Mavericks 'not nearly good enough to win a title'

[duncan228]

Taylor: Mavericks 'not nearly good enough to win a title' (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/050110dnspotaylor.367d2eb.html)
by Jean-Jacques Taylor / The Dallas Morning News

The Mavs played to their pedigree when it mattered most, which is why their season ended with a first-round playoff loss.

Again.

That's three times in four years. You shouldn't be surprised. The Mavs seemingly do this every year.

They play great in the regular season and collapse in the playoffs. The franchise proudly points out how it has 10 consecutive 50-win seasons, something only three other franchises have accomplished.

The difference is that the Celtics with Bill Russell, the Lakers with Magic Johnson and the Spurs with Tim Duncan each won multiple titles. The Mavs have advanced to the NBA Finals only once – and none of us will ever forget that historic collapse against Miami.

There's no shame in losing when you compete as hard as you can for as long as you can.

They played like chumps in the first quarter, when the game was decided. The Mavs, owners of the NBA's best road record (27-14) during the regular season, let San Antonio's raucous crowd intimidate them.

The Mavs scored eight points in the first quarter, the fewest in franchise playoff history. When it ended, they trailed 22-8.

At the end of the first half, Dirk Nowitzki had eight points and four fouls, Jason Kidd had one assist and zero points and Jason Terry was also scoreless.

Only Dirk redeemed himself in the second half, finishing with 33 points and giving Dallas a brief one-point lead in the third quarter.

You're simply not going to beat a franchise like San Antonio, which has won four titles since 1999, when Terry makes one of seven shots. Or when Kidd, excellent during the season, has virtually no impact. Or when starting center Brendan Haywood makes his only basket in the fourth quarter.

And it's really hard to win on a night when Rick Carlisle benches Roddy Beaubois in the fourth quarter after the rookie has scored 16 points in 20 minutes.

Afterward, Mark Cuban exhibited his usual petulance with thinly veiled whining about the officials. While you have to love Cuban's passion and willingness to spend money – the trade with Washington cost him about $30 million – he's created an atmosphere in which it's OK to suggest there's some other reason the Mavs lost besides their own incompetence.

There's not.

When presented with an opportunity to acquire Haywood, Caron Butler and DeShawn Stevenson, Cuban said he stayed in the shower for about 30 minutes contemplating whether to make the deal.

Well, it's time for another long, hot shower.

The Mavs, as currently constructed, are good enough to win 50 or 55 games next season, but they're not nearly good enough to win a title.

Any change that doesn't include Dirk – trading him would be foolish – is strictly cosmetic. Moving Kidd or Terry isn't going to happen because of their massive contracts.

Carlisle, outcoached by Gregg Popovich, isn't going anywhere because Cuban is already paying Avery Johnson not to coach.

There's really only one hope: Roddy B. spends the summer working at point guard and becomes the star Dirk has never had. His speed and uncanny ability to drive to the basket give him star potential.

The disappointment of losing is so bad, Dirk actually sounds like he's thinking about opting out of his contract and exploring free agency. None of us really believes he'll do it because he loves the Mavs, the only team he's ever played for, and no one can pay him more than Cuban.

Still, he had never wanted to even think about exploring another option.

As usual, Dirk had no consistent help. Perhaps he's grown weary of carrying this team year after year without the ultimate payoff.

Can you blame him?

[badfish22]

Good old high and low Jean-Jacques Taylor.
He probably has the lowest word per sentence count in the nation. He actually did pretty good in that regard with this article.

[MiamiHeat]

Dirk cannot be a #1 option and win a ring unless he gets a Kobe Bryant Laker-type front office and owner to build a team that is so stacked, they can lift you up and let you take the glory like Kobe.

Dirk needs to move on. He will never win a ring in Dallas.

and in my opinion, they should have kept Avery.

[Ghazi]

^ Easy to say after the refs gift wrapped that fraudulent title for the Cheat and D-whistle.


Beaubois and Dampier are the best hopes for this offseason.

[mystargtr34]

I disagree. They ran into a pretty damn good Spurs team that got healthy and clicking at exactly the right time. Theyre definately alot closer than your normal first round exit team - put it that way.

