Kind of pissed we may never get to see Kobe vs. Lebron in the finals...

[Donkeybong]

While both in their primes.

[Bob Lanier]

Why? Why would the names on the jerseys make a Finals more or less entertaining? Pull your head out of your ESPN-infested, storyline-obsessed ass.

[Ghazi]

I'll settle for Kobe v Lebron Western Conference Finals

[badfish22]

I'll settle for Kobe v Lebron Western Conference Finals

yep. 4 quick games.

[Donkeybong]

Why? Why would the names on the jerseys make a Finals more or less entertaining? Pull your head out of your ESPN-infested, storyline-obsessed ass.

Because superstars and athletes with super-natural talents are showcased. I want to see the best players in the world on the biggest stage.

[21_Blessings]

I'll settle for Kobe v Lebron Western Conference Finals

Since that would be a Lakers v Clippers WCF enjoy watching the Lakers three peat.

[jacobdrj]

We saw Pau and Howard last year.


With a few exceptions, the best teams either play each other in the conference finals, or the Finals. (05, 06, 07 and 08 being glaring examples of the exception to this rule).

[4>0rings]

Kobe isn't prime he's on the decline.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe isn't prime he's on the decline.

And he's still better than Lebron in his athletic prime. :lol

[Quit Hatin']

forget kobe-lebron. ill rather see this...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1226/nba_g_bryant_pierce_kg_300.jpg

http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rajon_rondo_kobe_bryant.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DlSAvni2G2Q/SnjvBcN4dMI/AAAAAAAAAHA/dPxhUSQMRk0/s400/Lamar+Odom+confronts+Kevin+Garnett.jpg

[An Unbiased Fan]

It's basically Kobe vs The NBA.......and he's winning.

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

[badfish22]

And he's still better than Lebron in his athletic prime. :lol

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/arkanthill/for_blog/lebron_james_mvp.jpg

[21_Blessings]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/arkanthill/for_blog/lebron_james_mvp.jpg

http://egpnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Kobe-4-Chmapionships-Nike1453.JPG + :lobt2:

[Ghazi]

lol @ Lakers fans thinking this series changes an undeniable fact that James is the best basketball player on the planet.

<--------------------

[Trainwreck2100]

http://egpnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Kobe-4-Chmapionships-Nike1453.JPG + :lobt2:

yeah 3 of those ain't got shit to do with prime shaq and phil jackson

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

From a pure tangible standpoint Lebron is the best player in the league.

When you factor in intangibles (killer instinct, wanting to win, stepping up to take the tough defensive assignment, not choking) it's a different story. Going into the series it was almost consensus Lebron > Kobe, but this series reminds us why it's still an ungoing debate.

[4>0rings]

And he's still better than Lebron in his athletic prime. :lolNo Pau > Kobe and LeBron

[Trainwreck2100]

From a pure tangible standpoint Lebron is the best player in the league.

When you factor in intangibles (killer instinct, wanting to win, stepping up to take the tough defensive assignment, not choking) it's a different story. Going into the series it was almost consensus Lebron > Kobe, but this series reminds us why it's still an ungoing debate.

Its a fact that kobe acts like he's been there before, lebron acts like a dbag As long as he has the dbag attitude it will rub off on his game.

[21_Blessings]

Or when you factor in actual basketball skill then it's not close. Kobe > Lebron

Lebron is no doubt one of the best athletes and world. Best players in the game have a fucking post game. There is absolutely no excuse for him not have developed one. He just doesn't have the skill to do so.

Seriously, imagine Kobe with Lebron's size and athleticism posting up smaller people every single game. :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He has the ability to, but then there's the whole no killer instinct or desire to win thing that gets in the way of him developing a post game. He should be hitting up Hakeem this summer but I'm willing to bet anything he won't.

[Trainwreck2100]

Or when you factor in actual basketball skill then it's not close. Kobe > Lebron

Lebron is no doubt one of the best athletes and world. Best players in the game have a fucking post game. There is absolutely no excuse for him not have developed one. He just doesn't have the skill to do so.

Seriously, imagine Kobe with Lebron's size and athleticism posting up smaller people every single game. :lol

He doesn't have a developed post game for the same reason kobe didn't at bron's age, he doesn't need one. It's attitude plain and simple.

[milkshakeballa]

From a pure tangible standpoint Lebron is the best player in the league.

When you factor in intangibles (killer instinct, wanting to win, stepping up to take the tough defensive assignment, not choking) it's a different story. Going into the series it was almost consensus Lebron > Kobe, but this series reminds us why it's still an ungoing debate.

This.

For me - I have come to the conclusion that Bron is far and away the best regular season player.

But come playoff time..I will take the Black Mamba everytime.

Until LeBron either gets a respectable post game or a consistent jump shot...he will do NOTHING in the playoffs against teams who pack the paint against him. And the longer he goes without winning...the resepct he commands for officials will continue to dissipate IMO

[TheMACHINE]

Brons too busy dancing on sidelines...let the kid have his fun. Winning is overated.

[milkshakeballa]

He doesn't have a developed post game for the same reason kobe didn't at bron's age, he doesn't need one. It's attitude plain and simple.

:lol:lol:lol:lol

Kobe didn't have a post game at age 24?

:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

Maybe it wasn't as devloped as it is today...but god damn you can throw the rock down there and he will msot likely be getting a bucket.

[Greg Oden]

It's crazy watching laker fan jack off to LeBron's chokes as if Kobert doesn't have his fair share as well.

[21_Blessings]

Nice try Spurs fan. Kobe had a well developed post-game at 21 :lol

[milkshakeballa]

It's crazy watching laker fan jack off to LeBron's chokes as if Kobert doesn't have his fair share as well.

its been crazy watching the WHOLE NBA jack off to this shit.

arrogant fuck things a ring should be given to him...

[Greg Oden]

Nice try Spurs fan. Kobe had a well developed post-game at 21 :lol

:lmao :lmao

revisionist history at it's finest.

[Greg Oden]

its been crazy watching the WHOLE NBA jack off to this shit.

arrogant fuck things a ring should be given to him...

Kobe has had this same arrogance about him his entire career too.

[milkshakeballa]

Kobe has had this same arrogance about him his entire career too.

really?

kobe is the chosen 1?

kobe has only played 3 bad games in 7 years?


there isn't a doubt in my mind kobe isn't 5x more arrogant than lebron is

but he atleast keeps it to him fucking self


AND BACKS HIS SHIT UP ON THE COURT

4 rings homey

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Because superstars and athletes with super-natural talents are showcased. I want to see the best players in the world on the biggest stage.

