Stein: Spurs could take new directions

[duncan228]

Spurs could take new directions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=spurs-sunsgame3-100508)
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Tim Duncan was sitting on the corridor floor, with Gregg Popovich standing over him, two unquestioned champions presumably trying to make sense of what had just happened to the team that just last week was being hailed as the most fearsome No. 7 seed in history.

You couldn't get close enough to hear what they were saying. Yet you could safely assume that this was not the way they expected the Phoenix Suns to finally get their vengeance.

The sight of Duncan and Popovich commiserating in a hallway outside the Spurs' locker room was the chilling picture Goran Dragic left in his wake late Friday night, after shredding the San Antonio Spurs like they belonged in his Slovenian league back home. The Suns still have to win one more game to say they've at last beaten Team Duncan in a playoff series for the first time in five tries, but good luck finding someone willing to pick these Spurs to become the first team in NBA history to recover from a 3-0 deficit after the 23-point highlight reel Dragic assembled in the final 12 minutes.

Never in the Duncan era have the Spurs sounded as bewildered in defeat as they sounded after this 110-96 Game 3 pounding, which marked the first time in Pop's 14-season reign that San Antonio surrendered 110 points in three straight games in the postseason.

Never did they imagine missing seven straight free throws in the first half to throw away their early momentum, ultimately blowing all of an 18-point lead and then fading away in crunch time against the speed of a tiny, sub-filled, drive-and-kick lineup ... while Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Jason Richardson led the cheers from the Suns' bench.

Someone asked Duncan, before he made it out to his impromptu meeting with his coach in the hall, how surprised he was by all of this.

"I still am," Duncan said.

Exasperated teammate Manu Ginobili added: "It was kind of embarrassing. ... It's really hard not only because of the fact that we are down 3-0 [but because of] the way they are beating us.

"In the first game, we fouled too much and they [scored] too much in transition. In Game 2, they stopped running but they beat us on offensive rebounds. Tonight we didn't foul them, they didn't beat us on the offensive boards, Amare scored seven points and they killed us anyway. That's the tough part to swallow."

That's actually only one slice of the unsavory stuff the Spurs have to digest. There's more. Lots more.

The short-term problem: Tony Parker, making his first start of the playoffs in this Game 3, landed hard on his shoulder after a second-quarter collision with Stoudemire -- with the hosts still up 16 -- and will undergo an MRI on Saturday to determine his status for Sunday's Game 4.

The long-term issue, meanwhile, is how to proceed roster-wise after the Suns finish the Spurs off, which looms as an inevitability no matter how jittery Suns fans are when it comes to San Antonio, even with a 3-0 cushion.

Owner Peter Holt sanctioned the offseason acquisitions of Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess, pushing his payroll into the $80 million range, because he believed the Duncan-Ginobili-Parker triumvirate was still a title contender if healthy. A six-game dismissal of the Spurs' longtime rivals from Dallas in the first round had finally begun to convince Holt that the investments were worth it, but the grittier-than-ever Suns' ability to grind out wins in the past two games when San Antonio shut down their running game has instead spawned the suggestion that the No. 2-seeded Mavericks would have taken out the aging No. 7 seeds if Dallas coach Rick Carlisle had simply unleashed his Dragic -- rookie guard Rodrigue Beaubois -- as so many Mavs fans lobbied for back in Big D.

Sources with knowledge of the team's thinking say the Spurs are increasingly optimistic about their ability to inject their front line with some new blood by convincing Brazilian forward Tiago Splitter -- whom they drafted in 2007 -- to leave the European game to come to the NBA starting next season. Yet it remains to be seen how aggressive San Antonio feels it'll have to be about reshaping the rest of the roster after Jefferson's season of struggle, with Parker -- unpalatable as it sounds -- ranking as its best trade asset. The Frenchman has only one season left on his contract ($13.5 million) after this season and, according to a recent report in the San Antonio Express-News, has told friends that he's unsure about his future in town after the contract extension recently bestowed upon Ginobili and with second-year guard George Hill capable of playing the same position.

First, though, the Spurs are going to have to get over this thorough humbling at home. Which certainly didn't sound imminent as you listened to various Spurs describe the problems they had dealing with the guard penetration and pick-and-roll success Phoenix manufactured at the start of the decisive fourth quarter with a group of Grant Hill, Jared Dudley, Channing Frye, Leandro Barbosa and Dragic on the floor.

