Najera?

[KenziE]

didnt see what he did to manu anybody has the video? and what exactly happend?

[Biggems]

najera is a piece of shit scumbag.....he did a dirty foul like this on either Rose or Anderson just before the Lakers series....in fact he and juwan howard were playing dirty that series.

[carina_gino20]

Najera just doing what he was supposed to do.

Manu was going up for a layup and Najera grabbed Manu's shoulder and sent him to the floor.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Horse collar on Manu. Piece of shit should be suspended for game 5 too.

[smrattler]

Pussy move.

[NewJerSpur]

It was a horse collar.

[DespЏrado]

In terms of hard playoff fouls it wasn't the worst in the world. But it was a foul on Manu followed by Najera reaching around Manu's neck and and throwing him to the ground by his shoulder.

Flagrant 2 was warranted because things were really getting chippy out there. I do think a couple of the flagrant 1s might be overturned later.

[HarlemHeat37]

What annoys me more is that it seems like Carlisle sent him in to send a message..that's definitely what it looks like..it was the first thing and only thing he did for the entire game..bush league..

[baseline bum]

Najera grabbed Manu by the neck and threw him to the floor. I hope he's back Tuesday, shooting bad threes again like in game 2.

[thispego]

He was sent in by the mavs to take someone out to try to save the series for Dallas. Dirty pool, Carlisle, dirty pool

[Trimble87]

what annoys me more is that it seems like carlisle sent him in to send a message..that's definitely what it looks like..it was the first thing and only thing he did for the entire game..bush league..

+1

[austN Spur]

FTP

he fell for a fake and decided to yank manu down from his around his neck.

manu got up and sank the ft's. the worse part is because of the mavs dirty desperate plays the refs called some weak ass flagrants on the spurs

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

In terms of hard playoff fouls it wasn't the worst in the world. But it was a foul on Manu followed by Najera reaching around Manu's neck and and throwing him to the ground by his shoulder.

Flagrant 2 was warranted because things were really getting chippy out there. I do think a couple of the flagrant 1s might be overturned later.

It was a flagrant two because he grabbed him by the head and threw him down after the foul was called (whistle blown). Dead ball flagrant.

Dallas radio guys are saying that Carlisle sent him in to send a message to next Spur to go into the paint :td Carlisle and Najera need their asses nailed to the wall for this one.

[baseline bum]

Man, it's bullshit that Blair got called for a flagrant right after when he hit FUCKING BALL on Kidd's drive. I hate how the Spurs got punished for Dallas making a dirty play.

[TampaDude]

What annoys me more is that it seems like Carlisle sent him in to send a message..that's definitely what it looks like..it was the first thing and only thing he did for the entire game..bush league..

Well, Stern is gonna send Carlisle a message: "You'll be a man short for Game 5." :lol

[NewJerSpur]

What annoys me more is that it seems like Carlisle sent him in to send a message..that's definitely what it looks like..it was the first thing and only thing he did for the entire game..bush league..

I hope that's not the case, but you can't put it past any coach in desperation mode. I want to think that he told Najera to go in there and play physical and Najera just took it too far. He was far as hell out of that play and had no chance of blocking the shot. His rep isn't getting any cleaner.

[ohmwrecker]

Najera is a piece of shit. He's worthless as a basketball player. This is the only thing he's good for.

[NewJerSpur]

Man, it's bullshit that Blair got called for a flagrant right after when he hit FUCKING BALL on Kidd's drive. I hate how the Spurs got punished for Dallas making a dirty play.

At first, it did seem like one of those calls to get the game back in order, but the slash down and the fact Djuan connected with Kidd's face made it an automatic. Still much less malicious than Najera.

[scott]

Some of you fans have gotten as pussy as the NBA. That's was a good old fashion hard playoff foul. Same as the ones the Spurs got called flagrants for. That's why the playoffs are about - I love it when it gets chippy, especially because the Spurs have the toughness to win most of those games. I'll take McDyess and Blair in a rough game over Haywood and Dampier any day.

[Spurs Brazil]

Dirk threw a elbow at Blair

[SpursTillTheEnd]

CLwhy_5JEUQ

[KenziE]

thanks peeps .... yeah baby spurs in 5 ! drive for 5 !

[NewJerSpur]

You still can't wrap a guy around the neck and twist him to the ground....it's dangerous which is why the rule is there.

[Stringer_Bell]

Man, it's bullshit that Blair got called for a flagrant right after when he hit FUCKING BALL on Kidd's drive. I hate how the Spurs got punished for Dallas making a dirty play.

I agree, but the refs have to be extra vigilant to make sure there's no war of attrition. HOWEVER, this is the Spurs...we don't play that dirty shit, we do it the right way. We won in spite of it tho, and Manu still hit that giant 3 pointer...so it's all good. :toast

[scott]

HOWEVER, this is the Spurs...we don't play that dirty shit, we do it the right way.

Delusional.

We are a dirty team. Acknowledge it.

[exstatic]

Some of you fans have gotten as pussy as the NBA. That's was a good old fashion hard playoff foul. Same as the ones the Spurs got called flagrants for. That's why the playoffs are about - I love it when it gets chippy, especially because the Spurs have the toughness to win most of those games. I'll take McDyess and Blair in a rough game over Haywood and Dampier any day.

Sorry, scott. I agree with a lot of your takes, but not this one. The whistle had blown, and he then horse collared him and threw him to the ground. The important thing that makes it a flagrant is that there was no play on the ball. He just went straight to the head and neck.

[EmptyMan]

I'm just surprised no one went directly for Manu's nose with a haymaker. There was tha tone play with Butler I think, but it wasn't that bad.

