Manu, Parker, TD... don't forget your passports and visas

[nkdlunch]

Seriously, police could legally detain Manu, Parker and Duncan if they forget to bring their immigration papers.

Robert Sarver is probably already making calls to PHO PD.

[Phenomanul]

Seriously, police could legally detain Manu, Parker and Duncan if they forget to bring their immigration papers.

Robert Sarver is probably already making calls to PHX PD.

I wouldn't put that type of stunt past him....

BTW add Mahinmi and Mason to that list...

(Mason's not even from this planet... and his countrymen make a living killing acid filled aliens for sport).

[foodie2]

Sadly, true.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Given the Suns' luck against the Spurs it will backfire and result in the deportation of Dragic, Barbosa, and Nash. They might even ship Robin Lopez out of there too. With a last name like that, you never know.

[jimo2305]

:lol at first i was like 'huh?'

[lefty]

Given the Suns' luck against the Spurs it will backfire and result in the deportation of Dragic, Barbosa, and Nash. They might even ship Robin Lopez out of there too. With a last name like that, you never know.
:lmao

[foodie2]

MLB Players Association has come out against the Arizona law. Some sports bloggers are calling for boycott of the Arizona Diamondbacks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/mlb-players-blast-arizona_n_559067.html

[nkdlunch]

the NBA should boycott Arizona too and send Spurs straight to WCF

[in2deep]

I heard Shakira is gonna be in Phoenix this weekend to do something about this new law :)

[EmptyMan]

not this shit again...

[Spurologist]

I didn't know Spurstalk was a Mexican looking immigrant in Arizona

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I heard Shakira is gonna be in Phoenix this weekend to do something about this new law :)


is shakira an american citizen?

I really hope she is, 'cause otherwise she should really shut the fuck up and mind her business. Don't get me wrong, I dislike this law as much as anyone and I understand why people want it eliminated, but America isn't her country, she's got no business meddling.

[Sense]

is shakira an american citizen?

I really hope she is, 'cause otherwise she should really shut the fuck up and mind her business. Don't get me wrong, I dislike this law as much as anyone and I understand why people want it eliminated, but America isn't her country, she's got no business meddling.

I believe she can say whatever she pleases... citizen or not.

[nkdlunch]

is shakira an american citizen?

I really hope she is, 'cause otherwise she should really shut the fuck up and mind her business. Don't get me wrong, I dislike this law as much as anyone and I understand why people want it eliminated, but America isn't her country, she's got no business meddling.

this is not argentina.
America is not my country but I live here, own property here, pay taxes here, obey the laws here and eat pussy here. I damn well have a right to say whatever I want about America's laws. And opose them if I please.

bTW, there is a political forum. This thread is about the Spurs players not forgeting their documents.

[Kori Ellis]

Why would Duncan have immigration papers? :lol

[TampaDude]

Why would Duncan have immigration papers? :lol

Yeah, really...WTF??? :lol

[Scumbag]

A drivers licence or state issued ID works. You should read the bill before you say you dislike it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

[WalterBenitez]

this is not argentina.
America is not my country but I live here, own property here, pay taxes here, obey the laws here and eat pussy here. I damn well have a right to say whatever I want about America's laws. And opose them if I please.

bTW, there is a political forum. This thread is about the Spurs players not forgeting their documents.

That's why I'd love to apply for a green card :wow

[disciple]

READ THE LAW !!

You have to be stopped for something else first! Since none of the Spurs will be driving the only reason for them to be questioned would be if they got drunk in public or something.

[spursfan09]

Given the Suns' luck against the Spurs it will backfire and result in the deportation of Dragic, Barbosa, and Nash. They might even ship Robin Lopez out of there too. With a last name like that, you never know.

Ya right, then Sun fans would have another excuse and cry "bu bu bu but our players got deported!!!"

[jimo2305]

Why would Duncan have immigration papers? :lol

because he's out of this world..

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9627/badumtish.jpg

[Southwest Texas Fan]

READ THE LAW !!

You have to be stopped for something else first! Since none of the Spurs will be driving the only reason for them to be questioned would be if they got drunk in public or something.

There are many many ways to establish probable cause.

[GSH]

Really ought to be in a political forum... but if Tony Parker gets pulled over after a high speed chase, with no license, and people in his trunk? I seriously hope they ask some kind of freaking questions.

