Game 6 officials

[FromWayDowntown]

We'll likely know who the Game 6 chief will be shortly. Whomever among Joey Crawford, Joe Derosa, and Ed Rush isn't working tonight is our guy.

[Warlord23]

^^ 2 out of those 3 spell trouble for us

[polandprzem]

not necessary 2 of them has to work today

Damn I wanted to make this thread

[polandprzem]

DeRosa and Salvatore


That leaving us to Joe or rush


disaster

[polandprzem]

Joey Crawford
or
Ed F. Rush


Phoenix most probable will get mauer or dan crawford

Rush was at the bux game lately
Joey was at Phoenix
both on 26th

The key was Joey at the bux game, he is not officiating there


I'd rather have Crawford

[polandprzem]

To make it clear - Suns had Joey and Rush already so I think there is no key leading to a ref that will be in San Antonio

[Stamm32089]

If Joey Crawford is reffing Game 6...the NBA is rigged.

[rjv]

methinks we are going to see a joey crawford sighting.

[sa_butta]

To hell with Joey Crawford, play the game, limit the turnovers and we should be fine. Officials will not decide the game... We decide our own fate.

[rjv]

To hell with Joey Crawford, play the game, limit the turnovers and we should be fine. Officials will not decide the game... We decide our own fate.

agreed. spurs just need to make the refs a non-factor.

[temujin]

To hell with Joey Crawford, play the game, limit the turnovers and we should be fine. Officials will not decide the game... We decide our own fate.

Officials ALWAYS decide the game.
Even when you think you have decided it, it's only because they let YOU decide the game.

They have the final word.

[temujin]

If Joey Crawford is reffing Game 6...the NBA is rigged.

Crawford has reffed a lot of key playoffs game across the league.

Wouldn't it be great to have a Game 7 in this series, NBA-wise?

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm convinced that it's Joey. I was going to post this earlier, but was in the middle of something.

Assuming that the NBA makes its officiating schedule out at least a few games in advance (I'm of the opinion that the schedule is set before a round begins -- and perhaps even before the playoffs begin), then Derosa and Rush would have worked tonight. Obviously, Derosa is working, but Rush was the only available official to work what would have been Game 5 of the Charlotte/Orlando series.

Assuming that to be true, that leaves only Joey Crawford or Joe Derosa to work Game 6 of Spurs/Mavericks, but since Derosa is working tonight, in Atlanta, that should leave only Joey to work Spurs/Mavs on Thursday.

[Stamm32089]

Crawford has reffed a lot of key playoffs game across the league.

Wouldn't it be great to have a Game 7 in this series, NBA-wise?

Well, sure. I know Stern would have liked to see this thing go 7. IMO, the only real shot we have at beating a healthy Spurs team in San Antonio is by rigged reffing. But honestly, I'll take a rigged Game 6, if it means the Mavs win :hat

[FromWayDowntown]

As for the other 2 officials for Game 6, I think they come from this pool:

Tony Brothers
Sean Corbin
Bill Spooner
Derrick Stafford
Tom Washington
Leon Wood

[samikeyp]

Officials ALWAYS decide the game.
Even when you think you have decided it, it's only because they let YOU decide the game.

They have the final word.

I disagree. Refs don't cause players to miss shots, miss free throws or throw the ball away. I think they can have an effect on the game but I also know that players can play through it.

[DesignatedT]

rush has been letting them play this playoffs. his crew averages the least amount of fouls called per game.

i would rather have rush. he seems to be favoring home teams significantly this postseason so far.

[DesignatedT]

joey working will be a bad bad thing. especially when the crowd starts talking shit to him constantly and chanting "joey sucks" because it will happen.

[polandprzem]

I'm convinced that it's Joey. I was going to post this earlier, but was in the middle of something.

Assuming that the NBA makes its officiating schedule out at least a few games in advance (I'm of the opinion that the schedule is set before a round begins -- and perhaps even before the playoffs begin), then Derosa and Rush would have worked tonight. Obviously, Derosa is working, but Rush was the only available official to work what would have been Game 5 of the Charlotte/Orlando series.

Assuming that to be true, that leaves only Joey Crawford or Joe Derosa to work Game 6 of Spurs/Mavericks, but since Derosa is working tonight, in Atlanta, that should leave only Joey to work Spurs/Mavs on Thursday.

Here is the key then if it's true

Good


Now I would take brothers and corbin
It would be a nice squad

crawford
cobin
brothers

[FromWayDowntown]

Here is the key then if it's true

Again, that assumes that the league won't alter the schedule once some of the other series are decided.

