Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Suns - Game 2

[timvp]

Heading into Game 2, the Spurs needed a win to tie the series and capture homecourt advantage. Mission failed. Instead, the Suns showed off their depth and explosiveness in a 110-102 victory.

The Spurs played well in the first half, leading by as many as 11 points. However, Jared Dudley and the rest of the hustling Suns bench ignited Phoenix in the second quarter -- mostly by crashing the offensive glass. By halftime, all the good work San Antonio had done was erased and the game was tied 51-51.

In the third quarter, the Spurs spent much of the period with the lead. But, as has been the theme of this series, the Suns responded to every Spurs run and took a two-point lead into the final stanza.

With Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire on the bench, the Suns went small and forced Duncan out onto the perimeter -- and their plan worked to perfection. Duncan couldn't keep up with Channing Frye off of down-screens and couldn't defend Grant Hill one-on-one. By the time Nash and Stoudemire re-entered, the Suns held a six-point lead with six minutes remaining in the game. At that point, Nash orchestrated the pick-and-roll too well and the Spurs couldn't get the needed to stops to make a comeback.

The Spurs now head to San Antonio in an 0-2 hole and obviously need to win both games at home to have a chance in this series.

-Tim Duncan carried the Spurs early on. San Antonio came out trying to establish Duncan from the beginning and they did just that. He was scoring at will and the Suns looked helpless to stop him. The second half was a different ballgame, however. The Suns started to swarm Duncan more and he didn't have the space to operate. When the Suns went small, Duncan couldn't take advantage on the offensive end and was exploited on the defensive end. That double whammy doomed the Spurs in the fourth quarter. Overall, Duncan played well but he has to take advantage of the small lineups. If the small lineups continue to take advantage of him, the Spurs don't have a shot of coming back in this series. Duncan finished with 29 points, ten rebounds, three assists and two blocks, while shooting 12-for-20 from the field.

-I expect Manu Ginobili to get too much blame for this loss. Yes, he was only 2-for-8 from the field and missed all three of his two-point attempts, but the Suns were blitzing almost every pick-and-roll he was involved in. Rather than force the issue, Ginobili turned into a playmaker. He had 11 assists and three turnovers -- numbers the Spurs can surely live with. Going forward in this series, Ginobili has to find a way to consistently get into the paint. The answer may be more isolations instead of the plethora of pick-and-rolls. Defensively, Ginobili was late on some rotations but wasn't much of a liability. I'm confident he'll figure things out between now and Game 3.

-Tony Parker, who came off the bench again, was once again able to attack Phoenix's defense. He totaled 20 points and seven assists on 8-for-14 shooting from the floor. I also thought he did a very good job defending Nash. That said, Parker was just too sloppy. He had four turnovers and had a few other bad passes that broke the offense's rhythm. Parker needs to clean up his play and attack even more. The Suns don't have an answer for him; he has to play like he knows that. I want to see 20+ field goal attempts out of him in Game 3.

-George Hill played better but was still hurting the team more often than not. Defensively, the Spurs covered up his shortcomings against Nash by trapping pick-and-rolls ... although that opened up room for other Suns to get going. When Hill was defending bigger players, his lack of height was once again taken advantage of by Phoenix. He finished with 14 points on 5-for-11 shooting from the floor and 2-for-5 shooting from beyond the arc, however he was hesitant a number of times and could have done more on that end to help the Spurs. Hopefully Hill's level of play will increase in front of the home crowd.

-Statistically, no one can complain with what the Spurs got out of Richard Jefferson. He finished with 18 points, ten rebounds, three assists and two blocks, while hitting 8-of-13 shots from the floor. That said, he didn't play as well as the stats indicate. His defense was inconsistent and the Suns are thriving on defense by leaving Jefferson open. Jefferson has apparently given up on his three-point shot and is instead standing about 20 feet away from the basket when others are trying to create. While that allows Jefferson to penetrate or shoot a midrange shot when he gets the ball, the lack of spacing is hurting the overall offense. This game was a step in the right direction for Jefferson but he has to figure out a way to make the Suns pay even more for ignoring him. Or better yet, force the Suns to stop ignoring him.

-Antonio McDyess didn't do much wrong in his 22 minutes. In fact, I'm not sure why he didn't play more. He had six points on 3-for-5 shooting from the field to go along with three rebounds, an assist and a steal. I thought his defense against Stoudemire was stout and he appeared confident in his jumper. Pop really should consider playing him more as the series progresses.

-Matt Bonner was most responsible for losing the game for the Spurs. Point blank. With Frye going 5-for-6 from three-point range, San Antonio's bench bigman shooter responded by missing all four of his shots. That's a 15-point swing the Spurs simply can't overcome. You can now etch it in stone that Bonner is a playoff choker. He doesn't want to shoot open shots and he misses the ones he does take. He's now 10-for-32 from the field in the playoffs and 5-for-20 on threes. What makes it even worse is virtually all of those shots are without a soul around him. It's just a damn shame.

-DeJuan Blair played nine minutes and was hit and miss. He had four points, two rebounds and three steals. The three steals were helpful but his lack of defensive rebounds really hurt the Spurs. When the Suns have their lively bench on the court, Blair has to pull down rebounds. He has to. Next to him is either Bonner or a small ... so either Blair gets the defensive rebound or chances are the Suns get an offensive rebound.

-Keith Bogans played five first half minutes. He had a couple good moments but Pop was angered by a few boneheaded plays that included an inexplicably bad foul at the end of the first quarter. With the Suns having ten legit players in their rotation, the Spurs need someone like Bogans to step up and provide decent minutes. On this night, that didn't happen.

-I can't put too much blame on Pop tonight. The biggest mistake was playing Bonner 15 minutes and not giving those minutes to someone like McDyess ... although the Spurs are so desperate for spacing offensively that I can almost understand Pop's usage of Bonner. I disagreed with Pop not starting Parker but I'm not sure how much that move affected the game. The role players not producing better is killing the Spurs right now, as is the Spurs losing defensive concentration here and there for a few minutes at a time. I'm not sure what else Pop can do with regard to either matter. I guess the hope is that the role players do better work in front of the home crowd and the defense improves the more it see this unique Suns attack.

[rayray2k8]

That's the story of the game. Bonner's failures are hurting the spurs. Might as well just be 4 on 5 out there.
But Vander still thinks Bonner can contribute.....


Fucking idiot. :rolleyes
I was referring to Bonner by the way. :D

[MannyIsGod]

LJ tell me you don't miss Finley right now

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I just don't get why Pop doesn't stick with McDyess and his long range jumper for spacing instead of a Matt Bonner who isn't even guarded ANYWAYS.

It makes no sense when you say it out loud.

We need Bonner for spacing. He misses every shot. They don't even guard him so theres no spacing.

McDyess does hit shots. Albiet closer to the rim. But they do have to respect it.

There has to be at least some spacing advantage to leaving Dice out there.

His jumper is overall money these playoffs.

Baffles me.





I thought Pop coached bad ass this game except leaving Bonner out there too long. He was lightning quick and on point with his substitutions especially in the first quarter. Rewatch that first quarter for subs. It's a work of art. He arguably left Bogans in there too long at the very end and then Bogans goes and gets that stupid foul.


Ginobili gave us Bad Manu tonight.

And we made a conscious team effort not to guard Channing Frye.

Ball game.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

McDyess has to be getting way way more minutes. I agree with what you're saying about the reasoning behind Pop trying to play Bonner to space the floor, but at this point we need to pull the plug on him.

[crc21209]

I just don't see why Pop doesn't give all of Bonner's minutes to Dice and even some to Blair. I understand that Pop wants to "space" the floor, but what good is trying to space the floor..when the guy your counting on to shoot 3-pointers bricks every WIDE OPEN attempt he gets? I'd rather have Dice out there who can also stretch the floor (even though they would be long 2's instead of 3's). At least the damn ball would go in the basket...

[timvp]

LJ tell me you don't miss Finley right now
F Fin.

Spurs would have lost against the Mavs if Fin were still on the roster. Those McDyess minutes would have been Finley's minutes following the Game 1 loss and I'd have a fishing pole in my hand.

But yeah, this series, Finley would help. Hell, Barry or Kerr would help. Anyone who could hit a wide open three.

Shane Heal would help.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

My problem with the "spacing" issue is that teams do not even guard Bonner.
Even if he hits one or two, they do not guard him.

There is no spacing either way.

So why not leave Dice out there to hit that 20 footer at a high clip, and provide some rebounding punch?

It makes no sense to play Bonner extended minutes. None. We need him in brief spurts to spell Dice and Duncan but other than that he does not need minutes like tonight.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Shane Heal would help.

But that guy was the Bonner of the regular season :nope

[crc21209]

My problem with the "spacing" issue is that teams do not even guard Bonner.
Even if he hits one or two, they do not guard him.

There is no spacing either way.

So why not leave Dice out there to hit that 20 footer at a high clip, and provide some rebounding punch?

It makes no sense to play Bonner extended minutes. None. We need him in brief spurts to spell Dice and Duncan but other than that he does not need minutes like tonight.

Bingo. I just posted the exact same damn thing 2 posts before...

[ploto]

Spurs made 7 3's. Funny thing is Parker has 2 and Tim had 1.

[timvp]

What sucks is that now in Game 3, Pop will probably be forced to see if Bonner will hit these wide open shots at home. He could pull the plug completely on Bonner but standard logic says role playing shooters shoot better at home ... so that alone may force Pop to give Bonner yet another chance.

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't mind if Bonner went back to New Hampshire and never returned. I'm just saying what Pop will be thinking headed into Game 3.

[MannyIsGod]

Fucking Shane Heal.


Jesus Christ I can't believe we can't hit 3s.

I guess the big question is whether or not you live and die by the Bonner. I don't see how you win this series without some 3 point shooting and Bonner is the most likely source (LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL) of that shooting but I'm not sure if Pop has given up on him.

I don't care if Pop plays him anymore and unless he does a complete 180 dude is done here but how the fuck do the Spurs win without him playing well?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What sucks is that now in Game 3, Pop will probably be forced to see if Bonner will hit these wide open shots at home. He could pull the plug completely on Bonner but standard logic says role playing shooters shoot better at home ... so that alone may force Pop to give Bonner yet another chance.

