Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Suns - Game 3

[timvp]

Going into this series against the Suns, their explosiveness and depth appeared to be their two biggest assets. In Game 3, the Suns proved that to be true. Already up 2-0, the Suns battled back from an early deficit and then pounded the Spurs in money time.

The Spurs went up 39-21 with a Tony Parker layup with eight and a half minutes remaining in the first half. Unfortunately, that's when the wheels started to fall off. Parker missed four free throws in a row and the Spurs didn't make another field goal until the three minute mark of the quarter. By halftime, the Suns were within six points -- 50-44.

In the third quarter, the Spurs once again pushed their lead ... only to see the Suns fight back once again. Leading by as many as eight points in period, the Spurs witnessed the Suns catch fire from beyond the arc and make it a 72-71 game heading into the final stanza.

Spurs fans will have nightmares of the fourth quarter for a long time to come. Going against the Big 3 of the Spurs, Slovenian point guard Goran Dragic simply exploded -- scoring 23 points in the final 12 minutes. Add in timely points by Leandro Barbosa and the Spurs just didn't have a chance. San Antonio's offense sputtered and the defense looked clueless. The Suns starters didn't have to lift a finger as their bench demolished the Spurs and took a 3-0 lead in the series with a 110-96 victory.

-Tim Duncan did a lot of good in this game. He hit 5-of-9 shots from the field, grabbed 13 rebounds, blocked three shots and didn't have a turnover in 37 minutes of work. His defense was as good as could have been expected and he took advantage of his touches. That said, the fatal flaw of his outing was his free throw shooting. He was 5-for-12 from the line and his misses seemed to demoralize both himself and his team. After shooting 72.5% from the line in the regular season, he has hit less than half of his freebies in the postseason. I usually don't harp on missed free throws but his misses really seemed to hurt everyone's aggressiveness. Even with the misses at the line, it would have been a good idea to give Duncan more touches. He was producing well in all areas -- except for one.

-Manu Ginobili came to play and carried the team for a large stretch of the game. He finished with 27 points and five assists on 10-for-17 shooting from the field and 4-for-9 shooting on three-pointers. Ginobili had a few mistakes when rotating defensively but his three steals made up for his errors. On offense, I thought he could have been even more aggressive and he was a bit sloppy (five turnovers). All in all, however, Ginobili wasn't the problem. He played well enough for the Spurs to win.

-Starting for the first time since breaking his hand, Tony Parker disappointed. He was 5-for-17 from the field and 0-for-4 from the line. Parker's play really fell off after two hard falls to the ground in the second quarter. He missed four free throws in a row and then never got into a rhythm again. Defensively, he did good work against Nash but he was one of the players scorched by Dragic in the fourth. When switched onto bigger players, Parker did a good job fighting for post position. Overall, the Spurs didn't get the play they needed from Parker. His reinsertion into the starting lineup was failure.

-The Spurs have survived the passive version Richard Jefferson. Tonight, they couldn't survive the aggressive yet struggling version of Richard Jefferson. He was 1-for-9 from the field and finished with four points and six rebounds in 29 minutes. Once again, his inability to shoot from the outside killed San Antonio's offensive spacing. Mix in some hesitancy out of Jefferson on the offensive end and it was ugly to watch. Defensively, while his rebounding was good, Jefferson made a number of mistakes in transition and rotating.

-George Hill came off the bench -- and didn't respond well to the move. In 37 minutes, he was 1-for-7 from the floor. He did a good job of getting to the line (6-of-7) but was bad in every other aspect. He had one assist, no rebounds and was very bad on the defensive end. In fact, the Suns seem to be attacking Hill on the defensive end no matter who he is guarding. I don't know if Hill lost confidence after being sent to the bench or was rattled by a flagrant foul but there was something extremely wrong with his play tonight.

-I can't fault Antonio McDyess' effort. In 29 minutes, he had 12 points, ten rebounds, two assists and two blocks while shooting 6-for-11 from the field. McDyess came out early and his outside jumper got the Spurs off to a good start. I liked the defense he played and his rebounding allowed the Spurs to out-rebound the Suns 43-37. McDyess did miss a few open jumpers and made a few other bad decisions on passes but I can't be angry with the production the Spurs got out of him.

-This time, it wasn't Matt Bonner's fault. His shooting in the first half was a big reason why the Spurs built their 18-point lead. He finished with 11 points on 4-for-6 shooting from the field, including 3-of-4 from deep. Defensively, he moved his feet well and was decisive with rotations. The one glaring negative is he had only one rebound in 19 minutes of play. But when Bonner hits four shots in one game after hitting five shots in the previous eight playoff games, you can't get picky.

-In the first half, DeJuan Blair played very well. He was rebounding, scoring and just playing with smarts on both ends of the court. The second half was a different story. When switched off onto smaller players on the defensive end, Blair got lit up. He just couldn't handle what was asked of him; guarding small guards out on the perimeter isn't where Blair makes his living. On the night, Blair finished with six points, six rebounds and a blocked shot in 11 minutes.

-I'm still shaking my head over the gimmick defense Pop went with in this game. To defend Phoenix's countless pick-and-rolls, Pop decided the Spurs should switch on all picks. The results were disastrous. The strategy forced Duncan and Blair to spend way too much time defending point guards. Once those guards got into the paint, the Spurs were forced to collapse -- which resulted in the Suns going 15-for-26 on three-pointers. When the Suns weren't hitting open threes, they were beating the bigs to the rim for easy looks. It might have been a decent gimmick to give the Suns a different look for a few minutes ... but for an entire game? Very questionable decision and it blew up in Pop's face. And while I was a proponent of putting Parker back into the starting lineup, that decision also backfired. I thought Pop had coached very well in the playoffs up until this game. He tried to get tricky and now the Spurs are staring into the abyss that is a 3-0 impossibility.

