Were the past 2 months a mirror of Manu's career?

[picc84]

Dude can look like the best player in the L for a decent stretch...but then irrevocably reverts to playing equally as shitty given enough time.

Just cant sustain it enough to be truly considered a great.

[JamStone]

Interesting way of looking at it, and possibly.

Manu's an amazing player. Truly one of the greatest competitors of this NBA generation, and as you suggest has moments and games where he seems like he's the best player on the planet. The problem is that the effectiveness of his game requires him to mix it up on offense where he drives with reckless abandon when getting to the basket and leaving it all on the floor on defense and loose balls, where he's diving on the floor and putting his body in harm's way. That often results in him getting banged up, bruised, and injured, which in turn often affects the rest of his game. He doesn't have the physique of LeBron nor does he temper his play to avoid contact like Kobe often does. And that's why late in the season after all the dives and fouls have caught up to him, he just can't get that sustained level of play night in and night out. It's a shame, because he's truly one of the greatest talents in the league, including the likes of LeBron and Kobe and Wade.

[Cane]

Manu's always been streaky but I'm going to go ahead and blame it on the broken nose for his shitty shooting. Screws up your breathing and confidence and we all saw how Manu's shooting is like when his confidence isn't there (first half of the season Manu). Without a healthy Manu, the Spurs just aren't anywhere near contenders as seen in all the years after the last :lobt:

I wonder if he's going to be a sixth man again next year.

He's already a sure HOFer though with his incredible achievements from international play and being a key contributor to the Spurs victories.

[picc84]

Interesting way of looking at it, and possibly.

Manu's an amazing player. Truly one of the greatest competitors of this NBA generation, and as you suggest has moments and games where he seems like he's the best player on the planet. The problem is that the effectiveness of his game requires him to mix it up on offense where he drives with reckless abandon when getting to the basket and leaving it all on the floor on defense and loose balls, where he's diving on the floor and putting his body in harm's way. That often results in him getting banged up, bruised, and injured, which in turn often affects the rest of his game. He doesn't have the physique of LeBron nor does he temper his play to avoid contact like Kobe often does. And that's why late in the season after all the dives and fouls have caught up to him, he just can't get that sustained level of play night in and night out. It's a shame, because he's truly one of the greatest talents in the league, including the likes of LeBron and Kobe and Wade.

Not sure I buy that, because Wade plays more recklessly than Manu does with his body and still manages to be a superstar night in and night out, and carry his worthless team through April. For stretches Manu can look like Wade...and then a week later he'll look like Chris Duhon for just as long.

He wasn't injured this time, his play just leveled off like a motherfucker. Which has been the criticism against lifting him to superstar status for years.

[JamStone]

Dwyane Wade is built like a 6'4 version of LeBron. Dude is a tank.

Manu is built like Rafael Nadal.

[picc84]

Wade used to be just as skinny as Manu. He was a twig in their title season.

[z0sa]

He wasn't injured this time,

I guess you somehow missed the huge bandage and splint on his face.

[picc84]

Thats funny, didnt know players shoot and dribble with their nose.

If Spurs fans are going to blame that for his play then you guys are hitting a new alltime low. Steve Nash sent you home with one of his goddamn eyes swollen shut, and you're talking about Manu's nose.

Always the same, huh fellas.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

picc I think that injury affected his breathing a lot. When you play with as much intensity and grit as he does an injury that affects your breathing is gonna hurt your game a lot.

[z0sa]

If Spurs fans are going to blame that for his play

Who did that? Be specific.

[JamStone]

Wade used to be just as skinny as Manu. He was a twig in their title season.

Negasaurus Rex.

Wade has been a physical beast since before he even played in the league.

[picc84]

picc I think that injury affected his breathing a lot. When you play with as much intensity and grit as he does an injury that affects your breathing is gonna hurt your game a lot.

It didnt stop him from dropping 26/5/2 to eliminate the Mavs in game 6.

[picc84]

Who did that? Be specific.

If you didn't mean that, then why respond to "he wasn't injured"? I guess technically he was 'injured', but I thought it was obvious I meant a "game-effecting" injury. Which I don't believe it was.

Do you?

[z0sa]

If you didn't mean that, then why respond to "he wasn't injured"? I guess technically he was 'injured'

Thanks for playing.

[picc84]

Negasaurus Rex.

Wade has been a physical beast since before he even played in the league.