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't mind if Bonner went back to New Hampshire and never returned. I'm just saying what Pop will be thinking headed into Game 3.

Well if you're Pop assumptions are correct its yet another notch on Pop's belt of bad decisions since game 1 of the Laker series in 2008.

[DesignatedT]

:lol at parker being our best 3 pt shooter now.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

how the fuck do the Spurs win without him playing well?

We don't.


Tony Parker needs to channel his inner Memphis Series 2004 Self. He hit like 4-to-5 threes a game in that sweep. And also the first two Lakers games of 2004.

It was a 6 game stretch of Tony Parker hotness the likes of which I have still not seen.

If he can give up his whack ass work with Chip for this long range jumper that still is not that dependable, and just revert to 2004 playoff Parker on his threes....we can still beat this team.


Anyone remember what I'm talking about?

[florige]

Jefferson's block on Dud was awesome. But bim not trusting his 3 point shot is killing us imo. He might as well fire away because its not like his step in 2 is automatic. And I agree that Dice needs to get more minutes. Amare did get a few bowling, elbows frailing, buckets against him, but overall he played good, and like stated before his jumper has been good during the playoffs.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Considering the Spurs had 2 winnable games on the road to start this series, I think we have a better chance to make it 2-2 heading into game 5, as the role players should perform better at home.

However, the difference so far in this series, is that the Suns are winning games they seemingly shouldn't be winning, while the Spurs are the ones giving games away.

I'll be curious to see how the Suns bench performs on the road.

[MannyIsGod]

What sucks is that now in Game 3, Pop will probably be forced to see if Bonner will hit these wide open shots at home. He could pull the plug completely on Bonner but standard logic says role playing shooters shoot better at home ... so that alone may force Pop to give Bonner yet another chance.

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't mind if Bonner went back to New Hampshire and never returned. I'm just saying what Pop will be thinking headed into Game 3.

I don't think the Spurs win this series unless he plays well. Its either him or RMJ (LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL) so I guess Pop might as well roll the dice and play them.

All season long we complained about RJ and his lack of production but what is really going to sink this team is the complete lack of 3 point shooting.

[crc21209]

What sucks is that now in Game 3, Pop will probably be forced to see if Bonner will hit these wide open shots at home. He could pull the plug completely on Bonner but standard logic says role playing shooters shoot better at home ... so that alone may force Pop to give Bonner yet another chance.

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't mind if Bonner went back to New Hampshire and never returned. I'm just saying what Pop will be thinking headed into Game 3.

The second he bricks one at home, Pop should pull the plug then..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Prahps to calling it that Dick played worse than his stats say he played. He fucked up a lot of things down the stretch and all of his points were created off better players being present on the court.

[timvp]

It's amazing how Bonner can go from a huge difference maker in the regular season to a gaping orifice in the playoffs. Got damn it is so frustrating watching a player like Bonner ruin things for the whole team. If he'd just hit 33% of his wide open shots things would be a lot different.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

You can now etch it in stone that Bonner is a playoff choker. He doesn't want to shoot open shots and he misses the ones he does take. He's now 10-for-32 from the field in the playoffs and 5-for-20 on threes. What makes it even worse is virtually all of those shots are without a soul around him. It's just a damn shame.

this is pretty telling. Bonner is just playing like garbage all over the place. Even if he's able to draw a foul or something else, the rest of the stuff he does (or doesn't do) offsets the good things by big margin.

For instance, i can't really say Mason is a playoff choker - i think his problems are others but Bonner I think he chokes big time. I remember seeing him many times passing the ball on open looks and he knows they are open, he even looks at the basket, then passes the ball with 6 secs left on the clock. Also, he seems to be outside the 3 line, then when he gets the ball, he steps in, looks up, then passes the ball. that's choking big time.

Mason at least tries to shoot the ball but just can't get the shot to fall.

[MannyIsGod]

Considering the Spurs had 2 winnable games on the road to start this series, I think we have a better chance to make it 2-2 heading into game 5, as the role players should perform better at home.

However, the difference so far in this series, is that the Suns are winning games they seemingly shouldn't be winning, while the Spurs are the ones giving games away.

I'll be curious to see how the Suns bench performs on the road.

I see the difference in this series so far being that the Suns are about 3 players deeper than the Spurs.

[crc21209]

Considering the Spurs had 2 winnable games on the road to start this series, I think we have a better chance to make it 2-2 heading into game 5, as the role players should perform better at home.

However, the difference so far in this series, is that the Suns are winning games they seemingly shouldn't be winning, while the Spurs are the ones giving games away.

I'll be curious to see how the Suns bench performs on the road.

+1. That Suns bench has never been in this situation before. 2nd round of the Playoffs, on the road, against a pretty damn good team. Their whole bench consists of nothing but young guys (Dragic, Frye, Dudley) who might not have the confidence or balls to fire away like they did in front of their home crowd.

[HarlemHeat37]

-Jefferson was worse than that IMO..his scoring numbers were nice, but he was horrible on D IMO..he had some missed rotations that led to some timely 3s by Phoenix..it's embarrassing that he still misses so many rotations at this point..he over-helps for no reason most of the time, often putting himself in bad situations..

He missed crucial box outs..Dudley and Hill beasted him whenever they felt like it..extremely poor effort defensively IMO..he basically gave up everything he scored..

-I would give Bonner one more half of basketball..he's a choker either way, but let's see if he can get off @ home in a desperation game, especially after what Channing Frye just did to him..

If he doesn't, he simply has to be benched..I don't care what the alternative is, play Ian or small ball, it doesn't matter..sign me to a 10-day, I'm straight..

-Obviously there needs to be better rotations to the shooters..Frye is a horrible shooter on the road, as I'm sure a few other Suns' role players are as well, but it probably won't matter if the Spurs don't rotate..

Duncan can't come out to guard him, but this can be avoided with simple communication and switching on the rotations..Frye was good vs. the Spurs in the regular season too, so this should not have been an issue coming into the series..this should have been planned for..I hope he got the Spurs' attention now..

-Obviously the hustle/energy factor..there's no reason for a scrub like Amundson to beast on the boards for that stretch in the 2nd, giving the Suns' multiple opportunities..

Dudley is a good player, I'm a fan of his, but he shouldn't be outrebounding 2 "bigs" like that..he was clearly giving more effort than any Spur out there and there was no match for him..ideally, Jefferson SHOULD be able to take him, but he's too soft..the only time he stopped him in this game was a block that should have been called a goaltend..

I don't care that Hairston can't shoot consistently and has a shaky dribble, I put him in against Dudley for 5 minutes or whatever..he has the athleticism and strength to give a better effort than our other scrubs..

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Tony Parker's 3 point shooting for six games of playoffs into the 2004 postseason:


2-2
4-6
1-3
4-5
1-5
2-4

It was the hottest streak of his three point shooting postseason career.

(On a side note, Robert Horry was even more impressive in that six game streak, those two guys were unconscious from the arc....fucking Lakers)

[ElNono]

What sucks is that now in Game 3, Pop will probably be forced to see if Bonner will hit these wide open shots at home. He could pull the plug completely on Bonner but standard logic says role playing shooters shoot better at home ... so that alone may force Pop to give Bonner yet another chance.

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't mind if Bonner went back to New Hampshire and never returned. I'm just saying what Pop will be thinking headed into Game 3.

Pop needs to stop overthinking this shit. We can't lose a game at home or we're done. Play your best players, very simple. Dice should play until his legs fall off from here on out.

Also, so fucking sad to see Nash has found a cozy place to hide behind RJ on defense. I also can't erase from my mind that play where Manu turns over the ball because RJ is walking into the paint while Manu is penetrating instead of staying in the corner for a wide open 3. Richard played a good game, but he still made boneheaded plays like that which are fucking aggravating.

[jjktkk]

First of all, I greatly underestimated PHX. They are a much better team than I thought. Secondly, the Spurs do not have enough 3-point shooters to space the floor. PHX is clogging up the paint on Duncan and they have no fear of the Spurs hitting from outside. Spurs are in trouble if someone doesn't step up and start hitting 3's.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Jefferson's block on Dud was awesome. But bim not trusting his 3 point shot is killing us imo. He might as well fire away because its not like his step in 2 is automatic. And I agree that Dice needs to get more minutes. Amare did get a few bowling, elbows frailing, buckets against him, but overall he played good, and like stated before his jumper has been good during the playoffs.

parker, manu and co spoon-feeding jefferson many times tonight almost made me feel pity for the guy. he's a fucking all-star... man the fuck up and play like you are supposed to play. what are we talking about.

[MannyIsGod]

It's amazing how Bonner can go from a huge difference maker in the regular season to a gaping orifice in the playoffs. Got damn it is so frustrating watching a player like Bonner ruin things for the whole team. If he'd just hit 33% of his wide open shots things would be a lot different.

You know I love that ginger bastard and I think he's done more than Spurs fans will ever given him credit for but he's just a complete void out there in the playoffs. The regression is so insanely amazing I don't even know what more to say about it.

We'll either live by RMJ or Bonner's 3s or we'll just die.

[florige]

Well if you're Pop assumptions are correct its yet another notch on Pop's belt of bad decisions since game 1 of the Laker series in 2008.

And our D HAS to get better. We can't continue letting Grant Hill look like the Grant Hill of 10 years ago.

[Manu20]

Bonner and blair should not be in the game at the same time :bang

[timvp]

Winning both of the next games is going to be difficult. They are still due for a game where they hit 12 or 13 three-pointers. Plus we haven't seen Amare really go off yet.

An underrated difference in these Suns is they don't rely on Barbosa. Barbosa is so damn bad against the Spurs but he's like the Suns tenth man against the Spurs now. Erasing both Marion and Barbosa from the equation has leveled the playing field for Phoenix, unfortunately.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'd rather rely on Parker being our three point shooter than Bonner.

He can do it.

He just needs to find that rhythm.

[Blackjack]

The role players not producing better is killing the Spurs right now, as is the Spurs losing defensive concentration here and there for a few minutes at a time.

That about sums it up.

You can break it down and get into all the minutia you'd like, but it really comes down to the Spurs not having the role players necessary to get it done -- which would be knock-down three-point shooters and intelligent defenders.

