What would of happened if we never got dick Jefferson in the first place?

[davi78239]

Ever think about what this past season would of been like instead? Who we would of gotten instead or what moves would of been made. Also, we'd probably have more money to work with this summer to for sure go after a decent role player.

[Chieflion]

Spurs Fans in the alternate universe where we never got Richard Jefferson: Fuck Pop and the front office for not trading to improve the team. There is a guy called Richard Jefferson and he is really good with the Bucks. Why didn't we trade for him?

[NFGIII]

If only we could have hindsight prior to making decisions in lfe. We would probably have more money and if Hairston and Ian got more PT then maybe be in a better position going into next year.

Speaking of hindsight and drafting players then the Spurs could have had the following or combos there of:

1997 - Who the hell did the Spurs draft that year? :D

1998 - Felipe Lopez at 24 then traded away - available Al Harrington / Nazr

1999 - keep this one - it's Manu and we didn't have a 1st round pick

2000 - Cheis Carrawell at 41 - available Michael Redd !!!!

2001 - keep this one - it's TP

2002 - John Salmons but traded it away - available Carlos Boozer/ Roger Mason! / Matt Barnes/ Rasul Butler and the Spurs drafted Scola at 55

2003 - Drafted Barbosa and then traded it to the Suns - available Josh Howard (next pick to Mavs) or the following Kapono / Walton / Steve Blake / Bogans! / Bonner! / Mo Williams / Kyle Korver

2004 - Beno at 26 - available Varejao (talk about the proto type Spur - he would have been great on the team) / Chris Duhon

2005 - Ian - available David Lee / Brandon Bass / CJ Miles / Ronny Turiaf / Monta Ellis / Ryan Gomes / Gortat / Amir Johnson (Spurs were high on this kid at the time)

2006 - no 1st round pick and drafted Damir Markota art 59

2007 - Splitter - keep it - Marcus Williams at 33 - available Glen Davis / Marc Gasol and the Spurs drafted Giorgos Printezis at 58

2008 - George HIll at 26 and drafted Goran Dragic ar 45 for the Suns and got the 37th in 2008 which was Blair and drafted James Gist at 57

2009 - traded 1st pick and drafted Blair at 37 Jack McClinton at 51 and Nando De Colo at 53

The list isn't a complete one. Far from it but I picked some of the highlights. And I don't remember all the traded away #1s and what came back to the Spurs in return. One of the #1s was for Kurt Thomas'09) IIRC which didn't turn out the way many thought it would at the time. But I do remember that the Barbosa trade did lead to getting Nazr ehich ended with a ring in the '05 season so that one turned out very good. And just looking at the list alot of talent slipped through. But that should be said for all teams.

Imagine having Redd in 2000, Varejao in '04. David Lee in '05. Or just a couple of them since they might not have fit into the Spurs or the Spurs would have to move existing players to bring them in.

That would be an interesting layout: If the Spurs could go back and redo all trades and draft picks what kind of team would they have assembled?

[Danny.Zhu]

The aim of that trade was to improve the SF position and I don't think there were many other options available at that time, because
1. I don't think Carter or Artest could fit in here as well.
2. There weren't that many re-buidling teams at that time, to which Spurs expiring contracts are attractive.

[BronxCowboy]

Jefferson actually hasn't been bad on offense. His drop in scoring is about what you would expect when someone goes from being a first option to being a fourth or fifth option. The defense hasn't quite been what I hoped, but it's been a while since he played the kind of defense that he did with Kidd and Martin. I think the Spurs got about what they should have expected from a new SF on the team. The only knock is that he is grotesquely overpaid.

[dastrey]

Jefferson actually hasn't been bad on offense. His drop in scoring is about what you would expect when someone goes from being a first option to being a fourth or fifth option. The defense hasn't quite been what I hoped, but it's been a while since he played the kind of defense that he did with Kidd and Martin. I think the Spurs got about what they should have expected from a new SF on the team. The only knock is that he is grotesquely overpaid.

Are you serious? The Spurs were expecting the production of an average starting small forward, at the least. They weren't expecting a slight upgrade from Michael Finley. Face it, Michael Finley would have given the Spurs more against the Suns than Jefferson did.

