If Lebron does'nt win a championship this season, is he the biggest choker

[ChrisRichards]

in the post Jordan era?


Basically, its two consecutive best regular season records and 2 MVP awards for the Cavs and James. This season, the Cavs are rock solid from 1-8, I think they have the deepest team in the league. Their only "real" opponent in the East is Orlando and if they pass that test, I think they will run a train on any Western Conference teams, specially the Lakers.


I look at recent history and I think Dirk nowitzki had the "best choker" title for the past few years. So, if Lebron fails to win a title this season, will people dub him as the leagues greatest choker until he wins one?

[D2Procon]

When a better team beats you and is up most of the time during the series, thats not a choke. When you choke a 2-0 series lead lose against an 8th seed, then thats considered choke, so no Dallas Mavericks will always be the chokers.

[lurker]

He's playing with a broken elbow!

[Thunder Dan]

Mavs are biggest chokers. They have made a living out of it.

[dirk4mvp]

Mavs are biggest chokers. They have made a living out of it.

Says Cavsfan. Maybe now Sunsfan can chime in!

[JoeTait75]

As long as LeBron is healthy and we don't have to play 5-on-8 like in the Chicago series we'll be all right in terms of winning the championship. No one in the West can deal with our team. Only Orlando can- and they won't.

[TheMACHINE]

simple...if Lebron doesnt win a ring this year, he has no excuses. Just another fail.

[Halberto]

I wouldn't call him a choke unless he plays bad. He was tearing Orlando up last season and made it to the conference finals. If the same happened again, it would smear his image but he wouldn't be a choke.

JoeTait, nobody in the west can compete with the Cavs? That's a bold statement. The Cavs will probably win, but it won't be a cake walk.

[oh crap]

lebron will not win a ring this year, book it.

[jonnybravo]

No way.

The fact that they even get where they are is because of Lebron.

[JoeTait75]

JoeTait, nobody in the west can compete with the Cavs? That's a bold statement. The Cavs will probably win, but it won't be a cake walk.

Fair enough. The Lakers and Spurs can certainly compete. Denver could if they were healthy and if George Karl was on the sideline. But I like this team's chances against anyone.

[nkdlunch]

a choker? r u retarded?

a choker is someone who loses to the 8th seed, or someone who loses after being up 2 and 1/2 games in a series.

lebron is still better than MJ and Magic at his age so far.

[ChrisRichards]

a choker? r u retarded?

a choker is someone who loses to the 8th seed, or someone who loses after being up 2 and 1/2 games in a series.

lebron is still better than MJ and Magic at his age so far.
You guys are about to beat the Mavs and you're still bitter?

[TheMACHINE]

a choker? r u retarded?

a choker is someone who loses to the 8th seed, or someone who loses after being up 2 and 1/2 games in a series.

lebron is still better than MJ and Magic at his age so far.

Lebron > MJ already

Lebron = GOAT

[MiamiHeat]

the Cavs are going to win the championship

but if they suffer no major injuries and still fail to win this year, then yeah, failure.

[Bob Lanier]

we don't have to play 5-on-8 like in the Chicago series
:wow
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[j.dizzle]

As long as Dwight is healthy and they don't have to play 5-on-8 like every other team vs Cle this year. A few teams in the West can deal with our team. Orlando can- and they will beat us if the refs dont give Lebron a bunch of phantom and 1's in the 4th quarters of close games.
FIFY:toast

[JamStone]

If LeBron is routinely putting up triple-double games and shooting around 50% from the field and the Cavs still lose, it's not a choke on LeBron's part.

[jonnybravo]

:wow
:lmao
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I had to tear someone a new a-hole for this. Some teams, if they're not outshooting the other guys from the FT 2 to 1...it means it's not fair. FFS.

[JoeTait75]

David Stern and his officials did everything in their power to extend this series if not hand it to Chicago entirely. I'm sure they'll re-double their efforts in the next round against Boston. The Cavaliers will have to accept this reality and overcome it.

[Cry Havoc]

simple...if Lebron doesnt win a ring this year, he has no excuses. Just another fail.

Put LeBron around a bunch of scrubs and they're favorites to go to the Finals.

Put Kobe around scrubs and they don't make the playoffs.

Hmmm.

[TheMACHINE]

Put LeBron around a bunch of scrubs and they're favorites to go to the Finals.

Put Kobe around scrubs and they don't make the playoffs.

Hmmm.

so what?...doesnt change the fact that if lebron doesnt win this year, he fails.