I don't want to kill George (because he's a second-year player in his first real playoff action -- it's somewhat understandable) and I don't want to kill RJ (after he did put up some solid numbers in the scoring and rebounding column) but their defensive rotations, switches and some of their close-outs were just atrocious. Ball. Man. Ball. Man. Is it such a foreign subject? Do we need to accept the switch and not make a point of fighting over, around or just for the position to defend the assignment? Again, it's somewhat excusable in the case of George, somewhat, but it's flat out inexcusable for RJ -- and they're not the only ones ... this team should probably look into seeing if they've got an ADD problem on their roster (because I'm really trying to prevent myself from calling them dense, morons, or bordering on ruhtard -- I'm trying real hard).

[crc21209]

I'd rather rely on Parker being our three point shooter than Bonner.

He can do it.

He just needs to find that rhythm.

+1. TP can actually make 3-pointers, he just chooses not to take them as much...unless he really has to.

[sabar]

We go from one of the deepest benches in the NBA to having no bench.
We go from being one of the best 3-pt shooting teams to one of the worst.

Combine this with those rare nights where the big 3 vanish and you have no real team most of the time. You know you are in trouble when you think about a 6-man rotation.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't really know why the media and so many Spurs fans thought this was going to be an easy series, no idea..a lot of people here picked the Spurs in 5 and whatever..

It was obvious in the series vs. Dallas that the short rotation and lack of 3-point shooting was going to haunt the Spurs, especially against a deep team like Phoenix..as I said last round, the Spurs fixed so many flaws to get to the 2nd round, but the most unexpected flaw is the one killing us..3-point shooting..in all my years as a Spurs fan, I can't remember the last time this was a major flaw..

[Spurminator]

A front court of Blair and Bonner is probably worse than most smallball lineups you can throw out there. Bonner is a terrible rebounder and defender and he's giving us nothing on offense. That lineup killed our momentum in the 2nd quarter.

The Suns recorded TEN offensive rebounds in the first FIVE MINUTES of the second quarter. That's about the league average per GAME in the NBA. All achieved in five minutes.

I think you're way downplaying the lack of minutes for McDyess. It was an egregious and unforgivable error by the head coach to watch his team get absolutely embarrassed on the boards and not make an adjustment. Bonner was the team's biggest weakness today, so he deserves a good helping of blame, but it is one man's decision alone to keep him on the court when he is giving us nothing.

[timvp]

-Jefferson was worse than that IMO..his scoring numbers were nice, but he was horrible on D IMO..he had some missed rotations that led to some timely 3s by Phoenix..it's embarrassing that he still misses so many rotations at this point..he over-helps for no reason most of the time, often putting himself in bad situations..

He missed crucial box outs..Dudley and Hill beasted him whenever they felt like it..extremely poor effort defensively IMO..he basically gave up everything he scored..
Good take. I probably should have been ever harsher on RJ.

In fact, I think RJ did less damage in Game 1 than in Game 2. I sometimes wonder whether the Spurs would be better off giving RJ's minutes to Bogans -- at least Bogans will shoot threes and defend with some sort of heart. And then I cry.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I could be wrong but i think if lopez comes back it could be a blessing in disguise for the spurs. i think that center playing duncan one on one will take one of the weapons away from the suns rather than adding. suns doenst' have to stop duncan, it has to stop parker, manu and another guy. so far they've been able to do that.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

whether it is bonner or dice, the suns are not guarding them, the spurs are much better off having dice out there than bonner in any given moment.

[sabar]

You also know you are in trouble when you know small-ball can do better than our second unit bigs.

[florige]

First of all, I greatly underestimated PHX. They are a much better team than I thought. Secondly, the Spurs do not have enough 3-point shooters to space the floor. PHX is clogging up the paint on Duncan and they have no fear of the Spurs hitting from outside. Spurs are in trouble if someone doesn't step up and start hitting 3's.

Man you have got to realize that they have a major chip on their shoulder when they play us anyway because of past playoff games. I knew they were going to come into this series aggressive. But we just have to find a way to maintain these leads. When we are up we go cold, but when we get down we manage to trade baskets with them, which doesn't work against a team like this.

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs need a big man to camp out at the three point line, might as well use Blair. Or McDyess. Or Mahinimi. I'm pretty sure they could each go 0-4 too.

[crc21209]

A front court of Blair and Bonner is probably worse than most smallball lineups you can throw out there. Bonner is a terrible rebounder and defender and he's giving us nothing on offense. That lineup killed our momentum in the 2nd quarter.

The Suns recorded TEN offensive rebounds in the first FIVE MINUTES of the second quarter. That's about the league average per GAME in the NBA. All achieved in five minutes.

I think you're way downplaying the lack of minutes for McDyess. It was an egregious and unforgivable error by the head coach to watch his team get absolutely embarrassed on the boards and not make an adjustment. Bonner was the team's biggest weakness today, so he deserves a good helping of blame, but it is one man's decision alone to keep him on the court when he is giving us nothing.

+1....Bonner & Blair on the court at the same time for long periods of time is just horrible. Surely Pop can mix and match TD or Dice with either one of Bonner and Blair can't he? Bonner just doesnt rebound the ball, and Blair (although a good rebounder) doesnt have the size and length inside sometimes to be able to man the paint all by himself.

[ElNono]

I don't really know why the media and so many Spurs fans thought this was going to be an easy series, no idea..a lot of people here picked the Spurs in 5 and whatever..

It was obvious in the series vs. Dallas that the short rotation and lack of 3-point shooting was going to haunt the Spurs, especially against a deep team like Phoenix..as I said last round, the Spurs fixed so many flaws to get to the 2nd round, but the most unexpected flaw is the one killing us..3-point shooting..in all my years as a Spurs fan, I can't remember the last time this was a major flaw..

When you look back at the Dallas series, Hill was hitting insane shots. We also pretty much had to rotate on only 2 good 3 point shooters (Kidd and Terry).
In these series everybody can shoot. JRich is unconscious. Then comes Frye and he's even more unconscious. Then Nash can stroke it too. The Dudley parks in the corner and nails it. Dragic is another guy you can't give him an inch. You look at stats, and we've played really solid games. If not for their 3 point ball, we take both games.

[DesignatedT]

Suns were the team I wanted to avoid since before the playoffs started. I didn't like our matchup against this team at all. I don't feel this series is over though. If we end up defending home court and winning the next 2 games I feel we will win the series. Obviously if we drop one at home were done.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If the Spurs need a big man to camp out at the three point line, might as well use Blair. Or McDyess. Or Mahinimi. I'm pretty sure they could each go 0-4 too.

exactly

at least they would definitely rebound better

[Fabbs]

-Matt Bonner was most responsible for losing the game for the Spurs. Point blank. With Frye going 5-for-6 from three-point range, San Antonio's bench bigman shooter responded by missing all four of his shots. That's a 15-point swing the Spurs simply can't overcome. You can now etch it in stone that Bonner is a playoff choker. He doesn't want to shoot open shots and he misses the ones he does take. He's now 10-for-32 from the field in the playoffs and 5-for-20 on threes. What makes it even worse is virtually all of those shots are without a soul around him. It's just a damn shame.

When you do a rewrite....this ^^^^^ cannot be harmonized with this:

-I can't put too much blame on Pop tonight. The biggest mistake was playing Bonner 15 minutes and not giving those minutes to someone like McDyess ... although the Spurs are so desperate for spacing offensively that I can almost understand Pop's usage of Bonner.
__________________________________________________ ____________


timvp -DeJuan Blair played nine minutes and was hit and miss. He had four points, two rebounds and three steals. The three steals were helpful but his lack of defensive rebounds really hurt the Spurs. When the Suns have their lively bench on the court, Blair has to pull down rebounds. He has to. Next to him is either Bonner or a small ... so either Blair gets the defensive rebound or chances are the Suns get an offensive rebound.

Could Wilt Chamberlin, Hakeem O, Younger Fatquile Oneal or anyone else pull down boards with frontline assistants named Bonehead and a smaller vs the "Suns lively bench"?
Again, why the lineup, Poop?

[Spurminator]

I'm not sure why McDyess hasn't developed a 3-point game. When you're that good from 20 feet it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to back it up a couple of feet. Maybe we let him test it out in Bonner's role over the next few games.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

When you look back at the Dallas series, Hill was hitting insane shots. We also pretty much had to rotate on only 2 good 3 point shooters (Kidd and Terry).
In these series everybody can shoot. JRich is unconscious. Then comes Frye and he's even more unconscious. Then Nash can stroke it too. The Dudley parks in the corner and nails it. Dragic is another guy you can't give him an inch. You look at stats, and we've played really solid games. If not for their 3 point ball, we take both games.

so are you saying the spurs do not have enough fire power to match their scoring even they play good defense?

[GSH]

The Spurs held the Suns to 21 points in the first quarter. Then they let them score 89 points in the next 3 quarters. The Spurs teams of the past had a knack for clamping down on defense in the 4th quarter. This one doesn't.

If the Spurs had been able to create one of those patented 3-4 minute stretches where they held the Suns scoreless, they would be coming home 1-1. They clearly aren't going to beat the Suns by outscoring them. So they better find a way of resurrecting their stingy defense, or this will be a short series.

[timvp]

You know I love that ginger bastard and I think he's done more than Spurs fans will ever given him credit for but he's just a complete void out there in the playoffs. The regression is so insanely amazing I don't even know what more to say about it.

Yeah, Spurs fans have scoffed Bonner much of the last two years but he has been pretty damn awesome in the regular season. For two straight seasons, Bonner had the best +/- stats on the team. One season may be a fluke ... but not two.

But now he doesn't like to shoot. Misses the shots he takes. Defensively, he's now a pushover. He can't grab contested rebounds. He literally can't do anything.

I've seen chokers before but Bonner's playoff choking is way worse than anything I've ever seen.

[ducks]

sure would help if manu would stay healthy in the playoffs

manu has not shot well since he got hurt
now spurs extentended him and he now have to live with him being hurt in playoffs

3 years in a row now

[BoricuaCJA]

I hated when we had Bonner and Blair on the floor at the same time. Thats when their bench just out hustled us and out rebounded us. All those offensive rebounds killed us and Bonner not making shots like usual in the playoffs fucked us up a lot. We don't have 3 pt shooters on our teams that can make it consistently. Bonner chokes, RMJ chokes!