[ducks]

tp is having x-rays on elbow
he was never right after the fall missing 0-4 free throws


spurs mentally caved in with the missed free throws
DUNCAN MENTALLY CAVED IN this loss is on HIM
his missing free throws is ALL MENTALLY
he makes the first few in a game he is great that night

[ducks]

tp is having x-rays on elbow
he was never right after the fall missing 0-4 free throws


spurs mentally caved in with the missed free throws
DUNCAN MENTALLY CAVED IN this loss is on HIM
his missing free throws is ALL MENTALLY
he makes the first few in a game he is great that night

[MarceloM!]

He need x-rays in his balls.

[ducks]

duncan jefferson hill had no balls tonight

[Riverwalkman]

I honestly don't understand why Pop didn't vary his defense strategy on pick&roll, I think he did very good job in 2008 against Suns and Hornets, he was using mutiple strategies to guard Chris Paul and Nash. But this time, I'd say Pop is not being Pop. I don't think Dragic and Nash are better than Paul and a younger Nash...

[ElNono]

I honestly don't understand why Pop didn't vary his defense strategy on pick&roll, I think he did very good job in 2008 against Suns and Hornets, he was using mutiple strategies to guard Chris Paul and Nash. But this time, I'd say Pop is not being Pop. I don't think Dragic and Nash are better than Paul and a younger Nash...

Pop could toss Bowen at Nash or Paul. Or even guys like Dragic that went on a hot streak. That 2008 Bowen, declining and all, played a whole better defense than what Hill has been playing this series.
I've personally moved on from losing Bruce, but that's your answer really...

[NewJerSpur]

A side note: I can understand Hill struggling in his first full action in the playoffs given the magnitude of each series and what was asked/expected of him given how he finished the regular season (he'll improve as time goes on), but what was RJ's excuse? He was missing easy conversions and FG opportunities left and right and shortarming gimme's at that. He's been there before but couldn't get up for this series and has been inconsistent at best, especially given that he was brought to SA primarily for his offense.

[kobeisgod899]

Spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck spurs suck and spurs such hahahahahaah your team and fans are such garbage viva los lakers woot

[ElNono]

Thanks for the writeup LJ. I thought we were going to switch our strategy and sag and stay on the shooters and allow Amarè to have a field day inside, but no. We dared them to beat us from outside and they delivered. They just really tear us apart tonight.

[timvp]

Parker, Jefferson and Hill combine to go 7-for-33. That can't be understated as a reason why the Spurs lost. But the gimmick defense and missed free throws were right up there.

This was the type of game I've been worrying about from the Suns. I knew they were going to win at least one game based on their deadly three-point shooting ... but I was hoping those wins would be at home. To get that type of shooting on the road is really impressive.

[ploto]

The Spurs starters were still playing while the Suns starters except for Hill (and later Nash) were lounging. Who would expect to see a line up with Tim, Tony, and Manu looking so helpless against Dragic, Barbosa, Dudley, and Frye! I give Gentry credit. The bench was not good in the first half, but he gave them another chance in the late third and fourth quarter and they rose to the occasion.

To Hill's defense- I think in some ways he has been set up for failure by how Pop has used him. How does he expect Hill to cover Richardson?

The Suns have scored 110 or more in all three games!!

[NewJerSpur]

Thanks for the writeup LJ. I thought we were going to switch our strategy and sag and stay on the shooters and allow Amarè to have a field day inside, but no. We dared them to beat us from outside and they delivered. They just really tear us apart tonight.

:tu

[EricB]

should hill guard grant hill instead? Or maybe Steve Nash!! Oh yeah that worked like a dream?!!!
:lol stick to rooting for white guys and hating black people ploto.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs are just working with limited tools trying to contain a much deeper team. Legs run out and when a team is running 10 deep you can make more shots for a longer period of time because you're not nearly as fatigued. And forget about just one game, what about by this point in the season? How many more minutes have some of the Spurs played compared to some of the Suns?

The Suns are simply a much better team right now. This is truly a role reversal between what the teams were in years past.

[Riverwalkman]

I knew they were going to win at least one game based on their deadly three-point shooting ... but I was hoping those wins would be at home. To get that type of shooting on the road is really impressive.

So where was that confidence from? Spurs' poor defense?:wakeup

I reckon Suns was playing like practice, because in the case, the shooting percentage will be at a high level regardless of whether playing on road or at home.

[jason1301]

Anyone remembers the time where the Spurs were a mentally tough team that never really beats themselves?

[J_Paco]

I'm still shaking my head over the gimmick defense Pop went with in this game. To defend Phoenix's countless pick-and-rolls, Pop decided the Spurs should switch on all picks. The results were disastrous. The strategy forced Duncan and Blair to spend way too much time defending point guards. Once those guards got into the paint, the Spurs were forced to collapse -- which resulted in the Suns going 15-for-26 on three-pointers. When the Suns weren't hitting open threes, they were beating the bigs to the rim for easy looks. It might have been a decent gimmick to give the Suns a different look for a few minutes ... but for an entire game? Very questionable decision and it blew up in Pop's face. And while I was a proponent of putting Parker back into the starting lineup, that decision also backfired. I thought Pop had coached very well in the playoffs up until this game. He tried to get tricky and now the Spurs are staring into the abyss that is a 3-0 impossibility.

Who would have thought that switching on every pick-n-roll would backfire so badly? Since it worked so well during the fourth quarter of the previous two games......

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes (This is directed at Pop's coaching, not your astute commenting, Timvp.)

