Does Lebron need another established player?

[TheMACHINE]

I just don't understand. He's a 2 time MVP, arguably the best player in the game teamed up with a 4xChampion, most dominant ever center. He has a legitimant and i believe pretty established All-star Forward in Antawn Jamison who they practically got for free. He has an All-Star point-guard in Mo Williams. He has a former All Star back up center in Big Z. He practically has the best 3 point shooters surrounding him.

Does Lebron need another established #1 guy ala Dirk, Dwyane, Carmello, Howard to get him to ATLEAST the Finals again? Or is he just not finding a way to use his teammates full potential?

[Thunder Dan]

he has everything he needs, he just choked this year. He doesn't need anyone else. If anything, he makes the rest of the team look bad when he pounds the ball and puts them in a position to fail with a run down shot clock

[lefty]

Another established player?

Ne needs another star

And by other star, I don't mean washed up Shaq.

MJ had Pippen
Kobe had a younger Shaq, and now Gasol
Duncan had Robinson, then he had Ginobili


Mo Williams is an overrated POS who disappears as the playoff advance, Jamison is a good scorer, but that's it, Shaq is not what he used to be.

Actually, every Cavalier not named LBJ is a good role player


So this is what the Cavs need:

- another star, because they already have good role players

and


and


A REAL coach ! Mike Brown is the worst in the business, the worst

[Thunder Dan]

since when is Antawn Jamison a role player?

[picc84]

Of course he doesn't. Only Kobe needs help. :lol

[TheMACHINE]

Another established player?

Ne needs another star

And by other star, I don't mean washed up Shaq.

MJ had Pippen
Kobe had a younger Shaq, and now Gasol
Duncan had Robinson, then he had Ginobili


Mo Williams is an overrated POS who disappears as the playoff advance, Jamison is a good scorer, but that's it, Shaq is not what he used to be.

Actually, every Cavalier not named LBJ is a good role player


So this is what the Cavs need:

- another star, because they already have good role players

and


and


A REAL coach ! Mike Brown is the worst in the business, the worst

What kind of star? Antawn jamison not enough? or does it have to be a Melo kind of star.

Yes, Kobe has Gasol, but keep in mind before Gasol went to LA, Gasol was a 1x all star who hasnt even won a playoff game...very similar to the level of jamison.

This quote from yahoo says it best:
"Yet make no mistake: James has enough around him. This team isn’t perfect, isn’t assured of beating the Los Angeles Lakers, but it has no business losing in the conference semifinals – never mind failing to even compete. And, yes, as much as ever, this is on James."

[ChrisRichards]

Yes. Lebron needs at least a legitimate second option. Im talking about a guy who can clearly score when Lebron is off. Kobe has one. Pierce had one. Wade had one. Bosh would be good.


Problem with Cleveland is they are a team full of followers and washed up superstars and the only player who has the audacity to take shots away from bron is a no good chucker named MO. I mean, Shaq, Z and Jamison are past father time by NBA standards.


Oh and also change the damn freaking coach. jordan didnt win shit with doug collins, so i dont expect lebron to carry mr. potato head into a championship.

[TheMACHINE]

Yes. Lebron needs at least a legitimate second option. Im talking about a guy who can clearly score when Lebron is off. Kobe has one. Pierce had one. Wade had one. Bosh would be good.


Problem with Cleveland is they are a team full of followers and washed up superstars and the only player who has the audacity to take shots away from bron is a no good chucker named MO. I mean, Shaq, Z and Jamison are past father time by NBA standards.


Oh and also change the damn freaking coach. jordan didnt win shit with doug collins, so i dont expect lebron to carry mr. potato head into a championship.

So his current team isnt good enough to past the semi's?

[SpursFanFirst]

:lol Gearing up for the Cavs to be knocked out?

Give me a break. All season long, people have been talking about how great this team is, and how deep, not to mention, they had the best record in the league. Yet now that the Celtics aren't rolling over and dying, this discussion begins.

[lefty]

What kind of star? Antawn jamison not enough? or does it have to be a Melo kind of star.

Yes, Kobe has Gasol, but keep in mind before Gasol went to LA, Gasol was a 1x all star who hasnt even won a playoff game...very similar to the level of jamison.

This quote from yahoo says it best:
"Yet make no mistake: James has enough around him. This team isn’t perfect, isn’t assured of beating the Los Angeles Lakers, but it has no business losing in the conference semifinals – never mind failing to even compete. And, yes, as much as ever, this is on James."
Don't get me wrong, I like Antwan, but he is not a real star like Scottie, Shaq or D-Rob used to be.

I'm not saying that having 2 superstars is mandatory - let's not forget the 1994 Rockets - but it works most of the time

[Pero]

What kind of star? Antawn jamison not enough? or does it have to be a Melo kind of star.


Jamison isn't a star at this point in his career.

[JamStone]

I just don't understand. He's a 2 time MVP, arguably the best player in the game teamed up with a 4xChampion, most dominant ever center. He has a legitimant and i believe pretty established All-star Forward in Antawn Jamison who they practically got for free. He has an All-Star point-guard in Mo Williams. He has a former All Star back up center in Big Z. He practically has the best 3 point shooters surrounding him.

Does Lebron need another established #1 guy ala Dirk, Dwyane, Carmello, Howard to get him to ATLEAST the Finals again? Or is he just not finding a way to use his teammates full potential?


You paint a pretty biased picture. Shaq is like 40 years old and is no longer a big impact player, plus Mike Brown uses him sparingly. Jamison is a career loser. Solid player but he's never helped a team win. Most of his better statistical years were on shitty teams putting up empty stats. Mo Williams is not a real all star, didn't really deserve to be. Plus, he's a much worse playoff choker than LeBron. Mike Brown doesn't even play Z really. LeBron's best teammate is actually Varejao and he'll never be anything more than a defensive role player.

LeBron does have very good three point shooting around him. And the Cavs as a team play pretty good defense. But his help, while better than he's ever had, still isn't that great. Take LeBron off of the Cavs, that team would be fighting for a playoff spot in the Eastern Conference, probably missing the playoffs. LeBron is the only reason they get as far as they do.