Anyway, i think they have alot of room to improve, from their current personnel, and what they could potentially add.

1. Full pre-season with their new pieces.
2. Roddy B. This kid could be special, A healthy Devin Harris type penetration and scoring, but with a three point shot.

New pieces...

1. Dampier's contract could fetch them an All-Star.
2. They have no chance of moving Marion, so they should look to move Butler if they can get an upgrade at the 2 with Dampier's contract.

I disagree about Dirk not being able to win as the main guy. People were saying the same thing about Kobe after Shaq left, until Pau came along. Dirk has never had a second option as good as a Manu/Parker or a Gasol - so if he gets a better second option, i dont see why he couldnt be the number 1 guy on a championship team.

[timvpimp]

^ Easy to say after the refs gift wrapped that fraudulent title for the Cheat and D-whistle.


Beaubois and Dampier are the best hopes for this offseason.

Donnie's idiocy pretty much negates the potential value of Dampier's contract, and Beaubois will probably turn forlorn if the coach continues to be the same old retard. you can't heal a cold by lopping the nose off, you know. Their tawdry FO is Mavs primary lesion the surgery should be operated on.

[xellos88330]

IMO, the Mavericks played a terrible mental game. I blame Terry and Najera.

With the series getting more physical, Najera gets two flagrants in consecutive games drawing the attention of the refs. Terry stating that it will get even worse to the media also drew attention to them.

In the first quarter, the refs were basically left with no choice but to control the physicality that the Mavs would bring early out of fear of things getting out of control and players getting injured. Should have kept your trap shut Terry.

Mavs fans were happy about the flagrant Najera commited on Manu by claiming them as a sign of toughness. It only further encouraged him to attempt to be a hockey "enforcer" and repeat it the next game. All eyes were on you Najera, you should have known better than to succumb to what fans' idea of toughness is.

One more thing Terry did was place extra pressure on a team on the verge of elimination by stating a guarantee that the series would be going back to Dallas for a game 7. Not a wise decision for a team with a monkey (lack of mental fortitude) on its back.

[MiamiHeat]

I disagree about Dirk not being able to win as the main guy. People were saying the same thing about Kobe after Shaq left, until Pau came along. Dirk has never had a second option as good as a Manu/Parker or a Gasol - so if he gets a better second option, i dont see why he couldnt be the number 1 guy on a championship team.

Kobe still hasn't won as the true main guy.

He's a chucker who's been lifted up by an incredibly stacked team. The Gasol trade was a robbery. The Lakers have the best frontcourt in the past 15 years.

The Lakers are a special type of organization. If you want to be a superstar and win rings, you go to the Lakers. Their front office does ANYTHING to build a team for you, even if you are a rapist and a chucking ballhog who doesn't know how to lead.

[Bob Lanier]

IMO, the Mavericks played a terrible mental game. I blame Terry and Najera.
lol, charmin-soft western conference fan

[baseline bum]

The Lakers have the best frontcourt in the past 15 years.

You can't be serious.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/0001images/DuncanRobinsonL.jpg

[baseline bum]

Another superior frontcourt of the last 15 years

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Robert%20Horry/4%20L%20A%20Lakers/2.jpg

[baseline bum]

I'd take this one too:

http://www.wikinoticia.com/images/espaciodeportes.com/espaciodeportes.com.wp-content.a-divac-i-thumb.jpg

[baseline bum]

And this one's obvious too (before KG screwed his knee)

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Portland+Trail+Blazers+v+Boston+Celtics+X3UyJZd6jh 2l.jpg http://lebrownstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/paul_pierce11.jpg

[Cane]

You're not going anywhere if Kidd and Terry have to play big roles. They just fail to compete in this era of quick guards to the point where you have to play guys like JJ Barea.

But like usual, Dallas finds itself in a good position to make huge roster changes.

Also not sure if Carlisle has what it takes to take on the premier coaches in the league - all of his moves screamed desperation whether it was Najera or the haphazard rotations. Just about everyone on that team got their minutes shifted around and some of their starters didn't even get to play in the 4th.