Had Charlotte and Orlando gone out to Game 5 (which would have been tonight), only Foster, Mauer, McCutchen, and Rush could have been the lead official for that game. Foster, Mauer, and McCutchen all worked last night.

That leaves only Rush to have worked CHA/ORL Game 5.

And if the schedule is what I think it is, then SA/DAL Game 6 could only have drawn Joey Crawford, Derosa, or Rush as the lead official; but Derosa and Rush either are or would have been working tonight. That leaves only Joey.

It will be interesting to see if the apparent schedule of the officials will be altered now that some of the first rounders have ended. I think the assignments tomorrow will say something about that.

[Flux451]

At least J Cro would handle the wresting proper. Najera was getting away with some bs last game.

[nkdlunch]

:pctoss

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0705/joey_crawford_0502.jpg

[polandprzem]

Again, that assumes that the league won't alter the schedule once some of the other series are decided.

Had Charlotte and Orlando gone out to Game 5 (which would have been tonight), only Foster, Mauer, McCutchen, and Rush could have been the lead official for that game. Foster, Mauer, and McCutchen all worked last night.

That leaves only Rush to have worked CHA/ORL Game 5.

And if the schedule is what I think it is, then SA/DAL Game 6 could only have drawn Joey Crawford, Derosa, or Rush as the lead official; but Derosa and Rush either are or would have been working tonight. That leaves only Joey.

It will be interesting to see if the apparent schedule of the officials will be altered now that some of the first rounders have ended. I think the assignments tomorrow will say something about that.

Yup I knew all that except the orl/cha series which I did not reviewed
You had it - thanks :toast

So we are getting Joey C. and I'm more fine with that then with Rush.

[DBMethos]

Get ready for Joey to run in, smack Manu's nose, call a flagrant 2 on Manu for fouling himself, then hit Timmy, Tony and Pop with technicals as they protest. And an extra technical on Hill too, due to penis envy.

[timvp]

I don't think that Joey Crawford is a bad ref. I do think that his presence gives TD and the Spurs something else to worry about other than the already difficult task of beating the Mavs. In other words, this sucks.

[Spurs Brazil]

I'd rather see Joey than Rush. Rush is the worst ref in the NBA

[EricB]

I don't think that Joey Crawford is a bad ref. I do think that his presence gives TD and the Spurs something else to worry about other than the already difficult task of beating the Mavs. In other words, this sucks.


Then pop needs to smack Duncan in the mouth and say play the f'ing game...

[easjer]

I don't think that Joey Crawford is a bad ref. I do think that his presence gives TD and the Spurs something else to worry about other than the already difficult task of beating the Mavs. In other words, this sucks.

My hope is they'll go out there expecting to play 5 on 8 and play harder and smarter because of it, instead of assuming they'll be given an advantage because they are at home.

They need to go out and play well from the beginning; maybe this will serve as motivation to focus on playing rather than relying on calls. The only way to ever avoid unfair officiating is to play so that it becomes irrelevant. If they are going to play as if the game is biased and have a defeatist attitude because Joey Crawford shows up (as they know he will in the course of the playoffs), they may as well play the scrubs and rest up for game 7 in Dallas.

[E-RockWill]

Tonight, Bucks vs. Hawks
#14 Joe DeRosa, #27 Dick Bavetta, #34 Marc Davis

[Spursmania]

Fuck!!!!!!!

[Bartleby]

Stern's been saving this ace for a special occasion.

[Spursmania]

Get ready for Joey to run in, smack Manu's nose, call a flagrant 2 on Manu for fouling himself, then hit Timmy, Tony and Pop with technicals as they protest. And an extra technical on Hill too, due to penis envy.

:lol

[DesignatedT]

:smchode:

[mavsfan1000]

Stern will go with Danny Crawford in game 7 to screw the mavs.

[ElNono]

Picking between Joey Crawford and Eddie Rush is like picking between a turd sandwich and a giant douche... And it could get worse. Tony Brothers may join the party too.

FML

[vander]

Officials ALWAYS decide the game.
Even when you think you have decided it, it's only because they let YOU decide the game.

They have the final word.

when you think about all the close calls, non-calls, controversial calls over the course of a game, and how many points are put on or not put on the board because of them. even the same crew, if put in all those exact situations again, would call it differently, inevitably changing the score of the same game.

so you can imagine, with a different crew in a different game, even if all refs are trying to call it as fair as they can, the final score is going to be 80% - 85% players, 15% - 20% refs, and that's enough to effect the outcome of most games

[ElNono]

My biggest beef is that if they don't allow us to play physical in our own homecourt, we're going to be screwed. Dallas wins the finesse game...

[nbaman99]

No matter who officiate game 6 it will be at home.