[Agloco]

Seriously, police could legally detain Manu, Parker and Duncan if they forget to bring their immigration papers.

Robert Sarver is probably already making calls to PHO PD.

This qualifies as the most ignorant post........... well, ever. :rolleyes

[Russ]

Actually, the NBA is quite aware of this Arizona law.

David Stern was on a local radio show in LA yesterday and he was pissed. Saying the NBA is looking in to this situation with Az's law but the law doesn't go in to effect until August, after the NBA playoffs are done. Stern even referred to the NBA as a "progressive" organization. :) (Take that, Glenn Beck.)

He also sung the praises of the Spurs, Tim Duncan and Manu.:flag:

[santymrc]

Stupidity has no borders.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

This is so overblown it's ridiculous. This law is being used, cynically, by those forces who want illegals to be able to stay here and be citizens (or quasi-citizens) with no repercussions. It's simply a political power play, whipping people up into a frenzy.

The Arizona legislature has clarified that this law is only intended to allow police to check residency status of people they detain or arrest. And appearance/race is not a reason for stopping people.

"Lawmakers on Thursday night changed the language to require scrutiny only of people who police stop, detain or arrest. They also changed a section of the bill that barred officers from "solely" using race as grounds for suspecting someone is in the country illegally; opponents had argued that that would allow race to be a factor. The legislators removed the word "solely" to bar race from being used by officers enforcing the law."

This is not Nazi Germany where you have to carry papers everywhere you go. However, if you are stopped or arrested in Arizona, you may get your residency status checked. Why is that such a problem? The police can check every other freakin' thing about you, and if you have any outstanding illegalities on your record, they will process them on you. Why not this one?

Because the thrust of the protest against this is that being in this country is NOT illegal and should NOT be used as a basis for denying people services or deporting them. Why do you think they are trying to push the term "undocumented"? Because it implies you're just missing some silly documents, and you should have all the rights and privileges of being here in the USA. They are also trying to make it a "human rights" issue.

Don't be fooled. You are being spun by all these news stories and protests to believe that illegals should be given everything we have and be allowed to stay here with all rights and privileges.

[ShoogarBear]

Right, nothing to be concerned about.

Being asked for your papers has been one of the marks of a great nation throughout history.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Right, nothing to be concerned about.

Being asked for your papers has been one of the marks of a great nation throughout history.

Try actually reading my post. People are NOT going to be "asked for their papers". It will be part of what the police check for when you are stopped or arrested. Like they check for everything else ("wants and warrants" on both you and your car).

Like I said, the real question no one is asking is: If you are in this country illegally, should that be treated like every other violation of the law? Or should we treat it specially, and not check up on people unless.... what? Never? Only if they are convicted of a felony? What?

[Spursmania]

This is not a real basketball thread. Belongs in the political forum and yes, I am policing this crap because it's stupid to bring it here, and OP should have taken this shit elsewhere.:wakeup

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Actually, the NBA is quite aware of this Arizona law.

David Stern was on a local radio show in LA yesterday and he was pissed. Saying the NBA is looking in to this situation with Az's law but the law doesn't go in to effect until August, after the NBA playoffs are done. Stern even referred to the NBA as a "progressive" organization. :) (Take that, Glenn Beck.)

He also sung the praises of the Spurs, Tim Duncan and Manu.:flag:

I am really tired of "progressive" being equated to "handcuffing the police".

I'm reminded of the Pulp Fiction quote on the Amsterdam police:

JULES: Well, hash is legal there, right?

VINCENT: Yeah, it's legal, but is ain't a hundred percent legal. I mean you can't walk into a restaurant, roll a joint, and start puffin' away. You're only supposed to smoke in your home or certain designated places.

JULES: Those are hash bars?

VINCENT: Yeah, it breaks down like this: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it and, if you're the proprietor of a hash bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, which doesn't really matter 'cause -- get a load of this -- if the cops stop you, it's illegal for them to search you. Searching you is a right that the cops in Amsterdam don't have.

[jag]

I didn't know Spurstalk was a Mexican looking immigrant in Arizona

:lmao

[Agloco]

Try actually reading my post. People are NOT going to be "asked for their papers". It will be part of what the police check for when you are stopped or arrested. Like they check for everything else ("wants and warrants" on both you and your car).