[Cry Havoc]

so what?...doesnt change the fact that if lebron doesnt win this year, he fails.

How is it his fault that he can "only" take a team to the Finals that Kobe wouldn't make the West playoffs with? You're calling someone out for being human? :lol

Gasol is 3 times better than anyone who's ever been on LeBron's team, and they still lost 2 games to an 8 seed. :lmao

[TheMACHINE]

How is it his fault that he can "only" take a team to the Finals that Kobe wouldn't make the West playoffs with? You're calling someone out for being human? :lol

Gasol is 3 times better than anyone who's ever been on LeBron's team, and they still lost 2 games to an 8 seed. :lmao

so what?...doesnt change the fact that if lebron doesnt win this year, he fails.

[TheNextGen]

Put LeBron around a bunch of scrubs and they're favorites to go to the Finals.

Put Kobe around scrubs and they don't make the playoffs.

Hmmm.

wtf. Are you saying that Shaq, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Big Z, and Varejao are a bunch of scrubs? :rolleyes

adn are you comparing these guys with a starting line up with Luke Walton, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown?!

[cobbler]

David Stern and his officials did everything in their power to extend this series if not hand it to Chicago entirely. I'm sure they'll re-double their efforts in the next round against Boston. The Cavaliers will have to accept this reality and overcome it.

You have got to be kidding....

two words...

Brad Miller

[cobbler]

Put LeBron around a bunch of scrubs and they're favorites to go to the Finals IN THE WEAK ASS EAST AND THEN GET ROLLED.

Put Kobe around lesser scrubs and they don't make the playoffs in a TOUGH WEST.
Hmmm.

[JoeTait75]

You have got to be kidding....

two words...

Brad Miller

If you grab another player's arm and hold it, that's a foul. Period. Always has been always will be. And it was right in front of the official.

Like I said, it's going to get tougher for the Cavaliers in terms of the officials against Boston. David Stern's worst nightmare is a Cleveland championship. He'll do his best to see to it that it doesn't happen.

[cobbler]

If you grab another player's arm and hold it, that's a foul. Period. Always has been always will be. And it was right in front of the official.

Like I said, it's going to get tougher for the Cavaliers in terms of the officials against Boston. David Stern's worst nightmare is a Cleveland championship. He'll do his best to see to it that it doesn't happen.

I never...ever complaing about refs or make them an excuse. But since i have no horse in that race... the 4 & 5th fouls on Miller as Shaq was backing him in were just absurd and you know it.

[Cry Havoc]

wtf. Are you saying that Shaq, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Big Z, and Varejao are a bunch of scrubs? :rolleyes

adn are you comparing these guys with a starting line up with Luke Walton, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown?!

Meh, I did exagerrate a bit there. My fault, and I acknowledge that. The Cavs team that went to the Finals in 07 were pretty scrubbish, though.

[bostonguy]

Like I said, it's going to get tougher for the Cavaliers in terms of the officials against Boston. David Stern's worst nightmare is a Cleveland championship. He'll do his best to see to it that it doesn't happen.

Stern has it out for the Cavs? The guy literally wants Lebron vs Kobe in June for $$$ purposes. You are being paranoid. Stern and the refs can't and won't stop the Cavs from the championship. You know that!

[boston.balla]

LMAO chocking on 36 9 8 on 60% shooting

Kobe would cut his dick to choke like that. Give me a fucking break. Lebron is going to hang em up as the GOAT, this entire rings shit is extremely overrated. Basketball is a

TEAM

game. A team wins a ring, not a player. Besides hakeem lebrons' the only guy who came close to ONE guy and not the team winning it.

Shaq is a 12 6 guy, antwan is crazy inconsistent. Mo williams barely is an above average point guard ( of ALL the pgs left in the playoffs he ONLY edges fisher in value, he is inferior to: deron, kidd, parker, westbrook, chauncy, a miller, nash, rondo, nelson, bibby, jennings, so nobody can't say shit about unsustained arguments. That's like half the pgs in the game in there. Zs 35 years old. Moon is an atheltic scrub. Delonte is an undersized sg which without even thinking is an average player at any position he plays. Varejao is their second best fucking player.

Let's compare with the lakers: pau is a legit 20 and 10 post presence both ofensively in defensively, baby drew can go for 20 anytime and can grab at least 6 a game, lamar can average 15 7 without anybody saying anything. Artest is allowed to handcheck and play like its 1998. Want tape? watch durant. The rest of the bench i agree it is beyond shit but .. 4 players of which 2 are legit footers of which in is in his prime.

