This is a good reminder of ...

[timvp]

This is a good reminder of how hard it is to win a championship ... much less four championships. Not only do you need a great team, you need to avoid running into a team that is on fire that shoots like 80% on buzzer beating three-pointers for the entire series. You also need to avoid broken noses, shoulder-jarring fouls and unexplainable free throw woes.

This year's loss isn't too painful considering the Spurs weren't going to beat the Lakers and whoever came out of the East. It just wasn't going to happen. This team was running on fumes after having to play all out since March just to ensure a place in the playoffs ... without the benefit of decent depth.

That said, I am disappointed with the sweep. Give the Suns credit but these teams were too close in talent to justify a sweep. In my humble opinion, the series was lost in Game 1 after the Spurs couldn't sustain their numerous runs and instead handed the contest to the Suns. That allowed Phoenix to get confidence and proceed to live up to their explosive potential.

Going into this season, I had a lot of hope for these Spurs. The offseason went perfect. Everything seemed to be in line for a solid run in the playoffs. I can't really say I'm proud of what they accomplished based on preseason expectations, although I am proud that they recovered from the midseason mediocrity that made getting out of the first round look like a longshot.

Thankfully, I fully believe the window is open for at least another season. Tim Duncan is still one of the best at his position. Manu Ginobili appears to be recovered from his leg injuries and has returned to stardom. Tony Parker has to have better luck next season when it comes to injuries. The youngsters, namely George Hill, DeJuan Blair and hopefully Tiago Splitter, should give the Spurs the horses they need to improve upon what we saw this season.

I'll remember this year as the season the Spurs needed to begin their transition away from being able to rely on Bruce Bowen. History won't remember Bowen as an all-time great but there's no doubt that the last three championships relied on a unique formula that included the best perimeter defender in the game who could spread the court on the other end with his three-point shot. Even though Richard Jefferson was an improvement on paper, his skillset is so different that it made it nearly impossible to transition in one season.

Getting number five is going to be difficult. Chances are it won't happen. The Big 3 probably has too many miles on their tires. The young players probably won't be able to develop quickly enough. But I have hope. I like the team's character. I believe that winning is everyone's main goal. With a few offseason moves and better luck next year at this time, things could be much different ... for the fifth time.

Thanks to the Spurs and Spurs fans for another entertaining season. Stay thirsty.

[EricB]

Agreed the team had zero luck all year. There were no wins were u could say that was luck or just a special night. The bench needs more firepower and just an overall defensive jolt. Hopefully splitter comes and a damn good starting forward or two guard can be found in the draft...

[m33p0]

we need better wing players

[Brazil]

nice post !

We will be there next season, the big 3 will continue together for a couple of last runs.

Go spurs Go

[NewJerSpur]

I think the series took a turn for the worse when Dudley went off on us in the 2nd quarter of Game 2 and singlehandedly kept Phoenix is the game when they were down by double digits....that's when it appeared the old psychological advantage the Spurs had over the Suns was not going to rear it's head this series.

I agree that winning a championship isn't easy, and there are many things that have to go right to make that happen.....hell, we need Manu to go insane to get to the point we got to. Hopefully we keep building on the young core to take the pressure off the Big 3 and get a few pieces with those intangibles that can carry you in the clutch...also hope that whoever comes back adds another dimension to their game in the offseason.

Looking forward to the offseason.

[samikeyp]

It could be worse....there are a bunch of fanbases who would be happy just to make the playoffs once in a while. Getting swept sucks but it beats not being there at all.

:toast.

[MannyIsGod]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

[polandprzem]

Stay thirsty my friend


Agreed on that it's tough to win a championship - so many things must to come together. From injuries to being hot at the right time. To have guys step up. To have good matchups in the playoffs.

[ploto]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

[carina_gino20]

Our bench consisted of Manu Ginobili, then Tony Parker. Tough to win when tha's all you have.

Hopefully, they'll get a little bit lucky this offseason and find all those missing pieces.

[Stringer_Bell]

I agree, the uphill climb to the Finals looked really daunting after the Mavs series and when you think about giving another 6-7 games to beat the Suns...one has to wonder what is left for the Lakers or Cavs/Magic. A Championship run is a huge accomplishment and takes a deep team to make it through all 16 wins.

So yea, it's a good reminder of how much the Spurs have accomplished and what it takes to get back on top. :toast

[MannyIsGod]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

:lol

How can a championship be fools gold?

[elbamba]

I'll remember this year as the season the Spurs needed to begin their transition away from being able to rely on Bruce Bowen. History won't remember Bowen as an all-time great but there's no doubt that the last three championships relied on a unique formula that included the best perimeter defender in the game who could spread the court on the other end with his three-point shot.

Amen to this. Bowen's ability to lock down the best player on the other team made it easy to dominate 4th quarters, something the Spurs did not do in any game this series.

[DPG21920]

I am very worried about Manu. He is certainly capable of being dominant in spurts, but I am not sure if it can be a sustained thing. Same with Tim.

I really think if RJ opted out (which is not happening), the Spurs could get worse on paper, but better on court if they got a defensive minded 3 who could actually shoot. Even if he does not opt out, if they can find that player (Bell?), they can move RJ to the bench with Manu which worked out very well and start TP and Hill all year.

Spurs definitely need to stay healthy and set rotations earlier.

[silverblk mystix]

just one thing I am really confused about...

trying to build---or rebuild a team is an arduous process and in the last few years--matchups are what it is all about...

so where do you go???

small with deadly shooters like the suns?

long--long front line like the lakers?