[spursfan09]

Do certain refs really psyche the players out? It shouldn't? And if you know it does, then keep your mind only on the task at hand.

[TDMVPDPOY]

no time for excuses, we got every chip all-in and waitin for the river

[E-RockWill]

Tonight, Jazz vs. Nuggets
Bennett Salvatore
Ron Garretson
Ed Malloy


So Joey it is......

[DesignatedT]

Fuck

[Shank]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1ytCEuuW2_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1ytCEuuW2_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[cd98]

Well I hope he doesn't swallow his whistle like he did when Brent was fouled on that three in the playoffs a few years back. Just what we need is another apology from the league the day after a bad loss.

[Leetonidas]

Jesus fucking Christ, stop whining about the officials. If the Spurs come out focused and on a mission tomorrow, we'll have nothing to worry about.

[Brodels]

All they can do is just go out and play. If they're really worried about Joey, they have no business winning a playoff series.

Besides, even with the history, I don't think there's that much to worry about with Joey. He and everyone else are under such scrutiny; this is the biggest stage. I expect him to make some bad calls, but the same should be expected from some of the other pieces of turds that could have been assigned to this game.

[BanditHiro]

vaZIAXJJDKQ

fuck our lives

[cd98]

Hope are players don't lose focus when that happens to us.

[MavDynasty]

vaziaxjjdkq

fuck our lives

wtf?

[50 cent]

It's unbelievable that Stern would even continue to set himself up for any perception of impropriety, but I guess he just doesn't give a shit.

[LakerLanny]

I'd rather see Joey than Rush. Rush is the worst ref in the NBA

Unless you are a Celtic.

Check out Boston's playoff record in games Rush "officiated" in 2008 during their "title" run vs. their playoff record in games he did not.

Bottom line, the guy should have been given a retired jersey at the Fleet Center.....he was the key guy to that "title".

[LakerLanny]

It's unbelievable that Stern would even continue to set himself up for any perception of impropriety, but I guess he just doesn't give a shit.

He certainly didn't care when he used his officials to rig the 2004 NBA Finals.

Four jump ball violations to open the first four games of the NBA Finals? You have got to be kidding me, welcome to David Stern's version of the World Wrestling Federation.

[EmptyMan]

The NBA is a business.

Why would any business trash the integrity of their business by continuing to allow an obviously biased ref (J Craw) to have any authority over a player they have had a public negative altercation with???


You T'd up a player for laughing on the bench you Elmer Fudd MF'er. Just fall on the sword ffs.

[ace3g]

http://www.nba.com/news/referee.html

[itzsoweezee]

vaZIAXJJDKQ

fuck our lives

wow, that is downright pathetic

[polandprzem]

Wasn't it the spurs who monitored the refs to see what they like to whistle?

[Obstructed_View]

Either way, the Spurs are stupid for not just putting it away when they had the chance. If they get screwed by the refs I'm perfectly happy to remember that they failed to show up for game five.

[polandprzem]

I'm realy surprised that so many people here takes the refs squad so seriously.

[hsxvvd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI1NrcnIH00&feature=related

[George Gervin's Afro]

either way, the spurs are stupid for not just putting it away when they had the chance. If they get screwed by the refs i'm perfectly happy to remember that they failed to show up for game five.

+1

[TampaDude]

Unless you are a Celtic.

Check out Boston's playoff record in games Rush "officiated" in 2008 during their "title" run vs. their playoff record in games he did not.

Bottom line, the guy should have been given a retired jersey at the Fleet Center.....he was the key guy to that "title".

The 39-point assraping the Celtics gave the Lakers in Game 6 played a big part in that, too. :lol

[TampaDude]

Eddie or Joey??? Pick your poison...

[TampaDude]

Dallas @ San Antonio: Eddie F. Rush, Bill Spooner, Tom Washington

Oh, shit...it's Rush...we better win tonight...Stern is saving Joey for Game 7.

NO GAME 7, GUYS!!!

[alchemist]

Dallas @ San Antonio
Eddie F. Rush
Bill Spooner
Tom Washington

http://www.nba.com/news/referee.html

It's official.

[Muser]

Should've turned up for game 5...

[Mal]

Joey for g7. Win it now

[Spurs Brazil]

Dallas @ San Antonio
Eddie F. Rush
Bill Spooner
Tom Washington

http://www.nba.com/news/referee.html

It's official.

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Rush is much worst than Crawford

[ecksrobecks]

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Rush is much worst than Crawford

why do you say that?

[41times]

Eddie Rush confirmed.

What is the Spurs record with Rush?

[alchemist]

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Rush is much worst than Crawford
http://www.nbastuffer.com/referee_stats

He's not bad for Home teams, lets hope it remains that way :toast.

