George Hill becoming as good as Derrick Rose?

[ceperez]

Hill compared to Parker has a more consistent 3 point shot, better defensively, better mid range jumper and better FT percentage. Hill however has yet to show that he can create on his own. He scores from spot up 3 pointers, pick and roll plays and fast break opportunities. His ball handling and shooting have improved leaps and bounds.

If we look at Hill's draft measurements:

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 1.25" 6' 2.5" 181 6' 9" 8' 1.5" 3.0 34.0 37.5 9 12.20 3.07 NA

and compare it with Derrick Rose (the #1 draft pick)

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 1.5" 6' 2.5" 196 6' 8" 8' 2.5" 4.6 34.5 40.0 10 11.69 3.05 NA

their physical attributes are almost identical.


Derrick rose however is a better ball handler, more creative play-maker, a more explosive finisher and a player that can create his own shot.

In this year's playoffs, both players have played extremely well. Let's compare their stats:

Hill:
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2009-10 23 SAS NBA 6 209 16.7 .602 .563 2.7 9.7 6.2 3.2 1.8 0.8 5.3 17.1 122 106 0.4 0.3 0.7 0.161


Rose:
2009-10 21 CHI NBA 5 212 19.7 .497 .464 2.1 7.5 4.7 32.7 1.0 0.0 8.8 31.5 104 118 0.2 0.0 0.2 0.036

Rose PER is 19.7 ... Hill is 16.7 --- close but not better.
True shoot % - Rose is better at 19.7 versus Hill at 16.7
Effective FG% - Rose is .464 ... Hill is amazing .563
Turn Overs per 100 plays - Rose is 8.8 ... Hill has much better 5.3

The biggest difference is that Rose had an amazing 32.7 assists per 100 plays while Hill has a mere 3.2 (which makes sense when you have Manu and Parker taking the lion share of the assists).

Rose can make plays by himself and for others, Hill still needs to get to that level.

Over time however, given similar physical abilities and his ability to improve his game (he has a higher 3point percentage than Rose), he's going to be as good as Rose (the #1 draft pick). The great think about Hill is that unlike RJ, he knows how to play within the system. Also, he because he has to play within the Spurs system, he is learning to play a more controlled and deliberate game than Rose.

[spurspokesman]

Hill compared to Parker has a more consistent 3 point shot, better defensively, better mid range jumper and better FT percentage. Hill however has yet to show that he can create on his own. He scores from spot up 3 pointers, pick and roll plays and fast break opportunities. His ball handling and shooting have improved leaps and bounds.

If we look at Hill's draft measurements:

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 1.25" 6' 2.5" 181 6' 9" 8' 1.5" 3.0 34.0 37.5 9 12.20 3.07 NA

and compare it with Derrick Rose (the #1 draft pick)

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 1.5" 6' 2.5" 196 6' 8" 8' 2.5" 4.6 34.5 40.0 10 11.69 3.05 NA

their physical attributes are almost identical.


Derrick rose however is a better ball handler, more creative play-maker, a more explosive finisher and a player that can create his own shot.

In this year's playoffs, both players have played extremely well. Let's compare their stats:

Hill:
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2009-10 23 SAS NBA 6 209 16.7 .602 .563 2.7 9.7 6.2 3.2 1.8 0.8 5.3 17.1 122 106 0.4 0.3 0.7 0.161


Rose:
2009-10 21 CHI NBA 5 212 19.7 .497 .464 2.1 7.5 4.7 32.7 1.0 0.0 8.8 31.5 104 118 0.2 0.0 0.2 0.036

Rose PER is 19.7 ... Hill is 16.7 --- close but not better.
Effective FG% - Rose is .464 ... Hill is amazing .563
Turn Overs per 100 plays - Rose is 8.8 ... Hill has much better 5.3

The biggest difference is that Rose had an amazing 32.7 assists per 100 plays while Hill has a mere 3.2.

Rose can make plays by himself and for others, Hill still needs to get to that level.