I thought for sure that would be Terry's first objective out of the gates.

[mexpurs21]

Its shameful that Nájera is mexican like me, too bad he wont play in
game 5, cuz putting Nájera on the floor gives advantage to my Spurs, Nájera is a worthless piece of crap on the basketball court, there are much better "mexicans" out there that could end up in the NBA.

[Borosai]

Najera is trash.

[easjer]

Dayam. Just saw the replay and Pop looked like he was gonna kill someone. Yeesh.

[scott]

Sorry, scott. I agree with a lot of your takes, but not this one. The whistle had blown, and he then horse collared him and threw him to the ground. The important thing that makes it a flagrant is that there was no play on the ball. He just went straight to the head and neck.

It's not the call to eject him that bothers me, it's the feigned outrage. I think it's great Dallas sent in a good to make a hard foul. That's playoff basketball. The Spurs only started winning championships when we got the balls to foul hard ourselves.

I'm not saying we should get ourselves ejected, or that Najera shouldn't have gotten ejected, but we shouldn't act like Najera just spread the Ebola virus on the city of San Antonio. He made a hard foul, he got his punishment. Time to move on. (See: Horry, Robert.)

[NRHector]

and that dumbass went to high school here in SA

[Buddy Holly]

Manu was going up for a layup and Najera grabbed Manu's shoulder and sent him to the floor.

How would you describe a gun shot to the knee? Similar to a bee sting?

[thispego]

Some of you fans have gotten as pussy as the NBA. That's was a good old fashion hard playoff foul. Same as the ones the Spurs got called flagrants for. That's why the playoffs are about - I love it when it gets chippy, especially because the Spurs have the toughness to win most of those games. I'll take McDyess and Blair in a rough game over Haywood and Dampier any day.

Yeah I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing if Manu was injured on the play :rolleyes fuckin moron.

[Hooks]

Najera copied Roy Williams, dirty Dallass players.

[cornbread]

What annoys me more is that it seems like Carlisle sent him in to send a message

If that's true, Manu is the wrong guy to pull that shit on.

[TampaDude]

Enjoy your game off, Najera...and the big hole in your wallet...Stern's gonna drop the fucking hammer on him.

[thispego]

It's not the call to eject him that bothers me, it's the feigned outrage. I think it's great Dallas sent in a good to make a hard foul. That's playoff basketball. The Spurs only started winning championships when we got the balls to foul hard ourselves.

I'm not saying we should get ourselves ejected, or that Najera shouldn't have gotten ejected, but we shouldn't act like Najera just spread the Ebola virus on the city of San Antonio. He made a hard foul, he got his punishment. Time to move on. (See: Horry, Robert.)

Horry's hip check was all on him. That came from his own competetiveness and being pissed off about losing. Plus Nash embellished the fall, noone gets hurt from getting hip checked, people break necks when thy get horse collared. Now stfu

[TampaDude]

If that's true, Manu is the wrong guy to pull that shit on.

WERD...when will they ever learn? Don't make Manu angry!!! :lol

[NewJerSpur]

Najera copied Roy Williams, dirty Dallass players.

:lol:lol:lol

Nice touch.

[ohmwrecker]

It's not the call to eject him that bothers me, it's the feigned outrage. I think it's great Dallas sent in a good to make a hard foul. That's playoff basketball. The Spurs only started winning championships when we got the balls to foul hard ourselves.

I'm not saying we should get ourselves ejected, or that Najera shouldn't have gotten ejected, but we shouldn't act like Najera just spread the Ebola virus on the city of San Antonio. He made a hard foul, he got his punishment. Time to move on. (See: Horry, Robert.)

What? I can't hear you from down in that hole you've dug yourself into.

[scott]

Horry's hip check was all on him. That came from his own competetiveness and being pissed off about losing. Plus Nash embellished the fall, noone gets hurt from getting hip checked, people break necks when thy get horse collared. Now stfu

Point. Missed. Keep trying, Hawking.

[scott]

What? I can't hear you from down in that hole you've dug yourself into.

What hole is that? What part of me calling my fellow Spurs fans out for being oversensitive hypocrites are you failing to comprehend?

[easjer]

Surely no one needs to explain the difference between a good hard foul (Blair on Kidd) vs foul with intent to injure (Najera's hook around the neck).

Surely not.

[Cry Havoc]

It's not the call to eject him that bothers me, it's the feigned outrage. I think it's great Dallas sent in a good to make a hard foul. That's playoff basketball. The Spurs only started winning championships when we got the balls to foul hard ourselves.

I'm not saying we should get ourselves ejected, or that Najera shouldn't have gotten ejected, but we shouldn't act like Najera just spread the Ebola virus on the city of San Antonio. He made a hard foul, he got his punishment. Time to move on. (See: Horry, Robert.)

You're wrong. Accept it.

That was way over the line as a hard playoff foul goes. Grabbing someone around the neck is EXTREMELY dangerous.


Point. Missed. Keep trying, Hawking.

Coming from the guy with Mr. Microsoft in his sig, that's suuuuch an insult. :lmao

[Cherry]

didnt see what he did to manu anybody has the video? and what exactly happend?

He grabbed Ginobili by the throat and threw him to the ground very hard.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Some of you fans have gotten as pussy as the NBA. That's was a good old fashion hard playoff foul. Same as the ones the Spurs got called flagrants for. That's why the playoffs are about - I love it when it gets chippy, especially because the Spurs have the toughness to win most of those games. I'll take McDyess and Blair in a rough game over Haywood and Dampier any day.

Yeah, we're getting soft because we are pissed about Najera doing a take down (horse collar) that is banned in a sport played with guys with pads and helmets.