...and when you do decide which way to go...

it is like shooting at a moving target because by the time you put together a team that you believe can matchup with the best teams---

you end up facing a team in the playoffs that is a nightmare matchup for you

the spurs appeared to finally match-up well against the lakers---by having TD & Dice defending---and maybe putting bonner on artest and RJ on odumb---

but the spurs run into phoenix....

so where do you go---how will the spurs front office try to revamp this time???

...and to look back a little---the spurs finally figured out the mavs---only to run into another matchup nightmare...

really hard to figure...

[DPG21920]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

You are a terrible poster sometimes.

[wijayas]

Well said timvp!!!!!!!!!!

[polandprzem]

And yea - nothing was going spurs way during this series.
No bench, no hustle, hesitation, not having weapon we always had against suns, zero 3-point threat


ohh well at least i do not have to worry about not being able to see the second half of the game 5 that was scheduled @4:30am
And now maybe I will get some decent sleep to survive this next tough week for me.


thanks guys

[ploto]

How can a championship be fools gold?

Spurs thought the team was better constructed than it was and that off-season made no real moves to improve the team. Instead they re-signed Bonner and traded Scola away. They also traded Beno for nothing.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

I don't think it matters.

I think for The Fifth Reign we need a deep quality athletic bench. And if we have that, we can seriously give Ginobili the Robert Horry treatment and just pussy foot with him all season then have him be Super Manu for the playoffs.

As long as we know he can be that guy for a 20-30 game period, that is an awesome weapon to have on your team, and I'm damn glad he's with us.

[NewJerSpur]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

We're going to find out. I'm assuming he's going back to the bench.

[exstatic]

:lol

How can a championship be fools gold?

It didn't include Rasho. Please try to keep up with her various hatreds.

[JMarkJohns]

I always appreciate your post-game reads. I have debated to even say anything, as I understand posting tendencies in defeat. It's disappointing and most times your soften the blow of the defeat through certain phrases, but...


In my humble opinion, the series was lost in Game 1 after the Spurs couldn't sustain their numerous runs and ... handed the contest to the Suns. That allowed Phoenix to get confidence and proceed to live up to their explosive potential.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the underlined portion. With all the turnovers, I can see why you used "handed", but in reality, the defensive techniques the Suns employed worked, and flustered the Spurs. They were employed at random, so the Spurs couldn't expect what was coming, and I think that contributed to the rushed/uncrisp nature of play that led to many turnovers. The Suns played their asses off, and took back leads. Much of the time, it was the second unit.

I'm not here to rub it in. I'm not. Just gotta call it like I see it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am very worried about Manu. He is certainly capable of being dominant in spurts, but I am not sure if it can be a sustained thing. Same with Tim.

Manu proved he can still be a dominant force for a huge chunk of games. More than enough for the playoffs.

He used his juice up too early. And we have a conflagration of factors when you consider the instant-drop-off after the nose injury. Who knows what his performance would have been without the nose injury? It's an excuse but a valid one.

If he can be a guy that can tear it up for a 20-30 game stretch, we need a bench regardless, and we can just Robert Horry him. The RoHo strategy worked for two offseasons it can work again.

[NewJerSpur]

Spurs thought the team was better constructed than it was and that off-season made no real moves to improve the team. Instead they re-signed Bonner and traded Scola away.

Sure glad they didn't bring back Hedo though, otherwise they might not have won 2 more. The Magic sure do look better with Jameer in their instead of him. :p:

[ShoogarBear]

I actually think blowing the huge lead Game 2 was the difference rather than the Game 1 loss, but winning either one of those might have made this a different series.

Truth is, the Spurs have always relied on a psychological advantage against the Suns, who arguably have always had better talent. Also never underestimate the addition by subtraction of Mr. Go-Go-Go "coaching" on the sidelines.

As for next year, I just don't see it. Duncan and Manu are clearly in decline. Even if Tony is healthy, Splitter comes, and Hill and Blair improve, there just will not be that top-level talent to win a ring.

[ploto]

Sure glad they didn't bring back Hedo though...

Hedo left in 2004.

[EricB]

I don't see how Manu is clearly in decline... A better bench makes them not have to work as hard....

[ShoogarBear]

They also traded Beno for nothing.

That was a bargain.

[NewJerSpur]

Hedo left in 2004.

That was my point.

[timvp]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

:lmao @ fool's gold championship

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't see how Manu is clearly in decline... A better bench makes them not have to work as hard....

omg i'm actually agreeing with tpark

[slayermin]

I saw how we lost. I saw why we lost. But I just can't believe we lost. I really thought our team matched up well with the Lakers. Cleveland and Orlando is another story, but I thought we would give the Lakers all they wanted.

For me, losing this series hurts pretty bad. At least it was a quick stab to the gut rather than a stick it in and twist it type of loss. But as crazy as it sounds, I still don't think the Suns are better than the Spurs. They were definitely a bad matchup.

For some reason, broken nose or cold streak, Manu was never the same after game three against Dallas. And I take comfort in the fact that championship number five was never gonna happen unless the Manu we saw end the season and begin the playoffs returned.

At least my vacation plans become simple as I will be spending two weeks in Santa Cruz this summer to forget it all.

Until next year, :flag:

[timvp]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

There's no doubt that the Spurs will have to limit his minutes going forward. I'd like him at 26-28 minutes per game next season. This series was more proof that he's simply not a 35+ minute type of player.

[z0sa]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

That's laughable.