Pop went with a stupid gameplan and it cost them the game. Why didn't he tell Parker and Hill to fight through some of those screens? Pop is a great head coach, but his strategies against this current Phoenix team have sucked. Oh, and Amar'e hasn't had one great game, yet his team is destroying our team.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Anyone remembers the time where the Spurs were a mentally tough team that never really beats themselves?

yes.. and clearly not the outfit I saw out there today...

and this doens't mean im jumping off the bandwagon by any means

[Blackjack]

timvp, what are your thoughts on the starting lineup?

I don't want to get into a complete dissertation of my thoughts on it (again) but tonight looked awfully similar to what we saw in the regular season with this group: a flash of brilliance and a whole bunch of WTF.

Tony's fall could've very well been the reason for the extreme falloff but, then again, it looked awfully familiar.

Injury, or is it just a square peg in a round hole of a lineup (for whatever reason)?

[The Truth #6]

The comparison of the Suns to the 2003 Spurs was a good one. Dragic tonight was like Jackson/Kerr exploding out of nowhere.

I've never seen Tim vanish like this before. This is like watching a relative slip and break their hip...or something. We're not as young as we used to be.

Great win by the Suns. As sad as it is to see the Spurs fall, I respect the Suns unlike the Mavs or the Lakers.

[roycrikside]

tp is having x-rays on elbow
he was never right after the fall missing 0-4 free throws


spurs mentally caved in with the missed free throws
DUNCAN MENTALLY CAVED IN this loss is on HIM
his missing free throws is ALL MENTALLY
he makes the first few in a game he is great that night

That's classic. The CoT was all over Manu's ass after Game 2 saying a broken nose is no excuse for poor play (in a game Ginobili had 11 assists mind you) and now they make excuses for Tony because he fell. What a bunch of phonies.

Just deal with it. Your boy played like ASS.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan missing free throws is troubling, but I think he had like 1 or 2 post-ups for the entire 2nd half..ridiculous..

[SpurOutofTownFan]

on a separate note...

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4006/fallingcat.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2599/spursv.jpg

[rayray2k8]

Our guards, with the exception of Manu played like shit.
Hill and Parker just couldn't get it done..

Suns won that game.
As for game 4. I just don't care anymore.
But hey, if the suns win I will congratulate them.... The prize?
You get the Lakers!! Good luck with that. :lol

[crc21209]

One of the most...I guess disheartening (is the word) losses I have ever witnessed by the Spurs. Everything that could go wrong in that 4th qtr...did go wrong.

[duhoh]

moore's law in effect

[HankChinaski]

Phoenix came in and played a smart game. They didn't have to change much defensively and their offensive strategy was pretty solid I don't see them having to change anything if it still works. We lack the overall depth to press their shooters for 48 minutes straight. Hence while I've been watching the games I've been okay with the occasionally lapse in the swarming defense we would have. But to expect a solid lock down for 48 minutes I was pretty realistic about that.

The thing I saw more than anything else was that phoenix REALLY wants to win these games more than we do. It's disappointing but when a team's second unit is torching your first unit the energy and passion to win over against someone is obvious. Spurs just looked like they didn't want it enough....well anyone who's name isn't Ginoboli.

The pick n roll strategy was awful and when Park, Hill, Jefferson put up those kind of numbers on offense you really are putting too much on Ginoboli and Duncan to score and carry this team to a W.

Free throw shooting which was the worst i've seen in some time from this spurs team really could have hurt this Suns team this entire series and that's just another mental sign of this team and where its at, at this moment. As fans we know on paper how deep this team truly is and what they can accomplish when their heads are all in the same place. I'm just not seeing it right now.

I'm unsure what the Spurs can do to pull this around for 4 straight wins. Coach Mr. Garrison is coaching hella'good against Pop....m'kay.

These haven't been blow out losses they are just each individual disappointing losses because we could easily be 3-0 in this series.

[peskypesky]

One of the most...I guess disheartening (is the word) losses I have ever witnessed by the Spurs. Everything that could go wrong in that 4th qtr...did go wrong.

i knew the Spurs would lose at the end of the second half. it was obvious to me that the tide was turning. i told my friends to prepare for a loss.

[Man In Black]

moore's law in effect

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean moore's law.

Moore's law is a principle in which Chip Technology(CPUs) Doubles every 2 years.

You're talking about Murphy's Law. Everything that can go wrong, goes wrong.

[Obstructed_View]

These haven't been blow out losses they are just each individual disappointing losses because we could easily be 3-0 in this series.

The Spurs have gotten squashed by the Suns during "winning time" in this series, not only consistently, but pretty convincingly as well. Any argument after game 1 that the Spurs just needed to correct a few things went out the window after game 2 and game 3. Tony Parker did exactly what many of us said he'd do, the Suns weathered the storm and just imposed their will. At some point, you have to recognize that the Spurs are being beaten by a better team.

[Bruno]

I'm not that upset about Spurs losing this series. Had Spurs won it, they would have been destroyed by Lakers in the WCF. Finally beating Mavs was great, losing in WCSF instead of WCF doesn't really matter.

Spurs need now to end their season decently. Being swept on your home floor would suck so they had to win game 4.

[xapatan2]

the failure was to not reinsert Parker in the lineup at the very very first game..

Xap'

[Trimble87]

The "switch everything" defense was mind boggling. Its one thing to switch when Nash and Amare are killing us with pick and rolls. But as soon as the suns understood what we were doing Frye would set a lazy pick 3 feet behind the 3 point line and suddenly Barbosa/Nash/Dragic would have Duncan, Blair or Dice on them. We were just giving away possessions. WTF?!

[polandprzem]

the failure was to not reinsert Parker in the lineup at the very very first game..

Xap'

WTF- now that was the problem?

So many fans needs to eat a crow
parker was not effective. less effective as a starter then bench player.

spurs can't play 3 guys in every game having the rest a non-factor

p&r's were a killer this series - I almost knew it would be ours biggest advantage.
Nope

What a demoralizing series.