Wade 2006: 6'4, 212
Manu 2010: 6'6, 210

Same size, same style....one is a superstar every night, the other isn't.

Its not style, fam. Dude just can't keep up.

[z0sa]

Manu lost no aggressiveness, but the stats don't lie: following the injury in Game 3, his production plummeted.

He was clearly affected by the nose, for whatever reason. I blame breathing issues as well, among other things.

[picc84]

Manu lost no aggressiveness, but the stats don't lie: following the injury in Game 3, his production plummeted.

He was clearly affected by the nose, for whatever reason. I blame breathing issues as well, among other things.

So you are blaming the nose for his play.


Who did that? Be specific.

Spurs fan on some schizo shit.

[Leetonidas]

Wade 2006: 6'4, 212
Manu 2010: 6'6, 210

Same size, same style....one is a superstar every night, the other isn't.

Its not style, fam. Dude just can't keep up.

I love Ginobili but you're making a retarded argument. The fact that you're even trying to compare him to D-Wade shows what a beast he is. And yeah it totally was his nose, look at the stats. Before he broke his nose he was beasting, afterwards, not so much. For a player who takes a beating every night, a broken nose is going to affect his play because he can't just drive with reckless abandon all the time because if he gets hit in that nose, he's done.

And no, they're not the same size. Wade is two inches shorter, but two pounds heavier. He has a bigger build, 2 inches does make a decent difference, especially in professional sports.

[ElNono]

I actually think he played well. Even with his bad shooting he put up a couple of 27 point games in this series. The Suns basically blitzed and played hard hedges on him all series long, so he did what you do in those cases, pass to the open man. Unfortunately, the open man was most often Dick or Bonner, and their clang-fest. We did a lot of that with Nash for stretches, but one of Frye, JRich or Grant Hill always made us pay.

[Muser]

Why is Laker fan saying Wade > Manu like it's a bad thing?

[z0sa]

So you are blaming the nose for his play.

Do you deny there is a major statistical dropoff following the injury?




Spurs fan on some schizo shit.

Maybe if you didn't ignore a major injury to someone's face, there wouldn't be a need to correct you.

[picc84]

Of course i'm comparing him to Dwade. Thats the point, at times he can look like the best player in the league, comparable to Wade. But time and time again, he reverts into playing like shit, while the other stars of the league remain consistent in their efforts for the most part.

This has been happening for a long time. You can't blame it ALL on injuries, guy. The fact of the matter is, Manu dropping off against the Suns is something that could be expected anyway. His nose only provides you with a convenient excuse for it.

No hate, he's one of my favorite players in the L. But this is what dissapoints me about him so much.

[j.dizzle]

Manu decided to play like Paul Pierce at the wrong time.

[picc84]

Who did that? Be specific.


He was clearly affected by the nose, for whatever reason. I blame breathing issues as well, among other things.

[ElNono]

Not even Tony got into the paint that much in this series. Which goes to tell you that you really need some shooters to spread the floor. We didn't have them, they did.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It didnt stop him from dropping 26/5/2 to eliminate the Mavs in game 6.


He crapped out in the 4th quarter of games 1 and 3 against Phoenix, the other two he was basically a non-factor. When you're not breathing well it affects your entire body, yes inconsistency has always been the knock on him but when he's drawing front rim on wide open 3's it's tired legs which can be related to bad breathing.

[z0sa]

:lol when I asked that question, no one had. I'm not, either. I'm saying he was affected by the injury, which is pretty much a fact.

[Leetonidas]

Of course i'm comparing him to Dwade. Thats the point, at times he can look like the best player in the league, comparable to Wade. But time and time again, he reverts into playing like shit, while the other stars of the league remain consistent in their efforts for the most part.

This has been happening for a long time. You can't blame it ALL on injuries, guy. The fact of the matter is, Manu dropping off against the Suns is something that could be expected anyway. His nose only provides you with a convenient excuse for it.

No hate, he's one of my favorite players in the L. But this is what dissapoints me about him so much.

See: 2005, 2007

He sustained his level of play for an entire postseason and on the big stage, which is what matters.

[z0sa]

See: 2005, 2007

He sustained his level of play for an entire postseason and on the big stage, which is what matters.

I wouldn't argue with this dude. I'm not sure he watched a Spurs game this postseason, considering he doesn't even know about Manu's face injury.

[Muser]

So when Kobe is playing with a bad finger and sucks he's a warrior, when Manu plays with a broken nose and sucks he's dropping off. Okay.