[TDomination]

Spurs Fans in the alternate universe where we never got Richard Jefferson: Fuck Pop and the front office for not trading to improve the team. There is a guy called Richard Jefferson and he is really good with the Bucks. Why didn't we trade for him?

This

[BronxCowboy]

Face it, Michael Finley would have given the Spurs more against the Suns than Jefferson did.

Apparently you haven't been following the playoffs. Hopefully Finley gets a chance to do something against Orlando, but he hasn't contributed so far for Boston. Maybe you're forgetting that RJ put up 9.8 points and 6.8 rebounds per game against the Suns? RJ is not LeBron, Carmelo, or KD but he is an above average starting small forward. I don't know what you expect from a guy who is your teams fourth or fifth option, but you should look around at the fourth and fifth options on other teams to see if it's realistic.

[MaNu4Tres]

You simply can't turn down a Kurt Thomas/Oberto for Richard Jefferson deal.

Spurs were dealing with dead money and the money Jefferson was paid this year would have been paid to Kurt Thomas, Oberto and Bowen's retired salary regardless.

It's not like Spurs used up their cap space to sign Jefferson.

Spurs had already used up all their cap money. It was dead money and for 2 years that remained on his deal, it wasn't as bad as his salary suggests.

People need to start realizing this.

[dastrey]

Apparently you haven't been following the playoffs. Hopefully Finley gets a chance to do something against Orlando, but he hasn't contributed so far for Boston. Maybe you're forgetting that RJ put up 9.8 points and 6.8 rebounds per game against the Suns? RJ is not LeBron, Carmelo, or KD but he is an above average starting small forward. I don't know what you expect from a guy who is your teams fourth or fifth option, but you should look around at the fourth and fifth options on other teams to see if it's realistic.

Jefferson was the weak link in the Spurs starting line-up against the Suns. They essentially left him wide open and RJ couldn't make them pay. The Spurs were playing 4 on 5 on offense. RJ's lack of ability to hit an open J or get to the rim essentially took away George Hill's open looks. The Suns were allowed to play a weak-side zone which made it easy to guard Jefferson and Hill with one player. There was absolutely no spacing with RJ standing 3 feet inside the 3 pt line. Finley's shooting ability alone would have forced the Suns to close out on him, resulting in more room for George Hill to operate. I'm not saying Finley is a great player. I'm saying that he would have been more affective against the Suns defense.

[BronxCowboy]

I'm not saying Finley is a great player. I'm saying that he would have been more affective against the Suns defense.

For the record, the last time the Spurs and the Suns met in the playoffs (2008), Finley averaged 7.0 ppg on .433 shooting. Finley has gotten older since then, and the Suns have gotten better on defense. But don't let me throw a wet blanket on your Jefferson hate.

[Libri]

If only we could have hindsight prior to making decisions in lfe. We would probably have more money and if Hairston and Ian got more PT then maybe be in a better position going into next year.

Speaking of hindsight and drafting players then the Spurs could have had the following or combos there of:

1997 - Who the hell did the Spurs draft that year? :D

1998 - Felipe Lopez at 24 then traded away - available Al Harrington / Nazr

1999 - keep this one - it's Manu and we didn't have a 1st round pick

2000 - Cheis Carrawell at 41 - available Michael Redd !!!!

2001 - keep this one - it's TP

2002 - John Salmons but traded it away - available Carlos Boozer/ Roger Mason! / Matt Barnes/ Rasul Butler and the Spurs drafted Scola at 55

2003 - Drafted Barbosa and then traded it to the Suns - available Josh Howard (next pick to Mavs) or the following Kapono / Walton / Steve Blake / Bogans! / Bonner! / Mo Williams / Kyle Korver

2004 - Beno at 26 - available Varejao (talk about the proto type Spur - he would have been great on the team) / Chris Duhon

2005 - Ian - available David Lee / Brandon Bass / CJ Miles / Ronny Turiaf / Monta Ellis / Ryan Gomes / Gortat / Amir Johnson (Spurs were high on this kid at the time)