Two words: FUCK THAT

I want to see the best TEAMS in the world on the biggest stage. This ain't a one-on-one tournament.

[Greg Oden]

really?

kobe is the chosen 1?

kobe has only played 3 bad games in 7 years?


there isn't a doubt in my mind kobe isn't 5x more arrogant than lebron is

but he atleast keeps it to him fucking self


AND BACKS HIS SHIT UP ON THE COURT

4 rings homey

you keep believing that.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the fuck do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this shit..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

Stepping up to defend people?..Lebron defended Rondo at times, even though he shouldn't..it's a bad strategy..why didn't Kobe step up and defend Pierce and Allen more in the Finals? they were torching his team, so he decided to sag off Rondo instead?..why is he getting credit for doing this, and Lebron isn't?..

Not choking?..Kobe has choked plenty, just as much as Lebron has..

Having a post up game that you mastered past the age of 30 is NOT an argument for best player in the NBA..it really has very little to do with it..it helps Kobe with his effectiveness, but effectiveness as a whole is an argument in itself..Lebron is clearly a more effective player than OJ..




When Kobe had a bad series vs. the Celtics and allowed his team to blow a 24-point lead in the most crucial game of the series, did he not have "killer instinct" and "desire to win"?..I don't understand..what's the difference?..

Did he all of a sudden learn how to develop this last year?..or was it because the Lakers had a better team and better matchup in the Finals?..was it really attributed to that killer instinct he apparently developed over the Summer?..

Kobe has been to 6 Finals, and only 1 of them has stood out..shouldn't he have played better since he has this supposed amazing ability to be clutch?..1 of those Finals appearances was arguably the worst in NBA history, another one was a choke job where his team was favored..

Kobe went 8-21 and 7-22 with 10 turnovers in the final 2 games of the Finals vs. Boston, the 2 most important games of the series..how did this happen?..

Kobe gave up on a team in a game 7, why isn't this being talked about?..where was his "desire to win" in that game?..




Lebron has had some amazing games in the playoffs, and he's shown up for plenty of close out games..why is he all of a sudden considered a choker based on a few games?..

Averaging around 37/8/8 in the ECF vs. Orlando isn't extremely clutch?..

Dropping 45 points in a game 7 vs. Boston?..

Leading a horrible team to the NBA Finals?..

Having one of the greatest playoff performances of all-time vs. Detroit isn't clutch?..

What's the criteria?..



Was Kobe a choker when he was playing like shit vs. OKC in the 1st round?..

How do you determine these things?..




Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same shit..

Lebron has taken a team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs, despite never having a legit #3 option on his team, let alone a #2..

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under circumstances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..

[peskypesky]

It's basically Kobe vs The NBA.......and he's winning.

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

Kobe didn't do shit when he had no Shaq and no Gasol.

[Greg Oden]

I hate to say it but HarlemHeat just chode bloaded a lot of you Laker faggots.

[Greg Oden]

"yeah but yeah but Kobe has 4 rings! He's not a choker! :cry"

[DazedAndConfused]

You can't BE a choker when you've won 4 NBA titles.

Go home kids.

Sour grape Spur fans disappointed their season ended so pathetically. Getting swept by the Suns of all teams... :lmao

[BadOdor]

Sons I could care less at this point if vuyabitch comes back from his injury to average 32 ppg to lead the lakers to a title, as long as we get one.

That being said, at some point the excuses gotta run out for lebron - he should have won it all this year.

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

I just find it extremely hypocritical to see these arguments against Lebron when Kobe has went through the exact same shit, and Laker fans CONTINUED to say he was the best player in the NBA..

[BadOdor]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

Son I think he quit rather than chocked, but that point is, he has also got it done. Yeah yeah, I know, "but but phil jackson, but but shaq, but but gasol".....At the end of the day, he has DONE IT.

I don't know if lebron is a choker or not....he did not choke last year....this year though? did seem like he did not care as much..

[milkshakeballa]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the fuck do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this shit..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

Stepping up to defend people?..Lebron defended Rondo at times, even though he shouldn't..it's a bad strategy..why didn't Kobe step up and defend Pierce and Allen more in the Finals? they were torching his team, so he decided to sag off Rondo instead?..why is he getting credit for doing this, and Lebron isn't?..

Not choking?..Kobe has choked plenty, just as much as Lebron has..

Having a post up game that you mastered past the age of 30 is NOT an argument for best player in the NBA..it really has very little to do with it..it helps Kobe with his effectiveness, but effectiveness as a whole is an argument in itself..Lebron is clearly a more effective player than OJ..




When Kobe had a bad series vs. the Celtics and allowed his team to blow a 24-point lead in the most crucial game of the series, did he not have "killer instinct" and "desire to win"?..I don't understand..what's the difference?..

Did he all of a sudden learn how to develop this last year?..or was it because the Lakers had a better team and better matchup in the Finals?..was it really attributed to that killer instinct he apparently developed over the Summer?..

Kobe has been to 6 Finals, and only 1 of them has stood out..shouldn't he have played better since he has this supposed amazing ability to be clutch?..1 of those Finals appearances was arguably the worst in NBA history, another one was a choke job where his team was favored..

Kobe went 8-21 and 7-22 with 10 turnovers in the final 2 games of the Finals vs. Boston, the 2 most important games of the series..how did this happen?..

Kobe gave up on a team in a game 7, why isn't this being talked about?..where was his "desire to win" in that game?..




Lebron has had some amazing games in the playoffs, and he's shown up for plenty of close out games..why is he all of a sudden considered a choker based on a few games?..

Averaging around 37/8/8 in the ECF vs. Orlando isn't extremely clutch?..

Dropping 45 points in a game 7 vs. Boston?..

Leading a horrible team to the NBA Finals?..

Having one of the greatest playoff performances of all-time vs. Detroit isn't clutch?..

What's the criteria?..



Was Kobe a choker when he was playing like shit vs. OKC in the 1st round?..

How do you determine these things?..




Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same shit..

Lebron has taken a team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs, despite never having a legit #3 option on his team, let alone a #2..

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under circumstances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..


:lol:lol:lol

You have made good points in the past but this?

Laughable.

Just because YOU do not want to recognize the aspects of the game that can't be quantified DOES NOT mean they do not exist or do not have merit.

Let me ask you this Harlem...when was the last time Kobe stumbled when he had the best and deepest team in the league? When he was a favorite?

2004? I can fly with that.

Don't tell me 2008. Celtics were by far the better team.

LeBron?

Back to back 60 win seasons. Back to back MVP's.

Back to back fucking choke jobs.

In the 2nd round? REALLY?!

