Doesnt a elbow to the head deserve a game suspension?

[mabrignani]

didnt garnett get a suspension for sorta the same thing?

[coyotes_geek]

Dirk won't get suspended, nor should he. A technical is punishment enough.

[mabrignani]

what if he had broken blair's nose? then there would be a suspension? i think an attempt to hit somebody in the head like he did should deserve a suspension

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

when did someone get elbow to the head?

[Shank]

when did someone get elbow to the head?

Exactly.

[nkdlunch]

r u talking about Dirk's elbow to Blair?

[ohmwrecker]

If I thought Dirk wasn't such a punk-bitch, I would agree with you. Believe me, that bony-elbowed kraut wants nothing to do with DeJuan Blair.

[Fpoonsie]

when did someone get elbow to the head?

Um. Yeah.

Are they talking about the shove?

Jesus. Wishful thinking, Spur fan.

[Mixability]

cmon, seriously.

[mabrignani]

i just watched the replay and dirk blatantly swung his elbow at blairs head....watch it and tell me he didnt. just bc he missed doesnt mean the intent wasnt there

[boutons_deux]

Barea definitely elbowed Manu in the back of the head, and Manu rubbed it for a couple minutes.

Spurs otta wrap the bastard in veclro and throw him at a wall.

[timvp]

That was barely worthy of a technical. :lol @ suspension

[Mixability]

I'd rather have the Spurs beat em next game with Dirk than without. No f'n excuses.

[coyotes_geek]

what if he had broken blair's nose? then there would be a suspension? i think an attempt to hit somebody in the head like he did should deserve a suspension

but he didn't break blair's nose. no need to make this into something it's not. it was nothing more than a player getting frustrated and giving an extra shove. a technical foul is sufficient punishment. even then, the refs probably let that one go had the game not been getting so chippy.

[mabrignani]

but isnt there a rule that you can not take a shot at someones head? i mean really, he could have really fucked up blair with an elbow...we see what his elbow is capable of with manus nose bein all fucked up

[coyotes_geek]

and jefferson was about half an inch away from really fucking up dirk. does rj need to get suspended too?

[easy7]

Well, an elbow to the nose gets you 2 free throws if you are the guy giving it. Maybe the head is not that critical, unless your on a date.

[Obstructed_View]

but isnt there a rule that you can not take a shot at someones head? i mean really, he could have really fucked up blair with an elbow...we see what his elbow is capable of with manus nose bein all fucked up

Dirk was trying to disengage, and did it in a confrontational manner, hence the technical. Blair's lucky that it wasn't a double technical. If you're going to go down this road, then prepare to be without Richard Jefferson for the next game.

[mabrignani]

rj didnt intentionally swing his elbow at dirks face....thats the point im trying to get across....how do you guys not follow?

[Mixability]

but isnt there a rule that you can not take a shot at someones head? i mean really, he could have really fucked up blair with an elbow...we see what his elbow is capable of with manus nose bein all fucked up

If he intentionally led with the elbow and Blair was unlucky enough to turn at the perfect time. THEN we'd be talking about the NBA taking action, but to expect them to punish a swing and a miss? That's straight up Mav-like.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

rj didnt intentionally swing his elbow at dirks face....thats the point im trying to get across....how do you guys not follow?

so u r saying dirk intentionally swing his elbow at blair's face :rolleyes

[mabrignani]

if you shoot a gun at someone and miss isnt that still attempted murder?

[coyotes_geek]

Dirk was trying to disengage, and did it in a confrontational manner, hence the technical. Blair's lucky that it wasn't a double technical. If you're going to go down this road, then prepare to be without Richard Jefferson for the next game.

After seeing what happened next, I'll bet you the refs are wishing they had given the double T.

[ohmwrecker]

Dirk was trying to disengage, and did it in a confrontational manner, hence the technical. Blair's lucky that it wasn't a double technical. If you're going to go down this road, then prepare to be without Richard Jefferson for the next game.

What? I don't agree with OP, but Jefferson's foul was a hard play at the ball. The face contact was incidental.