:rolleyes

[SpursTillTheEnd]

This is not the first time someone has tried dirty moves to take manu out, it never works tho. The spurs make teams loose there composure, the spurs are what you call a dynasty

[pjjrfan]

I don't think Carlise sent Najera to hurt anyone but definitly to throw his body around, but how about Pop, man I thought Najera's life was in danger the way Pop charged out there, but he got sane just in time. Gotta love this guy.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Some of you fans have gotten as pussy as the NBA. That's was a good old fashion hard playoff foul. Same as the ones the Spurs got called flagrants for. That's why the playoffs are about - I love it when it gets chippy, especially because the Spurs have the toughness to win most of those games. I'll take McDyess and Blair in a rough game over Haywood and Dampier any day.

You need to watch the entire game again.

[Shastafarian]

I wonder if scott would maintain his position if Manu had gotten hurt and was forced to miss the rest of the series/playoffs.

[wut]

Najera always pulls this kinda crap, league should ban players like him who CONSISTENTLY play not just dirty or questionable but outright dangerous.

[exstatic]

Surely no one needs to explain the difference between a good hard foul (Blair on Kidd) vs foul with intent to injure (Najera's hook around the neck).

Surely not.

Apparently, scott does.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm just surprised no one went directly for Manu's nose with a haymaker. There was tha tone play with Butler I think, but it wasn't that bad.

I thought for sure that would be Terry's first objective out of the gates.

That will be Terry when the Spurs are winning by double figures with 3-4 minutes left in the game.

[Supergirl]

ok, so Najera got a flagrant 2? which is ejection and automatic suspension for 1 game?

who else got flagrant foul calls?

[thispego]

:lmao @ scott owning himself in this thread!!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't think Carlise sent Najera to hurt anyone but definitly to throw his body around, but how about Pop, man I thought Najera's life was in danger the way Pop charged out there, but he got sane just in time. Gotta love this guy.

Here's the thing though.... listening to the radio here in Dallas, the guys calling the game for Dallas all acknowledge that Rick sent Najera in there to send a message...

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Basically I expect the F1 on Blair to disappear by tomorrow afternoon.

Also, if you looked at Najera's expression after the call I think he was feeling rather bad about it - I'm 99% sure he was sent in to play physical in the paint against drives but took it too hard on Manu. If you look at the entire game, Carslile didn't have any reason to bring Najera in because they were doing well playing their game. The only explanation is that he was sent in as another body free of fouls and able to commit some hard ones when needed. He just didnt contain himself and made a dumbass call.

[scott]

You're wrong. Accept it.

That was way over the line as a hard playoff foul goes. Grabbing someone around the neck is EXTREMELY dangerous.



Coming from the guy with Mr. Microsoft in his sig, that's suuuuch an insult. :lmao

What am I wrong about? Thinking the sport is over-pussified? If any Spur had committed the same foul, you'd be calling Mavs fans pussies for crying the way you all are. <Insert "no we wouldn't" rebuttal that you know deep down isn't true here>.

Like I said, the foul warranted the ejection. But to act like these fouls are a travesty of man-kind and should be criminalized is just silly. I can't really be "wrong" about liking physical basketball that includes some hard fouls, since it's my opinion. You are free to disagree.

[NewJerSpur]

This is not the first time someone has tried dirty moves to take manu out, it never works tho. The spurs make teams loose there composure, the spurs are what you call a dynasty

Yeah, Manu's not being Manu if he isn't getting under the oppositions skin and tempting them to lay him out....ask Denver.

[scott]

Yeah, we're getting soft because we are pissed about Najera doing a take down (horse collar) that is banned in a sport played with guys with pads and helmets.

:rolleyes

Also a pussy rule in football, thanks.

[NewJerSpur]

The play went over the borderline of physicality into violence. That was an MMA move, not a foul. Najera has also done this kind of stuff before.

[austN Spur]

What hole is that? What part of me calling my fellow Spurs fans out for being oversensitive hypocrites are you failing to comprehend?

pussies was the word used.

I wasn't crying about the play i was calling him names cuz i felt it was deserved. either way :flag:

[NewJerSpur]

ok, so Najera got a flagrant 2? which is ejection and automatic suspension for 1 game?

who else got flagrant foul calls?

Blair with a Flagrant 1.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He grabbed the man and threw him down by the throat.

That is dangerous shit.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Also a pussy rule in football, thanks.

Yep, not like guys haven't blown out tendons, ligaments, knees, etc. that were on the receiving end of that. Who gives a shit about the safety of the players?

[scott]

I wonder if scott would maintain his position if Manu had gotten hurt and was forced to miss the rest of the series/playoffs.

See 2001 Playoffs and Derek Anderson. You would have found me on this site saying the exact same thing. Unfortunate we lost him, but that's playoff basketball.

[Shastafarian]

See 2001 Playoffs and Derek Anderson. You would have found me on this site saying the exact same thing. Unfortunate we lost him, but that's playoff basketball.

:rollin

I don't care when another team intentionally injures one of our best players. Why? Oh, it's playoff basketball!

[easjer]

Dude, liking physical play is a far cry from really dangerous situations.

That is dangerous. And it's worse if it's intentional. You cannot allow shit like that. I don't care if Blair does it. I don't care if Timmy does it. It's dangerous and carries a high risk of serious injury to a player. It's not right.

[clubalien]

I don't think Carlise sent Najera to hurt anyone but definitly to throw his body around, but how about Pop, man I thought Najera's life was in danger the way Pop charged out there, but he got sane just in time. Gotta love this guy.

did pop or any of the players leave the ben ch. Thee used to be a rule if you leave the bench you are banned from the next game.