I'm sick of the media and his fans continuously comingu p with excuses for the guy....at some fucking point in his career...Bron is going to have to step up.

Get off his fucking nuts Harlem.

[Andrew Bynum]

Kobe didn't do shit when he had no Shaq and no Gasol.

Ugh. Who did Magic and Bird play with? Scrubs? LeBron can't win shit even with some pretty decent players around him.

[milkshakeballa]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

I just find it extremely hypocritical to see these arguments against Lebron when Kobe has went through the exact same shit, and Laker fans CONTINUED to say he was the best player in the NBA..

What arguments against LeBron that Kobe has doen the exact same?

Kobe put in 19 fucking points in the 2nd quarter against the Suns.

That is quitting?

[milkshakeballa]

You know the difference between Kobe and Bron Harlem?














Kobe:

http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/may082008_kobe_05.jpg


















Bron:

http://lexpatriates.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/john-calipari-lebron-james.jpg

[easy7]

http://egpnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Kobe-4-Chmapionships-Nike1453.JPG + :lobt2:

4 rings, no maid and one crazy bitch!!!

[milkshakeballa]

how many fucking years in the league harlen has bron been it?

time is fucking up pal.

ZERO POST GAME.

NO RELIABLE JUMPER.

The guy has not improved one single aspect of his game. Yes his numbers have improved...maturity...natural progression. But what aspect of his game has he improved on while in the league Harlem? Give me one?

His man defense? Still a fucking joke. I guess yo ucan say his timing on his "OMG IMA CUM WHILE ANNOUNCING GREATEST BLOCK EVER" fastbreak blocks have improved. :rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Passing has always been great. Free throw shooting? :lmao:lmao



The guy does not give a fuck. Thats the bottom line.


He is all about $$$ and not about :lobt2::lobt2:

[midnightpulp]

how many fucking years in the league harlen has bron been it?

time is fucking up pal.

ZERO POST GAME.

NO RELIABLE JUMPER.

The guy has not improved one single aspect of his game. Yes his numbers have improved...maturity...natural progression. But what aspect of his game has he improved on while in the league Harlem? Give me one?

His man defense? Still a fucking joke. I guess yo ucan say his timing on his "OMG IMA CUM WHILE ANNOUNCING GREATEST BLOCK EVER" fastbreak blocks have improved. :rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Passing has always been great. Free throw shooting? :lmao:lmao



The guy does not give a fuck. Thats the bottom line.


He is all about $$$ and not about :lobt2::lobt2:

I can second this post to a degree. Lebron does indeed need to develop other aspects of his game, which he seems not to have taken in interest in. If the guy developed a post game, he'd be working on a 3 peat right now.

I think what Harlem is trying to convey is the hypocrisy Kobe fans are displaying here. If this was the Lakers losing tonight with Kobe in the Lebron role and Jamison in the Gasol role, they'd be crucifying the latter while excusing the former.

I understand what you guys are doing. You want James to be held to the same standards as Kobe and receive the same amount of criticism when he fails. Kobe was the media and online forum whipping boy from 04-08, so it delights you guys to see "the Chosen One" go through similar treatment, which James totally deserves.

But let's not sit here and act like Kobe hasn't had to endure his share of shitty performances and "chokes' before he finally broke through and won a championship as the leader of the team.

And finally, while we all have fun arguing about marquee players "choking", and making fun of Kobe, Lebron, whomever, at the end of day, teams win games, not players. Teams lose games, not players. This applies to Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Lebron, etc, etc. Kobe played like shit for the majority of the first round, but his team won. Duncan played like shit for the last two games of the 07 Finals, but his team won. If those teams would've lost, we'd be calling those two players chokers.

We've become so programmed by ESPN and their marketing bullshit we've seemed to forget that there exists a team concept at all.

[roycrikside]

Why? Why would the names on the jerseys make a Finals more or less entertaining? Pull your head out of your ESPN-infested, storyline-obsessed ass.

+1

There's nothing to be angry about. If LeBron's team deserved to go to the Finals they would've. They played worse than Orlando and Boston in back to back years and got their asses beat.

ESPN and the fans want it both ways. They accuse the NBA of being fixed and the refs for being on the take, then they get whiny and butthurt when their stars and media darlings don't win. The other teams are filled with guys who are getting paid and trying to win too. They're not just going to lay down and let you get your ring. If you want it, you gotta earn it. 8-of-21 and 9 TOs ain't gonna get it done in a road playoff game.

[newacc]

Present Day Kobe has killer instinct and still a great game but he's also paired with 2 of the top 4 big men and a 6'10'' small forward that's super skilled and top 3 in the league in versatility.

Basically, Lakers have put together a dominating team with a ton of talent. Takes away a little bit from the Kobe awesome column.

That Memphis give-away was a history altering trade.

[cobbler]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the fuck do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this shit..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

.
.
.


Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same shit..

.
.
.

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under circumstances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..


Unquantifiable by who? This is your problem. You just don't get it and probably never will. I can only assume you have not played any team sports at any serious level. Heck, at any level. Work ethic is most definetly quantifiable. You don't think the players, teams, and organizations know who the hard workers are and vice versa? Does it show up on your box score or advanced stats sheets? No. Desire to win? Defense? Are you seriously telling me you cannot measure these with your eyes? Do they show up in the statlines? No. Its not all about stats and PER.

Look at Lebrons game tonight.

27/19/10 on 8-21 shooting and 9 turnovers

Not a bad night other than the turnover issues. It was triple double. But what is the talk all about? He didnt look right, there was no sense of urgency, you couldn't see the fire in his eyes, the chemistry was wrong etc etc etc...

ahhhh.... the intangibles

So, can these "intangibles" be proven on a Hollinger stat sheet? No, I'm sorry. But you can simply gander over at the trophy cases and see the glaring results of teams who have them and those who dont.

[midnightpulp]

Unquantifiable by who? This is your problem. You just don't get it and probably never will. I can only assume you have not played any team sports at any serious level. Heck, at any level. Work ethic is most definetly quantifiable. You don't think the players, teams, and organizations know who the hard workers are and vice versa? Does it show up on your box score or advanced stats sheets? No. Desire to win? Defense? Are you seriously telling me you cannot measure these with your eyes? Do they show up in the statlines? No. Its not all about stats and PER.

Look at Lebrons game tonight.

27/19/10 on 8-21 shooting and 9 turnovers

Not a bad night other than the turnover issues. It was triple double. But what is the talk all about? He didnt look right, there was no sense of urgency, you couldn't see the fire in his eyes, the chemistry was wrong etc etc etc...

ahhhh.... the intangibles

So, can these "intangibles" be proven on a Hollinger stat sheet? No, I'm sorry. But you can simply gander over at the trophy cases and see the glaring results of teams who have them and those who dont.

