Henry Abbot of True Hoop trashes Duncan.

[senorglory]

Henry Abbot of ESPNs True Hoop, trashes Duncan, naming him as one this year's playoff disappointments. Calls Duncan a "defensive liability."

Roundtable: Most Disappointing Players (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/news/story?page=DisappointingPlayers-100510)

***

3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio
The Phoenix Suns don't have an Achilles' heel. They have an Achilles' half-acre.

With Robin Lopez out, it's fair to ask if there has ever been a playoff team so unprepared to stop a quality big man in the paint. The Suns are terrible when Jarron Collins is on the floor, and Channing Frye and Amare Stoudemire play mainly for their offense. So with one of the most favorable matchups any NBA star has faced in the playoffs, Duncan should have been dominating.

Instead he was merely solid on offense, and a liability on defense. (Compare Duncan's offense to, say, the Hawks' Al Horford, who is playing against the defensive player of the year, and one of the NBA's best defenses. Horford has a much better true shooting percentage and a better rebound rate to go with lower usage and turnover rates.)

In Duncan's 12th postseason, he slipped badly. Steve Nash made layup after layup, and the vast majority of the time -- because of injury, age or something -- Duncan didn't even have the wherewithal to jump, let alone block the shot. Although Duncan did manage to briefly slow Nash with an inadvertent elbow to the eye in Game 4, Duncan's defensive shortcomings proved a key factor in one of the NBA's best teams bowing out in a second-round sweep instead of vying for a title.

Henry Abbot can suck my balls.

[fyatuk]

Quite frankly, he's somewhat right.

Defensively, we were abused on the pick-and-roll because Tim was unable to help contain Nash and get back to his man, even over fairly short distances. He didn't jump to challenge shots, and often reached when in earlier years he would have been able to slide in front of someone. Also, the Suns got a lot of 3's because of the Spurs defenders having to drop down to help in the paint and not being able to get back, which is something the Spurs haven't had to do in previous matchups against the Suns.

Obviously having Bonner, Mason, and Blair (was pretty bad except for when he was fronting Stoudamire), didn't help, but for much of the time he was out there, Duncan was a weak point in the defense. That's only because of his lack of mobility and the capability of the Suns big men to really pull him out of the lane by hitting 15+ ' jumpers.

Offensively, there's no arguing that Duncan didn't have one of the worst postseasons we've seen from him after game three in Dallas. The sudden dropoff leads one to believe that his knee was acting up after that game and never quite got right again. He was missing shots he'd normally make, and his free throw shooting was abyssmal.

However, the main reason the Spurs lost is still the fact that there were only 7 people Pop trusted, and one of them was Bonner...

[senorglory]

A few days earlier, ESPN slammed Duncan with the headline, Has Duncan Become A Defensive Liabillity? (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15752/has-tim-duncan-become-a-defensive-liability). Despite the damning headline, the article itself failed to make a case against Duncan, ultimately concluding that Duncan was now an "average" defender:

In his prime, few big men multitasked pick-and-roll defense the way Duncan could. He had both the intuition, reaction and agility to harass the craftiest ball-handlers, while simultaneously checking the screener. Duncan almost always seemed to guess right -- but it wasn't guesswork at all. Duncan's instincts guided his movement on the defensive end of the floor.

***

Even at his most exposed, he's no worse than average for an NBA big man on the pick-and-roll.

There is no substance to this allegation. Hopefully it will not gain traction through repetition.

[TIMMYD!]

Yes, Tim is becoming slower and all but it doesn't mean he isn't a better defensive player than 90% of C's in the league.

[toki9]

That's not entirely fair...yes, he has slipped, but the Spurs' defensive scheme always called for a solid perimeter stopper/impeder and a 2nd big to protect the rim from the weakside...it was never a one-man defense scheme...and given that the team no longer has a perimeter stopper/impeder and a 2nd big, Duncan's inability to compensate for everyone else seems worse than it actually is...

It was a team weakness...this was not a good defensive team...

[Refocus]

Every player on the team was a defensive liability.. we got killed with constant bad defensive rotations. :|

[crc21209]

Yes, Tim is becoming slower and all but it doesn't mean he isn't a better defensive player than 90% of C's in the league.

+1. Add the fact that Pop for some reason went with Bonner the majority of this series instead of Dice who at least is waaay better defensively and could've helped TD in the post...

[doobs]

Duncan has slowed. He is no longer a defensive anchor.

But add a perimeter defender who can hit the corner three, and pair Duncan with another decent-to-good interior defender . . . Duncan would thrive on both ends. His window hasn't yet closed.

[rfbulletdude]

Henry Abbot of ESPNs True Hoop, trashes Duncan, naming him as one this year's playoff disappointments. Calls Duncan a "defensive liability."

