better watch that accent...

[rjv]

tp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575213883276427528.html

Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency

State Pushes School Districts to Reassign

[superjames1992]

Well, it is kind of important for the kids to be able to understand what their teacher is saying.

[admiralsnackbar]

Only trouble with this is the assumption that there are more fluent teachers available in all areas of Arizona. If the assumption proves incorrect, and teachers deemed not fluent enough are legally barred from employment, Arizona will find itself in the position of having to add salary incentives to draw teachers to out-of-the-way districts and/or close down schools (which will dilute teacher-to-student ratios and have an obviously negative effect on total education).

Besides this costing them a fortune, it will also cause teachers who could probably find employment easily (the fluent ones) to take the jobs of those who may not be so employable, which will both hurt their economy by costing them unemployment compensation and tax dollars (state and sales).

Finally, it just may be that a person with an accent is actually the best possible teacher for communities that speak with an accent.

AZ really seems to be trying to shoot itself in the foot.

[Wild Cobra]

What's the big deal? Fluency is important in some jobs. Teaching is one of them. Perhaps these teachers should never have been accredited to begin with.

I seriously doubt the instructions included those with accents. There's a definite difference between correctly using grammar and accents.

[admiralsnackbar]

What's the big deal?

Did you read my post?

[spursfaninla]

I wrote a 60 page Note (law article) on this. Below is a very quick summary of my findings of the linguistic literature.

Grammar is a completely different issue. Pronunciation is a function of accents. We all have them.

This topic is complex. Studies show that how well a speaker is comprehended is determined not only by how closely the speaker matches the "standard" accent (all variations are accents, the accepted ones are standards).

The listener effects how well the speaker is understood. A listener who has heard a wider variety of accents will understand a new accent, or a recognized accent, better than a person exposed to fewer.

More troubling, however, is evidence that the listener will (unconsciously) TRY HARDER TO UNDERSTAND A PERSON OF EQUAL OR HIGHER SOCIAL STANDING. So, accents from europe or white countries are easier to comprehend by people who unconsciously hold people from those places, or people or higher class (if that is the case) in higher regard. In contrast, people who unconsciously respect lower class people, or people of certain ethnic heritage, less, they comprehend them less well. Minorities did this to each other too, so it is not a white-on-minority issue.

This was proven conclusively. THE SAME TAPE WITH A PICTURE OF A WHITE PERSON WAS RATED EASIER TO UNDERSTAND THAN THAT TAPE WITH A PICTURE OF AN ASIAN.

crazy. This is not about conscious racism, but it can be counter-acted through education and teaching tolerance.

The speaker should be given accent training, and the listeners should be forced to be exposed to different accents to improve their attitude and ability to understand a variety.

[DarkReign]

I have a hard time takng anyone seriously who speaks with a Southern accent or a Northeast drawl.

Call it regionalism, I am ok with that. But, to me, there is nothing more grating than a guy who pronounces his name "Aye-dee" and gets upset because I dont understand that to be "Eddie".

Southern accents are near indistinguishable from a foreign language, to me anyway. Both of those accents (South and NE) are such lazy ways of speaking. You may have been raised that way but you sure can correct it with a mild amount of respect for the English language.

[LnGrrrR]

Southern accents are near indistinguishable from a foreign language, to me anyway. Both of those accents (South and NE) are such lazy ways of speaking. You may have been raised that way but you sure can correct it with a mild amount of respect for the English language.

Speaking as a NEaster, I prefer that accent slightly more than the real thick Southern accents. I've been out of the NE long enough to where you could probably still pick up on the fact that I'm from there if you knew others from that area. It's not like I'm saying, "That fawkin guy, heah's a re-uhl fawkin queeah!" or anything. :lol

[NFGIII]

Only trouble with this is the assumption that there are more fluent teachers available in all areas of Arizona. If the assumption proves incorrect, and teachers deemed not fluent enough are legally barred from employment, Arizona will find itself in the position of having to add salary incentives to draw teachers to out-of-the-way districts and/or close down schools (which will dilute teacher-to-student ratios and have an obviously negative effect on total education).

Besides this costing them a fortune, it will also cause teachers who could probably find employment easily (the fluent ones) to take the jobs of those who may not be so employable, which will both hurt their economy by costing them unemployment compensation and tax dollars (state and sales).

Finally, it just may be that a person with an accent is actually the best possible teacher for communities that speak with an accent.

AZ really seems to be trying to shoot itself in the foot.

There needs to be some kind of middle ground on this issue. After reading the article any teacher that is deemed not fluent enough can go to classes to help in reducing their accent. That's a good move on the part of the state. And for the teachers unable to become lfuent can be assigned to other classes and not lose their jobs. And considering the funding issue this couldn't have come at a worse time, especially since it seemingly dovetails with the new immigration law recently passed.

So help those teachers that need it. Schools need their experience, especially since the state went after many native speaking Spanish teachers, whether in the USA or other Latin American countries, to fill the ranks back in the early part of the decade. Don't punish those that you recruited simply due to a changing of the wind.

Going forward concentrate on recruiting ang hiring those who are fluent to meet the standards set forth. And unfortunately since we don't live in a perfect world AZ will have to muddle through and try to educate it's children int he meantime.



This is not about conscious racism, but it can be counter-acted through education and teaching tolerance.

The speaker should be given accent training, and the listeners should be forced to be exposed to different accents to improve their attitude and ability to understand a variety.

Through education we can strip away cultural prejudices and misconceptions and move forward.

And being exposed to different accents and attitudes in an educational context can only be beneficial. IMHO

BTW I'm a military brat who has lived in Europe and Asia as well as many parts of this country with extensive travel to other parts of the world. That in itself is an education in how people live and view their world. IF you want to get along and commincate then you have to put aside your cultural perceptions and try to really understand them. I've found that once you really put forth the effort ot understand barriers seem to start coming down. Regardless of where you live I believe that most people have the same aspirations though trying to achieve them by different means.



I have a hard time takng anyone seriously who speaks with a Southern accent or a Northeast drawl.

Call it regionalism, I am ok with that. But, to me, there is nothing more grating than a guy who pronounces his name "Aye-dee" and gets upset because I dont understand that to be "Eddie".

Southern accents are near indistinguishable from a foreign language, to me anyway. Both of those accents (South and NE) are such lazy ways of speaking. You may have been raised that way but you sure can correct it with a mild amount of respect for the English language.

My roots are southern. And early on when I visited many of my relatives in Alabama I had a problem understanding what they were saying at times. Therefore my mother was a southern belle with the accent to prove it. But growing up I didn't get one - lived in England for 3 years and came back talking like them - but many a friend used to comment on what a charming accent she had. Just goes to show you how people can be acclimated to their surroundings. I never "heard" her accent but knew when she was pissed and had better stay out of sight.

[Wild Cobra]

Did you read my post?
Yes, did you read the article?

I make the distinction between fluency and accent. Sorry. A teach must, without exception, be fluent in English.

The embedded original link was bad, but easily fixed:

Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575213883276427528.html)