So to all the sour pussy bitches in this thread you need to just take a deep breath, relax, and STFU. If you'd switch lebron with kobe you'd be looking at 4-4-4-4.

[baseline bum]

a choker? r u retarded?

a choker is someone who loses to the 8th seed, or someone who loses after being up 2 and 1/2 games in a series.

lebron is still better than MJ and Magic at his age so far.

You mean 2 7/8 games, right?

[ffadicted]

As long as LeBron is healthy and we don't have to play 5-on-8 like in the Chicago series we'll be all right in terms of winning the championship. No one in the West can deal with our team. Only Orlando can- and they won't.

Boston in 6 lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

David Stern and his officials did everything in their power to extend this series if not hand it to Chicago entirely. I'm sure they'll re-double their efforts in the next round against Boston. The Cavaliers will have to accept this reality and overcome it.


Wtf.....I've never heard you complain about refs before and you're usually the first to call people out for doing so....why the random ref rant?

[JoeTait75]

Wtf.....I've never heard you complain about refs before and you're usually the first to call people out for doing so....why the random ref rant?

Because I'm fucking tired of everyone on this forum bitching and moaning about how the officials favor Cleveland. It's not true, it's never been true and it never will be true. LeBron gets calls because he's a superstar- that's it. No one else on this team is favored for anything.

And if anyone seriously thinks David Stern wants Cleveland to win anything they're a goddamned moron. The last thing David Stern wants is for the Cavaliers to win the title. Because if that happens there's zero chance of LeBron leaving for a major market, and that's what he really wants.

So fuck it, I'll just take it to the other extreme. Can't be any less stupid than people thinking David Stern wants a Cleveland team to get favorable treatment.

[JoeTait75]

Boston in 6 lol

lol irrelevant team in a minor-league shithole city.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Because I'm fucking tired of everyone on this forum bitching and moaning about how the officials favor Cleveland. It's not true, it's never been true and it never will be true. LeBron gets calls because he's a superstar- that's it. No one else on this team is favored for anything.

And if anyone seriously thinks David Stern wants Cleveland to win anything they're a goddamned moron. The last thing David Stern wants is for the Cavaliers to win the title. Because if that happens there's zero chance of LeBron leaving for a major market, and that's what he really wants.


Chill man I'm not attacking you or anything just wondering why you're all the sudden so pissed at officials :lol

[ChrisRichards]

Because I'm fucking tired of everyone on this forum bitching and moaning about how the officials favor Cleveland. It's not true, it's never been true and it never will be true. LeBron gets calls because he's a superstar- that's it. No one else on this team is favored for anything.


Real talk Tait, real talk.

[oh crap]

lol city smack from a cleveland resident like it's some where anyone gives a real shit about

[JoeTait75]

Chill man I'm not attacking you or anything just wondering why you're all the sudden so pissed at officials :lol

I'm ranting in general, not in particular at you. I just seriously cannot fathom how anyone could believe David Stern wants the Cavaliers to win anything.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'm ranting in general, not in particular at you. I just seriously cannot fathom how anyone could believe David Stern wants the Cavaliers to win anything.


No I agree that Stern will do everything in his power to get Lebron in a Knicks jersey, however this sounds crazy, but IMO winning a title this year might make him more likely to leave if he has the mindset, "OK, I got Cleveland their ring, time for me to go to a big market and get my REAL career going!"

[bostonguy]

No I agree that Stern will do everything in his power to get Lebron in a Knicks jersey, however this sounds crazy, but IMO winning a title this year might make him more likely to leave if he has the mindset, "OK, I got Cleveland their ring, time for me to go to a big market and get my REAL career going!"

Doubt it. He will want to stay and defend the title. Cleveland is home to him. He is a God to that city. In New York, he'd be second to the Yanks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't see him leaving Cleveland if they don't win it all. I could be wrong, but when he's lived there his entire life, he's gotta have some emotional tie to the city, and I don't see him being that heartless a human being to just leave that city hanging given the current state it's in.

[JoeTait75]

In New York, he'd be second to the Yanks.

And if the Browns ever got really good LeBron would be second to them in Cleveland. This is a football town to the marrow.

I don't think that's a reason for LeBron not to leave. His ego is way too big for him ever to concede that he'd be a bridesmaid anywhere, to the Yankees or anyone else.