How many spurs should be suspended for the next game because of this play?

[thispego]

scott wants games played to the death, highest score at the end of 48 minutes isn't doing it for him anymore :rolleyes LMAO

[BanditHiro]

did pop or any of the players leave the ben ch. Thee used to be a rule if you leave the bench you are banned from the next game.

How many spurs should be suspended for the next game because of this play?

none left pop immediately told them to go back and he went to go talk to the ref

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Hard foul, get up, hit your free throws, end of story.

Manu's been fouled much harder in his career, specially before arriving to the NBA. If Carslile wanted to send a message, he chose the wrong target. Just ask K-Mart, Carmelo or the (RIP) Sonics.

The worst part of it was that the refs in a bizarre fashion started to call make-up fouls on the Spurs.

[GSH]

He grabbed Manu from behind, by the throat. You can hurt a player badly that way. And it wasn't just a grab - he pulled him backwards by the throat and then continued his motion and drug Manu to the floor. Pretty much the definition of a flagrant II.

The thing that really pisses me off is that Kidd did exactly the same thing to George Hill in the last game, and the refs didn't call the flagrant. In a way Kidd's foul was worse, because Hill was running pretty much full speed, and Kidd horse collared him - yanked him down backwards. It was a play that would get you in trouble in the NFL. No place for it on a basketball court.

It's all Najera is good for. I'd like to see him suspended for a game, and for tonight to turn out to be his last game in the NBA.

[scott]

Yep, not like guys haven't blown out tendons, ligaments, knees, etc. that were on the receiving end of that. Who gives a shit about the safety of the players?

If we are talking about football, then football is a violent game where people get seriously injured from perfect form tackles. Horse tackle injuries resulted in two high-profile injuries, neither career-threatening, that caused the rule to be established. If you've ever played football as a defender and you know the object is to tackle the ball carrier and you tackle someone the best way you can. Horse collars tackles (in football) are marginally more dangerous than grabbing someones jersey from behind and pulling them down (perfectly legal).

[BanditHiro]

See 2001 Playoffs and Derek Anderson. You would have found me on this site saying the exact same thing. Unfortunate we lost him, but that's playoff basketball.

this is not playoff basketball at all. Dejuan supposed flagrant foul is a playoff hard foul so was RJs this was just malicious if he had not wrapped his arm and just let go Ginobili would have suffered a concussion.

stop trolling you have no point. but i agree horse collar tackle is gay just another way for the players union to get another foul named after a dallas cowboys

[Crookshanks]

did pop or any of the players leave the ben ch. Thee used to be a rule if you leave the bench you are banned from the next game.

How many spurs should be suspended for the next game because of this play?

The coaches did a good job keeping everyone on the bench. But then again, Spurs players are more intelligent and disciplined. Pop, however, looked like he was gonna personally strangle Najara. :lol

[scott]

:rollin

I don't care when another team intentionally injures one of our best players. Why? Oh, it's playoff basketball!

Intentional? I don't think Najera attempted to intentionally injure Manu, and maybe that is where we have a difference of opinion. I believe he was sent into send a message, yes. I believe Najera wanted to foul him hard, yes. I don't think Najera intended to injure Manu. If he was, he could have picked a much more effective method.

Intent is a serious thing. I believe Najera wanted to inflict some pain on Manu, but not injure him. I'm okay with wanting to inflict pain.

[NewJerSpur]

I was holding my breadth went Manu laid down for a few minutes....actually, my heart stopped. Not sure if Najera will be back for Game 5.

[manu the best]

.. najera just showrd what the dallas mavericks are made of .. just dirty piece of shit ..

[Spurs7794]

What am I wrong about? Thinking the sport is over-pussified? If any Spur had committed the same foul, you'd be calling Mavs fans pussies for crying the way you all are. <Insert "no we wouldn't" rebuttal that you know deep down isn't true here>.

Like I said, the foul warranted the ejection. But to act like these fouls are a travesty of man-kind and should be criminalized is just silly. I can't really be "wrong" about liking physical basketball that includes some hard fouls, since it's my opinion. You are free to disagree.

I woulda thought that was incredibly outa character of our team to do. Horry's hipcheck was not that dirty, it was a dirty play but it wasnt dangerous.

I did LOVE Jefferson and Blair's fouls. Both went for the ball (but still got called for flagrants), and Jefferson...man we haven't fouled Dirk hard like that in our last two playoff series with Dirk.

[Mixability]

and then the fucker tries to smack a camera out of a fans hand......

leave it to a Mav.....

[scott]

I do want to clarify one thing as a former resident of Dallas county. Mavs fans are douchebags and will be simultaneously looking for a) another Mav to commit a similar foul while b) acting like a Spur just killed their mother every time one breathes on a Mav.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

One huge thing yall haven't mentioned is that when najers got ejected and was leaving the game he was givving mav fans hig fives and smiling

[GSH]

See 2001 Playoffs and Derek Anderson. You would have found me on this site saying the exact same thing. Unfortunate we lost him, but that's playoff basketball.

You've made two of the dumest fucking comments of the season - in one easy to read thread.

Even Charles Barkley, who is fond of talking about playoff fouls, said that foul was ugly. Never mind Derek Anderson, or anyone else. I'd like to see your dumb ass out on a hardwood floor take that kind of shot, and see if you think it is flagrant. It's easy to talk about playoff basketball when it's not your poo-covered nose that's broken.

Why do you think the NFL outlawed the horse collar, Einstein? Because it's that dangerous. Even Najera is smart enough to know that. To bad you aren't.