[ElNono]

so are you saying the spurs do not have enough fire power to match their scoring even they play good defense?

No, I was pointing out that we didn't need to have that much firepower in the previous series, because it was easier to control their 3 point shooting.
Seeing that we basically have no solid 3 point shooting, right now we need to be a lot quicker and smarter on rotations, or we're going fishing.

[024]

yeah, sadly i don't think the spurs have enough depth to make it deeper in the postseason. the matchup against the mavs worked because the spurs were playing their hearts out but as the playoffs go on, they need production from the bench. as a double whammy, not only does the bench not score, they also do not play defense. it's a complete recipe for disaster against the high scoring suns.

a three point shooter needed to step up but bogans, mason, and bonner just can't make enough impact.

[TD 21]

I stopped reading as soon as I saw your typical protect Ginobili and shit on Duncan act.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

sure would help if manu would stay healthy in the playoffs

manu has not shot well since he got hurt
now spurs extentended him and he now have to live with him being hurt in playoffs

3 years in a row now

you are unbelievable man - any opportunity to drop your shit on manu is always welcome.. your act is old.

[timvp]

On second thought, not starting TP could have been more damaging than I remembered. Rewatching the first quarter, the Suns came out playing scared basketball for the first half of the first quarter. With Phoenix sucking, all the Spurs could do was build a 10-6 lead. You gotta think with Parker in the game, the Spurs could have delivered a better opening punch.

[florige]

I'm not sure why McDyess hasn't developed a 3-point game. When you're that good from 20 feet it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to back it up a couple of feet. Maybe we let him test it out in Bonner's role over the next few games.

Man I don't know If you play ball, but a couple of feet is alot no matter how automatic it is inside the lines. Everything is thrown off. I think Pop is trying to see if Bonner is the next Horry, - the grit and the confidence.

[ElNono]

Yeah, Spurs fans have scoffed Bonner much of the last two years but he has been pretty damn awesome in the regular season. For two straight seasons, Bonner had the best +/- stats on the team. One season may be a fluke ... but not two.

But now he doesn't like to shoot. Misses the shots he takes. Defensively, he's now a pushover. He can't grab contested rebounds. He literally can't do anything.

I've seen chokers before but Bonner's playoff choking is way worse than anything I've ever seen.

Come on LJ. You can't tell me you didn't even have a small suspicion about this happening. Same with Mason.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah, Spurs fans have scoffed Bonner much of the last two years but he has been pretty damn awesome in the regular season. For two straight seasons, Bonner had the best +/- stats on the team. One season may be a fluke ... but not two.

But now he doesn't like to shoot. Misses the shots he takes. Defensively, he's now a pushover. He can't grab contested rebounds. He literally can't do anything.

I've seen chokers before but Bonner's playoff choking is way worse than anything I've ever seen.

It's sad because after the first two months of this season I was convinced I was stupid for ever doubting the guy.

Now I am just flat out sad we have no other option.

I
miss ... . . .. .

finley

[ducks]

manu 2-8 is fucking sad
and his forced threes are terrible


spurs needed him to score
his act of getting hurt in the postseason is hurt

richardson clearly outplayed manu tonight

[timvp]

I stopped reading as soon as I saw your typical protect Ginobili and shit on Duncan act.

:lol I know I'm fair when Manu fans think I protect Parker, Parker fans think I protect Duncan and Duncan fans think I protect Ginobili.

[Spurminator]

Man I don't know If you play ball, but a couple of feet is alot no matter how automatic it is inside the lines. Everything is thrown off. I think Pop is trying to see if Bonner is the next Horry, - the grit and the confidence.

I'm really just grasping at straws.

[ducks]

On second thought, not starting TP could have been more damaging than I remembered. Rewatching the first quarter, the Suns came out playing scared basketball for the first half of the first quarter. With Phoenix sucking, all the Spurs could do was build a 10-6 lead. You gotta think with Parker in the game, the Spurs could have delivered a better opening punch.

duh

benching tp in first half and starting in second is stupid

if spurs need someone to come of the bench
let manu
his shooting sucks anyhow

[ElNono]

manu 2-8 is fucking sad
and his forced threes are terrible

spurs needed him to score
his act of getting hurt in the postseason is hurt

richardson clearly outplayed manu tonight

Well, you better cheer for him and hope he improves. He's going to be around 3 more seasons.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

On second thought, not starting TP could have been more damaging than I remembered. Rewatching the first quarter, the Suns came out playing scared basketball for the first half of the first quarter. With Phoenix sucking, all the Spurs could do was build a 10-6 lead. You gotta think with Parker in the game, the Spurs could have delivered a better opening punch.

I don't think opening punches are going to cut it against this team though.


We have to respond to their runs and not make them respond to ours.

So far this postseason the winner of the first quarter has won the game, EXCEPT for tonight. Tonight we won the first quarter handily and still blew it. I don't think the Suns are the kind of team you can sit on a good lead and just dominate the game.

You have to play with them and then when it comes to crunch time answer their runs and dominate them like we did in games 4 and 6 against the Mavs.

[jag]

The only reasons i can see for starting hill are to keep his confidence up, and to allow Tony to attack the Suns second unit. Even still, it doesn't make much sense because Hill and Tony end up in the backcourt at the same time anyway.

[ducks]

spurs need to trade manu for a three point threat

[SpurOutofTownFan]

this thread got hijacked by the usual culprits

[Blackjack]

I don't really know why the media and so many Spurs fans thought this was going to be an easy series, no idea..a lot of people here picked the Spurs in 5 and whatever..

It was obvious in the series vs. Dallas that the short rotation and lack of 3-point shooting was going to haunt the Spurs, especially against a deep team like Phoenix..as I said last round, the Spurs fixed so many flaws to get to the 2nd round, but the most unexpected flaw is the one killing us..3-point shooting..in all my years as a Spurs fan, I can't remember the last time this was a major flaw..

Agree. I was borderline ecstatic the Spurs got out of the first round. People tasted the success and started to expect the good ol' days from this group. Reality is, this ain't the good ol' days -- the Spurs have been and still are a flawed team and the Suns are better at doing what they're good at than the Spurs are at what's made them champions and the bane of Phoenix's existence.

The Spurs just aren't a great team defensively and they're not a better offensive team than the Suns. And if they can't hit a three, dominate the boards, win the hustle game or even roll out a successful 7-8-man rotation (when they've got some older stars and a game every-other-day), how exactly are the Spurs supposed to win?

I do see some similarities between the Suns and Hornets of '08 (teams that weren't expected to do much and that were peaking upon meeting the Spurs -- the role-players were clicking and their stars were playing at the top of their game), so I won't throw in the towel or write them off until the Suns get 4. But I didn't expect a win this series, I hoped for one. And just because it doesn't look good ... it's not going to prevent me from enjoying the games of Tim and Manu. I'm not going to be ungrateful or take this for granted.


In fact, I think RJ did less damage in Game 1 than in Game 2. I sometimes wonder whether the Spurs would be better off giving RJ's minutes to Bogans -- at least Bogans will shoot threes and defend with some sort of heart. And then I cry.

Welcome to my hell. :lol

[Borosai]

For the second straight game, the Spurs scored 102 points, which is usually enough to win. In game 2, they shot 50.6% and had fewer turnovers than the Suns. And they still lost. Sure, they could've scored more, but they lost the game on the boards. They got outworked BIG time, and after losing game 1, that's the last thing I expected.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

obviously spurs can't go 6/7 deep, bonner and bogans have to play whether you like it or not. So why not put bogans in the starting lineup. Manu is no longer attacking the basket from start, but i am sure TP will if he gets the nod. That's why starting TP and bogans along with RJ,timmy and dice makes lot of sense. Hill, bonner,blair and a fresh manu off the bench will do wonder.

[jag]

I don't think opening punches are going to cut it against this team though.


We have to respond to their runs and not make them respond to ours.

So far this postseason the winner of the first quarter has won the game, EXCEPT for tonight. Tonight we won the first quarter handily and still blew it. I don't think the Suns are the kind of team you can sit on a good lead and just dominate the game.

You have to play with them and then when it comes to crunch time answer their runs and dominate them like we did in games 4 and 6 against the Mavs.

The suns are much different than the Mavs when it comes to crunch time, though. The Mavs were extremely predictable. You knew it was going to Dirk, you just had to try and crowd him and force him into deep fadeaways. The suns can go with the nash-amare PnR, or nash will just dribble around till he gets enough space for a shot, or finds an open shooter for 3. The suns offense is just much more dynamic than the Mavs.

[ducks]

pop has to tell tp to shot 25 times like he did in the past
since most other spurs suck shooting lately

[SpurOutofTownFan]

pop has to tell tp to shot 25 times like he did in the past
since most other spurs suck shooting lately

I dont agree with your continuous bashing of manu but I do agree with this point. Tony is shooting extremely well and should be one of the keys of the game to have him shoot as many as possible.

[crc21209]

For the second straight game, the Spurs scored 102 points, which is usually enough to win. In game 2, they shot 50.6% and had fewer turnovers than the Suns. And they still lost. Sure, they could've scored more, but they lost the game on the boards. They got outworked BIG time, and after losing game 1, that's the last thing I expected.

Yup, it doesnt matter if you shoot well and take care of the ball if you give up 10000000000 2nd chance points...:td

[TD 21]

:lol I know I'm fair when Manu fans think I protect Parker, Parker fans think I protect Duncan and Duncan fans think I protect Ginobili.

I'm a fan of all three and have no bias whatsoever. When I said fan, I mean a genuine fan of all three's games, not just a fan because I'm a Spurs fan and they play for the team. I just call it like I see it, unlike some people...go back and look at your comments recently. It doesn't matter what Duncan does, there's always a dig, or a caveat, or something. As if you expect a 34-year old with bad knees and quad tendonosis to play a perfect game. But Ginobili, he can get away with anything and the blow is almost always softened. Maybe you're just not conscious of it, but I'm telling you I've noticed a recurring trend.