[The_Dude]

LeBron would have to average 10/3/3 to say he choked. Last year he put up some of the best numbers ever in NBA Playoff history, but unfortunately for him the rest of his team choked.

If the Cavs don't win (or reach) the Finals, that's a function of the supporting cast not doing their part, not LeBron "choking". One guy can only do so much.

[ginobili's bald spot]

I'm ranting in general, not in particular at you. I just seriously cannot fathom how anyone could believe David Stern wants the Cavaliers to win anything.

I've always considered you one of the more level headed posters on this site so I was surprised to see you say that the refs are against the Cavs. I'm not one to bitch about officiating and I agree that the constant whining about it on this forum is annoying but saying that David Stern DOESN'T want the Cavs in the finals is even more ridiculous. LeBron is the face of the NBA. His status and popularity supersede any market differences between Cleveland and another city. David Stern definitely wants LeBron in the finals because LeBron equals ratings. If the NBA didn't think so they wouldn't market him the way they do. If his popularity wasn't an effective tool then corporations wouldn't be giving him more endorsements than any other player. You don't think a LeBron vs Kobe finals is a marketing dream? Because Nike seems to think so and last time I checked they know a thing or two about that subject.

[RsxPiimp]

:lol @ refs against Cleveland. Wow.

[ffadicted]

lol irrelevant team in a minor-league shithole city.

... wut lol

[D2Procon]

Meh, I did exagerrate a bit there. My fault, and I acknowledge that. The Cavs team that went to the Finals in 07 were pretty scrubbish, though.

You remember the path the Cavs went to get to the finals that season? Gilbert Arenas blew his knee before the playoffs and that was an easy win and then Jason Kidd sprained his wrist in the 2nd round and that was another easy win..... Just saying...

[21_Blessings]

Lebron has the deepest, most talented team. So yes, Cleveland would become Dallas East and Lebron Dirk v2. Chokiest of the Chokers.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I wouldn't say he's a choker if he doesn't win.

However, it's not going to be as easy as people think for the Cavs to advance.

Their likely route, at least imho, is Boston, Magic, Lakers/Spurs. All have finals and championship experience and each has a fair chance at winning the NBA crown.

[duhoh]

wtf. Are you saying that Shaq, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Big Z, and Varejao are a bunch of scrubs? :rolleyes

adn are you comparing these guys with a starting line up with Luke Walton, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown?!

uhh no. see 2007. is it really any better than what kobe had?

[ezau]

How is it his fault that he can "only" take a team to the Finals that Kobe wouldn't make the West playoffs with? You're calling someone out for being human? :lol

Gasol is 3 times better than anyone who's ever been on LeBron's team, and they still lost 2 games to an 8 seed. :lmao

The Thunder is not your typical 8-seed team. Imagine if the Cavs have to face the them instead of the Bulls, what do you think would happen? The Cavs would be lucky to end the series in 6 games.

[DazedAndConfused]

My thoughts...

Lebron is a lot of things, but a choker he is not. In fact, he's one of the few players in this league who is able to take their game to another level when the game is on the line. He can get to the F/T line better than anyone else and has a knack for hitting those crucial game-winning shots.

If he doesn't win a championship this year it will be because the structure of his team is fundamentally flawed. I've always felt that the Cavs were more of a one man show than a 5 man team. A one man show, no matter how great that man is, can be stopped by good defensive teams and that is precisely what has happened to the Cavs the last few years in the playoffs (San Antonio, Cleveland, Orlando, etc.). I'm still reminded of last years ECF when Lebron would resort to holding the ball for 15-20 seconds before throwing up a shot. It was some of the worst basketball I've ever seen.

[Killakobe81]

ummm no. But media too quick to hype Lebron.
Dude has potential to be the GOAT ...but give him time he is STILL young ...

I agree with Dazed ...he is clutch and a winner but but he is more jedi knight than jedi master at this point in his career ...

[Jacob1983]

I would say if the Cavs don't even get to the Finals this year, then yes he is a choker. His path to the Finals was pretty easy last year, the only team that gave his team trouble was the Magic. And it could be the same story this year. Lebron and his team don't start playing competitive teams until the ECF and that's only if it's like a talented Magic team. You can bash Dirk's balls all the time, but he plays in a conference that has the Suns, Spurs, and Lakers. Competitive teams.

