So...what's the deal?

[NameOfTheGame]

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to catch a single game of this series and have only the highlights to go off of. ('Twas a busy, busy week of finals and papers.)

So...what's your take on what the Spurs are doing wrong AND, perhaps most importantly, what they're doing right and need to do more of?

From the highlights and commentary, it seems to me that the Spurs really haven't shown much these first two games. I have a feeling Pop and the coaching staff were trying to steal one before a sneaky adjustment or two in games 3 and 4.

Which is why I say the Spurs will win game 3 by a comfortable 8-10 point margin, at least. And win a close game 4 as well.

So yeah...any insights? Thanks

[admiralsnackbar]

It's hard to fault the Spurs in this series so far. Yes, the big three could have played better, and yes, Game 1 was perfectly winnable, but Dudley and Frye came up for some really big plays in Game 2, and even then, we were in the game until the last minute. Can the Suns keep producing at that level off the bench? If yes, then they deserve the series. If not, then we have a chance.

If I have a complaint, it's that Manu kept leaving his guy to do help D and ended up leaving too many capable shooters wide open.

[NameOfTheGame]

It's hard to fault the Spurs in this series so far. Yes, the big three could have played better, and yes, Game 1 was perfectly winnable, but Dudley and Frye came up for some really big plays in Game 2, and even then, we were in the game until the last minute. Can the Suns keep producing at that level off the bench? If yes, then they deserve the series. If not, then we have a chance.

If I have a complaint, it's that Manu kept leaving his guy to do help D and ended up leaving too many capable shooters wide open.

This was basically my take as well. And Manu can and will get better as the playoffs go on. He's clearly bothered by the broken nose. (His stubborn ass should just wear the stupid mask, goddamn.)

[florige]

Read the initial thoughts thread. It pretty much sums up what is happening so far.

[ElNono]

If I have a complaint, it's that Manu kept leaving his guy to do help D and ended up leaving too many capable shooters wide open.

That kind of help is what is preventing Amare from really going off (40+ point games) and kept Nash off the paint in Game 2. I suspect Pop didn't think they could shot from downtown as well as they did in Game 1, and the gamble didn't pay off. What we need to understand is that if we close out in every possible shooter they play out there, then Amare is going to have a feast inside. At this point, it might be our only choice.

[admiralsnackbar]

Amare gets his. Such is life. Leaving preventable 3-shots open is... preventable.

[SenorSpur]

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Spurs seem incapable of defending the Suns pick-n-roll. Just once, I'd like to see the Spurs defense sit on guy (usually Amare) rolling to the bucket.

[admiralsnackbar]

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Spurs seem incapable of defending the Suns pick-n-roll. Just once, I'd like to see the Spurs defense sit on guy (usually Amare) rolling to the bucket.

What I thought was interesting about a lot of the Suns' pick-and-roll points was that they went directly back (perpendicular to the backboard) as opposed to at the more common 45 degree from the backboard. We're set up to intercept or disrupt things on an angle, but when it goes straight back, nobody is positioned to intercede.

[Agloco]

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to catch a single game of this series and have only the highlights to go off of. ('Twas a busy, busy week of finals and papers.)

So...what's your take on what the Spurs are doing wrong AND, perhaps most importantly, what they're doing right and need to do more of?

From the highlights and commentary, it seems to me that the Spurs really haven't shown much these first two games. I have a feeling Pop and the coaching staff were trying to steal one before a sneaky adjustment or two in games 3 and 4.

Which is why I say the Spurs will win game 3 by a comfortable 8-10 point margin, at least. And win a close game 4 as well.

So yeah...any insights? Thanks

Two things:

1) The Spurs have traditionally relied on their defense to stop teams like Phoenix in the 4th quarter. The Spurs were down 95-91 with just over 3 minutes left. In days past, that was a game you just knew they would pull out. Now, who knows? You could see that the defense just isn't there anymore (at least not at the level that is required to beat the Suns on the road).

2) In years past, the Spurs were one of the best three point shooting teams in the league. Doubling on Timmy meant giving up a wide open look to a Barry, Horry, Bowen, Jackson, or Kerr. Now? Well, it means that RJ, Manu, Parker or Hill is back there, and that's trouble. The Suns can double down on Timmy now and not worry about the consequences. In short, the Suns are beating us from three point land, handily.

If you throw in all the intangibles like rebounding (the Spurs were killed on the offensive glass last night) and hustle plays and execution (the Spurs worked hard for every bucket while the Suns just pick and rolled their to layups or 5 footers), the Suns are poised to make this a very short series.

[silverblk mystix]

what's happening is that the spurs and spurs fans severely UNDERESTIMATED the suns and were not prepared...

every matchup is causing similar problems as the mavs used to give the spurs---what is really worrisome is that the spurs have actually played pretty well---having three or four scorers in double figures----but it IS STILL NOT ENOUGH.