[TampaDude]

vaZIAXJJDKQ

fuck our lives

WTF??? Seriously, WHAT...THE...FUCK??? :lmao

[MavDynasty]

Rush isn't biased like Dan Crawford or Joey Crawford but he does fucking suck.

[polandprzem]

RUSH ?

Holy madafuckin' fvck

haha could it be worse?

[TampaDude]

http://www.nbastuffer.com/referee_stats

He's not bad for Home teams, lets hope it remains that way :toast.

Yeah...Rush has been very good for home teams so far this postseason. This may not be so bad, after all.

We MUST win tonight, though...we WILL see Joey in Game 7 if it gets that far...he's the only one left, and you KNOW he's slated for Game 7. That would be disaster for the Spurs.

[polandprzem]

BTW.

FWDT - What does it mean? That the leauge changed the rules or the leauge is not set with the refs from the getgo?

[CubanMustGo]

Monty's crew (now 5-5 with a 15.8 ppg advantage for the home team) delivered on Tuesday .... let's hope Rush's (4-4, 14.5) can do the same. :tu

[Shank]

Mavs have very good records with all 3 officials.

[41times]

Monty's crew (now 5-5 with a 15.8 ppg advantage for the home team) delivered on Tuesday .... let's hope Rush's (4-4, 14.5) can do the same. :tu

I would say the Spurs are in great shape tonight then.

[easjer]

My hope is they'll go out there expecting to play 5 on 8 and play harder and smarter because of it, instead of assuming they'll be given an advantage because they are at home.

They need to go out and play well from the beginning; maybe this will serve as motivation to focus on playing rather than relying on calls. The only way to ever avoid unfair officiating is to play so that it becomes irrelevant. If they are going to play as if the game is biased and have a defeatist attitude because Joey Crawford shows up (as they know he will in the course of the playoffs), they may as well play the scrubs and rest up for game 7 in Dallas.

^ That hasn't changed with the subsitution of Rush for Crawford.

[John Terry]

Well, sure. I know Stern would have liked to see this thing go 7. IMO, the only real shot we have at beating a healthy Spurs team in San Antonio is by rigged reffing. But honestly, I'll take a rigged Game 6, if it means the Mavs win :hat

And the Mavs will be the team Stern favours in Game 7, in the inured way how the scale is set unbalanced in games between Mavs and Spurs. Take 2006 2nd round for example.

[mogrovejo]

Unless you are a Celtic.

Check out Boston's playoff record in games Rush "officiated" in 2008 during their "title" run vs. their playoff record in games he did not.

Bottom line, the guy should have been given a retired jersey at the Fleet Center.....he was the key guy to that "title".

Wow, LakerLanny, still going strong on his never ending internet crusade to prove Stern is an evil individual whose only goal in life is to stop Los Angeles from dominating the NBA by maintaining a huge scheme of officiating corruption.

I'll never forget LakerLanny terrorizing the usenet newsgroups in the 90s, bitching about how Tommy Nunez,Dick Bavetta and Hugh Evans were preventing Ceballos, Divac and Nick van Exel from winning a ring every season. I was a kid and was hugely impressed by his tenacity and all the numbers he had. Heck, the simple fact he knew the name of all the referees and which games they did and the fouls and all that was impressive. I thought he was crazy, but I was impressed by how prepared he looked. When he was everywhere insisting that the Lakers had to overcome terrible officiating against them to beat the Kings in 2002 I knew something was very wrong.:lol In the 08 finals he was in every Celtics site explaining how the Lakers would blow out the Cs by 40 points every game if it wasn't the referees. Nice to see you still around, man. :toast

Here's a thorough refutation of LakerLanny claims if anyone is interested:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=18985.msg299735#msg299735

----------


I find it amazing how much Spurs fans bitch about referees. When it was Crawford, it was Stern making sure there's going to be a game 7. Now that it's Rush afterall, it's still Stern picking a guy that will assure there's going to be a game 7.

If anything, Rush tends to be a homer ref, at least from my observations.

[FromWayDowntown]

BTW.

FWDT - What does it mean? That the leauge changed the rules or the leauge is not set with the refs from the getgo?

I think it means that the league does some adjusting as the rounds progress and that the schedule that's set early on is not absolute.