But to answer the question, does LeBron need another established player to make it back to the Finals, I think the answer is no. LeBron is capable of getting back to the Finals without another true superstar player. Will he this year? Looks doubtful, but he doesn't need another established star to do it. It certainly would help though.

[Pero]

This quote from yahoo says it best:
"Yet make no mistake: James has enough around him. This team isn’t perfect, isn’t assured of beating the Los Angeles Lakers, but it has no business losing in the conference semifinals – never mind failing to even compete. And, yes, as much as ever, this is on James."

But yeah I agree with that.

[TheMACHINE]

:lol Gearing up for the Cavs to be knocked out?

Give me a break. All season long, people have been talking about how great this team is, and how deep, not to mention, they had the best record in the league. Yet now that the Celtics aren't rolling over and dying, this discussion begins.


Jamison isn't a star at this point in his career.



BTW...when they got All-Star Jamison, who did they give up for him?

Here's Antawn Jamison numbers with the Wiz this year:

2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

[ChrisRichards]

What kind of star? Antawn jamison not enough? or does it have to be a Melo kind of star.

Yes, Kobe has Gasol, but keep in mind before Gasol went to LA, Gasol was a 1x all star who hasnt even won a playoff game...very similar to the level of jamison.

This quote from yahoo says it best:
"Yet make no mistake: James has enough around him. This team isn’t perfect, isn’t assured of beating the Los Angeles Lakers, but it has no business losing in the conference semifinals – never mind failing to even compete. And, yes, as much as ever, this is on James."
forget the quotes from yahoo its bs. its from the same source that called kobe washed up, you agree with that?

jamison is a broken ass star.

let me show you

http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/Other/Arcturus/Arcturus_rel_size782.jpg


kobe had a shaq kinda star (Arcturus) then he has a (Pollux) in Pau Gasol

Lebron has no one but asteroids in his team.

[LnGrrrR]

Did anyone listen to Cowherd today? He was talking about how Lebron had the right to not play well and see if his teammates could step up, because he had an important business decision. I would never hire Cowherd for my company. :lol

So if Cowherd isn't feeling respected enough, he's just going to go on the air and do a crappy job? Not to mention the pathos of Cleveland's sports scene, and Lebron saying he would do everything to get them a championship.

Cowherd is a frigging putz.

[j-money24]

since when is Antawn Jamison a role player?

It's the excuses they make up to say LeBron doesn't have enough help.

[SpursFanFirst]

It's the excuses they make up to say LeBron doesn't have enough help.

Next thing you know, they'll be saying the Cavs didn't advance because LeBron was injured.
Please. When will people stop making excuses for this guy?

[Pero]

BTW...when they got All-Star Jamison, who did they give up for him?

Here's Antawn Jamison numbers with the Wiz this year:

2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg


I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything like that, just think he's not as good as you're making him.

[SpursFanFirst]

Did anyone listen to Cowherd today? He was talking about how Lebron had the right to not play well and see if his teammates could step up, because he had an important business decision.

Sounds like a Kobe move.

[TheMACHINE]

Once again guys:

Jamison
2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

Keep in mind that this was an addition without subtraction trade. Everyone one of us would have jumped for joy if we got Jamison in our team.


Jamison is a career loser. Solid player but he's never helped a team win. Most of his better statistical years were on shitty teams putting up empty stats.

Similar to Gasol?

[poop]

james just doesnt have 'it'.

hes like the human form of the dallas mavericks. puts up big numbers and always looks impressive in the regular season then just cant finish it out.
when other players' killer instincts emerge, he just cant match them and collapses.

hes just the best example of these 'all-athleticism' players. him, dwight howard, amare, etc...they get their numbers because of their freakish bodies and superhuman natural abilities. their minds and their fundamental skills and knowledge never has to develop, so once their athleticism wanes their numbers and careers will fall off a steep cliff.

[Thunder Dan]

Did anyone listen to Cowherd today? He was talking about how Lebron had the right to not play well and see if his teammates could step up, because he had an important business decision. I would never hire Cowherd for my company. :lol

So if Cowherd isn't feeling respected enough, he's just going to go on the air and do a crappy job? Not to mention the pathos of Cleveland's sports scene, and Lebron saying he would do everything to get them a championship.

Cowherd is a frigging putz.

Lebron is only worried about how much money he can suck away from the middle class. He doesn't give a shit about winning anything.

[JoeTait75]

People need to stop giving this guy a crutch. He has a deep, talented team around him. If he can't get it done with this group it's on him- especially considering how horrendously he's playing. Other guys have won more with less. I don't think Tim Duncan's supporting cast in 2003 was much, if any, better than LeBron's this year.

Some guys have what it takes and some guys don't. It appears LeBron is in the second category.

[lefty]

Once again guys:

Jamison
2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

Keep in mind that this was an addition without subtraction trade. Everyone one of us would have jumped for joy if we got Jamison in our team.



Similar to Gasol?

Wizards? :wtf

[TheMACHINE]

I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything like that, just think he's not as good as you're making him.

Well, thats the point of my thread. If a "Jamison" type player is not enough, then does Lebron need a DWade/Melo type All-Star?

[lefty]

Wizards? :wtf
Scratch that

I thought those were his playoffs stats :lol

[Pero]

Similar to Gasol?

Even though he didn't have any success there, Gasol did lead his team to the playoffs in the West.
Had a feeling this was what this thread was actually about, Kobefan. :lol

[lefty]

People need to stop giving this guy a crutch. He has a deep, talented team around him. If he can't get it done with this group it's on him- especially considering how horrendously he's playing. Other guys have won more with less. I don't think Tim Duncan's supporting cast in 2003 was much, if any, better than LeBron's this year.

Some guys have what it takes and some guys don't. It appears LeBron is in the second category.
Duncan had a much better team in 2003

But the most important thing is to get rid of Mike Brown; he blows

[TheMACHINE]

Even though he didn't have any success there, Gasol did lead his team to the playoffs in the West.
Had a feeling this was what this thread was actually about, Kobefan. :lol

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?