"We are going to have to play the perfect game," Ginobili said of possibly stealing Game 4, after the Spurs slipped into a 3-0 hole for just the third time in the history of the franchise.

"They just killed us."

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I personally don't see Holt going deep pocket this time around. I think there is a lot of trading value in the current roster and maybe getting lucky again at the draft. Other than that, I'm not sure how much can the Spurs improve going forward. We'll see.

[SinBAD]

Holt said he's not trading parker.I dont think its a good move to trade parker.Keep him and trade the expiring contract of RJ at the deadline.meanwhile add defenders and 3 point shooters.

[exstatic]

With Tim and Manu increasingly less able to manufacture their own easy baskets, we really need a true PG. Sorry, Church of Tony, he isn't one. We need someone who can totally manage the half court offense, and Tony just isn't that guy. Too bad that the Hornet's lecherous owner just sold. We probably could have plucked Paul from them, just because Parker's contract is so short, and Collison played so well and only needs a little more mentoring.

[DJ Mbenga]

after lebron 2010 contest jefferson's expiring will no longer be sought after

[exstatic]

after lebron 2010 contest jefferson's expiring will no longer be sought after

It's not about FA's, it's about every team shedding contracts to try to get under the looming hard cap in the summer of 2011, coincidentally, the same time RJ's contract expires.

[HarlemHeat37]

With Tim and Manu increasingly less able to manufacture their own easy baskets, we really need a true PG. Sorry, Church of Tony, he isn't one. We need someone who can totally manage the half court offense, and Tony just isn't that guy. Too bad that the Hornet's lecherous owner just sold. We probably could have plucked Paul from them, just because Parker's contract is so short, and Collison played so well and only needs a little more mentoring.

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Agloco]

Holt said he's not trading parker.I dont think its a good move to trade parker.Keep him and trade the expiring contract of RJ at the deadline.meanwhile add defenders and 3 point shooters.

You do know that TP expires next year as well right?

[dbestpro]

If you trade Parker you need a deal that takes RJ with him.

[The Truth #6]

Pretty good article, but the Roddy Buckets reference was pure speculation by Stein, a Mavs fan, passing it off as news.

For next year, I can easily Dice retiring. He's only in it for the post season and who knows if we'll make the playoffs next year - everything is wide open.

So, I can see Dice, RMJ, and Bonner all gone. 50/50 with Ian for a minimum contract. RC has lots of work to do this off-season. I don't see Splitter coming over. We have a lockout on the horizon. This instability could dissuade him, and who knows how much he wants to make. Everyone assumes he's coming, but we went through this dance with Scola before.

Buyout RJ if possible. Trade Parker. And stop doing trades with the Phoenix Suns if possible.

[BackHome]

If you can do a sign and trade for equal value then do it but us shedding payroll is not going to help us. Also for the fact that this summer you have a whole lot of teams who are going to have a lot of money to throw at Lebron, Bosh , Amare, Wade. So going into the summer of 2011 you have Tony Parker is rated the number one free agent that summer....

[The Truth #6]

If you trade Parker you need a deal that takes RJ with him.

I disagree. Forcing RJ into a deal limits actually getting something good in return, which sort of kills the point of the trade.

Either we eat RJ's contract, trade him at the deadline, or buy him out.

[Ignignokt]

You know what... Jefferson is the best worst player we've ever had.

Jefferson limits our options. Becuase Jefferson is a bitch on the second team we must have him as a starter which means we have to take out our best penetrator and sure scorer and send him to the bench. More than not, he's like the shittiest of the capable slashers and has worst shooting % than hill, gino and parker, so he's basically useless. Compound that with the fact that he f's up rotations, and we have a waste of 15 mill.


jefferson is what killed us, not Ghill, Gino's nose, Duncan's knees, or Parkers nation of origin. Because of jefferson, we had to change our offense composition and we stopped playing our game, which is slash score and or dish to corner 3.

Replace jefferson with 2 guards who are shooters and we are set.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I can't imagine not having Parker on this team.

[Ignignokt]

I can't imagine not having Parker on this team.

me neither. That's why jefferson should leave at all cost.