Over time however, given similar physical abilities and his ability to improve his game (he has a higher 3point percentage than Rose), he's going to be as good as Rose (the #1 draft pick). The great think about Hill is that unlike RJ, he knows how to play within the system. Also, he because he has to play within the Spurs system, he is learning to play a more controlled and deliberate game than Rose.
Hill is a better three point shooter than rose and is an overall better defender. Hill is also a better spur. And for the 26th pick he is half man half amazing. Ooooey poooeeyy

[ceperez]

Hill is a better three point shooter than rose and is an overall better defender. Hill is also a better spur. And for the 26th pick he is half man half amazing. Ooooey poooeeyy

The numbers that Hill is putting up is absolutely amazing for a 2nd year - 26th round player. But for today, Rose is still a better player, but I can't say that for sure for next year or even the next couple of playoff games.

This guy is improving at a ridiculous pace.

[royal2006]

one thing is about the consistency, if he could keep that level of performance, then why not

[jason1301]

Derrick Rose, has 15pounds of muscle on G Hill. You can't disregard that.

[hsxvvd]

Easy... he's good, but are you telling me... that if the Bulls offered us to trade Rose for Hill, that you wouldn't giggle and say yes immediately?

[ceperez]

Easy... he's good, but are you telling me... that if the Bulls offered us to trade Rose for Hill, that you wouldn't giggle and say yes immediately?

I'll take Rose today. But will you be able to say the same a year from now?

[stéphane]

wow you're high right?

[King]

I'll take Rose today. But will you be able to say the same a year from now?

Yes.

And three years from now.

And five years from now.

[xellos88330]

He isn't as good yet. If Hill can get consistent all over the court, watch out NBA.

[xapatan2]

:smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

One thing's for certain, if the 2008 NBA draft was redone today George Hill would go a little higher than #26.

[myhc]

I love Hill. Like serious man, no gay, love for Hill. Absolutely ecstatic with what he's doing and what he can be when he reaches his prime. But I'll take Rose today, tomorrow, a year from today and 5 years from today without a second thought.

[rascal]

Rose is a true pg, Hill is not. Hill's game is better suited to play sg but is sloted to play pg because of lack of size.

[benefactor]

Are we seriously comparing George Hill to Derrick Rose?

Oh wait....ceperez thread. Nevermind.

[mattyc]

George Hill is a dude.

[mystargtr34]

A better comparison for Hill would be Devin Harris. George has a better long range shot, and has shown a similar uncanny ability at getting to the rim and to the line. He's actually further along than Harris was at the same stage in their careers, so his ceiling looks pretty high, considering a healthy Harris was pretty impressive last season with an increased role (21 PPG 7 APG).

George will probably never be a number one option, so he wont put up those sort of numbers, but with that chances are he will remain alot more efficient as his role becomes increasing bigger.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

Are we seriously comparing George Hill to Derrick Rose?

Oh wait....ceperez thread. Nevermind.

this.

[MaNu4Tres]

Are we seriously comparing George Hill to Derrick Rose?

Oh wait....ceperez thread. Nevermind.

[My Fault]

Hill is good and one of my favorite Spurs but the notion he is close to the level of Rose is crazy. The numbers are not really a good way to compare. Rose's numbers are based off him as number one option, so the opposing defense is focused on him. However Hill's are based him being on the court with one or two HOFers.So in his case the opposing defense is not purely focused on stopping him.

[NFGIII]

I'll take Rose today. But will you be able to say the same a year from now?

His progress from 1st to 2nd year has been amazing. I love him as a Spur but as players usually go vast improvement stops after the 2nd to 3rd year. This isn't to say that he wont continue on this pace but the odds don't favor him. I think his ability to create and handle will improve more but he fits into the 2 spot more than the 1. And come next year IF Temple shows improvement he most likely will be give a shot to be the backup 1. That would mean a starting backcourt fo TP and HIll with the second unit being Temple and Manu. Not bad IMHO :hungry:

This dude is going to be with the Spurs for years to come with a bright future. Hellava #26 pick. Kinda like that #28 pick we have early in the decade.

[resistanze]

He's already better than D-Will.