Finally, Pop is letting another team dictate the style of play and TRYING to matchup with whatever the suns are doing----instead of playing with what got you here---ie--dice and rebounding----vs. going small and overplaying that POS Bonner.

If Pop continues this---and I fear he will---the series and the season is over.

[CosmicCowboy]

Spurs perimeter game is MIA allowing the Suns to pack the paint and kill us on offensive rebounding, thus feeding their fast break. This series is over if Spurs don't fix this.

[coyotes_geek]

what's happening is that the spurs and spurs fans severely UNDERESTIMATED the suns and were not prepared...

every matchup is causing similar problems as the mavs used to give the spurs---what is really worrisome is that the spurs have actually played pretty well---having three or four scorers in double figures----but it IS STILL NOT ENOUGH.

Finally, Pop is letting another team dictate the style of play and TRYING to matchup with whatever the suns are doing----instead of playing with what got you here---ie--dice and rebounding----vs. going small and overplaying that POS Bonner.

If Pop continues this---and I fear he will---the series and the season is over.

Disagree. The Spurs did not underestimate the Suns. The fans? Yeah. The players and coaches? No.

Also, it's so easy for fans to say "Pop is letting another team dictate the style of play" like it's some conscious decision Pop is willfully making. Bullcrap. Style of play gets dictated by which team is having success on the court, not by coaching decisions. What Phoenix wants to do is working, what Pop wants to do is not. Thus it's Pop who has to react to Phoenix and not the other way around. All due respect to Antonio McDyess, but it's not like his presence on the court creates some huge scoring or rebounding mismatch that Phoenix needs to account for. Especially not when the Suns are knocking down 3's like they are.

[silverblk mystix]

Disagree. The Spurs did not underestimate the Suns. The fans? Yeah. The players and coaches? No.

Also, it's so easy for fans to say "Pop is letting another team dictate the style of play" like it's some conscious decision Pop is willfully making. Bullcrap. Style of play gets dictated by which team is having success on the court, not by coaching decisions. What Phoenix wants to do is working, what Pop wants to do is not. Thus it's Pop who has to react to Phoenix and not the other way around. All due respect to Antonio McDyess, but it's not like his presence on the court creates some huge scoring or rebounding mismatch that Phoenix needs to account for. Especially not when the Suns are knocking down 3's like they are.

point taken....but...

it is POP who is playing Bonner even though Bonner is worthless---and all this to spread the floor????

spread the floor for what???

just play spurs ball and keep TD,Dice,TP,Manu & RJ and play them all 40-44 minutes---come in with Blair and Hill and that is it---

attack the fucking basket---use your size advantage by posting up and crashing the boards everytime---let the suns play small ball and let them get destroyed by a bigger team...

[Agloco]

Disagree. The Spurs did not underestimate the Suns. The fans? Yeah. The players and coaches? No.

Also, it's so easy for fans to say "Pop is letting another team dictate the style of play" like it's some conscious decision Pop is willfully making. Bullcrap. Style of play gets dictated by which team is having success on the court, not by coaching decisions. What Phoenix wants to do is working, what Pop wants to do is not. Thus it's Pop who has to react to Phoenix and not the other way around. All due respect to Antonio McDyess, but it's not like his presence on the court creates some huge scoring or rebounding mismatch that Phoenix needs to account for. Especially not when the Suns are knocking down 3's like they are.

I'm having a hard time seeing how Bonner on the court > than McDyess on the court. They need Dice out there to chase Frye or switch out on Hill when he isolates. Right now its Timmy and that's a prescription for disaster.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm having a hard time seeing how Bonner on the court > than McDyess on the court. They need Dice out there to chase Frye or switch out on Hill when he isolates. Right now its Timmy and that's a prescription for disaster.

Bonner's playoff minutes are down about 3 per game from his regular season and Dyess' are up about 3 per game, so it looks like Pop has been cutting into Bonner's minutes and giving them to Dyess. How much more Pop should be pushing that balance is certainly fair debate.

Unfortunately for the Spurs it's a recipe for disaster no matter which big it is having to chase Frye or get switched on Hill. Love Dyess, but the Spurs situation doesn't really improve if Dyess is only one step away from being able to contest a 3 pointer by Frye as opposed to Bonner being two steps away. This is just a mismatch the Suns are going to be able to exploit until the Spurs can take control of the glass and shore up the perimeter D. As things stand right now the Suns are having success at playing small and still being able to control the boards and it's killing the Spurs. While Dyess is no doubt a better rebounder than Bonner, it doesn't help all that much if he's out on the perimeter.

[sananspursfan21]

pick'n'roll killed game 2. role players sucking and all, they still would've won had the pick'n'roll been better defended

[Arrowch4]

This was basically my take as well. And Manu can and will get better as the playoffs go on. He's clearly bothered by the broken nose. (His stubborn ass should just wear the stupid mask, goddamn.)