2006 - no 1st round pick and drafted Damir Markota art 59

2007 - Splitter - keep it - Marcus Williams at 33 - available Glen Davis / Marc Gasol and the Spurs drafted Giorgos Printezis at 58

2008 - George HIll at 26 and drafted Goran Dragic ar 45 for the Suns and got the 37th in 2008 which was Blair and drafted James Gist at 57

2009 - traded 1st pick and drafted Blair at 37 Jack McClinton at 51 and Nando De Colo at 53

The list isn't a complete one. Far from it but I picked some of the highlights. And I don't remember all the traded away #1s and what came back to the Spurs in return. One of the #1s was for Kurt Thomas'09) IIRC which didn't turn out the way many thought it would at the time. But I do remember that the Barbosa trade did lead to getting Nazr ehich ended with a ring in the '05 season so that one turned out very good. And just looking at the list alot of talent slipped through. But that should be said for all teams.

Imagine having Redd in 2000, Varejao in '04. David Lee in '05. Or just a couple of them since they might not have fit into the Spurs or the Spurs would have to move existing players to bring them in.

That would be an interesting layout: If the Spurs could go back and redo all trades and draft picks what kind of team would they have assembled?

http://www.friedpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/time-machine.jpg

[SenorSpur]

Jefferson was the weak link in the Spurs starting line-up against the Suns. They essentially left him wide open and RJ couldn't make them pay. The Spurs were playing 4 on 5 on offense. RJ's lack of ability to hit an open J or get to the rim essentially took away George Hill's open looks. The Suns were allowed to play a weak-side zone which made it easy to guard Jefferson and Hill with one player. There was absolutely no spacing with RJ standing 3 feet inside the 3 pt line. Finley's shooting ability alone would have forced the Suns to close out on him, resulting in more room for George Hill to operate. I'm not saying Finley is a great player. I'm saying that he would have been more affective against the Suns defense.

As much as I hate to agree, because I couldn't stand the sight of Finley on the Spurs, I have to admit that your point is a good one. I will offer this caveat. Finley certainly would've taken the open 3 shots that RJ did not. Whether or not they went down for him would've depended on whether he was on a roll or in one of his infamous shooting slumps. We all know Fin was a streaky, streaky shooter, but did manage to hit some key shots for the Spurs during his tenure.

[dastrey]

For the record, the last time the Spurs and the Suns met in the playoffs (2008), Finley averaged 7.0 ppg on .433 shooting. Finley has gotten older since then, and the Suns have gotten better on defense. But don't let me throw a wet blanket on your Jefferson hate.

This is the whole point. Jefferson's numbers aren't much better than a 2008 Finley. Jefferson was wide open the entire series and managed to score 2.8 more points, while playing more minutes and shooting a lower percentage. RJ is NOT an average starting small forward. That is not hate, it is the truth. A 37 year old Grant Hill would have relegated Jefferson to the bench.

[mathbzh]

2000 - Cheis Carrawell at 41 - available Michael Redd !!!!



This is why I don't like revisiting history.

Let say we draft Redd... so we don't need Ginobili and trade him? Or we can't afford to give him a 10M$ contract? Or we just can't re-sign him or Parker and have to deal with Beno as starting PG? Too many questions...

[angelbelow]

I dont fault the FO for going after RJ. I think at the time it was a great move and it could still work out.

[NFGIII]

This is why I don't like revisiting history.

Let say we draft Redd... so we don't need Ginobili and trade him? Or we can't afford to give him a 10M$ contract? Or we just can't re-sign him or Parker and have to deal with Beno as starting PG? Too many questions...

Agreed and it usually brings up more questions than answers but can be fun if you don't take it too seriously. Who knows what the FO would have done with the Redd/Manu situation. Do they trade Redd or even Manu since they believe that they are clones and therefore redundent? If so who gets traded and for what? blah...blah...blah... endless scenarios.

[eyeh8u]

Sjax

[dbestpro]

Hairston is no savior and will not even be on the team next year. Hairston's offense makes RJ look like Wade. With or without RJ the Spurs do no better because Pop will still go small too often.

