Ranking the Small Forwards Draft Prospects

[Chieflion]

This thread is to compare one of the Spurs' current needs that could be filled in the draft come 2010 draft day whether they would fall or not, or trade. I would also compare players who can play the 2 or 3 in the NBA, such as Evan Turner or James Anderson and also players who need to adjust to playing the 3 at the NBA level, like Damion James.

1. Evan Turner (Projected Top 2, Junior)
2. Al-Farouq Aminu (Projected Top 5 to Top 10, Sophomore)
3. Wesley Johnson (Projected Top 10 to Late Lottery, Junior)
4. Xavier Henry (Projected Late Lottery to Mid-First, Freshman)
5. Damion James (Projected Mid-First to Early Twenties, Senior)
6. James Anderson (Projected Mid-First to Early Twenties, Junior)
7. Gordon Hayward (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
8. Stanley Robinson (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Senior)
9. Paul George (Early Twenties to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
10. Luke Babbitt (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Sophomore)
11. Quincy Pondexter (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Senior)
12. Devin Ebanks (Late First to Mid Second Rounder, Sophomore)
13. Darington Hobson (Early Second Rounder to Late Second Rounder, Junior)
14. Robin Benzing (Mid Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)
15. Nemanja Bjelica (Late Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)
16. Vladmir Dasic (Late Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)



I will add more as we go along if I forgot anyone. I do not advocate dreams of drafting Evan Turner. That is not the point of this thread. The point of this is to compare similar talent, age, upside, skills, among these players to determine the best available pick for the Spurs.

I will update more comparisons between different players as we go along with this thread.

[Bruno]

Dasic has nothing to do on this list.

[I <3 SPURS]

Stanley Robinson should be a #1 priority for the Spurs if available at #20.

[TimmehC]

Stanley Robinson should be a #1 priority for the Spurs if available at #20.

This. DX's mock draft currently has us taking him, too. His listed strengths at DX include:

- Efficiency
- Ability to contest shots
- Lateral quickness
- Man to man defense
- Versatility to defend multiple positions

If there's any truth to that, I could easily see this guy wearing the silver and black next year. Well, that and the fact that he sucks at FT shooting.

[Bruno]

Bruno, you might know more about it, but the best player overseas yet to be drafted is some Serbian guy. Who am I thinking of?

Jan Vesely?

He is Czech but is playing for a Serbian team. He is an awesome young player but he hasn't entered in this year draft.

[biziofromdowntown]

Vesely is in Euroleague F4, he's playing for Partizan Beograd. I saw the semifinal against Olympiacos and he mad a great performance, but too young for the NBA, in a couple of years if he'll improve he should be ready for the next level.

[AFBlue]

This thread is to compare one of the Spurs' current needs that could be filled in the draft come 2010 draft day whether they would fall or not, or trade. I would also compare players who can play the 2 or 3 in the NBA, such as Evan Turner or James Anderson and also players who need to adjust to playing the 3 at the NBA level, like Damion James.

1. Evan Turner (Projected Top 2, Junior)
2. Al-Farouq Aminu (Projected Top 5 to Top 10, Sophomore)
3. Wesley Johnson (Projected Top 10 to Late Lottery, Junior)
4. Xavier Henry (Projected Late Lottery to Mid-First, Freshman)
5. Damion James (Projected Mid-First to Early Twenties, Senior)
6. Gordon Hayward (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
7. Stanley Robinson (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Senior)
8. Paul George (Early Twenties to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
9. Luke Babbitt (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Sophomore)
10. Quincy Pondexter (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Senior)
11. Devin Ebanks (Late First to Mid Second Rounder, Sophomore)
12. Darington Hobson (Early Second Rounder to Late Second Rounder, Junior)
13. Vladmir Dasic (Mis Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)


I will add more as we go along if I forgot anyone. I do not advocate dreams of drafting Evan Turner. That is not the point of this thread. The point of this is to compare similar talent, age, upside, skills, among these players to determine the best available pick for the Spurs.

I will update more comparisons between different players as we go along with this thread.

You mentioned James Anderson but forgot to put him in your ranking. He's probably Late Lottery to Mid-First behind Henry.

[AFBlue]

Stanley Robinson should be a #1 priority for the Spurs if available at #20.


This. DX's mock draft currently has us taking him, too. His listed strengths at DX include:

- Efficiency
- Ability to contest shots
- Lateral quickness
- Man to man defense
- Versatility to defend multiple positions

If there's any truth to that, I could easily see this guy wearing the silver and black next year. Well, that and the fact that he sucks at FT shooting.

Robinson's biggest knock is that he doesn't have a high BBIQ. I'd hesitate to single out one guy for the Spurs to take, especially one that doesn't really have a good grasp of the game.

[Bruno]

Thanks for the news.

If Spurs don't like collegiate players, I can see them trading their first round pick.

The international players pool is very weak this year. There is Lithuanian player Motiejunas but he should be gone before #20 if he stays in the draft. After him, the best ranked player is the french prospect Kevin Séraphin. His agent (the well known Bouna N'Diaye) projects him between #18 and #35 but I would be surprised to see Spurs taking him at #20.

I don't follow NCAA but when I read scouting reports, Paul George is first on my draft board among the realistic options.

[Chieflion]

You mentioned James Anderson but forgot to put him in your ranking. He's probably Late Lottery to Mid-First behind Henry.

Thanks for the reminder, although I don't think James Anderson would go in the lottery, due to his weakness on defense and athletic ability. He would make a great role-playing shooter running through screens though.

[AFBlue]

Thanks for the reminder, although I don't think James Anderson would go in the lottery, due to his weakness on defense and athletic ability. He would make a great role-playing shooter running through screens though.

He does have some limitations to be sure, but he's probably the best pure scorer in the draft and that will get him picked higher than he probably ought to be.

[DesignatedT]

James Anderson :tu

[Truckules]

Since there really isn't a specific thread for my question, I'll ask it in this one. Who is projected to be the better defender, Paul George or Quincy Pondexter? I don't get a chance to watch much west coast basketball, so I haven't seen Paul George in action at all and only a little bit of Quincy Pondexter.