[EricB]

Listening to Dallas radio now, shock of shocks, the radio host and callers though what Najera did was "fantastic and long overdue"

He's pretty much being hailed as a hero.

Its absolutely sickening....

[EricB]

Also, playoff basketball is hard and tough yes.

But grabbing a guy by his neck and throwing him to the floor is dirty and cheap.

Not playoff basketball.

[scott]

You've made two of the dumest fucking comments of the season - in one easy to read thread.

Even Charles Barkley, who is fond of talking about playoff fouls, said that foul was ugly. Never mind Derek Anderson, or anyone else. I'd like to see your dumb ass out on a hardwood floor take that kind of shot, and see if you think it is flagrant. It's easy to talk about playoff basketball when it's not your poo-covered nose that's broken.

What exactly is your point here? That it's worse because Manu has a broken nose? Or that because other basketball players think it was ugly then it's worth the overreaction?

I've already stated it was a flagrant foul warranting ejection. My contention is with the fact that this move, which in any other sport would be a similar foul but not that big of a deal, is worthy of outrage in basketball. Hence my "pussification" statement.

Manu got up, sunk his FTs, and finished the game like a champ. I wonder what his opinion of the foul is. My guess is "hard foul, move on."

[rayray2k8]

So... what you're saying is that since Manu wasn't hurt severally that the foul was okay? Am I hearing this right?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Listening to Dallas radio now, shock of shocks, the radio host and callers though what Najera did was "fantastic and long overdue"

He's pretty much being hailed as a hero.

Its absolutely sickening....

That's typical mav's homerism.. that's why they will probably never win anything. They can't do self-critism. They can't grow.

[scott]

So... what you're saying is that since Manu wasn't hurt severally that the foul was okay? Am I hearing this right?

I'm saying that I don't believe there was intent to injure him. A player can get injured on any foul, that doesn't inherently make those fouls criminal. Had Manu got injured it definitely would have sucked, but I still would not have believed Najera intended to injure him.

I also believe the risk of injury on that play is being severly overstated in this forum.

RJ's hard chop to Dirk's face could have broken his nose, yet the SBC Center cheered when he went to the floor. I'm not saying the fouls were equal, but that is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

[jmard5]

That was a dangerous foul. 6 inches higher, Najera could have had wrapped his hands at Manu's nasal fracture. Imagine the extent of injury if that was the case.

Najera deserves to be ejected and suspended.

[EricB]

Najera was in there for one reason and one reason only.

To hurt or flagrant foul someone.

Period. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

[NewJerSpur]

RJ came straight down on Dirk's arms to try and prevent the shot attempt, Najera was trying to make sure Manu wasn't left standing.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

This foul reminds me of the 2005 series against Seattle. When the Sonics backs were to the wall, remember that clothesline of Manu? I forget who the fucker was that did it. Its another sign that the Mavs are done.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

This foul reminds me of the 2005 series against Seattle. When the Sonics backs were to the wall, remember that clothesline of Manu? I forget who the fucker was that did it. Its another sign that the Mavs are done.

There were a few... I think the hardest one in that series was courtesy of Danny Fortson.

[ajGambino]

Good to see the Spurs in control after Najera had thrown Manu down.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

There were a few... I think the hardest one in that series was courtesy of Danny Fortson.

Right, that's who it was.

Carlisle is toast. He doesn't have a clue how to get his guys to stop our guys from getting in the paint.

What a difference a year makes.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What annoys me more is that it seems like Carlisle sent him in to send a message..that's definitely what it looks like..it was the first thing and only thing he did for the entire game..bush league..

I think this is exactly what was done. Cuban walked to the back right after he went through the tunnel and was grinning at the fans. Fuck Cuban and fuck Najera.

[rayray2k8]

I'm saying that I don't believe there was intent to injure him. A player can get injured on any foul, that doesn't inherently make those fouls criminal. Had Manu got injured it definitely would have sucked, but I still would not have believed Najera intended to injure him.

I also believe the risk of injury on that play is being severly overstated in this forum.

RJ's hard chop to Dirk's face could have broken his nose, yet the SBC Center cheered when he went to the floor. I'm not saying the fouls were equal, but that is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

I actually heard that and was surprised by it.. I get your point, but it's the AT&T center. :P

[GSH]

I'm saying that I don't believe there was intent to injure him.

I also believe the risk of injury on that play is being severly overstated in this forum.




Simple question - Why do you think the NFL outlawed the horse collar?


It really doesn't make a rat's ass what you think the intent was. If you grab a guy from behind while he's up in the air, and drag him down by the throat, it's a dirty fucking play. And the fact that Manu got up like a warrior doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. It's like shooting into a crowd and accidentally not hitting anyone - then insisting it wasn't dangerous, since no one was killed. Fucking simian logic. (Don't bother looking it up... simian means "monkey".)

[Sobe_Kucks]

Right, that's who it was.

Carlisle is toast. He doesn't have a clue how to get his guys to stop our guys from getting in the paint.

What a difference a year makes.

+1 Pop has his critics (myself included) but he is schooling Carlisle this series. Just in minutes ditrubution, Carlisle is doing a poor job and just may have coached himself out of a job. :flag:

[Dr. Gonzo]

RJ's hard chop to Dirk's face could have broken his nose, yet the SBC Center cheered when he went to the floor. I'm not saying the fouls were equal, but that is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

Yes everybody there cheered, I know I did, because that wasn't a cheap shot. It can be argued that he was going after the ball. THAT is a good hard foul. What Najera did was a cheap bitch move.

[scott]

Simple question - Why do you think the NFL outlawed the horse collar?