[picc84]

If Spurs fans are going to blame that for his play


Who did that? Be specific.


He was clearly affected by the nose, for whatever reason. I blame breathing issues as well, among other things.


when I asked that question, no one had. I'm not, either. I'm saying he was affected by the injury, which is pretty much a fact.

This motherfucker is on some Memento shit. :lol

[picc84]

So when Kobe is playing with a bad finger and sucks he's a warrior, when Manu plays with a broken nose and sucks he's dropping off. Okay.

Pretty much everyone had written Kobe off as early as 2 weeks ago. Whatchu talmbout? :lol

Also broken finger >> broken nose basketball-wise

[z0sa]

Who had done it at the time I asked the question?

[picc84]

See: 2005, 2007

He sustained his level of play for an entire postseason and on the big stage, which is what matters.

So when Spurs fan complain about his inconsistency, they dont know what they're talking about.

That about right?

[Muser]

Pretty much everyone had written Kobe off as early as 2 weeks ago. Whatchu talmbout? :lol

Also broken finger >> broken nose basketball-wise

The fuck? Everyone was slobbering his dick saying how great he is for playing with a bad finger.

Oh and considering most of Manu's game is taking contact and getting to the rim i'd say it's about even.

[j.dizzle]

Why didnt Manu wear a mask? All that tape n shit on his nose kept coming off a little bit when he would sweat a lot.

[z0sa]

He wasn't injured this time, his play just leveled off like a motherfucker.

You must be on that good shit to totally miss Manu's facebandage and splint.

[JamStone]

Wade 2006: 6'4, 212
Manu 2010: 6'6, 210

Same size, same style....one is a superstar every night, the other isn't.

Its not style, fam. Dude just can't keep up.

Are you foreal? Weight doesn't necessarily show a difference in physique, strength, and or bulk/mass. Different people carry weight differently.

Alex Rodriguez: 6'3, 228
Joe Mauer: 6'5, 230

Are you going to argue that Joe Mauer has the same physique as A-Rod?

Or how about:

Steven Jackson: 6'2, 236
Jay Cutler: 6'3, 233

How about you argue how Steven Jackson and Jay Cutler are the same size and would be similarly durable after the same number of tackles and hits.

Two players with similar height and weight can have different physiques, different builds, different bulk and strength.


I will concede that Ginobili's inconsistency isn't always or completely due to his physical style of play and physique. But I certainly think it factors into why sometimes he just can't sustain a high level of play, especially late in seasons and in the playoffs. I think the long season and the bangs and bruises do catch up to him. It's not the only factor, but it's part of it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Also broken finger >> broken nose basketball-wise


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao yeah Kobe's Avulsion fracture (what most refer to as a "jammed finger") is worse than an actual broken bone in your nose that fucks up breathing and forces you to wear a maxipad on your face.

[z0sa]

Also broken finger >> broken nose basketball-wise

Not really. A broken finger on your offhand can often mean very little at the NBA level. Even a broken shooting finger can be played through rather easily. Your boy Kobe knows all about it.

A huge splint and bandage on your face affects your vision and rhythm when you have exactly zero practice with it, and a broken nose definitely affects your breathing and relatively, your conditioning. You can bring up Nash all you want; Nash is a different human being than Manu and is affected by injuries differently.

The reality is: stats absolutely back up Manu being affected by the injury. Not only that, anyone who watched him unable to drive past Grant Hill during crunchtime of a mustwin game because he was winded knows that the nose affected his breathing a lot.

[Muser]

Damn picc84 getting his shit packed by everyone.

[picc84]

Who had done it at the time I asked the question?

You did. And you did it afterward. Then tried to act like you didn't, right before doing it again.

[z0sa]

You did [at the time I asked the question].

Quote, please.

[z0sa]

Then tried to act like you didn't, right before doing it again.

The problem here is you consider your opinion the only right way. My opinion is different, and doesn't require blaming Manu for anything.

[picc84]

Are you foreal? Weight doesn't necessarily show a difference in physique, strength, and or bulk/mass. Different people carry weight differently.

Alex Rodriguez: 6'3, 228
Joe Mauer: 6'5, 230

Are you going to argue that Joe Mauer has the same physique as A-Rod?

Or how about:

Steven Jackson: 6'2, 236
Jay Cutler: 6'3, 233

How about you argue how Steven Jackson and Jay Cutler are the same size and would be similarly durable after the same number of tackles and hits.