[AFBlue]

I think we can pretty safely say that Turner, Johnson and Aminu will be off the board well before the Spurs pick. But the rest is a pretty talented group of players, and though they each have their weaknesses, I think they can bring something the Spurs need.

The shooters/scorers are Henry, Anderson, Hayward, George and Babbitt. The slashers/defenders are James, Robinson and Pondexter. Most in this group are a known commodity, with the possible exception of George and Robinson, who offer some upside.

Here's my personal ranking of the players based on player talent/upside and the team needs...

1. George - good shooter, smooth player, considerable upside
2. Pondexter - great motor, solid defender, aggressive
3. Henry - great shooter, nice size
4. Anderson - great scorer, good shooter
5. Hayward - good shooter, nice size
6. Babbitt - great scorer, nice size
7. James - great motor, aggressive
8. Robinson - great size and athleticism, defensive potential

[AFBlue]

Since there really isn't a specific thread for my question, I'll ask it in this one. Who is projected to be the better defender, Paul George or Quincy Pondexter? I don't get a chance to watch much west coast basketball, so I haven't seen Paul George in action at all and only a little bit of Quincy Pondexter.

If Pondexter never really develops a solid perimeter game, he'll carve out a niche as a defender. He's that good.

George has nice length and athleticism, but he has to be considered a project in nearly every aspect of the game...including defense.

[mountainballer]

Since there really isn't a specific thread for my question, I'll ask it in this one. Who is projected to be the better defender, Paul George or Quincy Pondexter? I don't get a chance to watch much west coast basketball, so I haven't seen Paul George in action at all and only a little bit of Quincy Pondexter.

Pondexter is the much better defender right now and likely will ever be. while most scouting reports credit the defensive potential George has, it's also doubted that he can ever develop enough strength to be a good defender on NBA level.

[Chieflion]

Update: Added Robin Benzing and Nemanja Bjelica.

[mogrovejo]

Vesely is in Euroleague F4, he's playing for Partizan Beograd. I saw the semifinal against Olympiacos and he mad a great performance, but too young for the NBA, in a couple of years if he'll improve he should be ready for the next level.

Really? I think Vesely is more than ready to play in the NBA and as a very solid contributor. Maybe with a bigger role in Partizan's offense next season he'll improve his draft position (especially if he shows the ability to create off the bounce, something he almost never did this season), but I can't see in which NBA team he'd fail to see minutes to the point of hindering his development. He was spectacular vs. Olympiacos - he ended the game completely gazed and struggled to deal with Vasilopoulos size but IMO he's already a better player than Childress.

I like Alimu at the 4. I don't think he's going to play on the wing in the NBA.

I dont' know George, but Pondexter is a very good defender.

[MaNu4Tres]

Maybe. The Spurs don't seem to be too high on collegiate players in this draft, but they like a Serbian kid who is too young to be drafted. Maybe he plays in Serbia and I got confused. I asked about a few players such as Ekpe Udoh and Paul George. Spurs like George, but think he under-achieved last season. Also he shoots 90% from the free throw line making him less likely to be a Spur haha.

:tu Thanks for the news.

Although wouldn't be surprised if that changes after the NBA Draft Combine.

I highly doubt Spurs were excited to draft Hill after games against Oral Roberts, UMKC and North Dakota State.

[mogrovejo]

but they like a Serbian kid who is too young to be drafted

http://www.euroleague.net/resourceserver/20336/7949efb8-b3a1-4c0b-838d-e14a3ed75967/c94/rglang/en-US/filename/794.jpg

He'll only be draft eligible in 2012.

[SenorSpur]

Maybe. The Spurs don't seem to be too high on collegiate players in this draft, but they like a Serbian kid who is too young to be drafted. Maybe he plays in Serbia and I got confused. I asked about a few players such as Ekpe Udoh and Paul George. Spurs like George, but think he under-achieved last season. Also he shoots 90% from the free throw line making him less likely to be a Spur haha.

It's great to hear that they like Paul George. From what I've read about him, he's supposed to be a terrific perimeter shootero, with NBA 3-pt range, along with a high release point.

Could the fact that the Spurs believe he underachieved sour them on taking him?

What is their opinion on Ekpe Udoh?

By the way, you must have great sources. Appreciate the information. :toast

[SenorSpur]

the spurs don't look the draft up and down since they have the 20th pick. They know about Udoh and like his ability, but it's like John Wall, sure you might like a player but what are the actual chances of him falling to you? Similar to DeJuan. As far as I know the Spurs didn't work him out 1 minute but he was a great college player so they took him ahead of players they liked such as Budinger and Green.

How about George? Do you think they like him enough to seriously consider him, despite his alleged underachievement last year?

[kromediablo]

Vesely is in Euroleague F4, he's playing for Partizan Beograd. I saw the semifinal against Olympiacos and he mad a great performance, but too young for the NBA, in a couple of years if he'll improve he should be ready for the next level.


How is this guy too young...problem is hes signed overseas till 2013:

3zlB5w08_Es&feature

this guy is a highflyer good match up against a lamar odom...dont really know much about his shot though.

[DesignatedT]

Oh yeah, for the record it was Jan Vesely. I just forgot for a moment.

Phila, What is your short list of spurs draft prospects? Anyone you would prefer the spurs take or wouldn't mind us trying to trade up and grab?

[DesignatedT]

I think Paul George is for sure a good prospect to grab. I like Devin Ebanks as a back up plan because his game will convert very easily to the NBA. I live in Austin so I watch the Longhorns a good bit, and I want the Spurs to avoid both Bradly and James. Damion is more of an undersized power forward than a 3 and Bradly should have stayed in school. Not many realistic options for moving up and drafting. Aldrich is not too good based off the game I saw in person and the several I saw on TV.