It really doesn't make a rat's ass what you think the intent was. If you grab a guy from behind while he's up in the air, and drag him down by the throat, it's a dirty fucking play. And the fact that Manu got up like a warrior doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. It's like shooting into a crowd and accidentally not hitting anyone - then insisting it wasn't dangerous, since no one was killed. Fucking simian logic. (Don't bother looking it up... simian means "monkey".)

Yeah, because the foul was the same as shooting a gun into the crowd. Great analogy.

Great avatar by the way.

[GSH]

Yeah, because the foul was the same as shooting a gun into the crowd. Great analogy.

Great avatar by the way.


It's a simple question, shitheel. Why not answer?

Why do you think the NFL outlawed the horse collar?

[scott]

It's a simple question, shitheel. Why not answer?

Why do you think the NFL outlawed the horse collar?

Already asked and answered in this exact thread.


If we are talking about football, then football is a violent game where people get seriously injured from perfect form tackles. Horse tackle injuries resulted in two high-profile injuries, neither career-threatening, that caused the rule to be established. If you've ever played football as a defender and you know the object is to tackle the ball carrier and you tackle someone the best way you can. Horse collars tackles (in football) are marginally more dangerous than grabbing someones jersey from behind and pulling them down (perfectly legal).

I'll also add that this exact play happens in almost every soccer match. Sometimes it gets no call, sometimes a yellow, sometimes a red. No careers have been threatened. "But it's like a shooting a gun!"

[MannyIsGod]

Scott doesn't believe in god. Pay him no mind.

[wut]

look scott, you're just wrong. It wasn't a grab the guy hard foul or hard slap on the arms, it was a grab and forcefully pull the guy down by his neck to the ground by a player who is KNOWN for committing flagrant fouls.

You can't justify that kind of violence in a game; there's no place for it....it's why flagrant level 2 even exists! It was a flagrant 2 by the books....and that's that.

I know you are a little miffed at the way Spurs fans are handling this, and I think this is because sub-conscientiously some think that if this were someone like Kobe Braynt, Najera would be suspended 3 games easy....yet this will be another sweep under the rugs "hard-nosed" (no pun intended :D ) foul.

[scott]

Look all I'm saying is that if Dana White was the NBA commish, I'd start watching before the playoffs.

[MannyIsGod]

I bet Manu could beat GSP.

[scott]

GSP maybe. But Anderson Silva would probably make a mockery out of the fight, then end Manu's career.

[GSH]

I'll also add that this exact play happens in almost every soccer match. Sometimes it gets no call, sometimes a yellow, sometimes a red. No careers have been threatened. "But it's like a shooting a gun!"

You're an ignorant fuck, and you never played football beyond peewee, if that. Careers ARE threatened, and some things players can't just shrug off. Even if they are super-tough, like you.

"The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated for six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams (including two in one game). The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens and quarterback Donovan McNabb, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico.

The horse-collar is particularly dangerous due to the awkward position of the player getting tackled... Potential injuries include sprains or tears to ligaments in the knees and ankles (including the ACL and MCL), and fractures of the tibia and fibula."


Dumbass.

[scott]

Okay you're right. It *is* like shooting a gun into a crowd. Good win, internet superstar.

[Thompson]

So do people really think Najera will be suspended for game 5? Not rhetorical, I want to know if it's likely (though it really wouldn't hurt the Mavs much anyway).

[GSH]

Okay you're right. It *is* like shooting a gun into a crowd. Good win, internet superstar.

And you're still an ignorant fuck. When you do something stupidly dangerous, it doesn't matter what your intent was. And you can't justify it by pointing out that nobody happened to get hurt. (That's what makes the gun comment an "analogy". If I had said that it was like pulling a guy down from behind by the throat, it would have been a "redundancy". Isn't English fun?)


The directive is dubbed the "Roy Williams Rule" in reference to the defender whose use of the technique seriously injured Calico, Owens and Musa Smith, who suffered a fractured right tibia and missed the Ravens' final six games.

Calico had arthroscopic surgery and returned for one game but aggravated the injury and had subsequent surgery.

Calico doubts Williams intentionally tried to hurt him.


See what I did there? That was another analogy. It wasn't Ginobili and Najera, but it's similar. And it doesn't matter what the intent was... it's a dangerous thing to do.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol he just told you that you won and its not enough for you. Jesus.

[GSH]

:lol he just told you that you won and its not enough for you. Jesus.

Sometimes, if you beat them down enough, they get too depressed to breed. Less chance of a whole new generation of ignorant fucks.

[scott]

GSH, you get bonus Internet Superstar Points for using curse words in subsequent posts. I sure wouldn't want to run into you in a dark alley!

[GSH]

GSH, you get bonus Internet Superstar Points for using curse words in subsequent posts. I sure wouldn't want to run into you in a dark alley!

I do bird calls, too.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/100425_duncan.html

timmy talks about najera and the flagrant foul.

[E-RockWill]

I do bird calls, too.

:rollin

[spurastic]

Was it Cuban who offered to pay someone to go in and break Bowen's leg at one of the series a couple of years ago? If so, hummmmmmm?

[duhoh]

rofl, doesn't matter anyways.

our guys still owned.

[gameFACE]

Najera is the only Mexican not welcome in SA.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

And the fact that Manu got up like a warrior doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.

This.

I dread to think what would have happened if it had been someone like Paul Pierce, in Manu's place. :) Wheelchairs to the rescue!

[mogrovejo]

Robert Horry kind of foul. Cheap, but not as dirty as a Bruce Bowen one.