[Manu-of-steel]

Amen timvp. Next year, I'm expecting another run by the spurs for that elusive 5th ring. Manu is clearly hampered by that fractured nose. His 3point shooting NOSE-dived after that hit.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

There's no doubt that the Spurs will have to limit his minutes going forward. I'd like him at 26-28 minutes per game next season. This series was more proof that he's simply not a 35+ minute type of player.

This series or this season?

I think he will still have the ability to go 35+ minutes in a huge chunk of games granted that he did not spend the entire season giving it his all and bailing us out of the regular season.

[exstatic]

Manu cannot both carry a large chunk of the scoring load AND be the closer.

[Borosai]

Championships are so great because of how difficult they are to attain.

Start the season healthy. Get, play and develop younger players to unload some of the weight off the main guys during the regular season. Make becoming the #1 defense in the league your main goal and your identity. That identity will determine the rotation, and stick with it.

The exact opposite of this year.

[ShoogarBear]

I blame the rabies shots.

[Slomo]

I actually think blowing the huge lead Game 2 was the difference rather than the Game 1 loss, but winning either one of those might have made this a different series.

Truth is, the Spurs have always relied on a psychological advantage against the Suns, who arguably have always had better talent. Also never underestimate the addition by subtraction of Mr. Go-Go-Go "coaching" on the sidelines.

As for next year, I just don't see it. Duncan and Manu are clearly in decline. Even if Tony is healthy, Splitter comes, and Hill and Blair improve, there just will not be that top-level talent to win a ring.

I agree, game 2 hurt a lot.

D'antoni was our sixth player, so that hurts too.

[timvp]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the underlined portion. With all the turnovers, I can see why you used "handed", but in reality, the defensive techniques the Suns employed worked, and flustered the Spurs. They were employed at random, so the Spurs couldn't expect what was coming, and I think that contributed to the rushed/uncrisp nature of play that led to many turnovers. The Suns played their asses off, and took back leads. Much of the time, it was the second unit.

The Suns deserve a whole lot of credit. I've never seen a team execute their gameplans against the Spurs better than the Suns did this series. Got damn impressive.

That said, Game 1 is the type of game the Spurs have won throughout the years. Championship level Spurs teams win that game.

[Budkin]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

"Fool's gold" says Raptors fan :lmao

[DPG21920]

I for one am very excited about the FO's opportunity. They are a great FO. I am the type of person that loves a challenge, and I can't wait to see what the Spurs FO has in store for next year and beyond.

I think they will flourish. I am not saying the can make this team into a clear cut contender next year, but I do think they will be cheeky.

[VBM]

:lmao @ fool's gold championship

There is some sense in what that guy was saying. We never reloaded a defending team (we were hell-bent on letting the full title team have a shot at repeating). In 2007, we avoided Dallas (probably would have been our toughest Western foe, even though Denver/Phoenix/Utah wasn't a cakewalk) and Detroit (it took an insane Lebron series for them to lose). I would have rather had Holt spend his cash in Duncan's prime instead of waiting until he's on his last legs.

[EricB]

If you can add two 3 point versatile wings and one good big man to the young core. Than IMO they are championship level again. Better bench means reduced minutes all around.

[timvp]

This series or this season?

I think he will still have the ability to go 35+ minutes in a huge chunk of games granted that he did not spend the entire season giving it his all and bailing us out of the regular season.


Manu cannot both carry a large chunk of the scoring load AND be the closer.

I agree with ex. Manu's minutes caught up to him. When he can't drive past 95-year-old Grant Hill in a do or die fourth quarter, something is wrong. I blame the minutes.

[DPG21920]

When you have to micro manage your players because of age, that automatically puts you in a hole from a championship perspective.

[EricB]

When you have to micro manage your players because of age, that automatically puts you in a hole from a championship perspective.


Not if u have a good bench......

[Kori Ellis]

When you have to micro manage your players because of age, that automatically puts you in a hole from a championship perspective.

They've had to micromanage Manu's minutes for the last five years.

[TD 21]

Extremely well said, timvp. I don't have a single thing to critique with your writeup for once. Good job, man.

[jag]

I wonder if they'll try to deal RJ over the summer or before the deadline once the season starts. Or if they'll keep him altogether....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I agree with ex. Manu's minutes caught up to him. When he can't drive past 95-year-old Grant Hill in a do or die fourth quarter, something is wrong. I blame the minutes.

So you're sayin even if we Robert Horry'ed him in the regular season he'd still be ineffective playing 35+ mins a game in the playoffs?

[ploto]

Why can Nash handle all these minutes that the Spurs players can't? Steve has been playing 33-35 MPG for 10 NBA seasons.

[mingus]

i don't know if Manu's legs were starting to fail him because of age, or if it was the nose thing.

it's obvious that the Big 3 can't generate as much offense as they used to by themselves. i don't quesiton Manu's ability when he's spry, but imo humble opinion his legs just gave out. i don't see how his nose would have affected his driving ability.

that said, i look for blair to refine his game for next year, share some of the low-post scoring load. he was an obvious bright spot for the Spurs this year amidst all the dark. he's only 20 and will only improve. add in, potentially, Splitter and i think the decline of Manu and Tim is compensated for.

[DPG21920]

They've had to micromanage Manu's minutes for the last five years.

Now it is even worse. Now they also have to severely micromanage Tim's minutes as well. That is 2 of the big 3.

It puts you in a hole. It does not make it impossible.

[Manu20]

Here is to the season :toast


Next year should be better with the improvement of hill and blair. And hopefully with the addition of Splitter and a healthy hungry TP.

[DPG21920]

Why can Nash handle all these minutes that the Spurs players can't? Steve has been playing 33-35 MPG for 10 NBA seasons.