Roundtable: Most Disappointing Players (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/news/story?page=DisappointingPlayers-100510)

***

3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio
The Phoenix Suns don't have an Achilles' heel. They have an Achilles' half-acre.

With Robin Lopez out, it's fair to ask if there has ever been a playoff team so unprepared to stop a quality big man in the paint. The Suns are terrible when Jarron Collins is on the floor, and Channing Frye and Amare Stoudemire play mainly for their offense. So with one of the most favorable matchups any NBA star has faced in the playoffs, Duncan should have been dominating.

Instead he was merely solid on offense, and a liability on defense. (Compare Duncan's offense to, say, the Hawks' Al Horford, who is playing against the defensive player of the year, and one of the NBA's best defenses. Horford has a much better true shooting percentage and a better rebound rate to go with lower usage and turnover rates.)

In Duncan's 12th postseason, he slipped badly. Steve Nash made layup after layup, and the vast majority of the time -- because of injury, age or something -- Duncan didn't even have the wherewithal to jump, let alone block the shot. Although Duncan did manage to briefly slow Nash with an inadvertent elbow to the eye in Game 4, Duncan's defensive shortcomings proved a key factor in one of the NBA's best teams bowing out in a second-round sweep instead of vying for a title.

Henry Abbot can suck my balls.


I agree w/ Mr. Abbot.

[DarrinS]

The Mavs series was a drain on Manu and Tim -- and it showed against the Suns. Those guys aren't getting any younger.

Nash is a couple of years older than Timmy, which makes what he did that much more impressive.

[phxspurfan]

Yeah, he's kinda right. Watching this series, it looked an awful lot like the Warriors' dismantling of the Mavs in 07. The Warriors had more energy, a better home crowd, way better shooting but no inside game whatsoever. This Suns team is better than teh Warriors, with both far more experience and talent, but we should have been mroe like the Jazz and pounded them in the paint. The Jazz in '07 absolutely demolished the Warriors, and it was because they recognized the smaller team's chasm in the middle and went after that weakness from the start.

The Spurs, of course, didn't have the depth in the C/F positions like the Jazz always do, but Duncan could and should have beasted in every game of this series. In fact he needed to drop 30+ with close to 20 boards a game for us to win, and he should have. No excuses when you chill for an entire year, playing 3/4 of the usual star's minutes (30mpg season, ~40mpg playoffs).

And yes, I know he's old.

[Obstructed_View]

Someone should count Duncan's blocks in this series. I'd bet they went up. Duncan can't play defense by himself, and all he can do when the game plan says to switch is to switch.

And Al Horford is a joke. Anyone who says he compares favorably has missed him giving up 80 layups a game to Orlando while they lose by 30 every night.

[Cane]

Abbot was on the Bill Simmons podcast today and they talked about this as well.

Duncan did have a disappointing playoffs and his weaknesses were exposed. Still can't believe how bad he shot from the free throw line either.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan has been unfairly trashed this entire series..Tim averaged 2.8 blocks in the series TO ADD to 1 steal per game, which is a very high number for a 34-year old with so many responsibilities on both ends of the floor..

He also defended Stoudemire a lot better than most people have in the past few months..

Duncan is now an average or below average pick and roll defender, which was obviously expected..expecting him to defend the p&r AND defend Stoudemire AND anchor the defense is a ridiculous expectation..

The Spurs FO has done a terrible job at getting Tim some help in the frontcourt..don't get me wrong, McDyess had a good playoffs, but he's not the answer..the Spurs need a mobile big man that can play D next to Tim, hopefully Splitter is that guy..

It also doesn't help that the Spurs don't have any competent defenders on the wing..Tony and Manu played good D in the playoffs, but you obviously can't expect them to be consistent while playing a huge role offensively..

[duncan228]

Someone should count Duncan's blocks in this series. I'd bet they went up.

Blocks in the Dallas series: 6

Suns series: 11

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan's playoff averages were 19 PPG, 10 RPG, 1.7 BPG, 2.6 APG on 52% shooting..I really don't think anybody should have expected any more from him, it's unrealistic..

The only thing that disappointed me about Duncan was his horrible FT shooting..no excuses for that..

BTW, Abbott had Dirk as his #1 disappointment, which is ridiculous..

[tim_duncan_fan]

Duncan could have made up for sucking on defense (and he did suck) by being aggressive offensively. But would he attack? NO! Would he demand the ball when his guards were taking bad threes and couldn't get in the lane or couldn't finish? No he would not!

Duncan played like a passive weenie and his team followed suit. So, we are where we are. We'll try to implement Mahinmi next season and hopefully get a young wing who can stroke it a little bit as but as far as this past series...Duncan and his guys just didn't want it bad enough.

[elbamba]

The Mavs series was a drain on Manu and Tim -- and it showed against the Suns. Those guys aren't getting any younger.

Nash is a couple of years older than Timmy, which makes what he did that much more impressive.

