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Nbadan
05-10-2005, 07:18 PM
Judge Rules United Airlines Can Terminate Employee Pension Plan
created: 5/10/2005 5:37:54 PM
updated: 5/10/2005 5:38:43 PM



CHICAGO (AP) --A federal bankruptcy judge in Chicago approved United Airlines' plan to terminate its employees' pension plans. His actions clear the way for the largest corporate-pension default in American history.

With scores of its concerned employees and retirees looking on, United Airlines told a judge Tuesday it has no choice but to shed billions of dollars of pension obligations in order to emerge successfully from bankruptcy.

At a packed hearing with broad implications for U.S. airlines and their workers, United asked a federal bankruptcy judge to approve an agreement shifting responsibility for its defined-benefit plans to the government's pension agency. The funds are underfunded by an estimated $9.8 billion.

Unless rejected by Judge Eugene Wedoff, it will be the largest corporate-pension default in U.S. history, topping Bethlehem Steel's $3.6 billion in underfunding in 2002.

The deal would be a blow to airline employees. The federally backed Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which has agreed to take over the pensions, would guarantee only about $5 billion of the benefits, meaning some employees would lose thousands of dollars annually off their pensions.

"It was not our first choice," said United's chief bankruptcy attorney, James Sprayregen. "But this deal, if approved by the court, solves any number of issues."

"We don't see an alternative to what we're proposing today and tomorrow," he said, referring to a separate hearing starting Wednesday at which United is proposing to overhaul its labor contracts over its unions' objections in order to impose lower pay and benefits.

United, which has been unprofitable since 2000, says terminating the pensions and replacing them with defined-contribution plans would save it $645 million per year, part of the $2 billion in annual savings it needs to secure exit financing to end its 29-month stay in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

The effort to dump its pensions is being watched closely by the rest of the airline industry, where record fuel costs, the lowest fares since the early 1990s and stiff competition have caused network carriers to lose billions of dollars. A successful move by United to get out from under its pension obligations, following a step taken successfully by US Airways Group Inc. in February, would clear the way for similar actions elsewhere.

United's biggest competitors would be under the most pressure to follow suit. American Airlines, the largest U.S. carrier and a unit of AMR Corp., has said it will keep its pension plans but is concerned about No. 2 United gaining a financial advantage with the elimination of its pensions.

On Wednesday, flight attendants for American will gather in Washington to lobby for federal pension reform that would allow carriers to extend the amount of time they have to replenish underfunded plans and provide relief to airlines that seek, through collective bargaining, to preserve rather than terminate their pension obligations.

No. 3 Delta Air Lines Inc., which has said it is in danger of being forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, faces $3.1 billion in pension payments over the next three years.

An overflow crowd of current and former United workers showed up at bankruptcy court Tuesday, with more than 100 packing the courtroom and dozens more listening to piped-in proceedings in a separate courtroom.

Unions representing United's flight attendants, mechanics and ramp workers have expressed their ire at both the airline and the government's pension insurer, PBGC, for agreeing to drop its opposition to United's plan last month. In exchange for that settlement, the PBGC would get as much as $1.5 billion in notes and convertible stock in a reorganized UAL Corp., United's holding company.

Attorney Jeffrey Cohen said the PBGC, which might have been unable to halt United's plan in any case, made the agreement as "a matter of last resort." He said the agency concluded that cutting a deal would help United leave bankruptcy, and that it was in the best interests of those with pensions at United and taxpayers who fund the pension insurer.

Robert Clayman, an attorney for the Association of Flight Attendants, drew loud applause and cheers from employee spectators in both the courtroom and auxiliary court with an emotional appeal to preserve the pensions and workers' secure retirements.

"Without equity there is no justice," he said.

Jack Carriglio, an attorney for retired United pilots, warned of the consequences among angry employees.

"A strike is a real prospect if that agreement is approved," he said. "Also, this will have a grave impact on United employees' morale."

Before the hearing, United Chief Financial Officer Jake Brace said the carrier has no choice but to seek the difficult action.

"All the work we have done and continue to do is about ensuring a healthy United for all our employees and our customers," Brace said. "That work enables competitive jobs and a successful future for our company."

United's controversial move risks provoking action by employees who already have agreed to sharp cuts. Unions have raised the possibility of striking if United terminates the pensions and has its labor contracts overhauled.

KSDK News (http://www.ksdk.com/news/business_article.aspx?storyid=79246)

That's one of the big things that's made the difference between profit and loss between the small newbie airlines and all the legacy carriers. This judge just opened the door to dumping billions owed in Pensions, and I bet you're going to see all the legacy carriers jumping right in with Ford and GM not far behind.

