Did Cuban made a mistake by not resigning Steve Nash?

[ChrisRichards]

What do you guys think? I think 2 MVP caliber players in the same team would at least amount to one championship.

[Leetonidas]

Not really. The Mavs in 2006 and 2007 had VASTLY improved defense than before Nash. With Nash in the lineup, the Spurs would've beaten the Mavs in 2006 with Parker averaging like 36 a game.

[Muser]

If Nash stays then San Antonio might have 3-peated.

[Findog]

If Nash stays, so does Nellie. And they continue to score 115 a game and lose in the playoffs with Nash, Finley, Dirk and Bradley. Nash was a borderline All Star in Dallas, in Phoenix they built their team around him.

[Thunder Dan]

If Nash stays, so does Nellie. And they continue to score 115 a game and lose in the playoffs

as opposed to what they are doing now?

[resistanze]

as opposed to what they are doing now?

The question was whether it was a mistake, though. It wasn't, unless you think they would've won a championship with Steve Nash and Nellie ball.

[cheguevara]

truth is we'll never know.

[Thunder Dan]

the problem with the Mavs isn't their PG, it's that their star player is soft and doesn't show heart when backed into a corner. A team takes on the mentality of their leader.

[z0sa]

The Mavs enjoyed their most successful stretch as a franchise without Nash or Kidd.

[Findog]

The question was whether it was a mistake, though. It wasn't, unless you think they would've won a championship with Steve Nash and Nellie ball.

The point was obvious to anybody who has an IQ above room temperature.

[Findog]

It's funny as the Mavs-Spurs series draws to a close to see the blame laid at the feet of one Dirk Werner Nowitzki. Funny, because he's been the best player on either team while getting little to no help from his teammates, and because the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th-best players in this series are all Spurs. Makes you wonder what series some people have been watching.

[Thunder Dan]

The point was obvious to anybody who has an IQ above room temperature.

i dont get it

[Obstructed_View]

Not really. The Mavs in 2006 and 2007 had VASTLY improved defense than before Nash. With Nash in the lineup, the Spurs would've beaten the Mavs in 2006 with Parker averaging like 36 a game.

:lol

Yeah the improved defense was due to Nash not being there. It had nothing to do with Avery Johnson.

[Fpoonsie]

It's funny as the Mavs-Spurs series draws to a close to see the blame laid at the feet of one Dirk Werner Nowitzki. Funny, because he's been the best player on either team while getting little to no help from his teammates, and because the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th-best players in this series are all Spurs. Makes you wonder what series some people have been watching.

I'll never understand this either. And people saying he doesn't play w/ heart or that competitive "championship" fire is laughable. The guy's a stud.

The opinion that he shouldn't be the #1 option on a team in order for it to succeed is debatable, I suppose, but to say he's not the scariest person on the floor w/ the ball in his hands is ludicrous. There's a very select number of people in the league that, as soon as they get the ball, I naturally assume it's going in. He's in that dreaded group.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u cant put a prime mvp nash on the mavs cause his not the same player when he was on the mavs, and who knows if he wouldve peaked or carry out that mvp performance cause the teams system in dallas is not built around him, he will just avg 10apg compared to what he was gettin on the suns

[FkLA]

tbh the mavs were fucking stacked when they had dirk, nash, jamison, and the younger versions of antoine walker and michael finley...plus the young up and coming howard and marquis daniels. I think this whole notion that dirk hasnt had the same amount of talent as other nba greats who has won it is bullshit. Fire Nelson, hire Avery and with that team the Mavettes wouldve been pretty scary.

[da_suns_fan]

This thread is five years old.

Did the Suns make a mistake with Joe Johnson?

[Findog]

This thread is five years old.

Did the Suns make a mistake with Joe Johnson?

It's pretty clear the Suns made a mistake with Joe Johnson. If you can find a way for the Mavs to get past the Spurs and into the Finals with Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki on the floor together, then I'd have to concede the Mavs made a mistake.

Nash would've helped against Miami and Golden State, but they never would've gotten that far in the case of the former, and they still would've had to play the Spurs in the case of the latter.