[Blackjack]

obviously spurs can't go 6/7 deep, bonner and bogans have to play whether you like it or not. So why not put bogans in the starting lineup. Manu is no longer attacking the basket from start, but i am sure TP will if he gets the nod. That's why starting TP and bogans along with RJ,timmy and dice makes lot of sense. Hill, bonner,blair and a fresh manu off the bench will do wonder.

You're pretty close to what I've been saying. Here's what I touched on at the half:

That's why I wanted to break up the Big 3 into tandems to start the game, starting with Tim and Tony. You spread out the trash (Bogans and Bonner), don't leave Manu to waste minutes not getting on track while they pound it into Tim, and then you've got the ability to let Manu come in after getting a read on the game and allow him to run the point to get RJ, and maybe even Blair off.

Now we've got Tim rolling pretty decent and Tony looking alright, but Manu's still looking to find his rhythm and the Suns are back in the game because Pop's rotation led him to play Bogans, Bonner and Blair at the same time; without that lineup the Spurs are up 10 (because that second unit killed them on the glass -- which is what happens when you've got Blair, Bonner and Bogans trying to man the defensive glass).

I just don't like the balance and continuity that's coming about and the rhythm it's creating with Pop's current rotation. Watching the first half just reinforced the belief.

[Das Texan]

Parker is starting Game 3.


Book it.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

and this same thing happened in the series with dallas, difference it's the spurs won

[carina_gino20]

I'm not sure why McDyess hasn't developed a 3-point game. When you're that good from 20 feet it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to back it up a couple of feet. Maybe we let him test it out in Bonner's role over the next few games.

I remember reading an interview of Chip before saying that those long 2's don't always translate to shooting a good percentage from 3. Sometimes, your jump, your release, little things like that, are good enough to make those long two's, but the same technique won't be good enough for a three.

That said, I think the Spurs have to keep going to Tony. They really can't stop him in his drives and his jumper is pretty reliable. I wasn't for Ginobili going to the bench in Game 2, but it might be a good idea now just to shake things up. Besides, if anyone could take being sent to the bench, it's Manu.

[Danny.Zhu]

It sucks. I hope this team could bounce back.

If it takes 7 games to the WCF, we could easily lose to Lakers without the rests we need.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I want parker to take 4 three point attempts per game the rest of the way.

He can do it. This, I do believe.

[mingus]

Fry is making all the difference in the world. everyone knows he willn't shoot that way on the road. If the Spurs can win games 3 and 4, and i think they will, he'll have to hit those same threes in game 5, with a lot more pressure. some guys fade when the pressure builds up, and i'm hoping he's one of those.

What's major cause for concern is that Ginobili isn't playing well at all. the Manu that we're all used to seeing perform his best when it's most needed has looked bad. i don't know what is up with him. but they'll NEED him to play well and be his normal self. if you look at the statistics, everyone played well except him. we got what we needed out of RJ and Hill.

[Trimble87]

I would like to know the reason Dice isn't seeing more action. The only reason I can think of is that his body cant handle it. Having Dice out there with Blair or Duncan is better then having Bonner with either of them. and so far this postseason Dice has been playing great...

[SenorSpur]

Yeah, Spurs fans have scoffed Bonner much of the last two years but he has been pretty damn awesome in the regular season. For two straight seasons, Bonner had the best +/- stats on the team. One season may be a fluke ... but not two.

But now he doesn't like to shoot. Misses the shots he takes. Defensively, he's now a pushover. He can't grab contested rebounds. He literally can't do anything.

I've seen chokers before but Bonner's playoff choking is way worse than anything I've ever seen.

While we're all piling on, allow me to continue.

Don't forget Bonner doesn't block out either. A couple of Dudley's offensive rebounds came about because Bonner neglected to find him and put a body on him - and the worst part was HE was in position for the defensive rebound.

[vander]

of course ST predictably blames everything on Bonner, and quickly forgets how the team continually left their 3 point shooters open, and at times looked like they had never defended a pick an roll before.

the defense/team played lazy and indecisive, and phoenix had all the hustle and intensity, so they got all the calls, all the 50/50 balls, and way to many offensive rebounds.

Bonner can't hit the 3 in the playoffs, starting to look like he'll never get over that psychological hangup, too bad, but it's on Pop to get him out of there after a couple misses.

[narmerguy]

I too want to see Parker shooting threes. It couldn't be any worse and he's got a decent deep/mid-range shot going already.

[baseline bum]

of course ST predictably blames everything on Bonner, and quickly forgets how the team continually left their 3 point shooters open, and at times looked like they had never defended a pick an roll before.

the defense/team played lazy and indecisive, and phoenix had all the hustle and intensity, so they got all the calls, all the 50/50 balls, and way to many offensive rebounds.

Bonner can't hit the 3 in the playoffs, starting to look like he'll never get over that psychological hangup, too bad, but it's on Pop to get him out of there after a couple misses.

Bonner predictably deserves to be blamed. We all get that he's not a passable rebounder, not a passable defender, and not someone with a high basketball IQ, but if he can't drain wide open shots then he's a complete and total liability.

[stéphane]

We ain't going to win games in the playoffs with the opponent scoring 100+points.
We have to shut down the role players and box out.

Bonner seriously, he is not so bad in the regular season but wow how can you choke so bad when your main weapon is the 3pt shot. I mean the guy plays in the nba for this sole reason and he can't hit a wide open 3 to save his life.

[Baseline]

Here's a tip for our coach. If you want to stop the Suns pick and roll, try looking at how the Suns completely shut down our pick and roll, both with Ginobili and with Parker. They jammed the ballhandler with not just a show from their big, but an all-out blitz, generally bumping Parker or ginobili way out atthe top of the circle. They constantly caused a disrption, which led to innumerable busted plays.

Seriously, unless we went to Tim on the block, our offense was extremely disorganized tonight.

Yet the Suns scored on practically every possession in the last six minutes of the game, and those were mostly on pick and rolls with Nash/Amare, or kickouts from Nash, who once again got into our lane unencumbered. The only time we got a stop was when they made a couple of turnovers.

Are you telling me that Popovich can't figure out a way to slow down Phoenix' offense when they run the same exact play for 48 minutes?

Some genius this guy is.

[Baseline]

While we're all piling on, allow me to continue.

Don't forget Bonner doesn't block out either. A couple of Dudley's offensive rebounds came about because Bonner neglected to find him and put a body on him - and the worst part was HE was in position for the defensive rebound.

This is true. Of all the Spur players, Bonner is the least athletic, so he should be fundamental about everything, but he's not.

When the ball goes up, the first thing you do is find an orange jersey and put a body on him. that's the whole point of every rebounding drill. Yet what does Bonner do? He turns and watches the ball, or even worse, he runs underneathte rim and waits for the carom. Dod you notice hos many long rebounds we lost tonight? That's because people weren't blocking out. If you put a body on people you can still control most long rebounds.

Neither Bonner nor RJ has blocked out all year long, so I don't anticipate they'll start in Game 3.

Once again, this is first day of high school practice stuff, yet Pop can't get his players to do these things. Very impressive.

[hsxvvd]

Andrew Gaze > Shane Heal...lol.


But then again Horry & Barry > Bonner & Mason.

[objective]

The Spurs and Bonner can't overcome Pop's glaring mistakes. And the sad fact is that if Carlisle hadn't Pop'd his team by being too stubborn to play Beaubois the Spurs probably aren't even playing right now.

I said it before this game. I said it before the series. I said it before the playoffs. I said if before last year's playoffs.

Matt Bonner getting playing time is asking to lose in the playoffs.

It's true. All you Bonner lovers can pretend like it's not true and act shocked, but in your hearts you know it's true.

And there should be no qualifying for his playing time, not anymore. Saying that Bonner should still play but if he misses his shots then pull him is ridiculous. He's already failed. Over and over and over again. It wasn't just a Mavericks thing. And if the rest of the Spurs pull this series out it won't have just been a Suns thing, because Bonner would be just as terrible against Pau, Bynum, and Odom.

He can not play, period.

The sad truth is this: based on playoff performances on record, Ian Mahinmi is a much better option than Bonner. At least he can rebound. Ian's single game against the Mavs where he had real minutes easily outshined any game of Bonner's entire playoff career.

If Pop plays Bonner again the Spurs deserve to lose. McDyess is right there. Blair is right there. Ian is right there. Any buffoonish small forward to go small with is right there. They are all better options than Bonner despite any and all flaws they might have.

And I don't care if Bonner piles on in game 3 after the real Spurs get a big lead on the Suns and then Bonner squeezes in his pile-on baskets like he did last year.

Bonner is a playoff choker, it was etched in stone long before game 2 of the 2010 2nd round.

[roycrikside]

pop has to tell tp to shot 25 times like he did in the past
since most other spurs suck shooting lately

You and CBF do realize Manu shot 40% on threes tonight, right? :lol The guy who's supposedly slumping on three pointers is 5/14 (36%) and that's with a couple of desperation ones he took at the end of Game 1.

Oh right, I forgot you guys aren't fans of math or logic. Only in the CoT is 8 field goal attempts and 11 assists considered a mortal sin. If anybody on this fucking team could shoot at all Manu would've had 20 assists like Rondo.

[admiralsnackbar]

The sad truth is this: based on playoff performances on record, Ian Mahinmi is a much better option than Bonner. At least he can rebound. Ian's single game against the Mavs where he had real minutes easily outshined any game of Bonner's entire playoff career.


Bonner played 22 to Mahinmi's 18 minutes... he got three less points, but had two fewer TOs, one less foul, and out-rebounded Mahinmi 6-2. Based on this, Mahinmi is the better option? C'mon, dude.

[sonic21]

Manu is not playing like in March, we're in trouble.

[smeagol]

-Matt Bonner was most responsible for losing the game for the Spurs. Point blank. With Frye going 5-for-6 from three-point range, San Antonio's bench bigman shooter responded by missing all four of his shots. That's a 15-point swing the Spurs simply can't overcome. You can now etch it in stone that Bonner is a playoff choker. He doesn't want to shoot open shots and he misses the ones he does take. He's now 10-for-32 from the field in the playoffs and 5-for-20 on threes. What makes it even worse is virtually all of those shots are without a soul around him. It's just a damn shame.