The more I think about it, the more I agree that I don't really like the college players in the draft outside of the few there are. Udoh is good, but he will be a project the first couple years. I think Ebanks and Paul George are the most realistic NBA ready need filling players the Spurs can draft at 20.

George is definitely up there on my list also. I also feel like James Anderson or Xavier Henry would be nice choices. All 3 of those guys can shoot the ball. I never got to see George play but I did see Anderson and Henry. (I go to A&M so i definitely agree with avoiding James and Bradley :lol)

Don't know anything about Ebanks.

Udoh would be nice if he somehow fell, but I don't see that happening. I definitely would want to avoid Stanley Robinson or Pondexter although it seems a lot are high on those 2 around here. Overall it is a pretty weak draft IMO.

[Ditty]

i heard that if paul george would have stayed in school for another year he would of been a top 10 pick in the 2011 nba draft

[Bruno]

What I find interesting is to rank them by their 3 point shoot:

3 points made by 40 minutes (with the 3P% between parenthesis):
1. Xavier Henry: 2.7 (41.8%)
2. James Anderson: 2.6 (34.1%)
3. Paul George: 2.5 (35.3%)
4. Gordon Hayward: 1.5 (29.4%)
5. Damion James: 1.4 (38.3%)
6. Luke Babbitt: 1.3 (41.6%)
7. Stanley Robinson: 0.9 (34.2%)
8. Quincy Pondexter: 0.6 (35.3%)
9. Deven Ebanks: 0.1 (10%)

[mountainballer]

DeJuan was great because if he has an off-season similar to George Hill's he could come back next season as Charles Barkley.

you mean he takes and posts nude pictures and adds 100 lbs?

[Mr. Body]

Paul George's Fresno State was really mediocre this year, as in pretty bad. They had a couple miserable performances late in the year, getting creamed by the likes of Utah State and San Jose State (!).

[AFBlue]

Xavier Henry is probably the most interesting prospect of the bunch. He is athletic as hell, left handed and has good upside, but he was on a loaded Kansas team to draw major attention. I should have asked about him seeing as how RC and Bill Self are friends.

Actually he gets dinged for average athleticism along with his lack of an in-between game (i.e. lives on jumpshot). But, given his youth and ability to shoot, I think the Spurs would be lucky to see him fall to them.

I liken him to Martell Webster with *gulp* prime Michael Finley as upside.

[EricB]

Actually he gets dinged for average athleticism along with his lack of an in-between game (i.e. lives on jumpshot). But, given his youth and ability to shoot, I think the Spurs would be lucky to see him fall to them.

I liken him to Martell Webster with *gulp* prime Michael Finley as upside.


Prime Michael Finley was an all star stud.

[AFBlue]

Prime Michael Finley was an all star stud.

Oh I know...just thought the name may draw some immediate criticism. It's a good gulp.

[superjames1992]

This thread is to compare one of the Spurs' current needs that could be filled in the draft come 2010 draft day whether they would fall or not, or trade. I would also compare players who can play the 2 or 3 in the NBA, such as Evan Turner or James Anderson and also players who need to adjust to playing the 3 at the NBA level, like Damion James.

1. Evan Turner (Projected Top 2, Junior)
2. Al-Farouq Aminu (Projected Top 5 to Top 10, Sophomore)
3. Wesley Johnson (Projected Top 10 to Late Lottery, Junior)
4. Xavier Henry (Projected Late Lottery to Mid-First, Freshman)
5. Damion James (Projected Mid-First to Early Twenties, Senior)
6. James Anderson (Projected Mid-First to Early Twenties, Junior)
7. Gordon Hayward (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
8. Stanley Robinson (Projected Mid-First to Late First Rounder, Senior)
9. Paul George (Early Twenties to Late First Rounder, Sophomore)
10. Luke Babbitt (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Sophomore)
11. Quincy Pondexter (Late First to Early Second Rounder, Senior)
12. Devin Ebanks (Late First to Mid Second Rounder, Sophomore)
13. Darington Hobson (Early Second Rounder to Late Second Rounder, Junior)
14. Robin Benzing (Mid Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)
15. Nemanja Bjelica (Late Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)
16. Vladmir Dasic (Late Second Rounder to Undrafted, International)



I will add more as we go along if I forgot anyone. I do not advocate dreams of drafting Evan Turner. That is not the point of this thread. The point of this is to compare similar talent, age, upside, skills, among these players to determine the best available pick for the Spurs.

I will update more comparisons between different players as we go along with this thread.
No Da'Sean Butler? Or is he considered a shooting guard in the draft? He played more of a small forward position at WVU last year, though.

[Ditty]

No Da'Sean Butler? Or is he considered a shooting guard in the draft? He played more of a small forward position at WVU last year, though.

he tore his acl

[Mr. Body]

If Xavier Henry is there you take him without thinking.

Haywood is probably a better shooter than his percentages show last year. As a spot-up shooter he might be really good.

Babbitt is strange in that his 3s per game are so relatively low for a guy known for his range.

Ebanks both doesn't have the shot nor the character to be the right pick. I wonder if Pondexter disqualifies himself for a pick this high for the same reason.

[DesignatedT]

I still like James Anderson. seems much on here don't mention this kid a lot. I like Henry,Anderson and George.

Don't like robinson or pondexter.

unsure about hayward.

[Mr. Body]

James Anderson is definitely under the radar around here. He's been passed up so far becuase of concerns about bad defense.

[superjames1992]

he tore his acl

As a WVU fan, I'm aware of that, but I still find it hard to believe that there are 16 SFs that are going to be drafted ahead of him.

If he does fall that low, someone is going to get a steal. Hopefully, it'll be us.

I definitely wouldn't rank Ebanks ahead of Butler. Ebanks was not that good last year. He rebounded well and made some good plays, but he can't shoot and is pretty skinny. He's certainly a project. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of his attitude.

[dbestpro]

There always seems like there are 20 small forwards who are going to be prime time NBA players every year and about 5 make it.