[Killakobe81]

I think the answer to this question should be judged by the league standards, not by a bunch of homers that don't know shit... you know who you are.:rolleyes When Kobe became the best player in the league back in 06, everyone of his haters developed this theory that the MVP award must, and will be given to the best player on the best team, therefore, while Kobe was breaking records, guys like Nash and Dirk where winning MVP awards, even though they were never on the best team, and were never the best players in the league. Due to never winning a title, Dirk and Nash have been tagged as chokers in big games, mainly Dirk because he choked away a 2-0 lead in the finals. I say he because he's the leader of the team, and although he was beasting in the series that got him tagged as a choker, he has taken the brunt of the failure.

James has been in a similar position for the past two seasons. He has won the MVP for two seasons straight, and his team owns the best record for the second straight year. When James has his team winning, he gets all the credit, he is given the credit for raising the level of his teammates, he is given the credit of making the big shots, and he is given the credit for leading his team. Last season when his team choked against a Jameerless Magic, an amateur big man in Dwight, all while having home-court. The world made excuses for him, even though he was the best player on the best team. I say he's already a choke artist and a joke. They blew 20 point leads twice in that series, and the games that were close, he failed to carry his team. This season will be the end of the love affair the media has with James. He will be touted for his stellar play, but ridiculed for not being a winner. After losing to Boston or the Magic, he'll sign a large contract and end his career in Cleveland... ringless. Most of you have no foresight so you'll think I'm off on my assessment, but James is already 25 with no titles. The team he has is old and will broken up after this year. James has to do his damage now, because in 5 years he'll be in his 13th season and on the downside of his career like most guys who put in that many years, although his game will suffer greatly because he's not as skilled as the greats before him. Enjoy the attention Cavs fans, because you'll never see one of these...:lobt:


Yeah, right. That will be a lifetime long love affair ...
Lebron is great but he almost always gets a free pass win or lose because he plays:
With such passion!!!
he has fun with his teammates dancning and prancing!!!
He is a hybrid of MJ Karl malone and Magic!!!!

BUT he is great just overhyped ...

[duhoh]

if the cavs fail it's because of one reason:

the offense is GARBAGE. i don't care much for lebron, but it really does stand as a testament to how good of a player he is to take the Cavs this far, when the majority of the offense during crunch time is just iso at the top of the key, while everyone else is in the corners.

the defense is pretty solid, but mike brown still doesn't know how to get the most out of this squad offensively.

[Giuseppe]

Luva, per usual, delivering the goods.

[John Terry]

I think the answer to this question should be judged by the league standards, not by a bunch of homers that don't know shit... you know who you are.:rolleyes When Kobe became the best player in the league back in 06, everyone of his haters developed this theory that the MVP award must, and will be given to the best player on the best team, therefore, while Kobe was breaking records, guys like Nash and Dirk where winning MVP awards, even though they were never on the best team, and were never the best players in the league. Due to never winning a title, Dirk and Nash have been tagged as chokers in big games, mainly Dirk because he choked away a 2-0 lead in the finals. I say he because he's the leader of the team, and although he was beasting in the series that got him tagged as a choker, he has taken the brunt of the failure.

James has been in a similar position for the past two seasons. He has won the MVP for two seasons straight, and his team owns the best record for the second straight year. When James has his team winning, he gets all the credit, he is given the credit for raising the level of his teammates, he is given the credit of making the big shots, and he is given the credit for leading his team. Last season when his team choked against a Jameerless Magic, an amateur big man in Dwight, all while having home-court. The world made excuses for him, even though he was the best player on the best team. I say he's already a choke artist and a joke. They blew 20 point leads twice in that series, and the games that were close, he failed to carry his team. This season will be the end of the love affair the media has with James. He will be touted for his stellar play, but ridiculed for not being a winner. After losing to Boston or the Magic, he'll sign a large contract and end his career in Cleveland... ringless. Most of you have no foresight so you'll think I'm off on my assessment, but James is already 25 with no titles. The team he has is old and will broken up after this year. James has to do his damage now, because in 5 years he'll be in his 13th season and on the downside of his career like most guys who put in that many years, although his game will suffer greatly because he's not as skilled as the greats before him. Enjoy the attention Cavs fans, because you'll never see one of these...:lobt:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/143756167_24af5580ef.jpg

[oh crap]

lebron will not win a ring this year, book it.

lol.. when i said this, i didn't think he wouldn't even make it to the ECF. :lmao:lmao:lmao

[Jacob1983]

He is on the verge of being a big choker. Everyone loves to bash Dirk about being a huge choker. What about Lebron? His team has had the best record in the NBA two seasons in a row and his team may not even get to the ECF this year. And let's not forget that Lebron doesn't have any problems with the refs either. This guy is suppose to be the best player and the MVP of the NBA?