[NFGIII]

Desn't intent have anything to do with it? Or is it cut and dry - any elbow, regardless of the situation, to the head automatically warrants a T and a one game suspension? I think there is a little bit of leeway for the refs though it may be one of those "between the lines" kind of interpretation.

[mabrignani]

so u r saying dirk intentionally swing his elbow at blair's face :rolleyes

you act as if dirk wouldnt try something like that.....which he clearly did....

[Mixability]

if you shoot a gun at someone and miss isnt that still attempted murder?

please stop.

[coyotes_geek]

rj didnt intentionally swing his elbow at dirks face....thats the point im trying to get across....how do you guys not follow?

We follow. We just don't agree with you.


if you shoot a gun at someone and miss isnt that still attempted murder?

Now you're just being ridiculous.

[mabrignani]

please stop.

haha ok that is a little far i know...but as you can see im a mavs hater

[ohmwrecker]

you act as if dirk wouldnt try something like that.....which he clearly did....

Not clearly enough. Arms got tangled and Dirk swung his arms to get the refs attention. Didn't work out for him though. Like I said before, Dirk wants no part of DeJuan Blair. It was a weak move.

[Sec24Row7]

I wasn't sure that the Barea elbow to the back of Manu's head wasn't intentional... but LOL@ Dirk getting suspended for the Blair ordeal... thats just good playoff basketball... and a little emotion...

[mabrignani]

Not clearly enough. Arms got tangled and Dirk swung his arms to get the refs attention. Didn't work out for him though. Like I said before, Dirk wants no part of DeJuan Blair. It was a weak move.

while i think blair would kick his ass(to say the least) everyone in the nba knows that no one will fight anyone else....unless artest and sjax are playing. dirk knows if he were to have elbowed blair in the face that blair wouldnt do anything

[coyotes_geek]

The only guy deserving of a suspension from last night's game is Najera.

[Obstructed_View]

rj didnt intentionally swing his elbow at dirks face....thats the point im trying to get across....how do you guys not follow?

RJ actually connected on his shot, which is worthy of a suspension. Swinging your elbow with intent draws a technical, NOT A SUSPENSION, and that's exactly what Dirk got. People are explaining what's in the rulebook to you, and you're just ignoring the information. You are misinformed. Let it go.

[ohmwrecker]

while i think blair would kick his ass(to say the least) everyone in the nba knows that no one will fight anyone else....unless artest and sjax are playing. dirk knows if he were to have elbowed blair in the face that blair wouldnt do anything

Who said anything about a fight? Blair is smart enough to wait until the next time Dirk takes the ball to the rim.

[ohmwrecker]

RJ actually connected on his shot, which is worthy of a suspension. Swinging your elbow with intent draws a technical, NOT A SUSPENSION, and that's exactly what Dirk got. People are explaining what's in the rulebook to you, and you're just ignoring the information. You are misinformed. Let it go.

It's best not to be wrong when correcting others.

[mabrignani]

A player, coach or trainer must be ejected for:
(1) A punching foul
(2) A fighting foul
(3) An elbow foul which makes contact above shoulder level
(4) An attempted punch which does not make contact

[Mixability]

it doesn't say attempted elbow.

[MoSpur]

The only person who needs to be suspended is Najera. The other fouls and elbows is just playoff basketball.

[mabrignani]

q. Elbow fouls, which make contact above shoulder level, and punching fouls, although recorded as both personal and team fouls, are unsportsmanlike acts. The player will be ejected immediately.

[mabrignani]

it doesn't say attempted elbow.

i think that goes with attempted punch

[ohmwrecker]

Did Garnett's elbow to Richardson connect? He's such a pussy that I couldn't tell.

[Whisky Dog]

Rofl at this thread.

[TheSullyMonster]

Did Garnett's elbow to Richardson connect? He's such a pussy that I couldn't tell.

Yeah, he nailed him in the neck.

[smrattler]

Someone needs to tell Dirk about Blair's appetite for arms.

He might chew him off at the elbow next time.

[Shank]

Rofl at this thread.
:downspin:

[bus driver]

The only person who needs to be suspended is Najera. The other fouls and elbows is just playoff basketball.

its all fun and games until someone gets hurt.......:wakeup


nah, i agree with MS

[m33p0]

but he didn't break blair's nose. no need to make this into something it's not. it was nothing more than a player getting frustrated and giving an extra shove. a technical foul is sufficient punishment. even then, the refs probably let that one go had the game not been getting so chippy.
i doubt that he could even if he tried.