Duncan has way more miles on his legs than Nash

[HarlemHeat37]

Asking Duncan to defend the p&r time and time again gives the illusion that Duncan was bad on defense..that's not on Duncan, that's on the FO for doing a poor job at getting a mobile big, and it's on Pop for being unable to figure out a strategy against it(even though it would be difficult)..

Expecting a 34-year old C with tons of mileage to be a good p&r defender is absolutely ridiculous..

As for Nash..he doesn't have nearly as much mileage, he's only played 1 side of the floor his entire career and he's thrived in an era with relatively low physical contact against perimeter players..not hating on Nash, but it's completely different..

[MaNu4Tres]

As for Nash..he doesn't have nearly as much mileage, he's only played 1 side of the floor his entire career and he's thrived in an era with relatively low physical contact against perimeter players..not hating on Nash, but it's completely different..

Running around with 175 pounds weighing on the legs for 14 years is a lot less detrimental than 260 pounds on the hardwood for 13 years. That is the main reason why agility and quickness goes away a lot sooner for big men opposed to guards. IMO

[rayray2k8]

Tim isn't getting younger guys. There are so many miles on him that it's not even funny. Duncan next year will be a starter but he'll be a role player. If the spurs keep his minutes down, Duncan will be able to help contribute in the coming years depending on how long his knee's can hold out.

[Ocotillo]

Remember how the national media types used to trash David Robinson, calling him soft or the little mermaid? They have been waiting for the day Duncan loses a step so start looking for the same treatment going forward.

that is unless they can somehow grab another :lobt:

[Blackjack]

Harlem summed it up pretty well but it's really not all that hard and it's not worth taking the time to right some dissertation on the subject.

Tim was asked to guard point-guards and perimeter players on an island after the switch. No shit he couldn't guard that well. How many 6-11 players, regardless of age, can do anything more than force a jump shot? That's literally just about the best you can do in that situation -- get out too far they blow by for a layup ... sag off you concede the jumper. You take the jumper every time.

Judging Tim's ability to guard players on the perimeter -- on a island -- would be like judging a perimeter defender on his performance playing behind a post player in the paint. It's ridiculous.

And I heard people bitching in the game blog about Tim not contesting some layups by Nash . . . Well, if he rotates, he's getting dunked on and he's possibly picking up a foul. The guy's in a lose-lose situation and these people are going to kill him whatever the outcome. Like I said ... it's ridiculous.

Tim did just about all you could ask from him defensively under the circumstance, yet I see this type of garbage posted by fans and, even worse, by people that are paid to actually know what they're talking about.

It's common sense; having it seems anything but common . . .

[venitian navigator]

I Hope that next year bigs are : Duncan - Splitter
Blair - Mahinmi
Bonner - Dice
Plenty of time to : rest Duncan/Dice
See if Splitter is the answer
Develop Blair and Mahinmi

Bonner like an insurance big that knows the system and plays in when ther's the absolute need to stretch the floor can still be a good option...maybe also in play off time (see last two games).

[Mixability]

that late 4th quarter layup by a one eyed Nash was pretty disgusting to see, since Duncan was practically frozen under the basket.

[HarlemHeat37]

Abbott isn't a Duncan basher btw, he's written some good pieces about Tim before..he was also one of the contributors to the article about the value of Duncan's blocks earlier in the season, so it seems like he has really high expectations for Duncan, even though it seems kind of stupid IMO..

[Blackjack]

that late 4th quarter layup by a one eyed Nash was pretty disgusting to see, since Duncan was practically frozen under the basket.

You wouldn't be talking about a play in which he had to choose between leaving Amar'e and contesting Nash, would you?


Abbott isn't a Duncan basher btw, he's written some good pieces about Tim before..he was also one of the contributors to the article about the value of Duncan's blocks earlier in the season, so it seems like he has really high expectations for Duncan, even though it seems kind of stupid IMO..

I don't think Abbott's done anything to suggest he's a Duncan hater in the time I've read him, but this is one of his poorer takes. Ridiculous, really.

Al Horford wasn't going to anchor this Spurs defense as well as Tim. In fact, without really thinking about it, I'm not sure there are more than 2 to 4 pivots that could do a better job than Tim did.

But because the Suns killed the Spurs with small ball and did the smart thing by going at Tim -- probably their most favorable advantage at the time -- all of a sudden Tim's a liability. Yeah, he's a liability in that circumstance. But that circumstance wouldn't exist if they had the ability to make a post-entry pass in Game 2, they actually made a point of getting him the ball (regardless of his free-throw shooting) and they used more movement and had the requisite spacing to free him up and open lanes/shots for his teammates.