Like I said, the real question no one is asking is: If you are in this country illegally, should that be treated like every other violation of the law? Or should we treat it specially, and not check up on people unless.... what? Never? Only if they are convicted of a felony? What?

Flagrant 1...... :tu

Illegal folks. Learn the word. Surely none of the NBA's finest are here ILLEGALLY, right? So what's Stern beefing about anyway? And what was the OP's point?


This is not a real basketball thread. Belongs in the political forum and yes, I am policing this crap because it's stupid to bring it here, and OP should have taken this shit elsewhere.:wakeup

Flagrant 2....... :tu Get this shit outta here.

[jag]

"They're treating those illegals so terribly! Like they're criminals or something.."

[Tito_Trinidad]

Duncan is an american citizen. US VI born residents get the US passport automatically by default, like Puertoricans. They live in US territories.

[Budkin]

It's the "dirty mexicans" of San Antonio vs. the racial profilers of Arizona!

[Nbadan]

If it weren't for illegals, the NBA wouldn't have anyone to charge you $6.00 for a 12 ounce beer...

[ploto]

A joke post turns into a big fight about immigration!? Too many days between games...

[Kori Ellis]

I actually thought the joke was funny - I just didn't get why he included TD. :lmao

[vicphoenix13]

This law is going to be scrapped soon enough. The righties know this looks bad on them. They need the latino vote to get elected and that's not happening if this law stays.

[Obstructed_View]

Are the Spurs planning on having run-ins with the police?

[Obstructed_View]

"They're treating those illegals so terribly! Like they're criminals or something.."

:lol People act like just because someone's illegal it means they're breaking the law or something.

[E-RockWill]

Insert any line from "Born in East LA" here...........

[angelbelow]

Lol funny, but I doubt they will be that strict with obviously citizens.

[elbamba]

I am against the law but it is obvious that most of you have not read the bill. It essentially forces Arizona police to obey federal laws. They have to have probable cause to stop someone, not just because they see someone with dark skin.

[itzsoweezee]

I am against the law but it is obvious that most of you have not read the bill. It essentially forces Arizona police to obey federal laws. They have to have probable cause to stop someone, not just because they see someone with dark skin.

probable cause, probable cause, you don't have to break no laws if they say probable cause

[itzsoweezee]

what a shithole of a state. it'll make beating the sons that much sweeter.

[Russ]

I am against the law but it is obvious that most of you have not read the bill. It essentially forces Arizona police to obey federal laws.

Obeying federal law is one thing, enforcing it (as local law enforcement) is another.


It's like the old Andy Griffith episode where Barney gives a guy a ticket and the guy gets mad and starts yelling "citizen's arrest" after Barney makes a U-turn.

[nkdlunch]

A drivers licence or state issued ID works. You should read the bill before you say you dislike it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

again, there is a political forum, but you are incorrect sir. You need an ARIZONA license. A Texas license won't do if you look foreign.

and to the other idiot who said they only stop ppl who commit crimes. wrong too, they can ask for papers even if you don't commit a crime. but we digress....

[IronheadSpur]

Federal law has required immigrants and visitors to the U.S. to carry their papers on them since the 1940's when the law was passed by Democrats and signed by FDR.

The law is pretty much the same in almost every country in the world.

[LakerHater]

Suns have Barbosa, Nash & Dragić!

[JonNOKC]

Federal law has required immigrants and visitors to the U.S. to carry their papers on them since the 1940's when the law was passed by Democrats and signed by FDR.

The law is pretty much the same in almost every country in the world.

THIS....I have traveled to Italy, Germany, and Austrailia and you are instructed to have passport on person while there - Mexico has law that reads the exact same thing - we issue proper documents to LEGAL immigrants (residents,students, workers or traveling) for a reason - it allows officials to know they have been through legal proccess to be in the US and for what purpose

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

MLB Players Association has come out against the Arizona law. Some sports bloggers are calling for boycott of the Arizona Diamondbacks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/mlb-players-blast-arizona_n_559067.html

So much ignorance in the boycott calls, but not surprising. Stupidity abounds on the east coast.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

A drivers licence or state issued ID works. You should read the bill before you say you dislike it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

No logic allowed, only feigned outrage buoyed by complete ignorance of the law in question.