Has Nash had the injuries that Tim and Manu have?

[Shastafarian]

Why can Nash handle all these minutes that the Spurs players can't? Steve has been playing 33-35 MPG for 10 NBA seasons.

Your legs don't go as quick when you only play on one end of the court.

[ploto]

Has Nash had the injuries that Tim and Manu have?

spondylolisthesis

[Kori Ellis]

All in all, I don't see how Spurs fans can be that disappointed in this season, or that hopeless for next.

To me:

...if Parker was healthy all year, then Manu wouldn't have been worn down. And if Manu wasn't worn down and Parker was healthy, then the Spurs are in the running for a title. I don't care who the role players are.

...no one expected RJ to be such a bad fit all around. His game didn't fit with the Spurs, and I thought it was obvious that he didn't buy into the Spurs philosophy -- which had to wear on the locker room. Say whatever you want about Bruce Bowen's lack of offense, but he bled the Silver & Black philosophy. So, the Spurs will do whatever they need to do this offseason to get RJ out.

...George Hill made huge strides offensively this year. And though I think he was pretty bad defensively all season, the Spurs should have it figured out now what type of players he CAN guard. And the door should be shut on the idea of making him a starting PG... he averaged 0.8 assists in 34 mpg in the postseason. So next year, let him flourish in the SG role and have someone (Bowen?) work with him this summer on moving his feet defensively.

...Splitter is probably coming over -- and even if he sucks, it's a Bonner-upgrade.

...The Spurs have some good youngsters in guys like Blair and Hairston (and maybe Gee and Temple).

So basically, the Spurs will have to pick up a 2/3 that can defend and shoot the 3, sign Splitter, and maybe pick up a couple more role players. They don't need a major overhaul to contend next season -- they just need the right pieces. Unfortunately they rolled the dice with RJ this year and came up craps. But you can't fault Peter Holt/Pop from trying.

[J_Paco]

When you have to micro manage your players because of age, that automatically puts you in a hole from a championship perspective.

They might not be a title contender, but Alvin Gentry says hello. Having depth makes all this difference when you've got older players. Just look at what it's done to Steve Nash, by having Dragic around they'll extend Nash's career by at least 2 years.


f you can add two 3 point versatile wings and one good big man to the young core. Than IMO they are championship level again. Better bench means reduced minutes all around.

Totally agree, TPark.


Why can Nash handle all these minutes that the Spurs players can't? Steve has been playing 33-35 MPG for 10 NBA seasons.

Maybe because Nash has a quality back-up and only plays one side of the court.

[timvp]

I haven't seen ploto this happy since the earthquake in Haiti . . .

[ShoogarBear]

I haven't seen ploto this happy since the earthquake in Haiti . . .

:lmao Ew jes kant say tings like dat.

[carina_gino20]

George Hill made huge strides offensively this year. And though I think he was pretty bad defensively all season, the Spurs should have it figured out now what type of players he CAN guard. And the door should be shut on the idea of making him a starting PG... he averaged 0.8 assists in 34 mpg in the postseason. So next year, let him flourish in the SG role and have someone (Bowen?) work with him this summer on moving his feet defensively.


Unless he improves immensively in his playmaking ability, I'd much rather see him creating his own shot and driving to the hoop. He's more comfortable with that type, I think. When he has to pull back and set up again from a broken play, he just looks so confused.

[baseline bum]

It didn't include Rasho. Please try to keep up with her various hatreds.

:rollin

[ploto]

I haven't seen ploto this happy since the earthquake in Haiti . . .

To act as if I could ever be happy about death and destruction just shows your real character. This is about a silly game where you put a ball in a basket.

[timvp]

To act as if I could ever be happy about death and destruction just shows your real character. This is about a silly game where you put a ball in a basket.

I was talking about the quaking of the earth, not the death and destruction.

[mytespurs]

Thanks Timvp & Kori! Great analysis as always. You made me feel a tad better this evening-still disappointed the way the Spurs second season ended-no fun getting swept:depressed ......immediate reaction during this series=absolutely zero...I had not positive vibes about the Spurs after the Game 2 loss....in comparison to the Dallas series I had a feeling they would prevail.......I actually had a fantasy of an "oldies" championship series: Spurs vs Celts w/Spurs winning a close game 7....:lol...I know, fool's gold but I guess I was getting hyped, considering I didn't think the Spurs were no longer an "elite" team and wouldn't make the playoffs...glad I was wrong about that...at least the latter.....

At what point do the Spurs start the rebuilding process...not in tanking but bringing in younger players as the big 3 or the big 2, Duncan & Ginobili, age?

And as for trading RJ-who would want him? Or...will he get it and be the player in 2010-11 that the Spurs thought he'd be this season?

Well onto the offseason....Go Spurs 2011! :toast

[ElNono]

I'm proud of the Big 3. The Dallas series was all them + Hill. I also thought they did all they could against the Suns, but their bench was >>>>> our bench. We need to find a better supporting cast, and if we can, move RJ's contract.
I think they all have enough in the tank to give it another shot. They do need some help, and that's going to be the to-do for the FO this summer.
At least we know Tim can still play, Manu is healthy and will be around, and Tony has to heal, but he has fight in him.

Considering I didn't think we had enough, especially defensively, getting to the 2nd round was a big plus. I overly enjoyed having conversations with everyone here, and I want to thank those that produced stuff here regularly, like you, timvp, Duncan228 with the newsposts and the stuff from 48MoH. Now, let's enjoy the offseason, which I'm sure will be again fairly active.