Understandable given the effort that was put out and maybe the amount of time they had to jell; still the product on the floor needs a recall.

They need a good center to do the "big man" dirty work that Dirk isn't renowned for and guys that can penetrate in the lane and can defend against quick guards. Kidd's minutes also needs to be monitored and rationed appropriately - he's been playing way too much and that just doesn't help his already slow and old legs.

[MiamiHeat]

frontcourt includes SF's , buddy.

Bynum
Gasol
Odom

is better than Robinson-Duncan, and Shaq-Lakers.

Perkins-KG-Pierce is great, but KG is not what he used to be. You are going off of reputation. He's not the same player anymore.

Bynum-Gasol-Odom trumps all of those you posted.

[baseline bum]

No way in hell Bynum-Gasol-Odom is better than two first-ballot Hall of Famers in their primes in Duncan/Robinson plus a good defensive player in Elliott. No way in hell Bynum-Gasol-Odom is better than a top 5 all-time center in Shaq, a top 5 clutch shooter who's also an extremely versatile defender in Horry, and a lockdown defender in Fox. No way Bynum-Gasol-Odom is stronger than the best passing frontcourt in NBA history with a prime Webber, a prime Divac, and Stojakovic before he sucked. No way Bynum-Gasol-Odom even touches the 08 Celtics with Perkins and Garnett setting monster screens and beating the shit out of teams inside, not to mention Paul Pierce's clutch shooting.

Don't get me wrong; Kobe's team is stacked, but his frontcourt doesn't have A+ HOF-grade talent like all the others I mentioned above. It's not even close.

[timvpimp]

The more stacked Lakers Front court is, the more pathetic/uncompetitive Kobe will get proved to be when the Lakers get curbstomped in finals by Magic, Cavs or Celtics.

[stretch]

No way in hell Bynum-Gasol-Odom is better than two first-ballot Hall of Famers in their primes in Duncan/Robinson plus a good defensive player in Elliott. No way in hell Bynum-Gasol-Odom is better than a top 5 all-time center in Shaq, a top 5 clutch shooter who's also an extremely versatile defender in Horry, and a lockdown defender in Fox. No way Bynum-Gasol-Odom is stronger than the best passing frontcourt in NBA history with a prime Webber, a prime Divac, and Stojakovic before he sucked. No way Bynum-Gasol-Odom even touches the 08 Celtics with Perkins and Garnett setting monster screens and beating the shit out of teams inside, not to mention Paul Pierce's clutch shooting.

Don't get me wrong; Kobe's team is stacked, but his frontcourt doesn't have A+ HOF-grade talent like all the others I mentioned above. It's not even close.

You are selling the Lakers frontline quite short. yeah, they have their shortcomings, but they have three guys that are all VERY capable of averaging 20 and 10 for a season. It may not have the star power of those other front courts, but it definitely can compete very well with any frontcourt. The only one that is undoubtely better imho is Duncan/Robinson, but the rest are all arguable.

The only thing that holds this Laker frontcourt back from being the best frontcourt ever (despite probably being the most talented frontcourt ever) are their mental attitudes. Bynum is a crybaby bitch who acts like a faggot when he doesnt get his way. Pau sometimes is a fucking beast, but other times is soft as shit. Odom is one of the most talented and gifted players in NBA history, but sometimes just doesn't give a shit.

Then again, we all know what a fucking moron you are of a poster, and that it's impossible for you to post with any sort of logic as you have the entire spurs teams dicks in your mouth 24/7. You act like a bitch and take shit personally when someone says something that you feel is a remote slight against the Spurs. Fucking dumbshit.

[exstatic]

Afterward, Mark Cuban exhibited his usual petulance with thinly veiled whining about the officials. While you have to love Cuban's passion and willingness to spend money – the trade with Washington cost him about $30 million – he's created an atmosphere in which it's OK to suggest there's some other reason the Mavs lost besides their own incompetence.

I've been saying for probably two years that Cuban is the Mavs own worst enemy. He creates a culture where there is no player accountability, because it's just those mean old refs or the evil Darth Stern causing the Mavs losses.