Barea definitely elbowed Manu in the back of the head, and Manu rubbed it for a couple minutes.

Spurs otta wrap the bastard in veclro and throw him at a wall.
that deserves a lol and a half.:lol

[Obstructed_View]

It's best not to be wrong when correcting others.

Good thing I'm not wrong then. RJ connected with his forearm. Ask Kobe Bryant if you can get suspended for it.

[GSH]

what if he had broken blair's nose? then there would be a suspension? i think an attempt to hit somebody in the head like he did should deserve a suspension


Blair doesn't have any ACL's. He'd keep playing without a nose.

For the record, recklessly throwing elbows usually doesn't draw a suspension. Karl Malone did it for years before he finally got nailed with a suspension. After that, he would get a suspension ever couple of years.

Just like Dirk, he flailed his elbows to clear space. The fact that he sometimes connected with someone's head was just an unfortunate side-effect. At least that's what the league seemed to think. Because they never did anything until he hurt someone pretty badly.

Most people don't know that in college, Malone elbowed a guy and basically crushed his face. The guy never played again. Malone also used to lead with his knee on jump shots - sound familiar? One time he kneed Donyell Marshall and broke his ribs, and Marshall missed the rest of the season.

[Obstructed_View]

Most people don't know that in college, Malone elbowed a guy and basically crushed his face. The guy never played again. Malone also used to lead with his knee on jump shots - sound familiar? One time he kneed Donyell Marshall and broke his ribs, and Marshall missed the rest of the season.

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html


The Early Years: The Ramer Incident
When Karl Malone was still in college, he threw an elbow that sent Rice center Dave Ramer to the hospital and ended his career.

From the December 6, 1984 Washington Post:

Rice junior center Dave Ramer will undergo reconstructive surgery Friday in Houston to repair multiple injuries suffered in what Coach Tommy Suitts says was an intentional elbowing incident in Monday's game against Louisiana Tech. Ramer has a depressed cheekbone, fractures above and below his right eye socket and a collapsed sinus after the incident involving Louisiana Tech's Karl Malone.

Malone had gone up for a rebound and came down swinging his elbows. Ramer was unfortunate enough to be in the same area code. The blow shattered Ramer's cheekbone, and he went down screaming in pain. Malone just looked at him and walked away. Malone's coach was so appalled by Malone's behavior that he went out on the court and told Malone to go back and show some decency and concern. Let me repeat that for emphasis:

Malone's coach made him go back out on the court and act like he cared.

It was obvious that he didn't. Malone muttered a forced apology, but of course Ramer was in no condition to hear it.

Ramer never played basketball again. Amazingly, instead of going to jail or being sued, Malone went on to the NBA and his career flourished. But he didn't stop sending people to the hospital.

[ohmwrecker]

Good thing I'm not wrong then. RJ connected with his forearm. Ask Kobe Bryant if you can get suspended for it.

Sigh . . . RJ was swiping down at the ball. The face contact was incidental. Kobe swung his arms after shooting to hit his defender. How can those two even be compared?

[coyotes_geek]

The league has spoken. If a blatant throwdown by the neck doesn't deserve a suspension, then neither does anything Dirk did.

[GSH]

If you guys are seriously talking about Dirk shoving Blair, forget about it. That was playground stuff. And you need to be clear about the rules - there is a big difference between an ejection and a suspension. Ejection is for the remainder of this game, suspension is for the entire next game. Dirk isn't even on the radar screen for a suspension.

I thought you were talking about the elbow that broke Manu's nose. Dirk wasn't specifically trying to hit Manu with an elbow, but he does do the same thing Malone used to do. He thrashes around with those elbows extended to clear space. The message is, "Give me some room, and you won't get hit with an elbow." He does it all the time against teams that are guarding him close. Every now and then, someone like Ginobili steps into one. And make no mistake - a solid elbow to the face has a good chance of being season-ending.