[EricB]

To act as if I could ever be happy about death and destruction just shows your real character. This is about a silly game where you put a ball in a basket.


Damn got called to the carpet and fights back with the it's just a game :lmao

[ducks]

I think pop needs the big three to start
and make hill and jefferson come off the bench and gel

rj does not work with duncan
let rj dominate the ball

he can score

[ShoogarBear]

Manu has to go back to the bench. It's simple math. In order to keep him at 25-30 minutes, but still fresh to play about 8 minutes in the fourth, he can't start.

[DPG21920]

I think TP and Hill should start and RJ and Manu off the bench. They just have to find the right fit at SF to start imo.

[roycrikside]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

His PER was 22.54, which was 12th in the entire NBA. Sure, he didn't always shoot consistently, but this was his best year ever as a passer and I think he actually went to the basket more this year than in '08, then he had his best season ever as a scorer. That Ginobili was just unconscious from three and would never miss an open one. This one was streakier.

In general though, I agree with your point. It's not good, long term, for Manu to have to carry the team for two months like he did in March and April, just like it wasn't good for Timmy to have to carry it in November and December. Tim burned himself out in the first half, and I think Manu also expended too much gas late.

For the Spurs to be a contender next year, they'll need their five or six best players to be fortunate enough to be healthy all year. Tony and Manu need to combine for 140+ regular season games, period, at around a 60 combined mpg. Timmy meanwhile needs to sit out all B2Bs, mandatory. I want him playing about 65 games.

Mainly what this group needs though, is for Hill to take another quantum leap in his development, Blair to work on his defense, and to find a fourth guard they can count on. I don't know if that's Temple, that French guy we drafted last year, some kid we'll draft this year, or what, but it can't be
Bogans or Mason.

At small forward we have to hope and pray that RJ improves in his second year in the system, but I'm very pessimistic. He's just too much of a headcase IMO. Plus, he's not a 3 pt shooter. I think if he's going to be here, then Pop has to spend some time scheming to figure out how to use his strengths and hide his (considerable) weaknesses.

I would also hope that Hairston will be a rotation player next year. I don't like this three guard lineup of TP-Manu-Hill. They do alright on offense, but ultimately it hurts too much on D. Just not much size or rebounding there. I think we need to play a legit SF at all times.

Finally, I hope they re-sign Bonner. Yeah, he's not a great player, but I don't think he's the problem. He fits into our system, he generally shoots pretty well, his offensive game is getting better slowly but surely now that he can put it on the floor a bit, and I think he's still a worthwhile 4th or 5th big. Pop's system calls for a big guy who can hit threes and there simply aren't too many of those guys around. I think Bonner showed good character ending the year with two solid games. A lot of guys would've just gone into the tank and sulked and hanged their head. Bonner competed, no matter what the haters think.

[EricB]

Manu has to go back to the bench. It's simple math. In order to keep him at 25-30 minutes, but still fresh to play about 8 minutes in the fourth, he can't start.

Agreed. Trade or the first round pick need to be that 3 or two guard....

[NewJerSpur]

I think pop needs the big three to start
and make hill and jefferson come off the bench and gel

rj does not work with duncan
let rj dominate the ball

he can score

RJ needs help to score.....he's not dominating anything on his own.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm so old, the Suns finally beat the Spurs in the playoffs w/Duncan.

And, yes, a NBA franchise claiming one championship is difficult. Let alone two. Four places you fourth all time in NBA history, IIRC. If the Spurs don't win anymore w/Duncan, sobeit. It's been quite a ride.

[DDS4]

I think the Western Conference Finals was the best case scenario for this team. There was slim chance of getting past the Lakers anyways.

I truly believe if the Spurs won game 2, it would have been a much different series. Instead, losing that game was a huge mental disappointment. Dragic's outburst was the final dagger.

The Suns really exposed the Spurs weaknesses on the perimeter in addition to a small frontline (which we knew already).

It was just weird to see the Spurs get beat by pretty much their own medicine.

[MannyIsGod]

I just don't see any way the Spurs can make it far with Jefferson on the team..he just causes so much trouble..he absolutely must be traded for the Spurs to go anywhere IMO..they can't limit his minutes because of his name and recognition in the NBA, so he really can't be on the roster..

He doesn't play defense, he doesn't rebound on a consistent basis, he can't spread the floor and he's extremely weak-minded..

I don't mind taking away touches from the core players on the team, but not for Jefferson..he can't create his offense consistently enough, thus making him only useful when he catches and finishes..

I gotta agree. The one play tonight that really summed it up was in the 3rd when Tony goes diving from the elbow and kicks it to RJ when his man doubles. Of course Richard is 4-5 feet inside the 3pt line at this point and the defense recovers so easily.

Bowen in that situation would have just lit the Suns up for another 3. RJ's particular skillset is simply not a fit without the shooting.

[ElNono]

Finally, I hope they re-sign Bonner. Yeah, he's not a great player, but I don't think he's the problem. He fits into our system, he generally shoots pretty well, his offensive game is getting better slowly but surely now that he can put it on the floor a bit, and I think he's still a worthwhile 4th or 5th big. Pop's system calls for a big guy who can hit threes and there simply aren't too many of those guys around. I think Bonner showed good character ending the year with two solid games. A lot of guys would've just gone into the tank and sulked and hanged their head. Bonner competed, no matter what the haters think.

He can't spread the floor. People don't guard him anymore. He suddenly passes shots. He can't rebound for shit. He's been here for 3 seasons. Enough. We need though players out there that play defense, grab boards, and can give Tim a rest during the regular season. I'm tired of hearing about one end of the floor only.