[Taco]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100426/capt.28d4832296fb4027854cad15c564ebfe-28d4832296fb4027854cad15c564ebfe-0.jpg

[Gutter92]

My favorite part was our coaching staff's reaction. Pop gets up in anger and remembers to turn around and tell every1 to stay the fk where they are (same with our assistants)...and thats what separates us from the suns :lol

[GSH]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100426/capt.28d4832296fb4027854cad15c564ebfe-28d4832296fb4027854cad15c564ebfe-0.jpg


A picture is worth a thousand words. Convenient, since I don't know 998 more words that mean the same thing as "dirty bastard". Great pic, Taco.

[sa_butta]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/autumn/halloween/images/2005/headless_man.jpg

Ginobili seen here leaving after Game 4, says he will be ready to play for game 5. Ginobili also said he will not be wearing his head peice for game 5.

[elbamba]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/autumn/halloween/images/2005/headless_man.jpg

Ginobili seen here leaving after Game 4, says he will be ready to play for game 5. Ginobili also said he will not be wearing his head peice for game 5.

Awsome.

[Crookshanks]

One of the guys here at work actually told me he thought what Najera did was cool. He said "that's my man." He said Najera was sent in to send a message since the Mavs were getting screwed by the refs. He said poor Dirk has been getting mauled and beat up in every game and not getting the calls. But then he agreed Dallas is a jumpshooting team - some fans are just really ignorant.

Oh - and he's convinced the Mavs are gonna win the next 3 :lmao

It's gonna be fun rubbing his face in it later this week!

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Robert Horry kind of foul. Cheap, but not as dirty as a Bruce Bowen one.

Ray, is that you?

[in2deep]

It was a bad foul because it was intentional. Clotheslining Manu. Najera suspended 1 or 2 games.

[Mixability]

This.

I dread to think what would have happened if it had been someone like Paul Pierce, in Manu's place. :) Wheelchairs to the rescue!

Paul Pierce would've died.

[in2deep]

Paul Pierce would've died.

and come back for game 5

[ohmwrecker]

Scott,
It wasn't the dirtiest foul I've ever seen . . . taking someone's legs out when they are in the air is much worse (a legal move in football, by the way, so comparing the two sports is ludicrous), but it was a dirty foul. All the fouls by the Spurs were "basketball" fouls were there is an attempted play at the ball. Najera was sent in to injure someone (which, thankfully he failed to do) and that is the distinction. The outrage stems from people being Spurs fans. Any other fan would express some level of outrage if it were to happen to one of their players and rightfully so.
You admitted to not even watching regular season basketball. So, you aren't even that much of a fan, but you feel you have to come into this thread and insult Spurs fans about their reaction. It seems like you don't enjoy sports unless there is a high probability of injury. Bloodlust like yours is not part of any real basketball fan's mindset. Get help, you sociopath.

[Drachen]

did pop or any of the players leave the ben ch. Thee used to be a rule if you leave the bench you are banned from the next game.

How many spurs should be suspended for the next game because of this play?

As for this, if you watch the replay Pop immediately jumps up, starts marching toward the action with that "end of days" look on his face. Then has the composure to do a very quick about face tells the assistant coaches to keep everybody on the bench, then turns around and continues his march toward the action. I thought this was excellent.

As for Najera, the guy is a total idiot. One of my friends went to high school with him, and told me about two times that he got busted cheating on his Spanish tests . . . Let that sink in a moment. Najera is from Mexico. They let it slide though because he was good at basketball and his parents were rich. My buddy said he has always been an arrogant prick who is a moron.

[GSH]

Scott,
It wasn't the dirtiest foul I've ever seen . . . taking someone's legs out when they are in the air is much worse (a legal move in football, by the way, so comparing the two sports is ludicrous),

It's not ludicrous to compare the two, and even the NFL doesn't allow unlimited contact on receivers when they are in the air, and defenseless. Like it or not, what Najera did was dirty, and would have been illegal even in the NFL.

"It is now an illegal hit on a defenseless receiver if the initial force of the contact by the defender’s helmet, forearm or shoulder is to the head or neck area"

Jerry Markbreit, former NFL referee - All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected from unnecessary hits by the defense, which include helmet-to-helmet contact, helmet-to-body contact, and blows to the head. Intended receivers of forward passes who fail to catch the pass are considered to be in a defenseless position immediately after the pass is missed. If the pass is caught, all of these restrictions are off, unless in the opinion of the covering official, something unsportsmanlike occurs.

[ohmwrecker]

"It is now an illegal hit on a defenseless receiver if the initial force of the contact by the defender’s helmet, forearm or shoulder is to the head or neck area"

Cool. Thanks for the fun fact. Not at all what I was talking about though.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Najera needs to be suspended unless the league wants this series getting any uglier. At best in the heat of an extremely physical game he lost his cool and committed a dangerous foul. If the league wants to believe that then putting him on the bench sends a message to both sides exactly where the line is and where it got crossed.

At worst he either came in with his own personal agenda to level someone or worse yet with instructions, implicit or explicit, to level someone. If that's the way the league sees it I don't see how they could not suspend him.

[GSH]

Cool. Thanks for the fun fact. Not at all what I was talking about though.

I guess I'm just not in the mood for condescending pricks today.

You said that comparing the two sports is ludicrous. (Since you said it, I assumed you were talking about it.) It isn't ludicrous. Both sports have rules to protect players who are vulnerable from getting the shit knocked out of them.

If it's dangerous to a player wearing pads and a helmet, playing on grass - it's probably dangerous for an unprotected guy playing on a hardwood floor. Those are the facts. I don't give a shit if they're fun or not.

[ohmwrecker]

I guess I'm just not in the mood for condescending pricks today.

You are a sensitive little guy, eh?