I know you were proud of yourself for that last line thinking it all poetic, but that is complete bullshit.

Sometimes teams are just flat out better than other teams and no amount of intangibles would make a lick of difference.

Take your 60s Lakers. You don't think those teams had "intangibles," especially with the so-called Mr. Clutch, Logo Jerry West, and a determination to win but just ran into better and more talented Celtics teams?

Now in last night's case, the Celts had the intangibles while the Cavs were lacking. They were more cohesive and responded to the challenge with a lot more guts than the Cavs. But to accuse title-less teams of lacking will and grit and the desire to win is a flat out fallacy.

I know what you're implying. You think the Lakers are somehow blessed by god and magically imbued with "intangibles" and that certain championship "it" factor, when in fact, throughout the Lakers history, they've spent the most amount of money, always had the most talent, and have never had to truly rebuild given the way they can always attract high-profile free-agents.

Now, I'm not deriding that, mind you, or "hating", I'm just trying to articulate to you that smaller Franchises have a much more difficult time winning and it's not because a lack of "intangibles."

[mystargtr34]

From a pure tangible standpoint Lebron is the best player in the league.

When you factor in intangibles (killer instinct, wanting to win, stepping up to take the tough defensive assignment, not choking) it's a different story. Going into the series it was almost consensus Lebron > Kobe, but this series reminds us why it's still an ungoing debate.

Is Pau Gasol an intangible aswell?

[mogrovejo]

LOL intangibles. Replace LeBron with any other player in the league and the Cavs would pull a Heat.

I've seen this before anyway, with Jordan it was the same thing, he just wasn't a winner.

[milkshakeballa]

harlem come at me bro

[Giuseppe]

I've seen this before anyway, with Jordan it was the same thing, he just wasn't a winner.

And then he was a winner.

Ain't nobody stoppin' James. It's a free country.

To this point he's failed chronologically, and for that, he pays.

[j.dizzle]

No wonder Nike stopped airing the puppet commercials..They dont even trust Lebron to get to the finals with his most stacked team ever...LOL at regular season champions 2 years straight.

[HarlemHeat37]

Just because YOU do not want to recognize the aspects of the game that can't be quantified DOES NOT mean they do not exist or do not have merit.

I recognize them..the problem is that the only guy in the NBA that seems to get credit for it is Kobe..


Let me ask you this Harlem...when was the last time Kobe stumbled when he had the best and deepest team in the league? When he was a favorite?

Why is this a question?..

When has Lebron ever had the best and deepest team?..



LeBron?

Back to back 60 win seasons. Back to back MVP's.

Back to back fucking choke jobs.

In the 2nd round? REALLY?!

What does winning MVP and winning 60 games have to do with anything?..

Their team won that many games because of Lebron..the fact that they're a poorly constructed team with no legit #2 player is irrelevant during the regular season, but once the playoffs come and opposing coaches start to intensely game plan, they easily exploit flawed teams like the Cavs..

Lebron had a great playoffs other than these last 2 games..

I don't know how you can possibly call last year a choke job for Lebron..putting up 37/8/8 in the ECF is a choke job?..that was one of the best individual series' of all-time, despite losing..


I'm sick of the media and his fans continuously comingu p with excuses for the guy....at some fucking point in his career...Bron is going to have to step up.

Get off his fucking nuts Harlem.

What excuses?..

Are you actually saying he has a legit championship team around him?..

Are you actually saying Jamison is a legit #2 guy?..

Are you actually saying Shaq-Jamison isn't one of the worst defensive frontcourts in NBA playoff history?..


What arguments against LeBron that Kobe has doen the exact same?

Kobe put in 19 fucking points in the 2nd quarter against the Suns.

That is quitting?

Kobe clearly quit vs. Phoenix, but I'm not even talking about that..Lebron didn't quit, he just had poor games vs. an elite defensive team that has held him to worse games in the past..

The same team that completely dominated Kobe during the 2008 NBA Finals, even though he had 2 teammates that would be the 2nd best player on Lebron's team..

Kobe vs. Detroit in the Finals was a lot worse..


how many fucking years in the league harlen has bron been it?

time is fucking up pal.

Time is up for what?..

He's the best player on the planet..he's taken a shitty team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs..he has won 2 MVPs..he's had some playoff games that will be forever be remembered..

He's only 25 years old..


ZERO POST GAME.

He doesn't need one right now..he's done fine without one..a post game wouldn't have made any difference in the games vs. Boston TBH..


NO RELIABLE JUMPER.

Lebron shot 35% on jump shots in his rookie season..he shot it at 44% this season..9% is an amazing improvement IMO, clearly he has worked on his shot to the point where it's reliable..the fact that it failed him for 2 games is irrelevant, it happens to everybody..

His 3-point % this season was better than Kobe's too..


The guy has not improved one single aspect of his game. Yes his numbers have improved...maturity...natural progression. But what aspect of his game has he improved on while in the league Harlem? Give me one?

His jump shot has improved by 9% from his rookie season, a huge increase..

He was an average defender when he entered the NBA, he's now an elite defender..if not an elite individual defender, then certainly an elite help defender..


His man defense? Still a fucking joke. I guess yo ucan say his timing on his "OMG IMA CUM WHILE ANNOUNCING GREATEST BLOCK EVER" fastbreak blocks have improved. :rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Lebron is clearly a very good individual defender, and he's clearly an elite help defender..Paul Pierce, a very good player, couldn't do anything against Lebron for the entire series..at least he had the balls to defend him in these huge games, unlike a certain somebody..



The guy does not give a fuck. Thats the bottom line.


He is all about $$$ and not about :lobt2::lobt2:

Link?..




Unquantifiable by who? This is your problem. You just don't get it and probably never will. I can only assume you have not played any team sports at any serious level. Heck, at any level. Work ethic is most definetly quantifiable. You don't think the players, teams, and organizations know who the hard workers are and vice versa? Does it show up on your box score or advanced stats sheets? No. Desire to win? Defense? Are you seriously telling me you cannot measure these with your eyes? Do they show up in the statlines? No. Its not all about stats and PER.

I played competitive HS ball with multiple division 1 players, I constantly played vs. a current NBA player(Telfair) and I could have been a walk-on at St. Johns this year(as I said in the Spurs forum last Summer) but I wouldn't have been getting paid or gotten a scholarship, so it was pointless..

The fact that I played competitive basketball doesn't mean anything..