[Kori Ellis]

A drivers licence or state issued ID works. You should read the bill before you say you dislike it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

Where does the bill say a license or ID works?

I thought the bill said:


A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

That sounds like someone would need to produce something like a birth certificate or immigration card.

[easjer]

I'd heard the same thing regarding the license/state ID/green card (via McLaughlin group last night) - but I don't know that's written into the law. I'm guessing it's an assumption made on the basis that you can't get a valid driver's license or state ID card if you can't produce evidence of your citizenship or legally allowable presence in the US.

The joke was funny.

The bill has been changed in ways which allay my concerns about racial profiling. I can't argue with a border state attempting to enforce federal laws. The same thing - checking immigration/citizenship status was considered here in Houston (checked if someone was arrested or charged with a crime) with nowhere near the firestorm, except from groups that support amnesty for illegal immigrants.

[Kori Ellis]

You can easily get a driver's license in Los Angeles without a green card/work permit. You just buy a social security card off Van Nuys Blvd, take it to the DMV and Voila! - you can get a license.

Anyway, I don't think the law specifies driver's license is OK. (unless I missed something).

It just says:


For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

[LakerHater]

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=immigration.jpg&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

[easjer]

No, you are correct, Kori. I just think that's where the statement is coming from, you know?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Robert Sarver is probably already making calls to PHO PD.


Robert Sarver contributed money to a democratic congressional candidate in 2008 that I know personally, he's a pretty liberal guy. Just cheap as shit.

[Pero]

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=immigration.jpg&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

Spain?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And I'll willingly admit that it's embarrassing to live in the state these jokes are being made about. Don't get me wrong, I've made jokes and would make tons more if I lived somewhere else. It's just sickening to be associated with such a blatantly racist law that takes away constitutional rights.

[Nathan Explosion]

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=immigration.jpg&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

It is the white man who illegally entered Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. People seem to forget that when they tell Mexicans to go home.

[Bob Lanier]

Right, nothing to be concerned about.

Being asked for your papers has been one of the marks of a great nation throughout history.
Most of them, yes.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

It is the white man who illegally entered Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. People seem to forget that when they tell Mexicans to go home.

Oh so that means what? That we should give it back?

The right answer is to do what GW Bush tried to do in his first term, and got shot down by both sides (left and right). That is to give illegal aliens who were already here the ability to go through a process and stay here, and to institute a guest worker program for the future. This would have instantly transformed all "illegals" into "legals" and put them into the system, on a path to become citizens if they wished to be, or to decide they didn't want to go through the program and return to their home countries.

The right didn't like it because it "rewards" illegals. The left didn't like it because it was "too harsh" on illegals. So it was probably exactly the right thing to do. Unfortunately there's little room for reasonable, middle-of-the-road programs in today's polarized environment.

[GSH]

You can easily get a driver's license in Los Angeles without a green card/work permit. You just buy a social security card off Van Nuys Blvd, take it to the DMV and Voila! - you can get a license.

Anyway, I don't think the law specifies driver's license is OK. (unless I missed something).

It just says:
For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

You are right, the law doesn't specify that a driver's license will work. Those comments are based on other law that says that the absence of a driver's license while operating a motor vehicle is sufficient probable cause to investigate further. Sometimes people just leave their wallet at home. But if you get pulled over, and you aren't carrying it, you should expect to come under suspicion.

A lot of these comments are pretty naive and uninformed. If you're operating a vehicle and you don't have your license with you, you are subject to arrest. If you can later show that you do, in fact, possess a valid license, the ticket gets dropped. BUT... you probably don't know that right now, in Texas, if you are fishing you must carry your fishing license AND your driver's license or personal ID issued by the DPS. Non-residents have to carry an authorized ID from their state or country of residence. Anyone who doesn't present an ID is subject to arrest, and even if you later prove that you own one you still pay the fine(s).

Not only that, but if a game warden believes that a person has been engaged in hunting or fishing, he can demand documents such as ID, hunting/fishing license, tags, etc. He can also inspect your car, boat, ice chest, whatever. He doesn't even have to actually see the person hunting or fishing, just have reasonable suspicion. And if he happens to find any other illegal substances in the process, it's all part of a legal search and seizure.

If we were looking for a reason to harass people because of their skin color, the fish and game laws would be used that way all the time. Line up all the police and sheriffs, and point to the ones that you believe are eager to arrest people based on skin color. Regardless of what you read, there just aren't that many of them out there.