Jamison led his team to the playoffs in the East too right?

[JamStone]

Similar to Gasol?

No. Gasol led a pretty average team to 50 wins and multiple times to the playoffs in the competitive Western Conference.

When Jamison was the franchise player on the Warriors, they were shit. The times he made it to the playoffs, he came off the bench for the Mavs or was the third best player on the Wizards.

Decidedly different.

[JamStone]

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?

Jamison led his team to the playoffs in the East too right?

No.

[Thunder Dan]

people will be asking whether Lebron has enough around him 10 years from now....dude is just not a winner. He cares more about off court activities than winning. He wants to have what Jordan built off the court without doing what Jordan did on the court. Lebron's team is fine this year, they are built around him playing at a high level, and he stopped doing that. He quit

[ChrisRichards]

Wizards? :wtf
qft. lottery team=great numbers.


also jamison is not being utilized by brown very well.

[Pero]

Well, thats the point of my thread. If a "Jamison" type player is not enough, then does Lebron need a DWade/Melo type All-Star?

IMO he's good enough that he shouldn't need one. Maybe he'd need a better coach more than another star. I mean, 13 out of the last 14 champhionships (or more) were won by hall of fame coaches.

[TheMACHINE]

No. Gasol led a pretty average team to 50 wins and multiple times to the playoffs in the competitive Western Conference.

When Jamison was the franchise player on the Warriors, they were shit. The times he made it to the playoffs, he came off the bench for the Mavs or was the third best player on the Wizards.

Decidedly different.

so you're take is that Lebron doesnt need a crazy all star but needs a star in between better then Jamison....ala Joe Johnson?

[ChrisRichards]

IMO he's good enough that he shouldn't need one. Maybe he'd need a better coach more than another star. I mean, 13 out of the last 14 champhionships (or more) were won by hall of fame coaches.
So, just like Kobe and MJ, he need Phil.

[Pero]

Duncan had a much better team in 2003

I don't think so. Maybe as a team with how they played they were better, but individually probably not. But then like you say, Cavs have a worse coach than the Spurs did, so maybe that tips the balance in the Spurs favor quite a bit.

[Pero]

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?


Sure. :)

[SpursFanFirst]

He wants to have what Jordan built off the court without doing what Jordan did on the court.

Exactly.
This has been my issue with him from the beginning.
People are so desperate for there to be another Jordan, they've been heaping praise on James from the beginning.
Win something first, guy.
:bang I will never understand the obsession with this man.

[TheMACHINE]

I think all this talk is happening cuz this elimination is happening during the second round.

[Pero]

people will be asking whether Lebron has enough around him 10 years from now....dude is just not a winner.
...

This is my feeling also, he's more of a business man than a player.

[JamStone]

so you're take is that Lebron doesnt need a crazy all star but needs a star in between better then Jamison....ala Joe Johnson?

No, that is not my take.

My take was pretty clear that LeBron doesn't need another established star to get back to the NBA Finals. He may not get there this year, but he's capable of getting a team to the Finals without one. Having one would obviously help, but is not necessary.

That said, your comparison of Jamison to Gasol is a weak one. Two different players at two different stages of their career when they joined LeBron and and Kobe, respectively. Jamison is 33 years old, almost 34, and is a 6'8-ish, undersized power forward who mostly stays on the perimeter on offense. Gasol was 28 in 2008 when he was traded to the Lakers and is a 7-foot power forward who while playing soft at times, is an effective and productive low post scorer and due to size and length is a much better defender.

LeBron getting Jamison is nowhere near the same as Kobe getting Gasol. Jamison now is not the same type of star as Gasol in 2008.

[anonoftheinternets]

Once again guys:

Jamison
2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

Keep in mind that this was an addition without subtraction trade. Everyone one of us would have jumped for joy if we got Jamison in our team.



Similar to Gasol?

so lakers would be okay with gasol for jamison swap?

[TheMACHINE]

No, that is not my take.

My take was pretty clear that LeBron doesn't need another established star to get back to the NBA Finals. He may not get there this year, but he's capable of getting a team to the Finals without one. Having one would obviously help, but is not necessary.

That said, your comparison of Jamison to Gasol is a weak one. Two different players at two different stages of their career when they joined LeBron and and Kobe, respectively. Jamison is 33 years old, almost 34, and is a 6'8-ish, undersized power forward who mostly stays on the perimeter on offense. Gasol was 28 in 2008 when he was traded to the Lakers and is a 7-foot power forward who while playing soft at times, is an effective and productive low post scorer and due to size and length is a much better defender.

LeBron getting Jamison is nowhere near the same as Kobe getting Gasol. Jamison now is not the same type of star as Gasol in 2008.

fine...ill accept your gasol/jamison take. So you think Lebron can take this same set of teamates to the finals if we were to redo the playoffs?

[ChrisRichards]

Come on jamstoned, you dont really believe that ish. THis is not 2004 no more. Every team nowadays are stacking up with major talent. The rich are definitely getting richer. Lebron is stupendously amazing but he still needs a legit second option.

[TheMACHINE]

so lakers would be okay with gasol for jamison swap?

i think Kobe and the Lakers would find a way to utilize him and get the maximum efficiency out of him. Definately not fail in the 2nd round.

So are you saying that jamison is not good?

[picc84]

Jamison isn't a star, but Bynum, Odom, and Artest all are. :lmao

[TheMACHINE]

Jamison isn't a star, but Bynum, Odom, and Artest all are. :lmao

Thats what i dont get too. I understand every team is different and so is every player, but Lebrons team isnt a bunch of Scrubs...they got the #1 record and James got MVP for a reason.

Thats why i asked the original question. If James cant win with teamates like he has now, i'd figure he needs a Wade caliber star to help him.

[JamStone]

fine...ill accept your gasol/jamison take. So you think Lebron can take this same set of teamates to the finals if we were to redo the playoffs?

Yes. "Can" as in is "capable of."