Because of jefferson, we had to bench tony. Any move that suggest you should bench your best scorer is suicide.

[DPG21920]

Spurs are screwed from a title contender standpoint until Duncan retires. Then the "semi-rebuilding" begins, because they have already started a little bit of that.

[Ignignokt]

Spurs are screwed from a title contender standpoint until Duncan retires. Then the "semi-rebuilding" begins, because they have already started a little bit of that.

lol no.

[DPG21920]

lol no.

lol yes. Look at their financial situation and how far they are from a true contender.

[DPG21920]

Spurs will still be a very competitive team, but just not a "true" contender. The only way that changes is if Hill, Blair and another surprising young player (Malik, Temple, Ian, Tiago...) steps up can add to the bench.

Then they would have to hope for a very solid low end signing to pan out like (Bell...).

Then they would need a very solid trade. At that point, they might give themselves a shot.

Then they would have to resign TP.

[J_Paco]

With Tim and Manu increasingly less able to manufacture their own easy baskets, we really need a true PG. Sorry, Church of Tony, he isn't one. We need someone who can totally manage the half court offense, and Tony just isn't that guy. Too bad that the Hornet's lecherous owner just sold. We probably could have plucked Paul from them, just because Parker's contract is so short, and Collison played so well and only needs a little more mentoring.

You keep making the suggestion of trading Parker, but for who? There aren't any available "true" point guards. I didn't see these stupid suggestions when Parker was dropping 22/7 and was arguably the best player on the team.

[Ignignokt]

lol yes. Look at their financial situation and how far they are from a true contender.

lol.... no. Richardson is our financial disaster. Nice try.

[Ignignokt]

rofl! i said Richardson.

[DPG21920]

lol.... no. Richardson is our financial disaster. Nice try.

What? Explain yourself.

[Ignignokt]

What? Explain yourself.

my second post indicates i meant Jefferson. Jefferson is 15 mill, and doesn't fit our system. He's the reason we aren't going to be contenders if we don't trade him away.

Duncan is still our best player and deserves that money.

[DPG21920]

my second post indicates i meant Jefferson. Jefferson is 15 mill, and doesn't fit our system. He's the reason we aren't going to be contenders if we don't trade him away.

Duncan is still our best player and deserves that money.

What the f does that have to do with my post saying the Spurs are screwed from a financial standpoint and that they won't be a true contender more than likely because of it?

Even if we trade him away, we are still far from a true contender.

Yes, Duncan does deserve the money, but that does not change the fact the Spurs are caught in-between of being a contender and rebuilding because of the financial situation.

[DPG21920]

I also was not saying the Spurs were screwed because of Tim's salary. I said they won't be contenders or be able to fully rebuild until Tim is done. Tim being done coincides with a lot of people being done. I am fine with that.

[michaelwcho]

What is the difference between the Suns and Spurs? Are Nash, Stoud, and Richardson better than Duncan, Parker, Ginobili? No. That's a pretty solid 3 on 3 game, but I like our chances there.

The difference is the role players. How did they get better role players than us? Luck of the draw, maybe, or maybe Kerr is a genius and our FO are dunces, who knows. It wasn't because PHX spent a boatload of cash or high draft picks on these guys, they just got the right guys. Mason, Bonner, and RJ haven't pulled close to their weight, and Hill and Blair have not yet, either. The gap could be closed with a little luck in the trade/free agency market and improvement from the young guys.

But I don't think shuffling role players will help us against LA. As long as they have those octopi waving their tentacles around in the paint, they will be really tough to beat.

[doobs]

Once Tony gets slower, he's going to suck. He's already begun to decline. Look at AI.

He's not going to be effective in his 30s like Nash and Kidd.

[DPG21920]

Also, I am very excited to see how the FO responds. When I say the contender status is likely over, that is just me as the fan trying to be realistic. But we have a fantastic FO and I am very eager to see how they proceed.

There is still a tiny little beacon of hope that dwells within me, and this is a great challenge for the FO in the next year or two.

[clubalien]

You keep making the suggestion of trading Parker, but for who? There aren't any available "true" point guards. I didn't see these stupid suggestions when Parker was dropping 22/7 and was arguably the best player on the team.

the one trade offer that is on the table is hill+blair for amare. I don't recall any real offers for tony, but you have to think if hill can get amare tony should get something. If even just a pick.