Two players with similar height and weight can have different physiques, different builds, different bulk and strength.


I will concede that Ginobili's inconsistency isn't always or completely due to his physical style of play and physique. But I certainly think it factors into why sometimes he just can't sustain a high level of play, especially late in seasons and in the playoffs. I think the long season and the bangs and bruises do catch up to him. It's not the only factor, but it's part of it.

I dont know who Joe Mauer is, and i'm not too familiar with Jay Cutler. What I do know is that Dwade has had seasons at similar sizes as Ginobili and has never had the consistency problems he has. Wade only bulked up after the title season, NOW there is a noticeable size difference between the two. Back then, no.

One is consistent. The other isn't. Thats the only difference.

[z0sa]

Wade hasn't been "injury free" himself, exactly, because of that reckless style of play. The difference is, Wade has been a #1 option for his team throughout his career, while Manu has never been more than a T. 2nd in that regard. It's really hard to compare how consistent one could be as a #1 option when he's never been asked to fill such a role on an NBA team.

[picc84]

Not really. A broken finger on your offhand can often mean very little at the NBA level. Even a broken shooting finger can be played through rather easily. Your boy Kobe knows all about it.

A huge splint and bandage on your face affects your vision and rhythm when you have exactly zero practice with it, and a broken nose definitely affects your breathing and relatively, your conditioning. You can bring up Nash all you want; Nash is a different human being than Manu and is affected by injuries differently.

The reality is: stats absolutely back up Manu being affected by the injury. Not only that, anyone who watched him unable to drive past Grant Hill during crunchtime of a mustwin game because he was winded knows that the nose affected his breathing a lot.

You've played with both, I assume?

The reality is that stats back up Manu being himself. Thriving for a while, then playing bad again, then thriving again. Thats who he is. The nose is just your convenient excuse for the year, something you guys are very, very good at.

Didnt Rip Hamilton play with a mask for a whole year because his nose was annihilated? And his whole job is just to run around like a chicken with its head cut off. He never seemed to get too gassed to contribute. Or maybe Pistons fans just dont make excuses.

Dont remember Nash playing much differently after his nose got torpedoed in 2007. 19/12 and 18/14 in the two games after that. No excuses from Suns fans then. And dont forget him closing out the Spurs with one eye last night.

How can you make these excuses and look at yourselves in the mirror, spurs fans? Don't you ever get tired? :downspin:

[clambake]

so.....in other words........the mavs knocked off the spurs again.

[IronMexican]

He's not as good as Dragic, but manu is a nice 7th or 8th player off the bench.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You've played with both, I assume?


I've played basketball with a jammed finger before and it really wasn't a big deal. I guess I'm a warrior.

[picc84]

lol jammed finger

And Nash had his eye shut cause he was sleepy. :lol

[z0sa]

You've played with both, I assume?

You're the one saying one injury >> the other.

Have you played with both enough to make that distinction? Now, have you played with both enough at a pro-level with pro doctors to make a distinction?


The reality is that stats back up Manu being himself. Thriving for a while, then playing bad again, then thriving again. Thats who he is. The nose is just your convenient excuse for the year, something you guys are very, very good at.

What stats do you speak about? Which time periods are Manu "thriving", according to you, and which time periods is he playing "bad"?

Manu has always been a better player in the playoffs, so I think you're about to go down a road that will only cause you more embarrassment.


Didnt Rip Hamilton play with a mask for a whole year? And his whole job is just to run around like a chicken with its head cut off. He never seemed to get too gassed to contribute. Or maybe Pistons fans just dont make excuses.

What does Rip Hamilton wearing a protective mask as a preventative measure over a long period of time have to do with Manu wearing a splint/bandage as a temporary bandaid on a pretty serious face injury for a short period of time?

Two totally different situations with totally different factors that totally cannot be compared in this context.


Dont remember Nash playing much differently after his nose got torpedoed in 2007. And dont forget him closing out the Spurs with one eye last night.

You don't remember as well as you'd like.


How can you make these excuses and look at yourselves in the mirror, spurs fans? Don't you ever get tired? :downspin:

:sleep doesn't LAfan ever get tired of being douchebags and frontrunners?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol jammed finger

And Nash had his eye shut cause he was sleepy. :lol


That's what an Avulsion Fracture is, a jammed finger. Just because Kobe decided to slap a band-aid on it doesn't make it any worse than it is.