Say we were able to simulate these playoffs with all the same factors and scenarios 10 times, all the same circumstances, injuries, opponents, coaching decisions.

I'd estimate that LeBron and this same set of teammates would make it to the NBA Finals 6 or 7 times out of those 10 times. Right now, this is one of those other 3-4 times they probably won't.

[lefty]

Thats what i dont get too. I understand every team is different and so is every player, but Lebrons team isnt a bunch of Scrubs...they got the #1 record and James got MVP for a reason.

Thats why i asked the original question. If James cant win with teamates like he has now, i'd figure he needs a Wade caliber star to help him.
Eastern conference

[JamStone]

Jamison isn't a star, but Bynum, Odom, and Artest all are. :lmao

The comparison made wasn't Jamison with Bynum, Odom, and Artest.

The comparison made was Jamison with Pau Gasol.

[TheMACHINE]

Yes. "Can" as in is "capable of."

Say we were able to simulate these playoffs with all the same factors and scenarios 10 times, all the same circumstances, injuries, opponents, coaching decisions.

I'd estimate that LeBron and this same set of teammates would make it to the NBA Finals 6 or 7 times out of those 10 times. Right now, this is one of those other 3-4 times they probably won't.

so in essence, the "lebron doesnt have teamates" excuse doesnt hold truth this year.

[j.dizzle]

I gotta question....How come Cle used to OWN Boston at the Q last year & the year before when they were a lot less deeper? Now with a much better team they get abused 2 times there in one series, shit is weird hahaa...I know Rondo is better now but the big 3 is not as good as they were & Bostons bench used to be better.

[Pero]

so in essence, the "lebron doesnt have teamates" excuse doesnt hold truth this year.

Yup.

[anonoftheinternets]

i think Kobe and the Lakers would find a way to utilize him and get the maximum efficiency out of him. Definately not fail in the 2nd round.

So are you saying that jamison is not good?

so is kobe the coach of LA to "utilize" jamison correctly, or is PJ?
so the question you want to ask is, Does Cleveland need a real coach? I agree, yes they do.

[lefty]

so in essence, the "lebron doesnt have teamates" excuse doesnt hold truth this year.
To be fair, he needs help to survive the Boston Tea Party

[JamStone]

so in essence, the "lebron doesnt have teamates" excuse doesnt hold truth this year.

Shrugs, sure.

If that was your point, I wouldn't really call you on it. It's one way of looking at it. I don't view things in absolutes. Each year, things have to fall into place almost perfectly for a team to win it all. Sometimes, it's bad luck, injuries, a bad bounce. Sometimes a superstar player just has a poor playoff performance in a few games that costs a series.

I don't think LeBron's teammates are all that great, but I do think LeBron is good enough individually that he "could" get the team he has now to the NBA Finals in the east. But I'll put it like this, I think if you put LeBron on a team like the Atlanta Hawks or Milwaukee Bucks (with a healthy Bogut), he "could" get to the NBA Finals with those teams too. My saying LeBron could get to the Finals with this Cavs team doesn't really speak on how "good" his teammates are. It speaks more to how good I think LeBron is. But that doesn't necessarily mean if he doesn't get to the NBA Finals, LeBron is a choker or just doesn't have enough to lead a team to a title. It could just as well mean things didn't fall into place for them to make a title run.

I'm not who brought up any excuse for LeBron. He played poorly last night. It's not like when you're the best player in the league, it's easy to win every year, year after year. That's a perception based on the Michael Jordan standard. Duncan and Shaq and Kobe have been the best players the past decade and they each have had their struggles in the playoffs even when they were favored or should have gone further than they did. It happens.

[picc84]

The comparison made wasn't Jamison with Bynum, Odom, and Artest.

The comparison made was Jamison with Pau Gasol.

Oh, I know. I just think its funny that people refer to the Lakers as the "most stacked team in the league, by far" because of "allstars" like Bynum, Odom, and Artest, but Antawn Jamison, Shaq, Mo Williams, etc. are all scrubs despite putting up the same or better numbers. :toast

I'm 100% sure that if either of those three played for the Cavs, they'd have even worse numbers than they do now.

[JamStone]

i think Kobe and the Lakers would find a way to utilize him and get the maximum efficiency out of him. Definately not fail in the 2nd round.

So are you saying that jamison is not good?

If the Lakers replace Pau Gasol with Antawn Jamison, I don't think the Lakers beat the Jazz. I know it was a sweep, but most of the games were relatively close until game 4 and Boozer and Millsap would have feasted on Jamison.

[mogrovejo]

Jamison is an inefficient volume scorer + below average rebounder + bad passer + one of the worst defenders in the league.

He had an excellent season in Dallas, where he showed he could be a high-level 6th man (guarding lesser players, with a much reduced usage rate).

He's the Jamal Crawford of the bigs.

[Allanon]

No. Gasol led a pretty average team to 50 wins and multiple times to the playoffs in the competitive Western Conference.

When Jamison was the franchise player on the Warriors, they were shit. The times he made it to the playoffs, he came off the bench for the Mavs or was the third best player on the Wizards.

Decidedly different.

Just stop. Please :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Thats what i dont get too. I understand every team is different and so is every player, but Lebrons team isnt a bunch of Scrubs...they got the #1 record and James got MVP for a reason.

Thats why i asked the original question. If James cant win with teamates like he has now, i'd figure he needs a Wade caliber star to help him.

I think he just needs someone who is efficient, like how Houston got Kevin Martin, they need someone like that, just healthier. Still, there is absolutely no reason to be trailing an old ass Boston team

[TheNextGen]

I guess the Cavs were dumb to do a trade for Jamison. What a scrub. Lebron probably does need a Wade type star.

Finals, ECF exit, and now 2nd round. If he stays, he'll be out in the first round even if they get him a few more all-stars.

[TheNextGen]

No reason for this current team not to be ATLEAST 7 games into the ECF.