Again, this is the guy Spurs picked over Scola . . . :bang:bang:bang:bang

[MB3//]

The Suns bench is winning this series so far.
We had such a hard time on the pick n roll last night cause Nash and Stoudemire were able to rest half of the fourth quarter. While Tim and Tony had been out there almost the entire fourth. Fresh legs>>>dead legs.

Also, the defensive IQ on this team is just not there. Hill, Jefferson, Bonner & Blair just don't have what it takes to stay mentally focused on the defensive side the whole time they're on the court.
This is something our previous role players in our championship runs excelled at.

[royal2006]

i think you guys are too harsh on RJ, he peform better than expectation. Everyone has its own role, you don't expect RJ to be manu. He did fullfil his role of attacking the rim, especially in the first half, he settle for J lately though. Yet that is what we could ask for.
on the other hand, you wouldn't expect manu to play like RJ, would you? bricking again and again. rentlessly fouling 3 point shooter.
i would say the most disappointing player is manu. forcing too much off and def.
we have no expectation on bonner . no idea why pop still stick with him .

for the spacing issue, you will not have it if you have no decent slashing type player, suns just play passing lane. they have offensive weapons all over the court, hard for us to defend, and if you stick and defend the 3 premier shooter, less players are in the box to rebound, and suns have another 2nd chance

[wildbill2u]

The Suns have a really deep good bench who play as a unit. They put five guys out there who play like kamikazis. And they are big and fast with Frye at 6'11, Amundson at 6'9" and Richardson at 6'6'. How do we counter?

We Need a fast athletic big man who might be able to play on the perimeter against their big 3 point shooter like Channing Frye, maybe block some shots, rebound and can make some shots? We need a better matchup outside. Tim can't do it cause he's too slow these days and they exploit him.

Hmmm. I don't see anyone on our bench who fills the bill. Wait, there is one guy, hidden down there at the end---but he has a history of getting in foul trouble and doesn't have much experience. But could I afford to give up six fouls on Frye if I can chase him off the perimeter? I wouldn't try it in ordinary circumstances But when you're in extreme danger on these matchups???. . . nah, better to be safe and stay with Bonner who works hard, but really can't defend any of these guys most of the time. He might make a shot. Safe choice.

Do we need a big guard, who's a defense specialist and might be able to defend against Richardson? Garrett Temple has gotten some burn and He might even surprise with his shooting like he did in brief appearances during the regular season? Hairston would at least be active as hell on defense. Nah, let's hang with Bogans and the Washington Whizzer. Vets rule!

Do I think this would work? Who knows. We'll never see Pop take a chance when he has some proven veteran failures to draw upon.

[ElNono]

of course ST predictably blames everything on Bonner, and quickly forgets how the team continually left their 3 point shooters open, and at times looked like they had never defended a pick an roll before.

the defense/team played lazy and indecisive, and phoenix had all the hustle and intensity, so they got all the calls, all the 50/50 balls, and way to many offensive rebounds.

Bonner can't hit the 3 in the playoffs, starting to look like he'll never get over that psychological hangup, too bad, but it's on Pop to get him out of there after a couple misses.

LOL pointing at Pop now for playing him... if Pop wouldn't play him, you would be crying like a little bitch and blaming Pop for not playing him...

And who do you think was playing in the interior when they got all those offensive rebounds? Who do you think was mostly on Frye?

I'm glad Matty will be gone in the offseason, and I hope Lakerfan follows him out of here.

[George Gervin's Afro]

they are playing better than we are to this point in the series. they play good defense and shoot the three really well so i give them all the credit.

[florige]

they are playing better than we are to this point in the series. they play good defense and shoot the three really well so i give them all the credit.



Yep. And that pretty much sums it up. Its not that Manu and TP weren't trying to drive the ball, its just ever single time they did the Suns were literally collasping the lane each and every time. SO until Jefferson, Bonner, and whoever can start making them pay by hitting those outside shots we are in for a world of trouble this series. I mean c'mon, we shoud know from past series with these guys that Nash and Amare has that p@r virtually down to perfection. I don't know why we looked so lost last night when they started doing it again.

[dreamcastrocks]

I just don't get why Pop doesn't stick with McDyess and his long range jumper for spacing instead of a Matt Bonner who isn't even guarded ANYWAYS.

It makes no sense when you say it out loud.

We need Bonner for spacing. He misses every shot. They don't even guard him so theres no spacing.

McDyess does hit shots. Albiet closer to the rim. But they do have to respect it.

There has to be at least some spacing advantage to leaving Dice out there.

His jumper is overall money these playoffs.

Baffles me.



They way you guys feel about Bonner is the way the Suns feel about their starter Jarron Collins. He's a waste of space, has no offensive game, a walking foul, and doesn't even play good defense. I understand the frustration.


+1. That Suns bench has never been in this situation before. 2nd round of the Playoffs, on the road, against a pretty damn good team. Their whole bench consists of nothing but young guys (Dragic, Frye, Dudley) who might not have the confidence or balls to fire away like they did in front of their home crowd.

I'm sure they will have the confidence.

Considering the Spurs had 2 winnable games on the road to start this series, I think we have a better chance to make it 2-2 heading into game 5, as the role players should perform better at home.

However, the difference so far in this series, is that the Suns are winning games they seemingly shouldn't be winning, while the Spurs are the ones giving games away.

I'll be curious to see how the Suns bench performs on the road.


I'm sure it will be somewhere between Game 1's effort and Game 2's.


Jefferson's block on Dud was awesome. But bim not trusting his 3 point shot is killing us imo. He might as well fire away because its not like his step in 2 is automatic. And I agree that Dice needs to get more minutes. Amare did get a few bowling, elbows frailing, buckets against him, but overall he played good, and like stated before his jumper has been good during the playoffs.

The numerous replays showed that play was goaltending, and not a block. Good effort though.

[vander]

LOL pointing at Pop now for playing him... if Pop wouldn't play him, you would be crying like a little bitch and blaming Pop for not playing him...

And who do you think was playing in the interior when they got all those offensive rebounds? Who do you think was mostly on Frye?

I'm glad Matty will be gone in the offseason, and I hope Lakerfan follows him out of here.

I didn't say Pop shouldn't play him, I said Pop needs to pull him when it's apparent that he isn't hitting the 3.

"all those offensive rebounds" were not the fault of Bonner, and Bonner was only on Frye for one of his 3s I think.

[DarrinS]

If there was one bright side to this game, it was:

R. Mason DNP - Coach's Decision

[florige]

If there was one bright side to this game, it was:

R. Mason DNP - Coach's Decision



:lol True.

[ElNono]

I didn't say Pop shouldn't play him, I said Pop needs to pull him when it's apparent that he isn't hitting the 3.

What for? So when Dice misses a jumper you start asking for Bonner?


"all those offensive rebounds" were not the fault of Bonner, and Bonner was only on Frye for one of his 3s I think.

If you want to nitpick, it was mostly Blair and Bonner in that fatal 2nd quarter. You can't run away from the reality that he can't rebound the ball and that he got outworked on the boards by Dudley. As far as the threes, watch the game again.

[Brazil]

Start TP, bogans, RJ, timmy and dice.
Give Dice 30 mn
Ask TP to be our go to go guy, he needs at least 20 FGAs
Force TP shoot the 3s
Play Bonner or Blair only with Tim or Dice

[admiralsnackbar]

Getting out-worked and being unable to rebound are different things. The threes were a sore spot, but it serves us right for settling for jumpers (usually before rebounders were in place). Not a giant Bonner fan, but there aren't many options, and I refuse to buy Mahinmi can do anything for this team based on empirical data.

[MaNu4Tres]

7/15/2009 ...On the need to package Mason/Bonner for a better quality bench player...


MaNu4Tres

Yeah we have a great quantity of depth behind Duncan and McDyess and Manu and Jefferson but it's the quality of those players that will make or break Duncan's 5th championship aspirations.

[vander]

What for? So when Dice misses a jumper you start asking for Bonner?

huh? you're questioning why Bonner should be pulled if he isn't hitting the 3?



If you want to nitpick, it was mostly Blair and Bonner in that fatal 2nd quarter. You can't run away from the reality that he can't rebound the ball and that he got outworked on the boards by Dudley. As far as the threes, watch the game again.


I'll have to double check, but I don't think Bonner was so conveniently guarding dudley whenever dudley was getting rebounds and Frye whenever Frye was hitting 3's, as much as you want that to be the case :lol

also, Bonner's +/- was 0, which means, in case you don't know, that the team didn't get outscored while he was on the floor, hmm

[leemajors]

Man, if the Suns can outboard us like this, just imagine how badly the lake show would do it.

[ElNono]

huh? you're questioning why Bonner should be pulled if he isn't hitting the 3?

No, I'm questioning your short term memory...


I'll have to double check, but I don't think Bonner was so conveniently guarding dudley whenever dudley was getting rebounds and Frye whenever Frye was hitting 3's, as much as you want that to be the case :lol

You need to watch the games. Go ahead and double-check and get back to me.


also, Bonner's +/- was 0, which means, in case you don't know, that the team didn't get outscored while he was on the floor, hmm

Considering Bonner scored zero points and he clearly got scored on, that +/- has very little to do with his performance. That's exactly why +/- is a BS stat for gauging individual performances.

And if +/- is your thing, Bonner has yet to post an actual plus for the series and is -7 overall.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

[admiralsnackbar]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

The voice of reason. Thanks, man :toast

[ElNono]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

I thought we played fine games. Unfortunately, the pressure mounts now, and while I trust our big 3 and Hill/Dice to play better at home, there's absolutely no hope that anybody else will. If the previous series is any indication, those guys are the ones that are going to have to carry the load if we want to make this a series again.

[vander]

No, I'm questioning your short term memory...

You need to watch the games. Go ahead and double-check and get back to me.
well since it's just your word against mine, I'd prefer to have you double check, I'm pretty sure of what I saw. and pretty sure your delusional hatred of Bonner skewed what you thought you saw.



Considering Bonner scored zero points and he clearly got scored on, that +/- has very little to do with his performance. That's exactly why +/- is a BS stat for gauging individual performances.

And if +/- is your thing, Bonner has yet to post an actual plus for the series and is -7 overall.

you were saying that fatal second quarter and Bonner cost us the game, but if the 8 point margin of victory occurred when Bonner was not on the court... hmm...