It should be pretty obvious that a driver who can't produce a license should be suspected of driving illegally. It's also common for people who already have a criminal record to claim not to have a license with them, because they don't want to be identified. I don't know what good they think it will do in the long run, but they do it all the time. You should talk to some law enforcement officers before rushing to judgement on some of this. Find out how often people claim not to have their license, and when they get arrested it turns out it is right there in their wallet.

If you get pulled over for cause, the officer has the right to ask for your license. If you try to evade arrest, don't have ID, smell like pot, etc. he has reasonable suspicion to check for other possible illegal activity. If you have 5 more frightened-acting people in the car, or someone in the trunk (happens all the time in AZ), that qualifies as reasonable suspicion. Are you really suggesting that when a driver has people in the trunk we shouldn't be able to at least INQUIRE about legal immigration status? If you agree that it's reasonable under those circumstances, then the only question is when and where to draw the line.

Here are a couple of other things to consider. We have averaged over 2,000 people entering the country illegally, every day, 365 days per year, for the last 15 years! Mexico now loses more people per year across the U.S. border than they lose to their death rate. Mexico's second largest source of revenue, after petroleum, is the money being sent back by from the U.S. (probably third if you count drug revenues). The people are pawns in a political/economic game that benefits a relatively small group of people. The system is broken, and they have an interest in keeping it that way.

[vander]

Oh so that means what? That we should give it back?

The right answer is to do what GW Bush tried to do in his first term, and got shot down by both sides (left and right). That is to give illegal aliens who were already here the ability to go through a process and stay here, and to institute a guest worker program for the future. This would have instantly transformed all "illegals" into "legals" and put them into the system, on a path to become citizens if they wished to be, or to decide they didn't want to go through the program and return to their home countries.

The right didn't like it because it "rewards" illegals. The left didn't like it because it was "too harsh" on illegals. So it was probably exactly the right thing to do. Unfortunately there's little room for reasonable, middle-of-the-road programs in today's polarized environment.

the few illegals that I know, wouldn't even take advantage of that, I tried to get them to take action towards citizenship many times, but they don't give a rat's ass about being "illegals". they still get their paycheck, they have their systems in place to get here illegally whenever they want to, and when they're ready to settle down with a family, they're out of here anyways, they admit that Mexico is pretty fucked up right now, And America is the better place to live, but they don't care, Mexico is home, America is a paycheck.

but that's just the couple I know...

[GSH]

It is the white man who illegally entered Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. People seem to forget that when they tell Mexicans to go home.


I'm pretty well sick of that shit, too. Two of my four grandparents lived on reservations. My grandfather was told that he couldn't go to school, because he was an Indian (Native Americans hadn't been invented yet). With the logic of a child, he decided it was because he didn't have shoes. He found some black crap and painted his feet with it, and damned near died from what they called "blood poisoning". I got news for you - Spanish isn't the native tongue in this country, either. I spent a hell of a lot of time in Mexico when I was young and bulletproof. I also lived in Israel for a year, and saw that bullshit up close. If you go looking for first causes, you're on the road to nowhere.

Corruption on both sides of the border is the enemy. Not (most of) the people who come looking for work. And not the citizens of Arizona who have to deal with the broken system every day. I don't know of a single other country on the planet that willingly chooses not to enforce sovereignty over their own borders. No amount of discussion or rationalization can make that practice logical.

Oh, and my grandfather who painted his feet? One of his daughters died from snakebite while picking beans - she was six. He became a blacksmith and farrier, and proudly served this country in the U.S. Cavalry. He got TB while doing it, which he died from. But he had a saying that is part of our family: "Anyone who goes looking for an excuse is going to find one. Don't even bother telling me yours."

Be careful about spouting the reductionist history they teach you in public school.

[LakerHater]

So does that mean no more Noche Latina nights in Phoenix?

[tp2021]

Oh, and my grandfather who painted his feet? One of his daughters died from snakebite while picking beans - she was six. He became a blacksmith and farrier, and proudly served this country in the U.S. Cavalry. He got TB while doing it, which he died from. But he had a saying that is part of our family: "Anyone who goes looking for an excuse is going to find one. Don't even bother telling me yours."