The Mavs got tired of watching him get curbstomped by Mike Bibby and Tony Parker in the playoffs.

[Cane]

Cuban made the mistake of getting Jason Kidd. Nash is a painful move in hindsight as well along with all the various coaching dramas the Mavs are renowned for.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol

Yeah the improved defense was due to Nash not being there. It had nothing to do with Avery Johnson.


Findog already explained that Nellie never leaves if Nash is still there, and yeah it had a lot to do with Avery Johnson, but they weren't going to make that defensive leap as long as Nash is on the team, and given how Nash clashed with a coach who liked to micro-manage anything, it's fair to say Nash and Avery wouldn't have been able to co-exist.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This thread is five years old.

Did the Suns make a mistake with Joe Johnson?


Unless all you're comparing is when they happened, that's an asinine comparison. Joe Johnson is everything the Suns need right now while the Mavs had a ceiling they'd never get over as long as Nash was their PG.

[da_suns_fan]

Unless all you're comparing is when they happened, that's an asinine comparison. Joe Johnson is everything the Suns need right now while the Mavs had a ceiling they'd never get over as long as Nash was their PG.

Apparently my statement went right over everyones heads.

I was saying that this has been discussed to death, much like the Joe Johnson debate.

That is, lets talk about other things we were talking about five years ago...

But for the record, I dont believe for one second the Mavs wouldn't be better with Nash instead of Kidd and Dampier right now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Apparently my statement went right over everyones heads.

I was saying that this has been discussed to death, much like the Joe Johnson debate.

That is, lets talk about other things we were talking about five years ago...

But for the record, I dont believe for one second the Mavs wouldn't be better with Nash instead of Kidd and Dampier right now.

That's why I had the qualifier "Unless all you were comparing is when this happened"

All things considered, it clearly wasn't a mistake. We don't know where the health of Nash's back would be if not for Aaron Nelson, the player Nash was on Dallas was not worth what Phoenix paid him (the player he was on Phoenix from 2005-2007 is irrelevant to the question since he was never going to be that player on Dallas), and it's pretty impossible to deny the fact Dallas would not have gotten by San Antonio in 2006 as a Nellie ball team.

As much as it hurt to lose JJ, the loss is overblown and it's stupid that people talk about it like Phoenix lost the top 5 SG JJ is on Atlanta. As long as JJ stayed in Phoenix with D'antoni as coach, he would have never developed into more than a spot up shooter who played off Nash most of the time, got scarce ball handling as back up point and would have never developed an off the dribble game or taken the next step. A few seasons of D'antoni's system would have done to JJ's career what one season of his system did to Quentin Richardson.

[da_suns_fan]

That's why I had the qualifier "Unless all you were comparing is when this happened"

All things considered, it clearly wasn't a mistake. We don't know where the health of Nash's back would be if not for Aaron Nelson, the player Nash was on Dallas was not worth what Phoenix paid him (the player he was on Phoenix from 2005-2007 is irrelevant to the question since he was never going to be that player on Dallas), and it's pretty impossible to deny the fact Dallas would not have gotten by San Antonio in 2006 as a Nellie ball team.

As much as it hurt to lose JJ, the loss is overblown and it's stupid that people talk about it like Phoenix lost the top 5 SG JJ is on Atlanta. As long as JJ stayed in Phoenix with D'antoni as coach, he would have never developed into more than a spot up shooter who played off Nash most of the time, got scarce ball handling as back up point and would have never developed an off the dribble game or taken the next step. A few seasons of D'antoni's system would have done to JJ's career what one season of his system did to Quentin Richardson.

One of the most uninformed opinions Ive ever read.

When D'Antoni took over for Frank Johnson, Joe Johnson was a kid with huge confidence problems who couldnt average double digits a game.

That same season (before Nash), Joe started putting up 30 point games and near triple doubles.

Joe was phenomenal in his role with Nash, and to say he was a spot up shooter makes me believe you didnt even watch the Suns back then. Amazing how many floaters, isolations and post-fadeaways I remember from a dude who was just a spot up shooter.