A player being a hard worker is not an argument..working hard leads to improvement in your game, which shows in your overall effectiveness on the court..it shouldn't have any bearing in an X player vs. X player argument..

Desire to win is impossible to quantify..again, I've NEVER heard this in an argument for anybody other than Kobe..how do people know he has more of a desire to win than anybody else?..making a stupid scowl face during games doesn't mean you want to win more..

Defense is the only thing I can measure with my eyes..




Look at Lebrons game tonight.

27/19/10 on 8-21 shooting and 9 turnovers

Not a bad night other than the turnover issues. It was triple double. But what is the talk all about? He didnt look right, there was no sense of urgency, you couldn't see the fire in his eyes, the chemistry was wrong etc etc etc...



ahhhh.... the intangibles

So, can these "intangibles" be proven on a Hollinger stat sheet? No, I'm sorry. But you can simply gander over at the trophy cases and see the glaring results of teams who have them and those who dont.

I've never said that stats are the only argument..my point is that "desire to win" and "killer instincts" can't be argued by anybody..nobody is inside the head of a player, nobody knows any of this, nobody knows if it's just an act, you can't measure this..the only people that ever use this argument are people that are arguing in favor of Kobe, TBH..

The fucking fire in his eyes?!..has technology advanced so much that we're now expected to look into somebody's eyes and determine whether or not he's into it?..(I know that isn't exactly what you mean, but still)..

the lacking of a sense of urgency was with a minute left and the game was already out of hand..it had no impact on the game whatsoever..

The stat sheet did show that Lebron didn't have a great game though..9 turnovers and 8-21 from the field..it showed that Cleveland shot 38% from the field and had 22 turnovers, usually a recipe for disaster..

No, the stat sheet doesn't measure things such as not having a legit #2 best player, a poor coach and the fact that Shaq-Jamison is a historically bad defensive frontcourt, but everybody should know this already..

[cobbler]

I played competitive HS ball with multiple division 1 players, I constantly played vs. a current NBA player(Telfair) and I could have been a walk-on at St. Johns this year(as I said in the Spurs forum last Summer) but I wouldn't have been getting paid or gotten a scholarship, so it was pointless..

The fact that I played competitive basketball doesn't mean anything....

It surprises me. I would think someone with such experience would realize that team and locker room dynamics actually do count and are quantifiable.


A player being a hard worker is not an argument..working hard leads to improvement in your game, which shows in your overall effectiveness on the court..it shouldn't have any bearing in an X player vs. X player argument....

I completely disagree. With all things equal between two players, I want the guy on my team who is the hardest worker. It's a mindset that directly translates to the floor. It's when those extra thousands of practice shots comes up big in one play. Come on, it's no secret that the vast majority of the greats in the game have tremendous work ethics.


Desire to win is impossible to quantify..again, I've NEVER heard this in an argument for anybody other than Kobe..how do people know he has more of a desire to win than anybody else?..making a stupid scowl face during games doesn't mean you want to win more..

Defense is the only thing I can measure with my eyes..
..


Really? I have heard it quite a bit. Jordan's desire to win defined him did it not? Magic? Bird? Duncan? etc etc... All noted for their relentless desire to win. I can certainly see it in a player and even more so of a teammate.




I've never said that stats are the only argument..my point is that "desire to win" and "killer instincts" can't be argued by anybody..nobody is inside the head of a player, nobody knows any of this, nobody knows if it's just an act, you can't measure this..the only people that ever use this argument are people that are arguing in favor of Kobe, TBH..

The fucking fire in his eyes?!..has technology advanced so much that we're now expected to look into somebody's eyes and determine whether or not he's into it?..(I know that isn't exactly what you mean, but still)..

the lacking of a sense of urgency was with a minute left and the game was already out of hand..it had no impact on the game whatsoever..

The stat sheet did show that Lebron didn't have a great game though..9 turnovers and 8-21 from the field..it showed that Cleveland shot 38% from the field and had 22 turnovers, usually a recipe for disaster..

No, the stat sheet doesn't measure things such as not having a legit #2 best player, a poor coach and the fact that Shaq-Jamison is a historically bad defensive frontcourt, but everybody should know this already..

Sounds like bunch of excuses to me. I don't care about the history, coaching, or perceived value of supporting cast. This discussion was about quantifying the intangibles. I say you can. You say otherwise. From my experience, I always knew the guys on my teams that had that desire and will to win at all costs. Of course everyone wants to win but you know what I am talking about. Those who refuse to lose. I firmly believe our attitude, work ethic, and desire to win was what seperated us from the other elite. That you cannot assign a number to these intangibles makes them no less important... and that you cannot see them makes them no less visible.

[milkshakeballa]

I don't get it.

Number one seed BOTH years. 127 wins in 2 seasons. KILLING teams. Back to back MVP's.

This is the defintion of a HORRIBLE team right. This is the defintion of a pathetic supporting cast right?? I mean...horrible pathetic support cast accomplish these type of things yearly am i right?

Coming into the playoffs...it was FUCKING UNAMIOUS...THIS IS THE YEAR FOR BRON. He has ALL the pieces he needs. That's all I read on this fucking forum for days after the Jamison trade. There was ZERO doubt CLE wasn't winning it all this year. Time for King to get his ring. All fans. All the media. EVERYBODY.

THe MINUTE...the absolute fucking MINUTE the Cavs get bounced its because Bron's supporting cast is HORRIBLE. It's his frontcourt defense is the worst in NBA history?!? Really?

Answer me this Harlem.

How is it that when Bron QUITS...SAYS FUCK YOU TO JOE TAIT AND CLEVELAND...in game 5..as the PROHIBITIVE favorite to win the title...the one seed...in the 2nd fucking round...as a back2back MVP winner...as the BEST player in the game...who has the city of Cleveland and the entire Cavs franchise in the palm of his fucking hand...IT IS NOT NEARLY AS BAD to you...AS A MATER OF FACT IT ISN'T EVEN COMPARABLE..NOT EVEN HALF AS BAD as what Kobe did in Game 7 vs. the Suns?? (Let alone he scored 19 pts in the second quarter and they were down 15...let alone that EVERY game during the season he put up over 40? points and they LOST...nevermind the fact when he got his teammates going thats the games they won in the series...nevermind all that) Answer me that Harlem. Now. Come at me bro.

Now answer me this Harlem.

2006-2008. Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Chucky Atkins, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Kwame, Aaron McKie......

How come all I heard was Kobe DOES NOT MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER.

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE HEAR THAT LINE GUYS?

It wasn't that the team sucked fucking balls...Kobe doesn't know how to make his teammates better.