Love the quote

[superjames1992]

Seriously, police could legally detain Manu, Parker and Duncan if they forget to bring their immigration papers.

Robert Sarver is probably already making calls to PHO PD.

You really don't know anything about the bill, do you?

And Timmy is an American citizen and has been since the day he was born.

[superjames1992]

Actually, the NBA is quite aware of this Arizona law.

David Stern was on a local radio show in LA yesterday and he was pissed. Saying the NBA is looking in to this situation with Az's law but the law doesn't go in to effect until August, after the NBA playoffs are done. Stern even referred to the NBA as a "progressive" organization. :) (Take that, Glenn Beck.)

He also sung the praises of the Spurs, Tim Duncan and Manu.:flag:

I really hate when supposedly non-political organizations like this starting getting political. That takes the fun out of the game. I don't want the NBA to tell me what to think politically.

[Big P]

If police & immigration officials do not ask questions or investigate possible illegal aliens, how are they going to know whether a person is here legally or illegally? And if they do, that is racist?(Seems like the new buzzword is racist..you don't like the president..your a racist, you are ok with the Tea Party..you are a racist etc) We go through DUI & insurance checkpoints & they make you produce multiple forms if id...why not get mad about those "invasion" of our rights? Illegal immigration has become an epidemic & some states are starting to do what the bog govt. should have done a long time ago.

[ClingingMars]

This is not a real basketball thread. Belongs in the political forum and yes, I am policing this crap because it's stupid to bring it here, and OP should have taken this shit elsewhere.:wakeup

/thread

[ClingingMars]

:lol People act like just because someone's illegal it means they're breaking the law or something.

funny, I thought that was redundant.

[SoCalSpursFan]

i didn't read the thread, so maybe this was already posted...but I live in Phoenix, and the law doesn't go into effect for 90 days.

[temujin]

I'm pretty well sick of that shit, too. Two of my four grandparents lived on reservations. My grandfather was told that he couldn't go to school, because he was an Indian (Native Americans hadn't been invented yet). With the logic of a child, he decided it was because he didn't have shoes. He found some black crap and painted his feet with it, and damned near died from what they called "blood poisoning". I got news for you - Spanish isn't the native tongue in this country, either. I spent a hell of a lot of time in Mexico when I was young and bulletproof. I also lived in Israel for a year, and saw that bullshit up close. If you go looking for first causes, you're on the road to nowhere.

Corruption on both sides of the border is the enemy. Not (most of) the people who come looking for work. And not the citizens of Arizona who have to deal with the broken system every day. I don't know of a single other country on the planet that willingly chooses not to enforce sovereignty over their own borders. No amount of discussion or rationalization can make that practice logical.

Oh, and my grandfather who painted his feet? One of his daughters died from snakebite while picking beans - she was six. He became a blacksmith and farrier, and proudly served this country in the U.S. Cavalry. He got TB while doing it, which he died from. But he had a saying that is part of our family: "Anyone who goes looking for an excuse is going to find one. Don't even bother telling me yours."

Be careful about spouting the reductionist history they teach you in public school.


1) As for the country, "mine", of course.
Don Winslow, El poder del perro.
That looks awfully familiar to me.

2) As for the grandfather, he should be proud of your posts.

[fyatuk]

That sounds like someone would need to produce something like a birth certificate or immigration card.

Actually, that particular section deals with asking Immigration and Naturalization Service to verify status.

Now, here's the fun part....


Sec. 1373. Communication between government agencies and the
Immigration and Naturalization Service



(a) In general Notwithstanding any other provision of Federal, State, or local law, a Federal, State, or local government entity or official may not prohibit, or in any way restrict, any government entity or official from sending to, or receiving from, the Immigration and Naturalization Service information regarding the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual.

(b) Additional authority of government entities Notwithstanding any other provision of Federal, State, or local law, no person or agency may prohibit, or in any way restrict, a Federal, State, or local government entity from doing any of the following with respect to information regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual:
(1) Sending such information to, or requesting or receiving such
information from, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
(2) Maintaining such information.
(3) Exchanging such information with any other Federal, State, or local
government entity.

(c) Obligation to respond to inquiries The Immigration and Naturalization Service shall respond to an inquiry by a Federal, State, or local government agency, seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.

AKA, by federal law, they have always had the right to request immigration status updates via INS.