[Native American]

Beware of the predator who uses genius techniques to bait prey. You can look all around nature to see how predators use innovative ways to bait prey. There is the mountain lion that has mastered this skill. After a kill the lion feeds on only about three-fourths of the kill for the next few days. At that point, the mountain lion will drag the carcass towards an open area and generally by some nearby rocks. There the mountain lion hides and waits patiently for other hungry predators that might happen to cross and smell the blood. When those scavengers start to feed, the mountain lion will fiercely attack them. Now the mountain lion can feed for weeks on those baited prey. By that I mean be wary of LeBron for he may merely be baiting the Celtics and the rest of the NBA and is waiting to strike for the kill, for LeBron is a skilled master-baiter.

[TheMACHINE]

Beware of the predator who uses genius techniques to bait prey. You can look all around nature to see how predators use innovative ways to bait prey. There is the mountain lion that has mastered this skill. After a kill the lion feeds on only about three-fourths of the kill for the next few days. At that point, the mountain lion will drag the carcass towards an open area and generally by some nearby rocks. There the mountain lion hides and waits patiently for other hungry predators that might happen to cross and smell the blood. When those scavengers start to feed, the mountain lion will fiercely attack them. Now the mountain lion can feed for weeks on those baited prey. By that I mean be wary of LeBron for he may merely be baiting the Celtics and the rest of the NBA and is waiting to strike for the kill, for LeBron is a skilled master-baiter.

King Master-Baiter ftw. Lebron wins games 6 and 7 and I eat crow.

[Native American]

Shut the fuck up and do a rain dance or some shit. James is the prey in your stupid little scenario.

The gold frog often avoids land and stays primarily on or nearby water. This is an evolved behavior due to predators. With gold and purplish black spots, the gold frog is a very appealing meal for the black snake. The gold frog has a hard time traveling around land with the black snake all up in the grass. And by that I mean lakaluva has a hard time walking with Kobe all up in his ass.

[anonoftheinternets]

lol native american ftw...

[Gutter92]

2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg


:lol

RJ averaged like 20 ppg before we got him..

[Agloco]

I just don't understand. He's a 2 time MVP, arguably the best player in the game teamed up with a 4xChampion, most dominant ever center. He has a legitimant and i believe pretty established All-star Forward in Antawn Jamison who they practically got for free. He has an All-Star point-guard in Mo Williams. He has a former All Star back up center in Big Z. He practically has the best 3 point shooters surrounding him.

Does Lebron need another established #1 guy ala Dirk, Dwyane, Carmello, Howard to get him to ATLEAST the Finals again? Or is he just not finding a way to use his teammates full potential?

Yeah, yeah.... and if they put Russell out there he'd have an 11-time NBA champion by his side right? :rolleyes

I'm as big a LeBron hater as anyone, but your argument for him having everything he needs is horseshit. Take LeBron off that squad and the only thing they contend for is the lottery.

And, lol @ former and one-time all stars.

[mingus]

Once again guys:

Jamison
2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

Keep in mind that this was an addition without subtraction trade. Everyone one of us would have jumped for joy if we got Jamison in our team.



Similar to Gasol?

Gasol carried his team to the playoffs twice, nevermind the fact that you just compared a top-10 player in the NBA to Antawn Jameson, which is just plain retarded.

[Pero]

:lol

RJ averaged like 20 ppg before we got him..

Good point. :lmao

[mingus]

Jameson is a nice player, but he's a third option on a champiosnhip team. still, i think the Cavs will make it to the Finals and give themselves a chance to win. the series isn't lost yet. if they win, no one remember anything about how Lebron choked.

[JamStone]

Just stop. Please :lol


Stop what? More specific please.

[TheMACHINE]

Gasol carried his team to the playoffs twice, nevermind the fact that you just compared a top-10 player in the NBA to Antawn Jameson, which is just plain retarded.

oh Gasol was a top 10 players in 2007. Really?

[TheMACHINE]

Yeah, yeah.... and if they put Russell out there he'd have an 11-time NBA champion by his side right? :rolleyes

I'm as big a LeBron hater as anyone, but your argument for him having everything he needs is horseshit. Take LeBron off that squad and the only thing they contend for is the lottery.

And, lol @ former and one-time all stars.

oh so you knew they were gonna lose in the 2nd round this whole year?

[mogrovejo]

Jamison is similar to Gasol the same way Jamal Crawford is similar to Manu Ginobili or Joe Johnson.

Are these guys really this retarded?

[boston.balla]

lebron sure needs one good thing. A coach capable of making a team cause cavs ain't playing like one. It's almost crazy to think how lebron would develop under a great coach like pop for example.

Cavs are getting out-coached in all series. The result is they get exposed and when you get exposed it's even harder to play good ball. Lebron basically had one bad game. Cavs are simply not coached well, they've got no identity, that cocksucked mike brown can not even motivate the fucking team ( props to phil on this one, his ONLY great coaching trait tbh).

And LMAO at the q fans booing lebron. If i was in his place even if i win a ring i'd say excuuuse me and gtfo you ungrateful turds and "anything is possible in new york new york"

[Agloco]

oh so you knew they were gonna lose in the 2nd round this whole year?

Yeap. And I'm also the only two time winner of the Powerball lottery...........:rolleyes

What does knowing that have anything to do with what's transpired? If they had made it to the promised land, we'd all be saying what a wonderful supporting cast he has. Why? Because they would have actually supported him when it mattered. Who knows, they still might.

[TheMACHINE]

Yeap. And I'm also the only two time winner of the Powerball lottery...........:rolleyes

What does knowing that have anything to do with what's transpired? If they had made it to the promised land, we'd all be saying what a wonderful supporting cast he has. Why? Because they would have actually supported him when it mattered. Who knows, they still might.

I dont care about "we"...just tell me if you thought the Cavs were going to make the ECF or even the Finals.

[Pero]

And LMAO at the q fans booing lebron. If i was in his place even if i win a ring i'd say excuuuse me and gtfo you ungrateful turds and "anything is possible in new york new york"

Are you freaking kidding me? Cleveland bent over backwards for Lebron. And now he might bend them forward and screw them in the ass by leaving. If anyone is ungrateful it's him.