I hated D'Antoni as much as the next guy, but to say that he wouldnt be the player he is today if he stayed in Phoenix is ridiculous, because he's pretty much the exact same player he was in Phoenix.

[pauls931]

Judging by the number of titles they've won since Nash left, pretty much status quo...

[Phillip]

capitalize your "O" motherfucker

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

One of the most uninformed opinions Ive ever read.

When D'Antoni took over for Frank Johnson, Joe Johnson was a kid with huge confidence problems who couldnt average double digits a game.

That same season (before Nash), Joe started putting up 30 point games and near triple doubles.

Joe was phenomenal in his role with Nash, and to say he was a spot up shooter makes me believe you didnt even watch the Suns back then. Amazing how many floaters, isolations and post-fadeaways I remember from a dude who was just a spot up shooter.

I hated D'Antoni as much as the next guy, but to say that he wouldnt be the player he is today if he stayed in Phoenix is ridiculous, because he's pretty much the exact same player he was in Phoenix.


Well before Nash JJ had the ball in his hands a lot more, that wasn't what I was referring to. D'antoni was very capable of developing talent, he just chose not to.

JJ's individual game would have gotten progressively worse under D'antoni, just like Quentin Richardson's did, and just like Amare's game did. Amare's post game was in the shitter when D'antoni left and he's finally starting to develop it. Quentin Richardson is now nothing more than a lazy fatass who camps 25 feet from the hoop and chucks 3's when he catches the ball. The same thing would have happened to JJ. Any individual offense JJ had begun to develop would have deteriorated under D'antoni.

[da_suns_fan]

Well before Nash JJ had the ball in his hands a lot more, that wasn't what I was referring to. D'antoni was very capable of developing talent, he just chose not to.

JJ's individual game would have gotten progressively worse under D'antoni, just like Quentin Richardson's did, and just like Amare's game did. Amare's post game was in the shitter when D'antoni left and he's finally starting to develop it. Quentin Richardson is now nothing more than a lazy fatass who camps 25 feet from the hoop and chucks 3's when he catches the ball. The same thing would have happened to JJ. Any individual offense JJ had begun to develop would have deteriorated under D'antoni.

It just keeps getting better and better with you.

So when D'Antoni took over as JJ's coach, he was a kid who couldnt and wouldnt shoot from anywhere on the court.

Under 1.5 years of D'Antoni, Joe went from scrub to top-20 talent. Yet you think that this tremendous curve would have peaked and started to drift down under D'Antoni? He would have became lazy like Q and became a chucker? Do you KNOW what an idiot you sound like?

Just STOP POSTING.

Or better yet...Im just gonna stop reading. Your conclusions are RIDICULOUS. You make these matter-of-fact statements based off absurd assumptions (anything that happens to Q will happen to ALL players under Mike D) and even more absurd observations (to say that Amare lost a post game under Mike D....this post game never existed....Ive watched him his entire career from day one). You absolutely suck. You are an embarrassment to our fanbase.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So when D'Antoni took over as JJ's coach, he was a kid who couldnt and wouldnt shoot from anywhere on the court.
And like I said, player development was far more important during the 2003-2004 season than winning, so D'antoni had no problem letting him and Amare develop. From 2005-2008, was there any aspect of Amare's game other than his jump shot that had one iota of improvement?


Under 1.5 years of D'Antoni, Joe went from scrub to top-20 talent.
He was not a top 20 talent when he left the Suns, he averaged 15.6 PPG in 2005 and didn't even sniff the AS game, no one in their right mind considered him a top 20 talent back then. His 2004-2005 stats were nearly identical to his 2003-2004 stats.....he would have never developed into anything more than the 2005 JJ


Yet you think that this tremendous curve would have peaked and started to drift down under D'Antoni?
Yes I do, there's no way JJ would have been able to develop into the player capable of carrying a team to 50 wins (like the player he is now and clearly wasn't in 2005) when the ball is in Nash's hands 90+% of the time. D'antoni's system made it impossible for players to develop anything other than their spot up jump shot. While he was coach here, not one player developed their game in any way other than an improved jump shot.