We had the best strategy against pick and rolls in the first game. Now Pop is trying something that do not suit spurs much.

[milkyway21]

In the last 3 games we lost in the 4th Q. in game 2 we were up by 2 then started to turn the ball while the Suns started their run...

It's disheartening because I truly believe (still) that the Spurs are better than the Suns. But the players didn't play to their FULL potential. If only Bonner starts hitting 3s andhey where are those dunks that JR used to do in the finals of 2002 & 2003? whoa!

[gm5k]

our "big 3" lost the game to Dragic :lol what else is there to say?...




It's disheartening because I truly believe (still) that the Spurs are better than the Suns.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. we're down 0-3. no way we're a better team! what ever happened to a best of 7 showing who was the better team...

[milkyway21]

Game 4 Sunday, Monday here, Good luck Spurs, It's election day here. hope you win next time.
then win again in Phoenix. :lol

[milkyway21]

our "big 3" lost the game to Dragic :lol what else is there to say?...



Sorry but I strongly disagree. we're down 0-3. no way we're a better team! what ever happened to a best of 7 showing who was the better team...

did Pop ever tried to watch Dragic's play this yr at all? I wonder.:depressed

[gm5k]

did Pop ever tried to watch Dragic's play this yr at all? I wonder.:depressed

in all seriousness, not even the biggest of Dragic supporters/homers could have predicted anything CLOSE to that 4th quarter performance...

another thought: with the ridiculous performance of certain Suns during this series, it certainly seems like a "meant to be" sort of thing for them. and I'm not a superstitious person :lol I will, however, add that by "meant to be" I mean Phoenix getting owned by LA while Nash and Stoudemire watch their last worthwhile year sadly fade into nothingness :toast

I'm sure these last 3 games have been immeasurably enjoyable for most die hard Suns fans...

[polandprzem]

that's the playoffs

Somebody from the bench needs to step up to win the game for their team.

[WalterBenitez]

Nice comments, I think we win as a team, we lost as a team ... If I had to point out a reason why we are going fishing is because a superior team defeated us ... yeap a TEAM > team.

Secondly, our main star sucks at FT yeah, Jefferson trends to be soft oh yeah, TP back to initial 5 didn't work sure ... but come on ... their bech is really fantastic and they have the desire to win.

[ManuTastic]

Too harsh on Parker. I thought his aggressiveness early on was key in building the lead. He pushed it hard. Then when he hurt his shoulder, that's when he had to let up, and the whole team stopped pushing as hard. I don't blame Tony. He played well until the injury.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

tp is having x-rays on elbow
he was never right after the fall missing 0-4 free throws


spurs mentally caved in with the missed free throws
DUNCAN MENTALLY CAVED IN this loss is on HIM
his missing free throws is ALL MENTALLY
he makes the first few in a game he is great that night

Your boy Tony sucked dick. Quit trying to blame this on Duncan. Tony got clowned by Dragic in the fourth. Go suck an egg, ducks.

[Pero]

in all seriousness, not even the biggest of Dragic supporters/homers could have predicted anything CLOSE to that 4th quarter performance...

True, while I was expecting him to have a good game (it was about time, he hasn't shown that much in playoffs yet, especially against the Spurs), I didn't imagine anything like this. But I think there are only three players left in the playoffs that you could expect this kind of game from anyway. (Manu, Kobe, LeBron)

[Pero]

did Pop ever tried to watch Dragic's play this yr at all? I wonder.:depressed

He must've, because like I said several times now, he praised his development after game 1. And that was a game Dragic completely sucked, almost gave the game to the Spurs. He'll probably be invisible again on Sunday though. :lol

[vander]

switching off the picks was a terrible strategy, and continuing to leave the 3 point shooters open :bang:bang:bang

but even then, all the way down the roster, the Suns were just better. they are better shooters, better defenders, better athletes, and they play more focused and disciplined basketball.

even when we were building that 18 point lead, you could see that the Suns were playing better basketball, getting the shots they wanted much more easily than the Spurs ever could.

[NFGIII]

Duncan missing free throws is troubling, but I think he had like 1 or 2 post-ups for the entire 2nd half..ridiculous..

Agreed. As pionted out below by Timvp TD was 5 - 9 from the field and yet he wasn't being given the ball in the 2nd half. Regardless of his FT shooting he needed to get more touches. TD not getting the ball was a huge mistake.




-Tim Duncan did a lot of good in this game. He hit 5-of-9 shots from the field, grabbed 13 rebounds, blocked three shots and didn't have a turnover in 37 minutes of work. His defense was as good as could have been expected and he took advantage of his touches. That said, the fatal flaw of his outing was his free throw shooting. He was 5-for-12 from the line and his misses seemed to demoralize both himself and his team. After shooting 72.5% from the line in the regular season, he has hit less than half of his freebies in the postseason. I usually don't harp on missed free throws but his misses really seemed to hurt everyone's aggressiveness. Even with the misses at the line, it would have been a good idea to give Duncan more touches. He was producing well in all areas -- except for one.

That's really a pretty bad stat. Less than half? But I've watched him over the years and he has a flat shot. Frankly it's a hard line drive rather than a soft arcing one which if not on doesn't have that much of a chance to go in. The mechanics just look so ugly to me and he hasn't changed that much over the years. It has worked from the field but not very well from the charity stripe.

Sad since when his career is over that one stat will stick out just like it will for Shaq. Imagine if he had worked on it and been a more consistent FT shooter? It boggles the mind that a HOF can shoot FTs that poorly, Damn they are called FREE THROWS aren't they?

Oh well this is something that is part of TD's baggage so in some respects this shouldn't be unexpected.

[slayermin]

Everything that I saw last night tells me this series is over. But why do I still have hope? I'll still be watching tomorrow.

[Capt Bringdown]

In the last 3 games we lost in the 4th Q.