[TheNextGen]

Are you freaking kidding me? Cleveland bend over backwards for Lebron. And now he might bend them forward and screw them in the ass by leaving. If anyone is ungrateful it's him.

word. The owner did everything he can to get whoever lebron wanted.

[The Franchise]

lebron sure needs one good thing. A coach capable of making a team cause cavs ain't playing like one. It's almost crazy to think how lebron would develop under a great coach like pop for example.

Cavs are getting out-coached in all series. The result is they get exposed and when you get exposed it's even harder to play good ball. Lebron basically had one bad game. Cavs are simply not coached well, they've got no identity, that cocksucked mike brown can not even motivate the fucking team ( props to phil on this one, his ONLY great coaching trait tbh).

And LMAO at the q fans booing lebron. If i was in his place even if i win a ring i'd say excuuuse me and gtfo you ungrateful turds and "anything is possible in new york new york"

That's the biggest problem right there. At times it doesn't even seem like their running an offense. No ball movement and way to much one on one is making them predictable and easier to defend.

[boston.balla]

Are you freaking kidding me? Cleveland bend over backwards for Lebron. And now he might bend them forward and screw them in the ass by leaving. If anyone is ungrateful it's him.

so let me get this straight. You tank to get bron so you're bending yourself as a club to get an awesome player.. seven years ago. You lose booze to fa. In spite of all ineptude this guy brings you a east banner with a roster that makes me scream "these guys have no business being there". You keep a coach that can only coach defensive schemes, that can not motivate shit, that can not coach offense . You throw 20 mil at shaq but you don't trade jj hickson for amare. You draft a B-league in europe in spite of dejaun blair. And yet still you get from this guy the best years in the club HISTORY, back to back 60-win seasons with one of them having 67. You are basically wasting the years of one-of-if-not-the-best player to ever pick a basketball with what: mo williams, 40yo shaq, mike brown?

I agree the fans are awesome but you don't just play for the fans. You also play for your legacy, and when you try and try and try and not get results from (insert from the previous paragraph) you have to try something else. It's valid for all jobs, all domains, all ages.

So come again, who bends who?

[The Franchise]

And LMAO at the q fans booing lebron. If i was in his place even if i win a ring i'd say excuuuse me and gtfo you ungrateful turds and "anything is possible in new york new york"

Even if Bosh goes with him he would have even less of a chance of winning in NY as in CLE. They would have two allstars, and 13 turds.

[boston.balla]

word. The owner did everything he can to get whoever lebron wanted.

The owner should of realized that a winning team starts with a good coach. Lebron is a great player and has a good coaching mind a guess, but when you are on the field you can't keep your cool like when you're on the bench. No matter how cool you are as a player you NEED a coach. Basketball 101 and this mentality starts from the frontoffice, thus your proposition is not quite true.

Talentwise, marketwise it's partially true. Partially cause of booze fa, draft fuckups (eyenga lolwut), hickson too good for amare LOL. I know many don't like lebron but let's keep objective.

[mogrovejo]

Cleveland has yet to put a top-10 player at his position next to LeBron since 05/06. Ilgauskas was one till that season, but other than that, there's nothing.

Maybe a top-15. We aren't talking about an All-NBA type of player, or an All-Star, neither about top-20 in the league, or a top-50 in the league. Just a guy who's a top-15 at his position in the NBA.

[Pero]

...
I agree the fans are awesome but you don't just play for the fans. You also play for your legacy, and when you try and try and try and not get results from (insert from the previous paragraph) you have to try something else. It's valid for all jobs, all domains, all ages.

So come again, who bends who?

I was reffering more to the entire city, not just the franchise. Fans aren't in control of what the franchise does. And dude's been treated like a god. And even if you take just the franchise into account, they still tried to do what it takes, threw money around so he would stay, it just didn't work out as well as it could/should. Or this year, 'it' should mean Lebron.

[boston.balla]

I was reffering more to the entire city, not just the franchise. Fans aren't in control of what the franchise does. And dude's been treated like a god. And even if you take just the franchise into account, they still tried to do what it takes, threw money around so he would stay, it just didn't work out as well as it could/should. Or this year, 'it' should mean Lebron.

I didn't said they didn't try or they didn't treat him well. I said that if everybody tried for quite some time and it did not work then that's that. A change of scenery is needed. If you don't do that you are the mavs. Winning is not easy and not always perfectly moral and equitable for all involved, but even the fans must understand that lebron should change scenery for the sake of basketball history if not for anything else.

Furthermore 27/6/7.5 on 47% is not my definition of not working out for a team. A bad game is a bad game, even with it lebrons' game is mvpesque so whoever will say lebrons the fault is not right.

[HarlemHeat37]

Look at what other guys have..

Dwight, Jameer, Vince and Lewis would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Pau, Kobe, Bynum, Odom and maybe even Artest(arguable, I'm not a fan of his game though) would be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Nash, Stoudemire and Richardson would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Ray Allen would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

This is just the talent we're talking about here..there's still the fact that their defensive frontcourt consists of Shaq and Jamison, arguably the worst defensive starting combo in the NBA..there's still the fact that Mike Brown has little to no ability at calling a good offense..there's still the fact that 3 of the top 5 players(Shaq, Jamison, Williams) are all defensive liabilities..


Cleveland is deep with talent, not top-tier talent, but deep with overall talent..unfortunately, the missing legit 2nd best player and the fact that they're a relatively poorly built team hurts them in the long run..Lebron can't do everything on every night..

[TheMACHINE]

Look at what other guys have..

Dwight, Jameer, Vince and Lewis would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Pau, Kobe, Bynum, Odom and maybe even Artest(arguable, I'm not a fan of his game though) would be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Nash, Stoudemire and Richardson would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Ray Allen would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

This is just the talent we're talking about here..there's still the fact that their defensive frontcourt consists of Shaq and Jamison, arguably the worst defensive starting combo in the NBA..there's still the fact that Mike Brown has little to no ability at calling a good offense..there's still the fact that 3 of the top 5 players(Shaq, Jamison, Williams) are all defensive liabilities..