[ceperez]

He's already better than D-Will.

Now that is definitely crazy talk!

[Muser]

Derrick Rose now IMO is in contention for the best PG in the league.

[ceperez]

His progress from 1st to 2nd year has been amazing. I love him as a Spur but as players usually go vast improvement stops after the 2nd to 3rd year. This isn't to say that he wont continue on this pace but the odds don't favor him. I think his ability to create and handle will improve more but he fits into the 2 spot more than the 1. And come next year IF Temple shows improvement he most likely will be give a shot to be the backup 1. That would mean a starting backcourt fo TP and HIll with the second unit being Temple and Manu. Not bad IMHO :hungry:

This dude is going to be with the Spurs for years to come with a bright future. Hellava #26 pick. Kinda like that #28 pick we have early in the decade.

All I'm saying is that IF (BIG IF) that he makes improvements this summer (bulking up, becoming more explosive to the rim, improving ball handling skills), he could be comparable to Rose.

I mean, Tony Parker can be compared to the top guards in the league. But say for example Deron Williams, however I think Deron Williams is definitely better (but that's debatable).

[resistanze]

Now that is definitely crazy talk!

Oh NOW you recognize crazy talk :lol

[DPG21920]

Hill is better than rose at basketball...............interviews.

[ceperez]

Okay, maybe I should post the question in another way.

How many years will it take George Hill to play at the level of Derrick Rose today?

I say 1 1/2 years.

Rose, assuming he improves year over year will continue to be better than Hill. But I think Hill has the potential to be really good (not the best, but comparable to the best). Kinda like Manu is really good, but he's not better than Kobe, LeBron or even Wade.

[gaKNOW!blee]

lol @ some of these names taken before Hill in the draft.

[NFGIII]

All I'm saying is that IF (BIG IF) that he makes improvements this summer (bulking up, becoming more explosive to the rim, improving ball handling skills), he could be comparable to Rose.

I mean, Tony Parker can be compared to the top guards in the league. But say for example Deron Williams, however I think Deron Williams is definitely better (but that's debatable).

I hope you're right and he does continue to make those improvements but the oddds are against him. In fact I see him making another leap and then most likely making smaller incremental steps there after. In athletics is just seems to work out hat way. Rarely do you see a player making vast improvements later in their careers. It's that first 3 or so years that usually determines to what level they go to. IMHO

[ceperez]

I hope you're right and he does continue to make those improvements but the oddds are against him. In fact I see him making another leap and then most likely making smaller incremental steps there after. In athletics is just seems to work out hat way. Rarely do you see a player making vast improvements later in their careers. It's that first 3 or so years that usually determines to what level they go to. IMHO

Here's the thing about Hill, he didn't get a high level of competition or training at IUPUI. In the first year he was extremely raw. This year he's improving as the season moves on. His ball handling skills have improved considerably. I think his shooting is just about the same at the start of the year. The 3 point shot from the corner and his mid range jumper he had that at the beginning of the year. The difference is the confidence, and the attitude that he needs to take charge and create his own play. Now, at this stage, I doubt he can be as effective if he was double teamed.

[pjjrfan]

Easy... he's good, but are you telling me... that if the Bulls offered us to trade Rose for Hill, that you wouldn't giggle and say yes immediately?
I love Hill but I would make this trade. Rose is the franchise in Chicago, a guy you can build around, HIll is a guy who has great talent and could become a force, right now though he is a gutsy player with a great core to play off. I don't discount his level of confidence in his shot, right now for us that is very important. I think that HIll and Rose are going to be relevant in this league for quite a while.

[MateoNeygro]

No.

[duhoh]

Oh NOW you recognize crazy talk :lol

:lmao:lmao:lmao

thank you.

this is all done with assumptions that rose doesn't improve himself.

:bang:bang:bang

[Spursmania]

Not even close. Hill is a damn good player but he is not Rose caliber.

[Muser]

Saying Hill > Parker is one thing, but saying Hill > Rose is even worse. Hill is a beast and he has the potential to be great, but let's apply the brakes a bit.