[picc84]

You're the one saying one injury >> the other.

Have you played with both enough to make that distinction? Now, have you played with both enough at a pro-level with pro doctors to make a distinction?

Fingers are involved in every bball related function. Shooting, dribbling, defense, passing, etc.

How many are the nose involved in?

cue "breathing"

That you even act like this is comparable is a joke.


What stats do you speak about? Which time periods are Manu "thriving", according to you, and which time periods is he playing "bad"?

Is or is not Manu Ginobili an inconsistent player who's biggest knock has been periods of excellence followed by periods of underachievement.

I've heard this from Spur fans for years, and now you're going to try an act like i'm the one making it up?


Manu has always been a better player in the playoffs, so I think you're about to go down a road that will only cause you more embarrassment.

Manu has been a beast in the playoffs for many years, sure. All i'm saying is that his postseason this year has exemplified the criticisms of him over the years. A monster one game and a pup the next. Nose fucked up or not.


What does Rip Hamilton wearing a protective mask as a preventative measure over a long period of time have to do with Manu wearing a splint/bandage as a temporary bandaid on a pretty serious face injury for a short period of time?

Two totally different situations with totally different factors that totally cannot be compared in this context.

Rip fractured his nose 3 times in the 2004 season and had to wear a mask while it was still fucked up. The same season they won the championship.

You wanna tell me he can zoom around the court until June after getting his nose pushed in 3 TIMES and Manu can't handle being guarded by Jared Dudley for 4 games?

Thats whats really good? :wow


You don't remember as well as you'd like.

19/12 and 18/14 in the games following his nose busting. Nash is a warrior.

Guess Manu isn't.


:sleep doesn't LAfan ever get tired of being douchebags and frontrunners?

Nah. :lol

[z0sa]

Fingers are involved in every bball related function. Shooting, dribbling, defense, passing, etc.

How many are the nose involved in?

cue "breathing"

That you even act like this is comparable is a joke.

What's more important to your overall health, being able to use one of your ten fingers, or breathing?




Is or is not Manu Ginobili an inconsistent player who's biggest knock has been periods of excellence followed by periods of underachievement.

Why are you asking me? I never argued this.


I've heard this from Spur fans for years, and now you're going to try an act like i'm the one making it up?

:lol Where did I say you made anything up? I simply asked you for some source material - I guess you're unable to provide any then?




Manu has been a beast in the playoffs for many years, sure. All i'm saying is that his postseason this year has exemplified the criticisms of him over the years. A monster one game and a pup the next. Nose fucked up or not.

You're all over the board, apparently.




Rip fractured his nose 3 times in the 2004 season and had to wear a mask while it was still fucked up. The same season they won the championship.

You wanna tell me he can zoom around the court until June after getting his nose pushed in 3 TIMES and Manu can't handle being guarded by Jared Dudley for 4 games?

Thats whats really good? :wow

For the second time now: two totally different situations that cannot be compared in this context.



19/12 and 18/14 in the games following his nose busting. Nash is a warrior.

Guess Manu isn't.

That's what you've been waiting to say the whole thread, we realize. So instead of arguing your retarded contentions, just come out and be the douche we all know you are.




Nah. :lol

:wakeup

[JamStone]

I dont know who Joe Mauer is, and i'm not too familiar with Jay Cutler.

I don't know if you're serious or not. But fine. I'll use this example instead.

Kevin Durant: 6'9, 230 lbs.
Paul Pierce: 6'7, 235 lbs.

Same size according to your logic, right?

Or...

Chauncey Billups: 6'3, 202 lbs.
Jamal Crawford: 6'5, 200 lbs.

Same sized players, right?



What I do know is that Dwade has had seasons at similar sizes as Ginobili and has never had the consistency problems he has. Wade only bulked up after the title season, NOW there is a noticeable size difference between the two. Back then, no.

At the time of the 2003 NBA Draft, Dwyane Wade was essentially the same size he is now. For evidence, please click the following links to see his measurements at the time of the 2003 combine:

Draft Express combine measurement history 2003 (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2003&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=): Dwyane Wade, 6'475" in shoes, 212 lbs.

nbadraft.net listed measurements (http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/2003.html): Dwyane Wade, 6-5, 212

I'm not sure where you are coming up with the notion that Wade had only bulked up since the Heat's title season. It's simply not true. However, I'd be more than happy to allow you to provide some evidence to that contention. Wade has added maybe 5 or so lbs., but it has not been a noticeable increase in muscle mass or bulk. And he was already a thick and muscular physical specimen before his championship season, even before he entered the NBA.

http://enquirer.com/editions/2003/03/29/ukwadedrive_zoom.jpg

The kid was a tank in college before he played in the NBA. He did not have the slender build Manu has. Where is your evidence to that claim?