He would have became lazy like Q and became a chucker? Do you KNOW what an idiot you sound like?
I can guarantee you I'm not enough of an idiot to honestly believe that you "hated D'antoni as much as the next guy" when you make excuses anytime there is ever criticism towards him. It's blatantly ovious you're a D'antoni apologist, regardless of how much you say you hated him, and you've got some inexplicable blind loyalty to him.



Or better yet...Im just gonna stop reading. Your conclusions are RIDICULOUS. You make these matter-of-fact statements based off absurd assumptions (anything that happens to Q will happen to ALL players under Mike D) and even more absurd observations (to say that Amare lost a post game under Mike D....this post game never existed....Ive watched him his entire career from day one). You absolutely suck.
You're telling me that you did not see Amare begin to develop a post game during the 2003-2004 season? You can't be serious. I remember a specific play that was compared to an Hakeem Olajuwon post move where he span off the dribble then dunked while his defender was frozen. He obviously was developing some kind of individual game seeing that he averaged 20+ points that season when the majority of games were played without a PG who could create anything. I'm not saying he ever was a completely polished post scorer but anyone with the IQ of snale could see him developing a post game during the 2003-2004 season.

[da_suns_fan]

And like I said, player development was far more important during the 2003-2004 season than winning, so D'antoni had no problem letting him and Amare develop. From 2005-2008, was there any aspect of Amare's game other than his jump shot that had one iota of improvement?


He was not a top 20 talent when he left the Suns, he averaged 15.6 PPG in 2005 and didn't even sniff the AS game...............................

Didnt even bother to read the rest..knew that stat was WRONG:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=1007

WTF? Did you just make that stat up?

[da_suns_fan]

Yes I do, there's no way JJ would have been able to develop into the player capable of carrying a team to 50 wins (like the player he is now and clearly wasn't in 2005) when the ball is in Nash's hands 90+% of the time. D'antoni's system made it impossible for players to develop anything other than their spot up jump shot. While he was coach here, not one player developed their game in any way other than an improved jump shot.


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

THIS is what Im talking about. Its as if youve never even seen the Suns play and just read stupid talking points from Suns haters on Spurs talk.

No one ever developed a game outside of a jump shot for D'Anotni? Are you fucking kidding me?


Diaw Named Most Improved Player Phoenix Suns guard/forward/center Boris Diaw was officially named the NBA's Most Improved Player of the Year during a press conference at US Airways Center on May 1. The 24-year-old Frenchman averaged a well-rounded 13.3 points, 6.9 boards and 6.9 assists a game in 2005-06, after being acquired from the Hawks in the offseason deal that sent Joe Johnson to Atlanta



PHOENIX -- Leandro Barbosa, among the fastest players in the NBA, ran away with the league's sixth man award Monday.

The "Brazilian Blur" received 101 of a possible 127 first-place votes from a media panel.

The honor came one day after Barbosa matched his career playoff high with 26 points in the Phoenix Suns' 95-87 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers Sunday in Game 1 of their opening series.

You are such a FUCKING IDIOT. Just STOP TYPING.

btw - If you had a fucking clue, you would know that Amare really improved his jump shot working with Frank Johnson. I wouldnt have given D'Antoni credit. But then again, youre fucking clueless. Or Worthless. Probably both.

[Obstructed_View]

Findog already explained that Nellie never leaves if Nash is still there, and yeah it had a lot to do with Avery Johnson, but they weren't going to make that defensive leap as long as Nash is on the team, and given how Nash clashed with a coach who liked to micro-manage anything, it's fair to say Nash and Avery wouldn't have been able to co-exist.

If Nash had stayed, there may not have been any need to make a defensive leap. Nash has been about as good a point guard as there is since he left, and has built himself a hall of fame worthy career. For all the good letting him go for nothing did them, it's pretty clear that the decision to do so because he was physically breaking down was a poor choice.

[da_suns_fan]

Bump.

Cuban chose Dampier over Nash and Dampier didnt even play tonight.

I thought Diop was more efficient against Duncan and I believe Haywood is more effective now.