Question: Why have you been saying Cleveland is gonna win it all year?

[HarlemHeat37]

Orlando has been my pick for a while now..

I still wouldn't be that surprised if Cleveland won it, it's not like they're out yet..the reason I picked them in the top 2 is completely because of Lebron..he's levels above the rest of the NBA..

[Allanon]

This year is playing out just like last year.

Cleveland will win the title. Err, nevermind, Magic will stomp the Lakers.

Result: Kobe #4

This year.

Cleveland will win the title. Err, nevermind, Magic will stomp the Lakers.

Result: Kobe #5

ps. It will be Celtics/Lakers in the Finals

[sook]

People need to stop giving this guy a crutch. He has a deep, talented team around him. If he can't get it done with this group it's on him- especially considering how horrendously he's playing. Other guys have won more with less. I don't think Tim Duncan's supporting cast in 2003 was much, if any, better than LeBron's this year.

Some guys have what it takes and some guys don't. It appears LeBron is in the second category.

i like the cavs, just not lebron and mo.

I think you are absolutely right. What made me hate him was just how disrespectful it was to stir up shit about his free agency when his team is paying him good money right now.

Its like coming to work and talking about joining another company for more money.

Its just arrogant and classless.

Cleveland fans deserve better for him. All he had to do was tell people to shutup and talk about the FA when it comes.

[picc84]

Look at what other guys have..

Dwight, Jameer, Vince and Lewis would all be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..

Pau, Kobe, Bynum, Odom and maybe even Artest(arguable, I'm not a fan of his game though) would be the 2nd best player on Cleveland IMO..


Odom, Bynum, and Artest would all disappear behind a cloud of chalk just like Lebrons other teammates if they went to Cleveland.

I am 100% sure that within 3 months everyone would be talking about how they were all a bunch of scrubs and Lebron has no help as their production dropped even further than it is now and the Cavs went out in the 2nd round.

[mingus]

oh Gasol was a top 10 players in 2007. Really?

i don't know what you're arguing. you're just saying stuff to say stuff.

in 2007 Kobe Bryant did not win an NBA championship. he didn't in in 2008, either, when Gasol was a top-10 player. finally, in 2009, he won and by that time Gasol had established himself as a top-10 player, and probably top 8-7 for that matter.

don't even get into an argument about whether Jameson has Pau's potential (if that's what your trying to do), or could be made into a second option on a championship team. anybody who has any basektball sense can tell you that. Pau is a legit. second option that led his team to a fifty win season one year and then i believe a 48 win season the following year. that destroys your argument that Pau never won anything before LA. And Kobe has done little to improve Pau's game. has he benefited from it? Sure. But Kobe has benefited from Pau as well. that's just naturally what happens when you put two great players together whose game's fit. Pau is actually much the same player offensively as he was in Memphis. defensively is where he's made strides, and Kobe has nothing to do with that.

i don't know why you mentioned '07, really. if you're trying to say that Kobe made Gasol into what he is, that's just plain ridiculous. Gasol has always been better than Jameson. way better, in fact.

hell, it's actually a fact that, when healthy, Andrew Bynum is better than Jameson. i'm pretty sure most people think Bynum > Jameson. a good percentage of people would say Odom > Jameson as well.

[mingus]

btw, i always thought this Cavs team was always built up way too much. i saw them in SA, and thought they were overrated. Lebron, as good as he is (the best in the league), won't be able to get it done without a guy of Gasol's-caliber. he'll need someone like Bosh. however, he can do more with what he's got that anyone in the league,t hat's for sure.

[TheMACHINE]

^^Lebron making his teamates better. hahha....right.

[Sisk]

Did anyone listen to Cowherd today? He was talking about how Lebron had the right to not play well and see if his teammates could step up, because he had an important business decision. I would never hire Cowherd for my company. :lol

So if Cowherd isn't feeling respected enough, he's just going to go on the air and do a crappy job? Not to mention the pathos of Cleveland's sports scene, and Lebron saying he would do everything to get them a championship.

Cowherd is a frigging putz.

Cowherd is one of the most idiotic people on ESPN, and his sexual frustration with Beadle is so obvious it's pathetic.

[Ghazi]

Bynum/Artest 2nd best player on Cleveland? That's debatable

Varejao > Glassnum

Gasol/Odom though... yea I'd say so. but Odom is not exactly lighting it up in the playoffs thus far

[rmt]

i don't know what you're arguing. you're just saying stuff to say stuff.

in 2007 Kobe Bryant did not win an NBA championship. he didn't in in 2008, either, when Gasol was a top-10 player. finally, in 2009, he won and by that time Gasol had established himself as a top-10 player, and probably top 8-7 for that matter.

don't even get into an argument about whether Jameson has Pau's potential (if that's what your trying to do), or could be made into a second option on a championship team. anybody who has any basektball sense can tell you that. Pau is a legit. second option that led his team to a fifty win season one year and then i believe a 48 win season the following year. that destroys your argument that Pau never won anything before LA. And Kobe has done little to improve Pau's game. has he benefited from it? Sure. But Kobe has benefited from Pau as well. that's just naturally what happens when you put two great players together whose game's fit. Pau is actually much the same player offensively as he was in Memphis. defensively is where he's made strides, and Kobe has nothing to do with that.

i don't know why you mentioned '07, really. if you're trying to say that Kobe made Gasol into what he is, that's just plain ridiculous. Gasol has always been better than Jameson. way better, in fact.

hell, it's actually a fact that, when healthy, Andrew Bynum is better than Jameson. i'm pretty sure most people think Bynum > Jameson. a good percentage of people would say Odom > Jameson as well.

I agree. Kobe has a great post player in his prime - something the vast majority of past NBA champions had. The exceptions being Jordan's Bulls and the Pistons. Switch Kobe and Lebron and I would put all of my money on the Cavs not getting the record they had this year and on the Lakers winning the championship. Kobe can just throw the ball near the rim and any one of those 3 seven-footers (2 of which are post players) will put it in. Which team in the league can boast 2 - much less 3 front line players of that quality? Most teams don't even have 1 quality post player and all of them are under 30.