My five with some surprise
1. Turner
2. Johnson
3. Henry
4. George
5. Babbitt

[jesterbobman]

I can't wait till DX does there advanced stats stuff on SF's, looking at things like 3pt% open, 3pt% off the dribble, Points per possesion etc. I'm not sure where that data would be, though I think that advanced stats can be helpful(e.g., We can probably guess that any prospect that we get will probably be taking open corner 3's(The traditional non ball handling shot for perimeter players), have to be able to defend true SF's, as they'll be playing with Hill or Manu almost all of the time , so they'll be defending the Anthony's, Pierces, Durants of the World. I think advanced stats will help with the analysis of that.

[mountainballer]

If Xavier Henry is there you take him without thinking.

Haywood is probably a better shooter than his percentages show last year. As a spot-up shooter he might be really good.


agree about Henry. if he is there, you take him. some mocks have his stock falling, but I think the chance he falls to #20 is lower than 1%. he is the hands down best shooter in this draft and so many of the lottery teams are desperate for shooting. he will go top ten. (my guess is Clippers at #8) no chance he falls lower than Grizzlies at #12.

Hayward will very likely also be out of our area. he has the most potential and highest upside of all SFs outside the lottery bound players. one team will take the risk.

[benefactor]

Here's my top 3. Like AFBlue, I've left out players that I feel will not be there when the Spurs draft(no, I don't think Henry will be there). In looking at the prospects, I have ranked them according to NBA readiness and ability to contribute in the most areas.

1. Quincy Pondexter

There is a ton to like about this kid. He is a good ball handler that does not turn the ball over, he is a good rebounder on both ends and despite popular opinion he can shoot. Something that I think keeps getting overlooked in his shooting is PPS on his jumpers, which is 0.94. As DX has mentioned that's pretty damn good for someone who shot a lot of contested jumpers. There is no reason to believe it will get worse when he is playing off the Big 3 and shooting while wide open. He also moves very well without the ball and can finish when attacking the rim, drawing contact and sinking free throws at a 83% clip(Mind you, these are things the Spurs expected out of RJ). As many have said, the jury is still out on his ability from distance due to lack of sample size. This is something he will need to show NBA teams he can do during workouts this summer.

Defensively, he is the most NBA ready of the group and this is the biggest reason he tops my wish list. His effort, fundamentals and awareness on rotations are something the Spurs really need on the perimeter...even moreso than 3pt shooting IMO. The Suns destroying the Spurs in the playoffs had just as much...if not more to do with poor defensive rotations as it had to do with lack of 3pt shooting.

2. Paul George

There is no debate here...this kid can shoot. He has a nice looking shot and can drain the 3 ball. Though he is not that big bulk-wise, he is very athletic and has improved greatly at finishing around the rim, getting to the line and sinking his free throws when he gets there(90%!). He's a good defensive rebounder and a good passer...both things that are important to the Spurs. He can be considered the official "oozing with upside" pick of this draft when picking at this point in the first round.

There are a few red flags with him though that suggest a lack of focus. He turns the ball over at a higher rate than he gets assists. He also has the tools to be a good defender but doesn't put in the effort that is necessary. His energy level at times also leaves much to be desired. He can get steals due to his length, but he will need to work on dialing in on the defensive end if he plans to stay on the floor with the Spurs or any other team(well, maybe except the Warriors). All in all, I don't think he will be much more than a shooter off the bench next season as he will need time to develop the finer points of his game.

3. Gordon Hayward

Hayward has all the tools to be the perfect role player...and as DX mentioned, he should excel in that arena instead of having to be the man like he was at Butler. He has great length at 6'8 and can shoot from anywhere. I think that much of the decline in his 3pt shooting has to do with him being the offensive focus for Butler. He is also a great defensive rebounder for a SF. To put it in perspective, Dejuan Blair averaged 6.8 defensive rebounds per game in his last season at Pitt and Hayward averaged 6.3 last year almost the same amount of minutes. That's pretty good company.

He's a very intelligent player that plays within his limits...as his athleticism is questionable. This also makes him hard to project defensively. However, this does not mean he will automatically be a bad defender, as he shows good effort and makes good decisions on the defensive end. One only has to look as far as JJ Redick to see that there are players out there that can become good team defenders and passable man defenders at the NBA level when they work hard, play smart and stay within themselves.

I really like this kid. He's very close to George on my list.


As far as the rest go, I don't feel they are worth guaranteed money at the 20th pick(with the exception of Henry if he falls). Robinson doesn't do any one thing well except be athletic. Anderson can shoot, but doesn't have much upside beyond that and will get destroyed on defense by wings at the next level. Ebanks has character issues and Babbit is a lesser version Hayward.

[yavozerb]

I like the list benefactor...I would rank George #1 cause of his shooting and again I will ask you, do you think poindexter is better defensively than hairston?

[rjv]

one has to wonder too what the plans for james gist are and how this would effect our pick

[Darkwaters]

one has to wonder too what the plans for james gist are and how this would effect our pick

At this point I think Gist is on the Viktor Sanikidze plan.

[rjv]

At this point I think Gist is on the Viktor Sanikidze plan.

i believe so as well. he did not impress in last year's summer league or preseason so i have to be thinking he is not ever going to be on our roster.

[benefactor]

I like the list benefactor...I would rank George #1 cause of his shooting and again I will ask you, do you think poindexter is better defensively than hairston?
They are probably close, but I think Pondexter is a much more complete player on the offensive end and is a better rebounder.

[yavozerb]

They are probably close, but I think Pondexter is a much more complete player on the offensive end and is a better rebounder.

I dont know, I will have to wait for the predraft measurements to make my decesion on this kid. I see a player who is probably really 6'5 (hairston is really 6'4) who just doesnt seem to do anything very well. I am really hoping the spurs are looking for a shooter instead of an athletic SF who rebounds well since we already have hairston or Gee who can feel that void.

[Blackjack]

Nice job, benefactor. :tu

I've really slacked on the Draft this year and am nowhere as in tune as I've been in the past.