[DPG21920]

the one trade offer that is on the table is hill+blair for amare. I don't recall any real offers for tony, but you have to think if hill can get amare tony should get something. If even just a pick.

That offer was likely never on the table (it would be hell financially to match salaries unless they would take RJ).

It most certainly is not longer there, if it ever was.

[beachwood]

Although it would be hard to come to terms with, I think TP will be traded this summer. He's our biggest asset. Look at the landscape of the NBA. Teams are stacked and young.

It's not longer a viable strategy to surround the big three with adequate role players. We need more than just a spot up shooter or a lock down defender. We are not one good role player or a 4th banana away from a championship.

TD + Manu + TP + GH + RJ + Blair is not the nucleus of a championship team. Good enough to get out of the first round in the future? Possibly. But the reality is it's going to take a lot more to win a 5th ring. A lot more.

[ploto]

For next year, I can easily Dice retiring.

Dice has 2 years left on his deal. He is guaranteed $5M next season. The following summer is when he will retire and take his partial guarantee for the final year of his contract- just like Bowen did.

[clubalien]

I say win this championship for dice
that should be our motto

[beachwood]

Once Tony gets slower, he's going to suck. He's already begun to decline. Look at AI.

He's not going to be effective in his 30s like Nash and Kidd.

Exactly. Right on. I love TP, but the reason Nash and Kidd are having long careers is because their games are not one dimensional.

TP is pretty one dimensional and he hasn't added anything to his arsenal in the past few years; just the jump shot.

[SenorSpur]

Let's not forget that Pop insisted and forced Tony to be the aggressive scoring guard he has become. Obviously that worked and was extremely successful for many years. However, we now see how the consequences of TP's aggressive scoring mentality has come at the expense of developing his playmaking skills. Pop has to assume some of the blame for TP's one-dimensional development. That is the reason Manu has had to assume the role as team's best and only playmaker.

All that said, I'm a bit iffy on whether Tony should stay or go. They certainly do need his offense. However, if the Spurs are able to fashion a trade where they can get a very good player or two, it would make sense. The Spurs are certainly in need of players that are capable of creating offense for themselves - not those who simply stand around the perimeter.

[pjjrfan]

Well, Pop and Timmy had an even lower point in thier careers game four of the WCF in 2001. The similiarities are stunning, instead of an old tim they had an old Porter and Avery trying to match up with Kobe and Fisher. They had a bunch of old guys who couldn't cut it or hit shots. I'll wait to see what they do in game 4, but with Manu around I just don't see this team laying down for anyone. They may get beat but they will go down fighting. I don't think we'll see a 40 pt. blowout like the one in LA in 2001.Well, at least I hope not.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Parker should have another contract's worth of effectiveness before his speed fades.


I dread the days in the future when his speed is gone.

[crc21209]

Parker should have another contract's worth of effectiveness before his speed fades.


I dread the days in the future when his speed is gone.

+1. TP's speed is good enough for another 3-4 years at least..

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't mind listening to a trade for Parker, but there really isn't a good deal out there..I don't know why so many people are convinced that trading him will bring something good in return..hearing suggestions like Bosh and Bynum is just ridiculous and the usual SpursTalk dreaming..

[mingus]

i'm quite optimistic about this team to be able to go into next year as a contending team. despite what other people may think, i think our core of Manu, Parker, Tim can lead us to the promise land. it's RJ, really, that is the problem. when one of YOUR STARTERS just doesn't fit with the Spurs system, defensively or offensively, it is a huge problem. they'll need to bring a guy in that can play lock-down type defense, and hit the three. Daren Affalo played that role well for the nuggets this year, and he'd be great for the Spurs. Another guy is Martell Webster. having a guy that can spread the floor at the 3 is essential because it opens up the lane, and the Spurs two most important players' offensive games is predicated on being able to penetrate. obviously, Tiago would be great as well. the lack of three ball and perim. defense absolutely did this team in though. they'll need to go back to what made them successful instead of making knee-jerk reactions like getting RJ when he doesn't fit the system.

[Buddy Holly]

Trade a package of Jefferson and Parker, that's pretty much the only way to unload Jefferson for talent, package him with TP.