Didn't we do this against the Lakers one year? What year was that?

[Fabbs]

-Tim Duncan did a lot of good in this game. He hit 5-of-9 shots from the field, grabbed 13 rebounds, blocked three shots and didn't have a turnover in 37 minutes of work. His defense was as good as could have been expected and he took advantage of his touches. That said, the fatal flaw of his outing was his free throw shooting. He was 5-for-12 from the line and his misses seemed to demoralize both himself and his team. After shooting 72.5% from the line in the regular season, he has hit less than half of his freebies in the postseason. I usually don't harp on missed free throws but his misses really seemed to hurt everyone's aggressiveness. Even with the misses at the line, it would have been a good idea to give Duncan more touches. He was producing well in all areas -- except for one.


-In the first half, DeJuan Blair played very well. He was rebounding, scoring and just playing with smarts on both ends of the court. The second half was a different story. When switched off onto smaller players on the defensive end, Blair got lit up. He just couldn't handle what was asked of him; guarding small guards out on the perimeter isn't where Blair makes his living. On the night, Blair finished with six points, six rebounds and a blocked shot in 11 minutes.

-I'm still shaking my head over the gimmick defense Pop went with in this game. To defend Phoenix's countless pick-and-rolls, Pop decided the Spurs should switch on all picks. The results were disastrous. The strategy forced Duncan and Blair to spend way too much time defending point guards. Once those guards got into the paint, the Spurs were forced to collapse -- which resulted in the Suns going 15-for-26 on three-pointers. When the Suns weren't hitting open threes, they were beating the bigs to the rim for easy looks. It might have been a decent gimmick to give the Suns a different look for a few minutes ... but for an entire game? Very questionable decision and it blew up in Pop's face. And while I was a proponent of putting Parker back into the starting lineup, that decision also backfired. I thought Pop had coached very well in the playoffs up until this game. He tried to get tricky and now the Spurs are staring into the abyss that is a 3-0 impossibility.
So if Duncan "did a lot of good in this game" and Blair matched, actually exceeded Tims per minute numbers, yet both were forced "to spend way too much time defending point guards" by Lord Poppycocks fail strategy, why doesn't Blair get just as good a report as Duncan?

[Fabbs]

^^ When Blair was on the floor and the energy was flowing, Bonner was actually hot from treyland and we went up by 16 points at 37-21 or so, why did Lord Numb Nutts take Blair and Bonner out and insert butt draggy Duncan?
:depressed

Clown Pop has no feel for substitution patterns, total energy buzzkill.

[michaelwcho]

The Spurs have gotten squashed by the Suns during "winning time" in this series, not only consistently, but pretty convincingly as well. Any argument after game 1 that the Spurs just needed to correct a few things went out the window after game 2 and game 3. Tony Parker did exactly what many of us said he'd do, the Suns weathered the storm and just imposed their will. At some point, you have to recognize that the Spurs are being beaten by a better team.

A better team that won less games than the team we just ousted.

I think it's a little more complicated than they're just a "better team".

[Goran Dragic]

Your boy Tony sucked dick. Quit trying to blame this on Duncan. Tony got clowned by Dragic in the fourth. Go suck an egg, ducks.


:lmao bukkake on Ducks for being stupid

[ducks]

Your boy Tony sucked dick. Quit trying to blame this on Duncan. Tony got clowned by Dragic in the fourth. Go suck an egg, ducks.

15 points compared to 29 in game one
DUNCAN SUCKED DONKEY BALLS

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The Spurs haven't lost to a team that went on to win the Championship since 2002.

[Goran Dragic]

15 points compared to 29 in game one
DUNCAN SUCKED DONKEY BALLS


:lmao Tony Parker shot 5-17 and then just stood there like a bitch while Goran Dragic took whatever was in his balls and sprayed it all over the Spurs in the 4th quarter, how the fuck can you blame that game on Duncan?

[Agloco]

:lmao Tony Parker shot 5-17 and then just stood there like a bitch while Goran Dragic took whatever was in his balls and sprayed it all over the Spurs in the 4th quarter, how the fuck can you blame that game on Duncan?

+1

Dragic violated us in the fourth quarter. Pretty much bent us over and had his way. That wasn't on Timmy.

[ducks]

:lmao Tony Parker shot 5-17 and then just stood there like a bitch while Goran Dragic took whatever was in his balls and sprayed it all over the Spurs in the 4th quarter, how the fuck can you blame that game on Duncan?

everything was short because he got undercut
he shoud not even been playing

and dragic scored on everyone in the forth not just on tp

[ducks]

+1

Dragic violated us in the fourth quarter. Pretty much bent us over and had his way. That wasn't on Timmy.

oh he scored on timmy to watch the forth again

[Goran Dragic]

Popovich had to experiment with switching on every screen because Parker is too much of a pussy to fight through screens, so as a result Duncan looks bad because Parker leaves him on an island to guard quicker players.

[wildbill2u]

Parker, Jefferson and Hill combine to go 7-for-33. That can't be understated as a reason why the Spurs lost. But the gimmick defense and missed free throws were right up there.

This was the type of game I've been worrying about from the Suns. I knew they were going to win at least one game based on their deadly three-point shooting ... but I was hoping those wins would be at home. To get that type of shooting on the road is really impressive.


When your defensive rotations leave their 3 pt. shooters wide open with no one within 15 feet of them, you either have a bad defensive plan or your personnel cannot execute it.

Since this is the third game that Channing Frye lit us up, it's clear that we have no defense that can stop them.

Play the kids (Maninmi, Hairston, Blair, Temple, Jerrels Gee) in the next game and lets go work on what we need to do for the next season.

[MmP]

I mean, the momentum for the suns started when Blair got Barbosa changing picks, I mean that's just plain stupid. This one is on Pop first and the players who ONCE AGAIN were outhustled by the entire Suns team. They wanted to win it more than most of us so it's kinda fair. Why in hell did the think we eventually would win?