I like Pondexter but I haven't seen as much as I'd like to give a great scout. Watching the tournament though, I liked his purpose and confidence. He's not a wallflower and I think he's got the toughness you'd hope for. Good energy, athleticism and seemingly length, so I'd be fine with his selection; but I honestly don't know enough to be enthused or disappointed with his selection either.

As far as Hayward, instead of using Redick as an example of a lesser athlete doing a credible job defensively, I'd look to Dudley; Haywood might actually even be a better athlete than him. I actually think his athleticism is going to surprise some. I'm not certain of his quickness (stop-and-go wise) but he's actually a pretty fluid athlete that just seems to play at a more deliberate pace; exploding and only fully utilizing his athleticism to complete or make the play. Not a lot of wasted movement or energy from what I've been able to glean. He just seemed to be a pretty tough, intelligent player, that had good size and some guard skills; you could definitely see he played a lot of a play-making roles as a youth (maybe even a point guard) and that he had the mind too excel at the game. If I had to guess, I'd say he's got what it takes to be a rotation player/role-player for a winner. Maybe even a championship-caliber team.

[kbrury]

I dont know, I will have to wait for the predraft measurements to make my decesion on this kid. I see a player who is probably really 6'5 (hairston is really 6'4) who just doesnt seem to do anything very well. I am really hoping the spurs are looking for a shooter instead of an athletic SF who rebounds well since we already have hairston or Gee who can feel that void.

Uhhh he defends and attacks the rim really well....

[benefactor]

I dont know, I will have to wait for the predraft measurements to make my decesion on this kid. I see a player who is probably really 6'5 (hairston is really 6'4) who just doesnt seem to do anything very well. I am really hoping the spurs are looking for a shooter instead of an athletic SF who rebounds well since we already have hairston or Gee who can feel that void.
I'm not sure where you are getting that he does not do anything very well. I lined out quite a few things above.

I agree with you on the measurements. If he is not a true 6'6 then there might be some reservations.

[yavozerb]

Uhhh he defends and attacks the rim really well....

thats my point, so does hairston....

[benefactor]

thats my point, so does hairston....
There is a reason Hairston was picked at 48 and Pondexter will go in the 20's. Beyond a few nice finishes at the rim Hairston has proven to be pretty limited offensively so far. Even after a couple of seasons his ball handling is still pretty shaky. His rebounding...which was pedestrian at Oregon has not really improved either. After two seasons he is still nothing more than a situational defender who occasionally finish at the rim. Forgive me...he does light it up in the D-League though.

Pondexter handles the ball better, is a better jump shooter, is a better shot creator and is far and away a better rebounder. Except for the questions surrounding his 3pt shot he is NBA role player ready on both ends of the court.

[mountainballer]

I agree with you on the measurements. If he is not a true 6'6 then there might be some reservations.

agree. we should know in a week. personally I do think he is closer to "true" 6'6'' (or 6'7'' in shoes) and a 7' wingspan, than the mentioned 6'5''. (or let's call it Hairston size)

Jon Brockman - 2009
height without shoes: 6' 7"
height with shoes: 6' 8"

http://www.google.at/imgres?imgurl=http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/85547363.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DIWSAsset%26k%3D2%26d%3D 77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5485929F8486CB00B36DA 6EC0DD0D8A236032EB110B93F8CCBCE30A760B0D811297&imgrefurl=http://www.life.com/image/85547363&usg=__D_6f0prhynSTd2wJUpxsHfHm764=&h=594&w=396&sz=39&hl=de&start=53&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=D-MHxZ6pD1KYzM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpondexter%2Bbrockman%26start%3D42%26u m%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:de:official%26chann el%3Ds%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3Disch:1

[mountainballer]

I agree with you on the measurements. If he is not a true 6'6 then there might be some reservations.

agree. we should know in a week. personally I do think he is closer to "true" 6'6'' (or 6'7'' in shoes) and a 7' wingspan, than the mentioned 6'5''. (or let's call it Hairston size)

Jon Brockman - 2009
height without shoes: 6' 7"
height with shoes: 6' 8"
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Cs6Bc67f6NS/340x.jpg

[benefactor]

Good picture comparison. :tu

In looking at video and pictures, I have always thought he looked longer than Hairston too. We'll know for sure soon.

[ChuckD]

agree about Henry. if he is there, you take him. some mocks have his stock falling, but I think the chance he falls to #20 is lower than 1%. he is the hands down best shooter in this draft and so many of the lottery teams are desperate for shooting. he will go top ten. (my guess is Clippers at #8) no chance he falls lower than Grizzlies at #12.

Hayward will very likely also be out of our area. he has the most potential and highest upside of all SFs outside the lottery bound players. one team will take the risk.

I don't know, man. He was going at #6 or #7 earlier, but now he seems to be in the middle of the first round. It's all well and good to want shooting, but a lot of lotto teams will take a chance on a different kid either panning out or completely busting, rather than a one dimensional shooter.

His stock is definitely bearish.

[JonNOKC]

this draft is very intereting because of the depth - while the lottery guys aren't as talented as some drafts - I think you will see more contributors from the 15th pick on than in quite some time (maybe not next year, but 3 years from now I think people will look at 2010 as damn good draft year) - if no one drops to the Spurs that they feel is ready to contribute next year I think then unless they really like the upside of someone on board at 20 you may see a trade perhaps picking up extra picks in this draft or rights. The Spurs may not want guaranteed contract that comes with 1st round pick and there is lot of depth - the problem with the SFs in this draft is while there are many talented guys they all have at least one glaring weakness in their game that makes it very unlikely they could contribute right away.

[AFBlue]

Here's my top 3. Like AFBlue, I've left out players that I feel will not be there when the Spurs draft(no, I don't think Henry will be there). In looking at the prospects, I have ranked them according to NBA readiness and ability to contribute in the most areas.