[ElNono]

I just don't see any way the Spurs can make it far with Jefferson on the team..he just causes so much trouble..he absolutely must be traded for the Spurs to go anywhere IMO..they can't limit his minutes because of his name and recognition in the NBA, so he really can't be on the roster..

He doesn't play defense, he doesn't rebound on a consistent basis, he can't spread the floor and he's extremely weak-minded..

I don't mind taking away touches from the core players on the team, but not for Jefferson..he can't create his offense consistently enough, thus making him only useful when he catches and finishes..

We'll see how 'valuable' is his expiring contract... I do think we need to unload him. If we do, we might have some wiggle room to complement the team better.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, he can spread the floor in the regular season. For the vet min and a good chunk of regular seasons minutes I don't see why you don't resign Bonner to be the fifth big. The problem is you can't rely on him in the post season (maybe you can - I know I'll feel like a sucker but he did play well in 3 and 4) but the point is to make a deep enough Spurs bench that you don't have to.

[ShoogarBear]

I still wished they had played the Lakers in the first round. That was the best opportunity for them to get knocked off. Now, I can't see anyone in the West beating them.

[baseline bum]

Jefferson's expiring should give the Spurs the parts to hopefully pry a decent player from a team haemorrhaging money. Like Milwaukee last year. :vomit:

BTW, anyone remember when Laker fan said this was more lopsided than the Gasol deal? :lol

[EricB]

Well, he can spread the floor in the regular season. For the vet min and a good chunk of regular seasons minutes I don't see why you don't resign Bonner to be the fifth big. The problem is you can't rely on him in the post season (maybe you can - I know I'll feel like a sucker but he did play well in 3 and 4) but the point is to make a deep enough Spurs bench that you don't have to.

Agreed again the bonner hate overshadows what's available. Players like the people want are not available. Splitter is the best big man the spurs can hope to get this offseason. Outside of that the best available is guys like bonner...

[ElNono]

Well, he can spread the floor in the regular season. For the vet min and a good chunk of regular seasons minutes I don't see why you don't resign Bonner to be the fifth big. The problem is you can't rely on him in the post season (maybe you can - I know I'll feel like a sucker but he did play well in 3 and 4) but the point is to make a deep enough Spurs bench that you don't have to.

When Pop trots out Bonner, and Splitter is watching from the bench, you'll remember why we needed to get rid of him... :lol

[NewJerSpur]

I still wished they had played the Lakers in the first round. That was the best opportunity for them to get knocked off. Now, I can't see anyone in the West beating them.

I think Orlando might be able to put up a better fight with a healthy Nelson in the swing of things FT this year and no controversy surrounding him playing like last year......that is, IF they get to the finals. I also like the addition of Matt Barnes and even the way Reddick has been playing. Vince Carter would be the wildcard.

[ElNono]

Agreed again the bonner hate overshadows what's available. Players like the people want are not available. Splitter is the best big man the spurs can hope to get this offseason. Outside of that the best available is guys like bonner...

What good is a guy that doesn't show up in the playoffs?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I still wished they had played the Lakers in the first round. That was the best opportunity for them to get knocked off. Now, I can't see anyone in the West beating them.

No doubt dude. Instead of being satisfied with beating our 2nd most hated rival we could have slayed the Beast yet again and totally fucked this Asterisk Dynasty that Kobe is spearheading.

I wanted to bad to post like a madman how we should purposely tank for the lakers but most of this board was all about avoiding them and getting best seed possible.

[Chieflion]

What good is a guy that doesn't show up in the playoffs?

To tell you the truth, better than guys who don't show up at all.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

CBF's best case scenario for the next season:


-The FO somehow miraculously gets RJ to opt out of his contract, then resigns him for a minimum of money to accept a role as a bench player.

-We draft an athlete that can play 2/3

-Blair and Hill improve

-Splitter comes over

-We sign a FA that has a nutsack

Yes I realize the RJ thing is nearly impossible.

[ElNono]

To tell you the truth, better than guys who don't show up at all.

I can agree with that. Hopefully those guys are gone.

[EricB]

What good is a guy that doesn't show up in the playoffs?

Name a big your gonna get after splitter siigns that's better for the minimum?

[HarlemHeat37]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3954.jpg

[EricB]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3954.jpg


Did he get a brain transplant?

[ElNono]

Name a big your gonna get after splitter siigns that's better for the minimum?

Do we have the LLE? For the LLE:
Tony Allen
Joe Smith
Hakim Warrick
Darko Milicic
Amundson

We can also resign Ian, or give a shot to some other kid from the D-league, if we're talking about the 4th or 5th big here. When Splitter, if he comes, has some jitters, which he will have, because it would be his first season, Pop will play Bonner if he has him. I just want him off the roster. He had 3 seasons to show what he's got, and he just doesn't have what it takes. Time to move on.

[ElNono]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3954.jpg

Agree. We're talking the 4th or 5th big here.

[MmP]

Im no fan of blaming JR but it's undeniable that we expected so much of him. I can't believe this season is over. After all we went thru. Man it's sad.

[silverblk mystix]

No doubt dude. Instead of being satisfied with beating our 2nd most hated rival we could have slayed the Beast yet again and totally fucked this Asterisk Dynasty that Kobe is spearheading.

I wanted to bad to post like a madman how we should purposely tank for the lakers but most of this board was all about avoiding them and getting best seed possible.