One thing I noticed this morning is that Rush was behind the other chiefs in terms of games officiated to date in Round 1. Through last night's games, all of the chiefs other than Rush had called 5 games:

D. Crawford - 5
J. Crawford - 5
Derosa - 5
Foster - 5
Mauer - 5
McCutchen - 5
Rush - 4
Salvatore - 5

In light of that, I think the league may have chosen to balance the assignments out to avoid overworking the chiefs this early in the playoffs. I don't find any sort of sinister motivation here and don't necessarily think this means Joey Crawford would have Game 7 of Dallas/San Antonio. Historically, the league hasn't been afraid of recycling officials in a series for a Game 7; in 2008, when the Spurs and Hornets went out to a 7th game, the league assigned Javie, Bavetta, and Foster to that Game -- Javie had called Game 3 of that series and Bavetta had called Game 2. It's still possible, of course, that Joey would get a Game 7 (in fact, I think it would be probable unless there's another Game 7 in close proximity), but it's not a guaranteed deal.

[sribb43]

www.nbastuffer.com/referee_stats

looks like Rush is a home team guy. Here are his stats in 4 playoff games this year

4 games
home team win 100%
+14.5 home team pt diff
home team called for 41.7% of fouls
road team called for 58.3% of fouls :wow

His home/road foul splits in the playoffs look to be one of the worst amng officials in the playoffs

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

RUSH ?

Holy madafuckin' fvck

haha could it be worse?



:wtf

Rush is traditionally a home team ref. Let's hope it stays that way.

[FromWayDowntown]

My numbers are that the Spurs are 9-15 in playoff games that Rush has officiated since 1998. They're 6-5 at home and 3-10 on the road. They're also 0-4 against Dallas in Rush officiated games, having lost Game 3 in 2009 (in Dallas), Game 2 in 2006 (in SA), Game 5 in 2003 (in SA), and Game 4 in 2001 (in Dallas).

The Metroplex should be rejoicing, I think. By Mavfan logic, the Spurs' very own Dan Crawford is in San Antonio tonight.

[FromWayDowntown]

By contrast, since 2001, I have the Mavs being 9-3 when Rush officiates and 4-1 on the road in those games (the lone loss was Game 6 of the 2005 First Round in Houston):

2001 WCFR (3) v. UTH -- W
2001 WCSF (4) v. SA -- W
2003 WCSF (2) v. SAC -- W
2003 WCSF (7) v. SAC -- W
2003 WCF (5) at SA -- W
2005 WCFR (6) at HOU -- L
2005 WCSF (3) v. PNX -- L
2006 WCSF (2) at SA -- W
2006 WCF (3) at PNX -- W
2006 NBAF (2) v. MIA -- W
2006 NBAF (6) v. MIA -- L
2009 WCFR (3) v. SA -- W

[rogcl1]

Officials ALWAYS decide the game.
Even when you think you have decided it, it's only because they let YOU decide the game.

They have the final word.

BS, refs don't control the spurs intensity, concentration , or turnovers. If the Spurs bring their game ,they have a shot at winning. That simple.
If either team gets caught up worrying about the ref thing , then they will lose.Worry about what you can control(your game) not the refs.

[EricB]

Between rush and Crawford I'd rather have Crawford but nothin u can do about it. Just go balls out and win the GD game.

[FromWayDowntown]

I must say that I would be fascinated to see what will happen among the respective fan bases if there's a Game 7 and somehow the league assigns both Joey Crawford and Danny Crawford to that game.

I think the universe might end right there and then.

Were I in charge of assigning officials, I'd be sure that got done.

[FromWayDowntown]

Between rush and Crawford I'd rather have Crawford but nothin u can do about it. Just go balls out and win the GD game.

The Spurs must play hard and play well. That would be true no matter who the officials are. I don't think officiating changes a team's effort and I don't think it decides the outcomes of games unless a team chooses to permit that to happen. Effort, attention to details, and focus are what win and lose games at this level.

[sribb43]

I must say that I would be fascinated to see what will happen among the respective fan bases if there's a Game 7 and somehow the league assigns both Joey Crawford and Danny Crawford to that game.

I think the universe might end right there and then.

Were I in charge of assigning officials, I'd be sure that got done.

:lol that would be some crazy shit

[polandprzem]

:wtf

Rush is traditionally a home team ref. Let's hope it stays that way.


My numbers are that the Spurs are 9-15 in playoff games that Rush has officiated since 1998. They're 6-5 at home and 3-10 on the road. They're also 0-4 against Dallas in Rush officiated games, having lost Game 3 in 2009 (in Dallas), Game 2 in 2006 (in SA), Game 5 in 2003 (in SA), and Game 4 in 2001 (in Dallas).

The Metroplex should be rejoicing, I think. By Mavfan logic, the Spurs' very own Dan Crawford is in San Antonio tonight.