[ChrisRichards]

Yeah if he loses in the second round this is going to reflect poorly on his legacy. I guess its safe to say that Lebron's name should never be brought up again in any Jordan comparisons.

[mogrovejo]

The Cavs second best player is AV and he's out of form, injured and being misused by his coach.

I can only think of a championship team with a 2nd best player of this caliber, Houston with Otis Thorpe.


I would say if the Cavs don't even get to the Finals this year, then yes he is a choker. His path to the Finals was pretty easy last year, the only team that gave his team trouble was the Magic. And it could be the same story this year. Lebron and his team don't start playing competitive teams until the ECF and that's only if it's like a talented Magic team. You can bash Dirk's balls all the time, but he plays in a conference that has the Suns, Spurs, and Lakers. Competitive teams.

The 3 best teams in the league are in the East.

[Ghazi]

pick a lane and stick with it, bitch

[Jacob1983]

Jordan never lost an NBA Finals.

[Killakobe81]

This.
Basically, its two consecutive best regular season records and 2 MVP awards for the Cavs and James. This season, the Cavs are rock solid from 1-8, I think they have the deepest team in the league. Their only "real" opponent in the East is Orlando and if they pass that test, I think they will run a train on any Western Conference teams, specially the Lakers.

and this

"Lakers will not repeat. Cavaliers are going to win their 1st NBA title this year and Kobe fanbois will all commit mass suicide once Lebron officially and rightfully takes what's his for many years to come"

"Lakers are not even going to advance in the Finals"

[Killakobe81]

ChrisRichards is ALMOST as good as prognosticating as Charles Barkley!

[redzero]

Jordan never lost an NBA Finals.

Did Jordan ever go to the Finals with Larry Hughes as his second best player?

[Killakobe81]

ummm no. But media too quick to hype Lebron.
Dude has potential to be the GOAT ...but give him time he is STILL young ...

I agree with Dazed ...he is clutch and a winner but but he is more jedi knight than jedi master at this point in his career ...

This.

[SpursDynasty]

LeBron wouldn't be a choker. The Cavs weren't expected to win this series, the Celtics were the favorites coming into the series. Cleveland had two consecutive best regular season records and 2 consecutive MVP's for LeBron, but all that means is they made their shots and everyone else didn't. Doesn't make them good.

[jag]

As long as LeBron is healthy and we don't have to play 5-on-8 like in the Chicago series we'll be all right in terms of winning the championship. No one in the West can deal with our team. Only Orlando can- and they won't.

JoeTait you silly bitch

[ChrisRichards]

ChrisRichards is ALMOST as good as prognosticating as Charles Barkley!
Vegas oddsmakers loves Bakley's predictions.

[Killakobe81]

Vegas oddsmakers loves Bakley's predictions.

?
At half-time I wondered did he bet big on the Cavs?
he seemed very mad the Cavs lost ...
why does he care so much?
He is an analyst ...supposedly.

thought he stopped gambling ...

[KidCongo]

The media is going to hop right off LeBron's dick. I think the MVP goes to D Wade next season after he gets Bosh too join him in Miami.

[ChrisRichards]

Miami should rather go after Dirk, that would be a sick combo!
Bosh. Joe Johnson. Thats going to be the plan I think.

[ChrisRichards]

?

thought he stopped gambling ...
Thought so too, but he said that live on TNT yesterday. Barkley is such a tool. :lol

[ChrisRichards]

Dirk is better than both of them combined. Plus he is a warrior too.

Dirk, Wade and Beasley would be one scary trio.
Definitely. Dont know if Dirk would go to Miami though.

[KidCongo]

LeBron is either hurt or tanking. I got a bad feeling he is tanking.

[KidCongo]

I can't understand why he would tank now but?

[mogrovejo]

I can't understand why he would tank now but?

Maybe he isn't. Maybe you just failed to assess how talented both teams are.

[Findog]

So is LeBron cool with Shaq and Kareem's legacy? Does this open the door to him leaving?

[jag]

Maybe he isn't. Maybe you just failed to assess how talented both teams are.

The celts are so talented that lebron decided not to be aggressive?

[mogrovejo]

The celts are so talented that lebron decided not to be aggressive?