[silverblk mystix]

finley would have stayed and the spurs would have not made the playoffs

[m33p0]

Spurs Fans in the alternate universe where we never got Richard Jefferson: Fuck Pop and the front office for not trading to improve the team. There is a guy called Richard Jefferson and he is really good with the Bucks. Why didn't we trade for him?

hard to prove but this is the truff here.

[mosdef17]

:lobt2: haha joke, couldn't help it...

[4>0rings]

Spurs Fans in the alternate universe where we never got Richard Jefferson: Fuck Pop and the front office for not trading to improve the team. There is a guy called Richard Jefferson and he is really good with the Bucks. Why didn't we trade for him?
BS, there's nothing but cheap skates on this board. Once they saw the 15 mil for 2 years, it would be another HELL NO response.

[lurker23]

BS, there's nothing but cheap skates on this board. Once they saw the 15 mil for 2 years, it would be another HELL NO response.

Really? You should probably take a look at this thread.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124681

[sabar]

BS, there's nothing but cheap skates on this board. Once they saw the 15 mil for 2 years, it would be another HELL NO response.

:lmao

There's a whole faction of fans that says each year that we should gut the roster and bring in a bunch of all-stars that would never want to be here.

[sabar]

If only we could have hindsight prior to making decisions in lfe. We would probably have more money and if Hairston and Ian got more PT then maybe be in a better position going into next year.

Speaking of hindsight and drafting players then the Spurs could have had the following or combos there of:

1997 - Who the hell did the Spurs draft that year? :D

1998 - Felipe Lopez at 24 then traded away - available Al Harrington / Nazr

1999 - keep this one - it's Manu and we didn't have a 1st round pick

2000 - Cheis Carrawell at 41 - available Michael Redd !!!!

2001 - keep this one - it's TP

2002 - John Salmons but traded it away - available Carlos Boozer/ Roger Mason! / Matt Barnes/ Rasul Butler and the Spurs drafted Scola at 55

2003 - Drafted Barbosa and then traded it to the Suns - available Josh Howard (next pick to Mavs) or the following Kapono / Walton / Steve Blake / Bogans! / Bonner! / Mo Williams / Kyle Korver

2004 - Beno at 26 - available Varejao (talk about the proto type Spur - he would have been great on the team) / Chris Duhon

2005 - Ian - available David Lee / Brandon Bass / CJ Miles / Ronny Turiaf / Monta Ellis / Ryan Gomes / Gortat / Amir Johnson (Spurs were high on this kid at the time)

2006 - no 1st round pick and drafted Damir Markota art 59

2007 - Splitter - keep it - Marcus Williams at 33 - available Glen Davis / Marc Gasol and the Spurs drafted Giorgos Printezis at 58

2008 - George HIll at 26 and drafted Goran Dragic ar 45 for the Suns and got the 37th in 2008 which was Blair and drafted James Gist at 57

2009 - traded 1st pick and drafted Blair at 37 Jack McClinton at 51 and Nando De Colo at 53

The list isn't a complete one. Far from it but I picked some of the highlights. And I don't remember all the traded away #1s and what came back to the Spurs in return. One of the #1s was for Kurt Thomas'09) IIRC which didn't turn out the way many thought it would at the time. But I do remember that the Barbosa trade did lead to getting Nazr ehich ended with a ring in the '05 season so that one turned out very good. And just looking at the list alot of talent slipped through. But that should be said for all teams.

Imagine having Redd in 2000, Varejao in '04. David Lee in '05. Or just a couple of them since they might not have fit into the Spurs or the Spurs would have to move existing players to bring them in.

That would be an interesting layout: If the Spurs could go back and redo all trades and draft picks what kind of team would they have assembled?

One problem. Each team can say the same thing. Hence those players would never be available at those picks anyways. This whole premise relies on only the Spurs knowing who is going to be good in the draft.

[Supreme_Being]

One problem. Each team can say the same thing. Hence those players would never be available at those picks anyways. This whole premise relies on only the Spurs knowing who is going to be good in the draft.

Finally someone injected sense into this thread. Good day to you sir!

[bdictjames]

I would be glad if we still got Bowen, Thomas and Oberto. One more run with our old guys. Who knows, we'd be where the Celtics are at right now.

[Supreme_Being]

Thomas and Oberto are meh, but Bowen... damn.