By contrast, since 2001, I have the Mavs being 9-3 when Rush officiates and 4-1 on the road in those games (the lone loss was Game 6 of the 2005 First Round in Houston):

2001 WCFR (3) v. UTH -- W
2001 WCSF (4) v. SA -- W
2003 WCSF (2) v. SAC -- W
2003 WCSF (7) v. SAC -- W
2003 WCF (5) at SA -- W
2005 WCFR (6) at HOU -- L
2005 WCSF (3) v. PNX -- L
2006 WCSF (2) at SA -- W
2006 WCF (3) at PNX -- W
2006 NBAF (2) v. MIA -- W
2006 NBAF (6) v. MIA -- L
2009 WCFR (3) v. SA -- W


Thanks From Way Down :toast

[Flux451]

Rruuuuusssshhhhh!!! Nnooooo!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

Since I did it for the Mavs games with Rush, here's what I have on Rush with the Spurs in playoff games since 1998:

1998 WCSF (5) at UTH -- L
1999 WCF (1) v. PRT -- W
2001 WCSF (4) at DAL -- L
2001 WCF (4) at LAL -- L
2002 WCSF (3) v. LAL -- L
2003 WCFR (1) v. PNX -- L
2003 WCSF (1) v. LAL -- W
2003 WCF (5) v. DAL -- L
2003 NBAF (4) at NJ -- L
2004 WCFR (2) v. MEM -- W
2004 WCSF (6) at LAL -- L
2005 WCFR (1) v. DEN -- L
2005 WCF (5) at PNX -- W
2005 NBAF (4) at DET -- L
2005 NBAF (7) v. DET -- W
2006 WCFR (3) at SAC -- L
2006 WCSF (2) v. DAL -- L
2007 WCFR (4) at DEN -- W
2007 WCSF (3) v. PNX -- W
2007 WCF (3) at UTH -- L
2007 NBAF (4) at CLE -- W
2008 WCSF (1) at NO -- L
2008 WCF (3) v. LAL -- W
2009 WCFR (3) at DAL -- L

[ecksrobecks]

notice how every time it says DAL there's an L next to it

[easjer]

I must say that I would be fascinated to see what will happen among the respective fan bases if there's a Game 7 and somehow the league assigns both Joey Crawford and Danny Crawford to that game.

I think the universe might end right there and then.

Were I in charge of assigning officials, I'd be sure that got done.

:rollin

I was just coming in to ask if such a thing were possible. It would rock my world.

[Spurminator]

The Spurs must play hard and play well. That would be true no matter who the officials are. I don't think officiating changes a team's effort and I don't think it decides the outcomes of games unless a team chooses to permit that to happen. Effort, attention to details, and focus are what win and lose games at this level.

There's a part of me that would love to see this. I bet there would be a ton of reversed calls.

[easjer]

Since I did it for the Mavs games with Rush, here's what I have on Rush with the Spurs in playoff games since 1998:

1998 WCSF (5) at UTH -- L
1999 WCF (1) v. PRT -- W
2001 WCSF (4) at DAL -- L
2001 WCF (4) at LAL -- L
2002 WCSF (3) v. LAL -- L
2003 WCFR (1) v. PNX -- L
2003 WCSF (1) v. LAL -- W
2003 WCF (5) v. DAL -- L
2003 NBAF (4) at NJ -- L
2004 WCFR (2) v. MEM -- W
2004 WCSF (6) at LAL -- L
2005 WCFR (1) v. DEN -- L
2005 WCF (5) at PNX -- W
2005 NBAF (4) at DET -- L
2005 NBAF (7) v. DET -- W
2006 WCFR (3) at SAC -- L
2006 WCSF (2) v. DAL -- L
2007 WCFR (4) at DEN -- W
2007 WCSF (3) v. PNX -- W
2007 WCF (3) at UTH -- L
2007 NBAF (4) at CLE -- W
2008 WCSF (1) at NO -- L
2008 WCF (3) v. LAL -- W
2009 WCFR (3) at DAL -- L

Serious question, because I'm lazy and fatigued and can't remember all of these individual games. Are there any that stand out particularly in terms of team play and/or officiating? Meaning, X game was a total blowout, or Y game had a controversial call, etc.

Off the top of my head, it seems to me that the 2005 games were legit wins/losses and unaffected by officiating. I'm just wondering whether there is any actual info behind the numbers, in other words.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You can't tell me Rush is worse than J. Crawford for the Spurs.

He always favors the home team, and the games that the Spurs lost against the Mavs, how many of them were actually all that close? We got blown out in game 2 of 2006, we got blown out in game 3 of 2009.

The only "close" game would be 2003, game 5. So unless the Spurs are getting blown out because Rush calls terrible fouls that throws them out of whack, then so be it. But either way, if we're getting a controversial official, I'd much much it rather be at home, than on the road.

