my thoughts on the OKC/LA game 4

[Biggems]

The Thunder are completely raping the Lakers. They are outhustling and outshooting LA. However, I think part of that has to do with the home cookin the Thunder is getting. It is hard for the Lakers to be aggressive cause the refs are relentless with the whistles over every tiny bit of contact. I want the Thunder to obliterate the Lakers, but I hate when the refs make everything so one sided.

That being said, Artest cant make a shot and Kobe isnt even trying to shoot. On defense, they are leaving Durant wide open quite often and Westbrook is just completely breaking down whatever D the Lakers are trying to muster.

[DJ Mbenga]

son you are correct. when the refs swtich to the lakers when they are home this forum will explode. then when it switches back in game 6 people will call it fair and post LMAO threads. when its game 7 and its back to favoring the lakers people will explode again

[dbestpro]

Maybe this is Sterns way of telling Phil, the Mavs and Phx to shut up. Cry about the officials and prepare to go fishing. This way Stern doesn't have to fine or suspend anyone, but still gets the same effect.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

Lakers have edge in frustration, age and size. That is it right now. I dont know if okc can win in la but there ozzing confidence rite about now.

[mingus]

the Artest trade is looking like a mistake at this point. he's playing Durant well, but it think Ariza could've done that, while hitting a higher %.

[Biggems]

the Artest trade is looking like a mistake at this point. he's playing Durant well, but it think Ariza could've done that, while hitting a higher %.

it wasnt really a trade, they switched teams via free agency. but it might as well have been a trade

[Biggems]

the Lakers won the Championship with Ariza and had chemistry...they should have just paid him and kept the chemistry.

[Giuseppe]

the Artest trade is looking like a mistake at this point. he's playing Durant well, but it think Ariza could've done that, while hitting a higher %.

You still don't get it, mingus: It was Odom & Artest, OR Ariza. Buss made the correct choice.

[Giuseppe]

the Lakers won the Championship with Ariza and had chemistry...they should have just paid him and kept the chemistry.

& they'd a lost Odom & Artest.

Ariza was no great shakes this season. He was aimless.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The real mistake was locking up money in Walton and Vujacic, if not for them they coulda resigned Ariza and signed Artest.

[Lars]

Atleast they Artest for five years. He is a young man, he will develop.

[Giuseppe]

The real mistake was locking up money in Walton and Vujacic, if not for them they coulda resigned Ariza and signed Artest.

Ariza was no better than Walton & Vuj this season.

[Giuseppe]

Atleast they Artest for five years. He is a young man, he will develop.

Lars, yer sitting in the loser's field right now. You've no room, sonny.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Ariza was no better than Walton & Vuj this season.


Yeah but in the right role he was key, you know this. An Ariza Artest combo woulda been perfect at SF.

[Giuseppe]

Huh? They went after artest after Ariza decided not to sign with them. Ariza sucks on the Rockets and Artest sucks on the Lakers. In Hindsight the Lakers should have kept Ariza, who fit this team perfectly.

Nonsense. They went after Artest because he was linked to Odom. They gave Odom Artest instead of more money.

[Giuseppe]

Yeah but in the right role he was key, you know this. An Ariza Artest combo woulda been perfect at SF.

But, then they lose Odom & Artest and have only Ariza. Ariza helped the Rockets to not make the playoffs.

[dbestpro]

The speed of the Thunder is beating the size of LA.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But seriously, LA isn't suddenly a much better team with Ariza instead of Artest. Their problems go beyond which role player is better.

[dbestpro]

Walton almost breaks his back and his team mates just sit and yawn.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ariza's agent fucked them over..either way, I was extremely happy when Artest replaced him, and I still am..Artest may be a better player, but he makes the Lakers slow and kills their athleticism..

TBH though, Ariza shooting 47% from 3s in the playoffs was a massive anomaly and they probably couldn't have replaced that with any available "defensive stopper"..Artest could be shooting a lot better though, he kills their spacing..

As for the calls, I agree OKC got the home-biased benefit of the calls, but people need to understand that the Lakers get a ton of calls just by the officials allowing Artest to defend the way he does..he literally hugs and handchecks his defender on every play and gets away with most of it..if you take that away from him, he's an above average/average defender IMO..

The Lakers obviously have major problems either way though..no spacing/shooting, Kobe looks vulnerable, no bench at all, poor PG play..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But, then they lose Odom & Artest and have only Ariza. Ariza helped the Rockets to not make the playoffs.


That's not what im saying. If they didn't have so much money locked up in Vaj and Walton, they would have been able to keep Ariza AND sign Artest, enabling them to keep odom.

[Giuseppe]

But seriously, LA isn't suddenly a much better team with Ariza instead of Artest. Their problems go beyond which role player is better.