[MmP]

Congrats to Dragic, he's a hell of a player. Reminds me of Manu's rookie season.

[Agloco]

The Spurs have gotten squashed by the Suns during "winning time" in this series, not only consistently, but pretty convincingly as well. Any argument after game 1 that the Spurs just needed to correct a few things went out the window after game 2 and game 3. Tony Parker did exactly what many of us said he'd do, the Suns weathered the storm and just imposed their will. At some point, you have to recognize that the Spurs are being beaten by a better team.

This. When it matters (4th quarter), the Suns are making shots and getting to loose balls. I remember reading somewhere that they scored on 10 straight possessions....... game, set, match.

I'd be interested in seeing their shooting percentages from the second half of all three games (both 2's and 3's). I'm betting it's substantially north of 50%. Outrageous.

Congrats to them. They're playing better during money ball time, something that legitimate championship contending teams tend to do.

[Agloco]

oh he scored on timmy to watch the forth again


Popovich had to experiment with switching on every screen because Parker is too much of a pussy to fight through screens, so as a result Duncan looks bad because Parker leaves him on an island to guard quicker players.

[Obstructed_View]

A better team that won less games than the team we just ousted.

I think it's a little more complicated than they're just a "better team".

Correction: A better team that won less 'game'.

Seriously, what series have you been watching? Get your nose out of the standings, because it couldn't be any simpler. There are years where the Spurs lost because they did something wrong, but they're just getting whipped at this point by a better deeper team playing better all around ball.

The Suns have been as good or better than ANYONE IN THE LEAGUE since the all-star break. Conversely, the Mavericks had a very good record in close games, which was a statistical anomaly that gave them a better record by one game than the Suns. Many of us knew the Mavs were probably the fifth or sixth best team in the west based on their point differential, and the outcome of Spurs/Mavs confirmed that.

The Suns have two excellent point guards, a surprising shutdown defender, a dominant post player, clutch three point shooting, excellent energy guys coming off the bench, and a smart coach that keeps everyone level. They're also doing it with one of their best bigs out with an injury.

As I've said before, the team that looks more like the Spurs did on their title runs is not wearing silver and black.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This suns team is really something else.

They don't even have to get anywhere near the 40 point Amare performances in the playoffs to control a ball game.

They have several players who seem to be shooting at an incredibly high level. They're deep, any of their bench players can go off for 20. And to top it off they still score mad points with ease.

It's like all the positive aspects of the previous Suns playoff teams with a huge layer of armor covering areas where there used to be weaknesses or chinks.

They're really good. And when they eliminate us I will be cheering for them in the next round. Which is actually a good feeling. Something I have not felt in a really really long time.

[NFGIII]

Didn't we do this against the Lakers one year? What year was that?


2002

Had the lead in 4 of the 5 games against them in the 4th Q. I believe we would have won that series if Drob hadn't hurt his back against the Pistons in the last week of the season. That really derailed the Spurs in the PO. We didn't have the interior rebounding and D due to his bad back.



When your defensive rotations leave their 3 pt. shooters wide open with no one within 15 feet of them, you either have a bad defensive plan or your personnel cannot execute it.

Since this is the third game that Channing Frye lit us up, it's clear that we have no defense that can stop them.

Play the kids (Maninmi, Hairston, Blair, Temple, Jerrels Gee) in the next game and lets go work on what we need to do for the next season.

Agreed. If your plan is bad or you don't have the type of players neccessary to implement it then it needs to be changed.

As for playing the kids I understand your feelings and would like to see them play too but I don't want to get swept by the Suns. A matter of pride for one but can you imagine the crap that will be posted here if that happens? We wont hear the end of it. :nope

Anyway Jerrels and Gee aren't eligible to play IIRC. And Ian will foul out in the first quarter. :D

[vander]

obviously the list is long what Nash can do that TP can not

but what can TP do that Dragic can not?

:stirpot:



seriously, you're at the park, picking teams, do you take any of the Spurs big three before any of the Suns' big three? Obviously TP is the last guy selected, and Nash the first, but do you even take a single Spur before all the Suns are gone?

[spurs10]

We need to win game 4. If we could hold on to our lead, by making our freethrows, it's possible we get a little momentum. Losing twice at home will be very bad for business.

[wildbill2u]

2002

Had the lead in 4 of the 5 games against them in the 4th Q. I believe we would have won that series if Drob hadn't hurt his back against the Pistons in the last week of the season. That really derailed the Spurs in the PO. We didn't have the interior rebounding and D due to his bad back.




Agreed. If your plan is bad or you don't have the type of players neccessary to implement it then it needs to be changed.

As for playing the kids I understand your feelings and would like to see them play too but I don't want to get swept by the Suns. A matter of pride for one but can you imagine the crap that will be posted here if that happens? We wont hear the end of it. :nope

Anyway Jerrels and Gee aren't eligible to play IIRC. And Ian will foul out in the first quarter. :D

If a sweep is likely--and it is--I'd rather see some enthusatic kids play a lot minutes and lose than watch some dispirtited veterans lose their dignity.

There is a chance we could win the next one on pride alone, I suppose. And there is the argument that heroes should go home on their shields.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gentry played his bench most of the game.

That way, if we win, they take us back to Phoenix and humiliate us there. Kinda like the Romans took prisoners back to Rome and had them march in the victor's triumphal parade before execution.

The regular season proved to be a preview of the playoffs. This team is Too inconsistent to play all the way through to the championship. It became a question of when we'd lose, not whether we were good enough to win it all. Most thought we'd never get out of the first round against the Mavs.

I'm not bitching. We can't win every championship. Other teams are getting better. The brains in the FO and Pop will go back to the drawing board and see what can be done this summer to improve.