[TampaDude]

E-cocks ready...FIGHT!!! :lol

[MateoNeygro]

frontcourt includes SF's , buddy.

Bynum
Gasol
Odom

is better than Robinson-Duncan, and Shaq-Lakers.

Perkins-KG-Pierce is great, but KG is not what he used to be. You are going off of reputation. He's not the same player anymore.

Bynum-Gasol-Odom trumps all of those you posted.

Lol fuck no. Are you high? Or just kind of dumb??

[MateoNeygro]

frontcourt includes SF's , buddy.

Bynum
Gasol
Odom

is better than Robinson-Duncan, and Shaq-Lakers.

Perkins-KG-Pierce is great, but KG is not what he used to be. You are going off of reputation. He's not the same player anymore.

Bynum-Gasol-Odom trumps all of those you posted.

I'd say they are better than KG, Pierce and Perkins and Maybe Divac, Webber and Stojakovic but not better than Duncan, Robinson, Elliott or Shaq, Horry, Fox just because of how dominant Shaq was.

[DJ Mbenga]

And this one's obvious too (before KG screwed his knee)

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Portland+Trail+Blazers+v+Boston+Celtics+X3UyJZd6jh 2l.jpg http://lebrownstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/paul_pierce11.jpg

shaq by himself can probably defeat any choice. shaq and samaki walker

[BlackSwordsMan]

writer had nothing better to write about?

[MmP]

Kidd no being able to do anything offensively inside the three point line is too much of a liability. I thought Dallas had a great time it's just that you have to involve your players more, going all Dirk in the off it's too much load for him. You gotta give pick and roll to the bareas and haywoods, butler. To create their offense on their own.

[kamikazi_player]

Shaq with anybody back in his dominant prime beats any frontcourt in the past 15 years. That guy was such a beast and there was no one to stop him during that stretch.

[kamikazi_player]

And lol to the guy who said Bynum could average 20 and 10, stupid dumbshit.

[mavsfan1000]

This especially had no chance with Kidd as the point guard. Harris choked but Kidd plainly just isn't good enough.

[Giuseppe]

It's not Kidd's fault. Your top 8 guys can be stuffed into a giant sized burlap sack. Close your eyes, stick you hand in and it don't matter who you pick out of there. You have no blue chippers on your entire team. And what's more: the rest of the NBA knows it.

[jag]

It's not Kidd's fault. Your top 8 guys can be stuffed into a giant sized burlap sack. Close your eyes, stick you hand in and it don't matter who you pick out of there. You have no blue chippers on your entire team. And what's more: the rest of the NBA knows it.

everyone but cuban

[mavsfan1000]

It's not Kidd's fault. Your top 8 guys can be stuffed into a giant sized burlap sack. Close your eyes, stick you hand in and it don't matter who you pick out of there. You have no blue chippers on your entire team. And what's more: the rest of the NBA knows it.
Kidd is totally useless in the halfcourt. Playoff basketball is how well you do in the halfcourt. Kidd is a lazy fuck in halfcourt and has no offensive moves and it hurts the team.

[baseline bum]

You are selling the Lakers frontline quite short. yeah, they have their shortcomings, but they have three guys that are all VERY capable of averaging 20 and 10 for a season. It may not have the star power of those other front courts, but it definitely can compete very well with any frontcourt. The only one that is undoubtely better imho is Duncan/Robinson, but the rest are all arguable.

The only thing that holds this Laker frontcourt back from being the best frontcourt ever (despite probably being the most talented frontcourt ever) are their mental attitudes. Bynum is a crybaby bitch who acts like a faggot when he doesnt get his way. Pau sometimes is a fucking beast, but other times is soft as shit. Odom is one of the most talented and gifted players in NBA history, but sometimes just doesn't give a shit.

Then again, we all know what a fucking moron you are of a poster, and that it's impossible for you to post with any sort of logic as you have the entire spurs teams dicks in your mouth 24/7. You act like a bitch and take shit personally when someone says something that you feel is a remote slight against the Spurs. Fucking dumbshit.