[ffadicted]

I'll take Rose today. But will you be able to say the same a year from now?

Yes lol easily... and the year after... and the year after... and 5 years from now

lulz delusional spurs fans

[ceperez]

Are we seriously comparing George Hill to Derrick Rose?

Oh wait....ceperez thread. Nevermind.

So, the Bogans-Fan Boy makes another brain dead remark.

[jestersmash]

Derrick Rose now IMO is in contention for the best PG in the league.

Not really. D-will is light years ahead of this kid, at the moment.

[Cry Havoc]

Saying Hill > Parker is one thing, but saying Hill > Rose is even worse. Hill is a beast and he has the potential to be great, but let's apply the brakes a bit.

A 100% Tony Parker is on a level with Rose, as well. He's definitely not 100% right now, as evidenced by his relying on jumpers in the Dallas series.

It's amazing how quickly Spurs fans forget how dominant Parker was last year. He was a top 3 PG in the league, and might have been even better this year if he wasn't hurt most of the season.

Right now, Hill is still a full tier below a healthy Tony Parker, at least. Parker is probably 80-85% right now and they're fairly equal players, although I'd still rather have Parker for most situations.

Loving how far Hill has come along though, even if it spawns crazy threads like this.

[spursfaninla]

Rose is a true pg, Hill is not. Hill's game is better suited to play sg but is sloted to play pg because of lack of size.

what this guy said.

[spursfaninla]

I remember last year when Tony Parker went down and Hill started I went to a Bulls/Spurs game and George out played the Rookie of the year. I think D-Rose is a much better athlete and can get to the rim at will, but George wouldn't be a bad starting point guard for a rebuilding team. By "he wouldn't be bad" I meant he would be really good. Just to clear things up.

Why would you say this? Hill has not shown the ability to be an assist man of any quality. That was why we were forced to have Manu play the point with tony down, and why manu was basically the pg for the second unit.

And this is not from a lack of trying to teach Hill pg skills. Many say pg is the hardest position to teach because it is so judgment-based. Very hard to teach court vision, passing angles, controlling the pace, passing in the fast break, etc.

Now, one on one, defense/offense scoring, comparing the two is another thing.

[Doe]

Won't comment on the original, ridiculous premise.

One thing that did catch my interest is where Hill would've gone if they could re-draft. Does he make lottery/late teens? I remember draft night the Spurs got a C- or something like that from draft sites. I won't lie, I wanted to throw a brick through my TV when I heard the name George Hill.

[spursfan1000]

Hill is good but not that good, but one day he may be as good, all depends.

[spursfaninla]

Hill is a bum

If Hill is a bum, the lakers backcourt (outside Kobe) is dead.

[ohmwrecker]

Are we seriously comparing George Hill to Derrick Rose?

Oh wait....ceperez thread. Nevermind.

And yet this thread will be up to six pages by tomorrow. Proof positive that you guys are a bunch of goons.

[ohmwrecker]

Saying Hill > Parker is one thing, but saying Hill > Rose is even worse. Hill is a beast and he has the potential to be great, but let's apply the brakes a bit.

What?! Parker and Rose are pretty even. Not similar, but even. Parker is a winner with three titles and a finals MVP . . . so, edge Parker.

[sonic21]

oh god

[kace]

Saying Hill > Parker is one thing, but saying Hill > Rose is even worse.

:rollin


oh, my god, it's getting worse everyday it seems. :lol

[jag]

:rollin


oh, my god, it's getting worse everyday it seems. :lol

It's out of control. These are the same posters that will start a "Hill is overrated" thread as soon as he has a rough game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

one thing for sure hill has a bigger member correct?

[benefactor]

But for today, Rose is still a better player, but I can't say that for sure for next year or even the next couple of playoff games.


I'll take Rose today. But will you be able to say the same a year from now?

All I'm saying is that IF (BIG IF) that he makes improvements this summer (bulking up, becoming more explosive to the rim, improving ball handling skills), he could be comparable to Rose.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs24/f/2007/344/f/e/lol_wut_by_stfuah.jpg