[Agloco]

Unfortunately for the Spurs it's a recipe for disaster no matter which big it is having to chase Frye or get switched on Hill. Love Dyess, but the Spurs situation doesn't really improve if Dyess is only one step away from being able to contest a 3 pointer by Frye as opposed to Bonner being two steps away. This is just a mismatch the Suns are going to be able to exploit until the Spurs can take control of the glass and shore up the perimeter D. As things stand right now the Suns are having success at playing small and still being able to control the boards and it's killing the Spurs. While Dyess is no doubt a better rebounder than Bonner, it doesn't help all that much if he's out on the perimeter.

Tell me Dice doesnt stand a better chance of coralling a loose ball or hitting an open jumper on the other end than our boy Matty B.

The strange thing is, I think this is where a guy like Ian might be of benefit. If nothing else, he could probably keep up with Frye and give him a narrower window to look through. Let me be clear though, Im not advocating playing Ian heavy minutes, just throw him out about 5-7 to see if things click or not.

[coyotes_geek]

Tell me Dice doesnt stand a better chance of coralling a loose ball or hitting an open jumper on the other end than our boy Matty B.

He does, but what does that have to do with chasing Frye around the 3 point line or getting stuck having to guard Hill on isolations?

[Agloco]

He does, but what does that have to do with chasing Frye around the 3 point line or getting stuck having to guard Hill on isolations?

I thought we were discussing rationales for keeping Bonner on the court over Dice. Those are factors in favor of Dice. The problem you point out above is the same for both.

Soooo....... I'm not understanding your rationale.

[coyotes_geek]

I thought we were discussing rationales for keeping Bonner on the court over Dice. Those are factors in favor of Dice. The problem you point out above is the same for both.

Soooo....... I'm not understanding your rationale.

Miscommunication on both ends I guess. I agree with you that Dice is the far superior player. If Bonner isn't hitting 3's then he's absolutely a detriment. I don't think you can just bury Bonner on the bench, but it doesn't take 15 minutes to see what you're going to get from him on a given night. Pop should tighten Bonner's leash. That being said, playing Dice instead of Bonner isn't going to solve our problems with Channing Frye.

[NameOfTheGame]

Miscommunication on both ends I guess. I agree with you that Dice is the far superior player. If Bonner isn't hitting 3's then he's absolutely a detriment. I don't think you can just bury Bonner on the bench, but it doesn't take 15 minutes to see what you're going to get from him on a given night. Pop should tighten Bonner's leash. That being said, playing Dice instead of Bonner isn't going to solve our problems with Channing Frye.

Apologies for the late bump/response.

I really don't understand Pop's stubbornness sometimes. I'm almost wishing for a slightly more rapid coming of Tim's retirement...if only to save Pop from his senility.

Dyess is twice the player that Bonner is. At least. And keep in mind that I'm speaking of regular-season Dyess.

Playoffs? Three times. At the very least.

Bonner just doesn't belong on the floor. He's purely a Sun Yue, poor man's Mark Madsen, rookie-year Darko...in other words...an irreplaceable and extremely valuable towel waver. And human victory cigar. Hey...a good cigar is one of the finest things in life....

[TJastal]

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Spurs seem incapable of defending the Suns pick-n-roll. Just once, I'd like to see the Spurs defense sit on guy (usually Amare) rolling to the bucket.

That would work perfectly if the spurs had a guy like Tyrus Thomas as Duncan's running mate, Thomas would make Nash's life miserable trying to get a shot off in the paint.

Half the time we have either Blair or Bonner playing with Timmy (or both on the court) and there is no weakside help whatsoever.

Heck, even Ratliff as old as he was could have helped bottle up Nash in the paint. As it is now, Nash is basically running a layup drill out there.

[TJastal]

Bonner just doesn't belong on the floor. He's purely a Sun Yue, poor man's Mark Madsen, rookie-year Darko...in other words...an irreplaceable and extremely valuable towel waver. And human victory cigar. Hey...a good cigar is one of the finest things in life....

:lmao :rollin

Thanks for that gut-ache I have now. :)

Of course Bonner will come through now at home with a barrage of 3 pointers in order to earn himself more choke time in games 4 and 5.

[NameOfTheGame]

:lmao :rollin

Thanks for that gut-ache I have now. :)

Of course Bonner will come through now at home with a barrage of 3 pointers in order to earn himself more choke time in games 4 and 5.

Gawwwwd...that's exactly what I'm afraid of...

[Dex]

1. Spurs are getting killed on the pick and roll.

2. Spurs are getting killed on the offensive boards.

3. Spurs are getting killed behind the three-point line.

4. Spurs' bench, outside of Tony Parker, is getting killed by Phoenix's bench.

Take your pick.