1. Quincy Pondexter

There is a ton to like about this kid. He is a good ball handler that does not turn the ball over, he is a good rebounder on both ends and despite popular opinion he can shoot. Something that I think keeps getting overlooked in his shooting is PPS on his jumpers, which is 0.94. As DX has mentioned that's pretty damn good for someone who shot a lot of contested jumpers. There is no reason to believe it will get worse when he is playing off the Big 3 and shooting while wide open. He also moves very well without the ball and can finish when attacking the rim, drawing contact and sinking free throws at a 83% clip(Mind you, these are things the Spurs expected out of RJ). As many have said, the jury is still out on his ability from distance due to lack of sample size. This is something he will need to show NBA teams he can do during workouts this summer.

Defensively, he is the most NBA ready of the group and this is the biggest reason he tops my wish list. His effort, fundamentals and awareness on rotations are something the Spurs really need on the perimeter...even moreso than 3pt shooting IMO. The Suns destroying the Spurs in the playoffs had just as much...if not more to do with poor defensive rotations as it had to do with lack of 3pt shooting.

2. Paul George

There is no debate here...this kid can shoot. He has a nice looking shot and can drain the 3 ball. Though he is not that big bulk-wise, he is very athletic and has improved greatly at finishing around the rim, getting to the line and sinking his free throws when he gets there(90%!). He's a good defensive rebounder and a good passer...both things that are important to the Spurs. He can be considered the official "oozing with upside" pick of this draft when picking at this point in the first round.

There are a few red flags with him though that suggest a lack of focus. He turns the ball over at a higher rate than he gets assists. He also has the tools to be a good defender but doesn't put in the effort that is necessary. His energy level at times also leaves much to be desired. He can get steals due to his length, but he will need to work on dialing in on the defensive end if he plans to stay on the floor with the Spurs or any other team(well, maybe except the Warriors). All in all, I don't think he will be much more than a shooter off the bench next season as he will need time to develop the finer points of his game.

3. Gordon Hayward

Hayward has all the tools to be the perfect role player...and as DX mentioned, he should excel in that arena instead of having to be the man like he was at Butler. He has great length at 6'8 and can shoot from anywhere. I think that much of the decline in his 3pt shooting has to do with him being the offensive focus for Butler. He is also a great defensive rebounder for a SF. To put it in perspective, Dejuan Blair averaged 6.8 defensive rebounds per game in his last season at Pitt and Hayward averaged 6.3 last year almost the same amount of minutes. That's pretty good company.

He's a very intelligent player that plays within his limits...as his athleticism is questionable. This also makes him hard to project defensively. However, this does not mean he will automatically be a bad defender, as he shows good effort and makes good decisions on the defensive end. One only has to look as far as JJ Redick to see that there are players out there that can become good team defenders and passable man defenders at the NBA level when they work hard, play smart and stay within themselves.

I really like this kid. He's very close to George on my list.


As far as the rest go, I don't feel they are worth guaranteed money at the 20th pick(with the exception of Henry if he falls). Robinson doesn't do any one thing well except be athletic. Anderson can shoot, but doesn't have much upside beyond that and will get destroyed on defense by wings at the next level. Ebanks has character issues and Babbit is a lesser version Hayward.

Solid in-depth post. :tu

I want the Spurs to see what you see in Pondexter...a capable, willing defender and efficient offensive player. Does he fit the best in this system relative to other potential draftees? No. But, this kid's hustle and work ethic lead me to believe he may be the best of the group down the road.

But they may not have to make a choice between them, because at this point it looks like Pondexter may be the only one left on the draft board when the Spurs pick!

[wildbill2u]

Why nothing about Vlad Dasic this year? He's had another year of Euro ball under his belt and as a mobile 6'10 who can defend the perimeter he might be in the mix.

From last years DX: The best part about Dasic’s game surprisingly might be his defense. He seems to have no problem guarding wing players from what we’ve seen this year, getting low in a fundamental stance, moving his feet extremely well and doing a great job containing penetration and contesting shots with his length. He’s doing a solid job on both SFs and PFs this season, playing with good intensity, and sees production in the stat-sheet as well—as he currently leads the Adriatic League in steals per game.

[Bruno]

Why nothing about Vlad Dasic this year? He's had another year of Euro ball under his belt and as a mobile 6'10 who can defend the perimeter he might be in the mix.


Dasic has sucked this year and has had an horrible attitude. He has even been waived from his team. I don't have a clue why he is still on DX mock draft.

[DesignatedT]

1.Henry
2.George
3.Anderson
4.Babbitt

for me at the moment

possibility that none of those will be there...

[Gino2882]

1.Henry
2.George
3.Anderson
4.Babbitt

for me at the moment

possibility that none of those will be there...

Very much agree with those 4 players. Also Damian James from Texas and Patterson from Kentucky would be very tough to pass up.

[SenorSpur]

In thinking about the possible SFs available and which direction the Spurs should go, I'm struck with an interesting question:

Which skill is the hardest for a young player to perfect at the next level? Developing into a consistent 3-point shooter or learning how to defend?

[Blackjack]

If you've got the tools and want-to to play defense, you can play defense; the same cannot be said for shooting.

[lurker23]

A few measurements from this group:

Ebanks: 6' 7" w/o shoes, 6' 8.25" w/shoes, 7' 0.25" wingspan, 8' 11.5" standing reach

Robinson: 6' 6.5" w/o shoes, 6' 7.75" w/shoes, 7' 0" wingspan, 8' 11.5" standing reach

George: 6' 7.76" w/o shoes, 6' 8.75" w/ shoes, 6' 11.25" wingspan, 8' 11" standing reach

Henry: 6' 5.25" w/o shoes, 6' 6.5" w/shoes, 6' 11.25" wingspan, 8' 9" standing reach


Some body fat winners:

Wesley Johnson: 4.6%
Henry: 4.7%
George: 5.0%


http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2010&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&sort=7

[wildbill2u]

one has to wonder too what the plans for james gist are and how this would effect our pick

Gist and James White are touring Europe together this summer.

[wildbill2u]

After looking at Velesy (sp?) video I was impressed. Very mobile for a big man and can he fly!