[ElNono]

well since it's just your word against mine, I'd prefer to have you double check, I'm pretty sure of what I saw. and pretty sure your delusional hatred of Bonner skewed what you thought you saw.

You don't get to pick what reality is. But thanks for chickening out and making my point. :tu


you were saying that fatal second quarter and Bonner cost us the game, but if the 8 point margin of victory occurred when Bonner was not on the court... hmm...

They cut down an 11 point deficit when he was out there, mostly by scoring inside, that is, his area of operation.
Again, you need to put down the Excel spreadsheet and watch the games.

[vander]

You don't get to pick what reality is. But thanks for chickening out and making my point. :tu



They cut down an 11 point deficit when he was out there, mostly by scoring inside, that is, his area of operation.
Again, you need to put down the Excel spreadsheet and watch the games.

no, I'm afraid you need to watch the games :rolleyes

so you're saying that while Bonner was on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 11? and that the +/- is just a lie then? who's creating their own reality now?

[benefactor]

It is what it is. It all goes back to the Spurs simply not having the intelligent role players they have had in the past...and the one role player who becomes the championship glue. Whether it's Horry, Bowen, Kerr, etc...a glance down the bench reveals that this player just does not exist on this roster. These role players are inconsistent on defense, too young/inexperienced, too offensively challenged, too soft or just plain mentally weak.

A glance at the other side of the ball reveals a Suns bench full of solid shooters that are all too willing to take advantage of this. Even if they play worse on the road and the Spurs role players play better it will still be almost impossible to overcome over the length of a 7 game series. As LJ said, some of the Suns more explosive players/shooters have yet to truly detonate.

I'm not going to say it's over yet, but the three major players behind the Big Three...RJ, Hill and Blair...are going to have to dig deep and play their ass off for the rest of this series for the Spurs to make it out.

[ElNono]

no, I'm afraid you need to watch the games :rolleyes

Hey, it's not me using the 'I don't remember' and 'I'll have to double check' here. I watched the game twice already and will probably watch it one more time tonight.


so you're saying that while Bonner was on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 11?

In the second quarter, yes.


and that the +/- is just a lie then? who's creating their own reality now?

We obviously outscored them by 11 in the second half while he was on the court. Since he didn't score a single point, he was certainly not the reason we did that.

Do you even know how the stats you're trying to bring up work?

[elec99]

Again a spurs game came down to free throws or TOs. TOs were even, but 15 pt differential on free throws? Dont care who you are, you cannot win a game with that differential. And I believe the difference is manu, when he's not driving, he's not getting fouled. Manu has to be scoring in the paint.

Remember game 3 or 4 against LAL, Brent Barry replaced manu. Barry easily scored 20+ but Barry's points are not the same as manu points. No one fouls Barry cuz he's on the perimeter.

I'm confident Spurs will take one at home, struggling to see if they can take both. But even if they do, you still have to win one in phoenix, and to do that manus gonna have to be driving in that game to bridge the gap between free throws. In lieu of not making as many 3 pointers, we need the free throw line.

[Obstructed_View]

This game, and this series, is simply the chickens coming home to roost for the Spurs. They've failed to develop and/or keep a competent backup big on the roster, instead opting to try to win games during the regular season with three point shooting. Consequently, when George Hill absolutely can't stay in front of his man the Spurs have to sag to help. When you have to bring a guard into the paint to try to help defend due to a complete lack of shot blocking the result is wide open threes. On the other end, they only have one player on the entire team who can hit a proper three pointer in rhythm, and he's been pretty horrible on individual defense.

Can the Spurs still win this series? Sure, if the pre-nosebreak Manu shows upTony Parker gets 40 mpg from here on out. Some sign of the defense that we saw a few weeks ago would also be nice. Pop's starting to flail so the players, as usual, need to step up and bail him out before he puts Richard Jefferson in at center again.

[sa_butta]

It is what it is. It all goes back to the Spurs simply not having the intelligent role players they have had in the past...and the one role player who becomes the championship glue. Whether it's Horry, Bowen, Kerr, etc...a glance down the bench reveals that this player just does not exist on this roster. These role players are inconsistent on defense, too young/inexperienced, too offensively challenged, too soft or just plain mentally weak.

A glance at the other side of the ball reveals a Suns bench full of solid shooters that are all too willing to take advantage of this. Even if they play worse on the road and the Spurs role players play better it will still be almost impossible to overcome over the length of a 7 game series. As LJ said, some of the Suns more explosive players/shooters have yet to truly detonate.

I'm not going to say it's over yet, but the three major players behind the Big Three...RJ, Hill and Blair...are going to have to dig deep and play their ass off for the rest of this series for the Spurs to make it out.
Exactly, we just dont have the bench player with ice in his veins and who can consitently knock down that open three or make plays on d.

[TampaDude]

Man, if the Suns can outboard us like this, just imagine how badly the lake show would do it.

+1 If we somehow advance, we'll get destroyed by the Lakers.

[Agloco]

LJ tell me you don't miss Finley right now

God damm it. As much as I hate to say it, yeah. Finley's absence is hurting us quite a bit. At least he showed up during the playoffs.

[z0sa]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

:toast This man knows!

[Agloco]

Exactly, we just dont have the bench player with ice in his veins and who can consitently knock down that open three or make plays on d.

Yes, and then some. Not only did Bowen and Horry play good D, it was about keeping their man out of their comfort zone. You know, not letting a Dirk or an Amare get to their sweet spot in the first place. It's all the little things that matter, and we don't have those intangibles anymore. Hell, even Barry and Kerr knew how to keep guys off their marks long enough to help out on the defensive end.

You take those things for granted until they're gone.

[sa_butta]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.
I hope you are right, but if we do not win both of the next two games at home the series is pretty much over. Hopefully the Suns come here over confident... We just need to take it one game at a time.

ONE

[G-Nob]

Piss poor game management by Pop.
--Bonner, too many minutes, Dice, too little. TP not starting.
--Manu needs to come off the bench because he's trying to hard to get going early instead of getting the rest of his teammates involved first. Plus, the Manu/Blair combo works.
--I believe three back instead of four in transition works better and allows for better rebounding.
--The rotations are sharp and at times, lax. They must make the suns work for everything they get and there are just too many players open on the perimeter that bury them.
--You never realize the undepth of your team until you see the depth of another. Mason? Bogans? Please stand up.
--Spurs have been right there in both games and have squandered oppo's to steal both. I just don't believe this team has had an adequate amount of fear for los soles. Hopefully, they do now.

[sa_butta]

Piss poor game management by Pop.
--Bonner, too many minutes, Dice, too little. TP not starting.
--Manu needs to come off the bench because he's trying to hard to get going early instead of getting the rest of his teammates involved first. Plus, the Manu/Blair combo works.
--I believe three back instead of four in transition works better and allows for better rebounding.
--The rotations are sharp and at times, lax. They must make the suns work for everything they get and there are just too many players open on the perimeter that bury them.
--You never realize the undepth of your team until you see the depth of another. Mason? Bogans? Please stand up.
--Spurs have been right there in both games and have squandered oppo's to steal both. I just don't believe this team has had an adequate amount of fear for los soles. Hopefully, they do now.
Thats a good one for me, I notice we are so worried about transition d. that we get very few offensive rebounds. Phoenix gets so many 2nd chance points, 50/50 balls and long rebounds. It just seems we are not agressive to go after the ball the whole game. I did see the intensity during desparation time in the 4th, but it is too late there.

[MannyIsGod]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still competitive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

I'm fairly certain something like 8 out of 10 teams who go down 0-2 lose that series. There's an appropriate amount of fear here right now.

[sa_butta]

I'm fairly certain something like 8 out of 10 teams who go down 0-2 lose that series. There's an appropriate amount of fear here right now.
We were down 0-2 to the Hornets in 08....
However this is not your 2008 Hornets team...so yeah Im scared...

[MannyIsGod]

We were down 0-2 to the Hornets in 08....
However this is not your 2008 Hornets team...so yeah Im scared...

We we know the Spurs condition after that series as well. We'll see how it works out, but I don't see why anyone should be happy or even comfortable being down 0-2. There are positives, but there is no way they outweigh the negatives.

[florige]

Not trying to get ahead of anything by any means. But if we somehow won the championship this year I think it would be safe to say that this would had been def the hardest. Beating Dallas, coming back from 0-2 to beat Phx, beating LA, then on to play either more than likely the Celtics or LeCrab James.

[Josepatches_]

I'd rather rely on Parker being our three point shooter than Bonner.

He can do it.

He just needs to find that rhythm.

I'd rather rely on Duncan .2 of 2 against Phoenix in the playoffs. :flag:


If Parker's 3s is the only way to win these series then we are fucked

[PDXSpursFan]

...
I guess the hope is that the role players do better work in front of the home crowd and the defense improves the more it see this unique suns attack.

+1

[polandprzem]

I'm sorry for not reading all the thread but I have not much time doing it now.
I've read two first pages though

To me it's unbelievable. There is mismatch in every ,matchup on the floor no matter what. Gentry had to study 1-1 matchups and bringing some catchy plays. Like losing guy on a screen and cut to the basket. Tim on isos etc.
Suns right now plays like a machine and while Tim is having a war on the floor, Nash is lying like on a sunny beach and resting his old bones.


Three guys had to step up like I said - Bogans Blair and Bonner. At first I thought that those guys can produce some quality minutes and rest starters. Then it occurred that Bonner is not hitting jack from his spots and Blair is outhustled on the glass.
It looked like the spurs players had no heart.
Dallas series was tough but we had 3 days to prepare for the suns.


Again with those pick and rolls. We getting destroyed. We should dominate the Suns but it's other way around. We had not much advantage while making this play- Suns were denying most of them.


Our spacing is one of the worst in TD era. Suns defending on 16 feet away from the basket and spurs can't hit bucket from 16ft out. :rolleyes
Demoralizing


No rebs, bad transition, treys[spacing] - where fricking mason was suppose to be our 3pt threat as well as Bonner. I miss Barry.

No firepower will bite us once again.

we are screwed. No bench whatsoever.