Lamar Odom has never averaged more than 17 points in a season, and has only put up 10 boards twice. Andrew Bynum is capable of averaging 20 and 10 for a month, but not a season (yet). You are grossly overrating these two players. Gasol hasn't even done 20/10 in his career (though he came pretty close in 06-07). You're trivializing how hard it is for a player to put up 20/10. Odom has no chance of ever approaching that level now that he's on the downside of his career; even in his prime, he was never anywhere near it. Bynum could possibly get there if he could stay healthy, but we're talking about now and he's still pretty inconsistent. Another thing about Odom; he has no basketball IQ. For years any time you saw someone hit a game-winner against the Lakers, it was almost a given that it was Odom's man draining an open shot. There's a reason Lakers fans called him Odumb before Gasol came in to pacify them.

The 00-02 Lakers frontline was better

You're selling Shaq short. From 00-02 he was as tough a cover as Jordan in his prime, and in 00 and 01 he played pretty amazing defense. Forget 20/10, Shaq could give you production in the neighborhood of 30/10 with teams throwing constant doubles and triples at him. That Shaq is head and shoulders over any single player on the list (even Duncan, and especially since we're considering late 90s Duncan and not 02-04 Duncan, though 00-02 Shaq is still significantly better than 02-04 Duncan also); I'd take him over the combination of Bynum and Gasol and not think twice about it. As for the other two, they were role players, but they were smart role players who knew how to complement Shaq. Horry was a very underrated defender who could guard three positions. Fox was a hell of a defensive player before he got old and hit a rapid decline in 02. He single-handedly shut down the Spurs shooters in the 01 WCF and was a very underrated part of the sweep. That 01 Spurs team was murdering everyone else from the 3-point line, but Fox was amazing at rotating to shooters, crowding them, and making them take tough shots. He also had a dirty streak like Bowen, Rodman, Artest, etc. that all title contenders needed before the NBA started making the playoffs soft in the middle of the 2000s.

The 07-08 Celtics frontline was better

Obviously I can't extend it beyond that season, since Garnett became a shadow of himself after screwing up his knee in 08-09. That season though, Garnett was playing amazing defense, and you have to remember what he did to Gasol in the Finals. Perkins put up pretty pedestrian numbers, but I thought he set some of the best screens in the league and his physical play was an underrated part of that 08 title. As for Pierce, he's a sure-fire Hall of Famer who has always been a big game player, and he did a lot to harass Kobe into an awful series on top of his stellar offensive play.

The 01 through 03 Kings frontline

This one I think I'll withdraw, since Stojakovic is a bitch once the schedule gets past February and Divac's numbers weren't as good as I remembered them. Still, Webber is someone it seems like everyone forgot about. Before the knee injury in the 03 WCSF, he was a ridiculous athlete who had great range on his jumpshot, and he was a 20/10 player his entire time in Sacramento. He was pretty soft defensively, but still pretty solid on the glass, and he and Divac trail only Sabonis, Bird, and maybe Walton among frontcourt players I have seen when it comes to creativity in making passes to find easy shots for teammates. I think Webber gets too much crap form the media (like Nowitzki) for not being able to win the big one. He'll never live down leaving Horry the same way that free throw in game 3 of the Finals will always haunt Dirk's legacy. In hindsight though, I'll give you that one.

[mavsfan1000]

With Kidd and Dampier on the mavs you are basically playing 3 on 5.

[Spursmania]

writer had nothing better to write about?

It's a Dallas writer-obviously had nothing better to write about. The Old pouring salt in wound technique.

Gotta love it if you're a Spur fan or a Mav hater considering all the squawking the Mav fans have been doing all season long.:wakeup

[Mavs_man_41]

With Kidd and Dampier on the mavs you are basically playing 3 on 5.

yep, not to mention marion then it becomes 2 on 5. when 3 of your best 7 players are offensively retarded, you're going to have problems.