If we go to our famous draft and stash a Euro gambit again, he might be my pick over Seraphin. Like to see more of both of them.

[Bruno]

After looking at Velesy (sp?) video I was impressed. Very mobile for a big man and can he fly!

If we go to our famous draft and stash a Euro gambit again, he might be my pick over Seraphin. Like to see more of both of them.

Vesely has decided not to enter in the draft this year.

[Bruno]

Among the realistic candidates for #20 (Damion James, James Anderson, Gordon Hayward, Stanley Robinson, Paul George, Luke Babbitt, Quincy Pondexter and Devin Ebanks), draft measurements doesn't allow to really draw conclusions:

- Pondexter was out because of a finger injury.

- James Anderson is the shortest but he more a SG than a SF. At 6'6" and without a great wingspan or great athleticism, he is maybe too small to play SF.

- The other 6 players have damn close measurements. Their height with shoes is between 6'7.75" and 6'8.75". Hayward is the one with the smallest wingspan and reach.

[Mel_13]

Measurements link:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/


Edit: Posted at least twice already in other threads.

[Chieflion]

If we can't get George, I think Babbitt would be perfect. Damn those measurements are scary, and he is quite a polished player.

The reason why it is so scary is that,

John Wall: 30.0, 39.0, -N-a, 10.84, 3.14 (No-Step Vert, Max Vert, Bench Press, Lane Agility, 3/4 Sprint)
Luke Babbitt: 29.5, 37.5, 15, 10.98, 3.4 (No-Step Vert, Max Vert, Bench Press, Lane Agility, 3/4 Sprint)

John Wall is definitely the most athletic player in the draft, no question. Although measurements cannot tell the entire story, like in-game explosiveness, but it shows that Babbitt is deceptively athletic as a forward and has some size and length. They also started doing hand length and width in which Babbitt also measured quite well in.

Luke Babbitt: 8.5, 10.0 (Hand Length, Hand Width)

In comparision, let us see the size of the hands of the other small forwards/shooting guards.

Al-Farouq Aminu: 9.5, 9.5 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Devin Ebanks: 8.3, 9.0 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Paul George: 8.5, 9.0 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Xavier Henry: 8.8, 10.0 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Damion James: 9.3, 8.5 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Wesley Johnson: 9.0, 9.5 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Lance Stephenson: 9.0, 10.3 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Evan Turner: 8.8, 9.5 (Hand Length, Hand Width)
Gordon Hayward: 8.5, 9.3 (Hand Length, Hand Width)

Again, in comparision to these guys, Babbitt has bigger hands than most and a way better shooting touch than most of the players, which is a very good positive.

Cross posting.

[Bruno]

When you look at mock drafts, Henry, Hayward, George and Babbitt all have a high probability of being drafted before #20.

Top SFs at Spurs could be: Damion James, Stanley Robinson, Devin Ebanks and Quincy Pondexter. Who would you pick among these 4?

[yavozerb]

When you look at mock drafts, Henry, Hayward, George and Babbitt all have a high probability of being drafted before #20.

Top SFs at Spurs could be: Damion James, Stanley Robinson, Devin Ebanks and Quincy Pondexter. Who would you pick among these 4?

Hopefully your wrong and one of those guys will fall, but out of the bottom 4 I think I would choose James..Out of the bottom 4 I think he would be the best fit for a possible 3/4 sf, most athletic, him and pondexter are about equal at the offensive end, above average rebounder, and his arm length is pretty good at 7ft to become a legit defender. I also believe that if the top 4 are off the board you may see the spurs take a big with this pick.

[Gino2882]

Damion James would be a good pick if the likes of George and Henry are gone. James plays with a ridiculous motor, can defend several spots, and would slide right into a backup role and play meaningful minutes.

[mountainballer]

John Wall: 30.0, 39.0, -N-a, 10.84, 3.14 (No-Step Vert, Max Vert, Bench Press, Lane Agility, 3/4 Sprint)
Luke Babbitt: 29.5, 37.5, 15, 10.98, 3.4 (No-Step Vert, Max Vert, Bench Press, Lane Agility, 3/4 Sprint)


do you have the list with all the athletic tests? could you post it? thanks!

[mountainballer]

When you look at mock drafts, Henry, Hayward, George and Babbitt all have a high probability of being drafted before #20.

Top SFs at Spurs could be: Damion James, Stanley Robinson, Devin Ebanks and Quincy Pondexter. Who would you pick among these 4?

Pondexter
James
Ebanks
Robinson

[BronxCowboy]

I also believe that if the top 4 are off the board you may see the spurs take a big with this pick.

Do you have someone in mind, or just in general think that a big man would be a better selection than the SF/gaurds that would be left?

[BronxCowboy]

Top SFs at Spurs could be: Damion James, Stanley Robinson, Devin Ebanks and Quincy Pondexter. Who would you pick among these 4?

I liked Ebanks during the NCAA tournament, and it seems to me his attitude problems may be overblown, but his lack of jump-shooting prowess hurts. Pondexter also probably doesn't have reliable NBA 3-pt range. Robinson reminds me of another Darius Miles. So I would probably say James of those four, but haven't seen much of him (or Pondexter for that matter).

[yavozerb]

Do you have someone in mind, or just in general think that a big man would be a better selection than the SF/gaurds that would be left?
I say this cause if there is a run on sf's then a couple of bigs should fall in the process and may be rated higher than the remaining sf's on the board for the spurs and another big will be needed (with or without splitter). Sanders, Orton, and Alabi are the 3 that could be had at #20. Sanders would my top choice between these 3 cause of his defensive skills and his 7'5 wingspan would be greatly appreciated here in SA .

[Chieflion]

do you have the list with all the athletic tests? could you post it? thanks!

Here are the guys in the combine. It is on ESPN insider, but it is a little tough to read it like this.