Their problems may be micro (OKC), or, they may be macro. We'll have to advance to prove the query. I honestly think it's OKC. We'd have the same problems with Denver. We need to advance and get to Utah & San Antoinio is that order.

[Giuseppe]

That's not what im saying. If they didn't have so much money locked up in Vaj and Walton, they would have been able to keep Ariza AND sign Artest, enabling them to keep odom.

We'll for Christ's sakes, Duncan, that's a 2-3 years hindsight.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well yeah, but this entire thread is hindsight :lol

[lefty]

Lakaluva'S thoughts here :

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150658&page=4

[mogrovejo]

Nonsense. They went after Artest because he was linked to Odom. They gave Odom Artest instead of more money.

Artest and Ariza are making the same money. Even if Ariza wanted a little more, he'd have settled for a smaller contract in terms of years - now they have Artest in the books for 5 more seasons - and he's getting worse quickly every year. They preferred Artest to Ariza, like most Lakers fans. Big mistake.


The refs have been pretty good - that reversed call on Kobe's travel was their biggest mistake. People are just trying to find justifications because they were too deep into the Lakers kool-aid to see this coming.

[peteee]

That's not what im saying. If they didn't have so much money locked up in Vaj and Walton, they would have been able to keep Ariza AND sign Artest, enabling them to keep odom.
They didn't have full bird rights for Ariza last summer, or even early bird rights. TO re-sign Ariza they had to use their MLE, which they thought could be better used on Artest and they did so later. I don't think Buss is such a scrooge that would sacrifice a chance to upgrade his squad for some financial reason only.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They didn't have full bird rights for Ariza last summer, or even early bird rights. TO re-sign Ariza they had to use their MLE, which they thought could be better used on Artest and they did so later. I don't think Buss is such a scrooge that would sacrifice a chance to upgrade his squad for some financial reason only.


Pretty sure they did (I thought that you have full bird rights to any player you trade for).

[DJ Mbenga]

my god you guys need to reminded of the story? lakers said yo ariza we want you but if you think you are worth more than the MLE go find it cause thats what we will offer you. so he did and then artest came on the market and he said "hell yeah ill sign for the MLE". so they said fuck it lets sign him. then ariza said oh shit nobody wants to give me more than the MLE. well fuck it lets to go houston.

[bostonguy]

The fact that the Lakers couldn't pull off any trades with about 10 million in expirings is beyond pathetic.

[Mel_13]

They didn't have full bird rights for Ariza last summer, or even early bird rights. TO re-sign Ariza they had to use their MLE, which they thought could be better used on Artest and they did so later. I don't think Buss is such a scrooge that would sacrifice a chance to upgrade his squad for some financial reason only.

Lakers held full Bird rights on Ariza. They could have signed him to any amount up to the max with using any part of the MLE.

[Giuseppe]

Lakers held full Bird rights on Ariza. They could have signed him to any amount up to the max with using any part of the MLE.

But, then they'd a lost Odom & Artest. They owed Odom big money because he was key in delivering Number 15. Buss told Odom: you can have the money, or, Artest. You can one or the other, but, not both. Odom chose Artest.

Ariza bombed in Houston.

We're tied 2-2 going back to California with HC.

[mogrovejo]

But, then they'd a lost Odom & Artest. They owed Odom big money because he was key in delivering Number 15. Buss told Odom: you can have the money, or, Artest. You can one or the other, but, not both. Odom chose Artest.

Ariza bombed in Houston.

We're tied 2-2 going back to California with HC.

:lol I mean, are you serious?

[Giuseppe]

:lol I mean, are you serious?

As a heart attack.

[hitmanyr2k]

As long as the Thunder keep attacking the rim and take care of their defensive boards they will not only stay competitive with the Lakers they'll have a great chance of beating them. Those two things are the key ingredient for this team. Not only because it limits LA's 2nd shots (which killed the Thunder in Game 1 and 2) but also because when the Thunder take care of their boards and get out on the break they run the Lakers ragged. LA's transition defense is horrendous. They can't keep up with those youngsters flying up and down the court.

And anytime the Thunder wing players attack the rim they draw a Laker big man challenging the shot which frees up other Thunder players to hit the offensive glass for easy putbacks. I've lost count how many times I've seen this happen in the last 2 games. They have to take the same kind of play on the road. If they do that and keep the game close (where all the pressure is on LA) they'll have a great chance to steal it just like Game 2.

[milkshakeballa]

You are incorrect Culby.

The Lakers told Ariza to look around the market to get his value...but they had NO intention of signing him. Mitch's plan A WAS Artest and his plan B was Ariza.

Even IF we had signed Ariza, LO would NOT have left LA. He has business here. He LOVES it here. No chance he would have left.

[mogrovejo]

I hated the Artest and Sheed signings for LA and Boston, but I don't fault Mitch and Danny entirely; they did what 99% of their fans, who pay their salaries, thought it was right.