[J_Paco]

Hey, one bright spot is that Amar'e, Dirk and Boozer could all be changing addresses. So, that would really change the landscape of the conference next season. It sucks to be looking ahead, but there is little else to look forward to.

[michaelwcho]

Correction: A better team that won less 'game'.

The Suns have two excellent point guards, a surprising shutdown defender, a dominant post player, clutch three point shooting, excellent energy guys coming off the bench, and a smart coach that keeps everyone level. They're also doing it with one of their best bigs out with an injury.

As I've said before, the team that looks more like the Spurs did on their title runs is not wearing silver and black.

I don't disagree with your analysis here, but I wonder how much of this is just timing? If the Suns are really this good, they should wipe the floor with the Lakers, too. They should have swept a hobbled Portland team. If the Spurs were really this bad, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I think we're worn down because of the injuries and they're playing out of their minds, which is not exactly the same thing as them being a simply better team. In years past, we could play better in the playoffs because we would add minutes to the big three and increase our efficiency thereby. Useless points to bring up, perhaps, but maybe it's just the fan in me.

That being said, I do like the grit of this Suns team, and if (when?) they knock us off, the 2nd best outcome of the playoffs would be for them to send Kobe packing.

[HarlemHeat37]

obviously the list is long what Nash can do that TP can not

but what can TP do that Dragic can not?

:stirpot:



seriously, you're at the park, picking teams, do you take any of the Spurs big three before any of the Suns' big three? Obviously TP is the last guy selected, and Nash the first, but do you even take a single Spur before all the Suns are gone?

Nash(considering the circumstances)
Duncan
Stoudemire
Ginobili
Parker
Richardson

Not really much of an argument otherwise IMO..

[gameFACE]

Maybe the Spurs didn't respect the Suns going into this. But the Suns have outplayed the Spurs every way imaginable. Defense, pick 'n roll, 3 ball. They are quicker to rotate defensively and to go after loose balls. The moral of the story is - the Suns are better. They want it more and like the Spurs with the Mavs in round 1, they are not about to let the Spurs eliminate them again.

[vander]

Nash(considering the circumstances)
Duncan
Stoudemire
Ginobili
Parker
Richardson

Not really much of an argument otherwise IMO..

Richardson 6th? :lol

He was probably more important than Stoudemire, he hit every open shot he was given, created his own shot when necessary, and in fact, if given the opportunity, he could have probably driven the lane with more success than TP...

and don't forget, TD's defense was absolutely horrible, TD can't guard anybody or even play good help D anymore, this is basketball, athleticism and energy and hustle count for 95%, and TD fails at all 3.

[HarlemHeat37]

Richardson 6th? :lol

He was probably more important than Stoudemire, he hit every open shot he was given, created his own shot when necessary, and in fact, if given the opportunity, he could have probably driven the lane with more success than TP...

and don't forget, TD's defense was absolutely horrible, TD can't guard anybody or even play good help D anymore, this is basketball, athleticism and energy and hustle count for 95%, and TD fails at all 3.

You aren't asking about the series though..you're asking about which players are the best in general and asking about the order in which they would be picked in as overall players..

If you're asking about which players had the best series, then obviously it's different, but then you're getting into an entirely different argument TBH..


Duncan's interior defense was clearly very good in this series..he averaged 2.6 BPG and he clearly limited Stoudemire compared to what we usually expect from Amare, and considering Amare was playing some amazing basketball coming into the playoffs..

Duncan's p&r D is no longer good due to lost mobility, everybody acknowledges that..the other criticisms about his D doesn't make any sense though..there isn't a C in the NBA, or even a PF, that could guard a PG outside, it's obviously a mismatch(especially when you consider it's Nash), and that's on Pop more than anything for his switching defense..

This is also due to the fact that the Spurs don't have any mobile big men to guard outside, which obviously should have been a vital need, since Duncan has been losing his mobility for a while now..

Duncan had a good year defensively according to the stats, and the Spurs' defense was 5 points worse when he was off the floor, the highest of any player on the team IIRC..

[vander]

You aren't asking about the series though..you're asking about which players are the best in general and asking about the order in which they would be picked in as overall players..

If you're asking about which players had the best series, then obviously it's different..


Duncan's interior defense was clearly very good in this series..he averaged 2.6 BPG and he clearly limited Stoudemire compared to what we usually expect from Amare, and considering Amare was playing some amazing basketball coming into the playoffs..

Duncan's p&r D is no longer good due to lost mobility, everybody acknowledges that..the other criticisms about his D doesn't make any sense though..there isn't a C in the NBA, or even a PF, that could guard a PG outside, it's obviously a mismatch(especially when you consider it's Nash), and that's on Pop more than anything for his switching defense..

Duncan had a very good year defensively according to the stats, and the Spurs' defense was 5 points worse when he was off the floor, the highest of any player on the team..

from my recollection, TD was rarely the guy guarding Stoudemire when Stoudemire took it to the hoop and missed, (or even made it)
TD usually got the easier defensive assignment, and even then failed, Frye made shot(s) over a lackadaisical closeout by TD in every game, and guards easily took TD to school every time he switched onto them, or when he came over as help D. sure TD got some blocks here and there, but that was when his defensive presence became a little too underestimated :lol when guards thought that he was of absolutely no consequence...

TD rarely turned away anyone in the paint, while our guards were consistently turned away by any and all of the Sun's Bigs

[BackHome]

To be honest we just ran out of steam..........we don't have a bench or should I say that our bench sucked the last three games. Also the biggest point was that RJ didn't show up in the series he was our X-Factor who didn't work for us against the Suns.

I agree with the big man I have been bitching for us to get someone anyone taller then 6'10 other then IAN!

Timmy has played decent defense but it takes more then one player to win a series.