He had a bad game, his jumpers weren't falling. Still went to the line plenty. Celtics did a good job defending him, denying the ball and the passing lanes. He got exhausted defending Rondo. If the other guys don't make the Cs pay, things get rough for LBJ. Yet, he still got 15/7/6 - a horrible game for his standards, but how many guys can actually average that in the playoffs? He was miles better than Kobe vs the same Celtics 2 seasons ago.

[jag]

There were 3 consecutive possessions in the 3rd quarter where Lebron stood at the three point line and didn't touch the ball. For most of the game he played as if he were uninterested.

[jacobdrj]

No, Mavs take the cake. Whether or not the 06 Finals were rigged, the fact is, that team lost their edge after that. Avery blew it in 07, killing any confidence with weird last minute rotation changes against an 8 seed, all because he thought Big Bad Nelly was going to smoke them, before he even gave his team a chance... And while Carlisle did breath some life into the team, they still seemed to be shell-shocked this year. The team needs either another star or to blow up the Dirk core.

[Jacob1983]

Jordan made his teammates better. I can't say the same about Lebron. Kobe isn't Jordan but Kobe has somewhat made his teammates better.

[21_Blessings]

LeBron is either hurt or tanking. I got a bad feeling he is tanking.

Or he's not nearly as good as you think he is. All Lebron needed tonight in order to win was a jumpshot and post-game. Shame he has neither :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

dunno about choking, but he should clearly remove that tag name the king, cause he hasnt won shit

[TheMACHINE]

Lebron making his teammates better is the biggest myth in the NBA right now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Or he's not nearly as good as you think he is. All Lebron needed tonight in order to win was a jumpshot and post-game. Shame he has neither :lol


I think you're giving the guy too much credit by just saying he isn't good enough. Tonight had just as much to do with a passive attitude as it did with a lack of skill. Tim Legler said it best, everyone in the arena was waiting for the moment when Lebron would get his team back in the game, and it never came. It looked like he didn't give a shit.

[TheMACHINE]

I think you're giving the guy too much credit by just saying he isn't good enough. Tonight had just as much to do with a passive attitude as it did with a lack of skill. Tim Legler said it best, everyone in the arena was waiting for the moment when Lebron would get his team back in the game, and it never came. It looked like he didn't give a shit.

like game 7 2006 Kobe?

[ChrisRichards]

It looked like he didn't give a shit.


Could be. This is coming from Windhorst himself. Clevelands most reliable beat writer.




What seems like a lack of focus and positive body language from LeBron James during the playoffs has his Cavalier teammates and coaches perplexed.

"It has further become problematic that James has been disengaged during the games," writes Brian Windhorst of The Plain Dealer. "Not only has he fallen into the trap of 'letting the game come to him,' but he's been increasingly distant. In huddles he's looking at the ceiling or into the distance. It is not the James anyone on the team knows and his teammates and coaches have seen it. More problematic, they can't explain it and that is making the entire locker room uneasy."

During two skirmishes with the Celtics in Game 5, the normally fiery James stayed off to the side and did not get involved.
Windhorst also notes the team's building frustration with Mike Brown's inconsistent rotations as the coach searches for ways to get his team going.
Finally, Windhorst had an exclusive interview with Cavs' owner Dan Gilbert after the team's Game 5 blowout loss at home.
"The last two home playoff losses and the manner in which we lost these games does not come close to being anywhere near the high expectations all of us have of our organization. Our fans and supporters deserve more," said Gilbert.
"We have to ask ourselves two questions," he said. "Will we remember who we are and choose to impose our will on our opponent for the remainder of this series and beyond? And how much do we want it? I believe in our players, our coaching staff and our entire franchise. This series is not over.".

[Giuseppe]

Kobe isn't Jordan but Kobe has somewhat made his teammates better.

No. Quality teammates make Kobe better, i.e. Gasol, Fish.

Who's Kobe ever transformed?

[sonic21]

He honestly looked/sounded like he didn't care... On the court and during the press conference.

[mogrovejo]

Or he's not nearly as good as you think he is. All Lebron needed tonight in order to win was a jumpshot and post-game. Shame he has neither :lol

And now, let's face reality:

Jump shots FG%:

Inside 10 feet
Player A - 53.5%
Player B - 46.2%

101-15 feet -
Player A - 32.2%
Player B - 49%

16-23 feet-
Player A - 40%
Player B -41%

3pt shot-
Player A - 33.3%
Player B - 32%

Post up -
Player A - 1.149 points per play
Player B - 0.98 points per play

----

The LeBron vs. Kobe debate was over 2 years ago, kids. It's not even a debate any more. A bad game doesnt' change that.