Maybe a sign and trade with Toronto for Bosh and Turk?

[Waps1980]

You know what... Jefferson is the best worst player we've ever had.

Jefferson limits our options. Becuase Jefferson is a bitch on the second team we must have him as a starter which means we have to take out our best penetrator and sure scorer and send him to the bench. More than not, he's like the shittiest of the capable slashers and has worst shooting % than hill, gino and parker, so he's basically useless. Compound that with the fact that he f's up rotations, and we have a waste of 15 mill.


jefferson is what killed us, not Ghill, Gino's nose, Duncan's knees, or Parkers nation of origin. Because of jefferson, we had to change our offense composition and we stopped playing our game, which is slash score and or dish to corner 3.

Replace jefferson with 2 guards who are shooters and we are set.
What? So its RJs fault that our 3 point game has turned to shit, that our usual TP penetrate and dish out for 3 doesn't work are you trippin?
Is it RJs fault the bench isn't scoring points (beyond our 6th man), It must be his fault Mason had a shit year and that Bonner can't play to save his life, and why Ian gets no playing time.

Stop pointing the finger, all this hate is directed at his 15mil contract which you can't hate him for.
If he stays he will play at a much higher level next year, the last 3 months have been a lot better and he's starting to fit with TP.

There are a lot of fingers being pointed right now to to point solely at RJ is a load of crap and you all know it. He was a bust but only because of out system, he's not and never will be the 4th go to guy. When TP was out he was 3rd go to guy and started to turn his season round.

[ducks]

rj off the bench
start manau duncan and tp
hill and rj off the bench let them develop chemistry all season
and stick with that lineup in postseason

sorry rj is not going anwhere
rj off the bench without the big three will not distrupt the spurs big three

[bdictjames]

This is the wheel of fortune. Sometimes you're up, unfortunately the Spurs are looking down, with the Big Three aging and no one really clear to step up in a superstar role, that the great Tim Duncan has given for the past 12-13 years.

[wildbill2u]

With Tim and Manu increasingly less able to manufacture their own easy baskets, we really need a true PG. Sorry, Church of Tony, he isn't one. We need someone who can totally manage the half court offense, and Tony just isn't that guy. Too bad that the Hornet's lecherous owner just sold. We probably could have plucked Paul from them, just because Parker's contract is so short, and Collison played so well and only needs a little more mentoring.

It seems to me that the decision by Pop to 'turn over the reins to Tony" was a mistake because Parker isn't a true PG. With Pop calling the plays our offense was more varied. With Parker in charge he's calling his own number more often in a reprise of Steve Francis--ie. dribble around until I can get my shot.

I don't know that this will fix the Spurs but it might be a piece of the puzzle. What do you think?

[MannyIsGod]

It seems to me that the decision by Pop to 'turn over the reins to Tony" was a mistake because Parker isn't a true PG. With Pop calling the plays our offense was more varied. With Parker in charge he's calling his own number more often in a reprise of Steve Francis--ie. dribble around until I can get my shot.

I don't know that this will fix the Spurs but it might be a piece of the puzzle. What do you think?

You guys are so clueless sometimes it hurts my head.

[WalterBenitez]

Interesting.. If Tony leaves SAS, please leva Eva with us.

[alchemist]

If you get rid of Parker you may as well start rebuilding.

[Josepatches_]

Ok,you don't want to trade Parker but what can we do???? How we can be a tittle contender again??? We aren't going to win with these boys. Can someone tell me what can we do??

Duncan will be worse next year,Manu isn't going to be better.
You can trade Mason,Bonner,Jefferson....all them but that's not enough.

Maybe Splitter could be enough in 2008 or 2009 but we will be in 2011.Duncan at 35.Manu one year older too.Every year we will be shorter.

So if we still want to be one of the best teams of the league we will need a big trade.


Yes,keep everybody except garbage like Mason or Bonner but they aren't the reason because we are worse than Lakers,Cavs or Magic.

Trade Tim? The only real big we have? No,thanks.We need help in the frontcourt now.Without Tim we'll need a miracle.
Imo trade Manu or trade Parker is the only way

[ducks]

what you do is start over and build with tp,blair and hill
spurs were foolish to resign manu

now package rj and duncan together

trade manu for a young star...