You said that comparing the two sports is ludicrous. (Since you said it, I assumed you were talking about it.) It isn't ludicrous. Both sports have rules to protect players who are vulnerable from getting the shit knocked out of them.

If it's dangerous to a player wearing pads and a helmet, playing on grass - it's probably dangerous for an unprotected guy playing on a hardwood floor. Those are the facts. I don't give a shit if they're fun or not.

I don't know where the wires got crossed, but I think I agree with you. One sport is played in pads on turf, the other is played in what are essentially pajamas, on hardwood. That's why I said the comparison is ludicrous.
Also, the NFL rules you quoted say nothing about hitting a receiver with the ball in the air, taking his legs out, which is what I was referring to.

[Obstructed_View]

Najera needs to be suspended unless the league wants this series getting any uglier. At best in the heat of an extremely physical game he lost his cool and committed a dangerous foul. If the league wants to believe that then putting him on the bench sends a message to both sides exactly where the line is and where it got crossed.

At worst he either came in with his own personal agenda to level someone or worse yet with instructions, implicit or explicit, to level someone. If that's the way the league sees it I don't see how they could not suspend him.

The NBA did nothing about the Mavs players that directly defied David Stern's warning about criticizing the officials, and shouldn't be surprised that the Mavs feel more and more justified every time Dirk Nowitzki doesn't shoot at least as many free throws as the Spurs team does.

[Mixability]

or worse yet with instructions, implicit or explicit, to level someone.

With all the proclaimed "HATE" that Marky Mark has for the Spurs, I wouldn't put it past him to call for that hit.

[GSH]

You are a sensitive little guy, eh?



I don't know where the wires got crossed, but I think I agree with you. One sport is played in pads on turf, the other is played in what are essentially pajamas, on hardwood. That's why I said the comparison is ludicrous.
Also, the NFL rules you quoted say nothing about hitting a receiver with the ball in the air, taking his legs out, which is what I was referring to.


Yeah... piss poor morning.

I knew your point about undercutting. Actually, I saw a ref call a penalty for exactly that last season. I wish I could remember the teams, but I can't. I was pissed, because I thought the ref was pulling something out of his ass, because it's not in the rules. What I found out was that it's not "explicitly" in the rules. But the refs have the ability to make a judgment call when it involves a helpless receiver. The receiver had gone WAY up for a ball, and it was pretty clear the defender was trying to hurt him. Necks get broken on plays like that.

The main point of the whole discussion is that it's dangerous as hell to pull a guy down backwards like that - especially when he's up in the air and falling onto a hard surface. If he had hooked Manu and then let go, it would be one thing. But to hold on and continue the motion toward the floor? Bullshit - that's not an accident. And it could even hurt a guy in pads, if he fell wrong.

Injuries can happen any time. But some behavior makes them too damned likely. Najera needs to sit.

[MB20]

It was a great pump fake by Manu, btw...

[senorglory]

It wasn't the dirtiest foul I've ever seen . . .

McHale/Rambis clothesline, game 4, 1984 Finals = dirtiest foul ever seen.

celebrated/viewable here (http://rorygold.com/25th-anniversary-of-the-mchale-rambis-clothesline/).

(my favorites about the clothesline: Rambis goes after McHale right away; it's Worthy that intervenes and sends Rambis backwards over the photogs; it's Bird that give Rambis a hand up).

[MarceloM!]

Najera? Najera just sucks. Forget about him, he will be on vacation after next game.

[badfish22]

No suspension

rL9ihXiFAko

[Dr. Gonzo]

No suspension

rL9ihXiFAko

Yeah it's "gangsta" to lose a series.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

It would be epic to see how the crowd reacts if najera enters the game.

[Fpoonsie]

It would be epic to see how the crowd reacts if najera enters the game.

I know. I was thinking the same thing.

It's just gonna piss me off. Hopefully, it pumps our boys up. From what it looks like, Blair lives off that kinda energy.

[Nathan Explosion]

McHale/Rambis clothesline, game 4, 1984 Finals = dirtiest foul ever seen.

celebrated/viewable here (http://rorygold.com/25th-anniversary-of-the-mchale-rambis-clothesline/).

(my favorites about the clothesline: Rambis goes after McHale right away; it's Worthy that intervenes and sends Rambis backwards over the photogs; it's Bird that give Rambis a hand up).

Add another favorite, Rambis' glasses. Classic.

[GSH]

No suspension

rL9ihXiFAko


Suspended, or not suspended. It was always a lose-lose for Mavs fans.


BTW-even my music kicks your music's ass.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Goq-dujHBA8/RvNREboWxdI/AAAAAAAACBo/R1aIGWdiC5g/s400/zappa_1.JPG

[lurker]

No suspension proves that the league is out to help the Spurs.

[badfish22]

lol Zappa
lol overrated
lol "my music"
lol "your music"
lol thinking I actually like Najera

[Samr]

League should suspend Nojera and fine the Mavs. Don't want to encourage that type of play, and you certainly don't want to encourage teams that condone it.

Carlisle should have been apologizing for and disowning Najera's actions during post-games. Mavs are in a real sucky situation right now for them, but if you're going to be known as a soft team that sucks harder in big games than a gay guy through a straw, well, at least you aren't a dirty, soft, sucky team.

[blizz]

Don Harris just reported that the NBA will not take any further action against Najera. That's bullshit.

[CubanMustGo]

b-b-b-but the NBA and Stern doesn't like the Mavs !!!

[cornbread]

Robert Horry kind of foul. Cheap, but not as dirty as a Bruce Bowen one.

Do you think the Bruce Bowen myth hate is race-motivated like the KG myth?