Wtf ? :pctoss

[G-Nob]

What game were you watching? Manu had like 4 assists in the first quarter. He was getting Tim, RJ and Hill involved he only took 3 shots in the first quarter ( I don't count that full court 3 pointer he took with 1.2 seconds left on the clock when Bogans fouled Barbosa)

I haven't see so much hate for a player who took only 8 shots total while getting everyone else involved. Everyone is acting like Manu took 25 shots and never passed the ball. What do you want him to do when the Suns try to trap him? Force the issue and turn it over instead of passing it to the open man?

Its got nothing to do bashing Manu. Los Suns are obviously making a concerted effort of slowing him down. Its got everything to do with the spark he could bring as the suns starters start to wind down. The point is, TP must start to make Nash work and penetrate. One less scorer means RJ gets more involved with the offense with Manu on the bench. Bringing Manu in could also help in resting Duncan quicker.
Not making that adjustment cost Pop game two. Starting TP was a no-brainer to get the spurs off to a good start mentally.

[phxspurfan]

I don't really know why the media and so many Spurs fans thought this was going to be an easy series, no idea..a lot of people here picked the Spurs in 5 and whatever..

It was obvious in the series vs. Dallas that the short rotation and lack of 3-point shooting was going to haunt the Spurs, especially against a deep team like Phoenix..as I said last round, the Spurs fixed so many flaws to get to the 2nd round, but the most unexpected flaw is the one killing us..3-point shooting..in all my years as a Spurs fan, I can't remember the last time this was a major flaw..

Try 01-02 and 02-03 before we got Barry. Those playoff losses (especially the one against the Lakers where I think we got swept) were due to zero shooting around TD.

[NFGIII]

I had a thought about changing the starting lineup to this:

TD/Dice/Bogans/Hill/TP

So the 2nd unit would be:

Manu/RJ/Blair/Bonner and ??? Most likely switching from TP to Hill and leaving RMJ in street clothes.

At first this scared the crap out of me. I mean I actually thought of starting Bogans again! :spless: And in the POs? :pctoss And it may be too late now to do this but this was our starting lineup when things started to click a couple of months ago. The only reason Manu is starting was due to TP's injury. If that hadn't of happened Manu still would be coming off the bench. If they lose game 3 or 4 then they have nothing to lose since the odds of teams coming back from either 3-0 (0) or 3-1 (8 out of 192 =4.17% IIRC ) are pretty dismal.

Or using Hairston in the second unit as Timvp suggested but RMJ is pretty much done in this series and forever in SA.

[dbreiden83080]

Spurs will win game 3.. I'd be shocked if they don't.. Game 4 will be a barnburner, and will come down to the wire. Gotta man up and get em both..

It's not like 2-0 is something we can't overcome. We came back 3-1 down on the Mavs in 06 and would have won game 7 likely had Manu not fouled Dirk. We came back on the Hornets in 2008 down 0-2 to win in 7. If we put the pressure back on the Suns to win game 5 in their place tied at 2, we can win this series. Right now they are flying high. But we come back big in SA and the "Can we really beat the Spurs" thoughts will creep into their heads..

[clubalien]

instead of playing bonner andblair at the same time. How about giving theo and blair soem time together

[pad300]

instead of playing bonner andblair at the same time. How about giving theo and blair soem time together

Um, Theo's no longer with the team...

[florige]

Spurs will win game 3.. I'd be shocked if they don't.. Game 4 will be a barnburner, and will come down to the wire. Gotta man up and get em both..

It's not like 2-0 is something we can't overcome. We came back 3-1 down on the Mavs in 06 and would have won game 7 likely had Manu not fouled Dirk. We came back on the Hornets in 2008 down 0-2 to win in 7. If we put the pressure back on the Suns to win game 5 in their place tied at 2, we can win this series. Right now they are flying high. But we come back big in SA and the "Can we really beat the Spurs" thoughts will creep into their heads..


Thats my thinking as well. If we take them to a game 7 I would be willing to almost guarantee they wouldn't win that game.

[dbreiden83080]

Thats my thinking as well. If we take them to a game 7 I would be willing to almost guarantee they wouldn't win that game.

Spurs still have a mental edge on the Suns. How could they not when we ousted them in 2005, 2007 and 2008 with the core group of Tony, Manu and Tim still on the floor? They played great at home, but a little pressure can change it all. Spurs go home and get even and then we'll see what this years Suns are really made of..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Do you guys think McDyess has a shot at getting around 30 mpg in Game 3?

[DDS4]

I still have faith, games 1 and 2 were relatively close. The Suns didn't exactly run the Spurs off the court.

Contrast that to the Hornets series in 2008, the Spurs were blown out of the water in games 1, 2, and 5. They lost by more than 20+ points in each game. I had serious doubts about game 7.

[rmt]

Spurs will win game 3.. I'd be shocked if they don't.. Game 4 will be a barnburner, and will come down to the wire. Gotta man up and get em both..

It's not like 2-0 is something we can't overcome. We came back 3-1 down on the Mavs in 06 and would have won game 7 likely had Manu not fouled Dirk. We came back on the Hornets in 2008 down 0-2 to win in 7. If we put the pressure back on the Suns to win game 5 in their place tied at 2, we can win this series. Right now they are flying high. But we come back big in SA and the "Can we really beat the Spurs" thoughts will creep into their heads..

Back then, the Spurs had a supporting cast of Bowen, Barry, Oberto, Horry and Finley - all playoff-proven players. Now the bench consists of Bonner, Mason and Bogans. Big difference. And the big 3 are a lot older. Didn't have to be so concerned about Duncan's and Manu's minutes.

[Russ]

Back then, the Spurs had a supporting cast of Bowen, Barry, Oberto, Horry and Finley - all playoff-proven players. Now the bench consists of Bonner, Mason and Bogans. Big difference. And the big 3 are a lot older. Didn't have to be so concerned about Duncan's and Manu's minutes.

Okay, this comparison seems a little bit unfair -- comparing the previous "supporting cast" to the current "bench." That leaves a lot of current contributors in an in between neverland.

Where does that leave Hill and McDyess? They should count as the Spurs' current supporting cast but don't rate a mention.

Bottom line -- I think the Spurs have enough overall talent to go as far as their prior title teams.

And tarring all of the Spurs' current bench (e.g., Bogans and Blair) with the admittedly horrific "Bonner" label is cruel and unfair. :flag:

[florige]

Okay, this comparison seems a little bit unfair -- comparing the previous "supporting cast" to the current "bench." That leaves a lot of current contributors in an in between neverland.

Where does that leave Hill and McDyess? They should count as the Spurs' current supporting cast but don't rate a mention.

Bottom line -- I think the Spurs have enough overall talent to go as far as their prior title teams.

And tarring all of the Spurs' current bench (e.g., Bogans and Blair) with the admittedly horrific "Bonner" label is cruel and unfair. :flag:



I don't think with just those two guys. Mason is so bad he should wear nothing but street clothes from now until he is out if SA. Bonner.... The last okay game I saw Bogans play was against LA in the regular season. Blair is still wet behind the ears and seems to be regressing some in the playoffs. Hill played lights out against Dallasand even though he has played pretty bad this series I will still give you Hill. Dice is really the only one who contributes something, anything consistently in the playoffs. And personally idk if Pop playing him more will change things when those other guys mentioned maybe excluding Hill are just not offering crap. Bowen, Fin, Horry, Oberto, each one of those guys brought at least one intangible to the floor to help us. Hell if I remember correctly even Vaughn would be able to come in and at least provide some solid minutes of good hard defense.

[rmt]

Okay, this comparison seems a little bit unfair -- comparing the previous "supporting cast" to the current "bench." That leaves a lot of current contributors in an in between neverland.

Where does that leave Hill and McDyess? They should count as the Spurs' current supporting cast but don't rate a mention.

Bottom line -- I think the Spurs have enough overall talent to go as far as their prior title teams.

And tarring all of the Spurs' current bench (e.g., Bogans and Blair) with the admittedly horrific "Bonner" label is cruel and unfair. :flag:

Well, Dice is a proven player and far exceeded expectations in the DAL series. He defended Dirk well, played with a lot of heart and knocked down his jump shots. Popovich has only played him 19 and 22 mins. in the PHX series.

I wouldn't call Hill a proven playoff player. He's performed well so far
and is averaging almost 14 points over 8 games. But he has not been through the wars and battles that the previous supporting cast has as evidenced by the way Nash's craftiness carved him up in the first game.

Jefferson has played in a lot of playoff games but shows up once every 3 playoff games for the Spurs. He's averaging almost 10 points a game in a lot of minutes.

What I'm trying to say (not very well, I guess) is that Hill and Jefferson (because of inexperience and inconsistency) don't inspire the sort of confidence that Bowen, Horry, Oberto, Barry did - that would lead one to think that the Spurs could win the series from a 1-3 or 0-2 deficit.

In the last game:

big 3 + Dice = 137 mins (57%)
big 3 + Dice + Hill = 168 mins (69%)
big 3 + Dice + Hill + Jefferson = 211 mins (87%)
rest of team = 30 mins. (13 %)

So outside of the big 3 and Dice, that's a whopping 43% of the minutes being played by inexperienced or inconsistent players.

I do agree that this team has the talent, in fact, even more talent than the 07 championship team. But as seen by previous Suns teams, talent alone doesn't cut it. I think Hill and Blair have heart and toughness. Don't know about the rest of the players.

I guess I should be grateful when Jefferson deigns to show up in 3 out of 8 games and hope that Manu gets back to his pre-broken nose performances and/or hits a streak of 3pters. But even if they do get out of this series, the team (without Finley's 3 point shooting and Ratliff's height) won't beat the Lakers barring an injury to Kobe or Gasol. I would be delighted to eat crow if, by some miracle, they were to win the championship :-)

[polandprzem]

instead of playing bonner andblair at the same time. How about giving theo and blair soem time together


This is the most orginal adjustemnt I have ever heard

[upTD]

:lol I know I'm fair when Manu fans think I protect Parker, Parker fans think I protect Duncan and Duncan fans think I protect Ginobili.

NO.You only protect Ginobili. It's clearly seen from your reactions.

[polandprzem]

NO.You only protect Ginobili. It's clearly seen from your reactions.

He just likes him better

whatta?