[Jacob1983]

Gasol has more championships as a Laker than he had playoff wins when he played for the Grizzlies. Kobe has made Gasol a better player. You could say that he's made Odom a better player too. Lebron hasn't done that to anyone on the Cavs. Jordan made several teammates of his better.

[HarlemHeat37]

"Making your teammates better" is such a horrible argument..how do you prove that somebody made their teammates better?..

So you're saying Gasol has had success as a Laker, because Kobe made him better?..you mean it WASN'T because his best teammates were Mike Miller and James Posey?!..

[Allanon]

Lebron making his teammates better is the biggest myth in the NBA right now.

Agreed.

LeBron taking all the big moments and plays leading up to those moments hurts the team in the long run.

I'm cool with LeBron shooting the majority of the shots in crunchtime. That's his job.

But let a teammate take the ball up the court. Let a teammate initiate the play. Let a teammate have an assist. Have a few passes before you get the ball and go 1 on 5.

LeBron does so much to increase his PER and clutch stats that his teammates are left watching in crunch time.

Instead, it's usually Lebron getting the ball in the back court and dribbling at the 3 for 10 seconds before he goes 1 on 5.

And this translates into the postseason where every game is crunch time and his teammates are used to watching...like they did all season.

[KidCongo]

Some big shit is going down in the locker room.

LeBron and Shaq are done.

LeBron and Mike Brown are done.

[ChrisRichards]

Some big shit is going down in the locker room.

LeBron and Shaq are done.

LeBron and Mike Brown are done.
Details pls

[Allanon]

Some big shit is going down in the locker room.

LeBron and Shaq are done.

LeBron and Mike Brown are done.

Whut? Where? Links?

[KidCongo]

Honestly guys I don't have a direct link but that's the vibe I'm getting along with many other fans when you see what Windhorst writes and what some insiders have to say on a Cavs board.

It's just speculation right now but it's going to be in an interesting few days after the Celtic's knock the Cavs out.

[KidCongo]

http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

More LeBron: "Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. But you can't question the effort we had."

More LeBron: "We tried to do the things we wanted to do with the gameplan that was given to us but it just didnt' work."

He has no faith in MB anymore.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_cavaliers_vs_boston_4.html

Good article about it also.

[Allanon]

http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

More LeBron: "Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. But you can't question the effort we had."

More LeBron: "We tried to do the things we wanted to do with the gameplan that was given to us but it just didnt' work."

He has no faith in MB anymore.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_cavaliers_vs_boston_4.html

Good article about it also.

Between that and his questioning MB about not bringing back Shaq into the game, it's fair to reason that he feels the gameplan has let down the players, not the other way around.

[ChrisRichards]

Holy shizzle if thats the case. You know a few days ago I was pissed at Cleveland fans for booing Lebron, but I feel their sentiments now.


I feel bad for the franchise and for Dan Gilbert. I know the Cavs is not really where he makes his money but rather than his toy, still, I feel DG gave his best to bring a title to the loyal fans of Lebron and the Cavaliers.

[ffadicted]

As long as LeBron is healthy and we don't have to play 5-on-8 like in the Chicago series we'll be all right in terms of winning the championship. No one in the West can deal with our team. Only Orlando can- and they won't.
Boston in 6 lol

... just sayin' guys... just sayin'

:greedy:greedy:greedy:greedy:greedy:greedy

[RsxPiimp]

Not a big fan of Lebron, but I dont think the blame should be entirely on him. None of his teammates showed up in the second half. Despite of his poor shooting and careless handling and decision making, he still managed to put up a good game for himself.

[Das Texan]

Not a big fan of Lebron, but I dont think the blame should be entirely on him. None of his teammates showed up in the second half. Despite of his poor shooting and careless handling and decision making, he still managed to put up a good game for himself.


Exactly!


Lebron had good stats. But he really never got his team involved in the game in a positive manner.

[picc84]

Cant wait to hear Shaq's comments. Team #400 he burns bridges with.

[Isitjustme?]

David Stern and his officials did everything in their power to extend this series if not hand it to Chicago entirely. I'm sure they'll re-double their efforts in the next round against Boston. The Cavaliers will have to accept this reality and overcome it.

David Stern has a conspiracy against Lebron :wow

Hand Miami the ship now...