Clandestino
05-10-2005, 07:41 PM
yeah, pretty fucking bullshit... but they(pensioners) would have it bad either way. if united went bankrupt they would get shit...at least this way they will get a little

The Ressurrected One
05-10-2005, 08:08 PM
those united workers need to WALK OUT NOW.


damn, I am a republican, but the bushies are letting the coorporations get a little out of hand.

THAT IS BULLSHIT.
Since when does the government control the business management of a private airline?

We should have never bailed out Chrysler and New York City. I say let them burn and learn from Southwest Airlines...

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-10-2005, 09:53 PM
Well, in all fairness the unions are out of control. If you tighten lug nuts on a tire you shouldn't be getting $20 an hour for it.

Clandestino
05-11-2005, 12:02 AM
yeah, unions are nuts... that is why wal-mart tells them to go to hell

Useruser666
05-11-2005, 08:49 AM
....and hires illegals! :lol

Clandestino
05-11-2005, 09:19 AM
haha... a relative of mine is the president of a large hispanic union.. we get into it about wal-mart! hahaha

MannyIsGod
05-11-2005, 09:29 AM
Since when does the government control the business management of a private airline?

We should have never bailed out Chrysler and New York City. I say let them burn and learn from Southwest Airlines...
Exactly.

This is complete bullshit, and I agree that the United Workers should walk out. This is an awful legal precident to set.

As far as Unions go, they are not asking for too much. How can all of you fuckers how love the free market so much complain about that? If they ask for too much then they simply shouldn't get it.

Extra Stout
05-11-2005, 11:39 AM
The United workers can walk out if they choose.

They can shut down United's operations, let the business run out of cash, and be left with no pensions or benefits whatsoever.

exstatic
05-11-2005, 07:09 PM
Coming soon to a company where YOU may work: We need a competitive edge, so we're going to slash YOUR pension plan. It already sounds like the other airlines are lining up. What sector is next?

You fuckers are awful cavalier with someone else's pension fuckover.

JoeChalupa
05-11-2005, 07:27 PM
I hate to see anyone who has worked for their pension and have done thier part get screwed in the end. I'd like to know if the big shot executives lose out on this too or will they pay themselves big bonuses before the retire.

mookie2001
05-11-2005, 07:55 PM
The federally backed Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which has agreed to take over the pensions, would guarantee only about $5 billion of the benefits, meaning some employees would lose thousands of dollars annually off their pensions.

whats the fucking point of federally backing then?
the airlines have been bailed out so many times its unreal, by the government
these are the same bastards that still wont screen all baggage
fuck the airlines, its like the bigger your corperation is, the less importance they place on running it like a business that actually makes money

MannyIsGod
05-11-2005, 07:59 PM
I've said it a million times, Communism for the rich, Capitalism for the poor.

Clandestino
05-11-2005, 10:01 PM
The federally backed Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which has agreed to take over the pensions, would guarantee only about $5 billion of the benefits, meaning some employees would lose thousands of dollars annually off their pensions.

whats the fucking point of federally backing then?
the airlines have been bailed out so many times its unreal, by the government
these are the same bastards that still wont screen all baggage
fuck the airlines, its like the bigger your corperation is, the less importance they place on running it like a business that actually makes money

if the government did nothing those people would lose ALL their pension instead of just some of it...

CommanderMcBragg
05-12-2005, 07:18 AM
The American worker gets the shaft again.

Clandestino
05-12-2005, 08:23 AM
this needs to be a lesson to everyon!!! no one is going to take care of you. not your employer, not your government, no one! you need to save your money somewhere else, no matter how poor you think you are.

MannyIsGod
05-12-2005, 01:20 PM
That Pension Guaranty group is a false sense of security, much in the way the FDIC is. The government loves to throw their weight around and act as if they can save people from financial disasters, but the truth is that they don't have that ability.

If all of the banks in the US went under, there is is no way the FDIC would be able to live up to it's 100k guarntee on accounts. It's just impossible. But that doesn't stop them from continously insuring new accounts because it's all about peace of mind.

But when you have a situation like this, when the government can't live up to the impression of protection it gave, you have a loss of faith. And the more faith that is lost from events like this, the less likely pensions are to be held in any value by employees.

Victor Newman
05-13-2005, 12:45 AM
You young people have no idea how to run a business.
Tough times require tough decisions.
So tough luck and welcome to the real world.

mookie2001
05-13-2005, 12:46 AM
You young people have no idea how to run a business.
Tough times require tough decisions.
So tough luck and welcome to the real world.


wow your tahoe must be nice