It's not some revelation the Spurs were flawed and that the talent was a bit ill-fitted -- I was just talking to El Nono about a conversation we had in January on the subject and I started a thread on the same thing after a Chicago loss in the second game of the season. That's not to extol my basketball acumen -- I certainly wasn't the only one -- but anyone who follows the game would be aware of that. To say Tim should've destroyed this team offensively and not take that into account or the reality of his game at 34-years-old, is just foolish.

The Suns were a nightmare matchup for the Spurs because of their personnel and style of play. It's a simple as that -- how is it that the biggest discrepancy between the two teams was the bench and their three-point shooting but Duncan's "ineptitude" defensively is the takeaway?

[TDfan2007]

Tim's defense this series was pretty solid. He couldn't have defended Amare any better, and averaged about 3 blocks per game. I was hoping for a better performance on the boards, but that was it. His pick and roll defense was as good as you'll see from a 34-year-old big man.

Tim's offense was the biggest disappointment to me. No fluidity in his moves, weak shots, an inability to back down CHANNING FRYE, horrendous FT shooting, and the disappearance of his bank shot/jumper. Offensively he was pretty much useless outside of pick and roll situations and even then he wasn't as effective as he should have been. It was really weird to see. Tim was bobbling passes and travelling after a catch in ways that I've rarely seen before. His hands and footwork have always been top notch and shouldn't just disappear with age.

I personally think losing all that weight killed his post game. It stopped him from getting good position. But his knees probably would've given out earlier had he not lost the weight so who knows...

So yeah, defensively he played well enough for us to win, but Tim was nowhere near effective enough offensively. I guess we can't expect him to be anymore :depressed

[senorglory]

I agree w/ Mr. Abbot.

Well, then with all due respect, you may suck my balls as well.

[senorglory]

It's one thing to argue that Duncan's skill-set has declined, but quite another to call him a "defensive liability." Calling Duncan a liability is purposefully antagonistic, and completely unsubstantiated. No longer has the mobility to cover both picker and roller? To guard perimeter and interior? That would make him average at worse.

"Liability on defense" would mean that team defense suffers for having Duncan out there. Anyone want to make that argument? Negate his 11 blocks in round 2? His steals? Discount all the rotations he did make? So far Abbot and Arnovitz have only made an argument that Duncan is no longer superlative.

Does anyone imagine that the other Spurs players are sitting at home right now, thinking, Man, if only Duncan weren't such a defensive liability. What an asshole.?

[da_suns_fan]

Every player on the team was a defensive liability.. we got killed with constant bad defensive rotations. :|

I think thats overblown..the Suns scored 19 points in the first quarter in games 3 and 4. Nash had a ton of turnovers. I thought the Spurs defense was good enough, I thought they just missed a lot of shots and thats why the series was so short.

[spurs1990]

Tim Done-cun

You fanboys need to believe your lying eyes.

[Supergirl]

The Mavs series was a drain on Manu and Tim -- and it showed against the Suns. Those guys aren't getting any younger.

Nash is a couple of years older than Timmy, which makes what he did that much more impressive.

Yeah, but Nash doesn't play as hard as either of those guys, he makes most of his shots from the outside. Jumpshooters always last longer in the NBA than big man, because of the beatdown their bodies take. And Manu beats his body down just by his style of play.

Also, Nash's main offensive plan is to see how much he can get away with, how many extra steps he can take on every play. He does it quite well.

I agree with the first statement though - Duncan and Manu both looked worn down in the Suns' series. it's like the Mavs series forced them to run out of gas after about 24 min in every game of the next series. It's a serious problem for the offseason.

[Jason R]

Duncan could have made up for sucking on defense (and he did suck) by being aggressive offensively. But would he attack? NO! Would he demand the ball when his guards were taking bad threes and couldn't get in the lane or couldn't finish? No he would not!

Duncan played like a passive weenie and his team followed suit. So, we are where we are. We'll try to implement Mahinmi next season and hopefully get a young wing who can stroke it a little bit as but as far as this past series...Duncan and his guys just didn't want it bad enough.

Ever think, maybe he couldn't?

[Sisk]

Abbott chose the Spurs in both series, BTW

[jonnybravo]

Remember how the national media types used to trash David Robinson, calling him soft or the little mermaid? They have been waiting for the day Duncan loses a step so start looking for the same treatment going forward.

that is unless they can somehow grab another :lobt:

Good grief, Tim Duncan is almost universally heralded as the top 4 of all time and beloved by the media. That is so contrived it's absurd.

[senorglory]

Abbott chose the Spurs in both series, BTW

Maybe he's just depressed, and lashing out then.



Like me. :(

[Sisk]

Maybe he's just depressed, and lashing out then.



Like me. :(

Could be. Dallas got everyones hopes up, like mine, and the Suns came in and crushed them.

[Budkin]

I'm pretty sure Abbott is a big fan of the Spurs, so I'm guessing he's just disappointed like the rest of us are.

[Ghazi]

lol @ Dirk being the most disappointing player in the playoffs.