not really the same.

You've done a good job of showing that teams can win even if they have a poor team free throw percentage. But you haven't really done anything to address the real point: Tony is likely to miss some free throws at the end of games, and missing those free throws could cost the Spurs a win.

At the beginning, a poor free throw shooter isn't as much of a liability. At the end, an ability to shoot free throws becomes much more important. If a player can't make most of his free throws at the end of a close game, he's a liability in that specific circumstance. That's the point you have to counter, and it's one that you're going to have a very difficult time with.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.


The difference is Reggie is about a 90% FT shooter, even in the clutch. He's won countless games, even in the playoffs, at the FT line.

Parker shoots about 60% on his FTs. He's a great offensive player for a possible 44 of 48 minutes, but the last 4 when it really counts he's a liability.

Remember hack-a-Tim, hack-a-Bowen? It's coming for Parker if he keeps bricking them.


The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game.

The problem is, historically in the playoffs the Spurs have had all kinds of problems with being offensively "solid and consistent" in fourth quarters.

The other problem is, the other legit contenders (Phoenix, Miami, Detroit) are just as solid and consistent as we are. So again, it's going to come down to the little things, like free throws. And anyone who has watched the Spurs shoot 50% as a team for a game should be worried about that.