Yet Bron...it all falls at the feet of his TEAMMATES. NOT ONE OUNCE OF FUCKING BLAME YOU ARE PLACING ON BRON. BUT HIS TEAMMATES.

[milkshakeballa]

He doesn't need one right now..he's done fine without one..a post game wouldn't have made any difference in the games vs. Boston TBH..


Oh now you must be fucking joking...

God damn you must be trolling with this statement....

[Giuseppe]

2006-2008. Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Chucky Atkins, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Kwame, Aaron McKie......

Oh, Lord. Saying it out loud like that is frightening.

[pauls931]

While both in their primes.

The timestamp has to be wrong on the OP.

[milkshakeballa]

Come at me Harlem...come at me bro.

[mathbzh]

Lebron has taken a team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs, despite never having a legit #3 option on his team, let alone a #2..


Sorry but I have to disgree... because obviously when you are the only player to handle the ball and to pass you will not have a legit #2 option.
Jamison has a lot of flaws in his game, but he is a legit scoring option.
When he arrived, did Lebron production dropped?
No he start dominating the ball even more.

I believe Lebron kills his team-mates unless they are strictly role player (shooters, energizer...). See Boston, they had KG, Pierce, Allen and still they let some room for Rondo to develop. That would not have happened if Rondo was in Cleveland. Because he would barely have been allowed to bring the ball and he is anything but a shooter.

This is a reason why I like Duncan so much. He did not hesitate to share touches with two then No-Names Parker and Ginobili when in the early 2000 he could have been a 30 ppg player.

[milkshakeballa]

Sorry but I have to disgree... because obviously when you are the only player to handle the ball and to pass you will not have a legit #2 option.
Jamison has a lot of flaws in his game, but he is a legit scoring option.
When he arrived, did Lebron production dropped?
No he start dominating the ball even more.

I believe Lebron kills his team-mates unless they are strictly role player (shooters, energizer...). See Boston, they had KG, Pierce, Allen and still they let some room for Rondo to develop. That would not have happened if Rondo was in Cleveland. Because he would barely have been allowed to bring the ball and he is anything but a shooter.

This is a reason why I like Duncan so much. He did not hesitate to share touches with two then No-Names Parker and Ginobili when in the early 2000 he could have been a 30 ppg player.

Could be a valid point.

I'm really interested in seeing how he plays with a Bosh or Amare..

[Allanon]

From a pure tangible standpoint Lebron is the best player in the league.

When you factor in intangibles (killer instinct, wanting to win, stepping up to take the tough defensive assignment, not choking) it's a different story. Going into the series it was almost consensus Lebron > Kobe, but this series reminds us why it's still an ungoing debate.

Very fair analysis. I'll take it on a somewhat different tangent of this.

At this point, Lebron is superior to Kobe in strength and speed. His shooting and defense have greatly improved...pretty much every physical attribute.

The biggest difference is the mentality and experience.

Last year, when Lebron lost to the Magic, there were signs there that Lebron's style of play doesn't make his teammates better.

Before this last series, you could say Lebron > Kobe.

But after watching that meltdown, Kobe has taken the lead again.

Kobe knows how to involve his teammates and get the win. Kobe is racking up assists and just taking over when it's needed.

Give Kobe that 60 win team and he leads them to a championship.

Remember, Pau was 0-12 in the Playoffs before joining Kobe. Nobody ever talked about him as being this great Power Forward.

Before Kobe, I can find hundreds of quotes on this forum alone on Gasoft this and 0-12 that.

Bam, playing with Kobe, he's suddenly the best since Duncan and Dirk.

Lamar Odom always shrunk from clutch moments, now he's extremely reliable in 4th quarters. In fact, Lamar is now probably one of the best 2 way power forwards in the NBA.

[Kobe™]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/arkanthill/for_blog/lebron_james_mvp.jpg

James is the best player - in the regular season.

Just as again, he was the best player last year - in the regular season.

And then when the playoffs roll around, when each possession and decision making in clutch situations and big games come into play, then we all know who the best player is: Kobe

So I don't think anyone who says LeBron is the best player in the NBA during November-March is hating on Kobe or being unfair. During that period he is.

But once April hits it's Kobe time.

Then you look at past MVP's - the curse continues.

MVP's
10 Lebron NO RING
09 Lebron NO RING
08 Kobe NO RING
07 Nowitzki NO RING
06 Nash NO RING
05 Nash NO RING
04 KG NO RING

[milkshakeballa]

Harlem where you at? You can't see me brah?

Come at me bro

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't get it.

Number one seed BOTH years. 127 wins in 2 seasons. KILLING teams. Back to back MVP's.

Are you actually telling me that you don't understand the differences when it comes to the NBA regular season and the NBA playoffs?..are you telling me that teams don't game plan more in the playoffs when they face the same opponent for an entire series?..



This is the defintion of a HORRIBLE team right. This is the defintion of a pathetic supporting cast right?? I mean...horrible pathetic support cast accomplish these type of things yearly am i right?

Who said Lebron had a horrible supporting cast?..I said he doesn't have a championship supporting cast, which is true..the only chance the Cavs had a title was for Lebron to play perfect basketball, which he's capable of..unfortunately, he didn't..


Coming into the playoffs...it was FUCKING UNAMIOUS...THIS IS THE YEAR FOR BRON. He has ALL the pieces he needs. That's all I read on this fucking forum for days after the Jamison trade. There was ZERO doubt CLE wasn't winning it all this year. Time for King to get his ring. All fans. All the media. EVERYBODY.

The Cavs were picked because Lebron is levels better than any player in the NBA..again, if Lebron played Lebron-type basketball, they could have, but he didn't..

You seem to think I'm excusing Lebron's performance in the last 2 games..I'm not..my point is that Lebron HAS had huge playoff performances and he has had success in the playoffs..he IS a playoff performer, even taking into consideration the end of this past series..your point is that he's not a playoff performer because of 2 bad games, which is ridiculous..

I hate Jamison and his game, as you can see in the trade deadline thread on the Spurs forum when Jamison was suggested, so I've never thought highly of him..


THe MINUTE...the absolute fucking MINUTE the Cavs get bounced its because Bron's supporting cast is HORRIBLE. It's his frontcourt defense is the worst in NBA history?!? Really?

The Cavs supporting cast is not championship material, therefore Lebron has to play perfect basketball for them to win..shit, even last year, he put up 37/8/8, one of the best series' in NBA history, and they still couldn't win with him..

No player should ever have the responsibility of putting up historic numbers in every series, just so his team has a chance..

Are you actually telling me that the Cavs have a championship-level supporting cast?..are you denying that Shaq-Jamison is a horrible defensive frontcourt?..