And I'd pick Rush over Crawford any day of the week.

[FromWayDowntown]

Serious question, because I'm lazy and fatigued and can't remember all of these individual games. Are there any that stand out particularly in terms of team play and/or officiating? Meaning, X game was a total blowout, or Y game had a controversial call, etc.

Off the top of my head, it seems to me that the 2005 games were legit wins/losses and unaffected by officiating. I'm just wondering whether there is any actual info behind the numbers, in other words.

Oh, I don't know. There are several absolute blowouts among the Spurs' losses in those games -- 2009 at Dallas; 2008 at New Orleans; 2007 at Salt Lake City; 2006 vs. Dallas; 2005 at Detroit; 2001 at Los Angeles.

There are also a number of very close losses that were decided in a way that I think had little to do with officiating. Rush had Game 1 of the Phoenix series in 2003, in which regulation ended with Stoudemire banking in a 3 to tie the game and overtime ended on Marbury's improbable heave as time expired. Rush had Game 3 of the Sacramento series in 2006, which ended on Artest's strip of Manu and Kevin Martin's buzzer-beating layup. Rush had Game 4 of the 2003 NBA Finals, which the Spurs lost by 1; Duncan and Robinson each had some foul issues in that game, but I don't recall feeling as though it had been called unfairly.

[z0sa]

I know I'm in the minority with these opinions, but Joey Crawford is one of the best officials out there.

Not only that, I actually think he shows a slight bias TOWARDS the Spurs now, because of their obvious history. Essentially, he makes sure he calls the game where no one can accuse him of holding a bias against Tim.

NO ref is perfect, and the history between the Spurs and Crawford makes all kinds of red flags appear, but Joey is one of the best out there.

[SpurAddict561]

It is truly pathetic the league has come to this that we have to look at the stats we have with certain refs at the helm.


wow

[easjer]

So while the data doesn't look promising at first glance - there isn't necessarily a great deal to back up the idea that Rush = Doom for the Spurs.

Again, though, as you say - good play trumps all. If they are focused and serious, I believe they've got this in the bag. If not, well, they will be a great disappointment - greater even than that atrocity that was Game 5.

[FromWayDowntown]

The only "close" game would be 2003, game 5.

That game was close only because the Spurs came to a stand-still and couldn't execute when the Mavs dropped into a zone. Meanwhile, the Mavs played an absolutely exceptional second half and earned that win.

The Spurs were up by almost 20 in the third quarter of that game, but had a very long drought without a field goal at a crucial juncture and the Mavs just poured it on behind a huge effort from Michael Finley.

From a recap of that game:


The Spurs scored just one basket -- a dunk by Duncan off a great save by David Robinson -- in the first 9½ minutes of the fourth quarter. During that stretch, they watched an 81-74 advantage evaporate and become a 97-86 deficit.

I don't think officiating had anything to do with that.

[K-State Spur]

Not only that, I actually think he shows a slight bias TOWARDS the Spurs now, because of their obvious history. Essentially, he makes sure he calls the game where no one can accuse him of holding a bias against Tim.

When he first came back, I semi-expected to see this scenario unfold.

But I absolutely disagree that he has actually done so.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

ahhh gotcha, so this brings my next question:

Is it really so terrible Eddie Rush is officiating when the Spurs don't really seem to let him get into their heads the same way they do Joey Crawford?

[FromWayDowntown]

I know I'm in the minority with these opinions, but Joey Crawford is one of the best officials out there.

Not only that, I actually think he shows a slight bias TOWARDS the Spurs now, because of their obvious history. Essentially, he makes sure he calls the game where no one can accuse him of holding a bias against Tim.

NO ref is perfect, and the history between the Spurs and Crawford makes all kinds of red flags appear, but Joey is one of the best out there.

There's a reason that Joey Crawford just called his 300th NBA playoff game and a reason why he's been calling the NBA Finals since 1986 (with the exception of 2007). He's among the elite game-callers in the league and in the world. When he chooses to just call the game, he's absolutely exceptional and deserves to be a Hall of Famer because of that.

[barbacoataco]

It seems there are 3 issues concerning refs fairness:

1. Some refs are biased against certain players/teams
2. Fans think the NBA/Stern controls games for the league's interests
3. Gambling interests affect the outcomes of games

It is interesting that most of this board is dicussing the first two problems. But Donaghy was accused of fixing games for gamblers and I think that is actually a big part of the problem.

[z0sa]

Agreed, FromWayDowntown. It's too bad that Joey has negatively impacted Spurs history (at least compared with most refs and their influence on any franchise). When there's a big playoff game like tonight, you want a ref like Joey or Steve Javie; someone who won't be intimidated by the circumstances, arena or the players.