I would never say a word, as long as he keeps it below the shoulders. But if you have the game recorded, look at how many times he lashes with those elbows at head height. (A lot of the time, he makes one swing low and then the other direction higher.) The league needs to warn him and the team, just like they warned Bruce about undercutting shooters. Both things are too dangerous, and too avoidable. When you're endangering another player's season, it doesn't matter what your intent is. I know Dirk doesn't like defenders in his jock, but that's basketball. Maybe he just has a natural dislike for defense on both ends of the floor?

But don't start whining about stuff like that shrug-off on Blair. He was riding Dirk like a horse, and if it had been the other way around you would be congratulating the rookie for not backing down. If the refs were trying to calm the game down, they probably should have called a double technical, so that both players would be on notice to stop the bullshit. It doesn't always seem fair, but they have to keep the game under control. Instead, what they did raised the temperature. It was bad officiating. (Note to Mavs fans: it is possible to see both sides. Dirk's not a dirty player, period. But those elbows are a bad habit.)

[temujin]

If you guys are seriously talking about Dirk shoving Blair, forget about it. That was playground stuff. And you need to be clear about the rules - there is a big difference between an ejection and a suspension. Ejection is for the remainder of this game, suspension is for the entire next game. Dirk isn't even on the radar screen for a suspension.

I thought you were talking about the elbow that broke Manu's nose. Dirk wasn't specifically trying to hit Manu with an elbow, but he does do the same thing Malone used to do. He thrashes around with those elbows extended to clear space. The message is, "Give me some room, and you won't get hit with an elbow." He does it all the time against teams that are guarding him close. Every now and then, someone like Ginobili steps into one. And make no mistake - a solid elbow to the face has a good chance of being season-ending.

I would never say a word, as long as he keeps it below the shoulders. But if you have the game recorded, look at how many times he lashes with those elbows at head height. (A lot of the time, he makes one swing low and then the other direction higher.) The league needs to warn him and the team, just like they warned Bruce about undercutting shooters. Both things are too dangerous, and too avoidable. When you're endangering another player's season, it doesn't matter what your intent is. I know Dirk doesn't like defenders in his jock, but that's basketball. Maybe he just has a natural dislike for defense on both ends of the floor?

But don't start whining about stuff like that shrug-off on Blair. He was riding Dirk like a horse, and if it had been the other way around you would be congratulating the rookie for not backing down. If the refs were trying to calm the game down, they probably should have called a double technical, so that both players would be on notice to stop the bullshit. It doesn't always seem fair, but they have to keep the game under control. Instead, what they did raised the temperature. It was bad officiating. (Note to Mavs fans: it is possible to see both sides. Dirk's not a dirty player, period. But those elbows are a bad habit.)

Absolutely correct.

Just ask Landry and his dentist.

[Parker2112]

It wasnt pushing/shoving...Dirk was throwing elbows out of frustration through the last half of the game...he threw an elbow at head level, knowing that Blair was directly behind him. That is enough to deduce intent IMO. Garnett got the suspension because he landed, but to me if there is intent, contact shouldn't be the determining factor. To only step in after someone takes a shot to the head is bull, it shouldnt take possible injury for the league to step in.

Not only that, but Dirk calling it a "streetfight," his team is the one that took it to that level...and our guys admirably stayed out of it. Now, Terry says its going to get worse, essentially threatening to up the level of dirty play from game 4...the league should step in here and do something preemptively to let the Mavs know that this head-slinging, elbow throwing, bullshit wont be tolerated.

Dirk is acting like a spoiled bitch, flailing his arms because he cant get a call. But it shouldnt take contact to get the league to step in.

[duhoh]

you retards.

the only thing close to a suspension from that game was the najera move. dirk did nothing close.

[z0sa]

The league has spoken. If a blatant throwdown by the neck doesn't deserve a suspension, then neither does anything Dirk did.

Agreed.

[Obstructed_View]

Sigh . . . RJ was swiping down at the ball. The face contact was incidental. Kobe swung his arms after shooting to hit his defender. How can those two even be compared?