Why do you think Kobe and Phil Jackson keep Fisher around even when he's such a defensive liability? Because they know he can hit the clutch 3 in big playoff moments. They don't care about the regular season. I'd certainly put my money on Fisher instead of any of those 3pt shooters on the Cavs who've never done anything in any important playoff moment.

Can I just mention how crazy Artest is? Every other sane player of his quality in the prime of his career would never take the MLE just to go play for the Lakers. Why didn't he look out for his family? Does he even have a wife and why didn't she set him straight? I guess she must be crazy too - to have married him.

Kobe is sooooooo lucky - Shaq, Fisher, Horry, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest and the 2 most important of all - Phil Jackson (6 time championship coach) and Jerry Buss (owner who will spend). Wish Duncan were so lucky. I'll give you Robinson but Popovich, Parker and Ginobili all had to be developed and Peter Holt - so stingy he'd trade away Scola to get rid of Jackie Butler's contract :-(

Lebron has already taken a team (much worse than the current one) to the NBA finals. Great for us Spurs fans that he didn't even have a jump shot back then. This current Lebron back in 07 and the Spurs wouldn't have swept. I wouldn't trust any of Lebron's current teammates except Shaq and he's sooooo old.

[mingus]

Can I just mention how crazy Artest is? Every other sane player of his quality in the prime of his career would never take the MLE just to go play for the Lakers. Why didn't he look out for his family? Does he even have a wife and why didn't she set him straight? I guess she must be crazy too - to have married him.

wasn't he charged with domestic abuse a couple years ago? yeah, i doubt he gives a shit about his wife.

it always baffled me as to why he signed there. could've made 9-10 mil somewhere else. i guess it's a respectable thing to do. on the other side of the spectrum you've got Joe Johnson's and Carlos Boozers who couldn't care less about winning and just want the money.

[rmt]

wasn't he charged with domestic abuse a couple years ago? yeah, i doubt he gives a shit about his wife.

it always baffled me as to why he signed there. could've made 9-10 mil somewhere else. i guess it's a respectable thing to do. on the other side of the spectrum you've got Joe Johnson's and Carlos Boozers who couldn't care less about winning and just want the money.

Taking much less for a ring is something sane basketball players do at the end of their careers - not when you're under 30. Basketball has a limited earning window. Anything (like career-ending injury) can happen. One doesn't take half of what one can earn. I don't think that's a respectable thing to do - that's just plain stupid/dumb. But we all know he's crazy. Have you seen him on the bench staring off into space (during the playoffs) - not even watching the game?

[redzero]

This quote from yahoo says it best:
"Yet make no mistake: James has enough around him. This team isn’t perfect, isn’t assured of beating the Los Angeles Lakers, but it has no business losing in the conference semifinals – never mind failing to even compete. And, yes, as much as ever, this is on James."


Which completely discredits the Celtics.

[TheMACHINE]

Yes. Lebron needs at least a legitimate second option. Im talking about a guy who can clearly score when Lebron is off. Kobe has one. Pierce had one. Wade had one. Bosh would be good.


Problem with Cleveland is they are a team full of followers and washed up superstars and the only player who has the audacity to take shots away from bron is a no good chucker named MO. I mean, Shaq, Z and Jamison are past father time by NBA standards.


Oh and also change the damn freaking coach. jordan didnt win shit with doug collins, so i dont expect lebron to carry mr. potato head into a championship.

Wait...i thought with Jamison...it would be "UNFAIR" to the league?!?!?!

[ChrisRichards]

Mike Brown has'nt utilized Antawn Jamison's strengths out there and the lack of a true second option is hurting the Cavs. To me, the bottom line is that Lebron does'nt have a Pau Gasol and a Phil Jackson.

[BUMP]

People need to stop giving this guy a crutch. He has a deep, talented team around him. If he can't get it done with this group it's on him- especially considering how horrendously he's playing. Other guys have won more with less. I don't think Tim Duncan's supporting cast in 2003 was much, if any, better than LeBron's this year.

Some guys have what it takes and some guys don't. It appears LeBron is in the second category.

Crucify 'em Tate, nail that backstabbing frontrunner to the tree of woe!!

[BUMP]

fuck, Tait*

how'd i screw that one up?

[TheMACHINE]

damn...whoever wrote this thread is a fucking genius!

i was actually wrong..Lebron needs two stars by his side. :lmao

[Supergirl]

Orlando Magic GM Otis Smith: “I was surprised that (Lebron James) went to Miami. I thought he was, I guess, more of a competitor. The great ones do and usually stay in one location."

[himat]

Funny as hell!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-LPVHDIFSs

[mingus]

o, man. next couple of months is going to be inundated with Lakers' showing their insecurity.

Lebron didn't need anything. he was willing to sabatoge his playoffs last season by giving up and trying to turn it into an excuse to leave. now he's on a team that has a chance to win the next five championships. it's no surprised u mad.

[TheMACHINE]

o, man. next couple of months is going to be inundated with Lakers' showing their insecurity.

Lebron didn't need anything. he was willing to sabatoge his playoffs last season by giving up and trying to turn it into an excuse to leave. now he's on a team that has a chance to win the next five championships. it's no surprised u mad.

uh yah..check the date in the first post.

He's in the east...no need to be insecure. We've heard Lebron vs Kobe in the Finals for 3 years now and Kobe held his part of the bargain while we watch Lebron fail time and time again. Insecure my ass.

[mingus]

uh yah..check the date in the first post.

He's in the east...no need to be insecure. We've heard Lebron vs Kobe in the Finals for 3 years now and Kobe held his part of the bargain while we watch Lebron fail time and time again. Insecure my ass.

Lebron probably won't be failing again anytime soon.

[TheMACHINE]

Lebron probably won't be failing again anytime soon.

ahhh so u predict championship this year based on a 4 player roster. okkk