I said this over and over---good to see the spurs beat the mavs---but I hated it when the spurs avoided the lakers--

I thought that we finally could matchup with the lakers---but that is how it goes---whenever you play that game of avoiding this team or that team---you never know what other team will surprise you...

but, yes I can see how this has really cleared a path for the lakers---and although I hope that the suns beat the lakers---what usually happens is that the suns wilt when they play the lakers

[MmP]

Splitter is no Manu. Manu was unique he came with unique talent in 03. Rare talent with so much passion. You could see that from day one. I don't know if Splitter will solve all our problems. Not every player translate well into nba

Man it's true that we missed Bowen so much.

[MaNu4Tres]

And though I think he was pretty bad defensively all season, the Spurs should have it figured out now what type of players he CAN guard. im a starting PG... he averaged 0.8 assists in 34 mpg in the postseason. So next year, let him flourish in the SG role and have someone (Bowen?) work with him this summer on moving his feet defensively.



That will be harder than you think. I too noticed how bad he is at moving his feet on the defensive end and this worried me when he was drafted due to his agility measurement at the NBA Draft combine.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2008&sort2=ASC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=13

If you look at his agility there you can see it was the worst out of any of the guards in the draft and was equivalent to most of the bigs.

Quick feet and quick agility/lateral movement is a necessary component in order to be a superior defensive player.

Sure players work on this throughout the summer by different plyometric workouts, dot exercises, and running through ladders but it's more of an attribute you either have or don't have once you are already in your athletic prime.

[J_Paco]

One other thing that needs to happen is that Blair needs to play strictly the 4. I really think making him play center hurt his confidence and ability to score inside. If he's playing more power forwards that will allow him to use his strength, quickness and bulk more effectively on offense. Hopefully, Blair also develops a mid-range jumper to make guys play him more honestly.

[EricB]

Do we have the LLE? For the LLE:
Tony Allen
Joe Smith
Hakim Warrick
Darko Milicic
Amundson

We can also resign Ian, or give a shot to some other kid from the D-league, if we're talking about the 4th or 5th big here. When Splitter, if he comes, has some jitters, which he will have, because it would be his first season, Pop will play Bonner if he has him. I just want him off the roster. He had 3 seasons to show what he's got, and he just doesn't have what it takes. Time to move on.

:lmao darko has said he's going to Europe. : lmao at the rest

[MmP]

Darko is staying in Min.

[ElNono]

:lmao darko has said he's going to Europe. : lmao at the rest

If you think averaging 3 rebounds in 20 mins off the bench is comical, then laugh away.
I think we can find somebody else that shows up more than 2 out of 10 playoffs games.

[MaNu4Tres]

BTW one of your best write-ups Timvp IMO. Nice work :tu

[objective]

Darko is staying in Min.

That's the last I had heard as well, that he actually liked how he was treated there and changed his mind about returning to Europe.

[jjktkk]

I said this over and over---good to see the spurs beat the mavs---but I hated it when the spurs avoided the lakers--

I thought that we finally could matchup with the lakers---but that is how it goes---whenever you play that game of avoiding this team or that team---you never know what other team will surprise you...

but, yes I can see how this has really cleared a path for the lakers---and although I hope that the suns beat the lakers---what usually happens is that the suns wilt when they play the lakers

This Suns team doesn't seem the type that will wilt IMO. Yea the old Suns teams would wilt against the Lakers, but the old Suns teams use to wilt against the Spurs too.

[polandprzem]

I agree with ex. Manu's minutes caught up to him. When he can't drive past 95-year-old Grant Hill in a do or die fourth quarter, something is wrong. I blame the minutes.

How can you blame minutes?

He was unable to do this during hole series. What minutes got to do with fresh 1st q manu?

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree with ex. Manu's minutes caught up to him. When he can't drive past 95-year-old Grant Hill in a do or die fourth quarter, something is wrong. I blame the minutes.

Grant Hill just might be one of the best perimeter defender left in the playoffs. 95 years old or not the guy can still defend and hoop.

And Manu not being able to penetrate had more to do with the blitzes and hard hedges on the pick and rolls.

Phoenix's team defense on Parker and Manu's pick and roll was just as good as I've seen. Props to them.

I do think Manu, Tim and Dyess' minutes need to be managed even more cautiously next year. Hopefully that doesn't effect the team's playoff aspirations.

[spurs10]

The team had it's moments toward the end of the season. We even had some great stretches in the Suns series, they just weren't sustainable. Although a lot was said about us finally being healthy in the playoffs, Manu's nose and seemingly Tony's entire body were less than good in the end. Let's hope everybody gets some rest this summer and we pick up considerable stronger in the fall. Thanks timvp and the rest of you true Spurs fans for your insights, both seriously and not-so-seriously. It's been fun!

[polandprzem]

The problem with Manu is that he can try to find his rhythm through 3, 4 months. And he needs minutes to catch it. Then he have few weeks of great play and then he is worned out pretty quickly. That's the scenario if he won't get another injury.

To have any chance we need to sign Splitter no doubt. Also we would need few players that can hit a trey. In phoenix series it occurred that we had none. Hill was shut down and he was the only spot shooter there and of the corner.
Spurs were unable to move the ball. It's tough cause it always starts from Tim. Suns made spurs 'recover' bad passes.

Also - where was the drives to the lane? Actually every p&r was denied. Spurs were running off the clock no ball movement and they were forcing the action

So we need three point shooters and guys that can penetrate. If Manu can't do it effectively one Tony is not enough.

[milkyway21]

Beating the Mavs was almost impossible for us. If we win against the Suns in 7 games it will be hard for us to easily get past young teams Orlando and Cavs.