How is it that when Bron QUITS...SAYS FUCK YOU TO JOE TAIT AND CLEVELAND...in game 5..as the PROHIBITIVE favorite to win the title...the one seed...in the 2nd fucking round...as a back2back MVP winner...as the BEST player in the game...who has the city of Cleveland and the entire Cavs franchise in the palm of his fucking hand...IT IS NOT NEARLY AS BAD to you...AS A MATER OF FACT IT ISN'T EVEN COMPARABLE..NOT EVEN HALF AS BAD as what Kobe did in Game 7 vs. the Suns?? (Let alone he scored 19 pts in the second quarter and they were down 15...let alone that EVERY game during the season he put up over 40? points and they LOST...nevermind the fact when he got his teammates going thats the games they won in the series...nevermind all that) Answer me that Harlem. Now. Come at me bro.

How do you know Lebron quit?..you don't have any proof of that..

You're insulting the Boston Celtics by saying Lebron quit..

While Kobe vs. Phoenix was worse, I'm not even comparing them, like I said in my last post..I'm comparing Lebron vs. Boston to Kobe vs. Boston and Detroit in the Finals..it was a great player being shut down by a great defense..

Why does it have to be Lebron quitting?..the fact that you're saying Lebron should be putting up even better numbers than he did vs. an elite Boston defense tells me that you think he's some kind of superhuman player..how can he not be the best player in the NBA if you're expecting more out of him?..

How can you say Kobe is better than Lebron when you're expecting Lebron to play significantly better than Kobe did in the Finals vs. Boston?..isn't that unfair?..



2006-2008. Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Chucky Atkins, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Kwame, Aaron McKie......

How come all I heard was Kobe DOES NOT MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER.

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE HEAR THAT LINE GUYS?

It wasn't that the team sucked fucking balls...Kobe doesn't know how to make his teammates better.

Yet Bron...it all falls at the feet of his TEAMMATES. NOT ONE OUNCE OF FUCKING BLAME YOU ARE PLACING ON BRON. BUT HIS TEAMMATES.

I don't know..as I said in the other thread, I don't believe in the "make your teammates better" argument..

BTW, again, I didn't absolve Lebron of blame for the last 2 games..he clearly didn't play as well as he could/should have, he was shut down by an elite defense, which happens..

He still had a good playoffs though, and he's still a playoff performer, which is my point..people are ignoring the fact that he's had plenty of great playoff performances in the past, and now they're saying he can't win because of 2 bad games..

The supporting cast is relevant because no player should have to shoulder the load like Lebron does..it would help if he had a legit #2 to take pressure and load off of him..

The fact that the Cavs had championship aspirations with Antawn Jamison as the #2 talent on the team speaks volumes on how great Lebron James is as a player..

Are you going to tell me that Lebron and the Cavs wouldn't have had it a lot easier with a legit #2 and a better built team?..

It was obvious after the series vs. Chicago that they weren't going to win a title without Lebron going crazy in every game..



So let me ask you now..

What happened with Kobe vs. Boston in the Finals 2 years ago?..How did that happen?..

What happened with Kobe vs. Detroit in 2004?..How did that happen?..

Serious question, what happened? what's the difference?..does this mean Kobe isn't a playoff performer?..Isn't that what you're doing by focusing on a few games of a player's career and ignoring the rest?..


Oh now you must be fucking joking...

God damn you must be trolling with this statement....

So you're telling me that Lebron wins this series if he has a better post game?..really?..

How did Kobe's post-up game help in the 2008 Finals?..


Sorry but I have to disgree... because obviously when you are the only player to handle the ball and to pass you will not have a legit #2 option.

So now my question for you..

Does Lebron handle the ball and make plays so much because of the system and because he wants to?..or does he do it so much because he's the only reliable player on the team?..does he do it because the coach is incompetent?..how can you really know?..

Lebron's usage % in the playoffs was 30%, Kobe's was 33%..Kobe actually had the ball significantly more than Lebron did for his team..this is despite having Gasol and Bynum in the post..

How are the Lakers having so much success with Kobe handling and controlling the ball significantly more than Lebron?..



Jamison has a lot of flaws in his game, but he is a legit scoring option.
When he arrived, did Lebron production dropped?
No he start dominating the ball even more.

Jamison's usage % only went down by 1% when he went from Washington to Cleveland..I'm actually surprised, I thought it would be more..that's actually too high IMO, Jamison shouldn't be seeing the ball that much..

For example, Jamison's usage % with the Cavs was higher than Pau Gasol's was this season, which is pretty ridiculous, considering that Pau is a top 5-7 player in the NBA IMO..

As my man mogro has said in other threads, Jamison is best suited to be a 6th man, similar to the role Jamal Crawford has in Atlanta..your 2nd best player should never be a liability at certain times..Jamison can easily be exposed, which makes having him on the floor risky at times..this should NEVER happen with your 2nd best player, which is why he's better suited as a 6th man..

He's not efficient enough, he can't create plays for others, and he's one of the worst defensive players in NBA history..one of the major reasons Boston won the series was due to KG's manhandling of Jamison..


I believe Lebron kills his team-mates unless they are strictly role player (shooters, energizer...). See Boston, they had KG, Pierce, Allen and still they let some room for Rondo to develop. That would not have happened if Rondo was in Cleveland. Because he would barely have been allowed to bring the ball and he is anything but a shooter.

How do you know this?..

There's nothing that supports this..Mo Williams and Jamison had a higher usage % than a lot of key players in the NBA this year..if not higher, than at least similar to other #2 and #3 options on teams with ball-dominant superstar players..

Lebron has never had a legit #2 best player, so nobody knows what would happen..James is a very good off-ball player, so I don't believe this at all..



Last year, when Lebron lost to the Magic, there were signs there that Lebron's style of play doesn't make his teammates better.

What were these "signs"?..


Kobe knows how to involve his teammates and get the win. Kobe is racking up assists and just taking over when it's needed.

Kobe's usage % has been significantly higher than Lebron's during the playoffs..he's handling and controlling the ball more..Lebron has had more assists by a good margin..

I don't get it..

Are you sure you don't mean that both are getting their teammates involved, but Kobe's teammates are levels better?..


Give Kobe that 60 win team and he leads them to a championship.

Based on what?..


Remember, Pau was 0-12 in the Playoffs before joining Kobe. Nobody ever talked about him as being this great Power Forward.

Are you sure that had nothing to do with having Mike Miller and James Posey as his #2 guys on those teams?(IIRC)..


Bam, playing with Kobe, he's suddenly the best since Duncan and Dirk.