[FromWayDowntown]

It seems there are 3 issues concerning refs fairness:

1. Some refs are biased against certain players/teams
2. Fans think the NBA/Stern controls games for the league's interests
3. Gambling interests affect the outcomes of games

It is interesting that most of this board is dicussing the first two problems. But Donaghy was accused of fixing games for gamblers and I think that is actually a big part of the problem.

To me, Donaghy is an outlier and I think that's why there's almost no discussion of #3 in the context of talking about NBA officiating. I suspect (without having proof) that you could break down the other two categories as being attributable to different constituencies.

I think that #1 above is a problem discussed most frequently by those in the league -- owners, coaches, players -- and that fans are brought to that discussion primarily by hearing those people bring it up. A classic example from the Spurs past is David Robinson's declaration in 1996 that Steve Javie had something personal against him; the Tim Duncan-Joey Crawford thing is a similar example, as is the Mavericks being convinced that Danny Crawford has something against them. I suspect that if you went to people associated with each NBA team, you'd find a consensus that some particular official has it in for that team.

I don't hear NBA personnel buying into #1 (both because it would cost them dearly to do so publicly and because I think that buying into that would be contrary to the competitive spirit that fuels players at this level), but I think fans in most NBA cities believe it to be true to some extent or another. Stern's regrettable statement several years ago that a Lakers versus Lakers Final would be ideal -- not too long after events like Jess Kersey awarding Larry Johnson a crucial free throw for an and-1 after a 3 in 1999, the upheaval of Game 6 of the 2002 WCF, and things like that -- only fuel the fire. I think fans are now inclined to see conspiracies where a call is missed, when there are disparities in free throw attempts or foul calls, or if a particular player seems unfairly beset by foul problems.

Frankly, of the issues with officiating, I think #2 is the biggest problem, but I also think it's not a problem that's unique to the NBA or curable as long as we rely on human beings to officiate games. Even if there isn't some bias, people will perceive calls that way.

[DesignatedT]

ill take rush over joey anyday! good news!

[MaNu4Tres]

hey Arodz you're late to the party bud.

[eric365]

Since I did it for the Mavs games with Rush, here's what I have on Rush with the Spurs in playoff games since 1998:

1998 WCSF (5) at UTH -- L
1999 WCF (1) v. PRT -- W
2001 WCSF (4) at DAL -- L
2001 WCF (4) at LAL -- L
2002 WCSF (3) v. LAL -- L
2003 WCFR (1) v. PNX -- L
2003 WCSF (1) v. LAL -- W
2003 WCF (5) v. DAL -- L
2003 NBAF (4) at NJ -- L
2004 WCFR (2) v. MEM -- W
2004 WCSF (6) at LAL -- L
2005 WCFR (1) v. DEN -- L
2005 WCF (5) at PNX -- W
2005 NBAF (4) at DET -- L
2005 NBAF (7) v. DET -- W
2006 WCFR (3) at SAC -- L
2006 WCSF (2) v. DAL -- L
2007 WCFR (4) at DEN -- W
2007 WCSF (3) v. PNX -- W
2007 WCF (3) at UTH -- L
2007 NBAF (4) at CLE -- W
2008 WCSF (1) at NO -- L
2008 WCF (3) v. LAL -- W
2009 WCFR (3) at DAL -- L

We don't have only bad memories with him
2 :lobt2: games with him :toast

[silverblk mystix]

Rush is worse than J Crawford...we are doomed...fuck!

only hope is that someone from the mavs pissed him off recently...

[Budkin]

Great fucking news!

[slayermin]

We don't have only bad memories with him
2 :lobt2: games with him :toast

I recall Salvatore worked with Rush in the game at Cleveland. None of that mattered though but it took forever to finish that game.

In 22 playoff games I have recorded for Rush since '01, our point differential average is -6.5 (PF Avg. 87.6, PA Avg. 94.1). Like it's been stated, he has been part of several blowouts against us for some reason. But surprisingly, our average free throw differential is a +3.1 (FTA Avg. 27.0, Opp FTA Avg. 23.9).

I have negative opinion towards him because our playoff winning pct. is way under .400 with him on the floor. Pop's playoff winning pct. was .619 before the game five loss. Sometimes things are just black and white. And when Rush is the ref, we lose.

[Slomo]

I must say that I would be fascinated to see what will happen among the respective fan bases if there's a Game 7 and somehow the league assigns both Joey Crawford and Danny Crawford to that game.

I think the universe might end right there and then.

Were I in charge of assigning officials, I'd be sure that got done.

:lol

You're all nice and polite on this board, but deep down you're a mean SOB aren't you?