[stretch]

ughguhghgghgh dick in ghughug my mouth hughguhguh

ghughghh im too fucking stupid to understand what the poster i quoted said so i will go on a stupid fucking tangent about how fucking stupid and incapable i am of comprehending simple english guhgughg

ghughughughguhhhh

i said CAPABLE. anyone who thinks that those three guys dont have the ability to do so, is fucking stupid. just the same way spurs fans always say parker could be a 25 and 8 guy if he had his own team, or that ginobili could average 25 5 and 5 if he had his own team, it doesnt mean its the smartest or best fucking idea, and if they did, the teams would probably suck ass because they simply arent good enough. bynum, gasol, and odom have all shown an ability throughout their careers to put up monster numbers if they have the opportunities. however (with maybe the exception of that crybaby faggot Bynum), they also know that their teams are better off when they dont take all those opportunities away from others.

Bynum, Pau, and Odom are all INCREDIBLY talented and gifted players. Pau is arguably the most skilled big-man in the game today (with the exception of Timmy although Timmy is getting old). Bynum is (i hate saying it) the most complete center in the NBA. you can run a post-up offense through him (which you cant do with Howard because he has a massive skill-set that consists of 2 moves and a shitload of putbacks off offensive boards), he rebounds well on both ends, runs the floor well, plays solid physical defense, blocks shots, clogs the lane, sets good picks, has good hands, finishes well around the rim. the thing about Bynum, is that while hes not exceptionally great at anything, hes pretty good at everything. And Odom is probably one of the 5 most gifted players in NBA history. There is NOTHING the guy can't do, and hes also a freakish athlete. He just never really cared enough to consistently play hard, but has definitely shown he can win a game for a team, and be a superstar any given night.

What makes these three special, is that while all the other front-lines had glaring holes, this one really doesnt. Their biggest hole is mental, as to whether or not they feel like showing up. But they are by far the most balanced front-line out of any of those that you listed, in that all THREE of them have shown they are capable of dominating a game at both ends, while all the other lineups had players who had holes in their game (Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_L uck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ cant roast a team on offense consistently, same for Fox and Horry, Perkins is very mediocre and cant dominate on either end, Peja is fucking horrible on defense, etc...)

The three may not be GREATER than all those lineups, but there is a difference between GREATNESS and how good they are capable of being. When they want to, this Laker front-line can be as good as any front line in NBA history. And if they end up winning another title or two together, they probably will be considered the greatest front-line ever. But if you are comparing their greatness, then yes, I will concede that they are not greater than most of those other frontcourts (except the Kings because they never won shit)

[oh crap]

(except the Kings because they never won shit)

lol stench
lol kings have a championship in their franchise
lol perennial losers
lol would know about not ever winning shit

[Mavs_man_41]

lol stench
lol kings have a championship in their franchise
lol perennial losers
lol would know about not ever winning shit

yeah you would take offense to that, seeing as your real name is atxrocker and you're a king fan. hey man, why don't you post under that name anymore?

and the rochester royals won a title back in the early 50's, not the sacramento kings you pathetic straw grasping fuck

[baseline bum]

I understood your point perfectly. Only Gasol is capable of 20/10.

How does Odom have the capability to put up 20/10? He was the #1 man in Miami had plenty of opportunities with the Clippers and didn't even come close with either team. Then he had tons of opportunities on the Lakers to be that kind of player when he had Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown rounding out 3/5 of the Lakers starting lineup, and didn't do it there either. The closest he ever came was the year in Miami where he was a #1 option and put up 17.1 and 9.7 on a team with no one else who could grab a board other than Brian Grant on his last legs. He's not even that Odom anymore.

Bynum clearly doesn't have the ability to be a 20/10 player. He had a monster start to the season, everyone jumped on his dick, and then his game hit a brick wall. There's a big difference from being able to get 20/10 in a month and being able to do it for a season. There's no way Bynum is capable of that.

[baseline bum]

And Ginobili would never put up 25 a game over a full season on any team at any point of his career; he could never play the kind of minutes necessary to put up those numbers.

[silverblk mystix]

mavs---not nearly good enough to win a title...

water is wet

the sky is blue

balls itch


ok

[mavsfan1000]

mavs---not nearly good enough to win a title...

water is wet

the sky is blue

balls itch


ok
Tits are perky and etc.

[z0sa]

Rick Carlisle got outcoached badly. He failed on a number of substitution/rotation decisions. He made Popovich look like a genius, really. Pop had RC reeling most of the series.