[HarlemHeat37]

from my recollection, TD was rarely the guy guarding Stoudemire when Stoudemire took it to the hoop and missed, (or even made it)
TD usually got the easier defensive assignment, and even then failed, Frye made shot(s) over a lackadaisical closeout by TD in every game, and guards easily took TD to school every time he switched onto them, or when he came over as help D. sure TD got some blocks here and there, but that was when his defensive presence became a little too underestimated :lol when guards thought that he was of absolutely no consequence...

TD rarely turned away anyone in the paint, while our guards were consistently turned away by any and all of the Sun's Bigs

-Duncan guarded Stoudemire more than any other big throughout the series..

-Obviously Duncan can't guard stretch bigs, which is why most people have said the Spurs need a mobile big man next to him..no-brainer, Duncan is obviously more of a defensive C nowadays..he gets exploited on the perimeter for obvious reasons..

-A guard always has the advantage over a big man on the perimeter in a 1 on 1 situation..this applies to the majority of big men in the NBA, not just Duncan..

-Duncan is averaging 2.6 blocks in this series and has clearly made a difference defensively, I don't know how you can say otherwise..you don't really have an argument here..saying Duncan only blocked shots because they underestimated him is a huge reach..

-The Suns bigs aren't doing much at all to stop the Spurs' perimeter players, they haven't been much of a factor defensively..the Suns are trapping and putting pressure on our p&r players out on the perimeter, as Dudley himself said..their perimeter defenders have done a very good job in this series, particularly Grant Hill, Dudley and Dragic..

They can also focus a lot more on stopping these aspects in particular because the Spurs don't have any 3-point shooting..they've been forcing guys like Jefferson to make outside jump shots, and it isn't working..the spacing for the Spurs is horrible, which has clearly hurt and put a lot of pressure on the big 3..

[Obstructed_View]

I don't disagree with your analysis here, but I wonder how much of this is just timing? If the Suns are really this good, they should wipe the floor with the Lakers, too. They should have swept a hobbled Portland team. If the Spurs were really this bad, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I think we're worn down because of the injuries and they're playing out of their minds, which is not exactly the same thing as them being a simply better team. In years past, we could play better in the playoffs because we would add minutes to the big three and increase our efficiency thereby. Useless points to bring up, perhaps, but maybe it's just the fan in me.

That being said, I do like the grit of this Suns team, and if (when?) they knock us off, the 2nd best outcome of the playoffs would be for them to send Kobe packing.

Well, it's perfectly reasonable to point to the moment where Parker was injured as the turning point of the game as well. If the Spurs don't lose his aggressiveness, it's conceivable that no amount of heroics is going to bring the Suns back, and a 2-1 series is drastically different than a 3-0 series.

Perhaps timing is all that makes the Suns the better team for the moment, but the fact remains that at the moment the Suns are the better team. The difference between the two teams is not gigantic, but it doesn't have to be when one team is hustling for the 50/50 balls, has everyone stepping up when they need to and answering every challenge with one of their own.

[duhoh]

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean moore's law.

Moore's law is a principle in which Chip Technology(CPUs) Doubles every 2 years.

You're talking about Murphy's Law. Everything that can go wrong, goes wrong.

whoops ya got me. fricken network security class :lol

[Pauleta14]

I'm not that upset about Spurs losing this series. Had Spurs won it, they would have been destroyed by Lakers in the WCF. Finally beating Mavs was great, losing in WCSF instead of WCF doesn't really matter.

Spurs need now to end their season decently. Being swept on your home floor would suck so they had to win game 4.


We must admit that we don't have a championship caliber team this year , for many reasons (RJ fail, injuries....)

We beat the suns in so many ways, so many times, that I call deal with it...

The Mavs series was a MUST WIN and that's almost "enough" for me this year! :lol

If we can dump RJ this summer, we have a shot next year with Manu and Tony resting this summer...

[lefty]

To defend Phoenix's countless pick-and-rolls, Pop decided the Spurs should switch on all picks. The results were disastrous. The strategy forced Duncan and Blair to spend way too much time defending point guards. Once those guards got into the paint, the Spurs were forced to collapse -- which resulted in the Suns going 15-for-26 on three-pointers.


Great point

I remeber in the past that Spurs would rarely switch on the pick and roll, forcing Nash to throw unbalanced shots, or collapsing on Amare as soon as he received a pass from Nash - forcing a turnover.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am still very confused as to why Pop thought switching would work.

Its a very shady coaching call.

[Manu-of-steel]

Phx has a very good bench, that could be the reason why in the 4th quarter, the starters are still fresh and ready to grind. Amundson and Dudley are hustling their butt's off. And Dudley is also a decent defender and a deadly shooter. You add Dragic's soaring confidence, the suns are playing at a very high level. I just wish RJ and Hill show up for us, we can give a good fight.

[Slippy]

TD , Dice, Bonner and even Blair's biggest problem when guarding out on the perimter on a PnR switch is they don't recover as well as they used to or can't at all if they get driven on. As a result, they allow for a lot more room when closing out. In the case of the suns series, too much room as in just shoot over me please. Being worn out, getting old or physical limitations does this to you . Pop obviously doesn't want to accept this with his un-wavering faith in allowing Spurs bigs to switch out on the perimeter. That's why when i saw posts suggesting Ian getting playing time . I actually didn't mind this because as a big he's given us glimpses of that ability to recover quickly enough once getting beat. Probably too late to happen but who knows with what Pop's thinking going into game 4.

[ploto]

I guess switching keeps you from defending no one like Bonner did several times the previous game!

[Obstructed_View]

I am still very confused as to why Pop thought switching would work.

Its a very shady coaching call.

The same reason he thought switching would work in 2006 against Dallas: He doesn't seem to realilze that shot-blocking centers are important to playing good defense.