Are you sure it has nothing to do with playing in a better system with teammates that are a million times better than his teammates in Memphis?..Are you sure it isn't because he entered his prime as a player?..


Lamar Odom always shrunk from clutch moments, now he's extremely reliable in 4th quarters. In fact, Lamar is now probably one of the best 2 way power forwards in the NBA.

Lamar Odom was on the team with Kobe that blew a 3-1 series lead..he was on the same Lakers in 2007 when Kobe asked for a trade and threw everybody under the bus..

I know you're trolling, but that doesn't even make any sense..come harder with that last point..

[Donkeybong]

holy shit. how long did that take you

[milkshakeballa]

Lebron's usage % in the playoffs was 30%, Kobe's was 33%..Kobe actually had the ball significantly more than Lebron did for his team..this is despite having Gasol and Bynum in the post..



Well no shit shirlock.

LeBron FUCKIGN QUIT.

[midnightpulp]

Well no shit shirlock.

LeBron FUCKIGN QUIT.

Harlem owned you.

Try a counter argument to his points. You're a good poster and seem to be somewhat objective, so I'm interested in your reply, especially to this point:

So let me ask you now..

What happened with Kobe vs. Boston in the Finals 2 years ago?..How did that happen?..

What happened with Kobe vs. Detroit in 2004?..How did that happen?..

Serious question, what happened? what's the difference?..does this mean Kobe isn't a playoff performer?..Isn't that what you're doing by focusing on a few games of a player's career and ignoring the rest?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Come at me brah, come at me..

[MaNu4Tres]

Come at me brah, come at me..

Now Now Harlem ..

What have we said about feeding the Laker trolls?

We are better than that...

Although you are owning him..typical Spurs fans having more basketball knowledge than the bandwagon Laker masses.

Doesn't surprise me.

[milkshakeballa]

Harlem owned you.

Try a counter argument to his points. You're a good poster and seem to be somewhat objective, so I'm interested in your reply, especially to this point:

So let me ask you now..

What happened with Kobe vs. Boston in the Finals 2 years ago?..How did that happen?..

What happened with Kobe vs. Detroit in 2004?..How did that happen?..

Serious question, what happened? what's the difference?..does this mean Kobe isn't a playoff performer?..Isn't that what you're doing by focusing on a few games of a player's career and ignoring the rest?..

Nothing happened with Kobe against Boston. The better team won. Boston won 67 games during the regular season. Kobe had a very solid series. The Lakers lost because no Bynum and LO could not hit a jump shot. I think Kobe could have played better. He really struggled with Pierce. But it is what it is. He came back a BETTER player next year and would not be stopped by ANYONE. ANYONE. NO MATTER WHAT.

Thats the fucking difference right there Harlem and haters. Did LeBron come back a better player this year after falling short against the Magic? Did he improve any aspects of his game? Did he incororate a post game to take FULL ADVANTAGE of his size? FU

I don't understand how you are comparing Kobe taking the Lakers team and losing in the FINALS to a 67 win team as opposed to Bron being the HEAVY favorite losing in the 2nd round. There is ZERO comparison.

For me...I lost all trust in Kobe after the 2004 series. He played selfish. No denying it. He wanted the finals MVP along with a couple other reasons (Malone's knee, Shaq not in great shape). He sucked against one of the best defensive teams ever. Do I think we win a title with him playing with balance, feeding Shaq, and dominating games without scoring? Hard to say. With Malone's knee and Shaq was not in great shape during those finals..I still think Detroit wins.

Over the past few years though Kobe has proven to everybody that he is all about winning.

I honestly believe Kobe used to think him shooting everytime down the court is the teams best chance of winning. I think he knew how dominant Shaq was and rode that..but when Shaq starting to show up and stay out of shape..waiting all summer then having surgery during the year...that just pissed Kobe off. And I DO NOT blame Kobe for this. I honestly believe if Shaq worked his ass off, was competitive and was always in shape...the duo would have won 2 or 3 more rings together.

I have been one of Kobe's harshest critics on here in the past. Look at some of my post during the Thunder series. I honestly thought with his injuries he was DONE for the rest of the year. But god damn Harlem...the guy keeps proving EVERYBODY wrong. How can you not respect this guys drive to be the best? We both know the Colorado bullshit means nothing.

I am not saying Bron can't win in the playoffs. The guy is a solid player with FREAKISH PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES. At some point...chances are the guy will win a championship. But the guy has been in the league for 7 fucking years. YOU DO NOT WIN 120+ games in 2 years and have a BAD supporting cast. NO SINGLE PLAYER CAN DO IT. And by A LOT OF ACCOUNTS...Lebron is responsible for the players he has around him. He has the whole fucking city in his hand and he fucking QUIT on them.
And I am fully aware the playoffs are a different animal than the regular season.

He cares more about his image, his legacy, "HIS TEAM", his business ventures, his money, HIMSELF, all more than about winning a fucking ring.

EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE IN HIS CAREER UP TO THIS POINT PROVES THIS.

The "summer of 2010" seemed to have RUIN the Cavs chances this year. This guy cares more about the attention he is going to get this summer than a fucking ring he could have won.

He fucking seemed relieved for this season to be over. Can you possibly disagree with this?

His team this...His team that in his pree confernece..."we are going to execute a gameplan"

AND HE HASN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT ALL YEAR?!?!?

REALLY??!?!?!

Do you disagree?


You constantly BITCH about Kobe. Bitch about the person he is (like you even fucking know him). Bitch about how he plays. Bitch about everything.

And you praise LeBron. NON-STOP. You have already fucking CROWNED THIS KID. Kobe isn't even in his league. :rolleyes

Until LeBron actually lives and dies by winning rings...he should NEVER be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe again.

I mean...did he even seem fuckign bothered in his press conference? Did he? I AM ASKING YOU THIS. ANSWER.


And look at Kobe after every playoff series he has lost.

Thats the fucking difference right now.

One's life is fucking CONSUMED with rings and the other is CONSUMED with money.

Like another poster stated on here


Take Bron's game and work ethic and put it in Kobe's body and you have your regular NBA all-star

Take Kobe's game and work ethic and put it in Bron's body and you have the best player that HAS ever or WILL ever play ball

[milkshakeballa]

And I realize I was all over the ufcking place in the post...but the point stands.

[milkshakeballa]

And yeh...Harlem...


fucking come at me bro

[Mavs_man_41]

of course we'll never see a kobe vs lebron finals, next year it will be a kobe vs lebron WESTERN CONFERENCE finals when we d-boogie on that ass

[#2!]

yep. 4 quick games.

You guys are really taking losing in the first round hard, huh?