[Giuseppe]

You are incorrect Culby.

The Lakers told Ariza to look around the market to get his value...but they had NO intention of signing him. Mitch's plan A WAS Artest and his plan B was Ariza.

Even IF we had signed Ariza, LO would NOT have left LA. He has business here. He LOVES it here. No chance he would have left.

Exactly. They wanted no part of Ariza. They did not want to alienate Odom by letting Artest go past by screwing around with Ariza.

Sure, you can say it now that Odom would not have left, but, there was no risk by giving Odom what he wanted instead of money (Artest) and dropping Ariza off in Bakersfield. And Ariza crapped out in TX.

[Giuseppe]

Wallace is coming around now in the playoffs. He's hit some shots Vs the Heat that called for a double take from the recliner. Squared up, quick release, center cut the cyclinder.

[mogrovejo]

The problem isn't hitting or not hitting shots. I never cared for his shooting; never worried me. Pretty sure he'll hit shots at a better rate in the post-season. The problem is that he's too slow for today's game and doesn't rebound - which is a bigger problem considering the Celtics big man rotation already have 2 slow guys + 2 average rebounders.

[Giuseppe]

Aside from the Thunder, and possibly the Nuggets who else isn't "slow?" You know where everybody is going to be with Orlando & Cleveland. Everybody else is marking time.

[milkshakeballa]

Exactly. They wanted no part of Ariza. They did not want to alienate Odom by letting Artest go past by screwing around with Ariza.

Sure, you can say it now that Odom would not have left, but, there was no risk by giving Odom what he wanted instead of money (Artest) and dropping Ariza off in Bakersfield. And Ariza crapped out in TX.

Agreed. But we can say the chances of LO leaving were slim to nil.

And Ariza went into a situation that was not suited for him as has been discussed on here ad naseum.

If he was on the Lakers he would be an EXCELLENT role player and would be impacting games more than Artest is 10 fold IMO.

[Giuseppe]

Agreed. But we can say the chances of LO leaving were slim to nil.

And Ariza went into a situation that was not suited for him as has been discussed on here ad naseum.

If he was on the Lakers he would be an EXCELLENT role player and would be impacting games more than Artest is 10 fold IMO.

All of that is conjecture, Milk.

You'd a been the first one crying the blues if we'd a lost Odom and Artest and had to beg and overpay Ariza to come back.

The shower thing with Kobe, Artest wanting that ring (Ariza was sated ring wise), Odom beholden to Artest to stand up with him after ringing.

It's not over yet. We're being tested. Severely. It's a two month ordeal, and we're already close to an ELE (extinction level event). Let's see what Artest and his tights Odom are made of.

If we're vanquished by the Thunder then we can conduct a port mortem, but, let's get back to California and make our stand first.

[Jacob1983]

The Thunder have to win game 5 in order to have a chance at winning the series in my opinion. They don't need to give anything to the Lakers. They need to keep anal raping the Lakers and the rapist until their assholes are bloody red. Kevin Durant needs to keep on being a stud and make shots and get to the FT line. If the Thunder crap out in game 5, it's over for them.

[Halberto]

All of that is conjecture, Milk.

You'd a been the first one crying the blues if we'd a lost Odom and Artest and had to beg and overpay Ariza to come back.

The shower thing with Kobe, Artest wanting that ring (Ariza was sated ring wise), Odom beholden to Artest to stand up with him after ringing.

It's not over yet. We're being tested. Severely. It's a two month ordeal, and we're already close to an ELE (extinction level event). Let's see what Artest and his tights Odom are made of.

If we're vanquished by the Thunder then we can conduct a port mortem, but, let's get back to California and make our stand first.

This post is full of WTF.

1) We'd a.... You'd a.... come on dude. You can't be that dumb.

2) I really don't understand what you meant when you said "sated"

3) Extinction level event is not a term, it's a title from one of Busta Rhyme's albums.

4)port mortem? Do you mean post-mortem?

[LnGrrrR]

The problem is that he's too slow for today's game and doesn't rebound - which is a bigger problem considering the Celtics big man rotation already have 2 slow guys + 2 average rebounders.

Who's the other average rebounder besides Big Baby? Shelden? I don't really count him as a part of our playoff rotation.

[Giuseppe]

This post is full of WTF.

1) We'd a.... You'd a.... come on dude. You can't be that dumb.

2) I really don't understand what you meant when you said "sated"

3) Extinction level event is not a term, it's a title from one of Busta Rhyme's albums.

4)port mortem? Do you mean post-mortem?

1. Horseshit.

2. I'm saying Ariza already got getting a ring out of his system. Artest still hadn't gotten his. Ipso facto Artest would be hungrier, more possessed of the idea of ringage.

3. It is too a term. It's from the movie "Deep Impact." tee, hee.

4. Of course I mean post mortem. Use your head, man.