One is consistent. The other isn't. Thats the only difference.

They are not the same size. They don't have the same build or physique. Looking on paper to see their height and weight measurements simply doesn't support that claim. Wade is and always has been (even before the Miami title) a much more muscular athlete that would seemingly be able to handle more physical play and the amount of hits and fouls a player like him would endure during the course of a season much better than a more slender player like Manu would be able to.

One has always been the #1 option on his team and almost always takes the most shots on his team, even in his championship season when Shaq was there. The other has always been an unselfish team player who was more than willing to play a back-up role to Duncan and/or Parker if either or both were having good shooting nights. What you suggest is Wade's "consistent" play is a product of the Heat's offense always running through him.

Manu can be inconsistent at times. But that is much more of a product of the team he's on and the way he plays. It's Ginobili's unselfishness, his willingness to play a role for the team, and understanding if his teammates are scoring at a better clip that he doesn't have to take so many field goal attempts.

Now his level of play might drop off late in the season, but I don't think that's really connected to "consistency" or "inconsistency." His numbers, especially his scoring numbers, aren't always indicative of whether he's playing well or not. Often, it's a product of teammates playing well and him deferring to them.

[Ghazi]

lol piccc

[picc84]

I don't know if you're serious or not. But fine. I'll use this example instead.

Kevin Durant: 6'9, 230 lbs.
Paul Pierce: 6'7, 235 lbs.

Same size according to your logic, right?

Or...

Chauncey Billups: 6'3, 202 lbs.
Jamal Crawford: 6'5, 200 lbs.

Same sized players, right?

At the time of the 2003 NBA Draft, Dwyane Wade was essentially the same size he is now. For evidence, please click the following links to see his measurements at the time of the 2003 combine:

Draft Express combine measurement history 2003 (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2003&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=): Dwyane Wade, 6'475" in shoes, 212 lbs.

nbadraft.net listed measurements (http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/2003.html): Dwyane Wade, 6-5, 212

I'm not sure where you are coming up with the notion that Wade had only bulked up since the Heat's title season. It's simply not true. However, I'd be more than happy to allow you to provide some evidence to that contention. Wade has added maybe 5 or so lbs., but it has not been a noticeable increase in muscle mass or bulk. And he was already a thick and muscular physical specimen before his championship season, even before he entered the NBA.

The kid was a tank in college before he played in the NBA. He did not have the slender build Manu has. Where is your evidence to that claim?

Dwyane Wade circa 2006

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/d_wade.jpg
http://accel15.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/00/94/22/basketball/nba/2006-nba-finals---dallas-mavericks-vs-miami-heat/dwyane-wade-2006-nba-finals-mvp.jpg
http://www.bballcity.com/images/2007/dwyane-wade-3-med.jpg

Dwyane Wade circa 2010

http://www.myairshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/wade-jordan-16.5-41.jpg
http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/dwyane_wade11.jpg

Dwyane Wade on bulking up (from 2008):

http://www.mensfitness.com/sports_and_recreation/athletes/86?page=2

At first sight, it looks like Dwyane Wade has put on some solid muscle, which he acknowledges. "Yeah I bulked up," he says. "This is probably the strongest I've been."

As i'm sure you can see, there is a noticeable difference between Wade 4 years ago and Wade now. He made a conscious effort to get bigger and stronger since the championship season, which is why he appears so much larger than Manu now.

My point was about Wade then, when his frame was comparable to Manu. He proved that a player of that size with an attacking style can indeed survive a season playing at a consistent high level.

No one on earth would have described Wade as a "tank" his first few years in the NBA. He was the definition of the lithe, slender fast guard.


They don't have the same build or physique.

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/d_wade.jpg
http://www.clap.name/images/manu2.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/manuemotion_300_070518.jpg

Similar build and physique.


Looking on paper to see their height and weight measurements simply doesn't support that claim. Wade is and always has been (even before the Miami title) a much more muscular athlete that would seemingly be able to handle more physical play and the amount of hits and fouls a player like him would endure during the course of a season much better than a more slender player like Manu would be able to.