It amuses me to think that if the CAvs wins the East and then over the Lakers, Shaq might get his 5th ring ahead of Duncan this time. He was quoted last yr when he played for Phoenix he has to win his 5th bling first before Duncan wins his :lol

[timtonymanu]

Great write-up timvp.

Very bipolar season to me. From the start of the regular season up until early April, the Spurs looked like first round exits. Then they started to play better with much more aggression and chemistry. I'm surprised they made it to the 2nd round but the sweep just ruined every surprise I had.

RJ is obviously a bad fit here. Pop tried to turn him into a spot up shooter but that wasnt his game. Still RJ is at fault for being so damn weak minded and scared. I want him out of here ASAP.

Hill and Blair were great this year and hopefully Pop will play more of the young guys next season. Hairston should have enough experience to get rotation minutes. Splitter has to come over.

And let's go get 5 next year because I truly feel that that is the last year we have a chance.

[crc21209]

Truer words have never been spoken timvp...GREAT take. It's times like these that make you cherish just how much everything must go RIGHT to be in the position to win a championship (let alone 4 in 9 years), which seems even more amazing now.

[NFGIII]

Has Manu returned to Stardom or did he simply prove that he can provide periods of spectacular play but then his legs catch up to him? I'm not sure, but hopefully next year will prove you right.

I think his legs are good but his minutes have to be monitored. And during the game they flashed the stats showing Manu's production through the 9 post season games and split them between the first two - pre broken nose - and the last 7 - post broken nose.

Night and day. Two completelty different players. I think the nose had more impact on him than he was willing to admit. And I really don't think Manu would have admitted anything. He is too much of a competitor to make excuses about his performances. And I will give the Suns some of the credit, too. Not much but some. :D


I still wished they had played the Lakers in the first round. That was the best opportunity for them to get knocked off. Now, I can't see anyone in the West beating them.

:tu I as well as others wanted that to happen, too. I felt it would have been the best road for the Spurs. Beat the Lakers and take on the Jazz/Nuggets. WCF for sure, especially if the Nuggets were to win. We had their number late in the season and they were in the process of imploding. IMHO Though the Jazz owned the Spurs in the regular season I felt that the Spurs entering the PO were a different team and not the one beaten by the Jazz earlier. And AK47 was out.


Agreed again the bonner hate overshadows what's available. Players like the people want are not available. Splitter is the best big man the spurs can hope to get this offseason. Outside of that the best available is guys like bonner...

Slim pickins' out there for sure. Pretty sad commentary about the quality on the market now. That is what the Spurs are able to acquire.

Unless the Spurs acn unload that albatross of a contract in RJ the window just might be shutting. Bad fit but who really knew? Maybe some might say they did but the consensus was that this was a great trade for the Spurs.

I tend to agree with Kori that RJ just didn't but into the black and silver philosophy.

[Slippy]

In my humble opinion, the series was lost in Game 1 after the Spurs couldn't sustain their numerous runs and instead handed the contest to the Suns. That allowed Phoenix to get confidence and proceed to live up to their explosive potential.



Couldn't agree more here. Nice thread , thanks for all your reactions.

[rascal]

Spurs thought the team was better constructed than it was and that off-season made no real moves to improve the team. Instead they re-signed Bonner and traded Scola away. They also traded Beno for nothing.

Agree
Lots of bad moves by the front office since the last title.

[NameOfTheGame]

Getting number five is going to be difficult. Chances are it won't happen. The Big 3 probably has too many miles on their tires. The young players probably won't be able to develop quickly enough. But I have hope. I like the team's character. I believe that winning is everyone's main goal. With a few offseason moves and better luck next year at this time, things could be much different ... for the fifth time.

Thanks to the Spurs and Spurs fans for another entertaining season. Stay thirsty.

Stay thirsty, my friends. :toast

[Kamnik]

Beautifully summed up timvp!

[gilmor]

TiMVP is the best!!

I think Spurs another star player. One that is of the same caliber with the Big 3 and probably 3 more role players.

Having Hill, Blair and Dice will be a plus; but with no doubt, they need another one same rank as the Big 3 to compete with... the Lakers.

[Riverwalkman]

Good, next season there are still Duncan and Spurs. That's a really good thing.

[Spurs Brazil]

A lot of great stuff in this thread.

For me 3 big things.

1 - A heathy TP, that mean no summer play. If the 2009 TP is back we'll be great
2 - Trade Jefferson. The guy doesn't fit and I think he is problem in the locker room
3 - Sign Tiago

[G-Nob]

In the post game interview, Pop mentioned disappointment in the season. When asked to clarify, he said, "that is just our personal business."

Was he talking about RJ?

[TIMMYD!]

It is also a reminder of all the extra good luck it took for the Spurs to win their last title. I still contend that it was the fool's gold that set up the disappointments of the past 3 seasons.

Fuck. Off.

[ShoogarBear]

In the post game interview, Pop mentioned disappointment in the season. When asked to clarify, he said, "that is just our personal business."

Was he talking about RJ?

Nah, he was probably talking about the ugly personal breakup with Fin. Nothing hurts like true love lost.

[Slippy]

And Manu not being able to penetrate had more to do with the blitzes and hard hedges on the pick and rolls.

Phoenix's team defense on Parker and Manu's pick and roll was just as good as I've seen. Props to them.

.

Agree. Not just the 2 guys trapping. Other defendes were sagging off their men positioning themselfs in Manu's driving lanes. A big reason why an open Tim was getting passes threaded to him, right under the basket. Lack of repsect for Spurs shooters didn't help Manu's cause either.