NBA DRAFT COMBINE MEASUREMENTS
Player - No step vert - Max vert - Bench press (185 lbs) - Lane agility - 3/4 court sprint
Solomon Alabi 22.5 26.0 10 13.2 3.68
Cole Aldrich 23.0 28.0 10 11.48 3.35
Aminu, Al-Farouq 27.0 33.5 13 11.29 3.3
James Anderson 30.0 35.5 14 11.86 3.19
Luke Babbitt 29.5 37.5 15 10.98 3.4
Eric Bledsoe -N-a -N-a 9 -N-a -N-a
Trevor Booker 31.0 36.0 22 11.15 3.1
Craig Brackins 26.0 35.0 6 11.65 3.39
Avery Bradley 31.5 37.5 2 11.47 3.14
Derrick Caracter 25.0 30.5 22 12.78 3.61
Sherron Collins 27.5 33.0 -N-a 12.31 3.24
DeMarcus Cousins 23.5 27.5 -N-a 11.4 3.55
Jordan Crawford 31.5 34.5 7 11.03 3.37
Ed Davis 31.0 36.0 -N-a 11.7 3.21
Devin Ebanks 23.5 32.0 6 11.69 3.44
Derrick Favors 31.5 35.5 14 11.74 3.25
Keith Gallon 23.5 28.5 14 13.44 3.7
Charles Garcia 24.5 30.5 2 11.65 3.23
Paul George -N-a -N-a 4 -N-a -N-a
Luke Harangody 24.0 28.5 23 11.83 3.41
Manny Harris -N-a -N-a 11 -N-a -N-a
Lazar Hayward 31.0 36.0 15 10.87 3.31
Gordon Hayward 30.5 34.5 10 11.73 3.22
Xavier Henry 28.5 36.5 8 11.1 3.18
Darington Hobson 29.0 34.0 -N-a 11.68 3.25
James, Damion 29.0 33.0 13 10.89 3.2
Armon Johnson 31.5 38.5 18 11.25 3.19
Wesley Johnson 32.0 37.0 16 11.43 3.14
Dominique Jones 26.0 32.5 19 10.88 3.31
Jerome Jordan -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Sylven Landesberg 28.0 32.0 8 11.59 3.36
Gani Lawal 27.0 31.5 20 11.61 3.24
Greg Monroe 25.0 29.0 15 12.1 3.35
Daniel Orton 24.0 30.5 13 12.32 3.39
Artsiom Parakhouski 25.5 26.5 16 12.07 3.33
Patrick Patterson 28.5 33.5 17 11.14 3.25
Dexter Pittman -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Andy Rautins 23.5 30.5 8 11.27 3.49
Ryan Richards 25.0 28.5 4 11.33 3.37
Stanley Robinson -N-a 37.5 6 11.65 3.23
Larry Sanders 25.5 28.0 7 12.49 3.27
Jon Scheyer -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Lance Stephenson 27.0 33.0 10 11.39 3.38
Mikhail Torrance 23.0 32.0 8 11.43 3.17
Evan Turner 27.5 34.5 9 11.06 3.27
Ekpe Udoh 31.0 33.5 10 11.15 3.29
Jarvis Varnado 29.5 32.5 3 11.61 3.37
Greivis Vasquez -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
John Wall 30.0 39.0 -N-a 10.84 3.14
Willie Warren 23.0 31.5 10 11.21 3.5
Terrico White 31.0 40.0 10 11.38 3.15
Hassan Whiteside 27.0 31.5 12 11.83 3.54

[mountainballer]

in some other posts it has been mentioned, that many of our discussed options will be gone before #20.
meanwhile I'm pretty sure it will be like this. unfortunately it seems as if it's the Spurs target SF group that moves up fastest.

I think it's like that:
to get a shot at either Henry or Paul we would need the #12 pick from Grizzlies.
(probably on the market)
to get a shot at either Hayward or Babbitt we will need the #16 pick from Wolves. (for sure on the market)
at #20 we can likely choose from Pondexter, James, Ebanks, Robinson.
the question will be, if a pick from another pool doesn't deliver a better talent, even if he isn't a SF. Anderson, D. Jones, Sanders, Bradley, Bledsoe, E.Williams, Seraphin.
btw. if the Spurs can't get a SF, I see a good chance they go with Seraphin, because he seems like the only good stash option and to keep him in Europe for two years and bring him in when Dice (and Tim?) are retired and Blair and Splitter have established themself.

[Bruno]

IMO, trading down is a better solution.

Drafting a guard at #20 would be a waste. Unless Spurs do something unexpected like trading Parker or Hill, this player would be caught in a log jam for years. On the big man front, only Sanders seems interesting. I'm not a fan drafting and stashing Séraphin with a that high pick.

If Pondexter has really missed the combine because of an injury and not because of a promise, it has hurt his draft stock. He should be available very late in the first round pick. Trading down to get Pondexter and something else would be nice. And because of the rookie salary scale, Spurs would also save some money by doing so.

[mountainballer]

trading down with Memphis for #25 and #28 is definitely an option, as reports have told that Grizzlies are willing to talk about any of their 3 picks.
what about draft Pondexter at #25 and pick and stash Seraphin with #28?

Ponderxters stock has been hurt for the mocks. not sure if teams see that either. they of course do the same tests and measurements in their private work outs. so they have the comparison. mocks don't have it and they also have a tendency to take no news as bad news about a player and cool down on them.

[Bruno]

trading down with Memphis for #25 and #28 is definitely an option, as reports have told that Grizzlies are willing to talk about any of their 3 picks.
what about draft Pondexter at #25 and pick and stash Seraphin with #28?


There are a lot of possibilities with trading down. It could be for a lower pick and another pick in this draft, a future pick, cash or even a player with a low salary.

You scenario of #25 + #28 for #20 is a possibility. Memphis could draft a guard they really like at #20. I'm not sure that Séraphin will be there at #28. IMO, there is a strong chance Thunder pick him at #26. Thunder have a lot of young players under contract and they also have #21. drafting and stashing a player with their second first round pick makes a lot of sense for them.

[Mr Bones]

do you have the list with all the athletic tests? could you post it? thanks!

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

[DesignatedT]

James Anderson it is.