Pierce/Durant and your other example were good counterclaims. 2005/2006 Wade and Ginobili, however, did share similar frames.


One has always been the #1 option on his team and almost always takes the most shots on his team, even in his championship season when Shaq was there. The other has always been an unselfish team player who was more than willing to play a back-up role to Duncan and/or Parker if either or both were having good shooting nights. What you suggest is Wade's "consistent" play is a product of the Heat's offense always running through him.

Manu was the Spurs #1 option for much of this year, and the offense ran through him. It ran through him during the Dallas series and through him during the Phx series. He's been the primary playmaker and ballhandler through pretty much the entire postseason. If Wade took on Manu's role on the Suns, either of two things would happen.

1. He would produce more, even in the reduced role that Manu supposedly has, because his game is more consistent.

or

2. He would become the primary option anyway, because he is more reliable than Ginobili is on a consistent basis. The offense in Miami didn't run through Wade for no reason.

You can have an offense run through you at all times and not average 30ppg and 6apg like Wade does. You act like anyone in that position would produce at that level - they can't.


Now his level of play might drop off late in the season, but I don't think that's really connected to "consistency" or "inconsistency." His numbers, especially his scoring numbers, aren't always indicative of whether he's playing well or not. Often, it's a product of teammates playing well and him deferring to them.

Of course they aren't. I was the first one to point out during the Dallas series when he had a bad shooting game but a fantastic overall game. I love Manu. He's the definition of an intangible guy.

But he did not play well versus Phoenix. And it wasn't because he was banged up.

[JamStone]

No, I don't see a noticeable difference between 2006 Wade and 2010 Wade. Absolutely honestly.

No, I don't think Manu Ginobili at any point in his career now or before had a similar build to pre-2006 Dwyane Wade. Wade has always been stockier and more muscular than Manu in my opinion.

Manu can be the number 1 option on the Spurs in any given game. He doesn't always have to be, nor is he. Wade is ALWAYS the number 1 option on the Heat.

Whether he's been healthy or injured, whether he's been the main option most of the year or the third option, whether he's starting or coming off the bench, Manu has often put up inconsistent numbers. And those inconsistent numbers are "mostly" a product of how Pop uses him and constantly changes what he asks Manu to do for the team, whether coming off the bench or starting, whether needing Manu to be aggressive with his scoring or asking Manu to take on more of a facilitator (PG type) role to set people up. I don't think what you suggest as Manu being "inconsistent" is due to health and injury. I think it's mostly because he's asked to do different things and he's unselfish when it comes to worrying about his statistics.

I'll give you a few playoff series stats for Manu.

2008 playoff series against Phoenix Suns when the Spurs won in 5 games and the year Manu really had become the main guy on the team on offense for that season:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
24/5/4/10-24
29/3/3/9-17
20/1/5/7-11
10/1/4/4-8
8/0/3/2-11

2007 7-game classic playoff series against Dallas where the Mavs beat the Spurs to finally get past the Spurs they year the Mavs went to the Finals:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
15/0/5/5-14
13/1/2/4-11
24/2/3/7-16
26/2/3/8-11
18/5/4/6-13
30/2/10/8-14
23/2/2/6-11

2005 epic 7-game NBA Finals against Detroit, where many had felt that Manu deserved the Finals MVP over Duncan:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
26/2/9/10-16
27/7/3/6-8
7/0/4/2-6
12/3/4/4-9
15/9/6/5-16
21/3/10/7-17
23/4/5/8-13

As you can clearly see, even when he's considered to be playing well, even when he's the main guy, he puts up inconsistent numbers because of the team he plays for, because of what Pop asks him to do, and because of his teammates.


As you acknowledged, Manu's inconsistent numbers doesn't mean he's not playing well. But when his level of play late in the season and in the playoffs does drop, I think you can absolutely point to wear and tear on his body from the regular season due to his style of play as being ONE of the factors. Not the only one, but one of them.

Manu did not have a very good series against the Suns. I didn't argue he didn't. But, I think you can point to a number of things why that's the case. I think all the hits he takes during the season and in the first round does affect him and his body and subsequently his sustained level of play. And I do think his nose injury did affect him too. Not the only reasons. Suns played pretty good defense and Manu sometimes just didn't have his game on, but I think you can factors those things I mentioned.