Both are judgment calls, and you're stating your opinion about it as though it's fact. Kobe wasn't aiming at Manu's face, he was just trying to draw a foul, so a case could be made that it's incidental contact. A case could also be made the Jefferson was aiming at Dirk's head and not the ball, which would then make it an infraction capable of drawing a suspension.

My point is that if someone with no knowledge of the NBA rulebook wants the league looking at Dirk's overly confrontational attempt to disengage from Blair, which is really all it was, then they're probably not going to like the league looking at RJ's flagrant.

If I'm mistaken about which play we're talking about and Dirk actually threw an elbow that I'm not aware of, then the question should really be why he didn't get a second technical.

[spurs10]

didnt garnett get a suspension for sorta the same thing?
Dirk "I love David Hasselhoff" is an elbow swinging, friend to Jason Terry, dumbass. He, Najera, and their fucking coach, who obviously sent that sold out piece of shit in to take Manu out in his 40 seconds, are a disgrace to themselves and anyone forced to hang around with them. They all should be suspended by themselves, if they had an ounce of self respect (which is doubtful). Fuck the Dallas Mavericks and all their- walkoutwhenthechiparedown- phony fucking Dallas fans. :lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

[Parker2112]

you retards.

the only thing close to a suspension from that game was the najera move. dirk did nothing close.

Im not saying a suspension is warranted, but the league needs to issue a warning, to let Dallas know that we are not going to take it to a "nut punching" level. Tell the Mavs to clean it up. I dont want hear Terry sending messages to the Spurs, trying to intimidate our guys because he thinks that is the only way they can win. And I dont want to see Dirk throwing elbows every time he has the ball...he's already broken Manus nose...fuck the mavs.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

This is a really lame discussion. The answers are easy.

1) Dirk sort of swung an elbow (it was more like a flailing arm) but he came nowhere near actually hitting Blair's head. Therefore simple technical is the right call.

2) Berea's hit on Ginobili was not a deliberate elbow swing, it was a somewhat accidental bump while trying to defend a layup.

3) Jefferson was simply swiping down at Dirk's arms and the ball to prevent him from getting a layup. He happened to graze Dirk's face on the way down. In a normal game that would not have been called a flagrant foul, but the refs were trying to make sure the game didn't get out of control.

A flagrant 1 or a technical foul for arguing is kind of like a yellow card in soccer. It's a warning that the ref is just not going to allow that, and if you do it again, you're gone. The flow and temperature of the game influences the decision whether to issue it or not.

[Chomag]

This is stupid. It's called playoff basketball, and emotions are high. There is nothing dirty going on. If every player got suspended for the things some of you are crying about there would be no one left to play by the time the first game in the Championship series started.

The thing between Blair and Dirk was far from anything malicious. Blair was all up on dirk and they go tangled and dirk flailed to get free. His action was a bit out of frustration but there was nothing sinister about it Dirk got the foul move on...

[cherylsteele]

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/nimage/9ecc6a04b5454f02

[YoMamaIsCallin]

This is stupid. It's called playoff basketball, and emotions are high. There is nothing dirty going on. If every player got suspended for the things some of you are crying about there would be no one left to play by the time the first game in the Championship series started.

The thing between Blair and Dirk was far from anything malicious. Blair was all up on dirk and they go tangled and dirk flailed to get free. His action was a bit out of frustration but there was nothing sinister about it Dirk got the foul move on...

No he didn't "flail to get free", he wasn't tied up. He took an aggressive swing in Blair's general vicinity but not right at him.

No it isn't "playoff basketball", it's a pissy little response to someone bodying up on him. It was pretty laughable actually.

[Obstructed_View]

No he didn't "flail to get free", he wasn't tied up. He took an aggressive swing in Blair's general vicinity but not right at him.

This must be homerism that makes people believe such rubbish. For those of you that think this, I'd ask you to go look at the replay.

Dirk did the exact same thing in an earlier game in this series. It's a primadonna move when someone dares to touch him without being whistled, that's true, but it's nowhere near being "aggressive". Blair raised his arm to make it a little tougher for Dirk to disengage, and he did a good job of keeping his cool so it wouldn't look like he baited Dirk into getting a technical. As was mentioned, the refs could have (and for the sake of game control, SHOULD have) called a double technical and warned both benches to knock their shit off.